₦airaland Forum

EzeUche:
For erosion which occurs throughout Igboland? A process that started doing the Palm oil trade?

So?

Using the same argument you used earlier for Fashola, then Peter Obi is equally guilty. Yet you've not seen the need to make a thread on it, have you?

You are a hypocrite.

Lmao @ Ileke-Idi flirting hard

Anyway, this was a nice interview. I'm very much pro SW rail . . . as he points out, converting Ado-Ekiti and other towns to suburbs of Lagos would lead to massive development of the entire region.

naijaking1:
When Sanusi said the CEO were corrupt and desreved to be shoot, the choir cheered. When he said it was the shareholders fault for investing in such companies(in their mother land) many hailed him on this forum.

Wait a second. He blamed the shareholders? Lmao, can you provide a reference for this? I want to see what exactly he said, maybe it was a quote taken out of context or something.

[quote author=edo.girl link=topic=488326.msg8738353#msg8738353 date=1310982980]surely d local cooperative, women groups etc can pop there with brooms & all to sweep & keep d place clean. cant wait for the fed in this situation. not sure about monuments but the minimum respect for all dead, including mr zik, is to keep their resting place clean, if possible.[/quote]Hrm, the return of the intriguing and mysterious edo.girl

kalokalo:
China's rise has nothing to do with it's own innovation and enterprise. China rose because global Capital decided [/b]to go to china to exploit cheap labor. Global Capital can and will go anywhere that will allow it to maximize its profits by minimizing its costs. If China had not opened its borders to foreign capital in 1979 (due to Deng Xiaoping), they would have remained poor.

The success of countries like Singapore, Brazil, South Africa, Malaysia, India, Taiwan, South Korea, Hong Kong closely mirror the success of China. [b]They opened their borders to global Capital otherwise known as globalization. Many of those countries are not known for indigenous technical innovation. South Korea got its technological start by demanding technology transfer from Western firms wanting to do business there. Japan did the same, China is now doing the same.

This. I don't think Nigeria for example really needs to do anything innovative to begin marching forward rapidly.

If there is constant electricity, we can just copy practices from elsewhere in the world. Even if we are slightly less efficient than the Chinas of the world at producing everything which we then manufacture, at least the goods are made locally and don't require the transport costs, import duties, etc of Chinese goods.

And I strongly believe that there are least a few things we'll be able to produce more cheaply than China (processed cassava products for one. I could probably find other examples.)

Great thread.

This Awolowo/Akintola beef imo was one of the biggest disasters Yorubaland has faced in history. We lost a lot from it. Could have lost everything.

Akintola as Afonja is not a bad analogy (no offense intended Dayo_Kanu).

We need to understand that outsiders who want to empower one faction over another in Yorubaland usually mean us harm.

Katsumoto:
Singapore practices State Capitalism as well. It provides a business environment that is interference-free and subsequently encourages many corporations to site operations there. It is dependent on a mixture of service-oriented and manufacturing (technology) oriented industries. Innovation is not always about tangible products.

So what in your opinion is innovative about Singapore? Just that their business environment is fairly liberal? This is not unique to Singapore though. In a nutshell, I don't think you need to "innovate" (by this I guess you mean provide something new/novel) to have a pretty good country.

Thats why I said innovate or be dependent on resources. How do you know Nigeria can't produce rice as efficiently as Thailand? Innovation always changes things.

Fine, so I guess for Nigeria, it has sufficient amounts of natural resources to not fall under the "innovate" case you believe is necessary to escape poverty. Regarding Nigeria producing rice as efficiently as Thailand? Because we are so far behind, and too dependent on primitive farming techniques. I dunno, let me not say never, but I remain skeptical we'll ever hit the massive rice yields they have in Thailand (like 3-4 tons per hectare or something, I can't remember off the top of my head).

Yet Nigeria still can be a major rice producer and exporter w/o being one of the best in the world, imo.

Pifa:
There is a great deal of truth (both academic and practical) in what Katsumoto is saying. A good case study is Nigeria’s inability to innovate an automobile that is suitably adapted to the African climate and affordable to the African economic profile. So, India’s Tata Industries has seized the opportunity and will soon start to export its $3000-$5000 Nano automobiles to Africa. This area of adapting technology to suit the landscape is what Nigeria could have pursued and dominated within the African continent, if the whole country had not been drunk on sweet crude.

This is true, but India has a functional indigenous steel sector and better power supply than Nigeria does. So there is no real reason to expect Nigeria to be able to produce cars at competitive prices w/o these two ingredients.

@ ekt_bear

I don’t think Katsumoto is referring to technological innovation only when he said “innovation”. By thinking innovatively for example, China has effectively changed its course in history and now on the cusp of world “powerdon”. And they’ve been able to achieve this with a unifying and innovative socio-political thinking. Their socio-political thinking itself is an innovation that allows capitalism to thrive within a communist society.

BTW, are you eku_bear, the poster who lives in California?

I see. You guys have a bit broader definition of innovation than I. But I still don't think innovation of this sort is necessary. I don't need to manufacture t-shirts as cheaply as China does to still make a healthy profit doing so. I don't need to be Coca-Cola (the giant and leader in the field) to turn a profit canning soda. . . I can be the guy who produces the cheap generic brand. Etc, etc.

Yep, I'm eku_bear. Nice to see you again.

No, we are too far behind the US, imo. But I think with electricity, in 100-200 years or so we could have a standard of living comparable to that of the US.

Katsumoto:
But Capitalism is based on the concept of perfect competition and efficient allocation of resources. For instance, China was dependent on the need for cheaper land and labour by Western corporations to grow. It could grow on its own; all it could do was to provide the conditions necessary for cheap production.

The only way, a poor country that grow out of poverty is to innovate. If you don't supply something that the richer nations dont already produce, then you will remain poor.

What do you mean by "innovate"? What does Singapore produce that other rich countries already don't make? There is very little original or innovative coming from Singapore, yet that country is pretty well off (actually, Singapore may not be a perfect example, but I'm sure a suitable one can be found.)

I don't really think innovation per se is really necessary to build a pretty good country. I doubt Nigeria will ever produce rice as efficiently as Thailand does, yet it is something we can still produce for export. Slimmer profit margins than the Thai, but still positive profit.

Also, the principle of comparative advantage seems relevant here, does it not? That Country X produces nothing innovative and that what it produces it produces less efficiently than Country Y doesn't mean that Country X is useless or destined to be poor.

Katsumoto:
Philosophy and political ideology must not be fixed and rigid. Each country must find the model that suits it best based on resources, rich poor imbalance, and socio-economic factors. Thats why I said I like State Capitalism in Brazil and China, the scandinavian model in self sufficient economies. Poor countries without resources and innovation will remain poor regardless of political ideology.

Bolded is true, but I think misses the point a bit. Poor countries should strive to grow their economies as quickly as possible so that they'll be less poor. My belief is that capitalism leads to the most economic growth.

Ibime:
@ Ekt bear,

Germany are not laissez faire capitalists due to the need to integrate East Germany into the country. Whilst Britain was downgrading its manufacturing sector and focusing on "service economy", Germany was upgrading their manufacturing sector in order to provide enough employment to account for the East Germans. Germany is no longer price-competitive with regard to Labour so they focus on high-end manufacturing which needs an advanced skill base, similar to the way Taiwan re-engineered their economy to highly advanced manufacturing.

I have never really understood this service economy stuff. Buying and selling within your own country is fine, but it seems to me that you need to export stuff and ideally manufacture goods in order to really grow. I'm actually slightly concerned about the long-term prospects of the US for this reason.

Regarding your first comment, in what way? Welfare and such for East Germans? Just trying to get an idea of what it looks like.

@wesley80: 100s of millions raised out of poverty in China. Shouldn't that be enough for us to conclude that capitalism is good?

India and China were in similar situations in 1980, yet now China has zoomed past them. . . India is about as wealthy per capita as Nigeria. Don't you think their history would have turned out a lot better if they'd reformed earlier?

Let us cherish him for the things he accomplishing in his literary career.

But certain other aspects of his life? I don't think he should be a role model in those.

Katsumoto:
I believe that Scandinavians have the best political model as it enforces family and leisure priorities.

I don't think this type of stuff can work for poor countries though. Once you are rich, you can afford to provide lots of social services and luxuries like that. But for poor countries trying to come up in the world, I think they limit productivity and economic growth.

Katsumoto:
In a nutshell, that is what is referred to as State Capitalism; also practiced in Brazil and the middle east. The right model for resource rich countries because it doesn't promote innovation. It encourages firms to copy practices that are working elsewhere.

Personally, I believe in the Capitalist model practiced in Germany and Austria which encourages the Mittlestand i.e lots of small and medium sized business. France and Britain have more fortune 500 firms than Germany but the Germany economy has been stronger than the other two economies for decades.

I don't know much about Europe. But Italy is also centered around small businesses (at least this is what I gather from my readings online). Textiles especially. Yet their own economy has been pretty crappy for like 20 years now. And competition from China probably has not helped matters.

So can you elaborate a bit more on why you think Germany's small and medium businesses have been successful yet Italy's are failing?

But yeah, I wish I understood why Germany has been so strong, especially relative to the other European countries. Do they have some intrinsic advantage that I'm not aware of. . . ?

wesley80:
Do u know u could get shot for making such an utterance in China? May Chairman Mao 4give u.

My own understanding of the China situation is that the economy is mostly capitalistic. However, the government is entirely controlled by one party.

So you have pure capitalism + one-party state w/o a Western-style democracy.

To be quite honest, while I think that democracy is the best form of government, I don't think it is essential. Key things seem to be to:
A) have capitalism
B) Whatever form of government you chose, have wise leaders who aren't too corrupt and work for the interest of the nation.

In practice though, getting good leaders who are relatively selfless and upright seems to be much harder w/o having a democracy. I should probably say "much much much harder", to emphasize how hard it is to get good leadership with those others systems.

ThiefOfHearts:
forum filled with illiterates

so because Soyinka wanted to bring in frats/sororities to you baboons in Nigeria, it's now his fault that you animals turned it into something completely different from what he was hoping for?

awon ode

The way my pops tells it to me, it was way worse than that. Sounded more like some sort of secret society/masonic order than a simple innocuous frat.

oyb:
why is ezeuche our resident flip flopper extraordinaire ( - no more tribalism -> iboist etal ) and all around comedian not calling for obi's resigntion? over this avoidable natural disaster?

An excellent question. How are you not a hypocrite, Uche?

China has been moving towards capitalism since 1979 or so? Deng Xiaoping was the man who initiated this move. And they've been one of the fastest growing economy in the world over that time period.

Lifting literally 100s of millions of people out of poverty.

To me, capitalism is one of the greatest forces for good on earth. Can you imagine making 100s of millions of people not poor again?

I'm not going to claim that I don't believe in any sort of supernatural or "magical" forces. But 99.9% of the time, there is a logical explanation for why whatever you are seeing doesn't violate the laws (of physics) that govern the universe.

Rather than believing that this event lands in the 0.1% of events that are actually unexplainable, imo better to figure out what is actually going on.

You are too gullible, man

[quote author=Rhino.5dm link=topic=715299.msg8736157#msg8736157 date=1310939157]Is like Oduduwa has replied those jubilating over Lagos flood. One good turn deserve another. . .Karma is a byytch![/quote]Maybe so. But I think in situations like this, it behooves us to take the high road. NL sh1ttalking is one thing, actual loss of life/homes/etc is another.

jmaine:
^ If your babe ditches you  . .Please blame it on Jonathan   . .  So preventing and mitigating disasters like this is not part of welfare if we are to tow your  reason  

His point is that for disasters of this sort, the FG should step in and help.

I don't necessarily agree, but it really isn't about Jonathan specifically.

Amen to that. I certainly don't wish him ill.

hehe

The English is awkward, but I guess is technically correct? I'd have just used "jobs", but "employments" I guess has the same meaning.

Kidnapping a king, on his way to church? 

Very bold criminals.

jason123:
When the information reached the community, the people waited for the abductors to name their ransom, but nothing has been heard till date.

45 days, no ransom notice? I wonder if the man is still even alive. Maybe he made some powerful enemies who wanted to eliminate him.

So few comments on one of the better writeups I've seen recently from the Nigerian media?

Na wa o

More from Aregbesola:

Osun moves to boost food production
on JULY 17, 2011 · in NEWS

OSOGBO – Osun State Governor, Ogbeni Rauf Aregbesola, has secured the commitment of the Chinese Province of Juiangsu, to invest in the State’s agro-allied industries and training of farmers to boost the sector in the state.

A statement by the State’s Director of Communications, Mr. Semiu Okanlawon, said: “the investment plans are also aimed at boosting job creation in the state as part of plans towards revamping the economy of Osun.”

Chairman of the Namjing Federation of Trade Unions who is also the Minister of Publicity in the Province, Dr. Xu Huiling, disclosed the readiness of the Province during a tour by the Governor of the industrial establishment of the Province where Aregbesola saw how the Province had used agriculture to develop its economy.

Juiangsu is a province located along the Eastern Coast of China between East Longitude 116°18’and 121°57′ and it is noted for its massive agro-based industries which provide jobs for millions of the people of the Province.

Under the emerging arrangements, China will be expected to send soil experts to Osun State to test the suitability of the soil for certain hybrid fruits, even as they will be helping to upgrade the cultivation of existing fruits and vegetables in order to increase yield.

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2011/07/osun-moves-to-boost-food-production/

on JULY 17, 2011 · in NEWS

By JOHNBOSCO AGBAKWURU
Calabar—Over 500 people have been displaced in Cross River State as a result of the heavy rainfall which lasted four days, while property worth over N100 million were destroyed.

Director-General of the State Emergency Management Agency, SEMA, Mr. Vincent Aquah, who confirmed this in Calabar, said the persistent rain caused socio-economic damage and destroyed more than 106 hectars of farmland.

Aquah said over 40 houses in Calabar and its environs were flooded, leading to the displacement of about 500 people in various parts of the state.

The SEMA boss said that based on the Nigerian Meteorological Agency, NIMET, predictions for higher rainfall this year, more devastating rainstorms would occur, and may wreck more havoc.

He, however, noted that the state government was doing everything possible to ameliorate the sufferings of those affected by the flood.

Mr. Aquah said despite the challenges facing SEMA, especially in the area of mobility, the staff were determined to carry out rapid assessment and other intervention measures.

He advised the people to urgently contact relevant authorities for rescue whenever there was serious flooding and to vacate such places to avoid loss of lives.

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2011/07/flood-displaces-500-destroys-farmland-in-criver/

Just placed an order on amazon for that book above, as well as Awo's autobiography. I must learn more about this great man, this lion of the mighty Western Region