₦airaland Forum

@fstranger1: Hmm, ok. Will be interesting to what happens.

fstranger1:
Are you serious or just acting as the devil's advocate?

How much can it cost? If you pay some high-up Nigerian policeman $100k/year to let you know what is going on, will he deny you? Or is the US somehow going to pull this off w/o the help of the Nigerian gov't at all? I don't see how the US can send agents after him without the information leaking out somehow.

Makinde probably doesn't have 10 or 20 mil in his account.

That is enough money to:

1) Get plastic surgery
2) Hire guards armed to the teeth
3) Bribe someone in the naija gov't to give you forewarning if the US gov't sends agents after you.
4) Have any strange people who come looking for you in Abia State (or wherever he is hiding) mysteriously captured and killed by kidnappers.

With that said, it was too strong of me to say he will never be caught. Just he chances of him being captured are pretty small, imo. Uncle Sam's arm isn't that long, if you have money and can afford protection.

fstranger1:
He is going to be caught and he is gonna have to spend time in jail for a 100 million dolls crime

if he has managed to escape to Nigeria, he will never be caught. He'll just invent a new identity. Dude is obviously not a mumu.

Kalu Akanu:
That article reminds me of a movie script.

Catch Me If You Can, basically.

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=592779.msg7604435#msg7604435 date=1296013294]Nigerians making wave in American. . . . They need to make another "Coming to America" movie  

Part of this fraudsters are the same ones on their laptop talking about getting rich. "My father has a bigger house than your own", ring a bell?[/quote]Lol, yeah. For all we know, this Tobechi guy is hiding somewhere in Abia from the authorities. Will resurface with a new identity and run for governor  

With that said, I'm impressed. Read through the article. . . some of the things he pulled off are very hard to do. His mastery of different accents, speech patterns, his knowledge of the inner workings of banks, the techniques he used to launder money, how he hid how much business he was doing even from his associates, how he found out the FBI was after him through AT&T!

Dude is extremely talented (though I'm not trying to justify what he did.)

Well worth reading the entire article.

This guy is amazing.

Someone in Nollywood (or Hollywood?) needs to make a movie about him.

tensor777:
Well it is an issue whether you acknowledge it or not. Truth be told these languages are mainly designed as oral as opposed to written languages. Another point is that a society with a poor reading culture cannot begin to understand the beauty the depth and the power of written languages like English and French.
It is simply not feasible to make vernacular a language of instruction beyond the grade school level. Its just like saying pidgin should become the language of instruction as this language itself follows the structure of the indigenous languages.
Anyway you are actually wasting time even debating this matter as IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN as long as English remains the global language.
It is a matter much deeper than mundane issues like costs

Tensor, I think you are very biased in favor of English and French. There is nothing intrinsically better about these languages. It isn't as if in the 1300s, your typical English peasant was expressing himself powerfully through words. The elites at that time were more interested in the "depth and power" of Latin and such, were they not?
Like I said, a lot of this stuff comes down to just economic supremacy. If the Bulgarians had found the new world, gotten the opportunity kick Native American @ss and gobble up enormous amounts of pristine land, then we might be talking about the beauty of Bulgarian  
English is a nice tool, a sharp sword, if you will. That Yoruba is currently a blunt sword doesn't mean that it cannot be sharpened. There is nothing inately superior about English, imo.

There is a long and useful (but repetitive and at times boring) report by the World Bank examining the economic potential of the various regions of Nigeria. Their perspective is mostly from a job growth perspective, but it is pretty useful for evaluating other things, I think.

http://www.accessbankplc.com/Library/Documents/2010%20Bankers%20Committee%20Conference%20Resources/Economic%20Development/Putting%20Nigeria%20to%20Work.pdf

Regarding notation, language to describe stuff . . . you simply invent it, just as they did in English/Spanish/etc. This is how most languages work anyway, you build complicated ideas from simpler ones.

Perceived simplicity of the native languages is a red herring, imo.

My objection is mostly due to opportunity cost, not feasibility.

Regarding my idea of "alignment", the idea is to ensure that not only Loyola students (who appear to be the top 2% of people who pass the entrance exams for that school) get access to these opportunities, but hopefully so that others can too.

Onlytruth:
And how would they enter and leave Anambra state? Let me guess.
They land in Lagos or Abuja and then take a 7 hour drive to Anambra state along the terrible armed robber infested Nigerian roads, right?
Sorry, no deal.

Are there no flights from Abuja to anywhere near Anambra? In 2006 I went to PH for vacation, went from Houston -> Europe -> PH. Or am I imagining things? I'm pretty sure we didn't touch down in Lagos, flew directly from Europe to PH.

Unless the airport in PH is no longer functional, or Anambra is inaccessible from PH, then it shouldn't be as bad as you say. I wouldn't know the situation on the ground there now though.

Onlytruth:
International companies locate in areas closest to international airports. Anambra does not have that.
Let's keep things in proper perspective. Now, when Enugu international airport becomes fully operational, we can come back after some years to re-evaluate.

That is not how things work for McK. They chase money too. If there is money to be made in Anambra, then they'll open an office there, international airport or not.

They have offices in even the Minnesotas of the world (though I do concede that Minny has world-class airports, something Anambra (and Nigeria in general) lacks).

I took the attached screenshot from page 6 of the following report:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbcglobal.org%2FCBCG_Library%2FAYO%2520Gbeleyi%2C%2520Power.ppsx&ei=ahcsTZfOOIT7lwfc8sDWCw&usg=AFQjCNHat4X8FgC4Qpx4oXEsByCstWYT8A

I'm a bit skeptical of the claims that the entire SE does more manufacturing than Lagos (I mean dollar value of business, not just # of factories.) If that economic significance were there, it should show up somehow. . .

Justcash:

Lagos does not have more factories than Anambra state alone. They may have more big brand factories, but not more factories (Especially small scale).

Are we measuring overall dollar value of the factories, or  just quantity? I'm sure Anambra has more  quantity, but I highly doubt that the overall value of the business they do exceeds that of Lagos.

Otherwise I'm a bit surprised  that McKinsey for example decided to open their office in Lagos rather than Anambra

Justcash:
agos is strategically bad for manufacturing. Why would you manufacture a product that would cost more than it's imported substitutes (Considering ethe Ports)? It is easier to carry out low scale manufacturing in areas that are far from the ports to take advantage of the nearness to consumers.

This rationale doesn't make sense, btw. Not everything will be cheaper to import than to manufacture. I actually think Lagos and Ogun will be phenomenal for manufacturing if/when electricity is available in Nigeria. You have a pretty enormous market nearby, and relatively low overall transportation costs if you build your factories in Ogun.

Interesting posts on manufacturing in the SE. Next time I go to Nigeria, I'll have to see for myself. Unfortunately I've only been to PH. Probably a good idea to see what is going on in Anambra too.

@Akhenaten: Heh, not going to lie, I like Igbo people a lot. And if history had turned out a bit differently, perhaps we wouldn't be in opposition and thus could be friends (as ethnicites rather than on an individual level; obviously plenty of Yoruba/Igbo individuals are friends, married, etc.)

But if I were to abandon Team Yoruba, I'd then join Team USA  

On a serious note though, Awolowo's programs paved the way for my father to attend the University of Ife back when it was amongst the best schools in Nigeria. My grandfather was not a rich man, he was a poor farmer and schoolteacher. My life would be very different today (if I would even exist at all!) if those opportunities had not been available. So the Yoruba have my loyalty and hopefully that of my descendants too.

Akhenaten:
And who are the scapegoat that you have in mind to awaken the mighty Yoruba race? Fear is good, when it is channeled into productive means. Fear of Nazi Germany propelled the U.S. to create a large military complex that would be able to defeat the Nazis and Imperial Japan. However, fear can also consume a nation. Just look at what occurred in Yugoslavia amongst the Serbs, Muslims and Croats.

Good points. And ideally I won't have to use fear to motivate my people to do what is necessary. But if shame/fear/paranoia/etc are the only tools left, we toss the dice.

@Aigbofa: I guess my point is that I work for Team Yoruba, not Team Igbo.

Justcash:
My friend, don't talk ignorantly. Your assertion is wrong. Ogun state gat less factories than Anambra state (E.g Awka and Onitsha). Do a research and find out. I know because I have lived and done business for more than 3 years in both states. I know what I am saying. You can only mention Lagos, and yet Lagos cannot be said to have more factories than the whole of South East.

I would be highly surprised if Lagos State doesn't have more factories than all of the SE. Doesn't it contribute like 40% to the Nigeria's GDP, consume 60% of Nigeria's electricity, etc? These figures are off the top of my head and are probably off to some extent, though.

Aigbofa:
Don't let them patronize you. Victor Banjo comes to mind.

Not the right analogy at all, I don't think. Unless you think that Banjo was secretly a double agent In which case, I don't mind being Banjo

@Akhenaten: Your latter point is a good one, there is some danger in creating a scapegoat. But I don't really have much of a choice if so many Yoruba people here are going to rest on past laurels and ignore economic data that is available online and widely available for anyone to read   Pisses me off that they are content to rest on their laurels and pretending as if everything is OK. Things are not OK at all. And if some people will need to be frightened into realizing this, so be it. Sputnik did a lot of good for the Americans. Perhaps the Yoruba need the same thing. Sometimes fear can be a good thing, if harnessed appropriately. It is certainly better than foolish complacency.

Heh. To a certain extent, Atiku is a smooth operator. Media savvy.

lol.

Ola edo:
There is no need to talk like this.Disrespect and insults are not needed in the doscussion. Keep it political.

If disrespects and insults will wake certain people up, so be it. Let them continue. If the best way to energize my people is to give them an enemy or a bogeyman, then I'm all for insults and disrespect. After all, results are all that matter.

Aigbofa, other Yoruba here, there is no point in discussing like this. Who cares, really?

The main thing is to learn from the good things that others have done and use it for self improvement. I want to see Yoruba leave home more frequently, for example. Venture out of Lagos and the SW more frequently. Abuja is a very rich land. I'm encouraged to see that lots of Yoruba have realized this, but I want to see more of us siezing the abundant opportunities there. Things like that.

Back and forth discussions like this aren't useful unless we learn something from it.

Justcash:


Even If the FG did not continue to kill the Igbos and violation our wives, the Hausas and Yorubas should still have been way ahead of the Igbos. Question is, did they stop developing their regions in order for Igbos to meet up? They gave us a little fairness and we still caught up with their regions. Is it no shameful? I am Igbos, but I am not happy that the Yorubas and Hausas refused to develop their regions with the power they had advantage of. Nigerians would have been alot better if th morons had developed their regions atleast. Who knows, Igbos would have leaned on them and developed faster too.

I've wondered a bit about this. I suspect that there is some sort of economic inelastically going on. There are certain cases I've heard of, countries/regions which have very, very high GDP growth immediately after a war which replaces most of what was lost. Is having a diaspora outside of your region and abroad the equivalent of having a Marshall plan to rebuild Germany, for example? I'm not sure exactly of the answer, not an economist. . . sort of wonder if any of them have done research on things like this.

Like, I look at my own village in Ekiti and see that most of the nice structures there are built by people who are abroad. So perhaps the fastest way to economic growth is a diaspora that sends you a lot of money. So there is a great amount of utility in having a large number of your people outside of your home region, I think.

Anyway, yeah, the Yoruba people imo have been entirely too complacent for the past 30 years. I'm slowly seeing some signs of change, but would definitely like to see more that what is happening now. . .

Long story short though, I'm not too happy with the tendency to rest on past laurels.

Akhenaten:
I guess starvation as a policy is not considered a war of attrition. The last time I checked, in order to defeat Biafra, you had to starve the populace. If my history is correct.

Not sure which account you read of the war , but supply planes were permitted to be flown in. Gowon was extremely generous in that regard, actually. And at some point if your people are starving to death, then it seems to me that quickly seeking an end to a war is a good idea.

kcjazz:
^^^ Too many things determine the price. Loyola Jesuit order is an educational brand, supported by the Archdiocese and the Jesuit order. You can get same quality at say CKC or Regina Pacis in Abuja. In Nigeria, more price means more toys for the kids like learning music, French, excursions, fried eggs instead of beans and corn etc On the other hand a well managed Public school especially the boarding schools can also pull off great results. But again only the exam data would be a valid indicator.

And now we get to the heart of the matter. I've wondered a bit about how effective educational vouchers would be for the Nigerian setting. How effective do you think this solution would be? I guess in conjunction with credible exam data for each school (i.e., no cheating, forging, etc)? I sort of like this idea because Nigerians would get to then vote with their feet. If you don't like your kid's school and think it sucks, you take the voucher money (provided by the state in lieu of the state directly spending money on education) and send him to a private catholic one (for example).

Thoughts on the effectiveness of this in Nigeria?

Also, can you name some of these well managed public schools? Trying to see if any of them have websites and such I can google for.

Eh, regarding whining, pleas for attention. . . perhaps those words were too incendiary, but I feel like I see that a lot here. I remember a recent thread here where someone was blaming a 3rd party for the relative failure of Tinapa or ports in the East (for example.) Things like that tend to piss me off.

I understand why it is strategically advantageous to do it, but it is still annoying.

@chiogo: Nabbed by the spam filter  

Are you sure cost doesn't correlate with quality, though? That is usually the way life is. . . the more you pay, the more you get.

The constant whining and pleas for attention are pretty annoying, but I guess understandable.