₦airaland Forum

Justcash:
LIKE I SAID, ARGUING WITH YOU WILL AMOUNT TO GIVING FREE EDUCATION TO A DUNCE.

You aren't involved in any sort of legitimate business, simple as that. Don't get mad at me for that.

naijaking1:
Even if you feel the buses should not be made by Igbos, For goodness sake have them made in Ibadan or Kano, even in Ghana, because the technology will be more easily transferred than from China.

That is not my argument at all. I'm not anti-Igbo. Obviously it benefits everyone in Nigeria if they are made in Nigeria. . . at competitive prices! If it costs 2X to make in Nigeria, and costs only X to make in China, then we are effectively subsidizing the local manufacturer. Sometimes this is a good thing, sometimes this is bad. Imo, for this particular business, subsidy is bad.

Let me use another analogy. I'm decent at basketball, but not great at it. Does it make sense for me to seek a career as a pro basketball player, when I don't have a competitve advantage at it   However, I'm good at certain other things. Those things are what I'm investing my time in.

I'm not opposed to technology transfer. But if the buses cost X each from China, and say 2X locally, then you probably want to buy from China, no? Certainly, demand some tech transfer. Local assembly. Etc, etc. But at the end of the day, you buy from China.

Then later on down the line when electricity runs 24/7, you'll have a competitive advantage and can start supply the local market at competitive prices.

Justcash:

How did I look at it from a Tribal angle? Between Nigeria and China, who got more comparative advantage in terms of cost of manufacturing? Why do you think spending millions in the process of importing and on the products themselves makes more sense than just doing it in Nigeria? Your Dapo knows nothing. You don't just need theoretical knowledge to understand what I am saying. You need practical knowledge.

Jesu! So you are saying that Nigeria has a competitive advantage over China when it comes to manufacturing?!   If it did. . . then this thread would not even exist, would it? If I remember correctly, even labor in China is slightly cheaper. Not to talk of the numerous other inputs.

Fake businessman!

You are a drug mule sitting in Japan somewhere.

What do you know of business when you swallow cocaine wrapped in condoms? Abeg, let me not report you to your local authorities.

Let everyone take note.

If you do not buy shi1tty Igbo products, then you are in fact a bigot. And they'll secede.

Heh, keep making all your bullsh1t threats. Me, a guy who would otherwise be relatively neutral will instead work very hard in his life to keep you under Nigeria's boot.

Can you imagine a man begging for a handout and then threatening if you don't give one?

Onlytruth:
Now I'm convinced that you are even a mental case. If you use Igbo and hand-out in one language, you are beyond redemption.

I'm not the one asking for a subsidy. That is YOU.

For your information, most of us here talking to you guys are actually talking to the members of the international community who frequent this site to form opinion about Nigeria and Nigerians. By now, they know who has been drawing the country back and who it the parasite. One day, they will sit in judgment over our request for secession.

Keep talking. Let's see whether anything comes of it.

If Israel was defeated in 1948, you will not a have an Israeli made CPU today in your computer because the last time I checked, no Arab nation made one.

The point is that they instead searched for areas where they had competitive advantage. It wasn't at independence that they built their tech sector. In fact, it is only within the past 10 years that they've been able to do this.

Most people with sense in their heads say, "Hey, which business do I have a bit of an advantage? Let me exploit that." Not, "I wanna do X. I'm not competitive at it, but I'll feed at the government trough."

Justcash:
Look at how many made in Japan electronics that you have. You may just have my brand among them. Those products would have been made in Nigeria if your local and illiterate brain was big enough to understand the principles of economics. If you think it is cheaper to manufacture in a foreign land than in Nigeria (Even with all the lack of basic infrastructures), then you must be a Demented backside-h_ole.

God in heaven! You are a dumbass. Are you really involved in any sort of legitimate business? No doubt a drug pusher, that is what you are exporting.

Labor is cheap in Nigeria, yes. But obviously if that were the only input, then Nigeria would have a significant competitive advantage against most other countries, and would likely be a net exporter of finished goods.

Is this the lot of your typical Igbo businessman? Beg and plead for others to buy their sh1tty products, then threaten to secede if they don't? No wonder everyone on earth hates your kind.

This is what I don't get about the Jewish comparisons. At least Israelis MAKE stuff that I like to buy. CPUs from a plant in Israel. I even saw some underwear from Israel one time at Wal-Mart. Never hear about the Jewish man begging for a handout.

Abeg, no beggars permitted. You won't get a dime from me.

^--- The bleatings of two impotent goats. Divide the country, if you have the strength.

Kidnapping seems a bit odd though. What if they shot and killed him? Why is it clearly a kidnapping attempt?

Beaf:
85% IGR means, you have a shortfall and the beggar analogy applies remorselessly.
We are all beggars, and it really looks ridiculous when beggars laugh at other beggars.

Err, not when Lagos State is getting gypped out of port revenue and VAT money. The amount it is losing to the FG very likely makes up for the tiny amounts it gets back.

If someone offers Lagos State the choice of exchanging VAT revenues earned within the state + full control of its port revenues in exchange for losing all FG allocations, I suspect that the state takes that offer every time.

Justcash:
I detest eku-bear and those that feel that Nigerian manufacturers are not worth patronising. Pardon me, but their arguments just showed how useless some Nigerians are.
If I produce DVD machines in Japan, and decide to call them a twisted "Nnamdi" e.g Nnamotosoki. Eku bear and his fellow morons will rush to buy them, than if I had a branch in Nigeria that had produced the same DVD machines and simply called them"Nnamdi". These DVD machines may be produced in Nigeria by the my same Japanese employees, with the same equipments and same quality. Yet it will be despised because it is made in Nnewi and Nigeria.

Lol. Your argument is garbage. And never in your life put my name and m.oron in the same sentence. You who are not fit to lace my shoes, calling me a m.oron?

I laugh in Igbo.

Eko Ile:
Dude is bad-luck. Stay away from him if you don't want to die. Even Nigeria self need to stay away from him.

Maybe Yar'Adua would have lived longer if he didn't have GEJ's dark cloud hovering over him

Lagos State @ 85%+ IGR = Beggar?

Lagos State which contributes most of Nigeria's VAT money, port income = Beggar?

Na wa o. What you say factually isn't even true.

Well, we should then be able to do something similar for Lagos State. If Igbo are 30%+ of Lagos State's population, which of the following LGAs are they more than 30% of?

https://i53.tinypic.com/16jn5n5.png

Indeed, speak for yourself, Beaf.

Obiagu1:
Unfortunately, you counted everyone in Ilorin as Yoruba whereas it is where the Hausa/Fulani live, so it is less than 72%.

Well, I don't have %e breakdowns of what people speak in each LGA. Also, two of those LGAs I classified as Nupe, when in fact Yoruba is the 2nd language in both.

Anyway, might be less (or more) than 72.8%, but certainly not as little as 50%.

2ndly, just like Rivers is not an Igbo State, so is Kwara not a Yoruba State.

To do so in Rivers is difficult because of the high mix of Igbos with the Ijaws/Ogonis.

One could certainly begin estimating. Or where did you get that 70% figure from?

Pretty sad stuff. Still, if there was an agreement, it should be honored.

If GEJ wins now, he'll be there until 2019.

Wish I could see the advert.

@Obiagu1: Where do they live then, the Igbo? Three out of every 10 people in Lagos State are Igbo? I'm not even focused on politics. Just language. Any district here in the US that has 30% Mexicans, Spanish is a major language. Why is Igbo not a major language in Lagos?

In Benin Republic, Yoruba are probably 30-40% of the population, yet it is one of the major languages. I met a chick from Cotonou this weekend, mixed Fon/Yoruba, she tells me that the major language there in Cotonou is Yoruba. And I don't even think we are a strict majority there, Fon likely outnumber us.

Regarding Kwara, I went ahead and looked at the census data by LGA. Looks like 72.8% is a better estimate, not 85%:

http://i55.tinypic.com/11vsh3p.png

Perhaps you can do something similar with Rivers (http://www.population.gov.ng/state/riversfinal.pdf) and estimate the Igbo population.

EDIT: As an aside, this is why I've always been against this Oya State stuff. How can we carve out a new state from a state in which Yoruba are a supermajority, where the governor and his family are Egba?  Kwara must not be divided.

SOmebody needs to contact Annamco and ask them how much one of these buses costs:

http://www.anammco.com/default.asp?p=MBO1721InterCityBus

Obiagu1: So you are saying one out of every five persons in Lagos STATE is Igbo? The entire state, not one or two districts.

Yet nobody ever hears Igbo spoken on the street? There are no major Igbo elected officials? No Igbo districts? Asians are 18% of the state I live in (California) and their impact is felt. I'll walk around and see them speaking Chinese to each other on the street. We have several Chinatowns nearby where the street signs are in Chinese. If I wanted to, I could move to somewhere where I'll only be interacting with Asians.

20% might even be too high for Igbo in Lagos State. How can they be 1/5th of the population and have nothing politically, linguistically, or culturally to show for it?

Regarding Kwara. . . it IS a Yoruba State. How many non-Yoruba speakers have you ever met in your life from Kwara?

Those clamoring for Oya State are primarily folks from Offa area, iirc. Jarus's part of town. Offa has never been a fan of Ilorin political domination.

If it isn't a Yoruba state, then pray tell which ethnic group owns it?

@Obiagu1:

Let's make the following (imo, generous) assumptions:


SE, 98% Igbo, 7028560
Rivers State, 70% Igbo, 2419057
Delta, 30% Igbo, 1900055
Lagos, 20% Igbo, 6247845
SW minus Lagos, 2% Igbo, 8050511
Northern Nigeria, 5% Igbo, 33.11 million

Let's multiply and add up:
octave:22> 7028560*0.98+2419057*.7+1900055*.3+6247845*.2+8050511*.02+33.11*1e6*.05
ans =  1.2217e+07


We get 12.217 million Igbo votes including the North, 10.562 million excluding it. So you are getting 1.655 million additional votes in the North.

Let's do the same for Yoruba:
SW - Lagos, 95% Yoruba, 8050511
Lagos, 50% Yoruba, 6247845
Kwara, 85% Yoruba, 1115665
Kogi, 25% Yoruba, 1215405
Rest of North, 1%, 33.11*1e6 - 1115665 - 1215405

Multiply and add up:
octave:27> 8050511*.95+6247845*.5+1115665*.85+1215405*.25+.01*(33.11*1e6-1115665-1215405)
ans =  1.2332e+07

So 12.332 million Yoruba votes including Kwara and Kogi and the North, 10.772 million in the SW alone. So 115k more Yoruba votes than Igbo, even
assuming that the North is as populated as they claim.

But what if we slash this Northern population in half? Including Kwara and Kogi? Igbo votes:
octave:35> 7028560*0.98+2419057*.7+1900055*.3+6247845*.2+8050511*.02+33.11*1e6*.05*1/2
ans =  1.1390e+07

Yoruba votes:
octave:36> 8050511*.95+6247845*.5+1/2*(1115665*.85+1215405*.25+.01*(33.11*1e6-1115665-1215405))
ans =  1.1552e+07

Our advantage has increased slightly, from 115k to 162k votes.

This in a nutshell is why I'm not convinced that Igbo are the most numerous anymore. The assumptions here I think were somewht generous:
[list]
[*] I assumed 20% of Lagos is Igbo, only 50% of Lagos is Yoruba. My suspicion is something more like 60%/15% might be more accurate.
[*] I also gave you 70% of Rivers.
[*] And assumed that 1 out of every 20 residents of the North are Igbo.
[*] In the first calculation, I accepted the Northern %s on face value.
[/list]

But despite this, it appears that Yoruba are more numerous.

Obiagu1:
Sure. We only have to bridge the divide between SE and SS which we are already doing or trying to do. At worst, If an Igbo vies for a position, SS Igbos' votes will be guaranteed.

I didn't forget, I know that Yorubas are in Kogi too but remember I underestimated the Igbo population in Delta; I only put it at 30% but they are more than that. In addition, I can bet that the number of Igbos in Lagos is almost the same as that of Igbos in the North. Luxury buses that move Igbos to both North and Lagos have almost the same volume.
It's easier to estimate Igbos in Lagos that other states.

Fair enough. We can agree to disagree.

Obiagu1:
Do Igbos only live in the SE? That's the mistake many people make.
Rivers is more or less an Igbo State and the Igbos along with the Urhobos are the two major groups in Delta; Ijaw and Isoko are extreme minorities.

Fine and well. But somehow, elections in Nigeria never turn out that way. You can only guarantee the votes of regions you control.

Yorubas are not more than the Igbos in Nigeria. Come up with an estimate let's see.

We very well might be. Here is a post I made earlier that commented on your own calculations: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=610247.msg7782539#msg7782539

You may have missed it. But I'm not sure that ya'll are more numerous than we are. If you are, it isn't by much.

matazzmagi:
Suicide is an abomination people that commit- suicide  they dont even get proper burial,In the olden days, Most common -depression leads to commiting suicide Its a serious mental illness and not some kind of expression.Which most suicidal belive they are trying to make,some do it or tryring to commit- suicide for attention, it can be many things that can lead a man or woman to commit-suicide according to holy Bible murder is a sin and suicide is murder.So awolowo have his own blood plus 2million biafran children on his head to answer TOO BAD,

There is a difference between:
[list]
[A] ordinary citizens committing suicide
[B] and leaders willing to sacrifice themselves for a cause, by suicide if necessary
[/list]

(A) is bad, (B) is not only good, it is absolutely needed. In most great nations, the leader absolutely must be willing to sacrifice himself for the cause, or for his beliefs. Buddhist monks who engaged in self-immolation. Leaders such as MLK were jailed and beaten repeatedly but kept on rather than fleeing or quitting. The Japanese leadership. Mandela who was given the choice of leaving prison if he'd renounce his beliefs. Even Hitler, as low a dog as he is had the honor to commit suicide rather than giving himself up. I can go on and on with examples.

There is simply no justification for lionizing Ojukwu. He fled. He didn't commit honorable suicide. He didn't go into the jungle to lead a guerrilla movement. He didn't stay and negotiate. He simply fled.

Anyway, it is a free world. Ya'll can lionize Ojukwu if you like. But don't expect the rest of humanity to do so.

^-- So then which is the least bad of the options?

Suppose that GEJ is Edwin Clark's cat's paw, and that Buhari is another northern feudalist who will use the fake population in the north to ensure that they always decide who becomes president.

Which of those two terrible options should I pick? 

They both seem equally bad to me.

Obiagu1, she is correct, unfortunately. How on earth will you guys ever win the presidency with voting registration #s such as this? Only 7 million registered in the SE? I know it doesn't reflect your true population, but to me it seems a bad thing to only control that few votes.

jason123:
Dapo, politically speaking, if CPC AND ACN had merged, they would win the lection hands down. I mean, from the 28% nw and 21% sw = 48% apart from Ondo state in ND maybe edo too. Also, the combined influence of the SW and NW would probably get Kwara and Kogi.

If i had my druthers, no northerner would ever rule Nigeria again. I mean, they've run the country long enough, have they not?  And their fake #s in the North pisses me off. So I'd like to support GEJ for this reason alone. . . just to keep them out of power.

PhysicsMHD:
lol, yeah. I was impressed that he was "different" from the past Nigerian leaders. Which he indeed is. He's a quiet guy who's not a good speaker and makes gaffes, but clearly writes intelligently, at least (probably how he got his Ph.D., I can't imagine his viva going over too well considering his speaking skills).

What is your basis for saying this? None of us have read his PhD thesis. How do you know he is a skilled writer?

However, I've come to realize that he simply is not the best that Nigeria can produce. Then there's the fact that he's surrounding himself with all sorts of corrupt people like Anenih. Then the Ogun political crisis. Then the Jos crisis/murders and doing nothing. Then Boko haram in Borno and doing nothing. Then the bungled JTF operations, then the lies about the number of aides.

Let me play GEJ's advocate for a second. Regarding Ogun, Jos, Borno. . . his hands are a bit tied. He cannot rock the boat too much. He cannot piss off the northerners, and he needs both factions in Ogun if he wants to win SW votes.

As for my Ijaw comment, that was provoked by seeing what's really going on with Ijaws right now. It's ironic that GEJ is anti-tribal given what's going on with his own people.

When I saw the fake 14 million population for Ijaws, I laughed. When I saw the 10 million population figure, I naively believed it, not knowing they had an agenda. Now that I know that they're possibly not up to 5 million but have being floating 25 million, 14 million, 10 million, etc. around; that they're claiming indigenous ownership of the parts of 4-5 different states that they aren't indigenous to, and with Edwin Clark negotiating behind the scenes with Northerners not for merely a south-south, but specifically an Ijaw VP, it's become clear that the last few years has basically been about the uninterrupted rise of Ijaw nationalism.

At times I wonder what the extent of GEJs relationship with the Edwin Clarks of the world are. Is he just the good cop to their bad cop? Perhaps they are all working for the same team.

However, surely an Urhobo guy like Beaf wouldn't have anything to do with Goodluck if that were the case? It would be clear how that is bad news for him and his people, no?

But I agree, the Ijaw man has come very far over the course of the past decade. Despite his small #s.

To be honest, I don't like any of the presidential candidates. Just trying to figure out which one of them I dislike the least.

As if Osun people would destroy their own property  

They might find the nearest non-native's property and destroy it, though.

Lol, if GEJ rigs this election, he is then truly a madman.

jason123:
You can't even speak the language well . . . . It is Osun o ni baje!!!!

What is up with all these Igbos and fake usernames? Na wa o

jason123:
That is where you are wrong. GEJ does not need the SW or/and the NW votes! Why? because he would still rig win the election

So GEJ will rig the SW and NW into voting for him? I suppose he wants civil war in Nigeria, then? 

Seriously though, he cannot outrig a prince of rigging like Tinubu.

ifele:
Will the day come when Yorubaland will be free and restored to nationhood?

Eh, so long as there aren't power-mad dictators who hate the Yoruba (like Abacha) in charge, I'm not sure we aren't better off just staying. I dunno, let's chill for a bit and see how things progress over the next few years. If certain things like power are delivered, then i think we may as well stay.

PhysicsMHD:
GEJ's anti-tribalistic attitude will provide a nice, convenient cover for Ijaw expansionism and power-grabbing.

Et tu, PhysicsMHD? You were a fan of GEJ not too long ago

Suicide is more honorable than fleeing. This has always been the way of man.

Many books and works of art romanticize the captain who goes down with the ship, the general who leads a final, hopeless charge.

In no land on the face of Earth except the SE is the fleeing general lionized.

Sorry to be so blunt about it, but that is just reality.