₦airaland Forum

Temilenu:
Please shut your mouth you silly girl. If you don't know what to say just shut your mouth. I have been watching you on this forum going from thread to thread acting like you are the wisest person. You are very stupiid. What does someone like you know? You think this is romance section. I only pity your parents who raised a waste like you. Iranu.

wow. ...easy man. Did she steal your thing to deserve this harsh comment?. She asked legitimate questions. Na wa ooo.

Oops! I posted this in a wrong thread. It should have been here. https://www.nairaland.com/2808716/tell-us-what-think-salatul/3

^ lol, and other than 5 daily salat, is there any religious activities you do besides Juma'a?

Ramadan, zakat and Haj are once a year. What else do you do during the 12 months period?

That dragnet and salafis at large are against group dhikr, and the forms of dhikr mentioned in those ahadith. Go and confirm from them. There debates on group dhikr being questionable by the salafis on Youtube.

A gathering has to be titled something isn't?

Even Mawlud is not done once a yr. Some do it several times a yr to avoid criticism "why only mawlud day they lecture on seerat, dhikr etc"

So there is no verse of Quran nor hadith that forbids mawlud. Bring it on if you have one. I am not even done yet. There ahadith showing rosul(saw) slaughtering sheep showing gratitude to Allah. The hadith is used by those who celebrate mawlud as well. I haven't even talk about that yet. And to be honest, there isnt anything in Quran or hadith with this phrase:

"My Ummah shall celebrate mawlud". It is just a supererogatory act borne out innocent idea. A mere gatherings.

Lukmann:
The reference are saheeh muslim (kitab us salah) and sunan at-tirmidhi.moreover,u cnt just pick d clock and set it to ur desired time..the prophet gave us direction

See, i kuku understood what you saying. I dont have issues with either clock or tasbeeh.

Lukmann:
the tasbeeh n clock watch are different cases .for those who dnt know check to check d time of salat using wah d prophet prescribed u can use d clock based on the calculation of a more knowlegeable person..Allah knows best

I'm talking about artificial clock that you hang on the wall and where is that reference?.

In my opinion, they perform similar function. Both are devices aim to achieve goals.

klassnic:
Is it still available and where is your location?

Car located in portacort

Lukmann:
@EMPI.REE first of all the hadIth of tirmidhi made it explicit by saying 'the tips' of the fingers .As to if i can use my fingers to count subhanallah 100x i cn boldly tell you dats wah i do.i count wiv my fingers..u cant even call these sunnah taqreeyah bcus during the time of the prophet as narrated by sa'd bin abi waqqas the prophet pointed out to a woman the preference of using the fingers and as u know in fiqh sunnah qawliyyah takes precedence ova faeliyyah n taqreeyah hence his statement abt using the tips of the fingers takes precedence .i would hv mentioned loads of daleel for u but i've forgotten where the sources are..in the words of the poet"all goodness is in following that which went before .all badness is in the innovations of those who came after. . .and Allah knows best

Good for you if you are able to achieve that. But to call tasbeeh BIDAH is absurd. It is not. With over 90% of muslims using it. It is sold every at islamic stores. Are you saying they are all misguided? all these centuries?. If it's easy for you to count 100 dhikr with tips of your fingers, it may not for others.

Allah said in AYAT al-Baqarah 2:286

"Allah does not impose upon any soul a duty but to the extent of its ability;"


If tasbeeh is bida'a, then clock-watch for salat time is bida'a, yes or no?. They perform similar function.

So dragnet, basically you show enmity toward sufis who do lots of dhikr in whatever forms as indicated in ahadith i quoted up there. Now, read this hadith.


On the authority of Abu Hurayra(may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the messanger of Allah (saw) said:

Allah(mighty and sublime to He) said: Whosoever shows enmity to someone devoted to Me, I shall be at war with him. My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him., and My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I shall love him. When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, with seeing with which he sees, hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask (something) of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it. I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about (seizing) the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him. It was ralated by al-Bukhari

Another ahadith states:


عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رضي الله عنه، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم، قَالَ: إِنَّ لِلَّهِ تَبَارَكَ وَتَعَالَى مَلَائِكَةً سَيَّارَةً فُضُلًا يَتَتَبَّعُونَ مَجَالِسَ الذِّكْرِ، فَإِذَا وَجَدُوا مَجْلِسًا فِيهِ ذِكْرٌ، قَعَدُوا مَعَهُمْ وَحَفَّ بَعْضُهُمْ بَعْضًا بِأَجْنِحَتِهِمْ، حَتَّى يَمْلَئُوا مَا بَيْنَهُمْ وَبَيْنَ السَّمَاءِ الدُّنْيَا

Translation: According to Abu Huraira the Holy Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, “There are many angels of Allah (SWT), besides those assigned with normal tasks, who travel around looking for remembrance sessions. When they find such a session where remembrance of Allah is in progress, they sit with them and some angels cover the others with their wings ascending one above another until the space between the earth and the lowest heaven gets filled….”

References:
► Muslim, as-Sahih (4:2069#2689)
► Ahmad bin Hambal, al-Musnad (2:252#7420)
► Ahmad bin Hambal, al-Musnad (2:382#8960)
► Mundhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (2:259#2316)
► Mundhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (4:244#5523)




Hadith #10

عَنْ أَنَسٍ رضي الله عنه عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم قَالَ: إِنَّ لِلهِ سَيَّارَةً مِنَ الْمَلَائِكَةِ يَطْلُبُوْنَ حِلَقَ الذِّكْرِ. فَإِذَا حَفَوا عَلَيْهِمْ وَأَتَوْا بِهِمْ، ثُمَّ بَعَثُوا رَائِدَهُم إِلَى السَّمَاءِ إِلَى رَبِّ الْعِزَّةِ تَبَارَكَ وَتَعَالَى

Translation: Anas (رضی اللہ عنہ) narrates from the Holy Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) that he said, “Some angels of Allah (SWT) remain wandering in search of remembrance circles. When the angels come to them, they cover those people and then send their leader to the heavens in the Divine Presence….

Reference:
Haythami, Majma-uz-zawaid (10:77)



Allah (SWT) asks angels about His Dhikr doers.


Hadith #11

عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ أَوْ عَنْ أَبِي سَعِيدٍ الْخُدْرِيِّ رضي الله عنهما قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم: إِنَّ لِلَّهِ مَلَائِكَةً سَيَّاحِينَ فِي الْأَرْضِ فُضُلًا عَنْ كُتَّابِ النَّاسِ، فَإِذَا وَجَدُوا أَقْوَامًا يَذْكُرُونَ اللَّهَ تَنَادَوْا هَلُمُّوا إِلَى بُغْيَتِكُمْ. فَيَجِيئُونَ فَيَحُفُّونَ بِهِمْ إِلَى السَّمَاءِ الدُّنْيَا، فَيَقُولُ اللَّهُ: عَلَى أَيِّ شَيْءٍ تَرَكْتُمْ عِبَادِي يَصْنَعُونَ؟ فَيَقُولُونَ: تَرَكْنَاهُمْ يَحْمَدُونَكَ وَيُمَجِّدُونَكَ وَيَذْكُرُونَكَ. قَالَ: فَيَقُولُ: فَهَلْ رَأَوْنِي؟ فَيَقُولُونَ: لَا. قَالَ: فَيَقُولُ: فَكَيْفَ لَوْ رَأَوْنِي؟ قَالَ: فَيَقُولُونَ: لَوْ رَأَوْكَ لَكَانُوا أَشَدَّ تَحْمِيدًا وَأَشَدَّ تَمْجِيدًا وَأَشَدَّ لَكَ ذِكْرًا. قَالَ: فَيَقُولُ: وَأَيُّ شَيْءٍ يَطْلُبُونَ؟ قَالَ: فَيَقُولُونَ: يَطْلُبُونَ الْجَنَّةَ. قَالَ: فَيَقُولُ: وَهَلْ رَأَوْهَا؟ قَالَ: فَيَقُولُونَ: لَا. قَالَ: فَيَقُولُ: فَكَيْفَ لَوْ رَأَوْهَا؟ قَالَ: فَيَقُولُونَ: لَوْ رَأَوْهَا لَكَانُوا أَشَدَّ لَهَا طَلَبًا وَأَشَدَّ عَلَيْهَا حِرْصًا. قَالَ: فَيَقُولُ: فَمِنْ أَيِّ شَيْءٍ يَتَعَوَّذُونَ؟ قَالُوا: يَتَعَوَّذُونَ مِنْ النَّارِ. قَالَ: فَيَقُولُ: هَلْ رَأَوْهَا؟ فَيَقُولُونَ: لَا. فَيَقُولُ: فَكَيْفَ لَوْ رَأَوْهَا؟ فَيَقُولُونَ: لَوْ رَأَوْهَا لَكَانُوا أَشَدَّ مِنْهَا هَرَبًا وَأَشَدَّ مِنْهَا خَوْفًا وَأَشَدَّ مِنْهَا تَعَوُّذًا. قَالَ: فَيَقُولُ: فَإِنِّي أُشْهِدُكُمْ أَنِّي قَدْ غَفَرْتُ لَهُمْ. فَيَقُولُونَ: إِنَّ فِيهِمْ فُلَانًا الْخَطَّاءَ لَمْ يُرِدْهُمْ، إِنَّمَا جَاءَهُمْ لِحَاجَةٍ. فَيَقُولُ: هُمْ الْقَوْمُ لَا يَشْقَى لَهُمْ جَلِيسٌ

Translation: Abu Huraira or Abu Saeed Khudri (رضی اللہ عنھما) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, “There are many angels of Allah (SWT), other than the ones who record deeds, who wander around on earth. When they find some people performing remembrance of Allah (SWT), they call other angels, saying, ‘Come to what you are looking for.’ So they come and cover those people up to the lowest heaven. Then Allah (SWT) says, ‘What were My servants doing when you left them?’ The angels say, ‘O Lord, we left them praising You, magnifying You and remembering You.’ Allah (SWT) says, ‘Have they seen Me?’ They reply, ‘No.’” The Messenger of Allah (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, “Allah (SWT) says, ‘What would have been their condition if they had seen Me?’ They say, ‘If they had seen You, they would have praised You, magnified You and remembered You far more.’ Allah (SWT) says, ‘What are they asking for?’ They reply, ‘They are asking You for Paradise.’ He says, ‘Have they seen it?’ They reply, ‘No.’ He says, ‘What would have been their state if they had seen it?’ They reply, ‘If they had seen it, they would have asked for it more intensely and desired it more earnestly.’ Allah says, ‘What are they seeking My protection from?’ The angels say, ‘They are seeking Your protection from the Fire.’ Allah (SWT) says, ‘Have they seen it?’ They reply, ‘No.’ Allah (SWT) says, ‘What would have been their condition if they had seen it?’ They reply, ‘If they had seen it, they would have fled from it, feared it and sought Your refuge from it even more intensely.’ Allah says, ‘Then bear witness that I have forgiven them.’ They say, ‘There is so and so a great sinner among them; he came only for his personal interest and not to join in remembrance.’ Allah (SWT) says, ‘These are such people that even their companion is not left destitute and unfortunate.’”

Reference:
Tirmidhi, al-Jami-us-sahih (5:579#3600)


Allahu Akbar! what a wonderful hadith the last one. I heard this last hadith first quoted by Sheikh Daud Alfa Nla in a Mawlud against those who oppose it.

Their headings can be whatever it is, Mawlud nabi or not, Quran competition or not. So long as the content or their acts are within the Sharia, it is Sunnah.

Angels search streets/roads for Dhikr gatherings.


Hadith #4


عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رضي الله عنه قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم: إِنَّ لِلَّهِ مَلَائِكَةً يَطُوفُونَ فِي الطُّرُقِ، يَلْتَمِسُونَ أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ، فَإِذَا وَجَدُوا قَوْمًا يَذْكُرُونَ اللَّهَ تَنَادَوْا، هَلُمُّوا إِلَى حَاجَتِكُمْ

Translation: Abu Huraira (رضی اللہ عنہ) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, “Allah has angels who roam about on roads looking for the love-sick rememberers of Allah. When they find such people, they call out other angels: ‘Come here to your coveted aspiration….’”

References:
► Bukhari, as-Sahih (5:2353#6045)
► Ibn Hibban, as-Sahih (3:139#857)
► Bayhaqi, Shuab-ul-iman (1:399#531)
► Ibn Rajab, Jami-ul-ulum wal-hikam (1:345)
► Mundhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (2:258#2316)




Hadith #5

عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رضي الله عنه، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم، قَالَ: إِنَّ لِلَّهِ تَبَارَكَ وَتَعَالَى مَلَائِكَةً سَيَّارَةً فُضُلًا يَتَتَبَّعُونَ مَجَالِسَ الذِّكْرِ، فَإِذَا وَجَدُوا مَجْلِسًا فِيهِ ذِكْرٌ، قَعَدُوا مَعَهُمْ

Translation: Abu Huraira (رضی اللہ عنہ) narrates that the Holy Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, “Surely there are some angels of Allah (SWT) who conduct patrolling in search of remembrance assemblies (A: Majalis al-Dhikr - this proves Group dhikr gatherings held by Sufis). When they find such an assembly, they join and sit with them…”

References:
► Muslim, as-Sahih (4:2069#2689)
► Ahmad bin Hambal, al-Musnad (2:25#7420)
► Ahmad bin Hambal, al-Musnad (2:382#8960)
► Mundhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (2:259#2316)
► Mundhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (4:244#5523)



Hadith #6

عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رضي الله عنه أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللهِ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم قَالَ: إِنَّ لِلهِ مَلَائِكَةً سَيَّارَةً وَفُضُلاَءَ يَلْتَمِسُونَ مَجَالِسَ الذِّكْرِ فِي الْأَرْضِ

Translation: Abu Huraira narrates (رضی اللہ عنہ) that the Messenger of Allah (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, “There are angels of Allah (SWT), besides those assigned with usual tasks, who travel round the globe (with a particular aim) and keep looking for remembrance sittings (A: Majalis al-Dhikr - this proves Group dhikr gatherings held by Sufis)..”

Reference:
Hakim, al-Mustadrak (1:672#1821)



Angels cover remembrance assemblies of Allah with their wings

Hadith #7

عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ وَأَبِي سَعِيدٍ الْخُدْرِيِّ رضي الله عنهما أَنَّهُمَا شَهِدَا عَلَى النَّبِيِّ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم أَنَّهُ قَالَ: لَا يَقْعُدُ قَوْمٌ يَذْكُرُونَ اللَّهَ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ إِلَّا حَفَّتْهُمْ الْمَلَائِكَةُ، وَغَشِيَتْهُمْ الرَّحْمَةُ، وَنَزَلَتْ عَلَيْهِمْ السَّكِينَةُ، وَذَكَرَهُمْ اللَّهُ فِيمَنْ عِنْدَهُ

Translation: Abu Huraira (رضی اللہ عنہ) and Abu Saeed Khudri (رضی اللہ عنہ) narrate that they visited the Holy Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) and he said, “Whenever people sit to remember Allah (SWT), angels cover them (spreading their wings over them) and divine mercy envelops them; inner peace descends on them and Allah (SWT) mentions them to those who are with Him.”

References:
► Muslim, as-Sahih (4:2074#2700)
► Tirmidhi, al-Jami-us-sahih (5:459#3378)
► Ibn Majah, as-Sunan (2:1245#3791)
► Ibn Abi Shaybah, al-Musannaf (6:60#29475)
► Tabarani, al-Mujam-ul-awsat (2:137#1500)
► Ahmad bin Hambal, al-Musnad (3:92#11893)
► Tayalisi, al-Musnad (1:296#2233)
► Tayalisi, al-Musnad (1:314#2386)
► Abu Yala, al-Musnad (2:444#1252)
► Abu Yala, al-Musnad (11:20#6159)

So dragnet, how dare you said even if they chant SHAHADAH during mawlud, it is not sunnah and not rewardable?. See, in my opinion,

Salafiyah is mathematics. Sufiyah is further math

Salafiyah is English. Sufiyah is English literature

You understand my analogy?

Now concerning their gathering doing dhikr, dragnet condemns this act to be innovation and blameworthy act.

Allah (SWT) expresses His pride upon Dhakireen in front of angels, and it is recommended to make gatherings of Dhikr unlike some people who consider gathering for dhikr as Bidah (Naudhobillah)

Even if they name the heading "Mawlud Nabi", the content is khayr. You are not Allah to determine it's crappy. Clearly your understanding of the deen is very narrow and rigid. Doing Dikhr is nawafil and 'shariatic' as well. Gathering or not. It is act that evolves and flexible.


Sheik Adam Al-Ilory said:

"And I am a salafi as long as salafiyya refers to holding to the Sacred Law with practices based on what is flexible and evolving rather than that which is rigid and narrow."


Hadith #3


عَنْ أَبِي سَعِيدٍ الْخُدْرِيِّ رضي الله عنه قَالَ: خَرَجَ مُعَاوِيَةُ عَلَى حَلْقَةٍ فِي الْمَسْجِدِ، فَقَالَ: ... إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم خَرَجَ عَلَى حَلْقَةٍ مِنْ أَصْحَابِهِ، فَقَالَ: مَا أَجْلَسَكُمْ؟ قَالُوا: جَلَسْنَا نَذْكُرُ اللَّهَ وَنَحْمَدُهُ عَلَى مَا هَدَانَا لِلْإِسْلَامِ، وَمَنَّ بِهِ عَلَيْنَا. قَالَ: آللَّهِ مَا أَجْلَسَكُمْ إِلَّا ذَاكَ؟ قَالُوا: وَاللَّهِ مَا أَجْلَسَنَا إِلَّا ذَاكَ. قَالَ: أَمَا إِنِّي لَمْ أَسْتَحْلِفْكُمْ تُهْمَةً لَكُمْ، وَلَكِنَّهُ أَتَانِي جِبْرِيلُ، فَأَخْبَرَنِي أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ يُبَاهِي بِكُمُ الْمَلَائِكَةَ


Translation: Abu Saeed Khudri (رضی اللہ عنہ) narrates that Muawiyah (رضی اللہ عنہ) came to a group of people in the mosque and said, “… The Messenger of Allah (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) came to a group of his Companions in the mosque and said, ‘Why are you sitting?’ They said, ‘We are sitting remembering Allah and paying our thanks to Him for His favour of guiding us to Islam.’ The Holy Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, ‘Do you say that on oath that is what has made you sit here?’ They submitted, ‘By Allah we are sitting here only for this purpose.’ The Holy Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, ‘I have not made you take oath for any doubt but the thruth is that Gabriel came and told me that Allah is expressing His pride on you in front of angels.’”

References

►Muslim, as-Sahih (4:2075#2701)
►Tirmidhi, as-Sunan (5:460#3379)
►Nasai, as-Sunan (8:249#5426)
►Ahmad bin Hambal, al-Musnad (4:92)
►Ibn Hibban, as-Sahih (3:95#813)
►Ibn Abi Shaybah, al-Musannaf (6:59#29469)
►Tabarani, al-Mujam-ul-kabir (19:311#701)
►Mindhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (2:259#2317)


So Sheikh Dragnet, you are just one step away from calling Sufi mad people instead of "crap".

Bismillah rahman rahim

I notice this brother and co do not understand what it means by Nofilat/Nowafil i:e supererogatory act of worship. Nofilat does not only mean rakat. It also means dua, making dua/dhikr, selecting dua from Quran or hadith. We do not need specific order for supererogatory acts except where it's absolutely necessary.

Obligatory salat, Ramadan, Zakat and Haj are specific orders under وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِحَبْلِ اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا Imran 103. These obligatory are different from supererogatory. Quran and hadith back up supererogatory acts:


يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اذْكُرُوا اللَّهَ ذِكْرًا كَثِيرًا (O you who Believe, make abundant remembrance of ALLAH!" (33:41)

In Tafsir of this verse Imam al-Qurtubi (rah) mentions the hadith:

وروى أبو سعيد عن النبيّ صلى الله عليه وسلّم: «أكثروا ذكر الله حتى يقولوا مجنون

Translation: Abu Sa'eed al Khudri (ra) narrates from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) who said: Do Dhikr so much that people start calling you Majnoon (mad) [Tafsir ul Qurtubi, Volume No. 14, Page No. 197]

This hadith is narrated in Musnad Ahmed (3/67, 81). Ibn Hibban in his “SAHIHA” (#814). Imam al-Hakim in his Mustadrak ala Sahihayn (1/499)

Imam al-Mundhiri (rah) after narrating it said:

رواه أحمد وأبو يعلى وابن حبان في صحيحه، والحاكم وقال: صحيح الإسناد.

Translation: It is narrated by Ahmed, Abu Ya'la, Ibn Hibban in his "SAHIHA" and al-Hakim after narrating it (Mustadrak 1/499) said: It has a “SAHIH CHAIN” [at-Targheeb wa Tarheeb, Page No. 280, Published by Dar ul Kitaab al Arabi, Beirut, Lebanon]
Imam Ibn Adi (rah) said:

بهذا الإسناد فليس به باس


Translation: This sanad has "NOTHING WRONG IN IT" [Al-Kamil, Volume No. 4, Page No, 9]

Imam Ibn Kathir (rah) also narrated it in his Tafsir al Quran al Azim and he also showed another hadith:


ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلّم: اذكروا الله ذكراً كثيراً حتى يقول المنافقون إِنكم تراؤون


Translation: Narrated by Ibn Abbas (ra) who said that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said: Remember Allah in abundance to the extent that Munafiqeen say that you are showing off [Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Volume No. 6, Page No. 384]

dragnet:
even if they're chanting just a shahaada, as long as it's on Eid mawlud or mawlid or whatever crappy name given to the innovation which has no basis in the Shari'a, it's null & void. and you haven't been able to cite just one link to the Shari'a even a weak athar can't be found to support the misguidance.

Dragnet accused them of doing crazy "crappy" practices. He wages his mini war on alhusunnah wajamah calling them "crappy". So the hadith above said people like that are hypocrites.

[size=15pt]"[/size] We know that Salafis shall as usual call this hadith "Da'eef" and in research we came across Hukm of Shaykh Shu'ayb al Arna'oot who also erred by calling it Da'eef in his Tehqeeq of Musnad Ahmed bin Hanbal. In reality this hadith is sound due to the fact that many Muhaditheen authenticated it, secondly It has come with different routes like we presented above the hadith from Ibn Abbas (RA) with a slightly different wording but a totally different chain of narrators (thus making Asaneed as "Hasan" due to corroborating chains). These proofs refute our dear friends called Salafis, who bash the gatherings of Sufis where they do loud dhikr in Hadhra (sufi gatherings of raqs and dhikr) in Arab world, rather the accusers are proven to be Munafiqeen because they call Sufis as mad men (Naudhobillah). What they forget is that we are proud to be called as mad men when hadiths prove us as great followers of Sunnah.[size=15pt]"[/size]



There is also no restriction of doing Dhikr alone or only by sitting down, we can stand up and do Dhikr or send Salawat on Prophet (Peace be upon him).


Qur'an states:

[size=13pt]الَّذِينَ يَذْكُرُونَ اللَّهَ قِيَامًا وَقُعُودًا وَعَلَىٰ جُنُوبِهِمْ[/size] وَيَتَفَكَّرُونَ فِي خَلْقِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ رَبَّنَا مَا خَلَقْتَ هَٰذَا بَاطِلًا سُبْحَانَكَ فَقِنَا عَذَابَ النَّارِ


Translation: [size=13pt]Who remember Allah while "STANDING" or sitting or [lying] on their sides[/size] and give thought to the creation of the heavens and the earth, [saying], "Our Lord, You did not create this aimlessly; exalted are You [above such a thing]; then protect us from the punishment of the Fire. (al-Qur'an 3:191)


Qur’an states:

فِي بُيُوتٍ أَذِنَ اللَّهُ أَن تُرْفَعَ وَيُذْكَرَ فِيهَا اسْمُهُ يُسَبِّحُ لَهُ فِيهَا بِالْغُدُوِّ وَالْآصَالِ

رِجَالٌ لَّا تُلْهِيهِمْ تِجَارَةٌ وَلَا بَيْعٌ عَن ذِكْرِ اللَّهِ وَإِقَامِ الصَّلَاةِ وَإِيتَاءِ الزَّكَاةِ ۙ يَخَافُونَ يَوْمًا تَتَقَلَّبُ فِيهِ الْقُلُوبُ وَالْأَبْصَارُ


Translation: In houses which Allah has permitted to be exalted and that His name may be remembered in them; there glorify Him therein in the mornings and the evenings. Men whom neither merchandise nor selling diverts from the remembrance of Allah and the keeping up of prayer and the giving of poor-rate; they fear a day in which the hearts and eyes shall turn about [al-Qur’an 24:36-37]


These verses prove doing Dhikr in “HOUSES” and that too collective dhikr. The first verse is not only restricted to mosques as falsely asserted by some people, rather the wording used in Qur’an is “FI BUYUTINN” meaning houses in general (including mosques)


We only see the Sufis following these glorious verses of Qur’an whereas the Salafis restrict this Dhikr to Salaat only This is their wrong reasoning because the verses clearly distinguish between Salaat and Dhikr itself. It states: “ذِكْرِ اللَّهِ و إِقَامِ الصَّلَاةِ” Allah Himself distinguishes between Dhikr and Standing for prayer by putting a “WA (AND)” in-between the two..




One who remembers Allah (SWT) is alive and one who does not is dead

Hadith #1

عَنْ أَبِي مُوسَى رضي الله عنه قَالَ: قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم: مَثَلُ الَّذِي يَذْكُرُ رَبَّهُ وَالَّذِي لَا يَذْكُرُ رَبَّهُ مَثَلُ الْحَيِّ وَالْمَيِّتِ

Translation: Abu Musa (رضی اللہ عنہ) narrates that the Holy Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, “He who remembers his Lord and he who does not are like the living and the dead.”

References

► Bukhari, as-Sahih (5:2353#6044)

► Mundhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (2:256#2303)

► Asqalani, Fath-ul-bari (11:210#6044)


Hadith #2

عَنْ أَبِي مُوسَى رضي الله عنه عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم قَالَ: مَثَلُ الْبَيْتِ الَّذِي يُذْكَرُ اللَّهُ فِيهِ وَالْبَيْتِ الَّذِي لَا يُذْكَرُ اللَّهُ فِيهِ مَثَلُ الْحَيِّ وَالْمَيِّتِ

Translation: Abu Musa (رضی اللہ عنہ) narrates that the Holy Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, “The house in which Allah (SWT) is remembered and the one in which Allah (SWT) is not remembered are like the living and the dead.”

References

► Muslim, as-Sahih (1:539#779)
► Ibn Hibban, as-Sahih (3:135#854)
► Abu Yala, al-Musnad (13:291#7306)
► Ruyani, al-Musnad (1:317#473)
► Abu Nuaym, al-Musnad-ul-mustakhraj ala as-Sahih Muslim (2:372#1771)
► Daylami, al-Firdaw bima thur al-khitab (4:143#6442)
► Bayhaqi, Shuab-ul-iman (1:401#536)
► Mundhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (1:170#635)
► Nawawi, Sharh Sahih Muslim (6:68)
► Mubarakpuri, Tuhfat-ul-ahwadhi (2:437)

They can do dhikr under any title they deem fit. It is sad when you (dragnet) said even if they said shahadah countless times in mawlud, it's still innovation and not rewarding. Thats your understanding, sir.

dragnet:
you're asking me if they sing on mawlud? are you for real? I don't have to narrate my personal experience to you. I wasn't born into the sunnah or the salafiyyah path. I was schooled by the sufi, tijaniyyah to be precise. So you don't have to beautify the atrocities they commit. I grew up witnessing most, live witnessing. Oh, and you'll say theirs is different abi? Of course there'll be variations and nobody to checkmate them when there's no shar'i guidance behind it, it'll be subject to human whims & caprices. so please spare me.

I am sorry. That they sing, is any problem with that?. Saudi muftis in the video I posted elsewhere earlier showing them dancing to beats and singing, is anything wrong with that?.

First, majority of Muslims in nija till date have been sufi. That says a lot. They cant all be wrong these decades. And you cant just be the only Mr. right in 21st century. I never said they dont sing. Be precise the kind of 'song' i posted. Just be honest for a second. If they sing, it gotta be "qusida burda" not some christian hymns which is worldwide Muslim thing. Any problem with that?. I agree that there may be some odd practices among them. I grew up as a private person. We were never allowed to mingle or go to join any factions. We do dhikr in our own home. So i cant possibly defend particular individual or group at length. I only understood their essence which is what i defend here.

even if they're chanting just a shahaada, as long as it's on Eid mawlud or mawlid or whatever crappy name given to the innovation which has no basis in the Shari'a, it's null & void. and you haven't been able to cite just one link to the Shari'a even a weak athar can't be found to support the misguidance.

Bimgo! I have known and suspected @underlined was your concern I am going to quote this statement of yours again when time comes. You brothers dont understand stuff at all. Geez!

And no, it's not null and void. Thats your opinion. I will return here in sha Allah to back that up with Quran wa Sunnah.

Lukmann:
@EMP.IREE i dont think u get d danger in replacing a sunnah with bida'a..

How does tasbeeh replaces fingers?. How is that bida'a?. You said

Lukmann:
there is ikhtilaf among scholar concernin d use of d subha as to whether its bida'a but there is "almost" ijma'a on it being makruh.ibn taymiyyah in al fatawa says its makruh shayk uthaymeen in al-liqa al maftooh says d same but albani in silsilatul al da'eefah says its bida'a

So if it's a matter of ikhtilaf(disagreement) amongst scholars, then it can not be definitive bida'a just becus Albani said so. So far, he's the only one that said it's bida'a. Now, does the tasbeeh move by itself?. Isnt the same fingers that count them?. And by 99.99% guarantee both fingers contract each other. I think you brothers are too literal.

Now, here is common sense to apply. There are ahadith about reciting a dhikr 100x.



1. Whoever reads Subhanallah 100 times in the morning and 100 times in the evening, will get the reward equal to that person who has performed 100 Hajj.

2. Whoever reads Alhamdulillah 100 times -will be rewarded as though he has participated in 100 Jihads.

Both virtues are recorded by Imam Tirmidhi (rahimahullah) in his sunan, hadith: 3741.

Imam Tirmidhi has graded the Hadith sound (hasan).

Note: The correct translation for second virtue is as follows:

‘Whoever reads Alhamdulillah 100 times in the morning and the evening – will be rewarded as if he has donated 100 horses in the path of Allah.


My question is, since only fingers is the sunnah according to you, can you recite mentioned dhikr by your fingers 100 times without suffering daydream or losing counts?. Be sincere.

even if u say d companions used d subha was there any record of it being approved by the prophet?

Was there a record it was frowned upon by the prophet?. If no, this means "silent approval". I notice salafi shuyuk in nija are not object to using tasbeeh. It's very simple brothers.

major companions like ibn abass and co prohibited d use of anything oda dan the use of the hands.

Using your logic just now, you said:

moreover the msg of islam was sent to muhammad (saw) not the companions.sometimes myt act based on not hearing some statements of d prophet.

You negate one thing but subtle on the other. So Ibn Abass and co arent prophet either. They arent in position to approve or disapprove the use of it. Only the prophet by your logic.

Some souls (christians) will lose faith in this thread today

In another word, you disagree or its bida'a still even if it's dhikr and benefitial lectures they do during mawlud ?.

The hadith you cited was explained many times by scholars posted by some brothers on NL in several threads. It does seem that you don't care about the content even if it's base on Qur'an and sunnah. You seem to worry so much about the heading "mawlud nabi".

Are they singing during mawlud "happy birthday to you muhammad....happy birthday to you. We wish you many happy returns"?. Nonsense!

I have told you to watch the clips but you refused cus there is no way you can find blame worthy practices within....that's why. Looks like bcus I eschewed quotations you assumed I don't know what I'm talking about. Very well then, let me get back on my pc, in sha Allah, you shall see.

Salafis are lazy people as alleged by a brother sometimes ago.

abuhubaidah:
May Allah guide @empi.ree..he just use his rayuu on everything..I will always advice you to go back to modrasa

ameen oooo oooo Eledumare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLmzsXqYqxk

^ I thought a guy just got paid millions of $$ for being polymath recently, no?

Nice one op there though @op.

abu again? . This is a century old debate. It will continue after us

There isnt anything clearly in neither Quran nor hadith that forbids mawlud either.

But i understand 'proof' that it wasnt done by earlier predecessors. That isnt enough to trash it.

I dont want to post some of the evidences i read from those who do mawlud. I'd rather left that assignment for you.

Fact is, if you dont celebrate it, fine. But if you show up uninvited and start screaming about "it's bida'a and shirk", they need to to drag you out of the arena

I also understand that are freaking xtreme folks among them. I dont pay them no mind. Leave the people alone. Some nominal Muslims only hold on to activities like this in Islam. Leave them. Dont chase them away. Gradually they will be practicing Muslims. Knowledge is one thing, wisdom is another.

Hey mr abu, the video is not evidence of anything. It is rather for you to watch and let me know what is shirk and bida'a in there. That's all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J99f5u86bk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi6maMj7jL4

Please just stop. This mechanical allegations of yours is very boring. And the claim that solati fatih is more virtuous than the Quran is very incorrect and misunderstood. I'd to go through various Tijjaniya and other websites and even talked to them few days ago. That phrase was explained better.

They called it (solati fatih is more virtuous than the Quran) "nonsense!...nothing is greater than Quran." Thats another crappy misinformation spread around. Yes, it does seem confusing the way the statement is worded but after talking to them, it was made simple. They even backed it up with ahadith. I am not going to post their responses on this matter here. DO IT YOURSELF

As for 'stop where sahaba stopped', Islam hasnt changed from what they practiced. In those days muslim population was not like this....so definitely the there has to be activities ( that evolve) within Sharia and that also promote Islam. If some peeps are doing something unspeakable within has nothing to do with essence.

Very simple. After you conserved your energy finish abeg, come back to work

Lol.....I already watched it. Whats the point of gathering evidence from the video and post it?. It's better you watch from A-Z yourself. Your just being lazy, thats all

As for Quranic competition, oh well, I have no problem with it but kindly ask your buddy, kenny or fundamentalist. Either of them said it's bida'a. And that's not even sufi thing. It's entire ummah. Help yourself pal.

DeathStroke007:
I have been expecting you to say that...

what makes music a music.. lyrics and beat..

but that salawa is only just vocal works.. no string of beat or drums


it's said that beat, drums originated from shaytan..








I would be grateful if you could give me link to download lots of Islamic vocal stuffs like that

Oh well, some other muslims may disagree with you. But i have no issue with it. Anyway, the link up there was first compiled by Maher Zain, i believe. Click the link below for series of his music.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Maher+Zain

And if you need to download on your pc, you may use www.keepvid.com



Maher Zain - Ya Nabi Salam Alayka (Arabic) | ماهر زين - يا نبي سلام عليك | Official Music Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqfy4ScRXFQ

ShaheedBinAliyu:
to me... it's a very bad thing to recite. . it's source is filthy

Empiree:
How's that?. Solat fathi is in the Quran

pathways:
where in the Qur'an?

dragnet:
it is misguidance upon misguidance.
both the narrator & the reciters should beware of Allaah's anger.

This was gleaned from thier literature:


EVIDENCE OF SALATIL FATIH IN THE QUR'AN

Salatil Fatih: "Oh Allah, bless our leader Muhammad the opener of the closed" ٌ

The Qur'an: O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Now has come to you Our Messenger (Muhammad SAW) making (things) clear unto you, after a break in (the series of) Messengers, lest you say: "There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner." But now has come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner. And Allah is Able to do all things. (5 : 19)

Salatil Fatih: "The seal of what has passed"
The Qur'an: "Muhammad was not the father of any of you men, but a messenger of Allah and seal of the (past) Prophets..." (33:40)

Salatil Fatih: "The helper of truth with truth"
The Qur'an: "But the Messenger and those who have faith together with him, strive with their wealth and life" (in the path of Allah) (9:88)

Salatil Fatih: "The guide to the perfection"
The Qur'an: "And for sure, you guide to the path that is perfectly straight" (42:52)

Salatil Fatih: "And also unto his household, (The blessing should be) of equivalent magnitude to his status, and his status is tremendously great."
The Qur'an: "Indeed the blessings of Allah on you are tremendously great."
(68:4)

DeathStroke007:
lol... but the music sweet

Lol, but you and same type of people said music is haram.

^ Here, help yourself. It is only 10 mins per clip of 5 clips. Watch it and tell me what's against Sharia therein. If however, you disagree, you will have to defend "Quranic competition" after primary madrasa. Is that specifically mentioned in the Quran and sunnah?. Answer is no. Is sunnatic? Yes. So how did they come about it?. Answer is left for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_4rfP7SIp0