₦airaland Forum

raphieMontella:
Doctoralien,
Which was jesus last words on the cross? Luke 23:46? Or john 19:30?.

It is pertinent to note that neither Luke nor John explicitly says that what they reported was Jesus last words. The seven words of Jesus are compiled not from one gospel but the four of them. However, I can say that the last words of Jesus were "Father into your hand I commend my spirit" because that is a prayer. He began His ministry with prayer and ended it with prayer. Also, Luke 23:46 says Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and then commended His spirit into His Father's hand. We don't know what he said in that cry. It might be "it is finished" but surely it doesn't matter much in our race towards Heaven.

AnonyNymous:
Strawman argument. That is not the question at hand. Answer my question. Did god know, or not that they would sin?

-If he knew then he would not regret

-If he didn't know then he isn't omniscient.

Before we continue, go back and read that passage again that says GOD regretted making man. There was a reason given there why He regretted making man. Write it here.

AnonyNymous:
In other words, you're saying god did not know whether man would obey or disobey? Then he is not omniscient.

What would you have GOD do if He knew man was going to sin?

pr0blem:
Na wa o. You're still about "those who will be lost". LOOL

Where in scriptures did it say ANY WILL BE LOST?

And if any will be lost, we blame the One who was assigned to watch over them.

The idea that a thing can be "Lost" suggests they "Belong" to someone, and they are "Watched" by that said one.

So, if there's any such case of a "LOST", then the Integrity of their owner should be questioned.

So, according to you, nobody will go to hell or perish?

AnonyNymous:
When you are omniscient, you cannot regret because you already know when where and how everything will happen. Just like I explained with the case of the robber. If you deny this despite the clear example I gave then I will have to call go intellectual honesty into question.

Robbers don't regret their actions because they knew they'd be caught: they regret their actions because they are caught. They would be boasting and rejoicing about the same act if they are not caught.

GOD created man with a choice to obey Him or disobey Him. Obedience to GOD will ensure happiness and bliss while disobedience will introduce sin and death. GOD wished man would obey Him. He made provision, anyway, should man choose to disobey. He loves man so much He doesn't want him to perish.

Still the ball is in man's court: to choose whether to perish or not.

Pr0blem,

Those who will be lost, will it be that they couldn't have done anything about it?

AnonyNymous:
First of all, stop assuming I'm an atheist. It gets annoying. Because of this I specifically created a thread this morning to clarify it. Thank you. https://www.nairaland.com/3373615/musings-agnostic-deist

Next, you said god does not embark on a mission he knows would fail, right? But at the time of the flood, it was evident that man 'failed'. So why did god embark on that mission? Killing millions of people out of regret? Regret is an indicator of nor knowing. An omniscient being isn't capable of regret, yet, your bible explicitly states that god expressed that emotion.

The bolded statement: who said so?

The project man has not failed. If it did, GOD would have terminated it since. In fact, the project man has succeeded, because of Jesus Christ.

Read the Bible and you will understand.

MizyB:
Sorry to break your heart, seeing you want to believe this bogus theory by all means but God isn't responsible.


1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God and that the world around us is under the control of the evil one

I know you're not a man but still take that cookie for this awesome answer.

AnonyNymous:
But god does?

Refer to the three basic points I said y'all should note.

GOD, too, does not embark on a journey He knows would surely result in failure. Man could have obeyed GOD, and there would have been no sin today, and certainly no atheist like you. But it went wrong. Man disobeyed.

The good news is that the project called "man" has not failed, because GOD is not a failure. GOD has redeemed man from sin and death by giving up Jesus Christ. So, we can safely say GOD embarks only on journeys in which He would succeed.

Ranchhoddas:
Mago mago. Is God omniscient or not?

GOD is omniscient.

AnonyNymous:
Theres no fallacy there. Your analogy is a bit flawed. No no, you see, an armed robber is caught unaware. Yes, he knew that the he'd end up in jail IF he was caught. . . but, he didn't know he was going to be caught at that particular time. Tell me, if a robber is omniscient, and knows that if he goes to rob No 8, Kashimawo street on Friday night, he will be caught, then will he still go there to rob? The answer is NO! If he still foolishly decides to go ahead and rob that place, then when he is caught, he will have no regrets, because he knew the end result, and he still decided to do it!

Man does not embark on any journey he knows would result surely in failure. The robber goes to rob because he believes he will succeed. Sure, he knows that he could be caught, be he hopes he isn't. And so for each time robber carries his gun to rob, he believes he will succeed, even though it could go wrong.

Ranchhoddas:
An omniscient cannot hope for the best and expect the worst. Is God omniscient?

This statement is directly countered by the fact that GOD gave man a command. What can GOD do but hope that man obeys Him, in the best interest of man?

AnonyNymous:
Let's starts with this one.
He can't be caught unaware, right?
Which implies that he's not capable of regret.
Because regret happens when something you didn't expect, happens.
Then how come your god shows regret in the bible?

Genesis 6:6 New International Version
And the LORD regretted that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.

GOD regretted making man because of what he has turned to. The man whom He created for a holy communion with Himself has turned into a very terrible, sinful creature.

The fallacy you committed is thinking that regret = being caught unawares.

An armed robber who is caught regrets his actions, but it does not mean that he did not envisage success when he was about to embark on his actions.

Ranchhoddas:
So He did not know whether they'll actually sin or not?

GOD was expecting that moment when they would disobey Him. And we see that immediately they sinned, GOD promised a Seed to come. It shows that GOD was ready for that moment.

You know what they say "hope for the best, but expect (be ready for) the worst."

hopefulLandlord:
your posts hardly makes sense to me, maybe because I have a primitive brain

he created them with the "possibility" to sin, that doesn't in ANY way answer the question because an ordinary person also sees two possibilities, was that what Yahweh was seeing too?

the question is; DID HE KNOW ADAM AND EVE WOULD SIN?

a Yes or No

I'm not sure you read that post.

Or if you read that post and it doesn't make sense to you, then 1 Cor. 2:14 is fulfilled in you.

hopefulLandlord:
so god doesn't "know" the future? in the strictest sense of the word

See my post below your quote.

Y'all note these basic points:

1. GOD is someone who is not caught unawares.

2. GOD did not create Adam and Eve to sin. However He created them with a possibility to sin.

3. GOD does not force anybody to obey Him. You obey GOD out of love and respect, because you've found out that He deserves obedience as the Creator.

Ranchhoddas:
Did God know that Adam and Eve were going to sin. A yes or no would do.

GOD knew that there was a possibility that they would sin.

Ranchhoddas:
If you know what I'll do then I don't have freewill. It's logically impossible for foreknowledge and freewill to exist at once.

This statement is inherently wrong. There is sin in the world today and there is good too in the world because of freewill. Some people choose to do evil, while others choose to do good. You have a choice. You're not forced. That's freewill.

GOD gave Adam and Eve a command. GOD commanded them because He created them, and to test their loyalty to Him. If they heeded His voice, they would live on forever, but if they disobeyed, they would die. GOD did not force them to choose.

Any choice has a consequence. We are free to make choices but we are not free from the consequences of the choices we make.

Problem,

Those that will be lost, will it be that they couldn't have done anything about it?

The interaction between Jesus Christ and that impotent man represents GOD's relationship with sinners. Someone can choose to be lost. At that particular instance, the impotent man could have told Jesus "I don't want to be made whole", just as we hear some atheists today declare they don't want to go to Heaven.

GOD provided salvation for all in Jesus Christ, but John 3:16 says that you first have to believe. Believing in Jesus Christ is the first step towards salvation.

Pr0blem,

I have a question for you: those that will be lost, will it be that they couldn't have done anything about it?

Jesus saw an impotent man by the pool who had lain there for 38 solid years, yet Jesus asked him "do you want to be made whole?" Why do you think Jesus asked him such a question? Don't you know that the could've said "no"?

Think again.

"Atheists spend 90% of their time discussing religion and GOD. One must then ask: are they really atheists or are they theologians?" -DoctorAlien

"There is no difference between atheists and a primary 6 pupil who continues to reiterate that quantum physics is a delusion." -DoctorAlien

"Atheists exist because the Bible has to be true in Psa. 14:1. For it cannot be that fools will cease to exist." -DoctorAlien

analice107,

The spirit of the antichrist was already at work even during Paul"s days(2 Thess. 2:7). The Pope is the antichrist by every definition. He is the man of sin, the son of perdition(2 Thess. 2:2-3).

He opposes and exalts himself above all that is called GOD, or that is worshipped, and sits in the temple of GOD, showing himself that He is GOD.(v.4) The pope has on many occasions claimed to be GOD. He takes GOD's own name "Holy." Guess his name? "VICARIVS FILII DEI" which means "Instead of the Son of GOD."

Is it surprising that the Pope appears all harmless and sanctimonious? The coming of the antichrist is with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness.(v. 9-10).

By the grace of GOD, I'll open a thread on this.

raphieMontella, we're good to go.

btoks,

Please, Jesus Christ did not establish the catholic church which we have today. The RCC was established when pagan Rome gave the bishop of Rome its powers. The catholic church claims that its head is the pope, but we know that the head of the true church is Christ, not a mere man(Eph. 5:23). Jesus left a group of people who were obedient to GOD, and lived by the Scriptures.

Organising a group of churches under a certain bishop doesn't mean apostolic succession. This is very akin to the way the Jews continued to reiterate that they descended from Abraham. We know Jesus' answer to them.

Research well, you will see that the rcc is doing sun worship. It's so cleverly disguised as christianity. Satan is clever. Could you please leave sentiments and try to see if your church is going the way Jesus wants it to?

Please, don't even think that the catholic church wrote the scriptures. Paul referred to Scriptures even in his own time. The Bible is the only creed of doctrine, not human traditions.

btoks,

The catholic church may claim to descend from Jesus Christ directly, but their practices say the opposite. The catholic church has gone deep into apostasy, and almost all of her practices today differ from the Bible and what the early apostles did.

Merely uniting a group of churches under the Bishop of Rome doesn't mean descent from the early apostles. Those who descended from the early apostles are those still do as the early apostles did. The catholic church actually clings dearly for its life to apostolic descent to deceive people into thinking that they are not making any mistake.

The catholic church has been polluted by pagan practices like sun worship. The catholic church practises paganism in the name of Christianity. They have replaced GOD's word with the traditions of men.

It's a pity. The same thing Jesus warned against in Matt. 15:9. Have you ever wondered who the woman of Rev. 17 is? She is the catholic church.

Maybe you should study her well.

martin98:
Pls where did the bible say they were baptized outside the house? The Bible said the jailer took Paul and Silas to his home and the entire household was baptized that night. Acts 16:23-34

V.34 records that they came into the house, which means they went out. There wouldn't have been need to go out if they did sprinkling.

Smallville10:
preacher take it easy. U are gettin it all wrong, d pope is not d antichrist

He is.

btoks:
Erm! You may want to revisit bible history.It's very obvious that the NT books were written to an existing church.

The epistles were addressed to specific churches, although they are useful to all Christians.

Don't try to insinuate that the catholic church existed when these Gospels and epistles were written. The catholic church came into existence much later. You may want to revisit your church history.

"Atheists exist because the Bible has to be true in Psalm 14:1. For it cannot be that fools will cease to exist." -DoctorAlien

Stupedinluv,

On my university analogy: It actually depicts the relationship between GOD, man and salvation to a great extent. Let the parents represent GOD, the child the sinner, and university education salvation. The parents tell the child that he cannot be successful in life without university education(just as GOD through various means continues to warn sinners that they will be lost if they do not receive salvation).

The child cannot sponsor himself(just as a sinner cannot save himself). Then the father asks the son "Do you want to go to the university? I can fully sponsor you." The father cannot force him to school(just as GOD cannot force salvation on anybody). The child can either say yes or no to his father.

If he says yes(the sinner accepts and believes Jesus Christ), the father begins to see to it that the child gets university education(GOD cleanses and accepts the sinner as his son, and begins to help him in his Christian race).

Just my own way of depicting it.

Stupedinluv,

When you consider that not everybody who hears the gospel believes and accepts it, you'll then understand that we have a choice to be saved.

Right, belief can only come when one has heard the word of GOD. This is a call to us Christians to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ as far as we can by the help of the Holy Spirit, so that everybody will hear it. And as many as do believe, to them is given the power to become children of GOD.