₦airaland Forum

elrony:
Baba Elampiro, that my last post you quoted is my take on Jones... everything dey inside!

Sometimes, people wey no know ball are allowed to have an opinion.

chrisley024:
elampiro and his conjectures sha. So a player being able to play many positions makes him more intelligent.

Now I know why you're Rooney, Valencia and Jones advocate. The jack of all trade in the team

One needs intelligence to play DM. Some passing is required too. It is absurd to say someone who played DM for SAF over two seasons, and against Madrid is not intelligent.

lekkie073:
bailly must play....
and smalling is a more tidy defender than Jones. so injury or not na bench sure pass for Jones

My guy we are going into a long season. Let’s wait and see. Last summer the story was 'Darmian must play, he is a natural right back... Look at his pre-season, Great! Great!! Great!!!'

So far I can see Mourinho has played Eric on the right side of the CD in two games, same place Smalling plays. He played Jones on the left in two games, Blind on same left side. Rojo on same left side. I will wait for the remaining pre-season to understand more. Don’t forget again, it is a long season. The one that started might fall out of favour.

elrony:
all the above is why I said you should stop living in yesteryears. ... I ll have to add "assumptions" too!!!

yea maybe he was good.....but not anymore! !!
he isn't reliable and that's not what a serious club needs!

I wish to see him shipped out,then he can prove me wrong!

but just so you know it; Phil Jones isn't just good enough any longer!!!...End of!!!!

He is very good (more than enough). How can you say such about a defender still under 25?

Lana1:
U get am. Baba is still living in 2012. That's why he can never agree with any1 dat Jones and Rooney are now shït!

If Mourinho start playing him, you would still say Mourinho is living in the past? You no know ball.

Lana1:
I just pray SAF would come out of retirement and we would immediately go back to dominating EPL and UCL.
Lol. With all due respeck please Shet Up!!

This is akin to what Chrisley024 and co told me and mocked me when I said we made a mistake to allow Nani go and we should buy him back in January this year. They said he was past it. But look at Nani in the Euro. He is better than anyone who could play our right wing. One of the best players of the tournament.

chrisley024:
You should ask yourself why he was shut out of the 1st team even after his injury, dude has been shyte.
The only way that would make him a good defender is a brain transplant, maybe with Blind. Would also help him in staying fit.

He returned too late. It would have been an injustice to Blind.

Dadehmola:
But you once told us Jones is our fittest defender - how come you now attribute his cluelessness, mediocrity & lack of football sense to injuries??

Go back to that post. I said if you remove last season, Jones has been fit more than our young defenders like Rafael, etc.



Jones is more intelligent than Smalling, Evans, etc. That was the only reason he would play DM for SAF. Just like Oshea did for us. You need brain to function as a DM. What Jones did at age 19 and 20 at central defence is still unmatched by any of our defeders since the departure of Vidic and Ferdinand. It is just that SAF played him out of position afterwards and now he needs plenty games there to stabilize. We have to bear in mind he is still 24. A 24 years who has mostly been played out of position.

funlord:



Firstly how can I jump on the side of others when I was the 1st to raise the point before anyone else after the match? Did you just feel something move within your skull? Good.....

Phil Jones argument has been here for more than a year. Stop making it look like you started it yesterday. Your skull lacks originality.

funlord:
Then secondly You asked me that you were not sure that the "marcos rojos" rumors were true, I gave you a link to read about the latest transfer rumors as regards "rojo" and then you immediately remixed it into the fact that the link has nothing on "phil jones?" Was it "phil jones" rumors you were doubting or "rojos"? 2nd movement just occurred right? Nice...........

So you actually think transfer Rumours are to be taken serious? You cannot assume Rojo is up for sale until he or Mourinho says so. Again, your link was a link to numerous unrelated stories/links, why can't a grown man like you give a specific link?

funlord:
Then thirdly you tried to tag me as a follower after I decimated all your delusional points in one take? Is that how you hope to attract sympathy from rival fans or _butt munchers! Classic followers tactic ehn?

You are a follow follow. You lack originality, even now you still write like a follow follow. You claim you dedicated my point when you could not even quote correctly and couldn't bring a specific link to support your point. I couldn't read your post because it was haphazard. I only click on the link you provided.

funlord:
Lastly you seem bitter and pained that everybody always opposes what you support? DON'T YOU WONDER WHY THIS IS ALWAYS THE CASE? You should you know?

Me bitter? I always win at the end. The beginning of last season I was told a better right back had come and Valencia should be sold. Before long, Valencia had displaced Darmian as first choice right back. When Valencia and Phil Jones were fit we were keeping clean sheet and forcing oppositions to limited attempts at DDG. By November when they were injured, we started falling from joint league leaders with Leicester to mid table. It took the return of Val to gain stability at the right back, but it was too late. Our attacking threats where better from the right side of the pitch and he helped us to finish well which culminated in FA cup victory. No wonder it was his speeding down the field when we were down to ten men that finally got us the winning goal.

Before Gaal came long arguments here were that Rooney, Jones, Valencia, would be the first to be sold. At the end, the players they said will make Gaal’s first team couldn't do well under him. Cleverley was to make the team with his passing. Anderson was to revive his career under Gaal. Rafael will pin down the right back, etc. So we had many bringing lengthy write up about Gaal’s philosophy and why some players will be sold immediately, at the end we know what happened.

funlord:
I know being viewed as our resident analyst is your life's ambition but don't develop schizophrenia or dementia as a result of this skewed belief in your limited abilities that you need in order to exist or live a fulfilled life bro!

What do you know about a fulfilled life? And you mentioned life ambition. You probably are still a student and have not started out in life. You are yet to take off from the starting block.

elrony:
Elampiro baba, you know deep in your heart that Jones isn't good enough for Manchester United!!!
stop living on yesteryears!!!!

I just pray Phil Jones goes injury free for one season, you guys will turn around to praise him. Two seasons ago, most people said Smalling should be sold because he was always not fit and not consistent.

Jones is a great central defender. No doubt for those who know football. The coaches know this.

chrisley024:
Nothing to do with pre-season, Jones has been worse since last season eventhough it was U21. Look at the video of how he got nutmegged twice under 30s by Chelsea U21 player, Kasey Palmer. http://www.101greatgoals.com/101ggvideos/skills/chelsea-starlet-kasey-palmer-posts-videos-nutmegs-man-uniteds-phil-jones/
1st video

He needs your prayer to save his career

Van Persie was even worse playing for the U-21. Same with Falcao.

A player returning from a long term injury doesn't over stretch himself in an U-21 game. It just to get fitness. Rooney was average in U-21 game, but a week later he was man of the match in a senior game for us.

Truly, if you isolate the games Jones play in the CD for us last season, you would see a very good defender. He out performed even Smalling in some of those matches like the one against Stoke (I think it was Stoke on a winding day and the flight of the balls were hard to time, but Jones did well against taller opponents.)

Manchester United's tour of China descended into chaos on Sunday with Jose Mourinho forced to hold a pre-match press briefing on the side of the stadium pitch due to stifling conditions inside the conference room.

The incident capped a chaotic 24 hours for United, with half the squad re-routed to an airport 160 miles outside of Beijing with the flight from Shanghai diverted as a result of adverse weather in the Chinese capital.

United and City are now both anxiously waiting to discover if Monday's friendly clash in Beijing will go ahead due to pitch concerns at the Bird's Nest.

Mourinho was fuming during his press conference today at the state of the playing surface at the Bird’s Nest Stadium in Beijing where his team face rivals City tomorrow.

The United boss says he doesn’t care what happens in the game so long as his players come through without injury and get on the first plane back home to England.

Mourinho said: “The pitch is very bad and the pitch and condition of my players is more important in pre-season. The problem for me are the bad conditions to play and train.

“My only objective is to take the players home safe and without injury. These are no conditions to play a good game of football.

“If it was a friendly it becomes a double friendly now. No injuries, play calm, play safe, go home and keep the preparation for next week.

“I want to go to Manchester and train with the whole group, play Galatasaray and Everton before we play Leicester.

“The positive of being here in China is the fans and the commercial activity. Sometimes there are factors you cannot control.

“We have a good group and spirit and we cope with it. Tomorrow is the last day and it is over."

And to add to Jose's anger a reported asked him was he happy that Portugal won Euro 2016: "What another brilliant question, are you expecting me to say NO! i am very unhappy?"

[Source: MUTV, The Sun] #MUFC #Mourinho #MUTour

chrisley024:
Hmm! So a player played fine since he had no hand in the goals conceded.

Well, we all know we'll soon return to his sick bed before September while still collecting his weekly alert

This is pre-season, there is more to it than giving a good performance. Jose clearly said players are on different level of gaining fitness, and they have different trainings according to the levels of fitness. He further went on to say it also party determine the minutes they give to players.

Who uses pre-season to write off players, except pure haters and amateur analysts? As far as the players are not being disgraced like Rojo or giving away cheap goals like our goalkeeper. Even as it is a pre-season, these two guys can still be forgiven.

funlord:

You cannot even quote well, how do I even expect you to understand football analysis?

Your skysports link has nothing on Phil Jones.

I am even sure you just jump on the side of those who think Jones is poor since it seems they are more. There is more to that, there is usually more people opposing whatever elampiro supports.
You just follow number/population.


Ladies and gentlemen, another follow follow on the thread.

I have seen some arguments about where Rooney will play. May be this will help to clarify some of the arguments. I have not been able to catch up with all the details of the arguments. Man has been busy



Wayne Rooney has revealed he's discussed his position with manager Jose Mourinho.

Mourinho believes the 30-year-old is best used in the No.10 position and the striker is looking forward to working for the Special One.

"It's almost like a free role and I am excited to play it, He said to me about playing No.10. That is something I've now got to work on and get myself in the right position to score goals.

"I have scored goals all through my career and I have no doubt in my goalscoring ability. Hopefully I can do that this season.

"I like to be involved in the game and I am now playing for Jose who, straight away, has no fears about players coming deep if they want to.

"It's a different way of playing, a different manager, different ideas and if I can bring my game and qualities to this team, then I know I can create chances and score goals.

“I came to United because I wanted to work under Alex Ferguson.

“What Mourinho has done in football — in Spain, Italy and England he is a manager who you want to play under because he is one of the best around and to learn from. It's going to be exciting for me to try and learn under a manager such as him.

“He is one of the best managers in world football and he has a clear idea of what he wants. I'm just looking forward to playing for him now.

“Jose has made very good signings and experienced players like Zlatan Ibrahimovic, who has worked all over Europe. We have that experience back of players winning trophies.

“The young lads who came through last season, he will help them as well. So I feel we are in a good place at the minute and can give it a good go next season."

[Source: Guardian] #MUFC #Rooney #Mourinho

funlord:
I watched it end even posted the highlights here for those that didn't !


Why do you think rojo has been put up for sale? He is even better than JONES sef, that was why GBRI was stating that his passport is the reason why he is still getting a free pass to consistently embarrass himself at old trafford!

Rojo better than Jones? You are the biggest joke of the century. Even Van Gaal mentioned how much he missed Jones after he had been out for months. We have had three coaches who said Jones is a very good central defender.

If passport is helping Jones, how come this same passport has not helped other English players who do not spend more than one or two seasons at senior level here?

I am not aware that Rojo has been put for sale. Where did you get that from? Mere rumours?

funlord:
Is blind a central defender? Don't let that _stupid van gaal experiment fool you! BLIND is actually a "central midfielder" that occasionally moonlights at "left back"! He even won player of the season at ajax for his MIDFIELD displays!

Now I know you lied about watching yesterday's match. All the analysis I read was that Blind played in central midfield and failed. One pundit even said it is clear that Blind will not play midfield and Mata will hardly get a nod for the number 10 role.

funlord:
Mata is mata! Our grouse is with the DEFENCE and PHIL JONES in particular! Guy "phil jones is wack" take it or leave it! In fact since we are in a democracy why don't you ask the other members of this board what they think of him and let them use the "like or share options" to rate the otimkpu? I'm sure you would like to see how they vote!!!

Since when has football analysis been done by voting? You can have a thousand moorons voting the wrong thing. Have we not seen players who got a general endorsmenemt and flopped?

I didn't see yesterday's match, but as long as Jones was not responsible for a goal conceded then it was fine. This is player who has barely played for 10 months, and he was played in the left side of the central defence. Even Rojo that uses left foot had to flop there terribly.

You no know ball.

Diademk07:
It was actually in the midfield Blind looked piss poor yesterday.
I think he's actually better in the defence than in the midfield nowadays because the defence allows him more time on the ball to operate whereas in the midfield, everything is too congested for a non agile slow paced player such as Blind.
Elampiro, I think why people were more vocal about Jones is the fact that he was quite poor throughout the minutes he played. The likes of Bailley and Shaw had 1-2 poor moments in the game but looked good overall. Rojo was as poor as Jones also. Nobody even bother about Rojo nowadays because we all know he's shite!

I have identified that Blind is not a midfielder since his first season. I wonder why people still promote him as a midfielder. He will have occasional good days against small teams, but generally he has no business there. I think his only position is the left back.

He was the reason Di Maria added defensive duty to his game when he played on the bench left side of our diamond midfield, and Blind was at the base. Di Maria got tired out easily due to defensive duty he had to add to his game. Something he didn't do at Madrid when he played in same position.

funlord:
Fahshi that bros! Some of his reasons for defending players can make you believe you are stuck in the matrix!




Valencia na boss for right back but the coach wants to buy fabinho maybe to be checking valencias text messages on the bench abi?



Jones is superb but even sky and espn pundits were high on ogogoro for thinking he was _shit?



Should I even bother to mention the rooney files?




Elamps is a joker! I think he does it for fun! How someone prefers what stats say to actually watching the game with their own 2 eyes amazes me!

I didnt watch the match, but I have seen the highlight and several analysis. There is almost unanimous decision out there that Blind was the worst player. Mata and Rojo the next.

Lana1:
Aside from d fact say me i watched d match and not highlight, professionals from ESPN picked Depay and Jones as the worst United players on d pitch. So i dont really care what u think u saw from the highlights.

Many processional picked Blind, Rojo and Mata as the worst players.

Rojo disgraced for the 3rd goal and no one talks about this.

Second goal.

The space Bailly allowed this guy allowed him to attempt the scissors kick which led to the penalty.

Dadehmola:
I talk am

Those who blame Jones probably didn't see the game or the highlight. They must have mistaken Rojo for Jones

Dadehmola:
Elampiro, what's your take on the matter or are you here to defend Phil Jones as usual?

I have two separate downloads of the highlight on my phone since yesterday, none of the goals was Jones' fault. The defender who was beaten like a two years old for a goal is Rojo. He was soon beaten again but got lucky that didn't led to a goal. No one talks about him, Rojo the worst player on the day.

funlord:
After watching the _stupid defending that went on in that our game yesterday I only have 1 question!



What is the point of "phil jones" abeg?


And why does the club insist on keeping him around? Does he have nude pictures of the board members doing the nasty or what?



And what sort of _stupid peroxide hair colour is that on his skull?



We need to be rid of this guy once and for all! Nonsense......................

But was Jones fault for the goals? The first goal was keeper's fault. The second goal was Eric and another player giving space to a Dortmund player to try a scissors kick in the box.

Lana1:
Jones was one of the culprits today. Maybe someone ll finally ve d foresight to sell dat idiot.

As for Depay, 2nd game nd he still played rubbish. No wahala. His time on d bench dis season no go get part 2....

From the highlight he was not guilty... in any of the two goals. I think Rojo is clearly the defence off form player.

Diademk07:
What?
You aint Manutd fan or what?
Bailly has been our best player while Pea has been Dortmund best player.

That was a typo error caused by my auto spell correction. I didn't send it to correct my spelling.

It looks like Jones didn't do well. He was yanked off at half time.

raumdeuter:
Teenager Dembele just wasted Manure entire defence

3=0

He beat a defender to score. That's what I saw just now. I took a peep.

Who is watching? I read elsewhere that Mephis is the best player on your side.

chrisley024:
So Valencia caused a pen while doing the GK job

How is the match? Who are the laggards?

Diademko7

You can see the same diamond playing around Tiote and Cabaye, with Rooney at the tip (hole) hole and Carrick at the base. Kagawa on the right and Cleverley on the left. That was our 3-0 at Newcastle in 2012/2013 season. But unite video against Leverkusen I didnt see a steady triangle.

Diademk07:
Lol!
Oh, that Rooney headed in the ball into the net, Kagawa's fantastic cross became insignificant?
More so, the other pass was intended for Mata. It was a through ball pass for crying out loud and not a pass that was ricocheted off a defender. This was Skysports report on the same match: http://www.skysports.com/football/man-utd-vs-a-villa/287600 The Espn report is also similar to the skysports report.
The fact that BBC is English player bias and Rooney darling just as yourself doesn't make others the same.
Lastly, between the Month of March ending and April, 3 players were nominated as our player of the month and they include Mata, Kagawa and Jones. Mata won it, closely followed by Kagawa in the second place (www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2014/Apr/vote-for-the-manchester-united-player-of-the-month-for-april-2014.aspx).
At least, Manutd fans agreed that Kagawa had his best matches in the period Mata started to play in the centre.

Different people different opinions. We are never going to reach an agreement on this.

Let’s move on from this argument.

Who would you play in the hole (number 10) between Kagawa and Mata?

Diademk07:
Lol!
I don't watch game by stats though. I watch it with my eyes. Till today, there's an highlight showcasing Kagawa forming a triangle with Giggs and Jones in the Leverkusen Match. He was dropping deep as far back as the central midfield to form a 3-man midfield. His movement, intelligent passes and spatial awareness were something else in the match even when he has yet to gell with his team-mates enough to know their movement.
No wonder Giggs as a coach thought Kagawa would be perfect fit as a CM, just as the way he deployed him against Southampton and Hull city in the last 4 games he coached Manutd. No doubt Kagawa can operate in the central midfield like he did for Dortmund on many occasion last season but he would have to operate in a 3-man midfield set up and not the 2-man midfield Giggs kept deploying him.
Back to the Leverkusen match, this was the Yoube showcasing Jones, Giggs and Jones tandem (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMucC_zamZk).
Watch that and tell how Kagawa wasn't good. This was a player whose his teammates rarely knew his movement nor the way he plays due to his lack of playing time with them.
In that same clip, there were passes he made while our other players were just ball watching or too slow to react. There were even 2 goals that he assisted the assist man in that clip.

It looks like I struggle to see the triangle you were talking about. I thought I would see something like our diamond structure against Newcastle in 2012 when we played around Tiote and Cabaye.

I think you failed to realize we got upper hand on the night via our speeding play by Nani and Valencia, not the short passes you assume here.

I know Kagawa's quality in find spaces between lines to receive a pass. I also know that he is not usually the type to cope stats as he is goal shy. I agree too football is not all about stats, but this video only shows what he did well all the night. Kagawa is known for high accurate passes, he even made 100% pass accuracy in one match for Japan, I think he played second half. So his poor pass accuracy against Leverkusen shows he did many things wrong on the night which were not recorded here.

I also see two occasions where he made poor decisions, like in one occasion, instead of playing Rooney through to the goalkeeper, he passed to Val.

Diademk07:
I don't even know how to respond to you. You need to watch that match again. Are you implying that Kagawa making a fantastic floated pass into the box where an unmarked Rooney headed in, is equivalent to Rooney rifling in his shot from 25 yards away.
That's very funny and ridiculous. You probably thought Rooney headed in from outside the box.
The other pass was a sure pass intended for Mata btw. Kagawa was even looking at Mata when he made that pass but some thought he meant it for Rooney because the pass was just too awesome and the only thing the Aston Villa defender could have done was to draw out a foul. Now compare that to Welbeck falling down because of a small nudge in the box. In fact, the cross to him was a poor one that was misjudged by the Norwich defenders and you're comparing that to Kagawa's awesome pass?

BBC
But the United fans continued to sing Moyes's name and saw their side level seven minutes later when Rooney expertly steered Shinji Kagawa's cross into the corner of the net.

The home side improved as the game went on, and took the lead just before half-time when Kagawa's pass, intended for Rooney, ran through to Mata inside the box. He turned inside Bacuna but was sent tumbling as the Villa defender dived in, and Rooney made no mistake from the spot.
m.bbc.com/sport/football/26694513

.......................




You can see from above that I know what I am saying. You claim Rooney effort from outside the box gave Kagawa the Assist against Norwich, so I can also claim that Rooney's expertly guided header gave Kagawa the Assist against Villa.

Diademk07:
How were we under threat against Newcastle with just 16 mins into the game and a wrongly ruled out goal? Abegi! That aside, Januzaj was even invisible in that match before his late goal. You're just grasping at straw here.
And Yes, Kagawa did looked decent vs Leverkusen in the 1st leg match but it was in the 2ng leg match that he looked awesome as a no 10.
I already addressed the Norwich match in my other post and the team looked scrappy in that match. More so, Kagawa didn't look good, he was just here and there despite his assist.
And no, Welbeck was very much available when Mata played in the middle. Also, it was only against Westham, the team looked fluid for a start after several boring display with scrapping win.

I don tire for you.


You see things from one angle. Kagawa was awesome as a number 10 against Leverkusen, you said. But Nani, Rooney, Giggs were far better than Kagawa. It was Nani's night. One of those nights Nani was in his element.

Rooney had 4 Assists (although two opta Assists), Nani scored a goal. Kagawa had no attacking stats. Just check this chart, Kagawa was only rated higher than the substituted Evra. Kagawa did not score, he did not Assist, he did not provide key passes as such, he did not do well in pass accuracy. Kagawa only touched the ball 49 times while Giggs touched it 78 times. Even defensive stats, Nani, Giggs and Valencia had more defensive stats than Kagawa. Oh! Nani, six interceptions, the highest on the night, on top of a great counter attacking play, he also had to one tackle and Clearance.

Kagawa tried in interchange of passes with Rooney who was the arrow, head. But don't make it look like he was magical or one of the better players. In fact Rooney in the number 10 role in the first leg had a better outing than Kagawa in the second leg .