₦airaland Forum

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5935053#msg5935053 date=1271939626]Arsenal have become an INVESTMENT BANK.
Putting the cart before the horse - Arsenal are a football club first n foremost, every other thing should come after that.
Wenger can make $20 billion income for all i care but if he fails to win titles, he will be adjudged a FAILURE.
Besides that, the money he is saving for the club is nothing near what[b] United make as income and United keep winning titles.[/b][/quote]And also keep piling on debt, you better go and clear your debts before Platini throws you out of Europe.    


[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5935053#msg5935053 date=1271939626]In other words, Wenger has failed in both ends. He cannot win titles like SAF and he doesn't make as much as SAF.
Even the whole Youth Policy is nonsense. The best kids in England are in Carrington not in London.[/quote]And what Youth competitions have they won recently? in the past 2/3 years I mean so don't tell me what Scholes and Becks did. How many do you have out on loan in the PL? in the Championship nko? okay, how about league 1 self? in Bundesliga?

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5935053#msg5935053 date=1271939626]What did Man Utd pay to grow the value of their club?
Did they wait 5 years in the Premiership era to get things right?[/quote]Manure always had a more successful history than Arsenal, to dispute that is to descend into lunacy. Fergie had been at the helm since when again?
At the time the Glazers bought Manure they were valued at approx £800m-£1bn, and are still only worth £1.1 bn now….
that is at the most a growth in the 30% rate, just compare that to effectively doubling the value of the club as Arsenal have done?
and all without taking on debt of such magnitude as Manure.(You've even had to cede Carrington to your parent company) while we smile to the bank and pay our debts off.
I have told you our time is very near, I know yu're peeing your pants already and you should be.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5935053#msg5935053 date=1271939626]Looking at the Forbes report this morning. Arsenal are the 3rd richest football club in the world.
The operating income is $102 million and the revenue is $369 million and yet they cannot win a single trophy in the past half a decade.[/quote]Look at where we are coming from and where we're at, without taking on debt, Manure should be ashamed of themselves. The Glazers will ruin y'all as they've given you the Greek gift of your trophy laden years. Enjoy it while it lasts, it wont be for much longer.

debosky:
Dudu

I am not forcing any issue - Pompey have won only 1 cup in the past 15 years - that is not the same as winning 5, ditto for Spurs. There is little you can use to defend that claim.
And in reference to your comment, league position CANNOT be the sole determinant of a club's position in the hierarchy of things - cups matter because it means, in that particular tournament you are the BEST. Regardless of what can happen 'on the day', it still proves you are the best in that tournament, so kindly stop excusing the failure to win anything on the altar of coming 4th.

I have not said cups don't matter, I've only said they don't matter in table based rankings, there is a difference between the two. I have never excused failures to win cups on the fact that we've kept in the top 4, I have only said that our trophy drought owes largely to the fact that we are not investing as much as the likes of Manure and Chelsea into our playing personel despite competing in the same leagues as they are, winning a trophy in such an environment will definitely be an exception and not the norm.
Like I said previously everything in life can be over simplified when you make simple statements it is akin to someone making a statement like "All whites are racist" which even though often true is never always true, you have to build up a picture first and then draw conclusions. My point all the while has been that Arsene has made this club better than he met it, I do believe that fact is not in dispute and should not even  be in the present.
There is a very good reason the board want him to stay on and he is even the one dragging his feet on a new contract.

debosky:
If you average out our league position, we were probably top 7 (in a league of 22) before Wenger came, still winning cups but have now become top 4 with no cups in the past 5 years. If you can't see the difference then I can't help you.

I definitely see the difference and the obvious question is why the difference? I think it should pique one's curiosity why a man  who won so much when he first arrived should suddenly have such a drought while in the interim he grows the club financially and develops other structures the club didn't have. In all fairness, do you think the likes of spurs, villa and co weren't winning domestic cups at this time? even blackburn within this period won the premiership so it should be obvious by how much the financial magomago by Abramovic and Manure has distorted the landscape.

Now chew on this again, while Arsenal was at highbury, it was valued at 300m GBP, at the last valuation it was worth 767m GBP (3rd behind only Manure and Madrid in the whole world), at that point in time in England, we were behind Manure, Newcastle, Liverpool and at par with Spurs. We didn't have London Colney (a world class training center where the England team trains), the Emirates or an academy of any note. Do people think these things grow on trees? mind you none of all these clubs I've mentioned have done anything tangible in terms of real estate during this period and yet, we've maintained our top 4 status despite all these.

Abeg gripe all you want about our trophyless status, it is a right but also remember to give credit where it is due and don't distort history.

debosky:
I value what Wenger has done, but it is tantamount to building a fantastic house but failing to put a roof on it - no matter how excellent the building is, without a roof, it is still not complete and cannot be complete even if you change the bricks that make up the walls year after year. The roof is what is needed to complete the house and without that, you are wasting time and may eventually destroy the whole building.

The roof will come, and nothing can destroy these structures that are in place, even the media is now waking up to that reality that Arsenal has surpassed all their expectations. I expect us to start winning (and consistently too) within the next 2 years, but that is my estimate the club hierarchy will never come out to confirm anything and besides what purpose would it serve than to make the players relax that nothing is expected of them next season. It is good to demand always more from the players as that is the only way to motivate them to become winners.

debosky:
There is nothing 'unusual' about two teams fighting for majority of the cups - that is what happened when Wenger and Fergie were the two dominant forces, so why should it be 'unusual' now simply because Wenger isn't there?

It is not unusual if it happens by chance but it is now so skewed and obviously distorted by unsustainable spending that the football authorities can now see the potential dangers or why do you think the recent buzz has been about financial controls?

debosky:
One more thing, this 'net spend' argument is simply distorting facts. It does not mean we have NOT spent, we have only managed to sell on players for muchmore than we bought them. It DOES NOT MEAN that we only buy players worth £1.5m per season as that is not true.

The issue is that on the whole, we have not spent as much as the others and most of the savings have gone into building up the club (as the shareholders have not been declaring any dividend), you've got to crawl before you fly and you don't grow the value of a club by over a 100% over a 14 year period without paying for it in some way either by a benefactor injecting funds (which we don't have) or otherwise. If 5 seasons of trophylessness is what we have to pay, then so be it.  All things considered, Wenger has done very well for this club.

@Folly

wetin happen? where you don dey, hope say yu self don vex finish as you no even talk. It is now safe to come in as we are mending fences, if I bend further backwards any further for Debo, DK will definitely accuse us of being gay.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=400313.msg5932465#msg5932465 date=1271889944]@Biolabee
O le nu bi ATM Machine! We need a legit winger and not a Rozzy or Nasri that would keep drifting central or would be unable to swap wings with Theo! Someone to provide penetration and force opposing players to make mistakes just look at Bayern vs Lyon, Ribery was sent off but you wouldn't notice his absence cos Robben was there. I am weary of these 1Terabyte worth of passes we make in front of our opponents boxes when a bit of trickery woulda unlocked the D[/quote]This one na true word and also must be sorted out before next season, of a truth we pass too much. We can take a cue from Manure here, my only fear for Manure is that all their good passers are getting old and none of their upcoming ones is any good at it. (the best passers in Manure's team are still Scholes, Giggs and Carrick then maybe Hargo only problem is that those old men have still got game), if they are not careful, they will do a liverpool next season.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=400313.msg5932465#msg5932465 date=1271889944]@Duduspace
Haba! How much Wenger dey pay you sef? Since when did a team that finished io mid table range 3 times out of 14 become a mid table team. Good grief na who be your Statistics teacher?[/quote]I'm sorry my statistics could be a bit skewed but isn't 10 the halfway point between 1 and 20? and isn't mid table defined as any club halfway in both directions? i.e + or -5 (i.e from about 6  to 14)? I've also taken cognisance of Sauron's point about it being a 22 team table despite his dodgy maths.
I do agree that upper mid-table would be more apt to describe Arsenal's position then but it was definitely not anywhere near top 4 or top 2 but top 6 or 7 perhaps after a long stretch?
If only Arsene was paying me some dough, I would have sent hired assasins after some people for their dissing me on this forum, I'm not sure where you would have been on the list. una wan turn me to martyr when my first name no be Stephen.

debosky:
Ol boy your summation is WRONG - in the three seasons 4 seasons preceding Wenger coming in, we only finished out of the top 5 ONCE. That is NOT mid table.

you are now talking of top 5 in 4 years, you don dey change the period under review? and when exactly did top 4 become top 5?  do you realise we have been top 4 for 14 years and top 2 for 9 years, Debo stop defending the indefensible. Okay, if I back down from the mid-table comment and accept that we were in the top 7, even the blind swordsman can see significant improvement under Arsene I beg and that is the whole point of this present discussion (in case we've gotten distracted).

debosky:
In the 14 years pre-Wenger, two league titles, a cup winners cup, league cups and so on CANNOT be regarded as a mid table team performance, if not then the likes of Fulham who are mid table right now should've won at least 5 trophies (including One European cup) in the last 14 years.

Tell me what mid-table teams like Fulham, Stoke City and Birmingham have won in the past 14 years?? Come off it - you should be able to admit when you are wrong.

You're still forcing this issue Debo, haba your gooner son will be ashamed of you if he reads this archive in the future. Mid-table designation has to do with League position and nothing to do with silverware.

2 out of those clubs you mention have only recently become PL regulars, the true mid-table clubs like Spurs and Pompey have won cups in recent years. But how exactly could they have won the league with Manure and Chelsea's heavy spending they also can't win the Winner's cup because its now been merged with the Old UEFA cup which now has more quality clubs who have runner up positions in their leagues.

In a cup competition, yu can come unstuck on a day or get decisions going against you and getting knocked out but those decisions are supposed to even themselves out through the season (at least that is what we are told only it doesnt seem to work that way for manure).

Pompey is not even mid-table and they won the FA cup in 2008, (mind you they might win it again this year and go into relegation), Tottenham is also mid table and won the Carling cup recently). Everton won it while Amokachi was there and went into relegation.

debosky:
I am not saying we have not improved, but saying we were mid table before he came is at best mendacious and at worst an outright distortion of history in an attempt to over egg what Wenger has done.

While he's done ok, it is not a performance, especially in the past 5 years, to warrant anything less than the harsh scrutiny he is getting now.

Okay, I'll take back the mid-table statement, top 10 club should be a healthy compromise (even though we were 12 just 3 seasons before Arsene's arrival). And I'll accept your grudging OK as a fair enough compromise which I believe will become "excellent" when we return to winning ways which should be very soon.

debosky:
If anyone is giving Sharon ammo it is you - next season you will extend your range to 15 years and probably claim Wenger is still the best thing to happen to the club since it changed its name to The Arsenal, and so on and so on to justify Wenger's continued failing.

And don't kid yourself - that is EXACTLY what we will continue seeing - mediocre results for a club this size and wealth while continuously selling a future that will never come.

Farabale Debo, the future is almost here, honestly I wish I could make you see what I see and share my optimism. To be honest, I've never been as bitter as you are now about the way things are but in the reality of the present day PL, all things considered I don't think anyone would be patient or even good enough to do what Arsene has done, of course he got the opportunity to do it due to his past success but I don't even want to think what would have happened to this club if we didn't have that calming influence and committed person with the reputation to do it.

And you definitely are giving DK and Sauron ammo because you and I know Arsene is going to be there anyway till the end of next season anyway, if you start off with all these negativity even before pre-season, how exactly can you enjoy your club's season? can we make an arrangement to meet up during the emirates cup? make we yarn with my crew, honestly the vibe here is that the club is now on the cusp of something huge that will at least shut Sauron up for good.

debosky:
Oh one more thing, Arsene has caused Arsenal's longest trophy drought of 20 years - I'm sure that puts paid to any weak arguments that you can come up with to claim his performance for the club clearly being the best thing we've seen since sliced moin moin.

not surprising, when in the last 5 years we've been trophyless, of the 15 trophies available, Manure and Chelsea have between them won 12, leaving only 3(a carling cup and an FA cup) for the rest of the PL to fight over, you should see that as being very unusual. Money talks my brother, its unfortunate we've been the poor cousin with tattered clothes but that is about to change very soon cos each year is a positive for our youth policy. Someone gave me an interesting statistic today, in the PL years which I've not confirmed but its implications could be mind boggling.

[Quote]
- In the Premier league era, Arsenals net spend per season on transfers is £1.5m that compares to Chelsea, Manure, Spurs and Pool who have spent average of £20m - £30m per season. Aston Villa, Newcastle and Everton are in the £10m - £20m per season bracket.[/quote]I know Arsenal's figures can't be far from the truth (cos in the post emirates move era, our net spend has been -9) and probably Manure and Chelsea's but I can't vouch for the other clubs, and like Sauron says, that is only half of the picture cos we do pay competitive comparative to Manure, but if you were on the board or the owner of the club, would you have any statistical reason to fire this man
The days of financial doping are numbered and I expect to see some more sanity in this transfer window particularly after the latest Galactico project's hiccups and the fact that Manure already seems to be doing most of their business before summer.
We might just be the best positioned to reap the rewards, keep the faith even if only its because you can't get rid of Arsene.

@Debo
abeg, let this Arsene thingy rest, if only because of the fact that you can do nothing about it. In the name of all things arsenal, lets stop giving DK and Sauron the ammo they will attack us with next season.
I come in peace.

Massive credit to Bayern, DK's boys are doing him proud. Too much money can become a disease, to think that this is the player Chelsea sold. Abeg, why did he leave Chelsea again?

debosky:
Dudu said before Wenger we were AT BEST mid table club??

We won the Cup Winners Cup 2 years before Wenger came and were runners up a year before. We had not gone anything close to the 5 SEASONS we've gone through now with Wenger and we were a mid table club?? We finished 4th 93/94 and then 5th in 94/55 before Wenger joined, so that is midtable?

@Debo

Here is a quick summary of Arsenal's league position history in the period 14 years pre Arsene Wenger and 14 years post Arsene Wenger. Please read it and then convince me my summation of that period is wrong. Nostalgia is a good thing but thank God for historical data. 
Admit that that we've improved since Arsene, there is no shame in being wrong, and it doesn't turn him into a demi God .We've all been there at some time. I'm sure I'll make a verbal error sometime before the day is done.   

82/83                     10
83/84                      6
84/85                      7
85/86                      7
86/87                      4
87/88                      6
88/89                      1
89/90                      4
90/91                      1
91/92                      4
92/93                     10
93/94                      4
94/95                     12
95/96                      5
96/97                      3

The Arrival of Arsene Wenger

97/98     to            2005/2006      ( 9 years never out of the top 2, 3 PL wins and 4 FA cups to boot)   

Along came Abramovic's money and the season of financial recklessness, Emirates stadium move and Arsenal's youth policy.

2006/2007   to          2009/2010      (4 years never out of the top 4)

_{peers about anxiously waiting for Sauron and DK to come and pick holes in  the data}

Dr Kitaun:
Dudu

who cares if u are 43 or 73?

your being yoruba nko, how does that give me migraine? U be Gani Adams?

u dont make sense and u know it!

Of what relevance is this to what we are discussing now?  are you an Oponu? if you don't understand what quotes mean and need some instruction, will you kindly go and register in eko agba.
Some people just like to fool their old age and won't leave well alone, you insulted me in yoruba initially and I didn't respond, even though I made it clear to you I understood your insult, pls be careful I don't have unlimited restraint.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=400313.msg5931147#msg5931147 date=1271872430]@Duduspace
Who has found Theo out? His crunch time displays this season would likely land him in S.A as his contemporaries are running on E at the moment. Since the Burnley game he has been one of our better players! More is expected from him than a Diaby or Denilson despite the fact that he is younger. He has been our most direct player since AA23's injury and loss of form providing key passes,assists and scoring key goals. Despite his geographical handicap he has been arguably our most creative player going forward since Cesc's injury! I can remember Bendtner wasting 5 Theo passes in one game never mind Eduardo and Lampard for the Three Lions, English players are not exactly skillful sef so if you are expecting a Messi from Theo you better tell Okoli to pass you the Kpoli[/quote]Theo is a frustrating player and what I meant about him being found out is in our combination play, our style just doesn't suit him and I doubt he will ever be much more than an impact player for us, all a coach need do is find where his pace can be dangerous and he will get goals. But you can't build a team of Arsenal's status about such a player and that is why if he doesnt add other aspects to his game like improving his touch and actually thinking of what he wants to do with the ball before setting off on a run, he will always be a frustrating player.

He always wants the ball into space and never into feet because he doesn't have the trickery to get past a really good full back. I haven't given up on him though, but I wouldn't hold my breadth  that he'll become anything special but then you never really know, that pace he's got is very scarce commodity.
I wish Vela was given more playing time as I think he is one who can truly become a wide player and their case might just turn out to be like the Song/Denilson or Reyes/RVP scenario where Arsene put one player ahead of the other in a position but the other turned out to be the successful one in that position.

debosky:
Dudu said before Wenger we were AT BEST mid table club??

We won the Cup Winners Cup 2 years before Wenger came and were runners up a year before. We had not gone anything close to the 5 SEASONS we've gone through now with Wenger and we were a mid table club?? We finished 4th 93/94 and then 5th in 94/55 before Wenger joined, so that is midtable?

How is that better than the abysmal finishes by Wenger between 05/06 and 06/07??

I guess anyone taking over from Wenger now will be able to claim we were a mid table club before he joined if we win three titles in the next 15 years.

Rotation will not achieve anything - if you rotate earlier, you will simply play duds like Silvestre and Fabianski more and they will LOSE US GAMES EARLIER. If your back ups are useless, they will not become less useless by playing them earlier.

At that time the cup' s winner's cup was for domestic cup winners and of course you get the opportunity to defend it if you win it, it also wasn't of the quality of the UCL as not all cup winners were really good clubs e.g. Portsmouth would have qualified if Chelsea won the the league despite going into relegation. I think Everton won the FA cup once and then got relegated the same year. If yu want I can get a list of the PL finishes within that period, I'm sure it will be available somewhere on the net.
Silvestre for sure wont be anywhere within a 1000 km radius of the emirates next season, I can assure you of that.

dayokanu:
besides even if Lyon have advanced what business is it of mine? as long as my club has progressed what business is it of mine what Lyon has or has not done?
As at 1996, Arsenal just played back to back European cup finals while Lyon doesnt even feature in European club maps.
2010, Lyon playing semi finals of the CL Arsenal celebrating their 6th trophyless season

Abeg be gone from me DK  
I no get your time now, I'm now lookin forward to next season with other progressive minded gunners who are actively supporting their clubs. Fight don finish and people wey wan vent don vent.
E seun e pada, ija de ti tan o.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=400313.msg5930128#msg5930128 date=1271861328]@Dudu
@Duduspace
Na wa oh na so you hate Walcott reach? Well whether you like it or not he has performed better than your darlings Diaby and Denilson in the last 10-15 games and has shown up in more bigger games than both of them combined! He is more important than Diaby and Denilson[/quote]You should know there is no love lost between me and Theo, pacy guy but really could do better with his physical attributes. Decent guy for the likes of Martin O' Neill and I'm sure if you take him to Villa, they'll play him upfront leaving him to run all day and he'll guarantee them  on the average about 10 to 15 goals per season and then be finished as a player at 27 but Arsenal don't play that way and that is why he has been found out here.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=400313.msg5930128#msg5930128 date=1271861328]Back to Wenger are you saying we give him two years max? Is that your final answer? What would be your elastic limit of tolerance please be specific as possible[/quote]Within 2 years, this club will win something provided no silly departures like 07/08 but we have them all tied to long contracts now so any one who leaves should command enough money to buy immediate like for like replacement. We are not as financially stretched as we were before. Imagine paying 60% of your debts in a year? I'm sure some in the manure management are casting envious glances at us.

Lets review again when the transfer window closes, but these are my thoughts at present. Our financial situation has definitely improved and we've done reasonably well both locally and in Europe yet again.

Yep 2 years max,  If we get good draws in the cups next season, we can win one of the cups, unlike this season where we basically were playing
PL level clubs all the way through.

biolabee:
dudu if u cld analyse it this way why have you made yourself the man shouting against the horde

Na horde wan shout abeg, I've had a couple of interesting discussions and enjoyed it but I could have done without people who really contributed rather than insult, TBH Sauron and DK have contributed to this discussion better than most of our so called fans.

At least the people wey wan see reason go see am. I couldn't care less about the others as I'm not really here on a popularity contest. People mostly make noise without looking at facts. I believe people should take time to understand the circumstances surrounding their club and then formulate their opinions individually rather than jumping on a noise making bandwagon when things go wrong.

You shoulda listened to me and ma brother arguing about Arsenal prior to the beginning of this season. His babe used to say that we don't look like brothers when we start arguing about Arsenal and she doesn't know what the noise is about cos her family supports Manure.  

biolabee:
Chamakh will be an average striker and will need someone to play off of. This will require a change from the 433 to a 442 or 4312 to accomodate both rvp and chamakh.Looking at the leagues and UCL, He has scored 15 gols compated to nickys 11 and i want to bet will not be much better than Nb52 who has managed in the more physical league.

It remains to be seen how he'll do but that guy has got some interesting qualities that will be very useful in this team, we are getting a high quality player for next to nothing. That Bordeaux team was built around Gourcuff and Chamakh and to deliver that consistently no be mai mai. That guy has led the lines on his own for Bordeaux for 2 seasons now and has not been found wanting at anytime.

biolabee:
This is true and from reviews, he is being touted the same way as iker was when he broke through. but while Iker had helguerra,salgado, hierro, roberto carlos and redondo in midfield for him to blood him and give him confidence our young keeper will have gallas,gael,sagna,verma and song. what difference in class. dont get me wrong our guys are ok, but what pisses me game after game is our lack of organisatiom in defending set pieces and playing high lines with our paceless DF which will continually fail and expose the keeper. Ive always said it if VDS or Casillas they will at least concede 75% of the goals that Flappymunia concedes and its due to our defending ethos generally

I would like Szczesney be given a chance and the stakes are high next season, but in times of adversity men are made.
 

biolabee:
The best player for arsenal bar cesc since jan has been Old ma Sol. we lost experience and we are regretting it now
everyone knows that the way to handle player fatigue is to have some form of rotation so that your key men are availble at the crucnh time of the season why would our dear AW not know. now we rely on Eastmond, we spoke of SOng playing too many games and also that of ACN, oh but we heard there is diaby(who is an offensive player) and lets not call denilson
or see Verma now. Injuries can come but they are always exarcebated by constant play week in week out

Our injury situation this season was horrendos, and some older heads let us down (in all fairness to them both were recently back from long term injuries but at least one of them should be set for the exit door in the summer ), we lost experience true but there were other things we gained losing that experience which though cannot be quantified now will become obvious later. I wonder what the effect of limiting the playing squads to 25 from next season will be on injuries to the teams that have such a large number of games as we do.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=400313.msg5929264#msg5929264 date=1271851505]@Dudu
So how many more trophyless seasons do we give Wenger? 5,10,15 or more realistically does the board renew his expiring contract if 'Trophyless' enters season 6? You say fans are bellyaching! If they don't bellyache now then when? Season 10 or 15. If Arsene had picked up one or two cups would he have been under any duress? Ask yourself what won him such cult status in the first place was it his accent or his long nose?[/quote]To be honest, I don't know but  everything definitely has its limits. I personally would still give Arsene at least 2 more seasons but that is something for the custodians of the club to decide. I'll review the squad we start with next season and make a decision then.

The most critical thing at present is not to lose the important players who have contributed this season (and yes included in that list are the likes of Diaby and Denilson but more importantly RVP, Cesc, Song, Vermaelen and Bendtner who doesn't get enough credit for what he has done for the team maybe our story could have been different  if he was fit during the time we had to play Arshavin and Eduardo).

After that comes strenghtening the squad and perfecting the strategy to pace ourselves such that we remain competitive all through the season. What I would dread and pray fervently against this summer is to lose players again like we did after the 07/08 season.

and how

dayokanu:
In the last 12 years Arsenal has played the CL semi twice and Lyon once Not much difference.

They have both beaten big teams Arsenal (Milan, Madrid etc) and Lyon has beaten (Madrid, Inter and Bayern)

At at 1996 The difference between Arsenal and Lyon was so big, Fast forward today, Lyon has caught up significantly because Arsenal under Wenger regressed

What a load of bull, can you supply the data that supports this? or yu're just making this up as you go? besides even if Lyon have advanced what business is it of mine? as long as my club has progressed what business is it of mine what Lyon has or has not done?

Yes Ke Slim, and to be honest, I expect our spending to increase as things get better. It is now a balancing act with what these boys have done this season. I expect an increased level of spending this season and I don't expect us to sell anybody (except if we get an offer we can't refuse like say, anything above 60m for Cesc which we would reinvest in bringing in like for like quality immediately) If there is variation in any of these, honestly who na neva see person wey go kick off storm.

My views on the Summer:

Chamakh might just turn out to be for us what Tevez was for Manure in terms of getting free transfers. We already have the striker thingy sorted now, if Bendtner who will drop to 3rd choice can score 9 goals in 11 games, then we're spoilt for choice in that area, and I do expect Vela to step up and not be content with number 4 striker status. Maybe a fruitful World cup campaign will be the wake up call he needs.

We still have another 15-25m to invest I would guess and if we offload some dead wood in the squad we will have another 5 to 10 million and with Arsene's shrewedness in the Market, I would expect us to get in at least a quality CB and a quality CM to provide competition in those places. I personally would go for Szczesney as our new GK but I'm not under the pressure Arsene is, so he probably will opt to shell out for a new keeper but I can assure you that boy is quality and I expect him to become Poland's number 1 in the next 2 years, just ask Brentford fans who have been asking how come we allowed him go on loan to them while fielding Almunia.

I'll review again come august and give my verdict, this club is so close now, I don't see Chelsea spending another 100m neither do I see Manure doing much in the summer with what they've done already (which I personally can't see improving their squad much as we have better players than they've recently got from the market) so if we improve our squad, there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to compete better than this season. The likes of Giggs and Scholes were still the difference for Manure when it came to crunch time and they had always been winners even from the time we had our invincibles. Apart from Gibson and Rafael, none of their other youngsters really had significant playing time for us to judge them as our youngsters have been judged (and people forget Gibson is actually the same age as Cesc/Song/Bendtner but is still a bit part player for Manure). The likes of Sturridge and Kakuta for Chelsea never really got going and came up short when called upon.

Also one thing I think Arsene needs to look at is the rotation of the squad earlier on in the season, the way we've crawled over the finishing line this season in terms of injuries should give cause for concern and something has to be done about it, sort that out and sort out our defensive issues in the big games and I can assure you another invincible season might just be round the corner.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5929107#msg5929107 date=1271849447]The team Wenger won his first league title with IS not his team.
He inherited a good team so kindly strike out 9798 from his list of little achievement.
To put in a clearer picture, Wenger inherited the defence of Keown, Dixon, Tony Adams, Steve Bould and Nigel Winterburn.
Besides that, there was a world class Dennis Bergkamp and Ian Wright in the attack.[/quote]And what exactly did that team win before Arsene's arrival? how much were world class players going for then and now? what is the effect of the over 300m that Chelsea has poured into their team since then or the 100m you lot have poured into yours since then? while we payed for our stadium?
Arsenal has a plan, it hasn't worked yet true enough but work it will. It is a testament to Arsene's genius that we've even remained competitive at all just look at Valencia who have also built a stadium in recent times, they had trouble to even pay player's salaries.
We are almost out of the woods, be VERY, VERY, VERY afraid.

edoyad:
dudu what about Arsenal's history is wrong in my post ? That we were in two consecutive european finals 94 and 95 or that we won 3 domestic titles in the 90s before Wenger ?

dudu, that Arsenal has global prominence cannot in any way be linked to Wenger but to the Barclays English Premiere league as a whole and the English FA. Is there any top 7 English club today that is not a known brand around the globe ? If we owe that to any manager then it would Alex Ferguson and his 99 squad.

Fair enough, you can hold those views, 2 people hardly see things in the same way. But here is our winner and run up history domestically, I'll divide it into 14 years before Arsene and 14 years after Arsene and we'll then check if your Theory as to Arsene's influence holds through. That is in the period (1982- Present)



                                  Pre-Wenger                                   Post-Wenger

Premier league

Winners:                 1988–89, 1990–91, (2)                        1997–98, 2001–02, 2003–04 (3)

Runners-up:                    0                                                 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2004–05 (5)



FA Cup
Winners:                    1993, (1)                                                   1998, 2002, 2003, 2005 (4)
Runners-up:                  (0)                                                         2001 (1)


UEFA Champions League/Champion's Cup
Runners-up                     (0)                                                      2005–06 (1)

European Cup Winners' Cup
Winners:                        1994 (1)                                                  (0)
Runners-up:                   1995 (1)                                                  (0)

UEFA Cup
Runners-up:                    (0)                                                          2000 (1)


Looking at these figures, can you in all honesty claim that this man has not improved the club In the years before Arsene, we were at best a mid-table club without even Aston Villa and Norwich City's pedigree in Europe, Arsene has transformed us into a club that has never dropped out of the top 4 during his tenure. Despite the massive differential in spending by other members of that elite category.

edoyad:
It's appalling the levels Arsenal fans have been reduced to. Arsenal is not a global brand today because of it's youth policy or thrifty management, those ideologies arose as a means of ensuring that the success at the club was sustained. If those models cannot bear fruit after all this time it means either the model or the people effecting it have failed.
Arsenal was a successful club even before Wenger arrived, entering two consecutive European finals in 94 and 95 winning the first final. Arsenal were not in crisis before Wenger cos our last title before he arrived was in 91 not to mention FA and League cup victories just two years after that, the fact that we are even here discussing this issue means there's something wrong.
Arsenal made Wenger and not the other way around, whether it's Wenger that's on that seat or not Arsenal'll still be a big fish in England after all it was after his arrival that we relinquished our second position in league title wins to Man U.

The fact that something is wrong is not in contention Edoyad, the puzzle is to find out what exactly is wrong? unfortunately noise and belly aching seems more popular than cold facts and sense.
As to Arsenal's history, I'll get you more info showing that what you say is not completely true. That Arsenal made Arsene is never in question, if he was not given the opportunity, he couldn't have done anything anyway.
But Arsene has taken Arsenal to a whole new level of global prominence without sacrificing the core principles of the club, You might want to read up the book "Arsenal: The making of a modern Superclub" to get more information.

Here is a quote about Arsenal's history Pre and post Wenger from someone who has been supporting Arsenal for quite a while:

[Quote]
The only way you can judge Wenger is by comparing him with what went before.

How long should you go back? I’ll take my lifetime which is long enough (I’m feeling old today). I’m 43, born in 1966. Wenger took over in 1996.

In the first 30 years of my life we won:

3 League Titles
1 Cup-Winners Cup
1 Fairs Cup
3 FA Cups
2 League Cups
In 14 years of Wenger we have won

3 League titles
4 FA Cups
In the third of my life where Wenger has been boss, he has won almost as much as we won in the other two thirds.

But this doesn’t tell the whole story. He has yet to win a European trophy, but the trophies we won in Europe in the past were always the lower prizes. He has only competed in one UEFA Cup (excluding his first game in charge) and he was just a penalty shoot-out away from winning the trophy. Every other year we have been fighting against the biggest clubs in the world – and only one can win.[/quote]

Dr Kitaun:
Can someone tell Duduspace that he is just displaying his irritating ignorance the more?

Enuff of all these theories abeg, sustainability my foot!

If ENYEAMA was French he would have brought in him d summer window, but the Ijebuman no wan pay common 2M GBP for my countryman that has WC experience (ask Paul Scholes) something no current Arsenal goalie can boast of!

Can someone tell Dr. Kit to contribute meaningfully to debate and stop belly aching over what he can do nothing about?    and if you continue with those insults as above I reserve the right to respond at a time of my own choosing. I hope you know I'm Yoruba born and bred. I have bigger fish to fry at present so I don't have your time, you can kindly speak to the hand.

debosky:
Utter falsehood - Wenger was again so FIXATED on his 'future' that he was bidding for Smalling in January, instead of FIXING the CURRENT problem of the side, lack of a decent goalkeeper. If Smalling rumoured to be sold at £7m could be bought in January, so we wouldn't be able to add £3m and buy a decent keeper?
If Wenger bought a goalie in January, that has ZERO implication on Vermaelen or Arshavin.

Stop harping on about this keeper thingy, the GK issue is not solely to be blamed for our not winning anything this season, YES we can have a better keeper, but what guarantees exactly do you have that any keeper bought in january would have done better than Almunia exactly? Yu're shouting about Given, but he's had his share of howlers this season only you wouldn't notice anyway because most of the matches you watch are Arsenal matches anyway and that skews your perception of how good or bad your keeper is.
Everyone has suddenly become an expert at judging keepers because we lost the PL with 3 games to go According to some people, half of a team that came third in the PL and got to the last 8 in the UCL should be sold off? how silly can people get?

debosky:
It is these weak and poorly thought out excuses you roll out that and make me wonder if you truly understand what the problem is with this team and Wenger. He is FOREVER looking at the future and unable to look at what can be done to fix this team NOW. Instead of buying Chamakh now and giving us a fighting chance for the title, he was looking at the future, how he would get him for free and what happened? We couldn't score in the games that mattered, not against Villa, barely got one vs Utd and none against Chelski.
Wenger's eternal fixation on the future will be his downfall at this club - little changes that can turn things around are at his fingertips, yet he stubbornly clings on to his idealism.
As usual you don't get it.

It is you who don't get it, I've provided facts and figures showing the changes in spending, yu lot never even had eyes to figure it out for yourself, I had talked of the change in spending post 2005 on this forum even before Sky brought out the figures. You were waiting for when the board and the manager would come out and tell you they cannot compete financially with the likes of Chelsea. How much clearer can someone be than Arsene's last statement about competing with Chelsea? yet all some people can read is the heading and jumping to the conclusion that we'll now go on a spending spree. I laugh in Kalabari.

On the very same soccernet page Wenger's statement were posted, the club chairman came out passing comments about financial controls and how it would help prevent unsustainable spending and some people still can't get a clue common sense really is very scarce.

Even sky who are generally anti arsenal and manure ass lickers were the first to bring out those figures showing the difference in spending.
What figures have you ever supplied? the only thing you can say is to shout the mantra "We haven't won anything in 6 years", how intellectually lazy can people get? no one even wants to figure out why exactly we've had to modify our strategy to compete. Have you ever thot of answers to this questions?

Why exactly have we prioritised the PL and UCL ahead of cup competitions?
Why exactly have we always chosen to play youngsters in the Carling Cup?
Why exactly do we expose our youngsters to high level competition early?
Why exactly do we go scouting round the world for talent and bring them in to the club before certain ages?

I have chosen to  trust a manager who has shown he can win in the past, has guided us through a potentially tricky time in our history and has set us on a successful and sustainable path and yu're telling me I don't get it,. when yu don't supply an alternative or at the most your alternative is to bring in a manager like Mourinho who demands for money the club doesnt have. Did you hear what he had to say when the idea of him managing Liverpool was mooted?

To be honest, I don't understand you anymore Debo, frankly speaking, I don't know what this doom and gloom mentality will achieve, over and above any misgivings you might have about Arsene, don't try rewriting history and downplaying what that man has achieved for us, it is cheap, lazy and is the very definition of mediocrity that you claim to abhor.

I'm beginning to tire of this discussions Debosky, I tire of explaining simple things. I hope the World Cup starts very soon so our attention can shift to following our players again.

dayokanu:
The money spent on Ramsey or Walcot would have bought a decent goalkeeper

Agreed it would have, Liverpool thot exactly that way and won some things like you say, they however can't get enough home grown players now and are bound to drop even further next year and Rafa says he needs 60m to be competitive. Ramsey and Walcott are massive talents, you keep on harping about a decent keeper, and you've not answered if all our problems would have been solved by having a good keeper as you say. Despite our not having a good keeper we were still in the title race with 3 games to go so our keepers couldn't have been so bad after all.

Liverpool have one of the best GKs in the league but where are they in the league table? they are even below us because their squad is even more unbalanced than ours. We don't need 60m to improve our squad as we've shown the strenght in depth of our squad already this season so there is no need to say more, our way is one that we are already benefitting from and are bound to benefit more from in the future.

There are so many other clubs who have good keepers like you say but are still nowhere near us, you are more intelligent than to oversimplify things. 100m spending differential over a 5 year period is a lot of money or 300m in the case of chelsea. With the level of investment Manure and chelsea put in, they could get instant quality and even to leave them on the bench, Berba probably costs more than our entire front line. we have had to grow most of ours and I see those 2 copying our system again after returning to reality. We will get there, it is only a matter of time.

As we bring players through, we are also bringing Goalkeepers through. Two of our reserve GKs are U21 internationals for Italy and Poland at present so we will also be strong in that department really soon, If you've been following the English league, you would have heard of Szczesney exploits at Brentford and being capped for Poland at 19 years of age.

dayokanu:
^^ How much was spent on Arshavin or is that not recent enough?
Are you saying Arsenal cant afford one of the top 5 goalies in the world Hugo Lloris? How much did Chelsea buy Cech?,
Or Is Lyon richer than Arsenal or do they make more income?

In the past 12 years, Lyon has not done as well as Arsenal has done in Europe so there is no basis for comparison, different league different scenario. It is easy to conclude that a GK would have made a difference this season but I totally disagree that all the points we conceeded were due to GK errors e.g. A GK would not stop Diaby turning off when Watson was driving into the box.

On the whole our squad is young, that is true but not every one of our losses is down to youth, our competitors in this league are not Spurs or Villa, every other club we have outperformed every single season, the only ones who have beaten us hands down are Manure and Chelsea and we have nothing near their level of investments. Our strategy was to go for a youth system while patching up with bargain buys while our youth come through. They are now at the level where they should be winning things and I can't wait for that to start.

besides if you got a GK for 10m or 20m or whatever values are going about these days, that is one of Vermaelen or Arshavin you would probably not have bought.

dayokanu:
Cissoko (15m), Lisandro Lopez (24m), Michel Bastos (18m), Makoun (14m) 10m got Hugo Lloris

Are you telling me the players above are beyond Arsenal

Individually no, collectively I don't know but probably yes (what yu've got there is a cummulative value over 60m) as we've not spent over 20m in a single window in recent times. Besides, I don't think we need such wholesale changes to the squad.
But then one player doesn't make a team, as a player is only useful if he is able to take to the pitch.

Eastbay:
@duduspace,
It's not that Arsene's not done a good job,but I remember some story about Arsene having a certain "war chest" to spend on,meaning that money was allocated to him to spend.It's not like the board has to sweep through the office to find loose change.

Eastbay, firstly don't believe everything you read in the papers, secondly no club will come out and tell you the true situation of finances in the club viz a viz money available for player signing or even if the club will go bust tomorrow. All yu'll hear is that there is money available, no one will give you exact figures. Besides, we have signed players like Vermaelen and Arshavin recently and our financial situation improves by the day so we don't have to sell the likes of Hleb or lose Flamini on a free like in 07/08.
We can now keep the core of our squad and improve it.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5922447#msg5922447 date=1271757350]Your list is dodgy. . . . . .Obertan is exempted.
He was under 21 in January 2010 so we are the strongest in the league if it comes to the 25-man-squad-cap.
Other exempted players also include. . . .Macheda, Welbeck, Fabio, Rafael, Cleverly, Smalling and Joshua King.
Five of those have already copped Champions League debut so we are very FINE.[/quote]The list is fine, I never passed a comment on those eligible for Manure so I didn't put a figure on it, but the fact still remains that most of those who qualify for you are in the near retirement cadre.
Here is a clearer picture of how each club is affected, based on the present squads:

[Quote]
Arsenal with their bumper group of exciting young talent will be largely unaffected next season with their current squad of 30 holding 18 home grown players 7 of which can be registered as under 21. This remarkably will still include the likes of Theo Walcott and Carlos Vela who both turn 21 in March. The Problem for Wenger however will come in the second season of the new regulations where many of his young gunners will no longer be eligible for the B list.

Liverpool are the big four/five big losers with the rule change which, is hardly a surprise given Rafa’s penchant for importing Spanish players as if they were the cigarettes and wine on his bi-annual booze cruise to Bilbao. Liverpool have faced similar difficulties meeting UEFA’s quota of 8 home grown players in their 25 man Champions league squad. Enforcing the same rules in the Premier League leaves the Reds with 23 registered non ‘home-grown’ players fighting it out for 17 places. The Kop may not see Degan, Plessis, El Zhar, controversial keeper Itandje and even Dossena next season as a serious squad overhaul has to take place before a single player can enter into Anfield. Luckily though left- back Insua and striker Nemeth will be able to register in the secondary under 21 list. The cut off requirement here is that a player must be younger than 21 years old on the 1st January so both players will make it all be it by five and seven days respectively.

City’s neighbours Manchester United however are in a considerably better position. Their current squad of 35 houses 9 players under 21, including Macheda, Danny Welbeck and da Silva twins Fabio and Rafael. This means that the current squad will only need to lose one player in order to meet regulations. Richie De Laet and David Grey look most at risk as it stands.

Chelsea currently have a registered squad of 18 very talented non- home grown players and 11 home grown players, 4 of which will be under 21 years old come January 1st 2010. This means that only one player will be ineligible for the Premier League. Midfielder Nemanja Matić may well be the unlucky one left out, although as he can neither be sold nor loaned out he could face an uncertain future.[/quote]Where Manure has 9 and Chelsea 11, we've got 18 and a lot of them already have PL experience or high level experience (which we've paid for in terms of some weird results) but stand to gain from going forwards.

A lot of our present crop did the double at U18 level confirming they are the best in the country, our next lot are already in the play offs for our regions academy league with 3 games to go (we might meet your lads if they are able to finish ahead of Blackburn or liverpool), we have gone ahead to bring the likes of Galindo and Wellington Silva in early enough so that they will qualify as HG players, so why should any Arsenal fan be pessimistic going into the future?

Who has laid this foundation? the same man who has kept us in the top 4 while completely changing our system ahead of all these rule changes. While you lot were busy buying big name players, this man kept on bringing young ones through, you lot should be very afraid of just how much capacity Arsenal has for dominating in the future.
The good thing is that once this present generation Cesc/Song/Diaby/Clichy (in their early 20s) win something, we already would have a conveyor belt going like Barcelona with the next generation of JET/Wilshere/Lansbury/Coquelin already waiting in the wings and then the set of Afobe/Aneke/Miquel/Freeman after that. And those who don't make it are still of a sufficient quality to sell for some good money in a market for which serious demand has now been created.

Eastbay:
@duduspace,
I wouldn't want to agree that the above listed reason is the only one.
It's plain and simple.You don't have quality on the pitch.
I'm no financial person,but I agree with Sauron:Portsmouth and Villa are fractions the size of Arsenal in terms of revenue.
The Pompey case was just down to maladministration in the sense that the owners predicted a boom from the 2008 FA Cup win.Villa doesn't have the cash yet somehow they made it to Wembley twice this season.IThat should say something about the argument of spending/not spending
Like I said before,if fans cannot have their satisfaction after shelling out their hard-earned pounds to support the club at matches,it won't make any sense to keep saving on the financial end and not have anything to show for it.If the board is honest,they would want to reciprocate the fans who are partly responsible for the revenue from gate takings and replica/merchandising.
Spending a little cash shouldn't put the club in jeopardy.And Comparing the club's finances to United is a bit unfair,because United is being saddled by debt from the Glazer's purchase,not by the day-to-day running,cus we make profits each year.I think a club the size of Arsenal,given their antecedents shouldn't be starving the fans of trophies.Cus at the end of the day,footie and Arsenal,and any other club for that matter  is nothing without the fans.The profits you so much emphasize on,would not be there if the fans were not there.

I agree its definitely not the only reason, issues of life are never in a binary format of yes or no (despite people atimes making it out to be so). Arsene has his mistakes as well as any human being out there, but within the resources available to him,  the man has done a damned good job.

On to better things now, anyone who wants Arsene out can match to Emirates to eject him themselves (if the stewards don't eject them first). 

But pause awhile before yu undertake that action, lets examine what the effect of the new squad rules willl be on teams in the PL starting from next season, then maybe Arsene's foresight won't look so dumb.

If you aint aware, from next season, all PL teams will be required to name a 25 man (over 21 years old) PL squad with at least 8 Home grown players in it, the definition of HG is a player that has been trained in England/Wales for a period of 3 years between the age of 16 and 21 years. You are however allowed to have an unlimited number of players 21 years and under.

This table shows how the "historical" top 4 clubs meet the quota, it is interesting that apart from the 8 that qualify for Arsenal, 5 others outside the 8 still qualify as HG players, most of those who qualify for Manure and Chelsea are old and are not likely to be playing anywhere near their peak in a few years time. Liverpool is the worst placed and will either have to buy from other English clubs or make up the spaces with some Under 21 players (some other clubs should be happy that they might get some of that 60m Rafa wants).
This rule will also have an effect on the players transfer trend over the summer as its no use going to buy more foreign players if yu wld only fall foul of the new rules, infact I'm guessing it had something to do with Fergie's hot pursuit of Smalling over the summer on hearing news that Arsene was interested in signing the player, I can't however relate it to the purchase of Diouf and Obertan or the new mexican guy as they all wouldnt qualify, maybe Sauron can enlighten us?

@Debo
This is also one of the reasons why it might not be a good idea to sell Vela as he qualifies as Home grown whereas Eduardo does not. Some rumors are also coming up that we might not lose Merida as initially thought as he would not be an home grown player if he goes back to spain thereby giving him more incentive to try to make a career with us.

Chelsea              Arsenal           Liverpool             Man Utd
         
1. Terry            1. Bendtner        1. Johnson            1. Neville
2. Lampard          2. Clichy          2. Gerrard            2. Ferdinand
3. Cole             3. Djourou         3. Carragher          3. Brown
4. Turnbull         4. Gibbs           4. Spearing           4. Owen
5. Mancienne        5. Traore          5. Insua              5. Rooney
6. J.Cole           6. Song                                  6. Giggs
7. Mikel            7. Cesc                                  7. Foster     
8. Hutchinson       8. Walcott                               8. Carrick
--------------------------------------------------------------         
9. Cech             9. Sol             9. Cavalieri          9. Scholes
10. Ivanovic       10. Senderos        10. Agger             10. O'Shea
11. Alex           11. Vela            11. Torres            11. Evans
12. Zhirkov        12. Almunia         12. Aurelio           12. Fletcher 
13. Essien         13. Van Persie      13. Benayoun          13. Gibson
14. Malouda        14. Fabianski       14. Maxi              14. VDS
15. Drogba         15. Sagna           15. Kuyt              15. Kuszczak
16. Anelka         16. Vermaelen       16. Babel             16. Evra
17. Bosingwa       17. Gallas          17. Mascherano        17. Hargreaves
18. Matic          18. Silvestre       18. Lucas             18. Anderson
19. Kalou          19. Diaby           19. Riera             19. Berbatov
20. Ballack        20. Rosicky         20. Ngog              20. Park
21. Deco           21. Nasri           21. Reina             21. Vidic
22. Carvalho       22. Arshavin        22. El Zhar           22. Nani
23. Ferraira       23. Eboue           23. Skrtel            23. Valencia
24. Hilario        24. Eduardo         24. Aquilani          24. Tosic
25. Belletti       25. Denilson        25. Nemeth            25 Obertan

Another interesting write-up setting the history of Arsenal straight.
http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/2010/04/this-team-will-have-its-day/

debosky:
Ok - my apologies. You've given NO cogent reason for us not spending in that time though - Utd has spent DESPITE the Glazer debt, have won titles and cups and their debts are REDUCING now. So kindly explain why Wenger couldn't spend and reduce the debt if Utd has managed to do so.

Forget the 'premiership era' costs - kindly show us stats of how much the clubs (Utd and Arsenal) have comparatively spent from 2004/05 (when we STILL had a VERY competitive squad) till date and then let's talk.

It is too easy to muddle up data by looking over the premiership era as a total.

Like I've clearly said, Wenger has lost the plot since circa 2007, and not the premiership era per se.

The stats still show that if you look at the figures since the move to the stadium, we've had a net spend of -9m annually (averaging). whereas prior to moving we had a net spend of 5m so the fact that our spending has reduced is not contestable, thats effectively a 14m differential per annum while we sold off older players on bigger contracts and blooded the young players. That might look small but over the 5 year period since the move, in player terms, we're talking of about 5 Arshavin class players, just imagine what that would have meant to this squad?

Remember also that during this same period, Manure's wage bill outgrew ours by 25m (possibly larger now)

                                              Before                            After
Total cost of players in:         199m                                 71m
Total from players out:           132m                                105m
Net spend:                               67m                                -34m
net spend/ season                   5m                                 -9m


I have already supplied those figures you asked for in an earlier post, though I had to come up with it myself off the cuff during the middle of the season, I'll find time to paste it here, but I don't even see what it will do, you've already come to the conclusion that Arsene is the reason we aren't winning trophies.

And don't for once be fooled into thinking all is fine and dandy with Manure, the minute they stop winning (probably as soon as this season) they'll be in serious trouble, they are presently like someone earning 300 pounds per month but has a maxed out 3000 credit limit card they can't win the UCL every season and neither will they have a gullible Madrid to buy CR7 from them every year.
They'll be paying 45m annually in interests alone till 2017 and they still have to pay the capital of about 500m on their bonds while they still have another 200m+ owed to banks. They are worse off than the likes of Oceanic bank and their loan exposure. Why exactly do you think the Red knights are getting jittery? their debts could spiral out of control anytime soon. Was anyone aware of the keg of gunpowder Pompey were sitting on until this season? mind you Pompey's debts were only in the 100-150m range but everything blew open when they couldn't find someone to buy the club and take on the debt and Liverpool's debt is only in the 250-300m range and they are already feeling the squeeze but Manure's debt is in the 700m range.
I am not saying Manure will ever go into Administration (that is not likely even though I might exaggerate it sometime to rile Sauron) but the debt will have to be brought under control at some point in time, it simply cannot go on, the recent financial controls being proposed by UEFA is also making it more difficult for club owners to put money into the club in form of loans, they are even trying to discourage converting such loans into equity as Abramovic did to wipe off Chelsea's debts.

dayokanu:
If you look at a club like Olympique Lyon They have managed to remain competitive in both home and Europe while spending big and selling big.

They sold Essien, Diarra, Benzema etc and have replaced them with Cissoko (15m), Lisandro Lopez (24m), Michel Bastos (18m), Makoun (14m), Bafetimbi Gomis(13m) another 10m got them Hugo Lloris who replaced Coupet and is one of the top 5 keepers in Europe at the moment at the moment, In CL semi with a 50-50 chance of playing the finals and still in the race for Lique 1

Would you tell me Lyon makes more money or are they richer than Arsenal I dont know of any Arab sugar daddy with Lyon

Don't muddle up issues here DK, we are talking about the PL here and the effect of Abramovic's money. Did Lyon achieve anything in Europe during this period? wasnt it generally accepted that the English clubs were dominating until this season?

@Debosky

Why do you always take things out of context? I'll start questioning your grammatical skills. did you read this at all? or is someone just trying to make noise?
This was what I wrote in the earlier discussion with Sauron.

besides you always had a competitive squad even before then anyway, it was not like we were winning the league every year and you lot somewhere mid table, you even had a better academy prior to Arsene's arrival and were always more attractive to young and upcoming English players prior to the 90 minute rule.

at no time did I insinuate that Manure were only winning because of the Glazer debt. I only pointed out to Sauron that we have not been spending anything near what they have been spending post Abramovic's arrival.

Sauron also cannot convince anyone that even though all of the Glazer debt isnt due to player purchases, the 130m net spend on players has no part at all to play in that debt profile as well as their high wages.

Like I said, I don't begrudge them their trophies but if he can make fun of our 5 season lack of trophies, I can also make fun of their debt as the current situation of both clubs are as results of decisions taken at the board level of both clubs as to their future directions.

chic2pimp:
Yes but the secret is as clear as daylight, pay Stars the wages they deserved and trophy will come
But nooo, not Wengay he'll rather pay three 21 year old's £35,000 each rather than a quality player £100,000

Wenger will not pay these kinds of wages and transfer fees becos its unsustainable and also because the club doesn't have the money, is this so hard to comprehend?

chic2pimp:
Ofcourse it is bound to have an effect however that still does not justify the years of trophylessness, or does it?
Imagine not even a CC to show for it while the likes of Spurs and Pompey have won trophies during this same period

Have Spurs and Pompey also been competing in Europe? have they had to play the same amount of matches as Arsenal had to? would you in all honesty even compare a club like Pompey to Villa who though havent won anything in the same period have consistently finished ahead of Pompey in the league? Why do yu like to mix up issues when yu're only bent on scoring cheap points?

chic2pimp:
It's not the way I see it, it's the way it is.
As you said yourself winning trophies and making profit should not be mutually exclusive however Wengay has you lot believing that is should.

It is the way you see it, the only fact here is that Arsenal haven't won anything in 5 seasons, and that Chelsea and Manure as well as a a good number of other clubs have spent more than Arsenal in recent times, everything else that stems from these are matters of opinion and conjecture