₦airaland Forum

@FLG

A true ekiti person go sabi go through that 83 pages and them some more, twice in 20mins. And then present analysis here. Wetin you get all those Phd for again?

What a crazy thread.

So here is what I see so far, a report is made on the state of illiteracy, and those who felt it touched their nerves are all going round, looking for reasons to discredit it. Heck some are pointing at other nation like UK [In order to upset the UK dwellers I suspect]. On the other hand, some are genuinely dismantling the weak arguments posted by those who do not like the report.

I love it. Nairaland is more predictable than the weather I swear.





When will people be cure of these "Blind patriotism" and "Nigeria is the giant of Africa" mentality?  


Nah wah o.

@presselect

An alternative view is that a good leader should not be immune to criticism. Even if it questions his logic.

The General already apologized, and if he is the right man for the job, let him continue. While it may not be what you want, the overall goal is more important.

Nopueater.

No offence, but your post hurt my head. Others have raised the same issue, so my observation is even more valid.


Put it this way, my lack of interest in your posts is because they are rants, illogical for the greater part and hurts my head and eyes reading them.


When you start posting something meaningful, factual and concise, I may perhaps reply to them. 

Paddy_lo I beg you, no dey encourage am make him come dey rant for here again.

dayokanu:
The civilians that are killed are Guilty civilians unlike Israel who kills innocent civilians

lwkmd.

davidylan:
Its ok folks . . . the jews are not involved so we dont have the frothing in the mouth from the false exponents of "peace" and "justice", no demands for UN "investigations, no cries about "international land", nothing about "disproportionate response", nothing from Ban Ki Moon to quote . . . infact no contributors to this thread.

lol it amuses me to think Turkey declares that they will fight "until the terrorist organization is eradicated". I'm sure Erdogan has forgotten Israel may want to take the same stance too when it comes to the HAMAS terrorists that he is only too happy to re-arm.

Word.

In addition to that, I am gonna predict that if any one of them ends up posting in here, it will be typical bickering, clutching for straws, "insulting people then claiming they do not do so etc" or just plain acting stupid while missing the point.

Sagamite, take joy in knowing that the courts have special packages of jail sentence for those who commit despicable crime against certain member of the society. This members of the society include OAPs, Serving Military men, Powerful and influential politician/people etc.

I am sure they will get the treatment they deserve in jail. The society frowns on such crimes, but even frown further when it is committed against military men serving lol.

I am guessing, we will see them once they all have an average age of 60 or something behind jail. What a waste of life.

nopuqeater:
ElRazur is almost beginning to act as a nuisance. I would have said you are (, ). I am not going to say that because i do not want to go there.

I think you are an imbbbecile who is ranting, but I am not gonna say that. You see, how that logic of yours sound? Awesome isnt?

now, tell us the beginning the age of maturity, even right there in nigeria or whereever you live? Everyday in america, we read and hear about freaky boys and girls having sex and making pact to get pregnant. a whole slew of talk shows, reality shows, etc are developed and made many people famous. Last year, the suburb of boston massaxhussetts had a clique of white high school girls becoming mothers.

You are daft. A female do not become a woman at 8, not even at 10 years of age. But I guess you messenger of God (Shiiit peace be upon him) is way too Hot to realise that?

Medically, things are not as advanced back then as it is now, so do not even try to argue that females back then started their period at 8 years of age. But, hold up one second, let us assume they do, it is still not an indication that they are sexually ready or can their body cope with the out come of sex at such age.

You really are just ranting, I am talking about Mohammed and not the white man or black man here.

mr man, you need to get up from the low class thinking you dwell in. Everything is relative. When Isaac Newton spoke about gravity, that was the highest knowledge then. Today, it is something for middle school children to know. Ph. D materials 500 years ago is now something for undergraduates. I use these as materials to tell you that 1000 years ago, a man who is 15 is expected to have his own family, in many cultures. That will be frowned upon in today;s Lagos.

So you are saying 1400 years ago Muhammed cannot tell the difference between a grown woman, and an immature female of 8 years old? Okay, your religion truly rocks. R Kelly, would have been right at home with Muhammed as best of friends.

Another thing your logic above tells me is that Islam ways of doing things suck and it is not compatible with the present day. I mean, go watch the video to see where am coming from.

if my younger sister or daughter is willing to sleep with a disbeliever like you, I will right her off my bloodline as filth, belonging to filth.

I set up a trap, and you walked right into it! So you think am a filth for wanting to fcccuk your sister? But you worship and have your belief system around a man who bears the hallmark of a paedophile? Lwkmd. 
Classic case of entrapment and double standards.

Mr poster, post the link. so that I can respond to the content instead of ELRazur who is acting freaky gullible. My not being able to see the link is the reason am not able to access it. by the way, there is no shame being in nigeria, it is my root. i am not there though, but i miss her.

You are an idddiot . I am sorry, but you truly are an iddiot . The video up there is a link. Get it? If you double click on it, it takes you to "Youtube"  where you can watch the video and get more information about it.

Again, watch the video and come back and talk. As it stand so far, you are just ranting and rambling.

Ilu oloki ki o, ile nigeria. emi o ni gbagbe re. each time ELRazur is shooting blank.

Stop ranting.

Dude the link to the video is right there in the original post.


Seriously, you are a joke for trying to justify the actions of a grown man who had sex/married an immature girl.

Look, I am 20something years old, is it okay for me to fcccuk your immature daughter or sister if you have any? Nice isn't?

Go to a proper "cyber cafe" and pay your N100 to watch it, then come back and lets talk. No point getting distracted already when you are yet to watch the video that the thread is about.

His actions are that of a "Violent conduct". It is shame he do not appear to have learned from history. In major tournaments by FIFA, such actions are not allowed. Period.

Referees have been told to show Zero tolerance. I mean, remember David Beckham? He got dismissed for his girly kick on an opponent who fouled him. Remember Zidane for his head-butt? He was sent off too etc. It is a shame our player is not disciplined enough.


As to if he is on drug, I disagree it was just a moment of madness and we all have one of those from time to time.

Beaf,

I think she is talking about those who take money and then look the other way, without regards for the consequences.

I am sure a few village elders, people in the government etc are guilty of this kind of accusation in my opinion.


It is not far fetched to say some of the people are truly not united, as some of them people are making money out of the misery of others.

The Time [UK] had a similar article on comparison between the ND and the spill in the US Gulf right now.

I suppose it boils down to difference in "civilisation". People can vent out their frustration and anger in the US without fear of persecution from the powers above. Try that in Nigeria and it becomes clear as to why there isn't much fuss.

Also, one can argue that much fuss have been made in the past, but the world is currently not listening I think.

nopuqeater:
ElRazur; Allah is the Owner of Knowledge, Wisdom. If Allah made Muhammad (AS) who was half orphan before birth, a full one at six and lived with foster parents till he became adult, Jesus the son of a young girl who conceived at the end of first menstruation, without being married, Moses who was tongue twisted men of wisdom (read their so called "books" if you can find that of Jesus and Moses in their purity), then I am certain He will give our responses enough wisdom for you to notice, in a unique way as the wisdom used by Solomon (AS) to protect the life of the little infant whose step mother wishe he/she be sliced to two halves.


It is true that I cant watch the video the reason I asked for the link, but that does not stop me from responding to the entries of those who agree with what the speaker in the video said. They said "she" so I assume she is a woman without second guessing her gender. I dont know whats filthy in what I said and my analysis of Biblical jesus is directly from the Bible, whilst the Christians take him to be "God". So I dont get your ranting.


Who is a minor in 1400 plus years ago? Wat age is demarcated for the beginning of adulthood? The Jews still say Barmitva is that age, which is 13 years. Yesterday, a friend was telling me that Brazil has a tradition of sleeping with a girl with just a sign of bosoms on her chest. He said a bump like a mosquito bite is an enough sign. Again, in america, some states, in mere 50 years ago had the age of marriage and maturity i hope not minor anymore at around 12. Even in New York State, today, a girl with the consent of her parent can marry her older suitor if she wishes, definitely a boy who is 17 years like her. Yet 17 is still a minor!


Moses was also a killer and a fighter. David was the same. Solomon was the same. Yahweh gave Torah to Moses after he killed the "egyptians" based on tribalism and nothing else. David killed Goliat, killed the husband of his future lover. Solomon killed and fought just as much. Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines just for good measure. Listen, and there was no one in the Bible that was described as wiser than Solomon.


read my responses to your entry and you will see your short sightedness. so you are very gullible, if nothing else.


I know the west enough. My statement of blaming still does not indicate that i do not love her. part of love is sometimes to blame, pointing out the faults of your beloved. I know you do not understand that.


Am not perfect. However, since I live in the west, I do have the right to speak the truth even if it is against my head.


The fact that you do not believe that there is a God Who creates, hence you hate religion shows that you are not better, but worse in the brainwashing department. by the way, I am waiting for the Video link,so that I can have my own objective opinion of what I see.

I'm sorry, but you are full of IT. I do not subscribe to your sort of thoughts am afraid.

Are you suggesting Muhammed do not know the difference between a kid and a sexually mature women 1400 years ago? If so, another reason why your religion sucks. Trying to hide your points behind God and trying to give justification as to how Islam is the way or Muhammed is "from god" is a waste of time with me.

The video works for most, as to why it do not work for you, is not my problem.

Read about the case the other day. Not professional at all in my opinion.


The embedded video aint working though.

Oh, BP have no choice in my opinion. When shares start to fall and stocks get wiped out, it forces companies like BP to cooperate without much hassle. Remember, the public opinion of them have changed, hence why they went on the ad campaign to change such perception.

Put it this way, those moaning are more or less doing so, so as to be seen as pro active and "sticking it to the Americans". From my recollection, Cameron [PM] phoned Obama, and Obama simply reiterated that this is about BP and not the British people.



The media needed something to write about, and hence the fuss you see.


The real worry, lies in the whole pension system that is tied into BP. Apart from that, I am not so sure the government is making much fuss like the media is claiming.

eros:
but will blame the supposed learned lawyer who was so foolish to actually file the case in court.

No. The lawyer/Solicitor, is smarter than you think. He is getting paid for his services, no matter how ridiculous the claims may be. He is providing a service. There are more ridiculous cases than this being filed across courts in the world.

A known legal joker, once filed lawsuits against David Beckham for "having forces that defy science in his legs when he plays freekick". You can look this up.

JeSoul:
I was surprised to hear the news. I thought BP would put up a fight. I wonder how the Brits are taking the news . . .

I'm sorry, but the Brits got it wrong on this one. I am yet to see any official stance to suggest or back up the claims made by Politicians in the UK [Cameron and Boris Johnson].

These folks need to wake up, Pollution like this cannot be over looked. Besides, all these Oil company are becoming too powerful, just take a look at Nigeria.

Mpele:
I don't understand as to why they keep on saying this is Africa's world cup as if Africa is one thing! Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Mali, Chad etc have nothing to do with this world cup. In fact African countries voted for Morocco, so why call this an African world cup.

I don't understand why people are making fuss over something so minor.

Calling it Africa's world cup is nothing but a "symbolic statement". I.e. it is the first world cup in the continent of Africa.

Also the referral to it as Africa's is also another symbolic phrase of how there is a "brotherhood view" amongst Africans. You know, just the same way "Muslims" sees each other as "brothers".

In years to come, if more and more world cup is hosted in Africa, then the use of the symbolic "Africa's world cup" will probably cease or be of little use.

It is no big deal in my opinion. It is South Africa's tournament, but as it stand, it takes nothing away from SA, if it is called Africa's world cup.

nopuqeater:
paddy lo: i cant watch your video. maybe you give us the link so that we can watch it and respond to 'the truth" the woman. Allah Will give us wisdom to see what she said and respond appropriately.

wisdom, enlightenment, mercy, etc each is from Allah. There is no need for reformation in Islam. Why? You reform what is not perfect. And if it did not mean it literally why appearing on the pages of the Bible. Jesus never abolished the stoning of women and am going to say man, too who performs illegal sexual act. Just like Moses said in OT.

I know that Jesus is the symbol of peace, though as a child he beat up the money changer, and as adult insulted his parents, called the Jews Vipers, evil people, etc, and commanded the purchases of swords if the individuals dont already have a pouch/bag (whats in those? who can tell us? would it be less lethal than sword? I personally doubt it, equal or more lethal than sword, i say). then he showed ungratefulness to God Who sent His Angels to strengthen and support Jesus, as Jesus was told before, even then on the cross he cried out in outright disbelief of God's commitment to protect him. Unless the God he prayed to and promised to protect him was a liar, Jesus cry of why has thou forsaken me is out right disbelief in, unjust to God. how is he a symbol of peace over say John or Zakariyya?

only gullible people can be satisfied with what the woman pandering to western audiences and nations is saying. lies i say, though i have not seen it. however i know enough Quran to be satisfied with it. and almost all my life is spent in the west, yet. i know enough to tell when somebody is not telling the truth about Islam. anyone can slant any issue to fit his/her own idea. Heck i know somebody in the world may even say that automobile is bad, because somebody have been hurt by it, forgetting that it i not meant to hurt people, but to move quicker that walking from point A to point B, 20 miles apart, in normal situation!.


man post the link for us who are not so top notched in computer can watch the lies from your new found woman hero.

I was reading your post with much optimism, until I came across this and effectively dimissed the filth you posted

"Allah Will give us wisdom to see what she said and respond appropriately."


So, let me get this straight, you cannot watch the video, but went ahead to post more filth, and even tried to discredit Jesus in the process? Whilst ignoring the fact that Muhammed had sex with a minor, he was a killer and a fighter? Lwkmd. And you have the guts to even claim some people are gullible?

One thing that surprises is how you see the need to blame the west in all of these? You forgot that real and true Muslims live in the west too? You are one funny man [in an unfunny kinda way]

It is true, religion is a form of brain-wash.

While there may have been complaints about the ball, it should be noted that they are in the minority. However, Germany have been using the ball from quite a while, and that may perhaps [Perhaps I said, and not a fact] means that they may have been used to the physics of the ball characteristics?

The ball is reported to be light, and not like anything players in the EPL are use to - A different ball was used here. Some Nike made ball or something.

On the other hand, England's Capello may just be moaning too about the ball because he is under pressure?

This is not the first time and clearly not the last. The Turkish if I remember correctly refer to it as "incursions". But I guess those who have rose tinted glasses around here will not say much.

Also, it may be of interest to people to have a read on actions of Turkey on the SS Struma ship.

Here is wiki for quick background reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Struma

FL Gators:
^


@post
How could you have been deported if you were a citizen of the EU?

Illegal activity? lol.

It is hard to argue with most of the points she raised. I mean, she says what most of us already know, but do not have a big platform to air it. Those are some "cold-water in your face" type of opinions and I share them. I am guessing based on are previous interview, a fatua is already decreed on her head.

The only thing I disagree is when she referred to Jesus as a symbol of peace, or something along those lines. The bottom line is that all religion are tool used by men for control - usually with political aims - Christianity is not an exception.

It will be interesting to see Muslims argue against this one.

The problem here in my opinion is nothing but religion. There is no difference between these people and those who use religion to make political statements across the world.

Once men do away with abstract ideologies like religion, perhaps we may have a slightly peaceful world?

I cam across this story, and I thought it was a funny and seemingly weird response.

When S.Korea asked the UN security council to act as a result of the recent ship sinking incident, N.Korea's UN spokeman responded as follow[i] ""If the Security Council release any documents against us condemning or questioning us in any document then myself as diplomat I can do nothing, but the follow-up measures will be carried out by our military forces,"[/i]

When asked to make further clarification on his statement, he said ""I told you that if any action is taken by Security Council against us, I lose my job," he said. "Military will have its own job, I mean follow-up. I gave you the answer. You can prejudge what is the meaning I have told you."



Full story here.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37710977/ns/world_news-asiapacific/

I wonder if this is just a case of desperation, or the spokes man is really making subliminal threat? In all honesty. I take the whole thing with a pinch of salt, but kinda weird to read such a response.



Meh.

I have a pound bet on them beating Argentina, so if it happens, I walk in and collect my 7pounds.

I also have a pound bet on USA beating England, another 7 pounds if they do.

I betted that South Korea will win, and now am 3pounds richer.

Roll on 3pm.  

Hey, am back now.

Romeo4real:
@ElRazur -
What I'm saying is that this was a civilian vessel, carrying aid in international waters. The Israelis do NOT deny this. They choose to board the vessel. They knew the contents, and where it was heading. This was no secret. The purpose of the boarding was not to verify the cargo, but to stop its intended journey.
If so, then the rules of engagement cannot be "shoot to kill", as is clearly so in the case of the activists killed.

Again, it appears you are picking what you feels helps get your point. I do understand where you are coming from, but do you understand that in the eyes of the Israeli government they have every right to board the vessel? I have seen several legal arguments from both sides across internet forums. It boils down to which one you will follow.

Also, it may be worth knowing that the entire contents of the Cargo is not known. After all, guns, stun grenade were found on board, and these were never disclosed on the cargo's manifest.

The aim of the mission is to stop, search and take to the port. As it stand, there is an embargo and to try and undermine such embargo is calling for trouble. [We may argue back and forth on the legality on the embargo till jesus comes back, but as it is stand, it is there and from the Israeli point of view, very good reasons too, and one of many reason the vessel was boarded.

I have seen it, and the IDF achieved their intended aim with regards to the Rachel Corrie. They knew that if they used overwhelming brutality in the first instance, this would serve as a lesson, and dissuade the next set of activists from offering the same resistance.

Again, you appear to have a different view. I am of the belief that there would have been no violence if no resistance was offered all along. It is a good thing both sides learnt their lesson and behaved accordingly on the second event. :

)

. This is an inappropriate analogy. The police have the RIGHT to stop you, order you out and search your vehicle. Israel had no such right with regards to the vessel - either in Israeli or International law. Do you get the point?

No it isn't! The IDF have a mandate to protect the people of the nation, and as such have every right to stop any vessel that is perceived as a threat. Israelis have the right to live without worry of attack or weapons getting smuggled in etc.  [And so are the Palestine].

Yes but not in this case so this argument i invalid. The event was well publicised. The loading was a public event, and Israel, with the best intelligence organisation in the Middle East would have had Aman, Mossad or Shabak operatives on the vessel, or at the ports. The contents of the vessel, nor its passengers, were NOT under question.

How can it be invalid, when threat was used against those whose aim was to board, search and take the ship to the port? How can it be when weapons were used in attack against the IDF? Again, I am asking you, despite all the public drama surrounding the loading of the event, I wonder if they truly showed when and how weapons were smuggled on board? Stun grenade, Guns, etc are all offensive weapons. I wonder if all of these we made known to be on-board? As it stand, the boarding of the ship proved to be the way to go in my opinion.

Perceived threat to what? Please clarify and prove this statement.  If it was, what exactly was it a threat to? The illegal blockade of Gaza? So it is OK to enforce something that is illegal by killing people? What skewed logic!

See above. Anything could have been smuggled on to that ship. A public display of the "loading drama" of the ship is not a proof that no weapons are on board. The subsequent boarding showed that already isn't it?

Also the history of using Ambulances, Charities and other disguises are good enough reason to perceive such vessel as threat. After all, it is another form of "aid" and as far as the Israeli authorities are concerned, they have a responsibility to protect their land, people and interest from attacks.

Err, this is a duplicitous statement. Please back this up with facts. Tell me what it was a threat to.

See above, plus a threat to the destabilisation of the blockade etc.

Erm, these are Turkish assertion, given to news media worldwide. So far, none of the international media have called them speculation, and the Israeli government has not denied any of the autopsy reports. In fact, rather than contradict, they have tried to "explain" the findings, so i don't understand why you are making excuses.

Israelis have no confirmed anything either. Remember, these two nations are unofficial allies of one another and as such, see the attempts to offer explanation by the Israelis as nothing but mere political formalities.

Remember Turkey are doing nothing but trying to be seen as an influential power in the region, so do not be fooled.

Ok, so the activist shot in the back of the head, was also in self defence?

In the moment of madness, in the moment many poorly organised armed men decided to take on the IDF? You damn right it is self defence! Sharp shooters are trained to shoot to kill, you know that. 

Well, we can speculate to no end, but that's not the point. Given a history of Israels brutality, and based on the FACTS so far, it is clear there was a shoot to kill policy. This is NOT self defence.
Unfortunately, you choose to believe the IDF's account, and not the activists. All the activists confirm the Israelis started shooting from the helicopters as they were rappelling down and as they landed on the vessel.

There are wild speculations, and there are logical speculations. I would like to think mine are logical, as I have refrained from anything "wild".

Rules of engagement varies. If someone comes towards you with intent to kill you/disarm you/stop you from your mission objectives etc. Shooting to kill in such circumstances are nothing but self defence in my book. Also, do not forget that the rules of engagement varies from one nation to another.

It is a shame, you appear to have sympathy with the "peaceful protester".  Shooting while rappelling down into a riot zone is not something I remember seeing in the video posted by the IDF. It is hard to take aim through cross-air while one is rappelling down. Heck, it is harder to even hit a target that is moving in unpredicted manner.

I have not done any forensic analysis. All the facts are in the public domain, and so far, the Israeli government has no denied any of them.

Turkish reports are not facts, but assertion. Let them invite the international media or unbiased body to come and view these so called autopsy reports. As it stand, I do not view their report as fact - Something you have used to back up your view points.

Also remember that the protesters all claimed they never did attack any of the IDF, yet subsequent videos have shown that they weren't even "peaceful" but armed and did attack the IDF. I will take their views with a pinch of salt to be honest.

redsun:
Tell it to the birds in this case means tell it to birds brain like you that dreads to see things outside the box.

I am trying to makes sense of that, but it is hurting my head. I am sure it makes sense to you though. Keep it up.

Secondly,there is nothing you are saying here that you have not said before trying to justify your delusion that the act of terrorism can mean something else just because the english laws and language says so forgetting that this forum is open to opinions and views that are not based on english laws and language.

The problem here is that most are pointing out the same thing to you, but it appears you just won't see it.

So now, you turn on the English law and English language. Yet you communicate in English language to try and reclassify a crime that happens in an English land where English law prevails?  

Yeah I respect views and opinion, but then don't get sensitive when your opinions are challenged simply because they are just daft.  

As for referring you to your tribal language,i am trying to jolt you back to reality,maybe you will get a hint that terror and terrorism could mean something different other than what the english laws and language 'technically' says it is but because people like you as a result of inherent indoctrinations and imperialism that defines your life,your language is almost a thing of the past and you are therefore no more in the position to have the instinctive abilities to have your views or make decisions of what things might and could be,hence my reference to dolphine who by all the scientific evidences abound are more intuitively in-tuned to their own world,than an average african like you.They see the world in their own eyes and very much unlike you,whos theories and ethics of what the world is are based solely on the english man's views and laws.

Seriously, I am not following you. So you are still saying Dolphins are smarter than your average African or something?

So you managed to turn this into a race/tribe issue. LWKMD.

Can't you see you are silly?

Says a man who says Dolphins are more intelligent that Africans. Oh dear god, please save us from logic like this.  

No wonder Sauron ain't holding back on you.

Romeo4real:
This is not a valid argument. The Israelis choose to a civilian ship, not in their territory, and not breaking any law.

You appear to be saying they acted in self defence right? One of the principles of ROE. If so, the application of rules of engagement here will be flawed as each Mission may have a variant of these principles. That is what I'm saying. A civilian ship or not, look at the overall circumstances and background issues in relation to the incident. Do that and we may have a clearer picture.

Err, again, they did not "take on" the military, the military "took them on". There is a difference.

I am not sure if you saw the IDF video from the operation on the flotilla. Now, take that and then compare it to the video of the second ship. The difference is that the men on board the second ship complied and offered no resistance.

Offering resistance is signalling the will of wanting to take on someone. You know, like when the Police ask a car driver to put his hands where the officer can see, but refuses to do so. That is non-compliance and we have seen cases where this non-compliance have resulted in death of such drivers.

My point? They took on the military the instant they offered resistance. Armed resistance.

It is standard practice in a war zone, or against terrorist threats. It is also standard practice on a "kill" not "capture" mission -  which is what i am highlighting. It is certainly NOT standard practice against civilian vessels, carrying aid, with NO known terrorist threat aboard, in international waters, who have not broken any law - even Israeli law!

While I see your point, I do not think it is not clear cut like you are trying to push it across am afraid.  Not to dwell into lengthy debates, there were background issues that we cannot not just over look, in order to make a point. For example, There are well documented evidence that shows that Ambulance, Charities organisation and Aids agency have been used as front for smuggling weapons in the past.

I think from my point of view, I can see why the IDF will have a Zero tolerance approach to any perceived threat. And if this may include killing people, then so be it.

This is another story, but De Menezes was identified as a terrorist threat, who was "supposed" to be wearing  a suicide vest at the time. Even so, the Police have widely been acknowledged to have been heavy handed, as DeMenezes had not been clearly identified as the terrorist in question, nor was the issue of the suicide vest established. The issues in the flotilla case is even more glaring.

Not necessarily, but making a point that pumping bullets into the head of a threat is  nothing but a standard practice. As far as the Flotilla ship goes, it is a potential threat and perceived as one by the IDF given the history in that region.
Just because you do not see it as a threat, do not mean IDF is wrong. However, I will agree with the generation notion that there was a heavy handed approach.

- Ok, well let me elucidate you. Firstly, the standard IDF issued weaponry is the M16/M4 carbine or the COLT AR15 and its variants. These weapons fire NATO standard issue 5.56x45mm - 7.62mm ammo. ALL the rounds recovered from the bodies were 9mm. M16 Assault Rifle, it variants and the M4 Carbine do NOT fire 9mm rounds. This suggest the activists were killed by handguns. Incidentally, the Israeli standard issue handguns, a combination of Berrata's and Glocks can fire 9mm ammo.

If you want to make suggestions that these people were killed point blank [Probably in IDF custody??] A link to the actual autopsy report will be something I am interested in. As far as it stand, the media in the middle east are having a fun filled week, so pardon me if am asking you for sources to the actual pathology report.

As far as am concerned, this is at best speculation. 

What is clear is that the activists were killed with Israeli handguns, issued with "special" 9mm ammunition. The ammo was designed to be heavy, with enclosed pellets, so as to be undeformable against impact. This causes what is called "hydrostatic shock", and practically ensures a fatality. I hope this is clear.

As it stand, IDF have not denied the killings, but stressed it was in self defence. To suggest otherwise is again, nothing but speculation in my opinion.

Err no, In semi auto mode, and in the hands of a trained operator, the rounds will impact in a cluster. This is what you are trained to do. Some of the activists were shot all over the body, and one of them had a single gunshot wound to the back of the head.

Semi mode can be set to fire X amount of rounds or bullets. If it was set to SA and shot only two or three bullets per each trigger squeeze, then yeah there should be "clusters" of each "rounds". In the moment of chaos, the armed protesters could have been hit in different places. Who knows?



From what you have posted, I do not see anything that proves beyond reasonable doubt the things you are trying to push across. Let us have the pathology report, heck let us see pictures then that way, you may perhaps have a strong leg to stand on?

Also if the points you are trying to make are valid, then I expect more evidence to be made public from the Turkish government etc. Because as it stand, people will do anything to rid of Israeli at the moment.

Staying behind a screen to do "forensic analysis" is just that.    .    .   .  Staying behind a computer screen.

redsun:
You guys should open your clustered minds to see things on bigger perspectives

You guys?

Come on man, you are making a big deal of a minor matter. It is very simple, yet you make it hard for yourself. Can you not see as people have turned your logic into a joke?

Give it up already. Mr Derrick, do not fall into the classification of a terrorist. This have been explained to you in the simplest of all terms. Nah wah o.