₦airaland Forum

Izonpikin:
so you shifted them to another mother but abandoned Joseph who was mentioned there as the carpenter who was a step father to Jesus. matthew explicitly showed the indigenes identified Jesus siblings and mentioned joseph the carpenter and mary.. here you are denying mary..

please show me the other mary who gave birth to simon, Joseph and james??please show me??...

james and jude and joseph were all sons of mary mother of Jesus and siblings of Jesus.

observers knew who jesus siblings are and here you are in the 21st century running away from the truth because you want to worship mary..


show me the other mary that married joseph to give birth to Jesus half brothers..

mary had sisters who also answered the same name. but as matthew specified mary the mother of Jesus gave birth to other sons and their names were mentioned. Joses wasn't one of them..

the matthew 27:56 rightly spells out the fact that the sons of zebedee werent Jesus' siblings...The observers rightly mentioned the names of Jesus brothers and also identified his sisters...ok who gave birth to Jesus's sisters..mary magdalene

You're not making any sense..
Yes the people recognized them as adelphoi.. which could mean brothers, half brothers, cousins or even nephew and uncle
if I grew up in a place the people around would know my family.. whether they are cousins or nephews or uncles.. point is.. adelphoi was used for all..


How could Mary have sisters of the same name? how can parents give the same name to different children..

It nowhere states that Mary the Mother of Jesus had any other Children.. James and Jose's had the same mother.. Incase Joses and Joseph are the same name

Mat 27: 56 is clear 56 among whom were Mary Mag′dalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zeb′edee.

Mary the Mother of James and Joseph or Joses

Scripture refers to the His Mother either as the Mother of Jesus or Mother of the Lord not Mother of any other person..

You are just going round in circles

Izonpikin:
i am connecting the dots for you since youve been blinded by idolatry.

it all starts with the fact that Jesus' brothers were all mentioned in mark but youve avoided all of them, reason why i connected jude(judas) and james to remove the veil from your eyes..

joseph and mary were married and you expect them not to have sex?? are you insane??

how can a marriage be chaste again??..is this boy well at all??...you think joseph was a catholic pope and mary a nun??..are you well

Is it that you ignored my earlier response or that you're just dull...

I showed you that all those brothers had another mother... which Mathew calls the other Mary

Here's the post again incase you didn't see it

mark 15:47 Mary Mag′dalene and MARY the MOTHER OF JOSES saw where he was laid.
NOT MARY THE MOTHER OF JESUS

Matthew 27:56 among whom were Mary Mag′dalene, and MARY the MOTHER of JAMES and JOSEPH, and the mother of the sons of Zeb′edee.
NOT MARY THE MOTHER OF JESUS...

Luke 24: 10 Now it was Mary Mag′dalene and Jo-an′na and MARY THE MOTHER of JAMES and the other women with them who told this to the apostles
NOT MARY THE MOTHER OF JESUS...

James and Joses/Joseph's Mother is another Mary...

What about Jude

Jude 1:1 Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James,Not JUDE BROTHER AND SERVANT OF JESUS CHRIST

Izonpikin:
oh..so you mean to tell me you dont know your history??.how the roman catholic church impeded the transliteration of the scriptures for the common man to read??..you want me to spoon feed you

I don't.. yes please spoonfeed me.. Show Me the truth with accurate historical documents.. not anti Catholic biased history.

Am waiting please

Encyclopedia Britannica or Wikipedia as your sources please

Izonpikin:
this is always the get out of jail cards for idolaters like you. was it not the same catholic priests of old who burnt and killed many persons who translated the bible into the common language of persons to learn the truth

which because of catholics people wont have the bible. i guess the Catholics were existing in the time of moses to preserve the scriptures..

Can you prove this with accurate historical sources... I don't want your anti Catholic websites... give good unbiased websites..

encyclopedia Britannica. or Wikipedia??

Izonpikin:
why are you stuck up with james??...arent you seeing the other siblings mentioned there by their names and including Jesus' sisters?? joseph ,judas and simon were mentioned as his siblings(all joseph and marys kids). clear cut scriptures and you avoid them like plague..the james which was jesus' brother was neither the son of zebedee or alpheus. the james which was Jesus' brother is still the same brother to judas which was still a sibling to Jesus.

jude 1:1

New International Version
Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ:

this james who Jesus appeared to when he was resurrected was both Jesus' brother and the writer of the book of james and judas sibling.

Jesus had half siblings which mary gave birth to with Joseph.

denying wont help your course. mary never died a virgin. she was happily married to joseph who had sex with her numerous times to give birth to other kids.

Jude 1:1 calls Jude the brother of James not Jesus, that much is clear.. Joses and James mother I have already shown you to be a different Mary... Sex is your problem... Like I have said... sex is not the be all and end all of marriage... besides the Bible never tells you anywhere explicitly that Mary and Joseph had sex numerous times...

I assume you have never heard of chaste marriage.. Since sex is all you emphasize


I don't know what you're arguing

Izonpikin:
more scriptures for you

Matthew 12:46
New International Version
While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside[/b], wanting to speak to him.

New Living Translation
As Jesus was speaking to the crowd, [b]his mother and brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him.


John 2:12New International Version (NIV)

12 After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples. There they stayed for a few days.


i cant believe that one can deny mary of her giving birth to other kids so that she can be worshiped by lovers of idolatry in our present time. its baffling.

What we believe about Mary shows Christ's Power, if you want to know why that teaching exists ask... don't jump to wrong conclusions

Immortal1:
So, you are ready to assert to any other possibility, even the possibility of Joseph marrying another woman in order to justify that Mary never had sex with Joseph. Wow! I guess in your argument, you believe there's zero probability of Joseph having sex with Mary, even though you don't have a proof that erodes all doubt! Hmmm. It is well.

I have the testimony of the early Christians...

you seem to assume that if Mary and Joseph did not have sex then something must be wrong.. which is not right.. sex is not the be all and end all of marriage..

Scripture never anywhere says Mary had sex with Joseph explicitly.. Mathew 1:25 doesn't say that explicitly...

Immortal1:
So, you are ready to assert to any other possibility, even the possibility of Joseph marrying another woman in order to justify that Mary never had sex with Joseph. Wow! I guess in your argument, you believe there's zero probability of Joseph having sex with Mary, even though you don't have a proof that erodes all doubt! Hmmm. It is well.

I have the testimony of the early Christians...

you seem to assume that if Mary and Joseph did not have sex then something must be wrong.. which is not right.. sex is not the be all and end all of marriage..

Scripture never anywhere says Mary had sex with Joseph explicitly.. Mathew 1:25 doesn't say that explicitly

Izonpikin:
more scriptures for you

Matthew 12:46
New International Version
While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside[/b], wanting to speak to him.

New Living Translation
As Jesus was speaking to the crowd, [b]his mother and brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him.


John 2:12New International Version (NIV)

12 After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples. There they stayed for a few days.


i cant believe that one can deny mary of her giving birth to other kids so that she can be worshiped by lovers of idolatry in our present time. its baffling.

those scriptures say the same thing as Mathew 13 and Mark 6..

this is the question how could the apostle James be the son of alphaeus and Mary at the same time

Immortal1:
It's okay to interprete scriptures differently in order to support your view, but I believe it's best to read scriptures with an open heart for the Holy Spirit to help bring illumination to what you read in scriptures.

Now my question to Catholics: Do you believe with the whole of your heart that Joseph was married to Mary all his life and never had sex with her? The Bible recorded in Matthew 1:25 that Joseph did not know her (Mary) "till" she had brought forth her firstborn Son. Going by your assertions, what do you think the word 'till' meant in the verse cited? Also, why stress 'firstborn Son', if Jesus Christ remained her only child?? In all sincerity, you think Joseph never knew (had sex with) Mary & it would not be glaringly stated in the Bible??

It shouldn't be about defending your assertions but your desire to know the truth.

Regards.

So what about Matthew 1:24-25 and the claim Jesus was Mary’s “firstborn son” and that Joseph “knew her not until” Christ was born? Does St. Matthew here teach Mary to have had other children?

Exodus 13:1-2 reveals something important about the firstborn in Israel:

The Lord said to Moses, “Consecrate to me all the firstborn; whatever is the first to open the womb among the people of Israel, both of man and beast, is mine.”

The firstborn were not given the title because there was a second-born. They were called firstborn at birth. Hence, Jesus being referred to as firstborn in Matthew 1 does not require there to be more siblings after him.

Propositions about a preposition

Scripture stating Joseph “knew [Mary] not until she brought forth her firstborn” would not necessarily mean they “knew” each other after she brought forth Jesus. Until is often used in Scripture as part of an idiomatic expression similar to our own usage in English. I may say to you, “Until we meet again, God bless you.” Does that mean after we meet again, God curse you? By no means! A phrase like this is used to emphasize what is being described before the “until” is fulfilled. It is not intended to say anything about the future beyond that point. Here are some biblical examples that may help clarify things:

II Samuel 6:23: “And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to [unti] the day of her death.” Does this mean she had children after she died?
I Timothy 4:13: “Until I come, attend to the public reading of scripture, to preaching, to teaching.” Does this mean Timothy should stop teaching after St. Paul comes?
I Corinthians 15:25: “For he [Christ] must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.” Does this mean Christ’s reign will end? By no means! Luke 1:33 says, “[H]e will reign over the house of Jacob forever and of his kingdom there shall be no end.”

Izonpikin:
but that scripture explicitly shows the indigenes knew of the siblings of Jesus Christ.

ok here is a reference to the scriptures i quoted

galatians 1: 14-19

Galatians 1:14-19New International Version (NIV)

14 I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. 17 I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus.

18 Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas[a] and stayed with him fifteen days. 19 I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord’s brother.



verse 19 once again specifically singles out james as Jesus' brother(sibling).

evidences everywhere mary slept with her God ordained husband and gave birth to other children.


even paul knew Jesus had half siblings...

From Galatians.. Paul says James the Lords brother is an apostle, there are only two James in the list of the apostles...
James the son of Zebedee and James the Son of alphaeus or James the lesser, He is the Son of alphaeus not Joseph.. unless you think Mary committed adultery or had another husband

Luke 6: 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and JAMES THE SON of ALPHAEUS , and Simon who was called the Zealot,

Izonpikin:
so you are insinuating Joseph married another wife and never slept with mary

did God command Joseph not to sleep with his wife after gave birth to Jesus..are you serious my friend or youve been smoking something strong??

are you joking

abeg @splinz come help this guy. him matter don pass be careful..

My friend with all due respect to you.. I'm not as ignorant as you.. there are early Christian writings which did not make it into the Bible, one of them is the protoevangelium of James.. which am sure you've never heard of.. It postulated that theory which I don't necessarily agree with... like I said.. They could be his cousins also and in Hebrew there's no word for cousins so they use brother for any relationship other than father and son in an extended family...

the points still remains.. They are "brothers" of Jesus.
but the Bible no were associates them as Children of Jesus's mother..

Izonpikin:
pictures??..let me think...i have none.

so just any picture one has ends up as an idol??..so if i have a beautiful picture of a paradisaic environment it automatically becomes an idol even when i dont recite mantras to it or ask for it to intercede for me in prayers


oboy i tire for you ooo..all these ones na just to bow before mary image you dey so...

If you have images of anything on earth or in heaven and show affection or respect for it.. then the qualification you gave to us applies to you...

FYI IT IS NOT THE IMAGE THAT INTERCEDES, JUST LIKE SHOWING AFFECTION FOR YOUR MOM OR WIFE OR SIBLINGS THROUGH A PHOTOGRAPH DOESN'T MEAN YOU LOVE THE PHOTOGRAPH. IT IS NOT INK AND PAPER YOU LOVE BUT YOU LOVE THE PERSON IT REPRESENTS..

Izonpikin:
choiiii...how else are they step brothers to Jesus if not through mary??...are you insinuating it was joseph who impregnated mary to born Jesus??

so now they could be cousins?? ...

they could be step brothers by being Josephs children from another marriage.. they could be cousins by being Mary's relative 's children or Joseph's relative's children

Izonpikin:
i dont wear nobodys image. those who wear the pictures of oyedepo are also human worshipers. so you all fall under the same umbrella. Are you happy now

but you have pictures in your house... hope you know those are images too..

Izonpikin:
please read that mark and tell me if the observers who lived close to Jesus and watched him grow in nazarene couldnt differentiate between the two marys...how can you wake up and deny such a clear picture??...ok so i quote another reference on the mark 6 i quoted so that you can run along with your heresy.

Matthew 13:54-56New International Version (NIV)

54 Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked. 55 “[b]Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? 56 Aren’t all his sisters with us?[/b]Where then did this man get all these things?

easymancfc is telling the whole nairaland otherwise that these indigenes mistook mary magdalene for mary the mother of Jesus. i give up on you my brother.

these people knew Jesus and his half siblings.i guess the carpenter too was another carpenter and not joseph you see ehn i tire for ona.

I'm sorry if you don't know how punctuation marks is used...
Jesus is called "THE SON OF MARY" NOT A SON OF MARY FOR A REASON...

LIKE I SAID THEY ARE CALLED JESUS'S BROTHERS BUT NOT MARY'S CHILDREN... MY STEP BROTHER IS MY BROTHER BUT NOT MY MOTHER'S SON...
besides the Greek word adelphoi can be used for cousins, or uncle-nephew relationship not just blood brothers from the same mother...

IN THE BIBLE MARY IS EITHER REFERED TO AS THE LORD'S MOTHER OR THE MOTHER OF JESUS.. NOT MOTHER OF JAMES OR JOSES OR SIMON

Izonpikin:
this guy is just acting like he doesnt know what the catholics are really doing. so you think by making numerous images of mary you are honoring her?? stop trivializing the acts of worship you guys give to mary. i honor my parents but i dont go about hanging their images or making molten images of them and hanging them on my neck or in my house or car. That is tantamount to idol worship.

marys intercession is of no value to any christians. Jesus is there to do the job..

We have images for remembrance and veneration.. not worship..

People wear oyedepo and Suleiman on their necks nowadays and in their cars.. so you could accuse them of idolatry too

LaClicKLaBenDin:
You have said nothing!

Address the points I raised.

What points, you called us a cult, idol worshipers and talk knighting initiation and condemn us saying we don't know our own beliefs..

There's nothing to address.. bring valid points... and then they will be addressed..

LaClicKLaBenDin:
You dey mind them? Idolaters!

The problem is that they do not even know what Catholicism is about, and I don't even want to go into that, given the kind of shallowness they have displayed already.

Roman Catholic isn't a church, but a cult! Before quotes me, please show us a copy of the detailed events, proclamation and whatnots, during knighthood imitation.

If you are looking for the seat of Antichrist, look no further, it is staring you in the face in the form of a church! And please before anyone quotes me, tell me what you know about the black Pope, tell me what you know about the Jesuits, their vows and covenants, tell me what you know about the connection between Catholicism and islam, but if you can't tell me all these, then hold your peace.

Funny you.. I guess it's you who really knows what Catholicism is about..

Izonpikin:
she would have been involved in general prayers just like every other christian...but I can bet my life no disciple met Mary in particular to intercede for them... and no apostle extolled Mary to a lofty position of veneration like the catholics are doing today..

If Paul could ask for prayers from Christians then the apostles could ask for prayers from Mary who is a Christian too...

We take Mary as our Mother... Just as John and any other disciples who loved Christ would have because Jesus told John to take Mary as his Mother and for Mary to take John as her Son.. (John 19:27) and the commandment says Exodus 20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the Lord your God gives you.

So by Jesus making Mary John's Mother He and the disciples would have honored her...

AND FINALLY EVERY REASONABLE CHILD COUNTS ON HIS MOTHER'S PRAYERS.. EVEN IF WE DON'T ASK FOR IT DIRECTLY, THEY DON'T HESITATE TO DO IT..

A MOTHER ALWAYS PRAYS FOR HER CHILDREN AND WISE CHILDREN ASK FOR THEIR MOTHER'S INTERCESSION

Izonpikin:
I leave the idol worshippers with Mark 6::3

New Living Translation
Then they scoffed, "He's just a carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon. And his sisters live right here among us." They were deeply offended and refused to believe in him.

English Standard Version
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.


Catholics have done everything possible just to worship Mary even against her own will...claiming Mary never gave birth to other children is not only false but outstandingly heretic. ...

It's really crazy...

mark 15:47 Mary Mag′dalene and MARY the MOTHER OF JOSES saw where he was laid.
NOT MARY THE MOTHER OF JESUS
Matthew 27:56 among whom were Mary Mag′dalene, and MARY the MOTHER of JAMES and JOSEPH, and the mother of the sons of Zeb′edee.
NOT MARY THE MOTHER OF JESUS...

Luke 24: 10 Now it was Mary Mag′dalene and Jo-an′na and MARY THE MOTHER of JAMES and the other women with them who told this to the apostles

NOT MARY THE MOTHER OF JESUS...

James and Joses/Joseph's Mother is another Mary...

What about Jude

Jude 1:1 Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James,

Not JUDE BROTHER AND SERVANT OF JESUS CHRIST

Splinz:
No, I know I'm fixing you were you rightly belonged.

Funny you..

Izonpikin:
oh you're sure with no scriptural proof...shey you see yourself...so you assume Mary prayed for the apostles after Jesus's ascension to the heavens...my brother there was never a verse that testifies to that...Mary was barely even mentioned as regards activities of the first century Christians let alone the apostles who served as a governing body praying to her or taking her highly important like you idol worshippers are doing today...


And who the hell says Mary never gave birth to other kids or rather had sex with her husband after Jesus's birth. Who is spreading that false teaching

Acts 1:14 All these with one accord devoted THEMSELVES to PRAYER, together with the WOMEN and MARY the MOTHER of JESUS, and with his brethren.

It is common practice in the early Church for Christians to pray for each other... (1 Tim 2:1-4) ..

Paul usually asked Christians to pray for him (col 4:3, 1 thess 5:25, 2 thess 3:1)

Mary would have prayed for the apostles too.. If Paul could ask for prayers from The Thessalonians, then other apostles would have asked for prayers from their brethren including MARY, who was with them...

IT MIGHT INTEREST YOU TO KNOW THAT THE FOUNDERS OF PROTESTANISM BELIEVED IN MARY'S PERPETUAL VIRGINITY...

Splinz:
Okay. Enjoy your spree of idolatry.

You think you have successfully avoided the question abi.. all those your ignorance and spree of idolatry insults don't move me...

you either answer the question I asked or you shut up...

Splinz:
As one who first asked the question, answer mine first. All these tactics of yours wouldn't work. I've dealt with those more advance than you and still knocked them out.

for your mind.. be deceiving yourself.. besides how do you claim to know my level of knowledge and those who are wiser than me. ..

Answer the question and stop blabbing rubbish

bayelsaowei:
I just told you a straight fact..

Put your images round the church and bow down to yourselves. ..it shouldn't be Mary alone...since you guys can't do a thing without the use of images , rosaries and other amulets...


If I ask you now to show me where the apostles asked Mary to intercede the heavens for them you would dance agaba all around this forum...or at most you quote joshua...

I am getting all warmed up for you and your ilks on this idolatry thing...

Maybe you don't know.. but Mary was alive while most of the Bible was being written... She and the apostles were together.. and am sure they treated her with respect and honor... They could not have asked for her intercession while she had died because she was alive and with them atleast until the close of acts in acts 28

but am sure she prayed for them because she was with them for a while..

Splinz:
Playing dumb has never worked with me. You don't know who commands you to bow down and worshiped those idols of yours?

You are just avoiding the question I asked.. answer or Shut up... you who is wise...

If making Images is an objective sin.. then why did God command images to be made... don't circle round it, if you don't want to answer.. shut up.. and stop claiming wisdom...

durasome:
so this is what Catholics believes?? especially that Jesus had no other siblings, thanks for spelling the dooms to me i was considering joining Catholic but now I know their doctrines are terrible.

The Bible calls them brothers of Jesus directly,(brother can mean any familial relationship from step brothers to cousins and even uncle-nephew as seen in Abraham and lot) but never calls them Children of Mary..

and the thing is, we see in the Bible also who James and Joses Mom is, and it's not the mother of Jesus..

Splinz:
Go and play with your ilks. Obviously, you can't tell who instructed the making of your giant idols and worships.

I will go after you answer the question I asked..

Splinz:
Who decreed that the idols of 'a' Mary or Jesus be made and worship? You can as well come out plain and challenge God in Exodus 20:4.

Answer my question first, then I will answer yours,

Am not challenging God, it is you am challenging, God commanded images to be made (exo 25:18, numbers 21:.. If exodus 20:4 meant that making images by itself is sinful and idolatrous, then why did he command them to be made

Splinz:
Here he goes again on a spree of irrelevancies. Enjoy your delusions.

Avoiding the question abi.. Atleast you didn't blame it on comprehension this time ....

I ask the question again ... if making images was objectively idolatry or sinful.. why then would God command images to be made

Splinz:
Smart, but not impressive. Point of correction: God said, not I. “Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?” (Lamentations 3:37).

Who is he that decreed the bowing down and worship of an idol of 'a' Mary or Jesus?

If making of Images is objectively Sinful then God would not have commanded them to be made..

AND GOD CANNOT COMMAND US TO DO SOMETHING SINFUL BECAUSE HE HATES SIN