₦airaland Forum

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=577456.msg7447057#msg7447057 date=1293948276]Because you've not been able to convince them on why marriage between two same sex adults is a sane thing to do.[/quote]Why should anyone have to be convinced? Two consenting adults can do anything they like, so long as it doesn't harm anyone else, imo. Live and let live. . .

honestly,you will have to convince a lot of people especially on moral and religion justification to make them change their minds on pervs who would end up adopting children.

Gays = Pervs = shouldn't adopt children? If I were an orphan, I'd much rather be adopted by wealthy, educated gays than poor, uneducated straight folk. After all, I'd be much more likely to have a high quality of life and high standard of living with the former family than the latter. . .

Why are homos cutting short the continuity process of existence ?

Justify this statement. And even if you are able to prove it, why is anyone obliged to assist the "continuity process of existence"?

I've never really been one to say, "Oh sh1t, this girl is from Group X, lemme go holla at her!"

It is more like I see a pretty girl, then later on down the line find out she is from wherever

Hotness of a woman is more important than ethnicity, nationality, etc to me.

Hard to judge w/o knowing the context, what type of people they are, etc. If it was like a serious comment, then probably bad. But he could just have easily just been joking or only half-serious. And if he is half-serious and his GF is also around, then it isn't at all disrespectful, is it? Especially if she has a playful nature too.

So really depends on the couple.

To me though, this is the type of thing you avoid as a guy. It can lead to nowhere but trouble. I generally don't give other women compliments when I'm with a girl just to avoid wahala. . .

Thanks for bumping this thread, @Naijagal12 is hot

42K Naira.

If interested, reach me at 07084391263, or send an email at zzz

Advert was crossposted with pictures at nairalist.com here: (http://www.nairalist.com/abuja/forsale/1320/brand-new-ipod-touch-8gb)

That sucks

So which states is GEJ then likely to win? SE, SS, I guess parts of the middle belt? Doesn't sound like enough for a presidency, does it?

So in other words, another state that GEJ and the PDP will lose in the 2011 presidential elections?

Would be nice if Muslim countries could behave as well to religious minorities as Christian ones do

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=576642.msg7441885#msg7441885 date=1293830992]@eku_bear, I believe that Fashola strongly disagrees with the LCC's estimate you posted above. To be fair to yourself, please try to find Fashola's estimates and you may discover that, the numbers you posted are grossly overstated.[/quote]If you happen to have more specific numbers, please post them (or a link). A bit easier than me googling fruitlessly for them, don't you think?

You also wrote that they are spending $6.7 million per kilometer!!!  Does that bother you at all? Is the road plated in diamonds?? In places like the USA and Germany, the cost of such roads is $1.5 million cost per mile, not kilometer

Absolutely no way it is possible to get that latter price in an urban area like Lagos:
http://www.railstotrails.org/resources/documents/whatwedo/policy/07-29-2008%20Generic%20Response%20to%20Cost%20per%20Lane%20Mile%20for%20widening%20and%20new%20construction.pdf
ftp://ftp.dot.state.fl.us/LTS/CO/Estimates/CPM/summary.pdf

The $6.7 mil per km might be too high, but the $1.5 mil per mile ($940k per kilometer) is way too low. Might be able to do that in Ekiti State, but no chance of getting it done that cheaply in Lagos.

The following is a very rough attempt to estimate the profitability of the road.
--------------------
Alright, so it appears they are spending roughly 50 billion Naira to complete the road, so $330 million ($6.7 million per kilometer.)

For me, if I'm investing in a 3rd world country like Nigeria from abroad, I'd want 20-30% ROI, minimum (let's use 20% for now.) So they'd need to generate $66 million after expenses. Estimate road maintenance, depreciation, various other expenses etc at say $10 million/year or so? So they need to rake in $76 million/year to be worthwhile, roughly $208K/day.

Hard to aggregate their cost schedule over all the different classes of vehicles and of course the distribution of vehicles that ply the road, but it seems reasonable to guess that the saloon cars will dominate the traffic. So let's say N120 per car at each toll. Given 3 tolls, this is N360, or $2.40. Taking into the 10% discount offered for the eTag, drops down average money LCC earns per car to $2.16.

So they'd need 97K vehicles per day plying the road in order to hit this 20% ROI figure. Their estimate seems to be that currently 85K vehicles ply the road every day (http://www.lcc.com.ng/_Docs/LekkiTollRoadUserGuidev1May2010f7b74c93-c011-4cb8-ab81-e2d0526b7b9d.pdf).

Using the numbers I sourced and guessed at above, they wouldn't hit this 20% figure. But perhaps my guessed numbers are off in some way; those with more expertise should chime in. It is also very possible that over the next 30 years with the natural population growth of Lagos, the population that plies the road will grow substantially, and thus the road will be more profitable, so that is something that also needs to be taken into account.

All in all though, I'm not necessarily sure that this will be a huge money-making scheme. The profits will be good, but not insane.

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=576642.msg7441518#msg7441518 date=1293826846]Don't be s.illy! The profit margins on these projects are enough to make them return for more, over and over and over again.  Go and ask Halliburton and others.[/quote]How do you know this? What is the profit margin on the project? I am 95% sure that it is lower than the enormous interest rates Nigerian banks charge.

How much profit would be acceptable to you?

Perhaps we should estimate how much revenue they'll be bringing in from the toll road each year versus the capital invested.

fstrangest:
Back to your senseless question

Do you know what Sango calls his followers?

He calls them 'Iyawo mi" and most of them appear as drag queens and transvestite; Hence, we can  categorize  male followers of Sango being refereed to as 'iyawo mi' as the earliest recorded evidence of homosexuality in Yoruba.

This, I did not know. Pretty interesting.

[quote author=isale_gan2 link=topic=577456.msg7441473#msg7441473 date=1293826350]All right.  I respect your opinion.  Not really.   [/quote]Fair enough. I'm sure that I'm in the minority with this opinion. Most of my family disagrees with my perspective, for example.

hahahaha.  I was gonna ask why you care if she's fat or thin before you'll have a debate with her.  That'll mean we (female posters) will be required to submit our picture before you'll deign to respond to us. Count me out!  

Lol!

[quote author=isale_gan2 link=topic=577456.msg7441309#msg7441309 date=1293824194]I know you're just kidding.  At least I hope so.     Congratulations on winning politics sextion poster 2010.  Dunno why the name change.  Happy new year in advance![/quote]I'm half-serious. Like, homosexuals don't negatively affect my life in any way. Why should I be so vehemently opposed to something that doesn't have any impact on my life?
I understand that for a lot of people, the "ick" factor is important. But I'm also not into obese girls (for example) and find them icky. Does that mean nobody should be permitted to date obese girls?  
I'm pretty live-and-let live about life, overall. I will only oppose you and your lifestyle if it:
a) Reduces my own quality of life
b) Violates fundamental human rights

Homosexuality doesn't do either of those things, so I'm not much concerned about it.

Thanks for the congrats. Name-change was due to me being locked out of the other account after an email address change (I suspect Seun's forum system is slightly buggy. . .) Happy new year to you too!

EDIT: typos

cold:
A lot of peeps on here claiming they could care less whether a guy is gay or straight will not stand to hear their kids say 'daddy i'm gay'.That wld be the day

Eh,  if my future son turns out to be gay, I'll be pissed. But he still my son, and I won't stop loving him.

Or what should I do, kill my son because he is gay?  

Homosexuality doesn't affect the life of heterosexuals in any real way.

If anything, more gay dudes = less competition for beautiful women! 

mbulela:
This is just not an argument about the suitability of tolls or the appropriateness of same at this point in time on that road, the matter is complicated by the perception that LCC is owned by the BAT.While arguing for or against the toll and deciding on the appropriate time to begin charging it, the issue of LCC ownership need to be addressed at the same time.
Some people have no problems with toll charges on that road but are vehemently against it on account of the fact that it is akin to 2nd slavery by BAT.
Imagine paying tithe to Tinubu everyday for 30 years?

What evidence is there that Tinubu owns any part of LCC? Anyone here with such evidence should present it.

jacobs123:
No one has told us of an existing road anywhere in the world being expanded with 1 lane on each side for N50 billion with 3 tolls in a 23 Km expansion and yet you commence tolling after completing 6 Km only.

OK, so it cost 50 billion to do. How do you suggest the money being spent be recovered?

jacobs123:
The Lekki-Epe road is basically in a residential area and within 1 LCDA where every infrastructure is provided by private citizens.

Alright, mostly residential, yes? So the property owners there are benefiting tremendously from the increased property values. How come I do not hear any mention of this? So in essense, you want your property value improved, the road near your home improved, but don't want to pay for it, at all?

This is the reality of the Lekki-Epe way which we will resist! It is not a matter of how much toll I'm to pay but the injustice behind it all! Successive governments have left this area undeveloped for a long time and the next thing LASG wants to do is to profiteer from us. LASG obviously sees this area as the cashcow but must you kill the Chicken that lays the golden egg?  The most contribution LASG tax IGR is obviously from Eti-osa!

Justify this statement about cash cow. Estimate how much money will be made from the road when it is completed, and compare that to the cost of borrowing money from a Nigerian bank and servicing the 22%ish interest rate they charge. I am 95% sure that the approach LASG is taking is much cheaper than using a Nigerian bank.

No to Suspension, We want Cancellation! NO TOLLING, NO FENCING!!!

Bullsh1t. So who the F is supposed to pay for this? I want a brand new Hummer for free too. But of course good things cost money, and money doesn't grow on trees.

@Beaf: If he is Puerto Rican, that doesn't mean he isn't black too. Carmelo Anthony and Al Horford for example are both (Melo is Puerto Rican, Horford I think is from the Dominican Republic.) Being Hispanic and black aren't contradictory. Just because most Hispanics are non-black doesn't mean all are.

I doubt he is Mexican or a white Argentinian or something commenting here in Nairaland 

debosky:
^^ You've forgotten to mention that toll roads are new roads, not refurbishments of existing highways.

Why? Why can't I charge a toll if I'm investing several billions of dollars to refurbish a road? Why is this a problem?

I agree taxes cannot build infrastructure, but why can't other financing means be sought? Why should tolls be the only option pursued? Why not seek long term development bonds instead?

And who is going to buy such bonds? Who on earth is going to give you a reasonable interest rate, given that Nigerian banks charge some insane rate (22%) to loan out money? So your suggestion is that the gov't should take out a large loan and build the road themselves, at some very high interest rate? And how do they then service the loan? Through increased taxation of the broader Lagos population, I suppose?

For me, I'd much rather use cheap credit from South Africa and Australia than expensive Nigerian credit.

There is a clear issue in Nigeria - people want to reap where they did not sow. People would rather take over existing assets and try to make a quick buck instead of going out and developing their own assets.

It is a 30 year concession. They'll operate the road, maintain it, and deliver it to Lagos State at the end of that 30 years in mint condition. Maintainance over the next 30 years will cost additional monies. I highly doubt this is some extremely lucrative opportunity for the investors.

Tolling is a valid medium, but only if the toll collector is doing so after creating a utility that previously did not exist. To simply jump on an existing asset and begin to charge people for it, especially when the improvement desired has not manifested is certainly criminal.

They are only tolling for the stretch of road they've improved, yes? So you believe that the crap road that existed beforehand and the current one they are building are roughly equivalent in value? 

I took the Lokoja-Abuja "highway" on my way from Ekiti to Abuja. This "highway" is only a little wider than the country road near my parent's house in a suburb of Houston.

Nigerians, we need to wake up and recognize that the infrastructure in this country by and large is terrible. If we want to fix it and get it up to standard, radical measures will be required.

If someone can propose a superior mechanism for funding infrastructure in Nigeria, I am all ears. But so far all I've heard are complaints, but no solutions.

Naw, OPC is taking exactly the right approach, imo.

Terrorism cannot be effective in the SW unless the terrorists win the hearts and minds of some fraction of Muslim Yoruba.

OPC has declared a priori that radical religious movements like Boko Haram are forbidden in Yorubaland (and presumably especially amongst Muslim Yoruba). If they actively resist such radicalization by "strongly discouraging" any such radical preachers, then you prevent radicalization and reduce the likelihood of terrorism. And you can use your own imagination to guess what "strongly discouraging" might entail

Long story short, Al Queda/Boko Haram/etc have zero chance against OPC in Yorubaland even with whatever expertise they have unless they can get a toehold. And OPC is going to work very hard to ensure that this doesn't happen.

I applaud their foresight and vigilance.

Probably the refineries aren't producing enough to satisfy domestic consumption.

Why are people complaining of multiple taxation? In the US, there is:

1) pay federal income tax
2) state income tax
3) and in some municipalities city income tax
4) property tax (on homes)
5) Sales tax
6) Tolls if you want to take a fast road rather than driving the long way

And this is just off the top of my head, there are bound to be more that I'm not aware of.

That is just the way life is, folks.

Pifa:
eku_bear,

I asked earlier how long you’ve been in California because I saw California in your location. If you’ve been in California for long, you would know that the toll roads in California were all proposed to solve a problem: either to ease congestion or to shorten a trip. A good example is SR73 (it bypasses the congestion around I-405 and I-5 in Irvine, and lands you south of San Juan Capistrano on I-5 going toward San Diego).

I've lived here for under 5 years. Unfortunately I do not know much about the history of toll roads in California. Or that much about SoCal, to be quite frank (I'm in NorCal).

But from the map you posted, I see no problem that the toll way is solving. It doesn’t seem to bypass any area or shorten the distance between the extreme points on the map. If the areas where toll is collected had been a devilishly congested area, and the toll road took the path of the alternate route to bypass it, then I could see the benefit the toll road would bring to the community. But in this case, it seems the tolling was designed simply to remunerate the concessionaire for resurfacing and upgrading a stretch of the expressway.

But even if you think the work the LCC is doing is minor/trivial, it still costs a lot of money to do. Doesn't this suggest a right to be compensated in some way for such a large financial commitment?

Pifa:
Diversion for eku_bear only

You’re very fortunate to have come to California for schooling. California has the highest collection of best universities the world has to offer. I am a Stanford grad and I also did my post-grad there. My wife is a graduate of Stanford Law and our oldest became a freshman at Stanford this fall. I wouldn't trade California for any other state in the union. I’ve been here since I was ten (quite over three decades, actually). My sister lives here, and so does my mother, who is British by birth.

I am sorry you feel the way you do about California. But what you call “political unstable” is what we call political activism and engagement. As for our fiscal problems, you have to consider that California is the 8th largest economy in the world with about $1.87 trillion GDP. So, a budget shortfall of about $26b in a near-$2-trillion economy has to be taken in context. The state has its problems, just like many other states in the union that are struggling financially in these difficult times.

At any rate, you have to promise me you’ll do one activity before you leave California: take a trip down the whole length of the Pacific Coast Highway (it’s more enjoyable, if you ride a motorcycle). PCH runs through the most scenic beaches, the most expensive real estate market and the most spectacular geography in the US.

Yep, I'll definitely try to explore the state more when I have free time. This summer would be a good chance for me to go roadtripping. And yes, I acknowledge that California has it appeals, but I still don't like how democracy is done here. For example, imo it degenerates too much into mob rule. But I guess that is a discussion for another thread.

beknown:
Get a job first before you go to Nigeria. Check the following website:

http://www.careersinafrica.com/summits/london

That summit seems pretty sweet.

Probably the best way for Fashola to handle this is to just slash the listed rates to some fraction of the current one, then pay for the difference between what LCC wants to charge and the listed rates through increased taxes on the broader Lagos citizenry.

People will think that a great victory has been won and that the "evils of capitalism" have been defeated, when instead the end result will be that those who benefit heavily from the road  (e.g., guys who drive on it a lot, those whose property prices have increased as a result, etc.) will receive a massive subsidy from those who have absolutely nothing to do with it 

Pretty annoying, but I guess you have to bow down to political realities. . .

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=576642.msg7437099#msg7437099 date=1293757436]Dapo, I also passed through and saw the traffic and the state of the so called "alternate routes". That was not a good alternative.[/quote]The situation will likely change once the main road is complete, yes? Traffic should be alleviated at the alternate routes somewhat, perhaps substantially.

Lagos is not Texas. While this new road might look like a Sam Houston Tollway, the alternate route they have on LCC's website and the one I saw on ground is not exactly TX Beltway 8 (sorry about the Texas references I'm assuming you live there from something you posted earlier)

Well, Houston and Lagos are incomparable because Houston has enormous amounts of infrastructure already up. Highway 6, US 59, 45, 610 loop, etc. Lagos is nowhere near those levels. And will never get to those levels unless we bring in substantial amounts of foreign capital.

And yes, I'm pretty familiar with Houston, my folks live in a suburb of it.

I will wait for those who currently use the alternate road to post current images and post their  experiences before I update my judgement. I confess I don't now what the current state is but calling what I saw in June a viable alternative is sad and disingenuous.

Fair enough.

Dapo, You really need a trip to Nigeria as soon as you can. (I'm assuming you've not been there in a while)

I actually just arrived from Nigeria a few hours ago. Had a two week Christmas vacation there. I was in Ekiti for most of my time there, but spent some time in Abuja and Lagos.

;d ;d ;d

^-- I mean, the cost of operating the road is what it is, right? So if they charge N120 but it costs LCC 110 per car, then it isn't even worth their while. I highly doubt they are charging 120 for something that costs like 15 or 20. N45 would probably lead to them losing money. Unless of course the Lagos State Govt wants to subsidize the difference between LCCs fair price and the true cost.

And I'm not at all a fan of subsidies for something like this. . .

@Pifa: I'm not sure that the California model is the one to copy, at least as far as government goes. The state is politically unstable and fiscally unsound. I'm not much interested in staying here after I finish school.

Can someone explain to me how exactly the alternate route is infeasible? It looks to me as if you can avoid paying the toll by exiting before you reach the toll @ Admiralty Circle Plaza.

Is Oniru Market Road blocked somehow, or both of the two routes leading to it?

@Pifa: 4.5 years now.