₦airaland Forum

I thank God Debo created this thread and not DK, I thank God the haterz thot we would be out of the top four instead we moved up to the top 3 and left that dubious honour to maedan's team.

By this time next season we shall surely be in the top 2 and DK will be unable to post his infamous empty trophy cupboard picture cos we woulda won somethin, while Sauron will be unable to post on our thread cos by then Manure's debt would be approaching £1b.   

chamotex:
DUDU, when are you going to quit writing all these epistles?
No one cares about any financial shitzos or whatever, win a blodclart trophy and thats all.
You can write a report from now till the end of Nairaland, that wont change NADA.
If Wenger doesn't do something drastic soon, I cant see how y'all will WIN anything next season.

Eff the financial status, youth policy and all other shenanigans, HISTORY dont give a toss about all that bollocks . . .
What HISTORY is telling us is that ARSENAL have been trophyless for the last 5 seasons . . . FACT!!!

Money or no money is not that relevant . . . . The money Real Madrid spent this season still might not guarantee them a trophy this year.
And look at how they crashed out of the SECOND ROUND of the CL like a tenant caught hammering the Landlord's wife by the LANDLORD.

What I'm saying is, your financial situation doesn't guarantee you success.
WIN a bloody Trophy FFS and stop all your essay writings

Which one concern you if I write essay or gospel or epistle? why you self no go write Hadith about your club?   
abi I no suppose stick up for my club and its insistence on doing things without jeorpardising the club's future?
Whoever told you that history is static? Arsenal have never lost to Tottenham in the last 10 year was that not the history last year? what is the history now?

dayokanu:
The lack of money you used as an excuse for Arsenals failure has been blown out by Lvan Gaal

As the players on the field cost us 40m, While the ones who qualified Arsenal for the CL final in 2006 wre bought for an amount in excess of 70m, that was 4 year ago

I no get time now DK, there are some Goldman Sachs like financial magomago manipulations in that your post.  You didn't state what currency you used to calculate the cost of Bayern's team and purposely inflated some of ours.

But aside from teams put out on any given day, what of the squad as a whole? what of the players on the bench? everyone knows now that it is not about your first 11 any longer with the amount of games there is to play. My position has never even been about all other teams, it is you lot who have made it out to be that way.

Our direct competitors are in England, and that is where most of our challenge lies as we spend no way near Chelsea and manure, Liverpool tried spending with them and did have some initial success but everyone sees where they are now in terms of their financial situation and competitiveness.
A stupid and unnecessary move by Barcelona could well have given Inter the cup this season but Inter always had been near the fringes anyway, for all you know our getting Chamakh and/or another 1 or 2 players of his class might be the difference between Arsenal and a quadruple just like Barcelonal last year.

This comparison of Arsenal to every other club out there is unfair, compare us to our direct competitors in our league and yu'll find out we're presently punching above our weight, the situation in Germany/Spain/France is a whole lot different.

dayokanu:
SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT


Pls GAYYNERS for the CL finals. I take God Beg you support Inter Milan. Abeg.

God wont spoil your hardwork. After all Bayerns hardwork to the finals for you to now bring una badluck come.

No be fight, Na beg I dey beg.

Where is the team y'all have been supporting for the past 6 seasons

You better be careful this man, your noise don dey too much o , and na only me dey support Bayern for the final, I didn't claim to speak for all Arsenal fans. Just that Jose is too arrogant for my liking but if him win am sha, good luck to am only say we no go hear word again.
This season self end one kain, I'm now supporting Chelsea to win the PL because of Sauron and Manure while supporting Bayern to win the UCL because I can't stand Mourinho, what a dismal end to the season.
We must win something next season, let the transfers begin.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=400313.msg5972030#msg5972030 date=1272554431]@Dayokanu
Na so we see am oh. 5 years without a trophy is over-achievement at Arsenal. Duduspace is on some Hypnotic ish[/quote]Relative to our recent history post Arsene, its a step back but in terms of spending relative to the opposition, definitely overachievement.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=400313.msg5972030#msg5972030 date=1272554431]@Duduspace
When last did that same Inter backline make it past the UCL 2nd round? Even if Inter have more resources who where the stars at Porto? Jorge Costa? Costinha,Carlos Alberto,Maniche,McCarthy,Derlei? Stop excusing Wenger's mediocrity with lack of resources[/quote]Have you also considered that they've added Sneijder and Etoo into the mix? All they needed to do yesterday was to not conceed 2 goals. They simply gave Barca a taste of what Arsenal face every PL game week and some writers are already talking of Barca lacking a plan B.
Anti football won yesterday and it wasn't nice to see for me personally and I never thot the day would come that I would be supporting DK's goons in the final of any competition.

dayokanu:
The total of transfer money we paid for our starting eleven in Lyon was only 40 million:

And was it only that starting 11 that played all the games yu've played this season? cos if you apply that same logic to Arsenal, then the squad that made the final of the UCL in 05/06 was less than 35m.

v3:
Dudu,
I pray you see the light asap or are you Wenger's love child in disguise? Why do you keep covering his blunders when you know they've cost us the league on several occasions?
Now the problems are visible enough even to the blind,why don't u acknowledge em and quit this "keep the faith" balderdash you're always on about.

You can't be sleeping when you home is on fire man, wake the eff up and see what you refuse to see.

That Arsene has made mistakes I will accept, but that the man has overachieved with what he has been given is plain to see if yu're not blinded to the obvious.
A quick comparison of what Mourinho achieved yesterday and what Arsene did in getting to the finals in 05/06
Just a quick analysis of the back line.

[Quote]
I’ll remind you all of the back 4 that Wenger managed to get through the knock out stages and to a CL final…

LB – Flamini (A midfielder who played at LB)

CB- Senderos (Rookie CB in his first season….we all know how good he is)

CB – Sol Campbell (World Class player at the time)

RB – Manu Eboue (Rookie RB at the time  in his first season)


Let us look at Mourinho’s back 4 that played both legs and have been playing for him this season…


Zanetti – Legendary full back and arguably the best Right back of our time

Lucio – Legendary Cenre back, World Cup winner and multiple titles

Samuel – Experienced Argentine Intl, once considered the best CB in the Wolrd in his Roma days

Maicon – Best right back in the World Today.


The players on Mourinho’s bench & squad are better than the players Wenger worked with…Chivu(CB), Materrazzi(CB), Santon(LB) & Cordoba(RB)[/quote]Now someone might ask me how come we don't have this players, my response then would be for such a person to consider the cost that went towards assembling such a team and to point out that team has won the Serie A for the past two seasons. When you then add Etoo and Sneijder into the mix, you have ability and experience that Arsenal cannot match (at present). Barcelona basically shot themselves in the foot exchanging Etoo for Zlatan and giving Inter awoof 44m in the process to further strenghten their squad (and that is what you get when the law of diminishing returns sets in while purchasing players just for the sake of it) .
People should learn to compare Apples with Apples and not with oranges. Our financial situation improves daily, and our squad can only get better from hereon.

debosky:
Like v3 said, God spare us till that time - I will be here to quote your comments and hear the excuses you will make then.

Wenger will sign at most ONE player who can add anything to this team - any more signings will be more of selling the unrealisable 'future' nonsense. We've seen it before and we will see it again. Even though the one will be added, at least ONE player will leave and we will be right back where we started if not worse.

Wenger should simply shut up, do his job and talk with results - we are sick and tired of the same empty comments with no action to back it up.

Get well? If that means becoming satisfied with this mediocrity like you are then no thanks.

I state it again, anyone listening to the rubbish Wenger says is fooling himself. He will always give nice sound bites, but we will never see it in action. Judge him by his actions and don't be fooled by the same regurgitated nonsense.

To be honest, if there was some magic I could do to snap you out of this spell of disatisfaction with Arsenal I would, but its really not all doom and gloom and I really wish you could see that.

dayokanu:
Thats just splitting hairs

Eboue would be 23 in 2 weeks time as at the time the matches were played

In the same vein of reasoning as you, Lahm is 26, Butt is 35, Schweini 25, Olic is 30 which still lowers the average age of the bayern team below Arsenals that played the semi finals or the finals.

You said it here sometimes back that 21yrs is the threshold yet you are picking players above it any player over 21 is not a youth according to GAYYners on this thread.

The bottom line is the Bayern team that qualified for the CL finals is way younger than Arsenals

To be honest Dayo, I didn't put up the ages, you did and I do agree with you about Lahm/Schweini/Olic's ages, what then would you say about Cesc who was 18 during the SF and 19 during the Finals?
I'm not the one trying to disprove your having a youth team, you are the one claiming Arsenal don't have one. I still believe the average age of that Arsenal SF squad would be younger than that of the team Bayern put out yesterday but I also accept you have more players 21 and under in your team.
Is there a middle ground to be reached here?

debosky:
Unbelievable - that ANYONE in his right mind will believe the nonsense Wenger is saying is a clear sign of history continuing to repeat itself.

The same Wenger who claimed we 'had to buy' a striker in January, only to cop out saying he was waiting for Bendtner's injury a few weeks later?

Which season have we not heard these same bland comments? Wenger will 'sign' someone - maybe one player and let another two go, leaving us weaker than we were in the beginning.

Not so unbelievable that a despondent person will be unable to distinguish between "We are looking" and "We are talking", get well soon Debo.

v3:
Agreed, Melo woulda been a waste altogether but whats stopped him from "going out of his shell" to get players Chamakh,Given and the others?
AM & DM wise, Song & Nasri have outshone him this season (I have my reasons for NOT wanting to mention Denilson). . .He can't tackle, isn't dominating aerially. .takes too much time than allowed on the ball, EASILY dispossessed (bad attribute for a MF), EVEN Eastmond bossed the MF better than him in the game against Wigan

Diaby has his positives and negatives but at present I think he is a good squad member to have and funny enough I think he is actually still improving, some players don't really get it all together until they are quite matured. A good example older heads point at is Zizou who was said to be a frustrating player like Diaby until he got into his mid 20s when he blossomed at Juventus. My early memories of him at Euro 96 were mixed but I remember then that my elder brother didn't like him and a younger Del Pierro was the star of the 96 Juve team. Zizou really came into his own in France 98 when he was 26.
If he continues improving, he'll be immense and I don't expect him to be any worse than he has been this season. Definitely not one I'll mark down for the chop, but don't let me get started on Theo lest his supporters descend on me.

v3:
Let's see the so-called "new signings" he makes. . God keep us alive till then.

Exciting isn't ? though I still don't expect more than 3 signings at the most but they'll be good ones, not sure about known names though.

dayokanu:
The Arsenal team that played Villareal in Spain

Lehmann(37), Eboue(23), Toure(26), Campbell(32), Flamini(22), Hleb(25), Fabregas(19), Silva(30), Ljungberg(29), Reyes(23), Henry(29)

The only difference being Pires and Cole vs Reyes and Flamini

Still In the Arsenal lineup Only one player was 22 years and less, In the Bayern line up we have 3.

In that Arsenal lineup- We have Fabregas and Ashley cole from the youth team 2 players

In the Bayern line up we have Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Muller, Badstuber, Contento 5 players


Contento is the LB and 19years. He just got a pro contract in January with Mehmut Ekici

Alaba has already been capped by Austria and he is a prodigous midfielder. Played as a LB in Florence where the rascist Italian fans were booing him but he hardly put a foot wrong.

In the final, The changes that we can have baring injuries are Mario Gomez(25), Pranjic(28) Ribery (26) is out

Nope, Eboue, Flamini and Reyes were all 22 at that time making it 4 players 22 and under. Toure was 25 and Hleb was 24.

dayokanu:
Alaba played the game in Florence vs Fiorentina which was the most difficult game we played in the knockout stage.

Arsenal team that played Barcelona in the 2006 final

Lehmann(37yrs), Eboue(23), Toure(26), Campbell(32yrs), Cole(26), Pires(33) Silva(30yrs), Fabregas(19), Hleb(25yrs), Ljungberg(29), Henry(29)

Average Age= 28

Bayern team that played last night

Butt(36), lahm(27), Van Buyten(32),  Badstuber(21), Contento (19), Van Bommel( 33), Schweinsteiger(26), Robben(26), Altintop (27), Muller(20), Olic (31)

Average age = 27.0

In the Arsenal lineup Only one player was 22 years and less, In the Bayern line up we have 3.

In that Arsenal lineup- We have Fabregas and Ashley cole from the youth team 2 players

In the Bayern line up we have Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Muller, Badstuber, Contento 5 players

Lets wait and see how you line up in the final first, don't jump the gun. Can yu do the same age analysis for the Arsenal team that played the 2nd leg semi final against Villareal?
Due credit to Munich though, I must admit, you have some exciting youth coming through the ranks but then yu're still in the position Manure was in England before the introduction of the 90 minute rule and that is why yu'll always be a power in Germany when you can always get the best talents from most other clubs in Germany. Muller, Badstuber and Kroos are definitely going to be exceptional. I havent seen much of Alaba, but then he is still young.

dayokanu:
Dobo, v3 and Cristalz

Who do I have to bribe to have the emphatic Bayern result on the front page of NL. When we always have results for lesser clubs there

Leave Debo out of this, he is still drowning his sorrows drinking some palmy with Arshavin. He'll get his optimism back as soon as Arsene announces our signings for the season.

dayokanu:
Dudu,

Did you see quality youths on display last night in the CL semi finals? Not the bunch of retards you have in your club.

Arshavin now regrets ever joining Arsenal, But I am waiting for the Emirates fans to pounce on in like they did to Adebayor when he did the same thing but I guess there is a difference, One is Black the other is not

Which quality youth? where has Alaba been since the start of this competition? Besides,that Munich team is a dinosaur compared to the Arsenal team that got to the final of the UCL in 05/06. The likes of RVP, Cesc and Flamini were spring chickes then, even Eboue then was under 24.

v3:
Dudu,

Forget the free lunch, Sugar daddy, Arab money talk for a second, if Le Prof had say a 70mill transfer kitty manna from above. . what do you "honestly" think he'll do with it?

Here are your options to choose from.

A - Sign a player on free transfer?
B - Bargain, Bargain n Bargain till he can get a 7-8million max buy?
C - Find & sign some 14yr old and claim he's the next Zidane,Ronnie,Pele?
D - Save the money in his piggy bank and promote fledglings to the first team?

Hmmmnh, to be honest I can't say, he did go out and shell out for the likes of Thierry, Kanu, Reyes and others before the transfer market went all crazy, his position has always been about buying at the right price. Just imagine if we had spent 20m for Melo last season and he turned in a stinker of a season like he did at Juve?

v3:
If at 23-24 Diaby can't marshall a midfield the way Song(DM wise)/Nasri(AM wise) does. . what's the point of keeping him around much any longer?

If Diaby had played like he did last season, I would have seconded you in this but then he did put on that impressive run of games mid-season before reverting to something only a little bit better than last season's form. Definitely one to keep around in the squad at present if he goes on from there however competition might do him some good.

v3:
One more thing, please forget the article by Wenger you just posted, it's just another attempt to get the English Press off his back. I won't be surprised if the likely new signings are ACTUALLY contract renewals  

I don't think so v3, he couldn't have made a clearer statement of intent than that, this is not "We will" but "We are" though I'm sure Chamakh is definitely one of those to be announced soon.

v3:
Wenger has had more than enough time to "tango" with us on this youth policy issue, yet some choose to cover his slip-ups.
One question though, you think the likes of Sunu,Sanchez,Coquelin et al can take on the already established Drogbas, Torres, Lamps,Essiens?
How many of those kids will EVER experience first team football?
If the so-called "over 35's/pensioners" retire from football, what STOPS their clubs from replacing em with much more experienced 25-28 players? Forget Chelsea promoting 5 youngsters to their first team, they would STILL enter the meerkat to get more experience.

I expect they will, but not on the scale at at which they've done before (except for Man Shitty of course) but then we already have decent quality coming through the ranks now and we can make up the difference in the transfer market (just like Barca and RM, Barca only need spend 44m and still have a better squad overall than RM who spent nigh 200m).
Maybe the likes of Sunu/Sanchez/Coquelin can't but the likes of Clichy/Cesc/Song/Diaby should be able to match them and better them soon as they approach their peak.

v3:
We can't best Chelsea,Man U (forget Liverpool) mano-a-mano, what makes you think you can best them in the TW? Are we the only team afraid of spending into debt? Why can't Usmanov or Croaker just step-up and buy the club? Why can't Arsene be fired? Why do we fail at the tail end of the season?
Questions need to be answered and the axe needs to start chopping off heads soon
ENOUGH IS BLOODY ENOUGH!

Because there is usually no free lunches anywhere (there must be some sheikhs or Abramovic footing the bill or debt in the case of Manure and Liverpool). Such free lunches are also getting scarce with the generall financial downturn. Animals still twitch for a while after their heads have been chopped off, but in due time die they surely shall.

Now, this aint duduspace speaking, but a former chairman who was bought out.

[Quote]
[size=14pt]FORMER MAN UNITED CHAIRMAN HITS OUT[/size]
Glazer's plan "unsustainable"

Former Manchester United chairman Sir Roy Gardner has denounced the Glazer family's debt-laden business plan at Old Trafford, claiming it is not "a sustainable model".

Gardner was United chairman at the time of the Glazer takeover in 2005, when he put his name to a statement saying the American owners of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers NFL franchise were being "too aggressive" with their plans.

United are now reported to have debts of around £716 million, the fans have launched a hugely successful and visual 'Green and Gold' campaign in protest at the Glazers and the Red Knights, a consortium of wealthy United fans, are preparing a takeover bid.

Asked about United's position now Gardner said: "It is no different to what I said at the time. I did not think it was a sustainable model." [/quote]Keep the faith peeps, our way will win out in the end no matter how long it takes, according to reports, Lady Nina's shares will change hands soon but the ownership status quo will remain as neither Kroenke or Usmanov will buy her out to take their holding to a level leading to a mandatory takeover approach which is not guaranteed of being successful anyway.

The clearest Le Prof has been about improving the squad, so we can basically expect to know our squad for next season before the WC kicks off bar possible injuries during the tournament.

[Quote]
[size=14pt]'Wenger talking to 'definite transfer targets'[/size]
Arsène Wenger has been talking to his "definite transfer targets" and hopes to do business before the World Cup begins.

The Arsenal manager has been linked with a number of new players in recent weeks after his side dropped out of the reckoning in the Champions League and Premier League. Speaking ahead of the weekend game against Manchester City, Wenger was naturally not forthcoming on the names involved but did suggest he wanted to recruit before the tournament began in South Africa on June 11.

"I have definite transfer targets and I have been talking to people but I will not tell you to who," he told the Arsenal Matchday Programme.

The Frenchman then revealed there was a desire to bring in players ahead the summer tournament. He went on: "I believe the earlier you settle your team the better it is and the less anxiety you have."

Wenger added that he would not sign a player on their strength of their performance in South Africa "unless there is an exception there that nobody knew before. Also post-World Cup the prices are always artificial.

"Overall I feel it is very dangerous to buy on [the strength of] the tournament because sometimes there are players who are fresh and have not played the whole season. Everyone can have three weeks of glory as a football player. Ten years is a bit different."[/quote]

debosky:
Yet Cesc is not gooner enemy number 1 for wanting to play in a bigger side?

Arshavin of course will be too pessimistic for your liking - he fails to toot the 'we are close to winning' horn (which is disproved year after year as pure bollocks) and can criticise himself frankly (as he has done) while clearly pointing out the team deficiencies.

When he said the side were 2-3 players short of winning a title, the team went ahead to confirm his prophetic words by collapsing like a pack of cards. People were critiquing him then, but was he right or wrong?

What are you saying here Debo? wasn't he part of the same team that collapsed? what exactly has he done this season that gives him the right talk down on the rest of the team? if anything, he has been one of the flops of this season. I'll make a simple comparison of his performance compared to B52, Diaby and Fabregas here.
                Starts        Subs appearances       Goals       Assists
Arshavin          31                6                  11           6
Fabregas         35                1                  19           13
Bendtner         21                10                 12           6
Diaby              33                5                   7            5

Now, you convince me what this bozo has done this season to give him the right to talk down on any one in the team, the likes of Bendtner have outperformed him despite playing less games,  Even the guys who have almost shed their blood on the pitch like Cesc, Vermaelen and Sol have not come out with such negativity during the season.
Is he the coach? is he not paid to be a player? why should he be disrespectful to the club and fans that pay him?
Besides, why all the noise about signings? wasn't he bought in for experience in the team and didn't he know the squad that existed b4 he was bought?

He is a very pessimistic and negative personality and maybe that is why Russia didn't go to the world cup, someone who would go ahead and encourage an opposing team while his team is top of the premiership by saying they are still the mathematical champions when they haven't even won their game in hand is the very definition of negativity, couldn't even appreciate his colleagues for the work they've done to get to the top of the premiership in the first instance.
I repeat, did you see the likes of Scholes, Giggs or Rooney do that when Manure went on top briefly after beating Spurs?

debosky:
All Arshavin was saying is that 'playing for the best side in the world, even for a season, would be the pinnacle of my career'.

There are fewer true words that can be uttered by a player with desire to be the very best.

For those choosing to read soundbites, he expressed his SORROW at Arsenal's loss to Barca, showing his deep felt feelings for Arsenal. Instead of focussing on the truth of his comments, some fans will be seeking more 'yes men' who will make silly comments on Arsenal.com about 'focus' and 'potential' only to throw it away a few games later.

I'll take the plain truth any day over the meaningless bunk we keep getting from Wenger day in day out.

Yu're being 2 faced here, why exactly then were you on Ade's case when he made those statements about Milan? has something that you claimed was poison for the goose now suddenly become ice cream for the tolotolo?
IMO, Arshavin's case is even worse off than Ade, at the least AC Milan had made a move for Ade with the club convincing him to stay, what is all this whoring after Barca that Arshavin is on about? they haven't even bidded for him.
Compare what he's done to the class and finese with which Cesc has handled Barca's shameful pursuit of him despite his obvious family ties to Barcelona.

Abeg Arshavin can go to hell, if not that we need to keep the core of this squad around both for squad depth and experience, I would have advocated selling him immediately and he has been too pessimistic for my liking.
Even Ade wasn't this bad cos AC Milan had actually made a move for him. Arshavin might just have made himself Gooner enemy number 1 with this statement credited to him, its totally unnecessary and uncalled for.

dayokanu:
LIAR. Korbasiyoon, Aliediere, Justin hoyte, Djorou, Arturo Lupoili, Owusu Abeyie and other Ballon D'ors were developed by wenGAY or what are those?

I remember in 2004 or thereabout when Man utd beat Arsenal in a Carling cup match 1-0 with Arsene fielding a bunch of retarded teenegers.

Can you please also help us list out the hundreds of players that have not made it through the Barcelona youth system? someone recently reminded you of Haruna Babangida and Gbenga Okunowo.

dayokanu:
How did Peter Ogaba as a 26year old boy pass for 13years at China 85?

Nigerian wonder I guess,  
but is this really true? besides, I knew Song as an 18 year old and he has improved as a player year on year and also grown physically but Kanu never really reached the heights he reached in the period 1994 - 1999. (Still remember me and my younger brother running around the house after that goal against Brazil in Atlanta).

dayokanu:
Tell me again!!!! If dudu sees this he might kill someone

Kill someone ke? the only person whose life is in danger here is moi from disgruntled Arsenal fans like Debo and Dr. Kit.

debosky:
Ah I see - did the debts exist before Wenger came to 'save' us from it or was it self inflicted? Wasn't the Emirates supposed to 'help us compete' yet we are only getting worse.

Are you griping about the emirates too now?   talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water.

debosky:
You can do a lot of things, but you can't twist my statements. 4 years were obviously a FAILURE for me - I declared the previous season over in November - go back and see if any other gooner could do that. 4 years were a failure, I only gave the manager an additional year as grace for the previous successes, and now, I am simply waiting for him to rundown his contract since he has shown no signs of correcting his flaws.

debosky:
You on the other hand think 5 years is a hiccup, so clearly you need another 5 years before you'll even begin to consider failure.

Now yu're the one inferring things I've not said even though the same statement you quoted already states my views about the team, I was only referring to what Ibime posted earlier.

debosky:
Right - the money talks that ensured we won't win the premiership this season right?
Oh we saved 10m but we might still finish 4th - what a sound investment.

That is the only thing you think is responsible but I see a whole lot of other things. It is just not about 1 or 2 players we didnt buy it is about the squad depth as a whole. RVP's injuries have shown what happens when yu're depending on 1 or 2 players to win silverware for you.

debosky:
Has he played himself into contention at Everton? That should give you your answer.
Like Kit said, I don tire, enough of these exchanges.

How can you play yurself into contention when yu're out injured?  

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5958841#msg5958841 date=1272368676]How do we know Alex Song wasn't 15 when he claimed he was 8 years of age on arrival in France?
I hope you realise 1995 was 15 years ago. . . . .Are you saying Kanu was 25 in 1995 which makes him 40 now? U gotta be high on shekpe.[/quote]Haba, that must have been done by some American wonder to pass off a 15 year old as an 8 year old. Do you recall how you looked as an 8 year old? puberty has not even set in by then. And I didn't say for certain that Kanu was 25 in 1995, I only gave a range, one thing we are all agreed on though is that he couldn't have been 18, Some people like Avram Grant however seem to agree with that estimate you gave up there.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5958841#msg5958841 date=1272368676]By the same token, the fact that Gallas, Almunia and Silvestre are all 32 should not make Wenger to use YOUTH POLICY as his excuse.
Cheese n Rice, Ajax went unbeaten in their league and they won UCL beating the almighty AC Milan. . . . . .Wenger's 'YOUTH' players couldn't even beat Stoke FC and were tortured to death by the ordinary Man City team in the Carling Cup.
The $64,000 question is. . . . .Has Wenger's YOUTH POLICY paid off after 5 YEARS?[/quote]There is no excuse here, just an acceptance of the reality that:
1. We are not spending as much as you lot (Both in terms of transfers and Wages)
2. We are going for bargains while developing youth (only a confused person or someone with an hidden agenda like yourself would not acknowledge that much)

How the scenario develops from hence is out of anyone's control bar the board, Arsene, and any other Abramovic/Glazer type personalities out there.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5958606#msg5958606 date=1272366590]By the same token, Toure, Eboue, Adebayor and Song falsified their ages as well and there were more Africans in Arsenal(in the past 5 seasons) than Ajax FC had in 95. In that light, the average age in Arsenal would be lowered more because they had more age-falsifying Africans.[/quote]Why mention players who have already left the club? Alex Song moved to France as an 8 year old and played in all levels of french football from U16, but that begs the question anyway. the point I was making was that the average age of that team in reality couldn't have been 23 with Kanu then claiming to be 18 and Finidi claiming to be 24 but even if we neglect all that, the fact remains that was a very unique team which is yet to be replicated.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5958606#msg5958606 date=1272366590]The Ajax team of 95 won CL and went unbeaten in their league with a ridiculous average age.
VDS(25), Reizeger(22), Frank De Boer(25), Rijkaard(32), Seedorf(19), Edgar Davids(22), Litmanen(24), Finidi(24), Ronaldo De Boer(25), Overmars(22)
Kluivert(18), Kanu(18).
This young team won 3 league titles in a row and played in 2 back to back European finals(winning one) and losing the other to Juventus via penalty shoot-out. For Wenger to convince anyone he's into a spastic YOUTH POLICY, he has to build a team like the Ajax side and not fool HIMSELF with Gallas(32), Rosicky(29), Silvestre(32), Campbell(35), Almunia(32) and Arshavin(28).[/quote]Well, the fact that Rijkaard was 32 illustrated the point that they were not all young, and I'm sure all true gunners know that a lot of the people you mention up there are already on their way out anyway and that is bound to further reduce overall the average age of the Arsenal squad. It takes time to BUILD in case you forget that is the whole point.

dayokanu:
Dont you know Rijkaard age has been factored into the[b] average ages?[/b]
Like you dont have Almunia, Gallas, Arshavin and co in your starting 11.
Plus Eboue, Song, ho possibly added X yrs like Kanu and Finidi

What average age exactly are we talking about?
1. The team that played in the final?
2. The squad as a whole?

anyway, those analysis are a bit irrelevant, you know very well that only that team has done it so young in history so it was a very unique team, even Ajax has been unable to replicate that in 15 years and counting. So, if an Arsenal team does it with an avg age of say 23/24, it still would be a triumph of youth. The avg age of Fergie's fledglings was about 24.  And the average age of the Ajax team that played in the final was 23. Arsenal can comfortably match that with 6 -7 of the consistent performers all U23 at present.

debosky:
5 years with no trophy is a HICCUP and overachievement?? My goodness - we might truly need to wait for 15 years to win at this case.

5 years during which we have largely paid the club's debts off using money we've saved by not spending on the kinds of signings y'all want to see and who coulda actually made the difference.

debosky:
Dude - ANYONE who accepts 5 years of no trophies as being only a HICCUP is clearly satisfied with mediocrity - if 5 years is a hiccup, you need 10 years for failure at the minimum. If that doesn't define mediocrity, I don't know what will. Those are your words not mine - the worst trophy run in 20 years is a HICCUP.

From historical sources, seems you accepted 4 years, don't see much of a difference between 5 and 4. With what I see of Arsenal's youth policy though, I'm willing to actually wait 2 years more based on where we are at . We will definitely win the PL within that period with or without Arsene.(and I mean the PL and not just any mickey mouse cup) with the quality of players we're developing.

debosky:
What rubbish - was Kolo worse than Silvestre?? How you can excuse such nonsense is beyond me. Someone who was part of the invincibles, Arsenal through and through was sold off and we kept a washed up reject from our rivals? If this isn't mediocre, I don't know what is. Were there no CBs in the entire world that we had to buy Utd REJECTS?? I can't even understand what you're excusing here.

Money talks, we got Silvestre for .5m and sold Kolo for 15m and got Vermaelen for 10m. I'm sure if there is an idiot somewhere out there willing to take Silvestre for anything above 5m, then Arsene would be on it like a flash.

debosky:
That is an excuse - how many players simply 'walk out' on Utd?? What about the players making a difference for Utd now - Giggs and Scholes?? Everyone who is an Arsenal fan knows that one of Wenger's biggest ever mistakes was selling off Pires, yet you sit here excusing it. This is a big joke - of the lot you've mentioned, NONE have managed to achieve the same performance level or consistency of their predecessors, meaning the replacement (i.e our performance in the transfer window) has been terrible.

Why wait so long before replacing players if youth was going to be sufficient?

The fact is, Gilberto could play BOTH at CB and DM at the club - why did we sell him? Another foolish mistake, but no, we continue to sell our tried and true players and bring in washed up ones.

Everyone KNEW in the summer that we needed another CB, that Silvestre was useless, but he still kept on with him.

I will not excuse every single thing Arsene has done, but its looking a bit ridiculous blaming him for Sol's meltdown, very soon you'll be blaming him for Reyes inability to settle down in the UK also. I would also like to point out that a good number of the players you've mentioned have also been part of the trophyless run. Our last trophy was in 2005 and Gilberto left in 2008.

debosky:
PS - Senderos was forced out of Arsenal because he was never going to play at the top level again not because of any world cup ambition. He has not played for Everton so that clearly shows he left because he was unwanted and would not be given a real chance at Arsenal. That, is another one of the failures of Wenger's youth policy.

No one will touch him with a 10 foot pole, except another club with dire injury troubles, yet he didn't play for them either.

Senderos has not played for Everton due to injury, he's played 2 games for them, in one of which he kept a clean sheet against Chelsea. He got injured in an European fixture and has been out since. He wasn't willing to play 2nd fiddle to Gallas because he believed that would threaten his world cup chances.
If he had been willing to bid his time, there is nothing that suggested he couldn't have played himself back into contention.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5955725#msg5955725 date=1272309938]Louis Van Gaal's all conquering Ajax team of 1995 that won everything had an average age of 22.
Why can't Wenger achieve the same if we are to believe in your so called Youth Policy you keep using as horrible excuses?[/quote]

[/quote]Fair enough, and what other team has achieved this? keep in mind also that this team had a 30+ year old Frank Rijkaard in the team as well as 2 Nigerians who we all know were probably up to 5 years older than the ages they claimed at the time.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5955725#msg5955725 date=1272309938]Virtually any idiot can make it into the Arsenal squad.
The reason why Gibson can't break into United's first team is because of lack of opportunities. . . not because he is not good enough.
How many Arsenal players will get into the United team on merit? Only Cesc. . . . .which means Song, Nasri, Diaby, Denilson, Eboue and Walcott will be on the bench in United week in week out. Pique was a bench warmer at OT and we now know he's better than any CB Arsenal have had in the last 5 seasons.

You have a point here, though exaggerated You've bought more ready made players in recent times while we have mostly developed our players.

debosky:
You cannot have your cake and eat it dudu.

That a stop gap was needed can only mean two things:

1. Wenger failed abysmally in holding on to experienced players like Gilberto and Pires, which necessitated bringing back oldies like Silvestre and Campbell. He failed to hold on to the ones that should've been kept, only resorting to buying back cheaper duds in the end.

2. Wenger's youth project FAILED, needing him to find a stop gap measure to remedy the sudden decline while he yet again started rebuilding what is doomed to fail.

Either way, the need for an IMPORTED stop gap measure shows Wenger's policies - either the one of not given over 30 players extended deals or his over reliance on youth have failed. This failure is something Dudu fails to recognise, only excusing it as if it was always intended to be part of the process.

How Wenger suddenly realised that we were a young team needing some experience while eagerly selling off Bertie, Kolo and others like they were going out of fashion is a clear testament to how his policies have failed.

I'm not trying to do anything fishy Debo, that the youth project has had HICCUPS I would admit,but that it has failed, DEFINITELY NOT, I would however not claim also that it is a success yet but it is something I believe has a very high chance of being successful given time. You see it as a policy that has failed but I see it as something on the threshold of success.
I must admit that the fact that it has been standing on the threshold of success for a while (when maybe it was a bit of overachievement to do this) is what makes it all the more frustrating for supporters and my acceptance of this reality is what you wrongly qualify as being satisfied with mediocrity.

As to the purchase of stop gap old CBs, I would just like to point out that we didn't sell any of our old CBs apart from Kolo Toure who was only sold last season (and considering his form at the time, the amount he went for and the replacement we brought in, I would have gladly offered to drive him to City myself). Sol walked out on the club due to off field issues and no one had any control over that. In the areas we've sold old players (mostly MF and forward line Henry/Eduaro, Hleb/Arshavin, Ljunberg/Nasri), we've not bought anyone older than the player we've sold. Of the 2 CBs we've brought through our youth system in that time, one is out injured and the other refuses to accept a bit part due to his world cup aspirations and that is what necessitated the stop gap measures.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5955641#msg5955641 date=1272309056]There are millions of youth players in Europe who Wenger woulda brought in as stop-gaps. Why did he opt for Campbell/Silvestre if we are to believe in this your theory of 'Youth Policy'. Arshavin was 28 when he was brought in, why didn't Wenger buy Ben Arfa or any 22 yr-old to fill that role?[/quote]Why would you need youth to be stop gap for youth? what purpose exactly is a stop gap supposed to achieve? answer those questions and therein lies your answer.

biolabee:
Really dudu ask yourself one question

Has the youth policy really paid off, we ssupposedly disband the high wage earners but still our wages are still comparable to manu's now Cesc is the top dog with 110k and other pipes like denilson, walcott and co making like 50 or so while they shd be paid much less

Our wage bill has been considerably less than Manure's since 07/08. There has been a clear 20m+ differential and if you put that in tandem with their net spend in the market you will see a massive difference in spending.

The difference like Sauron has pointed out (in a previous note of his written during one of his random and infrequent sober moments) is that they invested money into their players but we have invested time, in my opinion, there is a point at which the squad strength will be about equal and then with the strength of our youth system we should be able to sustain ours longer and overtake them (provided nothing unusual happens a la rule changes or Abramovic type investment).

If you consider the fact that the first generation of youth (since Arsene) that really started to make it into our first team  are still in their early 20s (even though Cesc is now a PL veteran, he is still only 22, the same age at which the likes of Gibson are just becoming first teamers) then there is still so much more to come from our youth policy. Just imagine the experience the likes of Bendtner, Denilson would have picked up by 25 or even the much maligned Theo (even though he does seem not to be growing much).

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5955522#msg5955522 date=1272307441]There's no shift towards a useless youth policy. . . . .Stop shifting the posts.
Youth policy wouldn't have brought in Arshavin, Silvestre and Sol Campbell. . . . .unless you wanna claim here Silvestre is 19 and Campbell is 17.[/quote]Arshavin was brought in only when it was obvious Rosicky wasn't going to be back anytime soon, Silvestre and Sol were never bought to be first teamers. They were basically cheap experienced players brought in as stop gaps, only that one of them served that purpose very well while the other didn't and its no surprise where the one who didn't came from. Djorou would have been ahead of both of them if not for his extended time out due to injury.

biolabee:
I did not know when Nasri, Bendtner and Walcott were no more first choice players for Arsenal lets even excuse Rosicky
dudu stop spewing, the team has perfomed poorly compared to the last term though we increased in position with a more rabid pack of Sp*rs,Citeh and Villa on our tail like never before, and with the reorganisation of Liverpool on the ranks. There might be a major shakeup of the Top 4 next season
If you are talking of tweaking, the first team off the mark is ManU. This is a team that still is in the reckoning despite losing Tevez n CR7
They just need a GK, a striker and a creative midfielder and off they go
We all know what we need but will the man buy

Did you notice the caveat I put about it being (in their positions?) Bendtner is not first choice and Theo is definitely not first choice, Nasri is first choice but he definitely isn't first choice for the role he played. Stop this scare mongering about next season, even when we were in worse shape we didn't go out of the top 4, is it now that we have better strength in depth, with enough money to improve the squad or now that everyone is going the youth route that we will?.