₦airaland Forum

@Beaf: Fine, we get it. All of us are oil beggars. Oil almajiris, even

Even me, no doubt my college education was paid for by the generous people of the ND. No doubt my village will starve w/o the largesse of the ND. You'll see me on a TV ad. . .

"For only one dollar a day, YOU can feed this hungry Ekiti man!"

And then they'll pan to a shot of me emaciated, my ribs sticking out with a begging bowl, in the lush, bountiful bush near my village

netotse:
@dapo bear
lagos has a 21.5% stake in AES. . .it doesn't own it, we've discussed this before haven't we?

I'm not sure what the significance of what exactly the percentage is. In fact, I was under the impression that it was wholly privately owned, and that Lagos didn't have any share in it. Just that a corporation found it advantageous to locate power generation there.

Anyway, the point is that Lagos would be able to quickly get electricity up and running if it were not subject to the regulations and whims of the Nigerian FG (that include sending the generate electricity to the national grid rather than keeping it for their own use.)

Yeah, the electricity subsidy is a big reason why electricity is moribund in Nigeria; nobody enjoys selling something (electricity) for less than it costs. Hence the lack of supply.

This is why I'm laughing a bit.

Economic impact of 24 hours power supply >>> money from the Delta; I'd much rather have the former than the latter.

And remember, Lagos has an offshore grid producing 210 MW of energy. If Nigeria disintegrates, then Lagos is not bound to give that 210 MW to the national grid anymore, and can instead use it for its own consumption (while charging fair value for it.) If they do this and expand from the 7 offshore barges they have to 30 or 40, then they generate enough electricity to power not only the state, but the rest of the SW.

Do this and I could care less if the Nigeria disintegrates.

I've seen absolutely nothing on the ground from the federal government in my village or state. So who cares if the oil money goes? It isn't benefiting my people anyways. Like I said, most of the nice infrastructure in my village is from money made in the US or Europe.

Your threats/predictions are only meaningful to the elites who steal government money.

To be quite frank, if Nigeria disintegrates, who really cares?

I'd much rather have power, good roads, and access to foreign investment/capital than the piddling oil wealth that reaches my state. Give me foreign capital and I can make up the lost oil wealth through internal development in 5 years, max.

Beaf:
With zero fuel availabilty and costs shooting towards outer space where available (no money for subsidies)?
Everything will grind to a very miserable halt and it will be off to the UN to beg for aid to avert hunger and humanitarian catastrophe.

Hunger, ke? Haba! In the two weeks I was in my village, most of what I ate was locally produced from our farmers. I cannot speak for other regions of the country, by the SW is still a verdant, green land. Not only do we have lots of land that could be converted to farmland, the existing farms are primarily small shareholds that use very little western technology to produce productivity/acre.

There is no chance of the SW starving. Middle Belt, same. Certain other regions, I know less about, though.

And why would fuel cease to be available? After all, it is largely imported.

Beaf:
^
Please don't view my words as threats. They are a reaction to you guys highly unwise bullying attitude. Things could unravel pretty quickly if we cannot see beyond narrow and very primitive ethnic confines. Then, sudden reality would strike; my words simply paint that stack reality.

Has it suddenly shifted from SS to ND now?

Dude, it is Nigeria that is pushing her luck. People can only be pushed so far.
Please enlighten me on what your state and LG would do if Abuja handouts dried up tomorrow, because the SS decides enough is enough? Will you not switch to begging for aid at the UN? Can you imagine how catastrophic that would be? They say pride goeth before a fall, your huge "majority" population would suddenly become a horrible liability. Do you play chess? I think not.

What aid would we be seeking from the UN? Like, at present, most of the federal monies don't necessarily reach the people anyway. In my own village, most of the nice buildings/property there is built by rich folk who work in Lagos/Abuja/SS/Europe/US.

Honestly, I think we'd be just fine; we'd be forced to manage resources properly and develop a new source of revenue. Like I said earlier, access to international capital markets to me is a lot more intriguing a proposition than the piddling oil wealth we get from the FG.

But of course the best case scenario is to add whatever oil derivations we are getting to proper management rather than just proper management alone.

Hrm, does anyone have the amount of FG allocations given to each state handy and listed somewhere? It would be interesting to see. . . I imagine that the actual cash that say my Ekiti State gets is probably on the order of like 10 or 15 cents per citizen per day. Piddling amount of money like that makes no real difference.

fstrangest:
I totally disagree

The ND is a minority in all respects. The country cannot be bugged down my attending to every concerns/agitations of every minority. They should just keep quiet and enjoy what they currently enjoy. Of they push their luck too far, they'd only have themselves to blame.

Might doesn't really make right, imo. Imagine how you'd feel if your part of the country produces most of the exports of the nation but has little to show for it. I don't think it is fair, personally.

Same time though, I'm not really interested in Beaf's empty threats.

Ideally the situation could be resolved equitably, say by giving the Niger Delta full control over the natural gas resources there (a resource that could make them gobs of money, which I'd be happy to buy from them in large amounts!)

To me, that would be pretty fair. But the current situation imo is unfair.

fstrangest:
I am trying to put things in context.

In the same token, the ND, even with her resources, would never be as sophisticated as either France or Germany.

I think if properly managed, it could. But this is a big question mark, of course.

Beaf:
Take it like a wise man or leave it. The SS is Nigeria, treat the place right, guarantee our human rights and justice and we will all be happy.

I strongly disagree with the former statement. But I do feel that the rights of the people there should not be trampled over. Equity and justice for all, ideally.

fstrangest:
They can still do all that as a sovereign state.

The ND can do that through AU.

The AU is a pretty pitiful and useless body. Being the head of that doesn't mean very much, imo.

@Beaf: Obviously we have very different views on this issue. Perhaps we should leave it at that.

fstrangest:
How?

Would you rather be like Kuwait or close ranks with Iraq.

If I were from ND, with all its 'supposed' might, I'd have seceded since 1956. Why play second fiddle in Nigerian politics when you could be balling all by yourself like Benin republic.

Being the top dog in a federation is more intriguing to me, personally. You get to use your resources to not only strengthen your region, but also expand economically into other regions. Think Germany/France leading the EU, for example.

fstrangest:
That right there is the blunt truth.
Beaf knows how to build castles in the air
And he is good.

The ND is not even up to 20 million, at most, maybe 10 million, probably less than that, may be between 5-6 million,
If they were to secede, they would become the Kuwait of Africa, that to me is enough reason to secede. Too bad our Oga Beaf does not see it that way.

Kuwait? No. Their leaders would of course steal from them again. Honestly, the amount of money they get in oil derivations should be enough to make those states flourish. Wealth is no good if it is grossly mismanaged. As much as I sympathize with the people of the Delta, they'd only be replacing one oppressor (the Nigerian FG) with another (their own governors and leaders.)

A relative of mine owns some property in PH. He wanted to fence it. Within 24 hour of him making this decision, he received a phone call from some community elders down there, claiming he needed to settle them to prevent area boys from causing wahala. So this relative (a guy who also sympathizes with their plight) said that they should call everyone from the community so he could pay them all at once. I think they wanted some insane amount at first (like 700K naira   ), he negotiated it down to like 95K. So he wrote them out a check. Before he got home, they'd already cashed it!

Of course, he then later finds out that the leader of the group stole the money and didn't share it among his people  

Beaf:
We have laid out what we want, which is true federalism.

True federalism is probably strictly better than secession, yes.

Thank goodness we do not approach problems in the Boko Haram manner you are thinking about.
However, if all attempts at diplomacy fail, we would leave the sorry country. And dude, on that day, you will get on your knees and beg, cos there will be no smiling.

Eh, dunno about others, but I'm not going to beg. I'd much rather have access to international credit to build infrastructure than the NDs oil, if I had to choose between the two. The latter leads to a better society and economy anyway.
But of course, having both is better

fstrangest:
Why cant you just secede? What is stopping you?

No joke. If I were them, I'd secede in a second. From what Beaf says, it should be something they can do today.

$160 mil/day divided by 20 or 30 million is a lot better than the same amount divided by 150+ million  

They'd be better off if they secede. But this is one of those things that is easier said than done. . .

Beaf:
Where exactly will others get the money to negate the SS?

It depends, there are a variety of sources. Bank accounts of citizens, loans, existing Nigerian federal reserves could all be used to prosecute a war. Overall, I don't think finding cash would be too much of a problem.

Especially if oil piplines are finished off, while the supply is diverted?

So you'd be able to stop the pipelines and divert the supply into cash? So yes, if you could monetize the 2 million barrels produced a day, sure, life would be pretty good for you. But how will whoever buys it from you get out of the country?   After all, there is a navy to blockade and impound any such oil.

Also, as you guys have shown yourself, it is pretty easy to sabotage oil production, period

The SS can spend billions at short notice, and it can do that everyday.

This I doubt. What %age of the oil produced by Nigeria is a reasonable estimate of that lost to oil bunkering or money given to the militants by their governors. . . let's say 1%? 20K barrels a day is only $1.6 million. That can be easily matched by any ethnic group who decides to go to war.

The first week or so would be the most painful for the SS if war breaks out, but after that, it would be a crushing defeat for anyone with a relatively primitive army that foolishly attacks us.

Eh, the opposite would be true, imo. Time is not your friend. Time allows other ethnic groups to convert assets into equipment for prosecuting warfare. Time means more recruits, more training, whittling away at the slim head start you have.

If you follow the news carefully, you will also find that militants in the SS are quite conversant and comfortable with high tech warfare, regularly employing GPS, UAV's etc.

Eh, fine, you spend the money you get on weapons, others do not. But once we start buying weapons too, those advantages go away. . .

This is aside from the fact that we have the ready cash to employ the baddest mecenaries complete with their ammo from places like SA, Namibia and Angola; call that an angry standing army at a weeks notice.

Mercenaries are expensive and were pretty much useless in the Nigerian civil war. I don't see any reason for them to suddenly become useful in a hypothetical new war. I'd be very happy if my enemy spends valuable resources on expensive mercenaries to prosecute a war in Nigeria. Paying $200k/year to a mercenary. . . that same amount of money will likely get you 100 Nigerians

. . .This is aside from the fact that the US would cripple any unfortunate that touches their beloved SS (it took less than 24 hours for the FBI to land in Abuja and for the US President and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano to rush to GEJ's help).

The US doesn't like the militants, dude. I don't think they like the Delta either. Especially if that memo by the Shell woman is how the US thinks about things. My guess is that rather than supporting the militants, they'd supply weapons to help crush them. The US likes the status quo in Nigeria and overall probably isn't interested in seeing it changed. This is my guess, at least.

fstrangest:
That said, the SS has not, till today, produced a single smart person well known in Nigeria. How can a bunch of below average Nigerians

This I don't agree with. I don't think that there is that much intrinsic variation intelligence-wise between different Nigerian groups.

effectively fight a war with little or no equipment, not to talk about the dearth of human and military power evident in the SS

Well, they have pretty good equipment, RPGs, anti-aircraft, a primitive navy.

My own point is that it isn't as if other groups are stockpiling weapons seriously or preparing for warfare. So any headstart the ND has could be negated quite rapidly.

Beaf:
That is the same thing the Arabs thought about Israel, but you can ask about the 7 day war.

Why do Nigerian groups always want to compare themselves with badasses like Israel? First it was the Biafrans, now it is Beaf.

Yes, other Nigerian groups are like the hapless Arabs, and you are like plucky Israel  I'm quaking in my socks!

^-- Well said!

Also:

fstrangest:
You should know by now that the concept of right and wrong is not as clear cut. what may seem wrong today could be regarded as right tomorrow and vice versa.

This is another reason I'm not against gay rights. I do not want to be on the wrong side of history. I don't want my descendants reading about me in the history books and feeling ashamed of their bigoted ancestor, the way I'm sure some white people do when they read about their own slave-owning forebears. . .

lekside44:
why dont we go solar,nuclear? i can make a nuclear fission reactors and nuclear fusion reactors for nigeria. i can also design a MHD system.

We have plenty of natural gas and coal. Both are cheaper than solar. Nuclear might be cheaper in the short-term, but when taking into account disposal of nuclear waste, I'm not sure.

Really, Nigeria should have 24/7 power given the enormous amount of gas and coal this country has.

texazzpete:
Tunde Bakare was happy to stand idly by, doing nothing while card-carrying 'pastors' of the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria were torturing and maiming kids in Akwa Ibom all in the name of 'witchcraft'. Where's the moral standing to criticize another man for not doing well in his day job?

Think carefully and consider if Bakare is a policeman or other government agent that he should be the one preventing Akwa Ibom pastors from committing such acts. Clearly, he is not responsible for the actions of other religious leaders. Or is also responsible for some random Catholic priest in Brooklyn r.a.ping some innocent kids, as well? 

Otoh, GEJ is responsible for the security of Nigeria.

And what really is the alternative? Atiku? Ribadu?

Foolish reasoning.

Oya, please tell me what you would have done to handle this bombing spree if you were president of Nigeria.

Act on the forewarnings, since iirc there was information that the Jos bombings would occur before they happened?

Heck, even without forewarning, what type of moronic answer is this? If he cannot handle security in Nigeria, we should just fold our hands and say, "what could anyone have done?"

How about he resigns and lets someone else more fit do the job?

^--- Hitech:
http://www.hitechconstructioncompany.com/about.html

Seems to be owned by the Chagoury group. Sounds like an Arab name to me, probably Lebanese?

I don't see how Hitech is connected to Tinubu. Or does someone have evidence otherwise?

Anyway, I don't want the ACN to cede control of Kwara politics to a single family like the Sarakis. The Sarakis are not democrats but instead are feudalists. It might be necessary in the short term to ally with them, but in the long term they must be removed from political relevance if Kwara is to be a successful state. At least, imo.

violent:
I dey laugh oooo

How about we bribe them to confess? or perhaps beg them even?

The country's use of technology in investigation is soooo primitive, our leaders will rather "judiciously" spend 1 billion on waste bins, 7 billion building a VP's house or even 9 billion on anniversaries , when we could invest a fraction of that into surveillance, gps tracking, DNA & forensics, etc etc!. . .and some dolt will come running here screaming "don't blame Jonathan". .why not blame my granddad instead?

damn, a buncha people thinking with their a'rses, asking us to plead with criminals to confess to their crimes. . . listen to that!

+1000

Your sister is OK, but not anywhere near as hot as you are, imo. You guys both have very interesting eyes though. . .not quite asian-looking, but very distinct.

Your husband is a lucky dude 

[quote author=Inked_Nerd link=topic=577927.msg7447198#msg7447198 date=1293952746]
Hmmm, I don't really see the dudes comment as a compliment. . . In my opinion it seemed more like he was making an underhanded pass at her.
[/quote]Hrm. . .

Now my friend's boyfriend made a coy remark to a woman about how she is revealing and if he wasn't with a woman.  He would definitely take her.

So this is what Mrs Eve is saying he said. Now if the quote was, "Yo t.i.tties sittin right in that dress there, if I wasn't with my chick we could head back to the crib and f.u.ck."

Then I agree, definitely out of line. But very few guys will come out and say the above (even if they are thinking it in their heads). Most will say instead say something more innocuous that implies the above.

Mrs Eve, any chance you could supply us with the exact quote?

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=577456.msg7447302#msg7447302 date=1293955665]That legal stand is not going to work in Nigeria.can't you see the stigma against this thing ?[/quote]Bleh. This is why democracy imo is slightly overrated. If the majority believes slavery is OK, then slavery will happen in democracy. If the majority believes discriminating against n.iggers/Jehovah's Witnesses/Mormons/etc is OK, then it will happen. If the majority believes gays shouldn't have any rights, then no rights for gays. If the majority believes taking away the God-given resources of the Niger Delta away from them is OK, then nothing for the Delta.

Sometimes, what the majority wants is simply wrong and inconsistent with basic fairness.

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=577456.msg7447196#msg7447196 date=1293952692]what you guys have not been able to argue is the ''religion and moral codes'' for homosexuality.it's the bane of the opposition to same sex marriage not only in Nigeria or Africa but in the world generally.
As much as I know,the stigma against against homosexuality in Nigeria cannot be reversed even if the law permits it.look at prostitution and HIV sage,you'd still find many people stigmatizing against HIV patients simply because people know their status and that have made other people to continue to hide their status.

To cut the story short,it takes more than  scientific theories to convince people and achieve a point for homosexuality.[/quote]I'm not going to argue on a religious basis that homosexuality is OK. And indeed, I do not have to, since I assume we all want separation of religion and government.

All I'm arguing is for a legal basis for it, not a Christian/Muslim/Hindu/whatever one.

EDIT: fix

@Naijagal12: Congrats! I guess by one pack, you mean a beer keg But again, congrats! Now my question for you is, do you have a younger sister?