₦airaland Forum

Whichever state delivers 24/7 power supply wins this game called Nigeria. Simple as that.

Adams Oshiomole seems to understand how important it is, and how if Edo State becomes the leader in this sector it becomes the (economic) leader of Nigeria.

Other Nigerian governors, political leaders and industrialists would do well to follow his example.

Sucks that they get to inflate their pop for the purposes of voting

EzeUche_:
Yoruba men and their lust for MANY women.

Isn't one woman enough? 

lol

This thread has taken a hilarious twist

lol @ that picture

@ileke-idi: all but one of them are too young regardless

EzeUche_:
If I could get a laptop made in Nigeria, maybe I would be more inclined to. But that is a red herring and you know it

Abeg, you can easily get a laptop made in nigeria. Or at least assembled there. That ain't an excuse. You want other people to be protectionist, but you yourself are free to buy cheaper goods from abroad.

Lol. Looks like the CPC isn't serious about winning there. PDP I guess is at least trying.

So you buy your laptop from japan (sony, I guess?). . . but want someone else to support local nigeria businesses?

na wa o

EzeUche_:
Chinese goods are crap. Africa is just a dumping ground for defective Chinese products that cannot be shipped to the U.S. I rather have an African made product, than a Chinese made product.

In your house in Nigeria, what brand are the computers? And where were they made?

@ftranger and @onye: I calculated the cost of the Chinese buses above. I guess we'd need someone from ANNAMCO/INNOSON to say how much they could price it for.

You are right, i'm making an assumption that the Chinese are able to do it for far cheaper. But there is a chance I'm wrong. Not clear until we see the prices.

Long story short, we all want manufacturing in Nigeria to succeed. I'm advocating attacking the problem by reducing the costs of the manufacturer (with electricity being the primary input). Ya'll I guess have a different approach in mind.

alex101:
Let me get this straight, you are against manufacturing things like autos in nigeria until nigeria fix electricity?

If the answer to the above is YES, then nigeria is a mirage then, or not?

See response below.

fstranger3:
They can generate their own local electricity. How come Nigerian Universities, Asorock, State Houses, and important institutions have 24 hrs electricity?  It can be done.


 How?

Depends on what source they use, right? If electricity from a gasoline gen, then $0.30+ per kWh. Paying this much for your electricity to manufacture cars, when the Chinese pay $0.10 or $0.15 per kWh. . . your goods will cost a lot more.

I'm not against manufacturing in nigeria, but I want us to be able to do it at competitive prices. . . which means fixing electricity in nigeria.

alex101:
@ the bolded, you crack me up You and I know there are tones of white elephant projects embarked on by politicians in nigeria. This one is not one of them though, as it is by an individual who is business savvy

How business savvy can he be that he is manufacturing cars in a country with no electricity? 

Anyway, we know how much the chinese bus costs. How much would the ANNAMCO or INNOSON ones cost? We can then compare and judge the FG's decision.

Finally, I'm pretty virulently against white elephant projects. . . so you are preaching to the choir

Onlytruth:
I believe that we've had 50 years for us to generate electricity, but failed to do so.
Therefore waiting for that before we start manufacturing is not a good idea. In fact I believe that we should start manufacturing everything TODAY because in the process we will develop the technical skill set to defeat the power monster.
You see my point?

No. They are two separate issues. Starting a bunch of manufacturing projects doesn't mean you'll solve power. I think you'd compound the problem, make it worse with your subsidy approach. I think you need to take a look at how much electricity costs in Nigeria versus elsewhere and see how it absolutely has to be fixed first. . . you cannot skip this step.

As for the computer, Zinox is the top Nigerian brand the last time I checked; they produce everything from laptops to servers.

That doesn't mean anything. There are plenty of computer brands here, but generally only a few names who give the best prices. Lots of whack small guys who have a full product line, but charge too much for what they provide. I'd certainly not patronize such a businessman just because he is my neighbor. . . I'll instead buy parts from newegg.com or something.

I AM A CAPITALIST TOO.  

However, I am an American brand of capitalist. No strategic industry develops without government support (grants and patronage).

We subsidize farming, and spent lots of money on defense research. But I don't think the bulk of industry here is subsidized. Manufacturing for the most part is not.

I notice that you carefully never answered the question about your use of a local laptop

alex101:
Seriously Eku, when do you think nigeria should try its hand at manufacturing automobile?

I don't care, personally. The question for me is not, "when should Nigeria manufacture X", but "which is the most profitable good for Nigeria to be producing"? It might turn out that we are better equipped to focus on thoroughly dominating the West African tire market. I'd much rather find a good niche and be dominant at it (i.e., produce at the best prices in my region), than fake glory projects like manufacturing cars (at uncompetitve prices)  

Also, are you 100% sure the locally made one is more expensive than the foreign (china) made one?

For the specific vehicle he drove at the time, yes. I cannot remember the specifics though.

If electricity is solved, then Nigerian manufacturing becomes a lot more competitive and probably won't need subsidies.

Why would the gov't need to subsidize anyone if you have a country where you can pay a worker $100/month, and spend (for example) $0.15 per kWh for electricity?

At that point, we have a significant advantage against the Chinese and anybody else, at least when competing in the West African market for many different sorts of goods.

Asking for subsidies without facing the electricity problem is putting the cart before the horse.

Onlytruth:
In all honesty, we (you and me) share widely different views on this. And I would go a step to say that the difference is cultural.
I believe I can start a manufacturing (even if low quality at first) and grow from there.
You believe you must be perfect from day one.

No. My point is, hunt for opportunities where you have an advantage. . . or at worst, a small disadvantage. Don't hunt for businesses to invest in in which you have a significant disadvantage and require being propped up by the government to do well. I'm pretty much a pure capitalist. You seem to be some sort of socialist, I guess.

Well, there is a Nigeria assembled computer called Zinox and it did not start perfect.
That is part of why I lament Nigeria's failures because a Biafra would have gone very far.

Are you using a local laptop, or a foreign one?

Do you guys actually put your money where your mouth is? Do you buy locally made goods when they cost far more than the equivalent abroad? If not, then imo you are being hypocrites.

For me, the things that Nigeria makes cheaper (local food items, for example), I stock up on. But if I need an LCD, I'll buy one from where it is most cheaply made. Same with a computer. . . I'll buy from where it is most cheaply made.

I bet for 99% of you, you are sitting there typing on a laptop/computer assembled outside of Nigeria.

alex101:
This oil don finish this country, Too many lazy folks in govt who don't wanna promote local ingenuity that would create and spread wealth.
To these clowns in govt, as long as the oil cash keep flowing (monthly allocation and other goodies), manufacturing is not needed. Well, we shall see how long nigeria can the massive size of govt that is growing day by day, with just oil money.

If "local ingenuity" = "buy my widget X for 3 times as much as you can get it outside of Nigeria", then let me come too and feed from the trough.

Local ingenuity ko, government subsidy ni.

Onlytruth:
Are the foreign elements also influencing youths like Eku_bear?

Would Eku_bear take the same position if those automobile factories are in Lagos or Ogun State?

What baffles me more is that, these types of youths even fail to see that if ANNAMCO or INNOSON fails, no one will attempt to start similar company in ANY part of Nigeria.
Their failure is Nigeria's failure.

Always that, isn't it? There must be an anti-Igbo sentiment behind my position, right? If ANNAMCO/INNOSON were Yoruba-owned businesses, I'd want the gov't to piss away money subsidizing them?
I'm not a fan of gov't propping up failed business models, and have never been. If a mumu Yoruba businessman decides to invest heavily in a business in which he has no comparative advantage, I certainly will not be the one to advocate that anyone saves him.

See, this is the type of business which makes sense in Yorubaland at this time: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-18/nestle-nigeria-full-year-profit-climbs-29-as-sales-rise.html

A chocolate factory in Ogun State. Food manufacturing/processing is something that doesn't require massive amounts of tech to execute well. From there, you can progress further up the tech chain. This is the way of the world. The US was not a high-end tech country back in the day; it was a nation primarily of farmers and exporters of raw goods. Then they progressed over time up the tech chain.

@ Eku_bear,

Nigeria has been producing car parts for YEARS.

When are we going to start producing complete cars?

The car parts are of terrible quality dude, or high prices. My dad had me buy a bunch of tires for his car and ship them to him. Somehow it was cheaper for a tire probably manufactured in China, sent to Houston, then loaded on a plane and flown to Nigeria to be cheaper for him than just buying locally  

So today in Nigeria, there is STILL opportunity to setup a tire plant for high-end vehicles. Just make sure the prices are good and the quality high, and you'll make money.

@Onlytruth: I'm not arguing against patronage. I just want us to first grab (patronize) the low-hanging fruit that is easiest to get, rather than the fruit at the top of the tree that is more difficult/costly to obtain.

Nigeria right now cannot beat China at manufacturing cars. But building a factory that supplies a single component for a car (e.g., tires)? Well, do that well, make sure the plant is supplied with natural gas/rubber/etc so that you can produce at competitive prices, and you can probably steal the Chinese tire business in Nigeria and all of West Africa. Once you secure that business, you move into other components of the car. Until one day you manufacture (at competitive prices) all the components of a car.

Anyone who is seriously suggesting that Nigeria should spend enormous amounts of resources patronizing car manufacturers without ensuring that one of the inputs to said car (electricity) is available at reasonable prices simply doesn't have a clue what is going on.

Otoh, if government policy will allow massive subsidies to companies who aren't otherwise economically viable. . . well, I too can start an economically unviable business, and thus demand to be propped up by the government  

EkuBear Aerospace can produce airplanes at 3X the cost of the big names. Let us buy from EkuBear Aerospace though, in the name of patriotism 

matazzmagi:
Awolowo was a devil and his policies led to the present problems that the people of Niger Delta are fighting, the yoruba instead should apologize to the Niger Delta people for the federal government's policies the late premier of defunct Western Region influenced against the interest of the Niger Delta." --- Asari Dokubo. Champion Newspapers. Tuesday March 22, 2005.

Lol. I hope dude isn't holding his breath for any apology. Damn sure isn't getting one.

pleep:
that is a great price,  but what about the quality? with these kind of things you get what you pay for and china is not known for quality.

also wouldn't it be better for the govnt to invest in the domestic market? this would create tons of jobs remember,
that 150k is going DIRECTLY into the nigerian economy instead of china's. despite the extra cost isnt it worth it?

its the peoples money right? haha

Ask the people sef if they want to pay that much more money.

And are you really arguing that a Chinese car is going to be of lower quality than a Nigerian one?  What is your basis for saying this, given their much greater experience in this sector than us?

Anyway, it isn't as if I'm anti-Nigerian. But buying overpriced goods just because they are local is effectively a subsidy to the local manufacturer. So you have to really ask yourself:
A) Is this money I'm giving to the manufacturers truly the best use of Nigeria's money?
B) Am I sure I want to spend lots of money propping up a company with a flawed business model?

Like I said earlier, I don't mind subsidizing things which I think we'll have a competitive advantage in. Until there is electricity in Nigeria, we don't have an edge in anything that uses large amounts of electricity as an input. So no point subsidizing it.

Becomerichn is the greatest Yorubaman to have ever lived

Igwe-1:
@EKU
You are just speculating. How do you know that those companies cost 50% more? And how do you know that a good negociation with those companies will not bring down any added cost and creat jobs and wealth for the country. It is people like you and your unwillingness to give Nigerian companies a chance that is destroying the country. Pathetic,

It depends on what you are trying to achieve. I don't mind subsidizing local business in Nigeria where I feel a competitive advantage can one day emerge. Farming, light manufacturing, things like that should be subsidized.

But auto manufacturing?  For that, you are on your own. . . no gov't subsidies for that. We don't even have electricity in this country, and you want to manufacture cars? Seems a bit silly, to me.

THE Federal Government and its Chinese counterpart have signed a N5.5 billion urban mass transit deal, with a view to boosting the Nigerian transport sector.
Under the scheme being brokered by the Urban Development Bank of Nigeria (UDBN) for the Nigeria Labour Congress (NLC) and Trade Union Congress (TUC), about 550 urban mass transit buses would be injected to the Nigerian transport system.

octave:3> 5.5*10**9/150/550
ans =  6.6667e+04

So $66.7K per bus? That is a phenomenal deal, and a great price. Can anybody in Nigeria build an entire bus for under $70K? I don't think we can do that here in the US or even with Mexican labor; labor is too expensive. Maybe India can do it that cheaply.

Certainly nobody in Nigeria can.

I wouldn't be surprised if the bus costs $150k+ to build in Nigeria.

Chinese make things cheaper than Nigerians can 

What if it turns out ANNAMCO and INNOSON vehicles cost 50% more than Chinese ones?

Would you yourself buy local?

HArd to be competitive making things that require electricity.

☻ajali☺:
@All

It is very depressing but read this. Anybody in the Jos area and other parts is a victim, a victim of history.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0Bzk7_FAcxq95M2VjMWE3OWItZTJhNC00ZDM4LThlODItMmU2M2NlNzYxNTU4&authkey=COvi_6gK&hl=de (it needs some seconds for loading)

Thanks for the ref. Very eye-opening.

I'm mildly hopeful about this new university that the FG is building. Capital projects like this really transform towns. We probably need about 10+ or so capital projects of the size of the university to really get things moving, though.

fstranger3:
^^^

Another Ekiti Yoruba rascal

Rascals and troublemakers all. . .but damn proud of it.

asha 80:
until states are 'forced' to generate their own revenue the seriousness of states carving their own niche will be a mirage

Might be true. Necessity is the mother of invention.

Onlytruth:
Have you ever seen a mountain of cow $h!t?
If not, head to Okiti.   I ain't going though. Can't stand the stench.

Lol. Comparing the smell of Ekiti to that of any part of Igboland is a losing proposition for you  

Ogedengbe is an Ileshaman, yes. It is Fabunmi who is popular amongst Ekiti.

Though Western Ekiti borders Ileshaland, and many of the towns there are primarily of mixed Osun/Ekiti origin. After the war, Fabunmi became a king in Osun rather than in his hometown in Ekiti, iirc.

@cau: pop density. Read the other thread on this forum started by Ikenagwo. Essentially the answer is population density. Igboland is tiny in size, but very densely populated. Yorubaland is much bigger and less densely populated. Wealth is being concentrated in very small geographic locales in Yorubaland, while the hinterland remains underdeveloped.

It is mostly a global trend though, not Yorubaland-specific. People are migrating to cities across the world.

^-- Ikogosi warm spring is all I know about off the top of my head.

That, and copious amounts of marijuana. . .