₦airaland Forum

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=400313.msg5538380#msg5538380 date=1266501410]The referee asks if the player taking the freekick wants it quick or will wait for the whistle.
Cesc musta told the referee he would wait, then take it quick while the referee is arranging the wall for the defending team.
I dunno there are still some simpletons on this planet who don't grasp the basic rules in football.[/quote]You are the one looking like a simpleton now, did you see any dialogue between the ref and the player who took that freekick? that guy should have been booked for playing the ball before the ref said anything. The ref only started raising his hand after the free kick had been taken.
Anyway yu can run your mouth how you like, I don't expect anything else from you.

New thread, new beginning; May this thread bring us much joy than the other one.

People no happy today, wetin dey happen? seems everything is going wrong at present with the Ref playing for our opponents
anyway sha, after darkness comes the glorious light.

dayokanu:
The duduspace of this world

Wetin dey? yes I stand with Arsene, make Sauron go dey pay im gbese and you stay dere dey do local champion for Bumblesliga. Arsena will survive y'all.

debosky:
Not quite

Read below:

The Group’s property development financing consists of the Highbury Square loan facility which has been referred to above, and a small loan being used for the Queensland Road development of which £6.0 million had been drawn by the end of the year (2008 ‐ £5.2 million). The interest swaps which were in place to fix the rate of the Highbury Square loan expired during the year and subsequently interest charges are being paid at a variable rate, so benefitting from the current low level of base rate.

There is obviously going to be stand alone loan financing for ANY property project, a[b]nd at least 70% of any football income from transfers MUST be spent on the team - those are the terms of the Emirates Stadium loan.[/b]

From the above, Arsene is either sitting on the Kolo and Ade profit, or he has frittered it away giving long term deals to players like Vela who have done NOTHING to deserve them.

Fair enough, it still doesn't say anything about where the money to implement the project itself will come from and I don't believe that part in bold as no one within the hierarchy has come to confirm this, its only come from an article that sounds like a load of poppycock to me. If Arsene really has that much of a transfer kitty to spend, surely the board will put pressure on him to spend it as it is no use to anyone leaving it there gathering dust.

I did read within the accounts though that the net income from player trading will be given to the manager to (and here is the critical word) "reinvest into the team", now reinvest into the team runs the entire gamut from buying youth players to renewing contracts e.t.c.  Now the accounts don't say anything about any other sources of funding from the team apart from that (now I'm not saying there is none but if there was surely it should have been stated in the accounts) but we all know the wage bill is much larger than that, that makes me believe the whole money reinvestment thingy is just some PR speak, like I said the man who has rags for clothes in his cupboard will still find a way from covering it from his neighbours.

If you ask me, noone can really know what is going on between the board and Arsene and neither of them will come out to tell you the true state of things, all I know is everytime a board member or someone else comes to mouth off in the press about how much kitty Arsenal has (it was 70m in 2007 and 100m at a stage last summer) and Arsene comes out to give his explanations, I'm yet to see a board member come out to say he is lying and that really tells me all I need to know that this is some sort of strategic decision at the board level. Arsene however is part of that decision(possibly he is the major proponent) and he is working within his own convictions that the youth philosophy can work and personally, I see no reason why it shouldn't. No one can complain about the quality of recent purchases of Vermaelen and Arshavin(which most people now comfortably forget is about 26m), and most people will forget also that we are already talking of a 10+m package for Chamack over a 4 season period (yet to be confirmed though), add all these together and all of a sudden that 40m is not looking so much after all (since that is not a windfall that will come our way every season anyway).

Like I said, there are somethings we will never know, all I know is Arsene has won in the past, he is keeping us competitive and developing a relatively young team compared to our direct competitors, he is keeping the books balanced and we're not in debts. I thank the big man up there (not Arsene) for small mercies and I believe in due season we will win again with recent trends in spending also confirming the wisdom of the path we chose.

Happy Birthday Slim, 6-0 at Porto today should be a good present methinks.

Did anyone see the howler from Shay Given against Stoke?
what was that about? even I could have caught that ball, it is worse than anything Almunia has done this season.

proudly9ja:
Arsenal miss out on 5 top players for the away game to Porto.

Gallas, Almunia, Eduardo, Song and Arshavin all out.

Id expect Sol Campbell, Fabianski and Eboue to come in for 4 of the 5 above. Edu was prolly not going to be i the starting 11 anyways.

No shaking, its time to show our strength in depth anyway.

Hope deferred maketh the heart weak, that is what is affecting Debosky at present, he would have been one of those accusing Moses in the desert those days.  

@Debosky
While I accept most of what you say about the 2 businesses being run separately from each other, you can't but keep in mind that they however don't submit different reports. If you no dey inner inner, I'm not sure you can really have the details of which monies is used for what per se, particularly when they don't declare different profits or losses individually for each arm of the business as a different report.

I do feel you sha about the trophies thingy and we really should start winning soon, I'm sure even the board must feel the same now but like Arsene, I don't necessarily believe that big name signings will be the magic solution everyone anticipates it will be, we are really very close this season unlike the last one where we took a step back and I do think we are on the verge of doing something big like doing a quadruple (not this season though so no one should get on my back about that) but the quality of players we are developing is quite impressive and when we do start winning I tell you its going to be for a looooong time.

Edit:
I just looked at the financial reports again and even though it talks about funding and the loans taken for the Highbury square project (which has now been reduced to 47 million after sales of some of the flats), it is less forthcoming on where the funding for the Queensland project will come from, the interest and loan repayment for the Stadium is also pending so its definitely not yet Uhuru.

On a funny note cos I'm sure Debosky won't like the sound of this at all, if you are still wondering where our money is going to, take a look at this, perhaps this is what that 40m from the sale of Kolo and Adebayor went towards?  

Newlon signs up for Queensland Road project

Arsenal Football Club is pleased to announce that a critical contract with the affordable and key worker homes provider, Newlon Housing Trust, has now been signed. This paves the way for the start of the Queensland Road development, situated adjacent to Emirates Stadium.
The initial building works for the development, which received planning permission in March 2009, will consist of the construction of[b] 354 affordable housing units and an Arsenal Sports Centre, which will support and provide a venue for Arsenal's many educational and social inclusion community programmes. [/b] The affordable housing units and Arsenal Sports Centre are expected to be completed in 2013.

Planning permission has also been granted for the construction of a further 375 residential units on the Queensland Road development. The construction timetable for this element of the project has yet to be confirmed.

Meself wan go buy shares in Arsenal football club, who will loan me 10K GBP?  

My brother isnt pleased with Chamakh's signing, he wants one of Dzeko or Benzema instead and TBH, either of those 2 would be nice, he is afraid one of Manure or Chelsea could go for one of those 2 guys. 

Here are his stats on why he thinks Chamack isn't an ideal signing for us:

[Quote]
My people,

I have decided to compare his output to that of some other good strikers, 

08/09 Season, 

Edin Dzeko : - 30 games  - 30 goals & 6 assists (Wolfsburg won the league)

David Villa : 59 games - 49 goals & 8 assists (Valencia finished outside the top 4)

Chamakh : 31 games - 13 goals & 6 assists(Bordeaux won the league)


09/10 Season, 

Edin Dzeko : 29 games - 16 goals & 7 assists (Wolfsburg are midtable this season)

David Villa : 35 games - 28 goals & 6 asists( Valencia are in 3rd position)

Chamakh : 26 games - 10 goals & 1 assist(bordeaux are 3 points clear in the French league)

- Now there is something important to note here for starters the French league is weaker than the EPL, Die Bundesliga & La liga.

I have seen Chamakh a few times and IMHO he is only good enough to be a squad player at the Emirates. Wenger could possibly be looking for the guy to be back up to Rvp, but is he the striker that will put up Torres/Rooney/Drogba type numbers, I think not, the best thing about Chamakh is that he is free, and can play the lone striker role very well, this dude aint prolific at all!

The contract I am hearing they signed him on i.e £10.4m over 4 years is suggesting he is coming to lead the line, I dont like the sound of it at all. This is a player on the Adebayor level at best IMHO,[/quote]I partially agree with him but then Free transfer compared to 25+m no be moimoi, maybe we can still get Villa though as Arsene did say he tried to sign him in January but wouldn't that be overkill? 

debosky:
@ Dudu
Abramovic's arrival is the weak excuse we keep hearing. Did Abramovich stop Liverpool from winning the CL in 2005? Did it stop them from making another final appearance a few years after that?  How much have Liverpool spent compared to us? 

Liverpool won the CL in 2005 when we also won the FA cup last, they then won the FA cup in the season after that when we also unfortunately lost to Barcelona in the final but since that time, what has either team won? and would you at present in all honesty say that Liverpool is better off than we are? I can tell you that most liverpool fans are looking at our youngsters with envy, like I said it all depends how each club chooses to use its resources afterall I remember most fans blaming Arsene for not shelling out 25m for Torres (a decision that has not brought liverpool any silverware and blows the whole buy big to win idea to smithereens)

debosky:
Arsenal has been underperforming - that is the reality. Holding on to 07/08 and 05/06 is well and good, but what happened in 06/07?  CC final right? moving to a new stadium right? All well and good.

The nature of the abject failures in 08/09 are enough to make anyone feel this system is not working - you still end up losing one or two vital cogs in the summer and that gap is never filled. In after 07/08 we lost Flamini, Hleb and Gilberto. After 08/09 we lost Ade and Kolo, and only replaced Kolo. If we end up trophy-less this season again (as it appears will happen) we're on course to lose another 'big' player - Gallas, Arshavin or Cesc or a combination of the three.

I agree with you that we took some steps backwards after the 07/08 season, but overall between 2005 and now we have created a very good foundation for the club. and I don't believe we will lose another big player or that if we do lose any of our big players that they wouldn't be replaced easily. The most important thing we've done is to achieve real strength in depth without having to spend big to achieve this and things are now looking rosy on the financial front while most other clubs are complaining. We can't lose Song, Diaby and Cesc all at the same time and neither will we lose Vela, Bendtner and Walcott at the same time. It is even more difficult for anyone to get them off us now without having to shell out a large amount of money. I dare say that the barest minimum it would take to pry Cesc of our hands is about 40m and I don't see any club offering that in this season of belt tightening or us not being able to go out and buy big with that kind of money.

debosky:
PS - Utd have always spent big, so claiming they started spending to 'match' Chelski is disingenuous - they bought Stam, Bellion, Djemba-Djemba, Veron, RVN among other big name expenditures during the period when we were going head to head for titles - as a result, it was no surprise for them to pay so much for Rooney, Hargo and Rio after that period.

Utd will continue to be able to buy players as their bond deal frees up their cash to continue to buy players. If we fail to buy the marquee players to give us the edge, or at least show sufficient desire to win or pick up a 'minor' trophy like the FA cup (NOT CC) we will end up going through the same cycle yet again. Their youth players are often better than ours, especially in defence, and they have as good as, if not a better pull for young British talent. They are able to keep squad members happy, even when not playing frequently - we seem to lack that ability.

The best teams keep their best players, and only sell when they are confident they have sufficient replacements - not Arsenal! We sell too early and end up spending the next 18 months building up someone to take up the same role, after which we repeat the same flaw in yet another part of the team.

We keep being in the 'nearly there' mode. . . .till we find a solution to that, I forsee losing someone integral yet again and being back to square one.

Yes, Manure has always bought big, we've also bought big (relatively) in the past, the bar was raised with the emergence of Chelsea and it became obvious we couldn't continue that with paying back for the stadium so we focused on developing youth. In order to develop youth however, you've got to expose them early to the type of opposition they would be facing which is why the likes of Cesc, Song and Diaby formed our Carling cup team and we've continued to use that competition as a testing ground for youth.
We initially started our youth policy with predominantly English youth (Sidwell, Thomas, Upson, Bentley and co) but with the restrictions on the distances you live from an academy in place preventing us from getting the best youth in England, we had to look abroad (hence the likes of Cesc, Clichy, Song, Bendtner e.t.c.)

For every Bentley and Cashley that leaves, there will be a Clichy and RVP who will resist the overtures of other clubs and stay. In the 07/08 season, we had the 4 musketeers (Rozza, Hleb, Cesc and Flamini) but in 09/10 we now have over 6(add Song, Diaby, Ramsey, Arshavin to the remaining 2) and you've still got the likes of Eastmond and Wilshere waiting in the background and the likes of Lansbury and JET eagerly awaiting a look in if that isn't a step forward for the club, I wonder what is.

Now we definitely can't be silly enough to let all of them go at the same time now can we?
The future is rosy I tell you, just keep the faith.

loyika:
P.S. Could one of you brilliant guys give me a list of the Under 17 Naija team with their ages (Real or otherwise )

That one go hard small, age is nothing at all in Nigeria, it is not even a number.

I agree there is a middle ground to be reached, with Debosky perhaps but not with Sauron or Dayo. We can only reexamine after the fact what signings could and should have been made. We do have 8 players above 25 who we largely got for what some would term "peanuts" even though we do pay them well like Sauron rightly pointed out.
The fact still remains Chelsea and Manure have well outspent us and possibly deserved their short term success. Going forwards its however a different matter entirely and that is what the team has to show in the coming weeks. There must be some heavy metal at the emirates this season.

@Slimshay

I just felt that a whole lot of facts get lost amidst this noise about absence of trophies, it takes someone willing to consider the prevailing circumstances to dig out the truth. Some of the points may be right about Arsene not buying this player or that player true enough but all things considered, not many managers I know would have kept standards at a reasonably high level (reached a UCL final and missed winning the league by 4 points) within such constraints as Arsene had to work with or even had the courage to undertake such a policy within the outspend your opponent culture which people have now realised doesn't work in the long term even if it does win you some trophies like Chelsea.

Eastbay:
duduspace,
Not meaning to put words in your mouth, but I'm just trying to get my point across.
We are not comparing respective club youth policies.And I think that's where you are getting the argument wrong.Nobody says it's not right to put youth into consideration when building a squad,but truth is even those who came through the ranks at Arsenal,only Fab4 and to some extent Diaby,can claim to be established enough for AW to bank on.
As for the U-21s you listed,we ll and good,but you and I know they won't be called on by AW when the going gets tough.Of course,the learning experience is vital.
Besides,AW has been in rebuilding mode since God-knows-when.Arsene W tends to be more a business man than a coach.Not bashing any of his competencies,but I think it's time he focussed on transforming some of those talents into world-beaters rather than saving money for the club,as it's not his primary role.
We all know what happened at United:how Giggs,Neville,Scholes,Butt and Beckham became the bedrock for years for United.We don't see that happening to Arsenal.That's a youth poilcy that reaps rewards.Any other thing/stat before that is just for record purposes

That is the tag the media have labelled him with but a lot of them are now beginning to see reason with his initiative primary among them is Gary Lineker (just check out his recent post that had Sauron hot and bothered recently). One thing I would agree with Sauron is that Fergie was the first to start a youth policy (but the point is, his youth policy has presently taking a back seat so that he could compete with Chelsea), it was much easier to adhere to a youth policy before Abrahamovic came, The popular Fergie's fledgelings that won the 95/96 premier league had an avg age of 24, but I believe they didn't even have to battle a team put together with an investment close to 300m over a 3 year period in buying players alone.

What Arsene and the board have done is:
1. Show that a youth policy can still be actualised within the present dispensation.
2. Run the club as a going concern with a sustainable model.
3. Show that the board and manager can work hand in hand to achieve this goal, and not the manager working at variance with the board and calling for big name signings (and probably taking bung and dodging tax like our dear neighbor's manager) even if it would bankrupt the club.

I agree totally that Arsenal has to start winning trophies as soon as possible, but with what I see on ground, we have put ourselves in a very good position to begin doing exactly that.

debosky:
Let's not fudge statistics - you can't really count players who've barely stepped on the pitch for cameo appearances like Wilshire and Eastmond - they've played peripheral roles in our season.
The bulk of this side has been much older, especially in defence, and even attack as well.

How can you say this when the Likes of Gibbs and Traore have between them played more than Clichy who is supposed to be the first teamer for the left back? or when someone like Ramsey at 18 had 10 starts in MF when even the bulk of the MF itself is below 23?

debosky:
It is a pointless statistic in a sense because we know not all of the so called youth players will make it, we carry them for a couple of years then get rid of them - like we did for Hoyte, Owusu-Abieye and Lupoli. 'Youth' indeed.

That is the price to gain for employing a youth strategy, nothing ventured nothing gained. For every Hoyte, there is a Gibbs and for every Lupoli, there is a Bendtner. The alternative, go and borrow money like Manure or beg an Abrahamovic to come buy you. SIMPLES.

debosky:
The other clubs are NOT going to lie idle and allow Arsenal to take over. . . it won't happen. We've been waiting for years for this 'change' to happen, but it hasn't, while we continue to lose players in the interim and rebuild again and again. If we don't win something to at least hold on to some of these players, we'll ALWAYS be one or two players short.

I agree with you that the other clubs won't lie idle while we build, we haven't fallen short of anyone apart from those 2 clubs and their spending has been shown to be unsustainable. We are looking very good going forwards, I expect Manure to still be thereabouts (as their youth policy is only a bit behind ours and Villa) but Chelsea will be in serious trouble in a few years time without some serious injection of cash, I expected their performances to drop this season but so far its looked like they want to go out with a last hurrah, lets see if they can handle the load of the UCL restart along with prosecuting an FA cup campaign while still keeping their premiership push alive with those rapidly tiring legs.

Eastbay:
@duduspace,
I think you're shifting the goalposts on this "young" team issue.
First it was 18-21.Now it's below 23.
The core Arsenal side today cannot be termed as "young" as you would want us to believe (i.e. average age of 21)
United fielded the only teenager in that game against Arsenal.Besides,you raise the issue of the "youths" United used in winning the league in 06/07 and how much they cost.I think it's a matter of foresight really.If Arsene really wants to win,money shouldn't really be an object to purchase decent young talent.If Fergie got those players at the price they did and they went on to win the UCL and Premier League in the same season,I think it was worth it in the end.
Besides,the 10 players under 21 (who are they by the way?Maybe Vela and Merida but who are the rest?) could easily be players who have featured in garbage time (i.e. when the games have been won and lost).I do not believe those players are the ones Wenger seriously had in mind to prosecute this season's campaign.If that is the basis of your argument/defence for Wenger and his youth policy,I have to disagree with you.

You are putting words in my mouth now Eastbay, I have never said anything about 18-21 (even though the likes of Diaby, Song and Fabregas came into our first team while in that age range anyway, Cesc was already a major squad player at 17) and you totally miss the point about money not being a factor while chasing trophies(try telling that to Portsmouth's fans), all I said was that Manure are welcomed to their trophies because they paid for them, now let them go and carry the can of paying interest on the money they borrowed, We have gone with a different strategy which has taken a period of time to come through but the only amount we owe was spent on our stadium which is now a cash cow able to more than pay for itself.

What Arsene had in mind and what is happening are 2 different issues, Arsene had in mind probably that RVP would play between 25 - 30 games this season but that is not happening is it?

The 10 players under 21 are:

Name             Age                     Starts                Subs

Walcott          20                        6                      9
Merida            20                        4                      3
Ramsey           19                       10                    17
Gibbs              20                        7                     0
Vela               20                        5                     11
Eastmond        19                        4                     2
Traore             20                       11                    0
Coquelin          18                        2                      1
JET                 18                       1                       0
Wilshere           18                       5                       3

Total                                         55                      46

That is a whole lot of appearances in the first team up there and Manure's youth appearances pale in comparison (almost double in starts and over triple in substitue appearances.

Rafael             19              11                0
Danny Welbeck     19              7                        4
Federico Macheda     18      4                        1
Gabriel Obertan     20              5                        6
Fabio Da Silva     19              3                        1

Total                                       30                      12

@Debosky
It is not about a single team we put out, it is about our squad as a whole, our players arent really known for staying fit all season anyway. Show me any other team in the premiership that has so far had 10 players 21 years old and younger represent them this season. The only team with an average age younger than ours in the PL is Wolves and everyone can see where they are in the table.
I am not saying this is an excuse for not winning though, just pointing out that the youth policy was a strategic decision by the club when they knew they couldn't compete in the spending stakes with the likes of Manure and chelsea.
If the young boys are good enough, they will still win or at least be thereabouts.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5512798#msg5512798 date=1266177974]Rubbish!
United's kids won the league in 2005/6. . . . .Arsenal kids are yet to win any title since Wenger started his moronic youth policy he copied from SAF.
I can understand the EPL being a tough task. How come these baby gooners are yet to even win the Carling cup or the FA cup?
Arsenal kids are shyte!!![/quote]Go get a clue Sauron, there were only 2 players in their early 20s you could call kids in the 2006/07 manure squad, Rooney and Ronaldo and how much did they cost Manure combined again? about 40m.
Cesc Fabregas has been one of our major midfield player since before his 19th birthday. Even the so called Fergie's fledglings were in their early 20s (Giggs 23 and the others between 20-22) when they won the league in 95/96, which places them in exactly the same age range as the likes of Diaby and Song if they were to win the league this season.
Only difference I see is that I'm sure they were the youngest players in that squad as no other notable youngsters have come out of the Manure academy since that particular group while we have still got even much younger players appearing in our first team squad like Ramsey and others. Also I recall that particular squad being thumped 4-1 at their direct rivals like Spurs that season, they even started the season with a 3-1 loss at Aston Villa which prompted the quote by Alan Hansen. You write off our youngsters at your peril.

@Dayokanu

Stop being myopic in your analysis, we are talking of performance over time with a squad and not a single match or even 2 matches. In case you didn't know, in the first season that manure team won the premiership, we beat them both home and away. Also in the squads you put up we still had more players 23 years and under, 5 to their 3. Go and look at the age distribution or at least dispute it and stop yarning opaks like a market woman.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=362333.msg5510790#msg5510790 date=1266118722]If the profit is being ploughed back into the club is it used to service debts or sign minors from Nicaragua?? Or both?? All these things should be the job of the GM and not Wenger and with that we are already giving him an alibi for failure!! No wonder we have not been able to work on our on-field issues[/quote]This way of thinking is exactly why some clubs are fighting administration while others are heavily in debt, the work of the manager in my opinion is to work with the board to either make the club better than it is when he came in or leave it in the same state he met it, not just to "Win Silverware". Arsene has done the former and that is why the board who are the custodians of the club have never complained about him. Not because they don't want silverware as well as you do but because they are aware of the constraints Arsene is working with. You should ask yourself why Real Madrid still approached Arsene to come be their manager as recently as last summer if he is as clueless as yu're making him out to be.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=362333.msg5510790#msg5510790 date=1266118722]How much did Mike Ashley invest in Newcastle Compared to his mates?? Besides he obviously was too hands-on in his approach for someone who knew precious little about football.[/quote]No matter how little he invested, he deserved the respect of the fans being the custodian of the club. They woke up and smelt the coffee this season after all their noise about being a big club last season when they realised there was no one willing to buy the club off Ashley. Do you see them demonstrating against Ashley now? The moral of the story is, appreciate those who pay the bills to maintain your club as the alternative is not always better than what you have. I hope Manure fans will learn from this and stop giving the Glazers grief, it is in their power to wreck that club with dubious policies and they shouldn't be given any more reasons to do so along with the ones they already have.


[quote author=A-40 link=topic=362333.msg5510790#msg5510790 date=1266118722]I am not belittling Arsenal or Arsene!! I am venting my frustrations at a man who seemingly has not learn from his past mistakes. Policy or no policy Arsenal should be doing better than they are now! Maybe you believe in patting backs and massaging egos i believe in tough love. I will in no wise kiss a.s.s and not point out whats wrong so we can move forward that has not been working for a while now
Its not just about money to blow. Ranieri also blew money with Chelsea and didn't win much well maybe not as much money as Mourinho but my point is our problem is not just the money or the lack thereof. Its about a deep lying mentality that is lacking a problem that this strategy or youth policy would not solve barring any changes to our methodology. I am proud our style of play yes but we never seem to have a Plan B when faced with adversity. This is not a problem any billionaire can solve.[/quote]It is well and good to vent your frustrations at the club, all I've requested is that yu shld not throw the baby out with the bath water, there are a lot of positives in our club that what I call "The whiner's brigade" are all too hasty to forget about. Keep perspective is all I ask, you definitely have seen me complaining on this forum haven't yu? but it does take understanding what the club is willing to stand for. Silverware is not anyone's right and that is a fact.


[quote author=A-40 link=topic=362333.msg5510790#msg5510790 date=1266118722]The major difference between us winning and losing the league in the past couple of seasons has been defence!! This is an issue i have raised a gazillion times! We have seen teams with even more meagre resources outperforming us in that area in recent times. Are any steps being taken to remedy that??[/quote]I think you mean outperforming us in the defence and not outperforming us as a whole? cos the former might be true but the latter is definitely untrue. If you consider Portsmouth's FA Cup or Tottenham's carling cup as outperforming us, then lets agree to disagree about that.


[quote author=A-40 link=topic=362333.msg5510790#msg5510790 date=1266118722]So who are the inexperienced fellas in the current Arsenal setup?? And how many more years do we wait for them to mature and gain that "Requisite Experience" A sizeable bunch are in their third or fourth season at Arsenal already. There are a lot of other clubs that have embraced a youth policy but still take out time to do the right thing when they are supposed to which is buy the right kind of players to compliment the team. Our youth policy sef is not full-fledged and encompassing there are still a few old heads in our team or peeps that where bought from other clubs. And if we want to talk about Europe please lets not go there our record amongst England's big four is nothing to write home about! We are the only team that has lost to every member of the big four in that competition. They might be high standards to you but to me they are not high enough[/quote]Take a look at the age distribution I put up above and yu'll see where the inexperience and age issues come from. Embracing a youth policy does not mean all your squad has to be below a certain age, its got to do with the bulk of the squad. Our squad presently has close to about 60% of its playing squad under 23 years old. If that is not a youth policy, please tell me what a youth policy is.


[quote author=A-40 link=topic=362333.msg5510790#msg5510790 date=1266118722]The team has performed better because our midfield has been providing more than its own fair share of goals! The attack was not doing too badly till RVP went down with injury read my post well i did not say we should not have sold Ade and Toure all i am saying is get better replacements for them and not osho-free and 750,000 pound players!! Yes we are in contention but all that could change very quickly with injury to any of Gallas and Vermaelen and then the season would end again and y'all would still come and sing that "Youth Policy" hook again for us. Who are the other players that where given the longer term contracts? Do they get paid in lump sums or is it not a rolling thing?
I tend to see it as an excuse when season after season i see the same errors made and i see the same manager unwilling to address these issues and make requisite changes. That i make criticisms here and there and point out areas we urgently need to improve to end this drought does not make me less of a fan and if your idea of being a fan is to shy away from the truth then i am sorry we are unlikely to ever agree on much as regards Arsenal[/quote]It hasn't been season after season since Arsene joined the club, it has only been after Abrahamovic's money came to upset the prevailing dynamics of the premiership. Arsene has won (a lot) before even though it may now be a bit distant to a number of fans, and I do beleive he will win again once this youth policy begins to bear fruit which in my opinion might be as soon as this season but no later than next season. Chelsea in 2 season's time will need cash injection of at least another 150m to be able to keep up a semblance of their present level of performance and they had to have the initial investment of about 450m written off just to balance the books. Manure had to go borrow 500m from the bond market to stave off their high interest payments on what they borrowed before, I maintain that these are the only 2 clubs in the PL who have outperformed us during this period (2005 - 2009) and they've paid the price to do that, we look better going forwards than either of these 2 clubs and that is definitely not the work of an idiot, the work of a genius is more like it, I am happy Arsenal has a Manager called Arsene Wenger.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5510174#msg5510174 date=1266101934]The thunk of Rooney @ 28 gives me the shivers.
I actually think because Rooney started earlier he would burn out before 28. . . .prolly get crocked for life or he will just turn shyte.[/quote]I don't think this can happen, Rooney is that special blend of hustle, skill and heart that doesn't come along often, IMO he is almost like Diego Maradona, if his work rate drops he still has his skill to fall back on and still make an impact. I see him playing well into his 30s.

[quote author=kay_pumpin link=topic=362333.msg5509779#msg5509779 date=1266097346]@Dudu

Where i personally find the youth mantra ridiculous is in the area of Wenger refusing blatantly to ADD experience when it is EXTREMELY needed.The mistake was glaring in 07/08,made worse by the fact Flamini and Hleb were allowed to leave at the beginning of last season and yet again we are in the same TRAP right now.Everyone and his dog knows getting an attacker will add an impetus to our campaign this season but what do we have?

It's a bit "luxurious" to always use the youth policy as a leeway and i think it's over played.You may want to read the below excerpt:

That is from the club captain.Enough said.

I was talking to a friend in France sometimes ago about how i think our whole set up needs a correct atmosphere.Believe me,even the kids at Man U are not extra-ordinary but the winning mentality the senior squad has is an added advantage to the up coming lads.This present team needs to win something,anything to know how it feels to be a winner.[/quote]I am proud of Cesc making that statement, I would have been disappointed in our captain hiding behind age as an excuse for not winning, that is the winning mentality we want. The demand on the team has always been trophies and in truth the team is no longer as young as it once was, they are in the frame to start winning things now and that is the spirit the players should exemplify.
Most of the time, the spirit of a team is exemplified by one player, in the case of Arsenal, it has been Cesc ever since PV4 left, that player is still only 22 years old and he beleives the time has come to start winning.
The manure team has won before and still has largely, the same core that has won in the past. With each passing season, the playing field is levelled and I see it tilting in our favour very soon, there is only one way left for this team and that is upwards.
You are very right that once this team wins something which I hope would be this season, the whole dynamics of the PL changes from there on.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5509784#msg5509784 date=1266097376]Come to think of it, Belgium will be a world superpower by 2014 with the young players coming through in that country.

Vermaelen
De Laet
Fellaini
Kompany
Eden Hazard
Defour
Witsel
Dembele[/quote]They are exactly like the Arsenal team at present, so much quality but have maturity issues, you wonder how they did so badly in their group for the world cup qualifiers, they are about to turn a corner though and I definitely will look forward to seeing them in the 2012 euros.

@eastbay
incase you're still wondering about that youth policy thing, maybe this will enlighten you more:

Distribution of outfield player ages (Players who have represented their club in the PL this season) in the top 3 Premier league clubs (data from soccernet)

           Manure          Chelsea           Arsenal

Above 25     13               16                 8
23-25            3                2                  3
21-23            5                2                  5
Below 21       5                4                 10

Total             26                24               26

(%<23)       39%               25%              58%


Notice anything? yu should now understand what people mean when they say each passing year favours Arsenal and is detrimental to Chelsea, by the way, a great proportion of those 16 chelsea players are above 30 years old.

Eastbay:
Beats me oh!
Please this fallacy about Arsenal and their youth policy is over-stretched.Whenever I hear the usual mantra stating that Arsenal are a young team,I start to wonder if it is a relative term.Because some of these grandpas you mentioned make this their ÿoung team"talk quite laughable.

How can you see it when you only deal with the extremes? , did any statistics before? do the terms mean, median and mode mean anything to you? They say we only cram to pass examinations in Nigeria and don't do any lifelong learning, I hope you are not confirming that hypothesis. A dusting up of your old New General mathematics textbook might be in order.

chic2pimp:
The difference was that Man united's 95/96 was a mix of youth and experience.
After all they had Schemichel in goal, Bruce & Pallister in defence, Keane in midfield and cantona upfront.
Wengay on the other is hell bent on winning with kids.

I totally disagree, the difference was the absence of Abrahamovic's millions, and the other unsustainable ways clubs went about prosecuting campaigns all in the name of winning trophies. I'm glad some sanity is returning.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5509079#msg5509079 date=1266088017]There's nothing strategic in what Wenger is doing. . . . .He is getting the stick for it even from Arsenal die-hard fans.
I will post Myles Palmer's review or Piers Morgan's view on the way things have gone belly up at the Emirates.[/quote]Myles Palmer has always been a thorn in Arsene's flesh, at Arsenal people are allowed to hold their views whether supporting or dissenting without the fear of having boots kicked at 'em.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5509079#msg5509079 date=1266088017]Your youth policy is shyte.[/quote]Your debt policy is shyte and will be your undoing.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5509079#msg5509079 date=1266088017]Hehehe. . . . .U should begrudge our trophies and don't make a tool of yourself comparing Man Utd with Chelsea or other clubs.
United spend the money the club makes(no sugar daddies), those funds were generated organically by the club via their success on the pitch.
Your squad is younger but they are not up to the task. Look at Walcott for example. . . .Is he improving or deteriorating? [/quote]Why did yu sell to the Glazers in the first instance? was it not to be competitive with the financial power of Abrahamovic's Chelsea? and didn't they inject money into the club? or where did yu get the money to buy Rooney, Berbatov and to nick CR7 off us? only you forgot there could be a sting in the tail. Enjoy your trophies, you are not likely to have many of them in the future and your debt burden will surely grow.
Walcot has a lot of time to put his injury worries and loss of form behind him, we are not worried at all (Quoting Arsene) and if he choses not to, we've got Vela, JET, Wilshere, Watt, Lansbury e.t.c all snapping at the bit if he doesn't take his opportunity.


[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5509079#msg5509079 date=1266088017]What has United's debt gotta do with trophies? Has it stopped the club from buying players?
Chelsea did not win a league title last season but they still made £87 million from prize money. If United finish trophyless, they will still rake in more money than Arsenal winning the TREBLE. We are the most supported club in Europe, TV/Media show more United games than any other club in the EPL so there's no limit to this!!![/quote]Good for you but yu're still going to the bond market to borrow aint you?

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5509079#msg5509079 date=1266088017]So you are saying £22.2m difference is enough to keep y'all TROPHYLESS and make United TROPHYFUL?
Are you aware £22m is like (Hargreaves + Tosic)?
Profit in player purchasing? Of course, for a selling club like Arsenal, you expect em to be a feeder team to big clubs like Man City.
Profits made in player purchases has nothing to do with your wage bill.[/quote]Stop speakin like a dummy Sauron, yu're smarter than that. The wage bill is not the only expenditure that goes towards the playing personel.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5509079#msg5509079 date=1266088017]Outspend signficantly?
Chelsea have outspent Man Utd but did that stop United from winning 3 league titles in a row?
Did Chelsea's multi-million pound squad stop United from winning the UCL in Moscow? Abeg, WENGER has no excuse. . . .He is a FAILURE.[/quote]I agree Chelsea are the greatest spendthrifts and if we factor in the law of diminishing returns, it is no surprise that their outspending you has not won them the league in the last 3 years even though it has brought some FA and Carling cups their way.
You however come a close second though I'm not sure if the other half of manchester have now knocked you off that perch.
Methinks even the honourable Sir Fergie has come to the conclusion that this is not the best way to compete and returned to his initial youth oriented principles but I think we've already got a headstart on yous, thats my hypothesis anyway but the future will tell.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5509079#msg5509079 date=1266088017]Bring it ON!!!
All i know is the United team that started against Arsenal a fortnight ago were less expensive than the Starting XI of Wenger's Salvation Army team.[/quote]and what of the price of the one that beat yu at the emirates last season? we are not talking of the value of squads in a single match here but of the entire team over a period of time.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5509079#msg5509079 date=1266088017]Arsenal are small time.
Wenger took the easier option. If i lose, i can always blame it on lack of funds and inexperienced players.
He now plays beautiful football to console himself when his peers are winning trophies to show for their hard-work.[/quote]If we really are small time, we wouldn't be discussin as I don't see you bothering with say a Stoke supporter or even a City or Everton Supporter.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5509079#msg5509079 date=1266088017]I have!!!
Facts have shown there's no considerable difference in the wages United n Arsenal pay their players.
United win trophies, Arsenal don't and we are talking about £20 million difference here. Is that an excuse?[/quote]You have done nothing of the sort,think again Sauron, are wages the only expenditure that go towards your playing staff? besides why wouldn't Arsenal's wages be commesurate with yours? so that you can nick our players perhaps?
Wages might not make a big difference true enough but about a 100m difference in expenditure on players is bound to make a huge difference over time except you are planning to rewrite every known law of economics.

dayokanu:
Portsmouth too has a project, everyone has a project

True enough, only that some projects end up in debt while some keep the club afloat. Permit me also to steal your thunder cos I expect you to come back with the fact that some projects end up with trophies while others don't, to that all I say is the future will tell.

dayokanu:
Everyone knows Arsenal fans are the closest noun to DEMENTIA. AC Milan too had points docked for Match fixing everyone knows but a GAYYner

My mistake, I obviously overestimated the IQ of our resident Nazi, the whole point behind that statement was to query the outcome of a process known to be tainted, why should we draw any conclusions from a league we now know to have been subject to manipulation? It wasn't about who got docked points. Seems I expected too much from you Dayo.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5506530#msg5506530 date=1266058142]What has this gotta do with competing in the Premier League. It seems Wenger has pulled the wool over your eyes with this youth policy rubbish.
Lamenting that Arsenal have an average age of 23, while their opponents is 29 is a tad moronic.  This is NOT a matter beyond Wenger's control. Who was it that signed all those young and inexperienced players to begin with?[/quote]Noone is lamenting, even if the press phrase it as a lamentation, go and listen to Arsene's press conferences in full. It was a strategic decision by the club and one they are sticking with. It has kept the club in good stead.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5506530#msg5506530 date=1266058142]Arsenal lack experience but it should not be used as an excuse.
Wenger cannot have it both ways. Irrespective of the club’s financial constraints, Arsenal’s lack of experience is down to him.
His kids can never win the Premiership cos this grooming did not start in 2009. He's been on it since the death of the INVINCIBLES and we are yet to see any remarkable improvement since then.[/quote]We are saying the same thing in different ways, yu see it as a negative because we've not won anything so far, I see it as a positive that our youth policy is about to come to fruition and I never said the grooming started in 2009. is it possible to actualise a youth polcy in one year? can you point out any club who did this in this outgoing era of free flowing money? I would rather credit Arsene that he made us punch above our weight during the transition period such that a lot of fans didn't even realise we were undergoing a mssive change in our team building policy, because the standards and demands on the team were never compromised.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5506530#msg5506530 date=1266058142]The difference in expenditure means shyte, get some perspective and stop debating like a geriatric drunk.
It's all about TIME/MONEY concept. Wenger buys em cheap at a young age and develops them. Others buy them at a ripe age and expect instant results. 5 years down the line, United and Chelsea have something to show for their expenditure whilst Arsene Wenger is still struggling to win something with the kids he has been developing for the past FIVE YEARS. U cannot focus on the money spent getting these players without accounting for the TIME spent in grooming them.[/quote]Definitely, it is about the Time/Money concept and that is why Arsenal is now making profit despite having built a stadium while both Chelsea and Manure have struggeled with debt in recent times. You've got yur trophies and I've never begrudged manure of them, they've paid for them and will continue to pay into the future, our squad is younger and rapidly maturing now with a vibrant academy in place to keep on churning out players for the first team. Now if only most of the moaning Arsenal fans understood that, we would have less arguments and all but maybe it is good for everyone concerned, like my younger brother always says "Win or lose, the Premiership has always got to be about the Arsenal". You can't say that about most clubs now can you?


[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5506530#msg5506530 date=1266058142]What is the advantage in signing Wellington and Galindo when United tapped into the Brazilian market way before Wenger's scouts ever did.
Go and read about Traffic Football Management that gives Alex Ferguson the first option on more than 200 Brazilian teenagers being groomed for European football in a Sao Paulo academy run by World Cup winner Carlos Alberto Parreira.[/quote]Good for you, now will you please go and start integrating more of these budding stars into your team like the Da Silva brothers, maybe that will help in reducing your debt burden further. Oops sorry, the Glazers can't do that because the whole model is based on having to always win something yearly so as to have money to service your debt. When will this vicious circle end? or more importantly what will happen if we or Chelsea win the PL this season and yu end up with nothing?

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5506530#msg5506530 date=1266058142]Conveniently omitting/doctoring the wages of flops like Eduardo(£8m), Walcott(£12m), Denilson(£3.5 million), Nasri(£15.8million).
Besides that, only a complete slowpoke will value the current Arsenal side based on the transfer fees paid for them after over 5 years without putting appreciation and the time wasted on their development into the equation.
Does Van Persie still play like a player bought for £2.75m after 6 years?[/quote]True enough and thank you for being kind enough to give us the data on the wages which if added on to the transfer values still gives us the following information.

Wagebill over a 3 year period of complete info supplied by Sauron
Chelsea       418.9
Manure        298.7
Arsenal       276.5

Still gives us a surplus of 22.2m against you and 142.4 m against Chelsea. You can add this to the gains in player purchasing when considering the business as a whole or are yu implying that the 2 exist in isolation? This shouldn't trouble you however Sauron you've got your trophies to show for it. You should however notice the increase year upon year in the difference between our wage bills (I expect it to be at least 25m by the time yu have the data for 08/09 season). Bottomline is you've still outspent us significantly.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5506530#msg5506530 date=1266058142]Giggs/Scholes who were signed free were conveniently omitted so you can drive your points home, abi?
Rio and Vidic who have barely played football this season and they have been replaced by Brown/Evans(signed FREE), why omit them?
What a dodgy twunt!!!
Rio was bought for £30 million 8 years ago. I am sure Arsenal have spent more than that in the same position in the past 8 years(Toure + Cygan + Senderos + Gallas + Vermaelen).[/quote]Oh, you thot I was borrowing a leaf from Sauron's Manual of "Manipulating Dodgy statistics for argumentative purposes"? I assure you nothing could be further from the truth, I was only limited by time, effort and available information so I picked what could be likened to a typical matchday 1st team squad. If you like we can do this again and I even concede the right to set a rule for the information to be supplied (for example, an analysis of the 11 most expensive players in the squad perhaps?). Whichever way we do it, I'm sure the facts would still be very apparent.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=362333.msg5506530#msg5506530 date=1266058142]Rubbish!!!
No one forced Wenger to sign embryos in Arsenal.
The Premier League is not an age-grade competition.  Learn the concept of appreciation in assets.[/quote]I'm in total agreement with you here bar the snide remarks on Arsene which I've removed. My original post was an attempt to illustrate the strategic direction the club took starting from the end of the invicibles era(possibly conceived even before then) to A-40. The concept of appreciation in assests is exactly what the club is banking its future on to ensure the club retains its big club status without going into debt or selling out to a benefactor. Strip away all your wisecracks and chest thumping, have you proved anything to the contrary? methinks not.

@A-40
If you still don't believe what I've written above about the youth policy being a strategic decision, here is an analysis of the purchase values of the current first team squads of the top 3 clubs, in these first teams Arsenal has 6 players who were aged 21 and below when they joined the club, manure has 4 and Chelsea has only 2. I haven't even considered bringing in the reserves of which everyone knows that most Arsenal squad players are Under 21 years of age once you remove Silvestre, Eboue, Fabianski and Big Sol.
This has only considered the Transfer figures and not the wages, now can you see the scale of the diffference in expenditure to buy players between ourselves and our direct competitors? can you think on any reason why we should even think of comparing ourselves to them if monetary value of players is the only way by which success can be achieved on the playing field?
I dare say that only a board of lunatics will ever think of sacking a coach who has managed to achieve this, the good thing is we have closed the gap and made money in the process to stand the club in good stead going forwards, our direct competitors know this and even they have stopped the spending spree, the recent major purchases by both clubs have been in the youth age frame (Sturridge by Chelsea and Smalling by Manure) showing a shift in the strategy of these clubs in terms of player purchasing, the major advantage we have over them now is our scouting network that has landed the likes of Wellington and Galindo.
I suggest you take time to do some research for yourself and not swallow the lies of the british media or die hard Arsenal haterz like Dayokanu and Sauron.



Robin Van Persie     2.75
Arshavin             15
Vermaelen            10
Fabregas             .5
Gallas               0 + 5m
Sagna                8
Clichy               .5
Song                 1
Nasri                12
Diaby                2
Almunia              1

Total                52.75m


Van Der Sar          2
Evra                 5.5 
Ferdinand            30
Vidic                7
Rafael               0 Unknown
Carrick              18.6
Fletcher             0
Rooney               25.6
Nani                 15
Valencia             16
Berbatov             30

Total                149.7m


Cech                  7
Ashley Cole        11.5 (actually Gallas + 5m)
Terry                  0
Carvalho            19.8
Bosingwa           16
Mikel                  16
Lampard             11
Malouda             13.5
Joe Cole             6.6
Drogba              24
Anelka               15

total                140.4m

Note: I expect Sauron to see this and start his chest beating that Manure's expenditure was worth it with the silverware they've got and maybe he is right as I believe there is a price to pay for every strategic decision an entity makes, our project has not brought us silverware in the past but I expect it to start bringing silverware very soon and will be so glad if this season is the first of many.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=362333.msg5505166#msg5505166 date=1266020043]@Duduspace
Ol boy the reason the board is sticking with Arsene is simple. Its a mutually beneficial collabo
The Board members dont wanna lose their shares
Arsene enjoys his job-security, fat pay cheque and cult figure demigod status at Arsenal
You don't need Haitian voodoo, headless chickens or ouija boards to decipher that[/quote]I don't deny most of what you say, mutually beneficial it definitely is, my question is this, are you or any of the persistent moaners the one putting the money into the club? Most of the share holders like Kroenke and co don't even draw salaries from the club and the club has never once declared a dividend to its shareholders while ploughing back all the profit back into the club, the accounts are there for all to see, Wenger gets his salary cos he does his job in implementing the club's strategy, he doesn't even have shares in the company at present because he doesn't want a conflict of interest.
The Newcastle fans made so much noise about Mike Ashley last season, are they making noise now when they are in the championship and reality dawned that noone wants to buy the club? when you see clubs falling like stones round you, please learn to appreciate what yu've got and don't belittle it, it is all well for Sauron and Dayokanu to belittle your club and manager because they want you to feel small in supporting your club, see the positives in the direction your club has taken, or if you can't see any, tone down the negative talk since you can't do much about it anyway.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=362333.msg5505166#msg5505166 date=1266020043]We dont need to sell to any damn sheikh or get neck-deep into debt to win trophies!! Our style of play if tweaked can win us things easily
This excuse of policy is just overkill. This idea of buying 100 toddlers from Sri Lanka would not solve our problem[/quote]Of course we don't need to sell to a sheikh, a lot of us don't even want any silly money bag coming to treat our club like some sort of plaything particularly these days when some sheikhs are turning out to be poorer than church rats. You are so proud of our style of play and you say it with pride but have you asked yourself if that style of play suddenly appeared out of thin air or if its the culmination or part culmination of some strategy running through the club and being pioneered by somebody? You say we don't need this or that but those who are outperforming us are exactly making use of what yu say we don't need, a rich benefactor in Abrahamovic and being neck deep in debt like Manure, can you please show me a club outperforming us and is not doing any of what you mention we don't need?


[quote author=A-40 link=topic=362333.msg5505166#msg5505166 date=1266020043]How about growing a winners mentality (Events from this season has shown me they still need classes)
Toughen up on D (We have arguably the worst defence among the top 8. A big regression from last season! So what has changed?)[/quote]A winner's mentality comes from maturity and experience, a youth policy needs time to gestate and reach that peak, it is a credit IMO to Arsene that he has guaranteed at least a minimum top 4 finish during this period while bringing us close on occasion during this time, can you show me any other club that embraced a youth policy in recent times yet has still been able to keep such high standards both domestically and in Europe?

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=362333.msg5505166#msg5505166 date=1266020043]Getting your transfers right (Sold Adebayor did not get a decent replacement and we where left with injury prone inexperienced forwards! Sold Toure and only brought in Verma then loaned Senderos and brought Grandpa Campbell on a free)[/quote]I will not comment on individual players much but i will only like to point out that for whatever reason, the team has performed better this season without Ade or Kolo Toure than it did last season, infact at the beginning of the season, a lot of fans now complaining now were applauding it like some stroke of genius.Last season we were already out of contention for the PL, the money gained from sale of those players does not necessarily have to be used to buy like for like, there are management decisions in this things involving wages, interest payments e.t.c for which I don't have enough data to determine the good or bad in these decisions. Have you considered if part or all of the money made from the sale went into giving our other players longer term contracts?

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=362333.msg5505166#msg5505166 date=1266020043]The policy is just a cover up and if the issues i just listed dont get fixed! key players just may leave the club and this so called policy may move back a few more years[/quote]If you still feel the policy is some form of cover up then I'm at the end of my tether, I will have to throw my hands up in surrender cos there isn't much more I can say, I do know however that not all of our key players can leave at the same time, I also know that the club is aware of this and this is why we are tying our young players to long term contracts.
I have never been one to bother my head about what I have no control over, the day I came to the conclusion that Arsenal had embraced a youth policy, I got interested in our youth setup and the whole academy system as a whole. The day will come when the youth that came through our youth setup like Barazite, Wilshere and co will win silverware and I would be happy to recall the days they were young lads coming through the academy or when I went to the Reebok to watch Jack Wilshere while on loan at Bolton.
I personally think that is what it means to be a fan and not only rejoicing when they win something big even though that is also an important part of it.