₦airaland Forum

@newmi

you said

Share curiosity why would you wish to know. . . . . . hmmmmmmmm
Aahhhhhha! yes so you could stage a robbery operation to prevent it?     don't worry just catching my fun

ha ha ha - maybe if you had not sold your brain to the 419 charlatans you could have come up with a witty reply.

@newmi - you said

l see you are out of ideas perhaps you own head should come out of nuclear bonboi's back

Yet you repeat my line exactly - you are a half wit 

@newmi

Shutup you dimwit - you are lecturing me on God when this fool greg247 is comparing hair frying, 'collecting money for service', fake accent Oyaks with Abraham, Elijah & John the Baptist.

Oyaks is a criminal who should be in prison - the only thing I can think of comparing him and other charlatans to - is the sticky goo I sometimes find stuck to the under of my shoes.

@ogoamaka99

@Joeagbaje.
Joe, i appreciate you for your correction.

Let us know when your head comes out from Jo's ass 

@ogoamaka99

Have you sent your seed to Ashimodollar for your 24 hours turnaround ?

@Frosbel

I would also advise caution - if not, how would you explain a natural disaster that only claimed the lives of children ?

Natural disasters are NOT caused by God to punish sin. God could easily punish the sinners individually with no 'collateral damage'.

@chukwudi44

Thank you o! The desperation of people unfortunately allows them to fall into the hands of these frauds.

@Godson2009

I believe the book is genuine for a number of reasons

1) The man with aids who was not cured has a name which can be checked.
2) The men who died from cancer are indeed dead.
3) Joshua also tried to bried Robert Beckford (a british theologian) - http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2004/jun/07/tvandradio.g2
4) Joshua can sue the authors of this book if they are lying - he has not.

In any case - why would a man of God humilate people by allowing them to expose their private parts right inside the church ?  What possible gain is there in telling people to hold up signs with their ailments written on it ? He has people do 'before' and 'after' tests in Nigeria - he does not do the same in Europe, why ? Because records are not so easily forged over here!!

Have you seen the videos where he 'fights' with demons ? He makes sound effects with his mouth - it is utter nonsense. How come the demons talk directly into the microphone ? 

This man is a charlatan there is no doubt about it .

@ogoamaka99

My concern is not what these sons of perdition are saying but my concern is on you who ought to understand that these guys have lost their mind and that they are under the influence of the devil. It is someone under the control of the devil that can open his/her mouth wide to call these great men of GOD 419, criminal, thief, rouge, devil etc. You who don’t realize the angle they are coming from and join them to make unguided and false statement against these men of GOD. Be careful and conscious of what you say against any MOG. Allow these sons of perdition to continue in their abuse of Men of GOD

Where are the great men of God - go and sit down jare. Your MOGs are nothing but thieving 419 frauds who should be in prison.

[size=14pt]419 FAKE BISHOP OLEDEPO - suffering to spread the gospel[/size] 

www.nairaland.com/attachments/425265_BISHOP_DOING_GODS_WORK_JPG7c28f2dc77cb46308999c3b400db134a

419 BENNY HINN'S COAT OF FIRE

[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9U_lWmAsYM&feature=related[/flash]

ASHIMODOLLAR - 419 MAN OF FRAUD

https://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/3d/2d/3e1c674674fd0a7e9d9a61.L._V192251489_SL290_.jpg

A VIDEO IS WORTH A MILLION WORDS - 24 hrours miracle seed

[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8YI44puWK8[/flash]

Another son of perdition said that he was raised since 2011 to expose charlatans

Are you talking about me ?

@Tee_Jay

I did not say it was mandatory.

If someone calls you my child, he has obviously assumed he is your father.

@Tee_Jay

I dont call him daddy - I had my father here on earth and I have my father in heaven. I have no personal relationship with him so calling him daddy seems a bit ridiculous.

In anycase I should have said 'I used to attend' RCCG - I will correct that.

@otitokoro1

I used to attend RCCG as well and I dont really think is is optional - he refers to the congregation as his children. He even refers to Oyedepo as his child as well 

@Papido

Thanks for your response.

Holiness is not synonymous with wealth like you rightly said but holy people have no reason to be poor. The bible said ''my people (God's own holy people) perish for lack of knowledge''. Wealth is information intensive. Whether you go to church or not, when you have the right info, you are on your way up

If we both agree that holiness is not synonymous with wealth - then why does Oyedepo talk about 'covenant seed sowing'. I have listened to him say that prayers and fasting wont bring prosperity but that tithing/giving can. Comments like this are clearly misleading and pressurize people who can least afford it into parting with even more of their hard earned cash. There will be members of the church who have been tithing and giving for years and are still dirt poor. These people after a while will start to question themselves or even more dangerously will start to doubt God. God does not transfer money to anyone - if you have a good idea, the right connections, a good education or just pure luck - you will be successful - if you dont have any of these you will most likely be poor.

Also i like you to avoid quoting Oyedepo out of context. You said you watched a sermon of his where he prayed for the destruction of enemies. Granted he said so, but that does not mean that is what he does always. We all know that there are some enemies that will not let you go unless you destroy them. Take the instance of Pharaoh and the Israelites. God was patient and gave several warnings but they didnt budge. At a point in time, even Jesus Christ asked his disciples to sell their coats and purchase swords (Luke 22:35-36) i believe for self defence. Christianity is for peace but the occasion will determine the appropriate response.

I do not believe I am quoting him out of context - the sermon was titled 'Covenant Day of Vengeance'.It was very shocking to see 50,000 people praying for the destruction of enemies. You come across as a reasonable person - I think someone like you would have been a bit hesitant about praying for the death of a fellow human being. Lets imagine my enemy is Mr T - do I then say 'God please kill Mr T!' - there is something profoundly unchristian about that. I could just have prayed 'God please dont let Mr T succeed in his attempts to get me' or better yet pray 'God plese change Mr T to a better person'. God can do anything - it does not take less effort on Gods part to destroy Mr T than to change him to a better person.

In anycase this 'Covenant Day of Vengeance' is playing to the idea that all our misfortunes are down to 'enemies' - which is one of the reasons why Africa remains backward. Good people will be sick, poor, die young etc. It does not mean anyone is after them or God is not protecting them. Some people are born disabled - do we really think it is down to enemies ? This 'enemy' thing is just one weapon in the arsenal of the prosperity guys.

On the issue of people paying tithe with credit cards, as far as i am concerned, we use debit cards (not credit cards) within Nigeria. If anyone is paying with credit card, it might be those outside the shores of Nigeria and because those advance economies discourage carrying around huge cash. They operate more of a cashless society. people who don't like debts might decide not to upset their finances by paying just for what they can immediately offset to the credit card companies at the end of the month. Under that circumstance, i think we might be flexible here and not go into debt in an attempt to pay God's share.

There is no need to accept credit cards at all - there are debit cards. If an individual is between salaries - the church should be prepared to wait until he/she gets paid to accept the tithes/offerings - There is no immediacy about giving of money to the church.If on the other hand the individual does not know where his next income is coming from - the church should NOT be taking any money from him/her. This problem is not restricted to Winners Chapel - most of the pentecostal churches seem to do it. Credit cards are the most expensive way of borrowing money - the church should not be putting people in a position where they may build up debts.

On the issue of relief in the northern parts of Nigeria, i was talking about winners chapel members who need relief from the religious extremism that caused many to lose their lives and property. He is not just helping outsiders and denying his own people. No. He is also conversant with the suffering winners. I have not heard that a sick member of the church needs to fly and that Oyedepo did not grant the use of the jet. This cannot be confirmed or denied. But i believe that even if he does help some faceless person with the jet, he wouldn't announce it so we may never know. He makes a lot of moves secretly. Some are known only to his close circuits, some to us staff, some to the church and some to the general public. However, I am aware that Bishop Abioye (his deputy) has unlimited access to the jets too.

Like you said no one knows if he flies members of the congregation abroad or not on the private jet. If we assume that he does, then with a congregation of over 100,000 the private jet will be flying people in/out of the country every week. This is clearly not the case. $25 million was spent on just one private jet - that money could have built and equipped an hospital. With the income levels of Winners Chapel they should be running several hospitals.

Again I stress this is not restricted to Winners Chapel. I listened to Adeboye at the 30th birthday church service of Winners Chapel and he referred to how both he and Oyedepo struggled at the beginning. He then said things are so good now, that Oyedepo and himself were thinking of buying helicopters to avoid the traffic jams ?? Incredibly the congregation clapped at that point - these are poeple who would struggle to pay hospital charges at LUTH. If Adeboye had said look at RCCG today we have x hospitals, x free schools, etc it would have made sense - but to boast about being able to afford an helicopter is just NOT christianlike.

Regarding the universities - this surely has to be one of the most ridiculous things Winners Chapel, RCCG and others do. How can you use your members' tithes and offerings to establish a university which they cannot afford to attend ?

While there may be some human errors on his part, i daresay no one will throw away his infant together with the bath water just because the baby pooed. You take what is useful and discard the rest. That is what i do with his teachings.

Funny enough someone very dear to me told me the same about prosperity pastors in general. I however disagree : The prosperity gospel is essentially that God will bless those he loves and those who love him with wealth, health and supernatural blessings. Now we have both agreed wealth is not down to holiness, I am sure you would also agree that health is not down to holiness either. The prosperity guys also seem to be after money in ways you have to admit cause a few raised eyebrows. If you remove the promised wealth, health from the prosperity gospel and add the perceived greed, selfishness and wickedness there is nothing left in the prosperity gospel.

@daretothink
Thanks for explaining to him that God is not concerned with earthly riches - if only many christians could get this.

@playboy19
you said

Do you expect him to be broke because he is a pastor or what? God is not a broke God.

I thought as much - logical thinking is beyond you. God is not a broke God ?? utter nonsense!

@nuclearboy

Well said!

@playboy19

Obviously logical thinking is above you - if you like you can empty the contents of your bank account into Oyedepo's pocket or any of the numerous charlatans out there.

Your brain is not just something you put your hat on - it is for thinking. Use it!

@Papido

The fundamental mistake made today by many christians (and promoted actively by the prosperity gospel preachers) is that material wealth is as a result of holiness - IT IS NOT. There are millions of non christians  that are extremely wealthy, at the same time there are millions of good christians who are poor. This is not restricted to wealth - good people die young, good people live long, bad people die young, bad people live long. The ways of the Lord are a mystery. We should not assume Oyedepo's or other preachers' wealth is down to their holiness - in fact I believe the reverse is the case. I have watched a sermon of his where he prayed for the destruction of enemies - we all know this cannot be correct. Jesus said clearly ' pray and love your enemies'. I have seen him preach that 'borrowing is wrong' yet his churches accept donations via credit card. These sermons and others I have seen lead me to conclude that he has a very poor understanding of christianity or has deliberately chosen to mislead people.

I will assume from your silence about what happens to a member of the congregation who falls ill - that Winners chapel will not fly that person abroad for treatment on a private - but the church supposedly spends money on relief in the North and elsewhere in Africa. So effectively the members of the congregation are suffering so that the non members of the church can get relief. This is commendable, it is the very basis of christianity - however Oyedepo personally has the use of 2 private jets (if 1 is used for cargoing relief materials), several luxury vehicles and of course the best healthcare money can buy. The same applies to education, Covenant university is too expensive for most members of the congregation but the church is supposedly spending money to build free schools in Sudan - Oyedepos children I will bet went to the best schools money can buy.

I will concede one thing to you - it seems you are prepared to have a reasoned argument which I commend. I am glad  you said you have some personal reservations - this is a good sign. I have not arrived at my views overnight - I struggled to comprehend that 'Men of God' would set out to con and deceive people but unfortunately this is the case. Supposed men of god will lie, cheat, commit adultery in church just to achieve their aims - which is primarily wealth accumulation. Nonsense such as '24 hour miracle seed', '100 fold return' , 'blessings 10 times that of your father' etc are bandied about in church - the prosperity gospel has been around for almost a century - why are christians still poor ? The desperation of Africa and poor people everywhere has unfortunately made them susceptible to these charlatans - this is why these charlatans deserve our contempt,

@musKeeto

Picture this scenario - a driver/messenger earns N30,000 a month - out of this he diligently gives his N3,000 to the church. He has 3 children, his wife does not have a job.  Now one of his children falls ill with cancer - treatable if detected early (with an MRI scanner). This of course is not available - so he goes to church to pray for a miracle for his child to survive (the chances are that there will no miracle) so he has to watch his child die. People who have lost children will tell you that the pain and anguish involved is undescribable. An MRI scanner which will diagnose cancer costs anything up to $2 million - all this while the pastor of the church is jetting in and out of the country on planes worth a total of $50 million.

The scenario above is NOT a story - it happens all the time in Nigeria.

I repeat Oyedepo and the rest of his 419 charlatans should be treated EVEN worse than common criminals. They deserve nothing but our contempt.

@Papido

You say he does not draw any salary from the church but the church provides him a fleet of 3 planes. These planes at a minimum will cost $50 million dollars (N7.5 billion at an exchange rate of 150). The income from his books it is claimed is N300 million a year - it will thus take him 25 years of his own income to buy those planes. So there is nothing commendable about him not drawing a salary from the church.

It is wicked and reckless for the church to spend so much on private planes on the back of tithes and offerings donated by people some of who are on less than N40,000 a year. These people cannot afford to send their kids to decent schools or afford the most basic of healthcare. If a less well off member of the congregation develops kidney failure - will he flown abroad on the private jet for treatment ? If Oyedepo's income is as large as you say it is, coupled with the huge income from tithes and offerings why does the church universities charge fees that most members of the congregation cannot afford ? What is happening to the large amounts of money raised ?

You also say that he does not solicit money - I beg to differ. I have heard his sermons where he tells people that they cannot prosper unless they give to the church. Now clearly that is him pressuring them into giving - he must know that his statement is wrong because there are literarily hundreds of millions of wealthy successful christians that dont tithe.

Oyedepo is doing what the rest of the prosperity charlatans are doing - getting wealthy on the back of people's desperation - he should be treated no better than a common criminal.

@Papido

Thanks for the response. Do you know how much the planes cost ?