₦airaland Forum

Read more about it here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8018991.stm

Well you can't exactly ban people like that. What we can do is instead quarantine them if needed, but since we lack the capacity to do this, it would be better to suspend VISA temporarily till the out break is curtailed if we are that concerned.

Finally, I think it is wrong that you see the need to refer to people as swines.

Hey, thanks SapeleGuy.

tombola:
Just like I have chosen to ignore you and others like you, Mr Lab Scientist turned Biomedical Indigo and indomie eating homo sapien.

Is that the best you have? Surely you can come up with more gems. Call me ElRufai or something.

naijaking1:
One reason why things continue to get worse in Nigeria is because there're people who continue to defend evil. For those people, I say wait till you're in the hospital, critically sick, lying on a strectcher waiting for an operation only to discover that of all the people dressed as surgeons nobody actually ever attended a surgery residency program. Then and only after that will you understand the disease called mediocrity.

NaijaKing1.

To put things into perspective here, I am sure you would have a fair amount of what BMS do and what not. I mentioned earlier that area is not developed yet in Nigeria and all hell broke loose with a few posters.

My nephew who is a dentist came down here and recently just left. He was totally blown away by the procedures carried out here in the schools. He also came around to visit me in the lab and he was given a guided tour [after much planning and seeking permission etc] and boy, he was forced to admit we have a long way to go.

Some of the machines are just non-existent in the hospitals in naija. And the ones available are so out of date etc are just a few things he pointed out.

For me, his actions just put things into perspective for me. If people  who are considered the best in their class/field  and sent over here for an exchange program is willing to accept that we have a very long way to go. [Coupled with my own experience back in naija] There is no way, I would take the opinion of a few people here who are just defending the indefensible. Period.

tombola:
Thank God people are begining to say that they are not what they want people to beleive they are, so, if you are not what you are making people to beleive you are, then shut up and speak no more because you are begining to stink as a pest in here, as a sore that refuses to go away.

Your reasoning is just bizarre. I have nothing to prove to anyone here, it is your problem and your prerogative you feel that way. Not mine. Bad news though, I am pretty much STILL here.

Haha so am a pest because your views are different to mine, and you consistently refuse to answer questions posed at you? 

tombola:
A man who said he is a Lab Scientist was asked how he will improve the health system in Nigeria if made the health minister, do you know what he said, he said he has no idea, yet, he is the one spearheading the repetitive and boring statements about the bad state of our health delivery, which we all know of course, but the question is, what will u propose to be done to make it better, this same man, if appointed has no vision and the vision he has is how to line his pockets with millions of dollars, why, because he gat no vision or mission on how to make things better.

You are asking me questions based on IFs, and I told you right there and then that I may not offer you the answers you want.

So you know me very well, that you even go as far as saying I want to embezzle monies right? Even though I made it clear I wouldn't want to pick up such a position/office,  You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Below is what I posted originally about your IF-type of question.

I am not a politician. My work is to save lives and as a result, I wouldn't want to take up a post as one am afraid. Smiley

From my view, what we need is a complete overhaul of how our health care works. We need to look at the problems we face and deal with it, instead of trying to compete as one of the best in the world. If we look at each problems and provide a solution that actually solves it, then over time we may be able to draw a model that will work for us.

We need to have a few things in place - for example Record keeping, training the right people for the job, letting people have hands on experience etc.

Are these not solutions? Or at least an attempt to answer your questions? But guess what you posted as a reply instead,

tombola:
ElRufai

You have just told me you dont have a solution for the problem, ok, I hear you, so, next person to talk. bye bye, El Rufai.

How is this a way to hold a debate?    You know here is what REAL TRUTH said about you, and quite frankly I think he's got a good point.

REAL TRUTH:
@Tombola: I had said before that you re just a lousy personality! If can not get involved in an[b] intelligent discussion why forcing yourself and making baseless and insensitive assertions?[/b]

Let's not forget that you have a habit of constantly not answering questions and just "attacking the man, instead of dealing with the argument" [Ad homen]. This is evident in some of the unanswered questions posed at you in this thread and others.

How wonderful it would be if the[b] ignore function[/b] is added to the fora around here.

On a different note, I just got back in not to long ago, and I kinda looked back on some my posts, It is just crazy man. I don't know how you lasted so long with almost 9k of posts! I am tired of debating and arguing now, I really do not see the point. Perhaps it is best to just read stuff here and say nothing.

It is getting tiresome for me now,

bgees:
And pls some people need to understand correctly ,CONCIOUS RAP ISN'T GANGSTER RAP.Canibus isn't a conscious rapper.

Tupac's rap is Gangsta rap, yet his lyrics are very much of the concious type. Canibus in my opinion is an intelligent rapper with [again] conscious lyrics. But if you think he isn't, then good for you.

[Sorry, I am kinda getting bored of having unnecessary debate around here. ]

Tombola you are funny. I am not a politician, hence I may not be able to offer you the answers you are after. Is that hard to understand? I am not the magic pill that will make all the problem go away. I am not the messiah, however it do not mean I am not allowed to have a say on what I perceive as the failings in Nigeria. Remember that.

Sky blue, the thread wasn't meant as a dig at anyone. My intention was to open people up and perhaps we can reach a common ground? Sorry you don't see the point.

^^ Okay

Just got back in, and don't think I can deal with this again. Sorry about the misunderstanding and all that.

noetic:
I can assume from ur previous post that this opinion is based on ur personal experience, right?

Yes. I am saying in my experience, people who screams racism in the UK are mostly people who are unable to achieve their goals in life and have resulted to blaming others.

noetic:
ur postulations are very uninformed.
Do these regulations have any impact or reflection on the private corporations like AIG, HSBC, VIRGIN, SKY or JC Decaux? u fail to see it from the overall picture, where a boss is a boss, and recruitment decisions are his and only his to be made.

How am I uninformed? Discrimination is illegal in the UK, how much clearly stated do you want it? These companies you mentioned are even less likely to be racist! You know why? They are in business to make money and as such will employ the best people suited for the job. In which case, it could be black or white.
That you will find, defeat your argument.

noetic:
well said but very wrong.

but what was the underlying cause of the first coup in 1966?
what was the underlying reason for the Biafra war?
whats the basis of the agitation for MASSOB and becomerich`s benin republic? Are all these not products of tribal sentiments?

Coups, calling for breakaway states etc are more or less characteristics of a developing nation.

Yes, while some of these may be of tribal sentiments, the ultimate goal is for control of resources. What do you think the militants in the Niger Delta are fighting for? It is all about controlling resources, even though they claim it is for the good of the people.

noetic:
I think u have a very minimal understanding of the subject matter.
I thought u said tribalism was no problem?
I never implied that in my original post and if this ur opinion, it is very unfortunate.
my take is whatever the definition of the division, be it racism, tribalism or any sort of discrimination, it is human wickedness and inability to see beyond one`s nose.

I do not claim to know everything, and unlike you, I actually try to engage and explain things.
Tribalism in Nigeria is a ruse for other things, that is not to say in itself isn't a problem!

Yes we can classify every negative human behaviour as wickedness, but perhaps understanding the reasons, the how, when why and how it happens may be better than just throwing a blanket of "Wickedness" on it.

Oh sorry about that. Makes more sense now. You are right though. I did that to a couple of posters around here, and it helps give an indication like you mentioned.

tpiah:
OP

this isnt rocket science.

All you have to do is go through people's past posts and draw your conclusions from there, not from what you "heard".

I am a bit confused with your post. What is not rocket science? What have I heard?

I am only trying to see if we can achieve a sort of neutral ground here, and like I said before here people's view. Surely not wrong in trying to understand what I perceive as a problem, a very common problem.

noetic

I personally feel some of our people are not ready for a change. Why do we keep allowing people who are incompetent to run certain aspects our nation? If After 40years, we do not have basic things like continuous supply of water, electricity and affordable housing, Perhaps we really do not want a change.

It is well known that people just tend to keep quiet and get on it with. That is a killing attitude and makes people who are incompetent to have the upper hand. My two cents.

Yes they are models to the people who may look up to them.

My other point, was trying to bring a different view and approach to the debate.

noetic:
of course u have a point. but are personal experiences not the yardstick for looking beyond ones noses?

and i see racism beyond the verbal pose, I see it from a corporate point of view that has led to countless limitations against the black or minority person.
While I am pissed at that, my post suggests that I see it (racism/tribalism) more from the human point of view. yoruba vs hausa vs ibo in nigeria, as seen on nairaland and the prevailing underdevelopment in the country, is an evidence that racism/tribalism/discrimination is an ugly human habit, that can be avoided.

Yes I guess one can argue that personal experience is what one learn from, but it is probably not always true as an indicator of the wider picture.

I try to believe there are systems set up in the UK here to hold people back, but in all my experience, I am starting to think it is probably a ruse for those who have not achieved what they wanted, or reach their goals hence the blame on the "faceless system"

In the UK, consideration are given to ethnics group in certain jobs. People in the UK will tell you how much uproar that have caused with the white people here. For example if two people both have the same qualifications and attributes, but one is black and the other is white, the government issue a guidelines that actually encourages the black man to be picked over the white man. For me, that goes against everything you mentioned about how racist the UK is.

Looking at it from Nigeria's view. I personally believe the issue of segmentation [i.e tribalism and whatnot] is more or less a ruse and the real problem is the struggle for a share of revenues/benefits of one kind of the other. This is evident by the number of states we have and the constant cries of some other minorities to create more.
Also the problem is more common in our own country due to low levels of education amongst our people.


Over all, it is a well known human trait that we feel comfortable with our own kind. This is not always a good attributes to display in my opinion.

blacksta:
Some argue that it may just boil down to jealousy, but i hope the some are wrong

I would like to think so too, however there are more evidence from people's personal experience to suggest it more of jealousy that is probably born out of bitterness. [Bitterness brought about by the state of things in their own life].

Kobojunkie:
I believe it is simply that many can not stand opposing views of any kind. This is not just on nairaland and it is certainly a part of the reason why the people living in Nigeria today can not seem to agree that it is time to change things. You go out to any gathering where you have Nigerians and try to do the same, you will note it almost immediately.

You have a point there, at the risk of getting accused of siding with you. It would be nice to actually have a worthy contribution from people who are home. I believe those who are have posted so far do not resides at home [Naija].

I think a few people's action should not let us lose sight of the good work done by the majority.

As for UK, I don't think the people are as racist like your post suggested. I suppose it all boils down to personal experience.

I recently just started posting here, and from what I can see there appears to be some sort of division here. The divide is between people who resides primarily in Nigeria and people who resides in other parts of the world.

From where I stand, surely we all love Nigeria the same way and we all want the same thing - A better Nigeria. Why can we not get along in a debate without reminding ourselves than some live home and some are abroad? Or Is it not possible to actually debate on an issue for what it is?

Or is it just human nature that is taking over every now and then, that we see the constant need to bring in some sort of division reminder in almost all debate?

For me, I respect the opinions of those back home, and I wonder if they would respect the opinions of those who aren't home? I think a few of us get over-worked for nothing when people who have had a wider exposure points out the obvious flaw in the way certain things are done in Nigeria. Surely, this is only a good thing? As much as folks back home may not realise, it hurts people abroad to see how things work efficiently in some other areas of the world but our very own! So if these people are to point these flaws out, it is in a way an indirect way of showing how much they love their home nation and want it to achieve such status they have seen elsewhere!

I believe that Nigeria as a whole have potentials and we just need to let go of something and bring about new changes. We need to do away with old ways and keep some of our aspects that have been proven to work positively. One of the things that needs to go is the constant need to create a division amongst ourselves.

I suppose this thread is to gauge the views of people here as to why the constant division mentality amongst us.

debosky:
Once again you have made a HIGHLY presumptive statement. You admit that you 'really do not know the Obamas' and in the next breath you state definitively that the way they act would have been rehearsed for tv. . . .there is a clear disconnect there.

How can you give an opinion on the source or root of their 'moves and acts' if you have not observed them prior to the increased media spotlight? Have you related with them outside of the media glare to determine whether this is a genuine act or not?

I believe this is simply deep seated cynicism on your part, and that is part of what the Obama family is about - showing people that it doesn't have to be rehearsed or fake - people can and do have functional families, even with ups and downs.

Having a PR people behind them would mean they would be "coached" at one stage or the other. It is well known that high profile people often get media coaching before attending a public event as all eyes are on them. The Royal family do this every now and then. I personally do not feel there is a clear disconnect though, merely stating what I see and drawing from well known examples.

Another example to indicate a coaching of some kind is during the presidential campaign, Michelle was accused of being abrasive and too harsh by critics, she then toned it down from there on and now, she is much more approachable etc. The point I am making is that her PR machine would have advised her on how she conducts herself etc.

I cannot keep this up, as it sounds like am going round on the same spot.

I suppose if the majority of the people disagree, then my view is highly unpopular then and incorrect to those concerned.

Horus:
I did take my time to read the thread,but I dont see anything accurate that we can call answers.

Put together by who?, when?,and how?,before or after their wedding?

Really? Let's try again, shall we.

How many families have a PR behind them? The mere fact that a PR is involved is probably enough to say they do not represent a "True family".

The Simpson analogy was used to deliver home a point I was making. We know more about the Simpsons, than we know more of the Obamas.

Again for the second or third time or so, when I said "Put together" I was referring to the work of the PR people who "put them together" via telling them how to act and behave in a public place etc. I wasn't talking about their marriage or how they met et al.

What is the catch?

debosky:
Highly presumptive statement. What is a 'true family'? If the Obama family is a representation of people's aspirations but remains genuine (i.e not a PR stunt like you claim), then there is nothing wrong with it.

I don't know how the Simpsons is a 'truer family' than the Obama's - I don't know many folk that let their kids steer the car while they eat pizza But lots and lots of families can relate to having a crazy new dog in the family.

I detect a deep seated cynicism in your post overall.

We really do not know the Obamas, but apart from what we see on tv. We know more about the simpson [there up and downs] than we know of the Obamas. I used the Simpson analogy to illustrate my point.

All their moves and how they act would have been rehearsed for the tv and in most cases, they would at least had a "tv coaching".

I have nothing against them, only that I pointed out what my observations are. However, I know not a lot of people will agree with me.


@Horus.
I already answered that before. Take your time to read the thread.

tombola:
Na wa o - the way some people reason is just out of the ordinary. So because they are hungry, they are right to resort to drug peddling? Have you seen these kingpins and drug peddlers and talk to them? Do they tell you it is hunger that pushed them to do what they did? Poverty! So all of the poor people in Nigeria should resort to drug peddling and various crimes to live right? Your thinking makes me want to poo in your nose, if the hole is big enough.

I am not gonna start a war of words with you. But instead allow me to show you how wrong your points are.

With poverty comes desperation and with desperation comes the need to do anything. These drug peddlers arrested at your local airports are not the big guns running things, they are merely people who are used by the King pin to get the job done.

A good example to illustrate this is the Somalian boy that is now being tried for Piracy against the US. He is only 16 and he was used by someone who is the King pin behind all of these. The boy only got involved as a result of the offers and promise of a good lifestyle.

It is well known that in poverty, people are much more gullible and will do something they normally wouldn't do if the situation is different.

To deny a link between poverty and drugs pushing is just silly. Maybe you should look at Afghanistan and do some research.

sleek_p:
The Gurkhas are mugs who fight in conflicts that has no links to them. These people are hired mercenaries and deserved to be taken for a ride.
Nepalese should be fighting for Nepal not acting as canon fodder for white imperialism. Kudos to the Home Sec for this audacious move.

What happened to the[b] Armed forces covenant[/b]?

So you AGREE there is a PR behind it then? If you do, then it is not far-fetched to say it is not a true representation of a real family.

By saying put together, I was referring to the work of the PR people behind it.

tombola:
ElRufai

You have just told me you dont have a solution for the problem, ok, I hear you, so, next person to talk. bye bye, El Rufai.

It makes no sense. You want me to offer a solution as minister of health when am not one? Here, please tell me who you would make a Manual differential on a sample.

I don't know why you guys resolve to acting childish in a heat of a debate. Calling me ElRufai means what exactly? Is it supposed to make me cry? lol.

dnex:
Ehen, dem don come again. Who has started spreading these lies again? India, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Somalia, Congo, Haiti, Pakistan, Chad and Niger all have better Healthcare than Nigeria? I hail O! Who are these people that just breathe out statistics from thin air?

From research, from actually visiting what we have and comparing it with other nations of the world. By reading reports made by individuals working in these areas etc.

tombola:
ElRazor

You are in the medical field - if you are to assume the role of Minister of Health today, please let us know what you will do to make our health facilities one of the best in the world, i.e. commensurate with what you have seen where you live,, I ask you to do this because you seem to be very knowledgeable in the filed you fould yourself - apart from lining your pockets like the diasporians who came home to become Ministers and governors did, what will you do, please, this is a serious issue.

I am not a politician. My work is to save lives and as a result, I wouldn't want to take up a post as one am afraid.

From my view, what we need is a complete overhaul of how our health care works. We need to look at the problems we face and deal with it, instead of trying to compete as one of the best in the world. If we look at each problems and provide a solution that actually solves it, then over time we may be able to draw a model that will work for us.

We need to have a few things in place - for example Record keeping, training the right people for the job, letting people have hands on experience etc.

To illustrate my point here. My nephew who is a dentist is one of the best in his class, when he came here about three month ago for an exchange programme with University of Newcastle he was all arrogant and thinking he knows everything. Once he went for his programme, he was blown away and see how things are actually done here. He was forced to admit that Nigeria have a long way to go.

You see, it would be hard for me to even convince anyone her, unless people are made to see things themselves. Hence why I said people should be trained to have actual hands on experience.

tombola:
This man ElRazur is a laboratory scientist, yet, he claims his profession is not in Nigeria - who says so, back in my youth service days, I had friends who do exactly what you said you do, and what did they train as, they trained as laboratory scientists -

You know it is all good and well to make claims of what you do not know about. You know there is a different between what I am doing and what is been taught in Nigerian schools? I think you should do a bit of research and you will see how far off the mark you are.

tombola:
When last have you visited any hospital in Nigeria, or maybe the ones you visited are the ones in the rural places where you are opportuned to live b4 you travel? Or you want to tell me that all hospitals or clinics where you are have the same equipment and diagnotic tools as others? We know Nigeria is not as good, you dont need a sooth sayer to tell us this - what are you as a person doing to remedy the situation, apart from claiming your field is not developed in Nigeria, what else are u doing about it? Even there are space scientists in Nigeria, contributing to reserarch and co, talkless of a mere lab scientist.

I visited LUTH and a few other places. I even have newphews who works as Doctors and Dentist in these places. and for the record, I was in Nigeria less than 9months ago.

See you keep making untrue claims. Yes hospitals here have a standard. That is why it is called the NHS [National Health Service] and as such, there is a minimum standards to be expected.

I am not making claims like you think, it is a well known fact that my field is not developed in Nigeria. Your problem is that you seem to think simply because you are back home, means everyone else should be. Space scientist may be back home, so are doctors and engineers. However, do they have what it takes to competes on a world stage? I rest my case. Look dude, I do not have the Magic pill to solve all the problem so asking "what have you done" is irrelevant. I am not about to put my training and expertise into an area that is severely lacking back home.

If you really know what Biomedical scientists do, perhaps you wouldn't have labelled it as "mere lab scientist", what an ignorant thing to say. **shakes head** I suggest you really do your research.

It would be almost impossible for BBC to get that report wrong. I am disappointed to be honest. Somebody need to be fired for that, and let's employ someone who know what they are doing. According to the report, it aint the first time its happened.

Speaking of incompetency, I wonder if anyone here would defend this [Yeah kinda related to the debate at hand]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/africa/8017173.stm