₦airaland Forum

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5919442#msg5919442 date=1271701249]During that drought of 3 years, we won the FA cup and a Carling Cup to boot!
You have won nowt for 5 years. . . .FIVE FREAKING YEARS. [/quote]Of course, you kept on buying big, we haven't we are bringing a larger contingent of youngsters through and we are also buying them at younger ages.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5919442#msg5919442 date=1271701249]You lost a talent of 25 milla swapping Ashley Cole for Gallas. The dumbest piece of transfer ever by the moronic Wenger.
Cole has won titles for Chelsea since then, what has Gallas won?[/quote]Yep, good career move for Ashley Cole, Gallas also won trophies with Chelsea. So its not about the player but about the club and its spending.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5919442#msg5919442 date=1271701249]Keep making dud excuses as to why Wenger has fallen off. . . .
He's useless beyond useless. Years ago, he used age as his excuses.
Thank God, his babies are now grown-ups(that excuse has been dropped), he has now turned to using NET SPEND as his excuse.[/quote]How old exactly? the core of the youngsters bought at that time are still in their early 20s. We will improve the squad in the transfer market but the core of the team will still be our youngsters who came through.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5919300#msg5919300 date=1271699355]CR7 was bought in 2003 for 12 million------United had sold Veron(15 milla) and Beckham at 25 milla before Ronaldo was bought.
In 2004, United paid 27 milla for Rooney. . . . .The account still balanced.
We sold 40 milla, we spent 39 milla. [/quote]And of course, you didn't win the PL for 3 years when you did that and also fell out of the UCL in the group stages while the likes of CR7 and Rooney gained experience.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5919300#msg5919300 date=1271699355]Stopped spending?
The difference is United spent on productive players whilst Wenger continued buying duds.
Buying Vidic and Evra was a masterstroke for Fergie while Wenger bought an erratic Gallas and a spineless Rosicky.[/quote]We paid nothing for Gallas, he was swapped for Ashley Cole and 5m (if yu've forgotten) while we got Rosicky for 6.5m, its no use going into the individual details, the net sum speaks for itself. And those figures are from Sky who are known to be anti Arsenal if anything. You still outspent us by a clear 100+m

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5919300#msg5919300 date=1271699355]Chelsea spent more cos they did massive clear-outs.
Zola, Ed Goey, Babayaro, Melchiot, Hasselbaink, Zenden, Scott Parker, Forssell, Mutu, Gronkjaer all went out and they had to replace them.[/quote]Its irrelevant why they spent so much money, you can't spend what you don't have (or was given them by Abramovic). Those values from Sky are Net spends.

chic2pimp:
I think it would cuz if Memory serves me right the trio of Henry, Vieira and Campbell were in the top 6 wage earners in the league.

Yep, some of our top stars were in the top earner bracket back then, but that was before Abramovic's money and the Glazer's debt rolled in, now I doubt if anyone of them is apart from Adebayor before he was sold and maybe Gallas who came over from Chelsea.

chic2pimp:
Plus I'd like to compare and contrast with that of Man United not chelski's.
As far as I know Man united has always had the  bigger wage bill  but Wengay never saw it as an excuse cuz y'all where winning trophies back then.

I have not said that they have to be exactly the same, but a difference of 10m to 25m year on year is bound to have an effect or what do you think? isn't that the reason the likes of Stoke et al don't even dream of winning the PL? The idea going forward is the belief that such levels of investment into the playng staff is unsustainable in the long run and recent happenings (Abramovic's purse tightening and the upheavals at OT) lend some credence to that.

chic2pimp:
Guess this says it all.
Wengay has you lot thinking in profit and losses as opposed to the amount of trophies won.

If that is the way you see it, fair enough. I choose to see it as trying to find the balance between the two. They shouldnt really be mutually exclusive for a sustainable system.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5919156#msg5919156 date=1271698127]That was the only player we bought that season. . . .

We sold Tim Howard(4 milla), David Jones(1 million), Mikel Obi(12 milla) and Van Nistelrooy(11 milla)
So what are you talking about? We spent 18, we made 28 milla and still won the league.

What is their wage bill in comparison to Arsenal?[/quote]What of Rooney and CR7 you bought before then? in 2004 for 25m and CR7 too? besides you always had a competitive squad even before then anyway, it was not like we were winning the league every year and you lot somewhere mid table, you even had a better academy prior to Arsene's arrival and were always more attractive to young and upcoming players prior to the 90 minute rule.

The point is we stopped spending as much (both in transfers and wages) while you lot continued. Changes in spending patterns are not that immediately reflected as there are existing contracts to be wound up, the question yu should ask is how the difference in wage bill could jump from 3m to 25m within 2 seasons.

That is why Chelsea had to spend more because they had to meet up first, have a bedding in period and then compete., only they've not been smart enough to freshen up their squad.

Having said this though, I also agree Fergie is a good manager.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5919111#msg5919111 date=1271697541]Don't be deceived.
As at 2006/7, Man Utd's wage bill was £92.3m compared to Arsenal's £89.7m
The difference is less than £3m and yet United won the title that season.[/quote]Signings nko? was that not the season you got Carrick for over 18m?

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5919044#msg5919044 date=1271696872]Walcott was 12 milla------Same price United paid for Cristiano Ronaldo
Eduardo was 16 milla-----Sunderland paid 10 milla for Darren Bent
Vermaelen was 10 milla-----Vidic cost 7 million.
Nasri was 16 milla-------Malouda was 13 milla.[/quote]Nasri was 12m, Eduardo was about 8m.

@Slim
I have not stopped anyone from being angry, only to advice them to channel it aright. Everyone has a right to be angry but I also have the right to be optimistic, that is why we are all different.
I hope the anger subsides soon so we can all join forces together again against Arsenal haters like DK and Sauron, maybe I'm not so angry because I acknowledge we punch above our weight, it however doesn't stop me from being optimistic. Yu can't acheive anything without belief.

chic2pimp:
Are you telling me you are content with Finishing in the top 4 every season?

I am saying that I'm content with the direction the club has chosen to counteract the effect unsustainable spending by some other clubs has contributed to our inability to win trophies in the present. I'm aware it will take longer to achieve success with it, but success when it comes will be sustainable and I'm willing to wait until it is achieved.

biolabee:
http://gunnerblog.com/?p=2304

dudu the ethos is the word, these guys doo not have a team mentality no more which is why they are content to rise when Cesc is up for a game but cant help him when he is down.

Nani has improved tremendously when he did not make the bench consistently and he scored two great gols against bayern and demolished Arsenal at the emirates
If NB52 after his shambolicness against Burnley knows he will still play against Porto (in the 2nd round of UCL) why would he bother himself and not have a [size=16pt]sense of entitlement?[/size]
This applies to the other passengers in our team.

Interesting article and a nice summary of the season, but I don't agree with all the conclusions. This is the same team that was being heralded only last week as having had the most number of late winning goals and attesting to the mental toughness of the squad. If some people can forget all that because of a late collapse at Wigan I can't.
The question you should ask yourself is, Bendtner was playing only because RVP wasn't fit, he should have no problem in motivating himself for a match as his 9 goals in 11 games show.
On the day against Wigan, there were a number of individual errors but on the whole I think this squad had been dragging itself for a while and just didn't have enough strenght to get over the finishing line.

chic2pimp:
P:S Can Someone Pls  Tell Me What Arsenal's Wage Bill was During the Times of Henry, Vieira, Campbell,Pires and Co.
I'd Like to Compare the 2003/2004 wage bill to the present Day

That wouldn't show yu too much as they would have been on contracts signed before Abramovic came with his money miss road attitude. Freddy Ljunberg was reported to be on 35K when he left. However wages had to increase so we wouldn't lose our top talents to the likes of Chelsea and Manure.

Around 04/05 (when we won our last trophy) our wage bill was about the same as manure, their wage bill has however outgrown ours year on year since then and at the last accounts (07/08 season) there was a 25m difference between ours and theirs. Ours has only grown about 8% since then with our tying our young players to long term contracts but I'm yet to see Manures.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5918728#msg5918728 date=1271693926]I wonder o.
Nothing was said about their outrageous wage bill that is almost the same amount as Man Utd's.
Wenger woke up this morning to give excuses about money he does not have and reh reh reh.

Mind you, watching a league game @ the Emirates costs more than watching a football game anywhere on the planet.
What is eating their revenue?[/quote]as at the last year, still 25m more than ours, place alongside the 100+ million you already trounce us on transfer, that even makes the case stronger. The price of tickets is based on the laws of demand and supply, yes our revenue is high but we're still paying back loans (not spent on players but spent on the stadium).
Summer is nigh, we'll compare notes come august. And yes, our players are still growing, not all young players become world class in 5 years, even your CR9 who was bought at 18 did take 3 years to become the world class CR7.

chic2pimp:
I guess this is what happens when your team has not won a meaningful Trophy in quite a while now.
Or when did teams start basing their sucess on Net spend and what not?

Yes, it is the very reason why the club has not won a meaningful trophy as you say but has been in the top 4 every season.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5918365#msg5918365 date=1271690450]Whatz the NET SPEND of Portsmouth when they won the FA cup in 2008?
Whatz the NET SPEND of Aston Villa who have already been to WEMBLEY twice this season?

Arsene Wenger is a failure and he's lucky 4 teams represent England in the UCL.
By default, Arsenal are the 4th best team in England so whether they spend or not, finishing 4th is 100% certain.

I hope Platini strips the 4 places in Europe into 3 or 2.[/quote]Why is portsmouth being relegated and going into administration?
Why has Aston Villa never been to the UCL?

Well good thing yu aint Platini or all clubs would have to go into relegation or administration to advance their fortunes. And be careful what you wish for, by the time Platini does decide to make that decision, y'all might be the ones trying to get into the top 4 then, with your existing debts I'm not so sure yu'll be able to pull it off.

@biolabee

I have never said there shouldn't be a measure of criticism, all I've asked for is perspective in criticism. YES the lads bottled it on the day, YES Fabianski flapped at a corner he should have caught, YES Diaby was lazy on the pitch and all the other individual performances you want to nit pick on.

Over and above that, our performance over the course of the season has been to do with the strength of our squad as a whole, our squad in this season was still not as strong as that of Manure and Chelsea, (paraphrasing RAFA) that is a FACT and that is why we couldn't win the PL and possibly other trophies. Squad strength is a direct function (in most instances) of the amount of money you put in and we have not put in as much as the others (as those figures show), that is also a FACT.

Take the case of Diaby for example, he has been dodgy since the Birmingham game (I noticed this and pointed it out in the match thread while we were still 2-0 up) and if I could notice it, I trust Arsene could notice it too but in all honesty if Diaby was dropped against Wigan, who did we have fit to take his place?

@Debo

Neither do I have issues with you, we both support Arsenal for christ's sake, and to be honest we do agree on a whole lot of things and whats need be done to improve the team. I hurt as much as every Arsenal fan here, though I might have a rather funny way of showing it but yu people see me as the fantasist whereas I believe its the other way round.

Y'all want to have a club that wins everything and charts new frontiers like the invisibles but in the current (outgoing climate) that is nigh impossible within the timescales y'all want. Manure can afford to bench a 15m player like Nani while Arsene would have headaches if a 10m Vermaelen doesn't deliver on the pitch, yes no one is perfect and mistakes have been made, they can mask theirs because they have the debts to carry it but we don't. I believe the best way is the one we've chosen to bring players through, it is one that takes time yes but frankly speaking its the only way we've got.

As the club's financial situation improves, I expect to see more spending and better quality players coming in but it would still be in a sustainable way because we are not completely out of the woods yet, and even when we are out of the woods I wouldn't expect us to do things like what Madrid did to get CR9. But I expect to still be rooting for Arsenal when we finally get that elusive trophy.

Someone's said Arsenal needs Mourinho, maybe but is Arsenal ready to spend 366m like Chelsea have done?
It is easy to complain but very difficult to proffer "realistic" solutions to problems or to even attempt understanding the problem in the first instance for some people.

Only a board full of mad people would even entertain the thought of sacking Arsene.

Arsenal spending outlay in PL before and after move to the Emirates (also from Sky sports News)

                                               Before                            After
Total cost of players in:         199m                                 71m
Total from players out:           132m                                105m
Net spend:                               67m                                  -34m
net spend/ season                    5m                                   -9m

Yet, we've never dropped out of the top 4 in the PL and some idiots are calling for the manager's head, do people look at figures at all?

Figures from Sky Sports News today:

Net spending on players since the Premier League began:

Chelsea: 366m
Man City: 301m
Liverpool: 201m
Tottenham: 176m
Manure: 139m
Arsenal: 32m

Yet we've not dropped out of the top 4 since Arsene became manager and a so called intelligent person like Debo tells me Arsene is a failure??

debosky:

We had a run of seven victories, and then we stumbled, as the injury crisis just got worse and worse, day by day. So we lost to Tottenham and Wigan at a time when we were not going to win the league.

What a piece of mediocre, defeatist, boot licking bunkum.

I see why you agree with that blogger - he is as deluded and probably has his head stuck further up Wenger's behind than you do.

Anyone who has seen Diaby do the rubbish he has done in the past 5 games will know there is a problem with WENGER. How on earth, with an outside chance to WIN THE LEAGUE will you have players playing so LAZILY? What have these overprivileged idiots achieved to feel they can coast in the 80th minute when people like Scholes who have won more titles than they will EVER win are bursting a gut to score in the 93rd minute??

Wenger's boys have ZERO mental strength and have an overbloated image of themselves. We got decimated by Barca for goodness sake and at 4-1 (not 2-0) they were chasing us, taking the ball off us and trying to score.

We on the other hand are 'too big' to do that, with the idiotic mentality being fostered by Wenger that we are so good and so talented we can just coast by.

The longest stretch without a trophy for 20 years and nothing bad is happening? Something has truly happened to some gooner's mental faculties - Wenger has dulled them so much they can't see beyond his retarded and hopeless 'project'. One would think Arsenal were in poverty before he joined, or had never won. He had a good decade, but began taking things downhill from there.

No one is talking about going overboard here - what we are talking about is your blinkered, myopic view of things that cannot comprehend the egregious folly being displayed before our very eyes. If it was a coach who had balls, those players would be in training THIS MORNING watching that 10 minutes over and over again till they could never forget it.

But no, Wenger will pamper his kids again, HOPING they will somehow learn but they WON'T.

Vent your frustrations but no need for name calling, y'all look unreasonable from where I stand but I haven't said yu're silly, get some perspective and come off this you doom and gloom high horse, is that part you quoted the only point in the article? why not discuss the other parts No one has said the lads did well on the day and no team is ever perfect were this not the same boys who had a run of last minute winners? you do your club no good service with all this noise, leave that for Sauron and DK, this garb doesn't fit you.

I'm disappointed in you as a mod and a bit surprised yu havent reached for the bottle of poison yet to end your sorrows, whatever I've written is my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

I repeat that the only bad thing to happen to this club is the unsustainable amount of money poured in by the likes of Abramovic and debts from the other clubs, something even UEFA is addressing, if you don't like my point of view, there is a right angled wall very close to you, you can imagine whatever picture of me you come up with and head butt it if it makes you feel any better.

For those still disappointed with yesterday's result, this site might help you get some perspective, it sums up my points in a single article.
http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/2010/04/has-wenger-and-his-youth-project-utterly-failed/

Poor Wookash, I wouldn't like to have my birthday spoilt like that, damned unlucky chap.

mukina2:
Its not about fair weather fans, its about playing with people's emotions, most of us have young families, single, hoping, searching, finding, looking and we have destroyed things in arsenalic anger , even injured ourselves sef, we are just tired of this kinda stooopid things, first it was shyte shyte lane now its at Wigan its embarrassing jare.

eh yah, to support Arsenal isn't easy, I agree but it is in our blood now. Yu'll cope Muki.

davidylan:
Isnt it time we employed someone else and sold the club to Kroenke?

Dafidi, has Kroenke even offered to buy the club abi na dash we wan dash am?  

@Borat

Yu dey open the book of remembrance?  
we still had hope that time but hope don die now.  
we need to send a petition to that man up there for not hearing our prayers.

mukina2:
Dudu
i dont think diaby can ever improve, and i think it will be better if he is sent to Togo or CIV for a season or two on loan I am tired of waiting for his big transformation from a donkey to a goat Diaby will never change, he will always remain the same lackadaisical player he has always been.
dont you dare piss off Dr Kit in hia . .   he will unleash the dragon on you, 

Muuuukiiiii, you werent saying this about Diaby when they were mauling Porto neither was Debo calling for Arsene's head the other day Folly was calling in to ATVO. see fair weather fans. O ga o, failure no get relative. Oya sack everybody self and while you are at it why not burn down the Emirates also so we go know say una dey vex.

Abegi Kay, life no hard reach that one. It is only silly people who will go overboard because of something that is supposed to be entertainment. People should learn to apply perspective to everything in life.

This is what I believe and I'm bold to state it anywhere in front of reasonable people, should I be ashamed becos of that? why havent all fans of clubs that have gone into relegation hung themselves yet?

It is looney folk like this who give true gooners a bad name, and that is why you don't put the future direction of a club in the hand of a mob. I will wear the shirt with all pride even if my club goes into administration. I look around me and I see a lot to be thankful for about my club, anything wrong in that ?

I go to work everyday and there are people waiting for Arsenal to lose and pounce on me, I've borne it this long and I aint cracked yet. Try supporting Arsenal in the North of England and you'll understand what I mean. Immediately Wigan scored the 3rd goal about 3 people rushed to my desk to remind me what manure did yesterday, I only look at them and smile, there will be other days.

@Muki
I know Dr. Kit is a proper dragon but I is got ma flame resistant jacket on
nothing that Doki with a weak heart wan do me abeg, if I've not gone barmy due to our travails in the last 5 years its not likely any one can drive me over the edge.
I made my peace with Arsenal's situation a long time ago but I keep on believing. The board and the manager couldn't have all gone mad at the same time. Our time will come.

[Quote]
If Lady Nina sells her shares to either Stan or the Uzbek  Expect the clock to tick on Arsene!! Anyways why am i arguing with you!! He has only 1 year left on his contract!! If he doesn't deliver next season he will need no one to tell him to go!![/quote]Be careful what you wish for, I'm sure they were rejoicing at OT and Anfield when they were taken over, or when Gaydamak took over at Pompey or Egmundson took over at West Ham.  Besides the days of free lunches a la Abramovic are over, prudence is now the order of the day. Lets see how things pan out come summer.

mukina2:
Some please play me kill you by eminem . .i wanna spray duduspace's head off
for trying to piss off the honourable Dr Kit  (OUA,DBF, MA,PHD,LLMB)  

Dr Kit has been very reasonable recently but I no fit gree with am on this one. The final curtains on our season seems to have hit him too hard.   yu might need to help him change his pace maker batteries.  

In all honesty Diaby started messing up since the Brum game, check my posts during the Wigan match even before the team capitulated, I actually asked about his performance on the thread. I've come to the conclusion that y'all are right. Diaby is a very skillfull player who is not particularly intelligent (tactically) I thought he had finally crossed over this season but seems I was wrong, still a good player to have in the squad though if he continues the strides he made this season he is going to be some player. And in all honesty, I would gladly swap Nzogbia for Theo.

Dr Kit, I no get your time o, I believe what I say and I've never changed my stance. It is yu people who have not faced the reality of Arsenal's situation. When your blood alcohol level drops we can have a level headed discussion on what we need to do, in the mean time ease off on that bottle of kai kai yu're drowning your sorrows in.

debosky:
Are you joking??

Have you seen the replays? The first goal was close to Fabianski - he should've saved it. Second goal - he dropped the ball on Bramble's head for him to score all in less than 5 minutes. Now you tell me it is not solely goalkeeping failings?

It's comments like these that make me wonder if you're deliberately ignoring things in blind loyalty to Wenger.

Okay, lets agree that today was due to Keeper's failings (this is the same keeper that has won best keeper award for 2 seasons consecutively in poland before he came to Arsenal), what of the pressure that led to those goals? was it also the keeper who played Bale onside against Tottenham? was the keeper also responsible for all our losses or dropped points this season?

@Loyika

I don't do self pity, neither do I do self flagellation, it is not in my nature cos it achieves nothing. If it rings your bell please go ahead and indulge in it. I look ahead, we make do with what we have, if they are not good enough for you that is all fine and dandy. You choose to see the cup half empty, I see it near full. What exactly is your proposed solution to our problem?

1. Arsene out? (not likely to happen)
2. External investment (same as above)
3. Going into debt (same as above)
4. Get adequate reinforcements? (we are all agreed on this, the scale of changes we might not agree on but I trust the manager who brought us Vermaelen and Arshavin to get us the best at competitive prices)

What then exactly does this pessimistic attitude achieve for a true fan? I don't really understand you people.  

debosky:
I am cool, what infuriates me is when you try to sugar coat blatant failures and refuse to see the glaring mistakes that have been made. 

Your expectations are not high bro - let me be the one to tell you the truth. For you to state than an Arsenal side overachieved by coming 3rd and being satisfied with that shows how low they are.

I accept reality, but I CANNOT accept that Wenger cannot find keepers better than Almunia and Fabianski without bankrupting Arsenal football club - that, my friend, is living in a fantasy land invented by Wenger and[b] not reality.[/b]

I cannot accept that Wenger couldn't buy a striker in January when we so sorely needed one, instead spending 5m on Chamakh which would have bankrupted Arsenal football club - that again, is another one of those fantasies.

I cannot accept repeated TERRIBLE transfer market dealings and excuse them by claiming we are building a stadium.

I have no grouse with building a team, BUT, when we have seen repeated failure and continue to reward it, I draw the line. If we keep making THE SAME mistakes without fixing it, it's time to change things, but you believe more of the same will some how lead to a change.

I get your point about individual transfers but today's game for example was not really lost solely due to goalkeeping failings. Overall, the quality of our squad is still poor compared to that of Chelsea and Manure. An analogy of Arsenal at present is like that Economics thingy where the demand and supply curve meet. We need to get the proper balance between internally developed player and external reinforcements (without violating our policy on spending). Methinks the idea was to hang on until the financial situation improved. Now there are no excuses for next season, the core of our squad have been together for ages now and will average 23 years old by the end of this year, we have quality backup and exceptional players coming through, we have enough money (not to compete with Chelsea and the likes) but to bring in the needed reinforcements.
If we lose our key players over the summer, I'll agree there is no hope going in to next season, but if we strenghten as we all agree and the situation remains the same at the end of next season, I will join you in agreeing that we have no hope. This team is very close.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=400313.msg5913696#msg5913696 date=1271615460]Make Wenger and co. go chop Igbe jare the NBA Playoffs are here i got Basketball on ma mind[/quote]Awwwwwh, see what this money miss road people at SB and OT are doing to football? A-40 don't give up on Arsenal, we will surely get there, victory is so near I can smell it.  

debosky:
Dude stop talking nonsense - I guess Utd has dominated the premier league era with a sugar daddy right?   

When have I ever said buy every buyable?  You are so deluded along this line you can't see the wood for trees. All I have said is make the NECESSARY purchases to improve this side, instead of stagnating and perpetually being in building mode. It's sad to see how mediocre your expectation has become - we should be rejoicing that we've developed a player or two and continue to win nothing. Kudos to you.

Why couldn't Wenger buy this January and supplement? Foolishly, he brought in another cheap option instead - failing to sign a striker. I guess we are now broker than we were in January 2009 when we could afford to buy Arshavin right? 

Keep excusing daft and unforgivable mistakes by the coach. Playing Fabianski after his numerous AWFUL gaffes? For once I agree that Mannone would've done a better job.

Cool it down b4 you fulfill DK's prophecy of buying a noose. True, Manure don't have a sugar daddy but are in serious debt and have not built a stadium.
My expectations are high but I accept reality as well. Bring on next season.

debosky:
Thanks for that Dudu - 5 years to develop Song, 5 years to develop Clichy (who still makes a game losing error every 2 games by the way).

I guess after another 5 years we might have a complete midfield, then another 5 years to build an attack. By that time, the first batch in the first 5 years would retire and we can continue the cycle all over again.

What a brilliant and self sustaining plan.

And your alternative to buy every buyable player is as brilliant and as self sustaining? until you become as rich as Abramovic and buy the club however that will remain a pipe dream.