₦airaland Forum

CoolUsername:
Satan. Whom God put in the same garden as Adam and Eve, knowing what would happen.

You're terribly funny. Satan simply entered the serpent. The serpent was not satan.

Recently a radio preacher expressed this belief: "I don't expect to be here when the beast is enforcing his mark upon the people. I expect to go up in the rapture and be in heaven during the great tribulation time." But these verses declare that some of those who come up in the "first resurrection," when Christ comes the second time, have already refused to worship the Antichrist or receive his mark! Thus, the Antichrist must have already been on the stage of action carrying on his oppressive work before the "first resurrection" and well before the second coming of Jesus.

Without attempting to establish the identity of Antichrist at this point, let us notice how this teaching - that the Antichrist will come in the future - originated. At the time of the Reformation, most of the reformers understood the prophecy of the Antichrist to refer to the great apostate system of Romanism that developed during the Middle Ages. Of course, Rome did not appreciate this interpretation.

While Paul lived, he combated the emerging spirit of the Antichrist. By the sixth century A.D., Antichrist had matured. The crowning act in the great drama of deception, however, occurs just before the return of Christ: "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."' Verse 8. This clearly states that Antichrist will be destroyed when Christ comes. He does not arrive after the Second Advent.

And here's the crowning clarification in this whole thing. Revelation 20:4 assures us that some of those who are raised in the first resurrection will be those who refused to worship the beast and receive his mark! How completely this demolishes the futuristic school of prophetic interpretation is evident, for they claim that the emergence of the Antichrist and the imposition of his mark are to be looked for after the first resurrection and what they call the secret rapture.

for that day [of our gathering together unto Him] shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin [Antichrist] be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" (vs. 1-4). The words of Paul are so plain that it is difficult to comment on them. How can they be plainer? Christ's coming will not take place "except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed." Show these words to any child who has learned to read; show them to anyone not prejudiced by "private" interpretations, and he will say, "These verses say that the man of sin (Antichrist) is going to be revealed before Jesus comes."

Paul is not referring to some superman suddenly to appear 2,000 years after his epistles. He wrote, "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work" (v. 7).

A misinterpretation that confuses something Christ has done, and applies it to the devil instead, is certainly a tragic occurrence. And yet this is the only way one can arrive at a seven-year tribulation period. How sad!

When Does the Antichrist Appear?

Now we are brought to focus on the most glaring inconsistency of the rapture theory, and that is that the Antichrist will not appear until after the saints are caught away - seven years before the end of the world. Paul settles the entire matter for us in the first few verses of 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: ...

They agree that the sixty-nine weeks of Daniel 9:25 refer to the period before Christ's first advent, but then they insert a 2,000-year gap before the seventieth week is fulfilled. They allot 69 weeks plus 2,000 years plus one week, or a total of 2,490 years. By this devious manipulation of God's Word, the rapturists believe they have extended the Jewish probation; and based upon this, they teach that all the fleshly Jews will be saved in a great second chance after the "secret rapture" takes place.

The tragedy of the rapture theory is that it takes these beautiful verses of Daniel 9:24-27 that predict the coming of Jesus, His baptism and crucifixion, and apply them to Antichrist. They do this by stating that it is Antichrist that causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease after three and one-half years. But Daniel states that it is Jesus who caused the sacrificial system of the Jews to cease when He died on the cross.

Note: the New Testament teaches the acceptance of spiritual Israel, and the rejection of physical Israel and the children of the flesh.

Romans 2:28, 29 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter."

Acts 13:46 "It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles."

The rapturists get their seven years' tribulation by lifting that seventieth week of Daniel's prophecy completely out of its context and shoving it far into the future. They claim it will be fulfilled after Christ comes to snatch away the righteous secretly. Incredible? Absolutely! But they must grasp desperately for some text to support their seven years.

Matthew 21:19 "And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away." (The fig tree was a symbol of the Jewish nation.)

Matthew 23:38 "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."

Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Galatians 3:29 "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 9:6-8 "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children; but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are ... the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

In the spring of A.D. 31 He was crucified. The veil of the temple was rent (Matthew 27:51), signifying the end of sacrifices. By His death He caused them to cease. Another three and a half years would lead up to the end of the seventy weeks and the end of Jewish probation. During that three and a half years the disciples labored largely for the Jews. But in A.D. 34 the seventy weeks ended; Stephen was stoned and the gospel began to go to the Gentiles (Acts 8:4). The Jews had rejected the gospel message and were no longer God's people - just as Daniel had predicted. Henceforth they could be saved only as individuals, in exactly the same way as the Gentiles. As a nation, they had been rejected as the chosen people. Here is the way the Bible describes that rejection: Matthew21:43 "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you."

That would be 483 years from the decree date of 457 B.C. It takes no mathematician to figure the end of that prediction. It brings us to the year A.D. 27, the very year that Jesus was baptized by John and the Holy Spirit anointed Him for His ministry. Since "Messiah" means" Anointed One," this had to be the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy that the Messiah would appear in A.D 27.

Now mark this fact: seventy weeks were assigned to the Jewish probation, but Christ appeared as the Messiah after sixty-nine weeks. That leaves the seventieth week for Christ to minister before the Jews' probation ended. What was to happen in the seventieth week? Daniel 9:27 tells us, "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease." The midst of the week would be three and a half prophetic days (literal years) from His baptism. And according to the Bible, the ministry of Jesus lasted for three and a half years.

Please notice that God was going to allow Daniel's people seventy weeks to see what they would do with the Messiah when He appeared. The seventy weeks are prophetic time, and each day represents a literal year (Ezekiel 4:6). So the seventy weeks would be a literal period of 490 years, after which the Israelites would no longer be God's people. They would be rejected as a nation because of their rejection of the Messiah.

Don't miss the point in Daniel 9:25 that the prophecy of the seventy weeks was to begin with the decree to restore and build Jerusalem. That well-known date is 457 B.C., when Artaxerxes sent out the decree (Ezra 7:13). From that date, 457 B.C., the Jews would have exactly 490 years to finish filling up their cup of iniquity by rejecting the Messiah. That 490-year probation ended in A.D. 34, and the Jews ceased to be God's chosen people. Daniel 9:25 says that the Messiah would be anointed after sixty-nine of those prophetic weeks had passed by.

Since so much rapturist theology revolves around the seven-year period, one would assume that the Bible must speak frequently of such a time period. But not so. There is not one single scriptural reference that ties the seven years to the end of the world or the coming of Christ. Most rapturist literature mentions the seven-year tribulation period without offering any Bible proof or explanation. Millions have assumed that it must be so well documented that no proof is needed. In fact, the opposite is true. There just isn't any evidence to give.

Most Bible students are amazed to learn that the rapturists try to justify their seven years by lifting a prophecy of Daniel completely out of its context. In Daniel 9:24-27 God made a daring prophecy concerning the probation of the nation of Israel. He said to Daniel, "Seventy weeks ['weeks of years' RSV] are determined upon thy people ... to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins" (v. 24).

analice107,

I will open a thread open a thread where I will fully, by GOD's grace, explain to you who the beast is, and show you that he is the same person as that little horn, the man of sin.

You will also find out what the seventy weeks are.

CoolUsername:
The serpent said so.

Genesis 3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

The bible clearly states that their eyes were indeed opened. They also realized their unclothedness, indicating a loss of childlike innocence.

Genesis 3:7
And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Brother, their eyes were opened does not mean that they didn't know from GOD's stern warnings that eating that fruit is a sin.

Their eyes were opened, and they began to see inadequacy and shamefulness in their unclothedness. They were naked before, and not ashamed. But when their eyes were opened, they became ashamed of their unclothedness.

CoolUsername:
If he knew that they would sin, there was no need for a test because they were doomed to fail.

So what will make them sin if there is no avenue for them to sin?

CoolUsername:
Then that means God didn't know whether Adam would sin or not so he isn't all knowing. That's what a contradiction is.

He knew that they would sin. What contradiction are you talking about?

CoolUsername:
God should not need to test man's loyalty as he knows everything.

In fact, as long as the Devil isn't as powerful as God, there shouldn't be a struggle.

I'm laughing out loud now

GOD should not test man's loyalty because He knows everything? That doesn't add up. He did not create a robot. He created a being with freewill. Without testing man's loyalty, Satan could argue that man obeyed simply because there was no avenue for him to disobey.

What then do you think is going on in the world today? THE GREAT CONVERSY!

Satan challenged GOD. That is a short summary of the whole thing. However, he will be destroyed, together with sinners.

CoolUsername, please tell us how Adam and Eve had no sense of right or wrong.

CoolUsername:
Say, I know everything that has ever and would ever happen, I know that if I create Adam and Eve the serpent would lead them to sin by eating a forbidden fruit. So what do I do? I create them anyway, put the servant in the same garden that I put them along with the tree that bears the forbidden fruit. I then instruct not to eat from it but neglect to give Adam and Eve a sense of right and wrong. I then proceed to punish them and ask their descendants to come.

I am, therefore:
1. really wicked, or
2. really stupid.

I didn't give man a chance to succeed the moment I put him in that garden.

You really have a distorted idea of GOD and the Bible.

This whole thing is a struggle between GOD and Satan. GOD cast Satan out for disobedience. GOD created man. If GOD had not put that tree there to test their loyalty, Satan would have said that man obeys GOD because there's nothing to make him sin. GOD put the tree there to test man's loyalty to Himself.

Smallville10:
Doctoralien, i must applaud d way u answered all those questions, just d way i was expectin... But these athiests never giveup even if u shame them

Thank you bro.

CoolUsername:
So why is he punishing ask their ancestors for something that they had no control over.

How did man have no control over his actions?

analice107:
But there's the individual (The Beast) which will rule the One World Government for 7years after Rapture nah.

Daniel, Apostle Paul spoke about him in Thessalonians, Revelations also talked about Him.

My dear, after the rapture, not a single living thing will be on earth. The righteous will go with Christ to Heaven, while the wicked will be destroyed by the brightness of Christ's appearing.(2 Thess. 2:8 ). That day, the slain of the Lord shall be many.(Isa 66:16). The notion that some would be alive after rapture does not have any biblical basis.

Daniel, Paul and John all wrote about the Papacy when they wrote about the little horn, the Man of sin and the beast respectively.

After the rapture, the millenium of Christ's reign will begin. At the same time, Satan will be trapped in the bottomless pit.

This is the type of gospel men are preaching today that a sinner will not perish even if he continues in his sin.

If there was no problem with man continuing in sin, when then did Jesus come to die?

"He that, being often reproved, hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy." Prov. 29:1.

"Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Luke 13:3.

"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption." 2 Pet. 2:12.

Tell the sinner to repent or else he will be destroyed!

Papist,

I'm not surprised that you deny that the official title of the pope is "VICARIVS FILII DEI." That's the least you can do. But evidence abound of that fact.

You may want to read Catholic F. Lucii Ferraris's Latin encyclopedia, Prompta Bibliotheca canonica juridica moralis theologica, where he calls the people "VICARIVS FILII DEI"

Our Sunday Visitor, a Jesuit publication, published two admissions that "VICARIVS FILII DEI" is in fact a title for the pope-- on Nov. 15, 1914 and April 18, 1915. The Nov. 15, 1914 issue says "The title of the Pope is VICARIUS FILII DEI. This is inscribed on his mitre..."

Henry Grattan Guiness, in Babylon and the Beast, said this: "An English officer of a high rank, who in 1799 by a special favor, was given the special opportunity, while in Rome, to get a close look at the pope's jewels and precious things, discovered thereby, that the papal tiara bore this inscription: "Vicarivs Filii Dei."

Read wider sir.

Pr0blem,

If nobody will perish/be destroyed, what do you have to say about these?

"But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off." Psa. 37:38

"Woe to them, for they have strayed from me! Destruction is theirs, for they have rebelled against Me..." Hosea 7:13

"These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power." 2 Thess. 1:9.

pr0blem:
What is the purpose of going to Hell sir? If there is going to be a Hell, it has to be in God, for God is the omnipresent ALL that is in ALL. Where does Hell want to exist if God has occupied all the space. God doesn't need hell to do his job.

If all things are in God, and are made up of God, then sending some to Hell is like saying you cut off your finger and threw it in the trash. God has a WHOLE BODY.

There's no such thing as hell. It's not a place anyone goes to. If one person goes, all people go. If one person doesn't go, all people do not go. That's the order of Christ; God.

So according to you, no one will perish? Does these verses agree?

"For GOD so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish..." John 3:16

"But the heavens and the earth, which are now by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." 2 Pet. 3:7.

raphieMontella:
How many blind men did jesus heal on the road to jericho?
Matthew 20:29 two
Mark10:46-47 one

The four gospels are complementary. One does not record everything that happened. We read the four of them to get a more complete picture of Jesus' life.

Matthew gives an account of Jesus healing two men, without naming them. Mark reports that same incidence, and evidently knew one of the men who were healed, and so gave his name "...blind Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus..." (Mark 10:46).

Both accounts are correct as they give additional information. Matthew says nothing about them begging, but Mark does.

The fact that these accounts differ a little is proof that these writers did not copy one another, as hypocrites and infidels and skeptics like you would say had the accounts been exactly the same.

pr0blem:
God will not condemn what he can fix.

"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him" - John 3:17

"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me" - John 6:38

“You are judging carnally; I am judging no one.” - John 8:15

"As for anyone who hears My words and does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world." - John 12:47

"Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust." - John 5:45

The one who condemns is the one who cannot do the fixing, Moses and his Law. The one who doesn't condemn, is God, he makes sure to fix all them that needs fixing.

Will anybody go to hell? Yes or No?

raphieMontella:
Is god an author of confusion?
1 corinthians 14:33 No
Genesis 11:7-9 Yes

1 Cor. 14:33 says GOD is not an author of confusion but of peace as in all churches of the saints. This verse seals the harmony of the Bible. GOD does not breed confusion around Himself, nor does confusion exist where He is. His message is coherent, and so are His plans. So, no confusion should be in His Church.

However, GOD can cause confusion in the camp of enemies and those who gather against Him to scatter them. The men at Babel gathered themselves against GOD, to rebel. GOD scattered them by confusing their languages. They could no longer continue with their rebellion.

In 2 Chron. 20:22-23, GOD also caused confusion in the camp of the armies who came to attack Jehoshaphat. Here again, GOD sends confusion into the camp of the enemies to scatter their plans.

raphieMontella:
when was jesus crucified?
The third hour(9am) mark 15:25
Or the sixth hour(12pm)john 19:14-16?.

Jesus Christ was crucified around 9 am. Mark reckoned the time according to the Jewish system of counting time, where the day began at sunrise(6 am). The 3rd hour from then would be 9 am.

The Gospel of John was written near the close of the century, and mostly to Gentile believers. And so in that text, it seems John used the Roman system of recording time where the day began at midnight (12 am), although in other places, he seems to reckon time from sunrise (see Jn. 4.6, 52; 11:9). The 6th hour from 12 am then would be 6 am.

In Jn. 19:14, the trial was still going on(6 am). The Jews had already condemned Jesus at night but Pilate needed to confirm the verdict during the day for it to stand. It continued until Jesus was crucified by 9 am.

raphieMontella:
Does yahweh ever get tired?
Exodus 31:17 yes
isaiah 40:28 no.

LOL. I was expecting this. GOD rested after creating everything not because He was tired or exhausted. GOD cannot be tired. The verb "shabath" means literally "to cease" from labour or activity. GOD's rest was a cessation from previous occupation.

AnonyNymous:
Genesis 6:5 New International Version: The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.
***
Now this is the reason. It says your lord 'saw his great the wickedness . . . ' . Which means it was after seeing it, that he started to have feelings of regret. Implying that he did not know man would turn out that way. That points towards the second option, i.e he is NOT omniscient.

I'm happy you quoted that verse. Now, this is what man has become and compare it with what GOD planned for man. Is there no cause for regret?

GOD knew that once man sinned, evil will beget evil and it will continue. How is GOD no omniscient?