₦airaland Forum

debosky:
Arrant nonsense - anyone who looks at this season realistically would know that we needed an alignment of the planets that occurs once ever 1,000 years to win, despite the OBVIOUS weaknesses in our main rivals.

And what makes you think those weaknesses won't continue in our main rivals? wasn't Manure better than this last year? why has their performance dropped this season and where are the guarantees it won't drop further next year? why the dip in Liverpool's fortunes?  I still think our squad overall is still the best going forwards, that Chelsea squad is old, they should be thanking God Arsenal and Manure finally allowed them a last hurrah. They will need another investment between 50m and 100m to keep up standards. The likes of Ballack, Lampard, Belleti, et al will even be worse off and for Manure, the likes of Giggs and Scholes are reaching retirement age rapidly and you only need to look at the performance against Blackburn to see that the quality coming through the ranks is in no where near what we have already or can add and no matter what anyone says, Manure are not going to have much money to splurge as their recent signings indicate what we can expect going forwards. In reality, this squad overachieved this season no matter what Arsene said they could or could not do at the beginning of the season, what you believe and what happens are different things.

debosky:
The team has always been a project and will always be - an endless project that delivers nothing.

You can hold that view, but you can also hold the view that everything having a beginning is bound to have an end. I hold this view and also the view that this end is very near based on recent events.

debosky:
The same rubbish assertions - who cares what chance the team was given? Unless Arsene is saying he didn't expect the team to win the title and they did better than he expected, then the people who didn't expect anything are IRRELEVANT. If Wenger says the team should have won a trophy and they DIDN'T, that is CLEAR UNDER performance.

If you don't aim high then you can never fall short, I have never expected Arsene to go into a season telling the players they are young and can't win anything, if other clubs do that then they lack ambition in my opinion. If you fall short of your goals then you do a reexamination and move forward. Arsene believes the team was of a sufficient strenght to win a trophy yes, and the team did show that in being in the title race this long. Our chosen way is one that takes time and patience, we would only have failed when we go into a season without believing we can compete for titles or when we go into a season with the manager telling us we need 60m in squad investment when we already have a 300m debt. I don't believe in Pyrrhic victories of Pompey proportions.

debosky:
The matter is not irresponsible spending - Barca hasn't spent irresponsibly - Utd has not won the last 3 seasons spending 'irresponsibly' - they made more from one sale than we likely made in 4 seasons.

Barcelona is indebted to an amount over 300m, they are a club not allowed to fail by reason of their regional importance to the catalans a luxury not afforded to the Arsenal as I'm sure the English media would barely refrain from rolling out the drums if Arsenal does a Pompey. The financial rule tightening should help in providing a more level playing field. If RM decide to put in a ridiculous amount into Manure's pocket that is fine but where is RM itself now? anything to show for their ridiculous spending?

debosky:
Dream on - only the most optimistic dreamer will think Chelski and Utd will not improve on their flaws of this season. On the other hand, Arsenal will likely sell one or two key players, thereby rendering it another REBUILDING season.

I will dream on Debo, it would make the victory all the more satisfying when it comes. There is a certain pride in being able to say "I did it my way" or in this instance "The Arsenal way". This club believes it can win without paying unreasonable amounts that will jeopardise the club's future. It prioritises the PL and UCL participation because that is where the money is.

debosky:
Best placed financially but no trophies, which WILL eventually start affecting game attendances which will eventually affect finances in the end.

We have heard the same rehashed tales since 2006 and we keep hearing it. It is VERY convenient of you to try to draw the line at 07/08, what happened in 05/06 or 06/07? Or there was no project then??

I don't care if some people are satisfied with the sub par performances of Arsenal football club in the past 5 years, but as the biggest club in London, we deserve far better.

We've also heard this year after year now, infact I'm beginning to think that the only thing that can change is that Arsenal can and will some day win a title, there will always be rumors about being taken over or unsettled players and when people will no longer turn up at the emirates. Some fans don't seem to understand what the club is committed to, everyone has the right to be disappointed when their club comes up short but no one has the right to demand the unreasonable.
Arsenal is all about long term sustainability, the board and the management have done that and done it well. The short term "trophy" success will come and certainly very soon.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5905861#msg5905861 date=1271456642]Debosky, don't be a pessimist!!!

The amount of money United and Chelsea have spent in the past 5 seasons will surely outweigh whatever Wenger wants to achieve.
Besides that, the ridiculous 90-min rule has put paid into grooming quality players like Barcelona, Madrid and other top European teams.
Blame the FA for this mess. . . . .not Wenger.[/quote]Are you taking the mick Sauron didn't expect to hear this from you. Debo's confidence is shattered but mine remains as strong as ever and to be honest a lot of gooner fans I know are getting their belief back. One was calling me yesterday to make plans for attending the Emirates cup in August after staunchly refusing to attend the last one because he didn't want to give any more of his hard earned money to stingy people.  
I would still take Arsenal as it is right now to a lot of other clubs including manure but we do need to win something very soon, hope deferred has made Debo's heart weak.

See people's belief failing, so if we had won this season there would have been no problem abi, why are people so fickle minded? This team has always been a project and I insist it is one that is very close to fruition. My take on the Arsenal team remains the same. We suffered a setback in the 07/08 season when we shld have moved onwards, this team with a little bit more luck could have won something.

This team was a team given no chance but has exceeded all expectations this term, is no where near its peak at all, could be improved yes, but takes nothing away from the commitment to a principle that built it in an era of irresponsible spending that is now generally accepted as unsustainable.
Keep the core of the team, improve the places where we are lacking and we'll have a squad that can sweep all before it next season. I see a repeat of the 02/03 and 03/04 season repeating itself, Arsene said his team could win the league unbeaten in 02/03 and they didn't do it then losing only 1 match, he was derided all over the press and the squad went ahead and did it the next year. Arsene saw the improvement in this team and believed he cold win this season, we have come very close and maybe fallen short but this team can hold its head high this season, up till the very closing stages we pushed.

This team matches on and Arsene still knows, there is no Manager I know who could have achieved what Arsene has achieved with his resources apart from Van Gaal perhaps. The foundation is set and in the new dispensation of financial responsibility about to be ushered in I think Arsenal will be the best placed club in England at least.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=400313.msg5900412#msg5900412 date=1271378445]Dudu you and i know Wenger won't do a lot of these things you listed but i must also add your list is missing crucial components. We need a goalie! Almunia and Fabianski are just not it

A CB make that two if we lose Gallas

Someone needs to slap some sense to Clichy's head maybe rumor of our eyeing a class LB or actual purchase would wake him up

We need cover for Song i mean real cover not Diaby and Denilson

We need a legit winger! Imagine if we had a player as good or even better than Walcott on the other flank? Enough of playing CAM's on the flanks and expecting miracles

Lastly a striker! We know RVP stays injured, Eduardo na cadaver and Bendtner is still on the come up. Our midfield may not be so prolific next season

Walahi if we don't make these personnel changes by God's grace shebi all of us go dey here same time next season na still dis same song we go sing!

06/07
07/08
08/09
09/10

Some of us don tey for this matter pass Schnapp and even Colecovision[/quote]You are very right, how did I miss that goalie part? maybe because I honestly think the answer is in-house already, though winning a trophy at all costs next season might be too much to thrust on a 19 year old but if you're good then you're good as Cassilas was 18 when he took over the gloves at Madrid I think and Szczesney is special and is almost as confident/arrogant as Bendtner.
I'll trust Arsene's decision on this as long as Alamumu is not wearing our gloves next season.

Chamakh already covers the striker position and all pointers are that it is already a done deal, I'm not sure about that MF as I think Denilson and Diaby have really stepped up this season and TBH, they contributed more than enough, if we were more efficient upfront, some of their lapses wouldn't be so apparent, in most of the matches they have dominated the MF (yes even in the games against Chelsea and Manure).

I've had arguments with some of my friends about that winger type player and my opinion is this, if Walcott can't become that player then he should go, he won't get playing time central and Arshavin has the left wing locked down, with Vela an able replacement IMO if Arsene gives him the opportunity. Only the right wing is up for grabs and if Theo still allows Eboue to get in ahead of him during crunch time then something is badly wrong. The only problem is that you and I know Theo is not likely going anywhere anytime soon as he fills our English quota.

The CB thingy, I agree with you 100%, we need at least one CB from the market as I expect Gallas to be worse next season cos the signs are there already in my opinion, but I can count on Arsene to bring up one of the players on loan (most likely Nordtveit to fill the other spot).

In terms of summer dealings this is what I think.

Incoming:
1.  Chamakh             80% (rumors of a done deal)
2. Center back          70% (we will likely get one, maybe that Savic guy we looked at earlier in the season?)
3. Goal keeper          50% (the question is will Arsene trust Szczesney? or go for experience?)
4. Winger                  30% (Theo is an unfinished project unlikely to be abandoned, if he progresses again next season, this might not be necessary)
5. Big Sol 100% (Contract extension non negotiable, the others can learn a lot from this guy's spirit no wonder he has won so many things)

Outgoing:
1.  Almunia                90% (need I say more?)
2.  Silvestre                100% (no explanation required)
3. Eduardo                 60% (surplus to requirements)
4. Rosicky                   50% (do we give playing time to youngsters? if he is content with more bench time, quality experience to have around)
5. Merida                    40% (can we convince him to stay due to Rambo injury? and offloading some of the older heads?)

We'll likely come up short again in the end but this is a massive improvement over last season. As long as we don't lose players (which we shouldn't because they are mostly on long term contracts) the gaps to fill are easy enough. The core of the team is fine already, at most 3 players, Chamakh, a solid CB like Vermaelen, Keep Sol around, 1 or 2 young guns stepping up and we are set.

The only thing to watch out for next season is the emergence of City after a likely splurge in the summer helped by a likely 4th placed finish with UCL participation next season and how quickly they settle (they'll also have a lot of games to play though and their squad might be strained haven never competed on so many fronts), I'll fancy our chances against an even older Chelsea team and a Manure squad already showing some financial restraint in the transfer market.

presido1:
Nah I will wait till Adebayor sweep the market square.

You no well, na Tevez go first sweep OT clean.

[quote author=Demain_man link=topic=430258.msg5897324#msg5897324 date=1271342383]The fact that the nigerians are getting the sack and the indians are getting recruited and being brought in to take over the jobs from nigerians in nigeria means one thing and one thing alone. Reduce unemployment in India, Increase it for Nigerians in NIGERIA. not offshore o!!!

Is quite sad indeed. SAD!!![/quote]Lai lai, this cannot happen, is it a millitary occupation like Iraq? 450 nigerians to be sacked and 450 indians recruited and transferred to Nigeria instead that would be madness even for a mad country like Nigeria, it is not even cost effective so I can't imagine a business run on a  profit and loss basis attempting that.
My take on this is that the so called 50 indians(though I would even seriously doubt the number) are either working towards the migration of the IT services and infrastructure back to India, the day 450 indians will come and take over a contact center in Nigeria would be the height of madness.

You are right about one thing though, it is more unemployment for Nigerians but the finger of blame should not be pointed at Ericsson but at Nigeria itself, our problems are self created and can only be self solved.

Tmoni:
even if it is outsourcing jobs to india, i sincerly do not want to believe that cost of labour in India is cheaper than Nigeria,

the only pro for this move might be supply of electricity

Supply of electricity is a major one, its the total cost of operations that will be considered at an executive level as these sorts of decisions aren't usually taken lightly. No one will make this sort of decision if there are no obvious gains in profit or efficiency and Sony Ericsson isn't owned by Indians anyway.

[quote author=Demain_man link=topic=430258.msg5897105#msg5897105 date=1271340240]My Friend, did you read the original post where it say about fifty Indians have already been employed and moved to Nigeria and more are on the way. How is that outsourcing to India to you?[/quote]And did you read the advert for jobs that was quoted by the original poster? no where in there does it say those jobs are for Nigeria all the offices mentioned were based in India.
Even if for arguments sake we agree that those people employed will be brought to Nigeria and there exists a law controlling the approval of work permits, isn't it our own people who will go ahead to collect bribes and issue those work permits?

There is a lot of ignorance being spewed out here, like Ajanlekoko pointed out, all this company is doing is to move jobs offshore (there is nothing in that advert that mentions the indians being brought to Nigeria, the jobs are located in India) and this is actually done a lot in the developed world (I lost my job with ebay in Dublin some years back when some IT first level support was moved to Manila) .
Someone has basically made a business case for moving all or a part of the NOC services offshore and hard figures must have been used as a basis for this. Most Telecoms firms in the UK and other developed countries have such offshore services and they are mostly located in Asia (India, Malasia, Phillipines e.t.c).
The two things the Nigerian government could have done to prevent this (without delving too much into the economics) is to:

1. Make the cost of running the NOC from Nigeria cheaper than moving it to India (ensuring stable power supply is a critical factor)
2. Reduce the cost of labour in the form of wages for these Nigerian employees to bring it in line with what the Indians will be earning.

Direct your anger aright, it is the genaral malaise afflicting Nigeria just manifesting in some other form. Make this country good and all other things shall be added unto it. SIMPLES.

[Quote]
Wenger - Sol showed why he is a winner

Arsène Wenger says Sol Campbell's performance in the North London derby shows why the defender is a winner.

The 35-year-old may have been on the losing side at White Hart Lane but despite a hostile reception at Tottenham, he put in a solid performance at centre back.

The defender started his career at Spurs but gave up the captaincy to move to Arsenal on a free transfer in 2001. Since then he has made over 200 appearances for the Gunners in two spells with the Club.

After missing last week's trip to Barcelona, Campbell started at Tottenham and earned praise from his manager after the match.

"Sol was one of our better players," said Wenger.

"I think he was outstanding and he has shown what a winner he is and if he won championships, you see why.

"He deserves a lot of credit tonight because he turned up with a real performance."[/quote]Now will you quickly show him the money and keep him for next season, seems our lads need to learn how to leave it all on the pitch. Proper warrior Sol was yesterday, both Defoe and Pav knew they faced someone.

Kai, all this boys just embarrased Big Sol and RVP yesterday. Anyway what is done is done, some of the boys need competition. What I find a bit embarrasing about this team is the fact that they always concede the initiative to their opponent as if they can only do fightbacks.

I felt like jumping into the TV to give Diaby a beating yesterday, it was only after all was clearly lost that he decided to put any urgency into his game, Nasri dribbled into the box at a point and then dribbled out of it and was almost completely anonymous during the match, where was the response to going down? or the urgency to win they should have started with? Eboue was almost back to his Wigan watershed level while Rosicky just couldn't seem to do anything right.

Number 1 out in the summer should be Almunia, a bit of a fluky goal but any football star wannabe just needs to make a wish to play against Almunia and he will duly put his name on the football map. I almost puked when they started playing "Kiss from a Rose" for Danny Rose on Sky sports yesterday, someone who couldn't even hold a light to the likes of Barazite in the reserves has been turned into an overnight sensation by Almunia? exactly the way he made Bentley look like a world class player with that chip last season.

Chei, yesterday was not a good day at all. But in the midst of it all, I still found time to say Welcome back to RVP, now if only those injuries could go away what a player we would have.

mbulela:
sir Alex must be laughing and having hiccups over his glass of whisky.
Sold Silvestre for 2 million to Arsene?
kai!!! Wenger,please give me a call, i have a bridge to sell you.
It is in mint condition and the price tag is still intact.

This is not true, Silvestre was signed for .5 of a million.

@ Dr Kit,

I can't recall either of Villa or Silva ever wearing the red and white and neither have we been linked to either of them yet. 

At the time Ade left, he was no longer our no 1 striker. RVP was always Arsene's first choice, Ade surprised everyone including Arsene (who stated that he expected between 15 and 20 goals per season at the most from Ade) with his 30 goal season in 07/08 and then held the club to ransom to get a bigger contract. Arsene allowed this in the summer of that season because he wasn't sure RVP would come back as good as he did and Bendtner was still a work in progress.

When RVP came back last season, he showed with his performance he was the best of our strikers and when City saturated with so much "Arab money" made an offer of 25m, it was an offer Arsene couldn't refuse to get rid of a striker on a fat salary who was not much better(In Arsene's opinion) than the Home Grown Bendtner (having scored just a goal more than B52 the entire season and failing to turn up in the season defining matches against Manure), a decision Bendtner has justified with his recent performances (8 goals in 10 games from latter stage UCL and title chasing PL games is world class form at the least, I doubt even Ade was that hot in games to goals ratio during his 30 goal season and that doesnt even include the assists).

Basically, ever since Bendtner has come in fully into the team after his injury he has had at least a goal related impact in almost every game, he also had a hand in every goal we scored in our biggest match up of the season against Barcelona showing that he turns up for the big games, if that chap still has anything left to prove to some people (apart from consistency in retaining his form over time and like the Laudrup brothers advised him, improve his first touch) then I seriously wonder what that is.

I don't know if anyone out there plays the football manager game, but I would recommend it to anyone who wants to understand the rudiments of how a manager balances his squad and takes decisions. It helped me understand a lot of Arsene's decisions in selling and keeping players and a sneak peek into wages and financial issues and behind the scenes player psychology.

slimshay:
Dudu interesting argument, but

1. There were no actual reports of Sonderos's injuries. As matter of fact at a point in time it was a day before a game we hear that Sonderos is carrying a knock. Which seemed to lend weight to all the gossip about things not being right between him and Wenger or thereabout.

Even I felt there was something fishy going on at the time which was about the same time Almunia was off to family issues, Senderos and Arsene did have their fall-out with his insistence on regular playing time prior to the world cup when he clearly didn't deserve to be played ahead of either Verm or Gallas but he did have injury issues at the beginning of the season prior to his going out on loan, Arsene always confirmed this in his weekly interviews and he was listed on the injured player's list.
Wenger did not bring in Sol Campbell until Senderos had gone out on loan that is a fact. All other conjectures as to why Senderos was not playing might be true or untrue, the fact that Almunia came back into the team indicates he could have come back too if he was willing to put in the effort or if any of Vermaelen or Gallas slipped up.

slimshay:
2. For all the argument about Vela's talent, it says a whole lot that he's virtually been lost all season. I mean this boy has played less games than Van Persie. Of all our strikers this season, he's the one with the least reported injuries, yet the one with the least amount of games. What is really happening. I dont watch a lotta reserves but is he even playing in the reserves?

I agree Vela has issues to sort out with Arsene (whatever he needs to do to get into the first team) but I do know Arsene places a lot of emphasis on a player having a proper pre-season because it is at this point he sets out how the team will play through the season, recall that Gilberto lost his place to Flamini in 07/08 simply because he missed pre-season due (to Copa America 2007 I think) and despite the fact that he scored 11 goals from MF the previous season, as long as Flamini was performing, he never got the opportunity to claim the shirt again.
My take on Vela's inability to push on for a proper first team place is:

1. He didn't partake in pre-season due to injury, even the likes of Wilshere, Merida, Szczesney,Coquelin et al were major participants in pre-season, this is from his wiki page and I've already posted a statement from Arsene confirming this.
[Quote]
Vela missed Arsenal's pre-season campaign after suffering an ankle injury which kept him out until September. He returned to action on 22 September by coming off the bench in Arsenal's 2–0 win by assisting the first and scoring the second goal against West Bromwich Albion in the Carling Cup. On November 21, 2009 Vela made his first appearance this season in the Premier League away to Sunderland, playing 21 minutes after coming on as a substitute for Eduardo.[/quote]you can see that he didn't make his first real first team appearance of the season until November 21 when RVP was already injured, and when we were a goal down to Sunderland away, this was basically because there were a lot of international windows during this period where he had to fly to Mexico for mid week matches, it was this that prompted this article by someone.
http://wrighty7..com/2010/03/mexico-internationals-could-kill-carlos.html

2. Earlier on in the season, he was also injured on International duty while at other times he simply couldnt make the match day squad due to fatigue from long flights back from mid week international matches.

3. There is also the possibility he has a bit of a laid back attitude with the loss of his passport making him look unserious after the Barcelona match(even though recent reports indicate that it is not clear if the passport was lost by him or Arsenal administrative staff or even if its been found now)
see http://carlosvelanews.co.uk

Whatever is responsible for Vela's inability to break in fully into the first team can always be sorted out, he has got time on his side and all of Wenger's statements point to the fact that he wants to keep him if he is patient and takes his opportunity when it comes and I haven't seen any indication of impatience on his part unlike the likes of Bentley who felt he deserve playing time ahead of Pires at his peak and he hasnt been given what you would call opportunity yet.

Arsenal spent 125,000 (rising to a little over 500,000 based on 1st team appearances) to buy Vela and I doubt he is on anything above 25k per week at present on his new long term contract since he is yet to even break into the first team fully but Eduardo was bought for 7.5m and I would be greatly surprised if Eduardo is on anything less than 45K per week on his new contract (with Theo reportedly on 60K).

If Arsene sold Paddy at 30 years old to make an 18 year old Cesc the main stay of his midfield and sold a 25 year old Adebayor to make room for B52 in attack just because he had come to the conclusion that the difference in performance levels wasn't so great, the signs are very ominous for Eduardo particularly when Arsene is actually dipping into the market to get a striker.
I can almost assure you that the only thing that will keep Eduardo with us next season is if a decent offer doesn't come and even if he stays, he won't get much playing time.

debosky:
Dude what are you saying? We ALL knew that Senderos was not going to play for Arsenal in the games that mattered this season - he'd play Song and even Diaby at CB before touching Senderos. This was no 'mid season' anything. Besides, it is pure nonsense to say Silvestre was at his best at any point with us - he was FINISHED, and Wenger bought him as a cheap backup who wouldn't complain by sitting on the bench. Same with Sol - a player past his best content to bench warm, who has incidentally had to play. Let's not even get started with the awful state of CBs that Wenger has gotten us into.

Are you trying to rewrite history here? Senderos' season was injury blighted (something that has followed him to Everton) the only time he was fit while with us this season, he partnered Silvestre in a Carling Cup game against liverpool where he looked good, he went on loan because he was considered only good for a bench role (something Campbell obviously has no issues with). I never said Silvestre was at his best anywhere, yu're now implying things I never said. If he was up to par, there would have been no reason to buy Sol Campbell is the statement I made, besides Sol was only bought after Senderos went out on loan and not before to tally with Arsene's principle of having 4 first team CBs.

debosky:
Define 'relatively injury free'. Dudu that played 4 games and had a groin or hamstring problem? 

During the period while RVP was out, Eduardo missed only one game due to injury up till the end of the season, before then I didn't keep a tab on how fit he was but he spent most of that time on the bench anyway but I'm sure he was fit even through most of the earlier part of the season (his penalty brouhaha during UCL qualifier matches attest to this) and was part of the Pre-season (I saw him score at the emirates cup) unlike Vela who didn't even partake in Pre-season and was out for an extended period in the earlier part of the season due to injuries picked up while on international duties or jet lag after playing midweek friendlies for Mexico as Arsene himself stated in a statement I initially posted.

debosky:
I'm glad you said no additional striker for competition - Vela wasn't even in the PICTURE.

He is not yet in the picture and I never said he was, he was a player bought to be developed and given the opportunity to play himself into contention in the first team, he hasn't done that this season despite showing much promise in the last season, he has however showed that the innate ability is not lacking by his performances while on loan, for Mexico in the WC qualifiers and Gold cup. The reasons why this has happened will be examined by himself and the gaffer and a way forward determined over the summer, it remains to be seen if a loan out would be an outcome but Arsene would be a nutter to even entertain the notion of selling such a talent and I know he aint one.
Eduardo's case is completely different, he was bought to compete directly and play in the first team, this season (his third) he had an immediate opportunity to step in while players ahead of him in the pecking order were out injured but did not, a player bought to play wide had to go central instead, subsequently a player behind him in the pecking order at the beginning of the season has overtaken him and the manager is now looking out to bring in another player to improve the striking department, surely it doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine where this is going?

debosky:
This is all conjecture - being Croatia's top dog doesn't stop you from being a bench player. If Berba was a bench player for many games till Rooney got injured and remains the top dog, then what is the issue?

You completely illustrate my point here, why isn't anyone calling for Marcheda or Welbeck's head? why is everyone "rightly" placing the blame on Berba for recent stumbles? at the point he was needed with Rooney out, he couldn't carry the mantle in most people's opinion (though I personally think writing him off is premature). But the truth is, if Fergie were to go into the market to buy a striker with the books requiring some balancing, it wouldn't be Marcheda or Welbeck at risk, it would be Berba.

debosky:
The last striker in that scenario was an AGED Kanu, not a 27 year old (REAL AGE) Eduardo. While Dudu wasn't bought as a 'bench player' he was unlikely to be the #1 at the club.
Like I said earlier, the most likely end result is that both of them will stay at the club.

The same Kanu who went on to win an FA cup with Portsmouth? and has stayed in the PL since never dropping down the leagues once. The point is, Arsene doesn't usually keep players above 25 around as 3rd choice strikers, Arsene's time here is replete with such players. Kanu, Baptista, Jeffers, Ljunberg(an invincible), Suker and even Aliadere whom he gave all the time in the world to prove himself before his time ran out at 24 and Aliadere is not even half the talent Vela is.
I agree he has the right to change his mind and make an exception for Eduardo but no matter which way you look at it, the person at risk from Chamakh's purchase and who has made his purchase a necessity by his performance is Eduardo. You can make all the excuse for him but that remains true.

dayokanu:
All looks Gloomy for Gayyners as usual

What is your problem DK? do you see anyone crying here?

slimshay:
Ironically Eduardo converted one of those chances to keep us in the FA cup.

Rosicky, A-40 are you kidding me? We might have all sorts of creative midfileders but let Rosicky go? Hope Wenger doesnt make that mistake. Rosicky's one bad game this season has been Barca away.

Slim, its a pity the core of my point is lost in Debo's sentimentality when it comes to discussions about Eduardo. We like players for different reasons but no matter how much you like a player if changes have to be made to improve the team then some heads must roll.
If Arsene has made to decision to go for a striker, it is because he has seen there is a gap to be filled in the first team and the first team striker who has lost his position this season is Eduardo so that speaks for itself.

Carlos Vela is a player looking to break into the first team and will likely get more opportunity to do so but Eduardo is here and now, buying another striker at this point is like saying "Son, you are no longer good enough", imagine what buying Ruud Van Nistelrooy would have meant when we had TH14 leading the line

Rosicky's place is not under threat at present, when we get linked to a MF player like say Sneijder or Van der Vaart he might start to worry. In 17 starts and 13 subs appearances as a MF he has scored 3 goals and assisted 5 which isnt in any way bad for a midfielder. Compare this to Eduardo who as a striker in 16 starts and 14 subs appearances had 5 goals and 6 assists.

Arsene has also stated he is careful in playing him due to his known injury issues and the chap probably has a different training regimen. People have made so much of his Barca Away performance but frankly speakin, for a player who was rated at 50:50 just 24 hrs before the match he didn't do badly we met a better team on the day and were rightly thumped.

debosky:
Can you tell me the last time Arsenal had 3 of their 4 CB's over 30?   Can you tell me when last Arsene bought a Cb that's not French of some sorts before Vermaelen? These are all irrelevant points. Having a 27 year old 4th striker is the least of Arsenal's worries.

So you agree it is unusual? case closed, as to those CBs there is a difference between when your hand is forced mid-season and when planning for a season, we all know there wouldn't have been a reason to buy Big Sol if Silvestre was up to par or Senderos didnt have to go on loan. Besides, Arsene would be the first to tell you that CB's are at their best from their mid 20s to early 30s.

debosky:
I don't know who will be where - and with the quantity of games Arsenal plays and the injuries to the strikers we have, a 3rd choice striker will still have 20+ starts which is sufficient for Dudu, even at this 'stage in his career' (whatever that means).

You sure havent been checkin the stats Debo, this season despite a relatively injury free season for him, injuries to the other 2 strikers and no additional striker for competition he is yet to clock 20 starts with just 5 games to go. I would be very surprised if a bench role is sufficient for a player of Eduardo's pedigree, remember this is Croatia's first choice striker, besides a bench role for him would only end up holding back upcoming players something we all know Arsene will not allow and rightly so.

debosky:
Regarding who is first second or third, it all depends on how quickly Chamakh settles if he comes, and a whole host of other issues. I am not hung up about 3rd or 4th choice like you seem to be, and I doubt if Dudu is either - he is simply glad to still be playing footie at the moment. Whichever role he holds, I'm far more comfortable in retaining a striker close to his prime who just needs confidence to start performing as he already has in the EPL.

You aptly illustrate the sentiments with which you approach this issue, if it makes you feel better Eduardo aint going no where, he might just need to get used to more bench time, the last striker who was in this same scenario was a certain great Nigerian who became known as the Chairman and he transferred to West Brom the season after. When we bought Eduardo, he wasn't bought as a bench player, it is a big pity Taylor seems to have turned him into one.

Wilshere is playing in the hole against Chelsea today, live on ESPN guys.

Simple question, Debo, can you tell me the last time Arsenal had a 4th choice striker that old? Just tell me the name and this discussion is over. Even 3rd choice as you say is not the best for a player at the stage he is in his career. Remember also that the basis of my conclusion all along was Arsene buying Chamakh and him dropping to 4th choice or would you say he is ahead of any of RVP or Bendtner now or do you think he will be ahead of Chamakh if he comes?

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=400313.msg5885380#msg5885380 date=1271180023]Vela on the other hand is a victim of Wengernomics a policy that knights younger players and then goodnights them when they lose form! Even when he was on fire in the CC last season he was given no playing time and it got even worse this season! Wenger should give the dude playing time[/quote]You get the point I'm making A-40, the situation becomes clearer when you consider the Bordeaux chairman's statements (after Chamakh's proposed transfer stalled in the summer) he stated clearly that the reason Arsene was unwilling to pay what they wanted or to even enter into negotiation for Chamakh last summer was because Eduardo came back with initial promise last season, even the Bordeaux chairman alluded to this in his statement.

[Quote]
Triaud claimed that Wenger had decided against negotiating further for Chamakh when it became apparent that Eduardo was fully recovered from his dislocated ankle and broken leg.[/quote]Arsene's intention from last season was to bring in another experienced striker into the team because he wasn't sure how Eduardo would come back from his injury, he changed his mind when the initial performances looked like Eduardo had never left, to revisit the issue and get Chamakh now will only drop Eduardo down the pecking order expecially now that Bendtner who was behind him at the start of the season is now ahead. Arsene always uses the Carling cup to blood young players and Vela will likely get Carling Cup roles again next season though I think he is outgrowing that now.
Even if we take Vela out of the equation, whether Debo accepts it or not, Eduardo has become a 4th choice striker at Arsenal at 27 years old and I can't remember the last time Arsenal had a 26+ years old 4th choice striker, or even if other clubs without a youth development orientation such as Arsenal have such, even DB10 at 34 wasn't a 4th choice striker and the arrival of the younger RVP and Reyes spelt the end of a glittering career.

@Gooner

The English media hates us so much they are always gleeful at the first sign of trouble from the emirates even if most of the time it is smoke without fire. The silly media were all applauding after the old guard at manure accepted the Glazer's greek gifts and went ahead to repeat the same when Gillet and Hicks took over at Liverpool, now they are complaining as if they were deceived. Do they want to convince us all that they didn't know the Glazers et al were borrowing to buy up the club? They were too busy rejoicing over getting the likes of Rooney for 25m at 18 years of age and other expensive purchases even though the signs were already there.

Share ownership will change hands at Arsenal but the club's philosophy has somehow successfully transcended its ownership, Arsene broke ranks with Dein who brought him to the club when he decided to toe the line of spending at all costs to win, the media sounds very silly to assume that anyone would want to take over Arsenal now when UEFA already has draft proposals to block repeats of Abramovic's outrageous spending. That war about prudent spending within a club's means is one Arsenal has already won but only few within the media will give Arsene credit for holding on to what he felt was right even when it seemed unsuccessful and unpopular.

Yeeees, Arsene just confirmed in his interview that RVP will be in the squad for Tottenham tommorow.

debosky:
Heheheh. . . .how recent was this contract?  Ok I kid, but a new contract for someone his age is no hindrance to being loaned or sold off.

December 2009, possibly the same week Eduardo's contract was renewed. He can be loaned out, even though I seriously doubt he will be cos Arsene specifically brought him back to become part of the first team picture. Injury and long distance international commitments disrupted the early part of the season and by the time he could be bedded in, we were already in danger of being knocked out of the title race thanks primarily to RVP's injury and secondarily to Eduardo's inability to take the goal scoring mantle.

debosky:
What a laugh - he sold Ade to get Vela playing time and when we had NO STRIKERS he didn't even feature on the BENCH in most games?  You should be able to tell when Wenger is taking the piss just to give journos some articles to write and when he's being serious.

Arsene wasn't taking any piss when he made the statement, it was even said in passing not in direct response to any one's question(which basically shows you how his mind works. Its obvious yu still don't know much about how Arsene's mind works. Ade in his interview stated clearly that the reason why he left for City was when Arsene called him aside and told him he wouldn't be getting playing time at Arsenal if he stayed (why exactly do you think the guy is so bitter that fans claim he left for money?). Selling Ade was basic economics pure and simple just as his demand for a bigger salary using the offer from AC Milan as a bargaining chip was also economics only thing is Bendtner's recent performance has actually justified the sale so Arsene definitely knew what he was doing.

debosky:
Ade was sold because of a poor attitude and issues in the dressing room - if you think it was because he felt Bendtner or Vela were good enough then you are far away in lala land. Ade is still at his peak and was let go because of irreconcilable differences.

Ade had no issues with anyone on the pitch bar his spat with Bendtner, when some words were attributed to Clichy earlier in the season suggesting dressing room issues with Ade, he came out with a statement outrightly denying it. It is a pity Ade was not civil enough to keep a level head after leaving, he was sold due to economic reasons pure and simple.
The question you should ask is this, would 15m have been enough to make Arsene sell him? we also never listed him for transfer, City basically made us an offer Arsene couldn't refuse.

debosky:
You have given no reason for keeping Vela except that he's young, plus your examples don't really hold much substance. Larsson was sold at 21 (despite being in the club since he was 16) Quincy Owusu was sold at 20, Lupoli was sold at 20, Bentley was sold at 21, Muamba was sold at 19/20.
Looking at all those examples, there is more than sufficient reason to believe Vela might be on the way out, even at his 'young' age.

I have given many reasons you fail to see, primarily that Vela's antecedents as an emerging young player speak for themselves, he was brought back after fruitful loan spells, became a full international for his country and going to the world cup at such a young age, has been impressive in his initial appearances for the club. You don't sell a player of such potential, its just not done and Arsene is a master at bringing young players through, it is left to him and Arsene to put their heads together and find out what led to his progress stalling this season.

debosky:
Eduardo and Chamakh are different types of players - one is small the other is larger. If anything, Chamakh is closer to Vela in stature than Eduardo so if it is in terms of removing a similar player, Vela would go.
Without a doubt, Eduardo has proven himself far more than Vela has done, and can in all respects contribute more to Arsenal NOW than a Vela whose head is in the clouds.

You are beginning to argue blindly here Debo, how can you compare Vela to Chamakh in stature? Eduardo and Vela are just about the same height (between 5'9 and 5'10) infact Eduardo and Vela are almost the same type of player only that Vela is younger and faster. When I refer to Chamakh's arrival leading to Eduardo's exit, I'm only referring to the pecking order of strikers not in terms of any playing similarities in the player.
Arshavin leading the line with Eduardo fit and on the bench or playing out wide is the most damning indictment of Eduardo this season, it is an aberration that should never have happened.
The way Arsene treats his young players is totally different from the way he treats older players, up till last year he still had it in his mind that Song would be a CB (and I still won't be surprised if he still moves him there in the future as he still continues to mention it in passing that he has all the attributes to play there), he has said the trio of Wilshere, Vela and Theo are all going to end up central but he continues to play them wide meaning he still sees them as developing players and I am of the opinion he plans on Wilshere ultimately replacing Cesc in the future.
Eduardo at 27 can however not be said to be a developing player can he?
I have never looked at this issue from the point of preference from one player, it is a bit lame to accuse me of loving Vela too much, I have blasted Theo on here and at the same time expressed the opinion that his pace remains an attribute few other players have and which any manager would want in his team, I have supported both Denilson and Diaby who are the boo crowd's favorite, I have only looked at the issue from a manager's point, on one hand you have an up and coming talent on low wages yu're developing while on the other you have a player supposed to be a veteran yu're counting on to deliver the goods which he has not done(for whatever reason that might be) you now have to go out to buy another player to fill the gap, in order to balance the books there isn't really much of a decision to be made between the two is there?

Not to worry, summer will soon be here and it will unfold before our very eyes, remember that Vela is going to the world cup also but Eduardo is not? if he goes and plays a blinder for Mexico do you really think Arsene would still want to sell him?

debosky:
Duduspace

For all your love for Vela, again I repeat he is the most likely of the 4 strikers to leave next season. Eduardo has just signed a new extended deal and Wenger will not release him just now - on the other hand, Vela is very likely to go (at least on loan) given his indifferent performances and his indiscipline.

I hope he stays, but without a doubt, Eduardo as a proven international striker that, even in this 'poor' season, still scored crucial goals for the team and made assists when he couldn't score, will likely be retained in the long run.

You refuse to see this because of your admiration for Vela, but that is understandable. In  a clear examination of who has done more for Arsenal's season, Eduardo comes up clearly. Yes he's had more playing time, but no one can fault his attitude, his commitment and his past record shows that he can still do it at the highest level.

Debo, it is you who is having sympathy for Eduardo, Vela is also one of those who recently signed a long time contract. All it took to flog Ade off was a single below par season in which he still averaged about one every other game, even though Arsene still played him in the semis of the UCL the previous season all because Arsene had come to the conclusion that the difference between him and Bendtner wasn't much (even though his case was further complicated by his fat salary and the arm twisting that went towards getting it) and keeping him around would prevent the likes of Vela and Bendtner getting games. Wenger was so bold to say recently that he sold Ade in order to give the likes of Vela more playing time.

I don't know how much Eduardo is earning but even with your sympathy for him, you should know that Chamakh is coming to take no other person's place but his, the worst that can happen to Vela is another loan spell if his head still isn't screwed on tight in Arsene's opinion, Wenger believes in youngsters not being too much in a hurry to break into the first team, remember how long it took before he sold the likes of Hoyte, Larsson and Bentley? they were all sold when they were about 23/24 and Flamini tarried long before breaking into the team at 24 but if Eduardo isnt gone in the summer, expect the Senderos treatment for him next season.

@Slim

I get your point and would not want to get on the back of any of our players. I feel as much sympathy for Dudu as the next person but truth be told, he didn't get going when the club needed him just like Berba needed to step up with Rooney out. 2 players have led our line creditably this season, RVP who was having a season only comparable to Henry in his prime before injury cut him down and B52 who showed that what technique and guile can't get you can be obtained with all round general hustle and using your God given physical attributes.

We wouldn't have been talking about Chamakh now because if Eduardo had the impact B52 had when he came back, we would have been the team to overtake in the run-in but now when Chamakh comes both B52 and RVP are already ahead of him and he definitely cannot be ahead of Chamakh on the salary he is coming in on. We also need to give playing time to our upcoming players like Theo, Vela and Wilshere in form of cameos in sub appearances when winding up games but what purpose exactly would the giving of cameos to the likes of Eduardo achieve?

Most teams in the league have 4 strikers with the first 2 being the main guys (Rooney/Berba, Drogba/Anelka e.t.c) and the remaining 2 being the upcoming strikers (Kalou/Sturridge, Marcheda/Welbeck) but some go as far as having a 3rd proven striker like Owen but having 4 old guys would be clogging up the assembly line and stifling upcoming talent, and that is why it is increasingly looking like there is little room for Eduardo come next season (barring some unforeseen circumstance like us not getting Chamakh) as the other 3 can lead the line in our new formation as well as partner themselves or more petite strikers like Eduardo/Theo/Vela in a 4-4-2.

slimshay:
First off, Dudu stop continuing that staement that Eduardo failed thats why Wengers dropped him from leading the line. No he actually got inured again. Eduardo had the time had gotten into the early season VP stride. A lot of the goals we scored in his period had come through him prompting Wenger to make the comparism. And adding that all was left was for him to start scoring his own a la VP, but alas Colin was missing him more. So he had to return to med school.

I no gree this one Slim, I know yu're the one person on this forum who roots for all our players, but lets call a spade a spade, Eduardo was mostly during this period, he was either always on the bench or playing wide (the 2 places Vela could have been, though Debosky rightly lays the blame that Vela possibly has been unserious or probably he couldn't even get into the team because he didn't have a proper pre-season while the early part of the season involved a lot of international travel for him).

When RVP got injured in November after the Wolve's match,  Eduardo was immediately drafted central (showing he was next in line in the striker pecking order) against Sunderland a match we lost (though there were also off colour performances from the likes of Ramsey that day coupled with the initial shock of RVP's injury we thought that was a one-off), Vela then made his only start of the season (for the first team) in the central role against Standard Liege (a match we won 2-0) with Eduardo returning to that role against Chelsea which we of course lost 3-0 with him not offering much in way of power or pace against Terry and Carvalho.

It was at this point Arsene experimented with Arshavin centrally when Eduardo missed (a single game, as he was back on the bench in the next), he got two goals in consecutive games (Stoke and Liverpool) and Eduardo then had some wide forward and sub appearances, subsequently Arsene chose not to change a winning team (or at least what he considered his best team) till Bendtner came back and showed there was a difference with him playing there offering the physical presence the others could not (after Arshaving had run himself ragged there). 
The only other game Vela started in this period was the match against Olympiakos away where we basically started a Carling cup squad with a then erratic Theo just back from injury leading the line and generally messing things up.

I wouldn't call that being given an opportunity and I don't think Arsene actually put his trust in Vela at all so far this season, all a player can do is play well when he is called upon and in my opinion Vela has done that but I can't say the same for Eduardo, he was a made player before we bought him and he was bought to deliver not develop. We all know about the injury and all but that excuse is starting to wear thin. If I were manager and needed to sell a player to bring in another player this summer, the first name on my list would be Eduardo, at the time we needed him this season he simply didn't live up to expectation.

Eduardo has started 17 games with 14 subs appearances while Vela has only started 5 with 9 subs appearances, how can anyone say he has been given an opportunity to prove himself?

doyin13:
Kai. . .Arsenal don suffer oo.

Despite being only a few points from top
Fergie no even put them for mind in his interview
after the draw at Blackburn.

Wetin concern us with Fergie and him club wey don run down?

dayokanu:
In the last 5 seasons we have heard it that " Arsenal would win trophies NEXT season"

The team of next seasons

Care to make a bet? whoever loses will not sign in to Nairaland for a month.   though I don't think yu'll want to log on much if we win anyway.

This season sef get as e be, see as everyone is afraid to claim their team will win it, even chelski guys dey fear to claim the thing. 

but yu all heard it here first, Arsenal is winning the PL league next season for sure. I stand by this statement even if God forbid 3/4 of our team get the Eduardo treatment. such is the strength in depth we are acquiring in that team.

Messi is the better player, he is a better team player than CR9 is. Apart from being a dynamic individual player, he can also bring others into play.

@Presido1

We don't need to bother about these ones, they always find a way to cock things up all by themselves, they don't even need a rampant Messi or sensational strikes from Robben, imagine an already relegated Pompey beating you 2-0 How low can a club get? I tire for the spuds.