₦airaland Forum

sinizia:
I disagree. It's an unproven fact, your words in emboldened. Most things are 100% uncertain in football.

Going by your words above, why didn't Shevchenko scored like he did at Ac Milan for Chelshit?

Why didn't Toress score like he did at Loserfool for Chelshit?

That Murray fella might come to United and be like Keane was for Loserfool. Nothing is certain.

It is an established way of analysing it here. Coogar used it always, and no one (including me) ever disputed it. It is fact that when comparisons are made as at given date, you assume the figures to be your working guide until the situation changes.

If your goals per minutes is better, you are the better scorer. And it is assumed you are more likely to score.

sinizia:
How can you type this and still post it with a straight face? Because Murray scored while his heat map was in the half line means against any team a striker MUST score while his team is defending all through?

Please, how on earth did you expect Lukaku to score in our match against Loserfool? If you watched the match, where did Ukaku see a chance to wreck havoc?

Did you expect Ukaku who's in the midfield defending as Loserfool battered us to dribble like Messi from the midfield and score?

In match that we parked trailer, you expected Ukaku to perform miracle? A striker has more chances of scoring in an attacking line-up. Stop using Murray to judge every striker.

That Toress scored against Barca while Chelshit were defending for their lives doesn't mean that he might score that chance in another match.

Zlatan had only one chance against Loserfool last year at their turf and missed it. How will you expect Zlatan to score when United defended all through and could only provide one good chance by Pogba? How many strikers will always convert every chances? Even if Zlatan had scored that chance, on other day, he may miss it. No striker will be fruitful playing like we did against Loserfool. He's not a ghost and can't dribble his way from the midfield like he's invisible.

Joselu played against Liverpool at half line as lead striker, and scored. Newcastle 1 Liverpool 1

Scott played against Liverpool at half line as lead striker against Liverpool and scored. I think that match also ended 1-1

Murray played against us at Old Trafford at half line and scored.

But people say Lukaku didn’t score because he played at half line against Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham. When has playing at half line being a license not to score?

elrony:
Uncle intelligentsia, tell us how "Murray beats Lukaku hands down".

Lukaku in EPL:
15 games
8 goals
4 assists
16 Chances created
12 Key passes


Murray in EPL
13 games
5 goals
0 Assists
3 chances created
3 key passes


Please don't bring your Tuwo Chinkafa punditry here, stay on the discourse (I'm allergic to pounded Rice)

PS: " Stats are Facts" (in your own words).

I don't expect a light weight like you to understand that number of matches played does not translate into number of minutes played. For instance Anthony Martial has played 14 league matches for us, but only total 579 minutes on the field which is 6 matches cumulatively.

Secondly, I never brought Assist into my arguments. And I never said Murray had more assists than Lukaku. I said in terms of goals per minutes, Murray is better. Assists sometimes depend on the quality of team mates. Lukaku has Martial, Rashford, Pogba, Mata, Mikitaryan etc

Lukaku = 168.8 minutes per goal

Murray = 162.2 minutes per goal.

eph12:
I just decided not to drag this further but it's like it's dragging itself. At a point Ihenacho had a better goal/minute ratio for city but nobody can claim he is/was better than Aguero. Lukaku needs to improve and so does the team.

The initial argument here was that Lukaku was not doing anything for the team and should be benched for lord Ibra lol. When we compared his number of goals with other strikers, he wasn't doing bad. Assists too dey kampe but he isn't doing anything. We score 4 goals but they want us to believe we could have played a short one and still get same result. Na so. There's a Firmino which is the striker for Liverpool but they want to compare Lukaku with Salah like we just knowing that dribbling is not his strong points. His key pass percentage is as high as other strikers but no he is not doing anything. Our attack have been very horrible but Lukaku is the cause. The goal he scored against CSKA was another awoof like others. It's well o.

I don't expect him to have a good game against City unless others step up so begin to write the epistles down o

1. Aguero missed more Clear cut chances than Iheanacho. But we know Aguero is the better player and striker. Same way, Aguero may have missed more Clear cut chances than Lukaku, but Aguero is still the better player and striker.

2. On the initial argument. I never for once said Lukaku should be benched. I don't know where or when that argument took place. All I said it that he was not doing other things well to help the team (like hold up play), even goals scoring aside.

3. No matter what you say, a striker that starts counting defensive contribution, high pass accuracy in his own half as his best qualities, is close to ruin. I didn't even see the defensive contribution sef.

Someone with low pass accuracy in opposition half is a weak link to his co-attacking team mates.

elrony:
Very simple something, with oga Elampiro the little one you learn from him he will now use spam epistles to delete from your retentive memory

Others dey turn Amala buh Baba dey pound Tuwo Chinkafa

Majority doesn't mean truth.

Lukaku is a great striker and has done what others didn't do at 24. Fact

He started the season well. Fact.

I thought Lukaku would by now have at least 12 goals. Truth

But sometimes goals don't go as plan. Truth.

Then so of us even saw some things wrong with his game. Truth

Some of you other guys say, Lukaku is a sacred cow, no one says any negative about him. Argument began.

In the arguments facts have come to the fore. No stats is going well for Lukaku. Fact.

PietroRico:
Stats in the hands of elampiro na real wahala

Stats are facts.

If those stats favoured Lukaku, you guys would have applauded.

They said Lukaku is not doing badly in terms of goals. I brought stats to show he is far behind other strikers who have less minutes, like Kane.

Then they said he is doing well compared to many others. I brought stats on goals per 90 minutes. Lukaku is number 30

They said because he played at half line, I brought stats about smaller strikers who play at half against big teams and score.

They shifted to he defence. I wonder when defence has been the duty of a striker. Again, a rough look at matches show he doesn’t depend, except clearances which even Ibrahimovic did better for us last season.

Lastly, it has been revealed that Lukaku can only have high pass accuracy in his own half when compared to other strikers. Any wonder the likes of Mkhitaryan have been poor? Their front man cannot play fluently with them.

raumdeuter:
Its easier to score when your team is attacking and you are inside the box, that is why City has the highest number of goals in the league

In the opponent box, if 2 people are on Ageuro, 2 people on Jesus, 2 people on STerling, 2 people on Sane, 2 people on SIlva, is it that the opponent is playing with 20 players

It is not disputable. But Lukaku (in recent form) has refused to deliver when we attack against small teams, and when we depend against big teams.

raumdeuter:
You havent done what I asked,

Bring any top striker of a big club and lets compare him to Lukaku
Take a game this striker has played and lukaku has also played e.g Say Aguero has played Team A away and Lukaku has played Team A away
Let us compare the heat maps and let the people on here decide

You see the part in bold, Going to pick one random Brighton or Burnley striker wont cut it, Bring a striker from a top team and a gem where he has played the same opposition in the same location like Lukaku

What I have done so far is to show you that playing at half line against a better opposition while your team play defensive, does not prevent goal scoring.

If strikers of smaller teams can do with, why should it be an excuse for Lukaku.

Take Kane for instance, let Tottenham park the bus against Madrid, he will still score.

elrony:
Epa you don dey yan like who need deliverance o

So Glenn Murray with 5 goals is now better than Lukaku with more goals n assists? It is finished

I swear down, you're just vulcanizing your "I am right" complex.

Goals are measured per minutes.


This is why some of you no know ball. Common sense says if Murray played the same number matches (game time) as Lukaku, he wood score more.

Murray also scored in a big game playing at half line. But Lukaku, na so so story.

lekkie073:
u r a joke of an analyst... So d 'B' alone is enuf for u to mistake Burnley for Brighton.

When you are multitasking, you could make mistakes in your social media posts. I posted those stuff in a hurry, but those who knew the players knew the club they represent.

elrony:
Elampiro be manufacturing criterion in his head

Look at the stat he posted vs Lukaku If I wanted to argue I'll use that to bury him in my own terms

You cannot.

Caveatemptor:
Have United played against Burnley this season?

lekkie073:
now elampiro is talking rubbish all in a bid to make sense.

Who else has watched manutd vs Burnley where lukaku featured dis season.

Lukaku has played against Glenn Murray of Brighton.

I meant Brighton. Those who knew football would understand.

elrony:
How many goals and assists does Murray have, and when did Lukaku play against Burnley inna United shirt?

No epistles please.

5 goals in 814 minutes beat Lukaku hands down

raumdeuter:
For Lukakus defensive responsibilities
Bring any top striker of a big club and lets compare him to Lukaku
Take a game this striker has played and lukaku has also played e.g Say Aguero has played Team A away and Lukaku has played Team A away
Let us compare the heat maps and let the people on here decide

Kane and other top club strikers plays in a more offensive setup and have less defensive responsibilities than Lukaku

dont know about what Van persie or Man utd did 4 or 5 seasons ago, But was Mourinho the coach of Van persie? Everyone knows Mourinhos demands of a striker is different from other coaches say Ferguson or Guardiola

So will you bring the similar games played this season maybe like 5 and lets compare Lukaku to other strikers to show you the heatmaps

We will go there may be thus night. I cannot see his defensive duties from stats, except clearances from set plays.

Manchester United vs Newcastle

Venue = Old Trafford

Lukaku played 90 mins and scored one 1 goal, 65% pass accuracy in opposition's half

Dwight played 74 mins and scored 1 goal, 85% pass accuracy in opposition's half.

HEAT MAP
Dwight hardly got the ball to use, and he played at half line away at Old Trafford. Yet he did not complain, he delivered a goal.

raumdeuter:
They probably mean he isnt scoring as much, Let them bring Aguero Lacazette Morata Jesus Kane to be playing defence wings and everywhere else but the box and lets see how it will work out

It is very hard for a striker to score when team park the bus against you, because two defenders take care of the striker. Also look at it from that angle, that a player like Aguero is always playing against a 'parked bus'

raumdeuter:
For Lukakus defensive responsibilities
Bring any top striker of a big club and lets compare him to Lukaku
Take a game this striker has played and lukaku has also played e.g Say Aguero has played Team A away and Lukaku has played Team A away
Let us compare the heat maps and let the people on here decide

Kane and other top club strikers plays in a more offensive setup and have less defensive responsibilities than Lukaku

dont know about what Van persie or Man utd did 4 or 5 seasons ago, But was Mourinho the coach of Van persie? Everyone knows Mourinhos demands of a striker is different from other coaches say Ferguson or Guardiola

So will you bring the similar games played this season maybe like 5 and lets compare Lukaku to other strikers to show you the heatmaps

Look at where Lukaku played against Brighton vs Brighton striker, Murray. Why did Lukaku not score despite playing in the box?

Look at their pass accuracy sef. Murray has better pass accuracy in opposition's half- where it matters most. Lukaku has high pass accuracy when playing in his own half.

Lastly, Murray is currently outscoring Lukaku in goals per 90 minutes.

raumdeuter:
Bring any similar opposition that Aguero Lacazette Morata Jesus and Lukaku has played whether they scored or not and lets compare their heat maps
Most game Man City will sit down in the opponents half and Aguero and will barely leave the opponent box, Same thing with Chelsea you wil see Hazard and Morata have almost no defensive responsibility but Lukku is expected to defend, chase down attackers and do many other jobs other strikers are not doing

Is it not the same team Mikitaryan, Rashford, Mata are playing

If we take away Agueros 3 penalties how many goals will he have?

My own point is that Lukaku lack of goals can be traced to the tactical setup which plays him far away from the box unlike other strikers

The truth is, I am not aware Lukaku has defensive responsibilities. He doesn't.

Those days, Van Persie joined the defence to run down the time when we needed to hold a slim win. Also, in 2012/2013 we deployed defensive approach to our matches against City Liverpool and Chelsea. Van Persie and Rooney were able to give good account of themselves in overall play and still scored goals. For instance in our 3-2 win over City in 2012, we played Van Persie at half line, yet he scored the winning goal after Rooney two earlier goals were cancelled out.

Did you see the number of players doing better than Lukaku in goals per 90 minutes. Why concentrate on Aguero? Why not pick Kane or Martial?

If you played Salah in this Mourinho's team, he would score goals, just as Martial is doing. Just watch Liverpool and see Salah in right back marking opponents, within seconds he is in midfield receiving a pass and driving the ball down to the box to cause confusion to opposing defence.

Watch Kane, you would see technical build up play and final positioning to score. Aguero can beat men, and he causes problem whenever and wherever he has the ball.

raumdeuter:
Do other strikers have the responsibility of Lukaku?

I showed you the heat map of 3 strikers all against the same opponent away you can clearly see which part of the field Lukaku was playing most of the time

If you bring Aguero Lacazette Jesus Morata to Man Utd and the coach tells them to join in the left back to chase opponent play to the wings or start chasing defenders they will also not score as much

Is Lukaku missing more chances than other striker?
How many attackers in Man utd are doing well currently

I did not see the other strikers score in the heat map you brought. Only 1 goal.

Goals are scarce in big matches whether you play far from goal or close to it. Messi played in the box against Chelsea and didn't score in 180 minutes. Torres played at half line for a few minutes and scored. Even Drogba

Is it not the same team Martial, Lingard and Fellaini play? How come they do better even when they play behind Lukaku?

There are 29 players ahead of Lukaku, some from bottom teams that park the bus week in week out. United only park the bus against top 6.

The other day, Lukaku took a penalty and missed. But you dey complain say Aguero dey score penalty. Even on that list many many of them don't take penalty.

I end my case. But I hope Lukaku turns it around.

raumdeuter:
Do you have another problem with Lukaku that you havent said because all your stats are not agreeing that Lukaku has a problem thats peculiar to him

It's a lie. Stats prove me right

These are goals per 90 minutes for EPL players with over 500 minutes of football this season

Salah 1 goal per 90 minutes
Aguero 0.9
Martial 0.9
Jesus 0.9
Sterling 0.9
Morata 0.7
Kane 0.7
Lacazette 0.7
Rooney 0.6
Hazard 0.6
Mane 0.6
Okazaki 0.6
Same 0.6
Murray 0.6
Courtinho 0.6

Lukaku 0.5


Dayo, will you now humbly withdraw your words accusing me of having an agenda against Lukaku?

raumdeuter:
You havent answered me, How many Man Utd attackers are having a good run in the past 2 months

If all your attackers are poor all of a sudden, shouldnt that tell you its more than an individual issue rather a systemic issue

I have shown you Lukaku scores as much as other top strikers in the league like Morata Aguero Lacazette and Jesus

I have shown you that Lukaku misses chances at the same rate as Aguero Lacazete Morata

I have shown you Lukaku is having a dry run in the league just like other Man Utd attackers

There is nothing going on with Lukaku that is different from other strikers in the league or other attackers in the club

Do you have another problem with Lukaku that you havent said because all your stats are not agreeing that Lukaku has a problem thats peculiar to him

Lukaku's goal per minutes is below the other top scorers in the league. How did you reach your conclusion?

Again, in the United team, the burden of scoring is on Lukaku, otherwise we should have settled for Ibrahimovic or Rashford. We didn’t buy Lukaku to score same goals as Ibrahimovic. We are thinking of 25-30 goals.

In 2012/2013 When Van Persie, league second top scorer at the time was going 7 matches without goals, the fans started getting worried.

raumdeuter:
Since September 9, almost 3 months now, Rashford has scored 1 league goal

How many has Mata, Mikitaryan also scored since those times?

Of all Man utd attackers, martial is the only attacker having any decent scoring record

Why are all Man Utds attackers out of form in scoring suddenly, and you dont think this is a problem with the tactical setup

Look at these two screenshots closely, you will understand one or two things. Our wide men don't score many. They are even trying this season.

patrickmuf:
Elampiro, your argument that Martial, Young and others have been amongst the goals and not Lukaku is spot on, however, I have seen improvements in Lukaku's overall game play and he must be doing something well for others around him to be thriving. You can't compare how well others are doing with Lukaku with when Zlatan led the line, he scored more but he didn't press from the front quite as much.

Not advocating for dropping Lukaku for anyone, not even Ibrahimovic.

The guys who started the argument against us simply created two extremes. They think themselves to be Lukaku lovers and us as Lukaku haters.

Why can't they understand the fact that we saw something and said it sincerely. It doesn't make us Arsenal fans or City fans or Chelsea fans. May be I will get my phone on my palm during matches, when Lukaku does those things I am talking about, I immediately mention it. Then people will understand.

eph12:
Talking about your other points will just see us move in circles. I think we are passed that already. You just stating what you have stated before. I am more interested in this awoof 1 goal you are talking about. Which one is the awoof goal?

Lukaku is a bad striker but he has missed same amount of big chances as other strikers.

Who is talking in circles now? You said mentioned this a million times. Have you ever heard of any award for strikers who missed the least big chances? It is the striker who scores the most goals and then another award for best player. Lukaku is doing poorly here.

eph12:
. The Auba you were asking for has missed 17 and we haven't even gone half of the season. Where will he get that number of big chances to miss at United? The difference between his goals and others is just 1-4. Aguero or whoever it is has played much lesser minutes but has missed same number of big chances, what does this tell you?

Aubameyang has one goal in every match. Lukaku is a poor Aubameyang. Last season Aubameyang scored 34 league goals. No one gives trophies for big chances missed. Compare Lukaku to Kane who play in same league and see. Stop going to Bundesliga. Aubameyang is the fastest player in the world, he might have used his pace to create one vs one several times and miss some. It is different from one who waits for a pass just to tap in and miss.

eph12:
He has a better shot accuracy than every other striker except Salah. His 68% take on success is higher than Rashford, Martial, Aguero, Morata, Salah. Don't take my word for it, check squawka. See he went through a rough patch in front of goals, big deal? Who hasn't? But when you try to downplay his role in the team its bad bro

What is short accuracy if it doesn't score? This man, you don confuse like Lukaku.

68% take on. Ajigbijigbijigbi. If you dribble 1 time in 10 matches in a comfortable take on, you will get 100%. Unlike Martial and Rashford who force the take on every time they get the ball. You would soon tell me that Lukaku has a better take on accuracy than Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo, Hazard.

Please try to understand what stats are about. Not just you see stats and you cannot interprete. If DeGea beats a striker once a season, he would have 100% take on that season and be the best in accuracy. Number of successful dribbling matters, not the accuracy. Because someone who ensures that it is convenient to dribble before he does so, will get the highest drimbling accuracy.

raumdeuter:
Aguero has played 5 league games started all of them and has no goal from open play

If Lukaku was getting to play penalties too like Aguero, he would have scored

Has Lukaku been able to force or win a penalty?

Aguero usually get substituted at 60+ mins, or when they seal their match. If he is allowed to play till the end he could have scored. Again Lukaku has played almost double the matches Aguero played. Nothing to show.

codedguy1:
Guy na wa ooo you no dey tire?

FYI, I am one of those that criticized Lukaku especially in the Assanal game but I think he did well in the last game both in the fact that he scored and his link up play was good. so your criticism in his last game get as e be, but its your opinion.

I thought you said you were not really that bothered about his scoring because we all agree a striker can have a barren spell. You were particular about his link up play but be like say you don change the criticism to Lukaku has scored only 1 goal in 2months and you are shouting it upandan like you are selling agege bread.

so to you Lukaku is practically useless because he can't link up and is not scoring.

its turn around like this that make people think you just no like Lukaku.

Link to play against CSKA? To me it was not even superb

Who is CSKA?

elrony:
Elampiro this one has turned to spamming

The facts are too hard. They are revealing, and now I see many guys cannot face the facts.

raumdeuter:
In the same time Aguero has only scored from penalties. Remove those penalties and Aguero will be scoreless in over 2months

How many matches and how many minutes did Aguero play?

Are penalties not goals?