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Islam › Re: Why I Should Take A Second Wife! by Empiree: 6:44am On Mar 13, 2015

maclatunji:
Bowed to pressure? This has always being my stance on the issue, the only reason why I debate polygamy with ladies like Justfollowit is that they try to lampoon it and make it look bad. This I will never support, that doesn't mean I will practice it.

i understand

Islam › Re: Christians (evangelism) And Their Deceptions by Empiree(op): 5:39am On Mar 13, 2015

Part 2: The Bible

Another misunderstanding Muslims often fall into concerns the Bible. Christian missionaries in almost every discussion of the Qur'an assert that the Qur'an asks Muslims to believe in the Bible as a revelation of God. Many Muslims tend to fall into this trap by saying that "we believe in the Bible as revealed book." Once the Muslim accepts this fact, the evangelist can point out that the Bible contradicts the Qur'an and that since the Bible has precedence over the Qur'an and since Muslims are required to believe in it, it therefore logically follows that the Bible is right and the Quran is
wrong. But the Qur'an says no such thing. There is no reference to the Bible in the Qur'an whatsoever. The Qur'an mentions the Taurat (Old Testament) and the Injil (New Testament). The
Taurat is the book given to prophet Moses. This is the equivalent of the Torah/Pentateuch of the Jews and Christians, since much of it was not written by prophet Moses. And the Taurat is definitely not the Old Testament since the OT includes dozens of books attributed to other prophets before Jesus. The Injil is translated as the Gospel revealed to prophet Jesus. This is not the New Testament. The New Testament is a collection of 4 biographies of Christ, 27 epistles of St. Paul, and other books on the lives and adventures on the followers of Christ. There is no record of a book revealed to Jesus. Perhaps the closest to it are the words of Jesus himself, which constitutes less than 10% of the NT. Therefore to say that Christians changed the Bible is an inaccurate
statement, and can cause trouble in a discussion, because the Christian can then ask questions such as: Who changed the Bible? When exactly was it changed? How do you know it was changed if you don't have a copy of the original? The Bible, or at least the New Testament, cannot be an altered copy of the Injil because it is a completely different book. In fact, the original Bible or New Testament (the very first one) did not correspond to the Injil, Taurat, or Zabur in the first place. It doesn't matter how unreliably it was transmitted; the Bible does not correspond to the Qur'anic Injil.

It is not that the Christians have changed the original, but rather they have the wrong book, altogether. The words of Christ are possibly the closest thing to the Injil, but if some of them don't agree with the Noble Quran, then we don't take them. The recently discovered Gospel of Thomas,
which is nothing but a list of sayings of Jesus, is even closer to the Islamic concept of Injil. Therefore, it should be kept in mind in discussion with Christians that the Bible has not been changed, but rather the original documents chosen as the word of God were incorrect.

Next: A Christian.Missionary's."Thinking.Questions"

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Islam › Re: Christians (evangelism) And Their Deceptions by Empiree(op): 5:28am On Mar 13, 2015

[size=20pt]Missionary Traps For Muslims[/size]

Part 1: Faith and Works
One of the basic arguments raised by non-Muslims, especially Christians, against Islam concerns the concept of salvation. They say that in Christianity, one is saved by faith, whereas in Islam one must earn their salvation through good deeds. Unfortunately, many Muslims fall into the trap of defending the position imposed on them by these non-Muslims. This then provides the Christians with a basis for their entire Jesus-FatherCrucifixion-Salvation framework. They then go on to argue that salvation is a gift from God that cannot be earned. But if the true Islamic concept is made clear, the Christian has no basis to attack Islam. Many times, Muslims fail to realize that the Islamic concept of salvation is not based upon good deeds, but is based primarily upon faith. In the dozens of times Allah Almighty talks in the Qur'an about salvation, he always states, "Those who believe and do good deeds." Belief is always mentioned before deeds or works. When one converts to Islam, one does not do it by doing some good work but rather through realizing and believing that there is but one God and Muhammad PBUH is his last messenger. Non-Muslims may perform good works as well, but what sets them apart from Muslims is their lack of faith (iman), or belief. The reason that the good works of the non-believers are worthless in the hereafter is because of their disbelief. Unless a person's iman or aqeedah is not correct, all his good deeds are worthless. One of the more popular hadiths of the Prophet (peace be upon him) states, "All actions are based upon intentions," implying that the purpose, intent, or iman behind your action is what you get rewarded for; the actual action is really a consequence of the belief. Another hadith (saying from Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him) states
"A man came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and asked, 'When will the day of judgment come?' The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied, 'What have you prepared for the judgment day that you are so concerned for it?' He replied, 'I do not have any good deeds in my account, but I do have one thing: I love Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him).' The Prophet (peace be upon him) then said, 'In that case, do not worry; you will be with those whom you love.'" (Agreed Upon).
This saying from Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him also confirms the Islamic position of placing aqeedah (faith) and belief before actions. For example, Allah Almighty says in various parts of the Qur'an, "The believers you will find praying..." He does not say the people who are praying are believers. It is the belief that brings about the action, but the converse is not always true. Another hadith (saying) of the Prophet (peace be upon him) states, "Unless one loves Allah and Allah's Messenger more than one's own self his iman is not complete."

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Islam › Re: Mohammed(s.a.w.), What A Man! by Empiree: 4:18am On Mar 13, 2015

updated....

Islam › Re: Is This Shirk? by Empiree: 4:10am On Mar 13, 2015

Updated....

Islam › Re: Why I Should Take A Second Wife! by Empiree: 3:59am On Mar 13, 2015*

Justfollowit:
Look who has the audacity to accuse me of being a feminist

You confirmed they the Saudi King had 20 wives legally and according to you they were all halal. You are more twisted than I had initially envisaged.

How does single motherhood justifies polygamy. Does it is okay for some women think it is v okay to commit zina because some emasculated men would come around all in the name of being men and all forgiving to wife them. Your logic is twisted.

You dey waste your energy on keyboard. Me don made up my mind already grin

Islam › Re: Why I Should Take A Second Wife! by Empiree: 3:16am On Mar 13, 2015

[quote author=Justfollowit post=31567976]You did take your time for me but I am so sorry to tell you that I am the wrong person to address in this manner.

You have just confirmed what I had written earlier- YOU ARE EMASCULATED. You feel the need to prove to yourself that you are a MAN.

You dont get it, do you?.

When did you become husband of all nations? Are you under any obligation to marry women for that purpose? Because I can't seem to remember a verse where God addressed you to marry women to save them from living alone.

And is there a verse enjoining women to be single mother?

What are you even feeling like? That women needs you because you are the man.

Yes, I am a man and there is nothing you can do about it. Women dont tell me what to do.

[s]If you want to feel like a superman, you can go jump off a cliff and if you would like to protect someone, I heard the army is recruiting[/s]

Please don't ever mention Saudi Arabia royal family when you do address me, because I am of the opinion that they all need to be slaughtered so using them to buttress your point makes me crazy.

Slaughtered?. This is powerful word borne of bigotry.

[s]You can address people anyway you choose to, but when next you address me you need to take your time. Because I don't do wannabe men. I like to dialogue with MEN.[/s]

You sure have feminist agenda. This is why i dont support so called women's rights. Even if they have good intention. The movement is always hijacked. I am sorry for you and those women around you because sooner or later you leftover women who want to control, who are too proud to be second wife or or allow their husbands to marry another woman etc end up being "topless women" like those in New York. This how they started.

Case Study:

You find a man marrying more than a woman repulsive. Here is the thing. Recently in a state in US, a guy in his late 30s or early 40s impregnated some 5-6 women out of wedlock. These women, in total bore him 30 children. None of them is fathered halal way.

Now, State is looking for his whereabouts to hold him responsible for child support. He's been evading authority for months until he got caught. Now tell me, what protection do these women have?. None. They chose to voluntarily open their factories for him for free.

Prophet Muhammad (Allah's blessings be upon him) already told us over 1400yrs ago that (in the Last Age), one man will maintain 50 women. This man's children will definitely grow up in different states. Some will end up in foster homes (this is for sure). This is what marriage do to protect them. But this doesn't mean must marry more than one. Now, whats the difference between Saudi King who married 20 women(for example), legally, halal way and a "jigolo" who impregnated 6 women who bore him 30 children, no govt recognition of their union, not halal way, and the children will definitely suffer some sort of parental protection?

You can hold your view that your husband can not marry another woman unless you divorce. Of-course, that's your choice. But later, you will remember empire said "I told you".

You definitely seem to have western feminist mentality. I know very well how those fellas live and of-course it is not always bad. I repeat, I will marry 4 wives if i have to. All my wives and children will live under the same roof with me. That's called "progressive movement". Not having children here and there like birds.

Islam › Re: Why I Should Take A Second Wife! by Empiree: 2:11am On Mar 13, 2015

Justfollowit:
Smart decision

As for me, yes, I will marry 4 . Like it or not. Let the world continue to grow. Mac bowed to pressure. No, i wont. If i cant marry 4, at 2. Yorubas say "ka rin ka po yi ye lo n ye ni". Who is gonna marry those leftover muslim women?.

The idea that "I will not marry more than one wife" is utter rubbish. If Saudi's first King had marry 1 wife, mainstream muslims who are so proud of late Kings including the recent one would have nothing to be proud of.

Justfollowit, who will volunteer to marry "leftover women". There is no room for single mothers in Islam. I will not bow to your pressure. It's sunnah of nabiy to marry more than one if a man can afford to. I am a man. I dont need woman telling me what is or what is not. It's not about thinking of whats is btw women's leg. It's "supererogatory Sunnah". I know maclatunji just wanted you to feel better. He will marry 10 if you he can.

Islam › Re: The Heart Of A True Believer~ A New Muslim Romantic Novel by Empiree: 1:59am On Mar 13, 2015

^Okay

Islam › Re: Christians (evangelism) And Their Deceptions by Empiree(op): 12:55am On Mar 13, 2015

feedthenation:
Empiree: why are the Jews and the Christians the only group of people named in the Quran...what about Hindus, Sikhs Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Rastafarians and many other religions not mentioned in the Quran?

Okay, I decided I would let you do some research. But since some bigots chose respond naively, I'd respond appropriately. You dont need these two fellas to tell you what Islam is. Now to answer your simple question, you asked why only Jews and Christians mentioned in the Quran?.

The reason is Qur'an recognized Jews and Christian as the people who received scriptures prior to the advent of prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him). Jews, Christian and Muslims are dubbed "Abramaic faith" which means we share similar root. We all call Abraham(peace be upon him) "father of faith". Although we muslims do not believe Abraham (upon him be peace) practiced Christianity nor Judaism. Quran tells us that he practiced Islam (total submission to God's will). Quran teaches that Abraham was neither Jew nor christian.

(3:67)"Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah]. And he was not of the polytheists."

As for other religions you mentioned up there, Quran does mentioned them but it summed them up as Polytheists, Pagans, Idolaters. What makes these religions different from Judaism and Christianity is simply because they are purely outside of Abramaic religion.

I can elaborate on this if you want but this thread is definitely not for the discussion. I don't want to derail it. But I had to answer you out of respect. Thanks for questioning. Should you have more questions i think you should follow us on this thread https://www.nairaland.com/2172133/question-did-jesus-read-bible. It's appropriate to ask your questions right there.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 12:04am On Mar 13, 2015

plainbibletruth:
The gospel means “good news”.
This “good news” was recorded by different authors.
So the ‘message’ they present as well as their recorded writings can be termed ‘the gospel’.
The gospel therefore is as much a message (and the embodiment of that message) as well as the recorded message.
The key issue is that the CENTRAL MESSAGE of these recordings all agree.
In other words, it is not that the message – the “good news” – is presented in many recorded forms that should be of greater concern but that their CORE COMMUNICATION agree on a unifying theme.
That is the beauty of the “good news”.

So what is that "core communication" different authors "agreed" upon, please?

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Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 8:20pm On Mar 12, 2015*

plainbibletruth:
The gospel simply means good news.
The good news about God’s work culminating in Jesus Christ’s
death on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins, including his resurrection from the grave which proved that he was victorious and conquered death.
The coming into the world of Jesus Christ is God's ULTIMATE revelation to mankind.

Pls, no offense intended but what you said up there makes no sense. You brothers need lots of studies in theology. I can use your bible to refute what you said.

By the way, which Gospel of all over 40 different versions did Jesus preached?

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Islam › Re: Why I Should Take A Second Wife! by Empiree: 8:05pm On Mar 12, 2015

Justfollowit:
Do you fancy polygamy?

You are a pain in the neck. You aren't married yet but causing this much trouble already. You too much. Chai...

Islam › Re: Christians (evangelism) And Their Deceptions by Empiree(op): 7:41pm On Mar 12, 2015*

feedthenation:
Empiree: why are the Jews and the Christians the only group of people named in the Quran...what about Hindus, Sikhs Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Rastafarians and many other religions not mentioned in the Quran?

That will be your homework. lol grin

Islam › Re: Christians (evangelism) And Their Deceptions by Empiree(op): 4:18pm On Mar 12, 2015

[size=15pt]It's Time For Islamophobic Evangelicals To Choose[/size]

What A Christian Says

Editor's Note: Brian D. McLaren is author of "Why Did Jesus, Moses, the Buddha, and Mohammed Cross the Road? Christian Identity in a Multi-Faith World" (Jericho Books/Hachette Book Group).

By Brian McLaren, Special to CNN

I was raised as an evangelical Christian in America, and any discussion of Christian-Jewish-Muslim relations around the world must include the phenomenon of American Islamophobia, for which large sectors of evangelical Christianity in America serve as a greenhouse.

At a time when U.S. embassies are being attacked and when people are getting killed over an offensive, adolescent and puerile film targeting Islam - beyond pathetic in its tawdriness – we must begin to own up to the reality of evangelical Islamaphobia.

Many of my own relatives receive and forward pious-sounding and alarm-bell-ringing e-mails that trumpet (IN LOTS OF CAPITAL LETTERS WITH EXCLAMATION POINTS!) the evils of Islam, that call their fellow evangelicals and charismatics to prayer and “spiritual warfare” against those alleged evils, and that often - truth be told - contain lots of downright lies.

For example, one recent e-mail claimed “Egyptian Christians in Grave Danger as Muslim Brotherhood Crucifies Opponents." Of course, that claim has been thoroughly debunked, but the sender’s website still (as of Friday) claims that the Muslim Brotherhood has “crucified those opposing" Egyptian President Mohamed Morsy "naked on trees in front of the presidential palace while abusing others.”

Many sincere and good-hearted evangelicals have never yet had a real Muslim friend, and now they probably never will because their minds have been so prejudiced by Islamophobic broadcasts on so-called Christian television and radio.

Janet Parshall, for example, a popular talk show host on the Moody Radio Network, frequently hosts Walid Shoebat, a Muslim-evangelical convert whose anti-Muslim claims, along with claims about his own biography, are frequently questioned. John Hagee, a popular televangelist, also hosts Shoebat as an expert on Islam, as does the 700 Club.

Many Christian bookstores that (used to) sell my books, still sell books such as Paul Sperry’s "Infiltration: How Muslim Spies and Subversives Have Penetrated Washington" (Thomas Nelson, 200. In so doing, they fuel conspiracy theories such as the ones U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minnesota, promoted earlier this year.

In recent days, we’ve seen how irresponsible Muslim media outlets used the tawdry 13-minute video created by a tiny handful of fringe Christian extremists to create a disgusting caricature of all Christians - and all Americans - in Muslim minds. But too few Americans realize how frequently American Christian media personalities in the U.S. similarly prejudice their hearers’ minds with mirror-image stereotypes of Muslims.

Meanwhile, many who are pastors and leaders in evangelicalism hide their heads in the current issue of Christianity Today or World Magazine, acting as if the kinds of people who host Islamophobic sentiments swim in a tiny sidestream, not in the mainstream, of our common heritage. I wish that were true.

The events of this past week, if we let them, could mark a turning point - a hitting bottom, if you will - in the complicity of evangelicalism in Islamophobia. If enough evangelicals watch or try to watch the film trailer that has sparked such outrage in the Middle East, they may move beyond the tipping point.

I tried to watch it, but I couldn’t make it halfway to the 13-minute mark. Everything about it was tawdry, pathetic, even pornographic. All but the most fundamentalist believers from my evangelical Christian tribe who watch that video will be appalled and ashamed to be associated with it.

It is hate speech. It is no different from the anti-Semitic garbage that has been all too common in Western Christian history. It is sub-Christian - beneath the dignity of anyone with a functioning moral compass.

Islamophobic evangelical Christians - and the neo-conservative Catholics and even some Jewish folks who are their unlikely political bedfellows of late - must choose.

Will they press on in their current path, letting Islamophobia spread even further amongst them? Or will they stop, rethink and seek to a more charitable approach to our Muslim neighbors? Will they realize that evangelical religious identity is under assault, not by Shariah law, not by the liberal media, not by secular humanism from the outside, but by forces within the evangelical community that infect that religious identity with hostility?

If I could get one message through to my evangelical friends, it would be this: The greatest threat to evangelicalism is evangelicals who tolerate hate and who promote hate camouflaged as piety.

No one can serve two masters. You can’t serve God and greed, nor can you serve God and fear, nor God and hate.

The broad highway of us-them thinking and the offense-outrage-revenge reaction cycle leads to self-destruction. There is a better way, the way of Christ who, when reviled, did not revile in return, who when insulted, did not insult in return, and who taught his followers to love even those who define themselves as enemies.

Yes, “they” – the tiny minority of Muslims who turn piety into violence – have big problems of their own. But the way of Christ requires all who claim to be Christians to examine our own eyes for planks before trying to perform first aid on the eyes of others. We must admit that we have our own tiny minority whose message and methods we have not firmly, unitedly and publicly repudiated and rejected.

To choose the way of Christ is not appeasement. It is not being a “sympathizer.”

The way of Christ is a gentle strength that transcends the vicious cycles of offense-outrage-revenge.

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Islam › Re: Why I Should Take A Second Wife! by Empiree: 4:10pm On Mar 12, 2015

Justfollowit:
Do you disagree with him

I am not o

No, he made fair comment

Islam › Re: Why I Should Take A Second Wife! by Empiree: 3:08pm On Mar 12, 2015

Justfollowit:
This sounds better

You try harder to get him to blend a little. You are too much wahala, ma'am grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 3:04pm On Mar 12, 2015

Rilwayne001:
He probably didn't.

Yes, he didnt. He just read the headline and it fitted his 'myopism'.

1 Like

Islam › Re: Christians (evangelism) And Their Deceptions by Empiree(op): 2:55pm On Mar 12, 2015

kestolove95:
So I ask..what will d christian gain from doin alll dix?...dats if dey do in d first place? Sai buhari/osinbajo

What they gain?. This is a million dollar question. God already told muslims that people of the book will not be pleased with muslims.

"And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion. Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance." If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper." 2:120

I have been hearing crazy maltreatment of non-Muslims who revert(convert) to Islam. In this video, you will get a bit of the stories of how those people are treated, yet media say Muslims force people to convert or kill those to apostate from Islam. They are liars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfC-CKmTRT0

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Islam › Re: Christians (evangelism) And Their Deceptions by Empiree(op): 2:46pm On Mar 12, 2015*

QUOTING OUT OF CONTEXT

Often a verse will be quoted to you that has been taken entirely out of context. When the entire chapter that contains that verse is read, it becomes clear that it does not corroborate the Missionary. Conclusion : Selling Timeshare or Christshare? You may recognize many of the tactics used by some Missionaries in selling there faith as they have similarities to disreputable Timeshare
and Double glazing salesman, and this raises some interesting points: Why would one propagate faith in such a deceitful and underhanded way, is it because: God will not aid ones seeking the true path? A bad product is difficult to sell unless you dupe someone? If you are genuinely interested in faith why don't you go ask someone with a ١٠sound knowledge and understanding of Islam, instead of targeting the naive, vulnerable and the weak. Why do you seek out the naive and weak and then intentionally ask mischievous questions, when they have been answered many times by learned scholars and by people that you have approached over the years? Surely this does not add to knowledge or understanding. Why do you target Muslims Considering the moral depravity often in
your own family and neighbor hood and within so called Christians. Is it because Muslims are wealthy in faith? Is it because you have so much hatred for Muslims and you are unable, incapable or tired of other methods.

RIDICULE

There is a very large number of publications by Muslims explaining Islam in plain and simple English. Look in any public library for books on Islam, a large proportion of them will be by orientalists and Christian missionaries, what do you think motivates someone to write a book on a subject one does
not believe in and an area that has been already covered by numerous other books? Remember Christian "Translations" of the Qur'an whose sole intention was to discredit Islam.

CRUSADES

Butchered everyone including defenseless women and children or any one else that got in there way. Although it has taken many hundreds of years Crusaders have improved they now only kill some women and RAPE THE REST. The twentieth century has seen "Ethnic Cleansing" replace the word Crusade, in 1996 one of the youngest recorded victim of rape in Bosnia was a baby of 4 Months old. Many women and children had two of there fingers severed by the Serbs so that the three remaining fingers would remind them of the Trinity.

A WAY FORWARD

While we as Muslims believe that the entire Qur'an is the word of God and we would like every one to accept it as such, God Himself has given the freedom of religion which we respect. With that in mind, all we hope is that non-Muslims will at least enlighten themselves with an open heart and mind by knowing what Islam is. We hope that Muslims, Christians and Jews will find ways to work together to bring peace on earth by eradicating immorality, fear, hate, disease, poverty and injustice. Muslims welcome the chance improve dialogue and understanding with all faiths. In addition we do not object to other groups explaining there ideas and faith to whomever expresses an interest, but we do think it is unacceptable that missionaries demean other faiths, use deceitful methods and harass communities with what can be described highly trained and focused door to door salesman.

USE THE PROPER RESOURCES!

Most Muslims spend their time studying Islam trying to find a path to true enlightenment, and therefore may not be familiar with the "curve-ball" approach of missionaries. If you need advice concerning a problem of this sort, get in touch with Muslims scholars and people who are familiar with the missionaries tactics' being used and who know how to deal with them.

Next: Missionary Traps for Muslims

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Islam › Re: Christians (evangelism) And Their Deceptions by Empiree(op): 2:35pm On Mar 12, 2015

DECEPTION
The missionary may tell you that he (or a Christian friend or acquaintance) was once a Muslim, or that he had a solid Muslim education, a traditional Muslim family life, etc. This is almost always a lie, so don't let him fool you. The hidden message that he is attempting to convey is that he came to
accept Christianity after knowing and overcoming all of the Muslim objections (Jesus being son of god, Bible being corrupted by man etc.), and therefore, why should you bother to check it out? He may drop certain Islamic phrases or talk about the details of his "traditional" Muslim upbringing, in order to lend more credence to his story. In fact, his "memory" is often the result of careful coaching. The missionary might tell you that he knows the Islamic objections to his arguments,and will then proceed to show how such objectives are ill-founded. Don't expect to hear the real Islamic response from such a source.

GOOD, BAD OR UGLY
Don't be taken in by the "good cop - bad cop" routine. This routine involves a "bad cop" who threatens the subject, and a "good cop" who protects him from the "bad cop". The subject is so grateful to the "good cop", and so worried about losing the good-will of his protector, that he invariably shows his appreciation by telling the "good cop" what he wants to hear. In similar fashion, the "good" Christian talks about how much he loves and respects Muslims, while denouncing the "bad" Christians who hate and have persecuted Muslims. The naive and ones lacking in knowledge of Christian history and bigotry will feel grateful to the "good cop", and may automatically judge him to be a friend and reliable ally. Watch out for hidden motives behind such "friendship".

WHO BELIEVES IN THE SON OF GOD?

At the outset, the missionary will talk about his belief that Jesus is the messiah. Many Muslims don't find out until later, often after they have joined a Christian friendship group, that their fundamental belief is that Jesus is god. Any talk about "the messiah" or "son of god" is merely a cover for that belief, basic to Christianity . However, since such a concept is repugnant in Islam, this most basic belief of Christianity is glossed over as much as possible when missionaries talk to Muslims.

PROOF or SPOOF?

Don't be impressed by the claim that Christians have 50, or 100, or 300 "proofs" that they are correct in their claims about Jesus. As proof after proof is shown to be meaningless, the missionary
will hide behind his numbers, as if to say: "Well, we have so many more proofs, what's the difference if you can disprove some of them". He will attempt to "split the difference" with you: "Well, even if half our proofs prove nothing, we still have another 25 or 50, or 150". Remember, all of their proofs can be shown to be untenable. Keep in mind that a faulty point is not worth 50% of a good point, or 25%, or 10%. It is worthless. The simple mathematics are: 50 x 0 = 0, 100 x 0 = 0.

CIRCULAR REASONING

Very often, the reasoning used by Christian missionaries is circular. That is, the "proof" only points to something is if you believe it in the first place, and therefore is no proof at all.

MISTRANSLATION

Be aware of the problem of mistranslating. A person who is not familiar with Arabic can be lead to accept a mistranslated which puts a Christian "twist" on a verse that never had such a meaning in the original. If you can't check it out yourself, talk ٩to a reliable person who can. Remember, it is no coincidence that the Muslims of past generations, who were much better versed in the Arabic, never had any serious problems refuting Christian missionary arguments. In addition beware of Christian Translations of the Qur'an, many date from sixteenth to the eighteenth century with the sole intention of to discredit Islam. Please keep in mind ANY translation (interpretation) of the Qur'an will most definitely contain errors In its natural language (Arabic), the Qur'an is the direct Word of Allah
(God) to mankind through the prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him). Any translation of the Qur'an no longer retains that 'official' and perfect status, however it can be tremendously helpful to beginning students wanting to learn more about Islam. We would strongly encourage those want to learn about Islam to purchase a copy of the Qur'an but with the following conditions: get one with commentary (tafseer) & make sure the tafseer is scholarly (e.g. references to reasons behind a verse, references to hadith and sunnah, etc..). An excellent English translation of the meanings and commentary of the Noble Qur'an is that of Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali and Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan recently published work by " King Fahd Complex for the printing of the Holy Qur'an – Madinah, Kingdom of Saudia Arabia ".

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Islam › Re: Christians (evangelism) And Their Deceptions by Empiree(op): 2:21pm On Mar 12, 2015

A Guide to Missionary Tactics

This guide is intended to improve awareness about the tactics used by some Christian groups and cults. The tactics of Christian missionaries and missionary groups may vary, but there are some basic guidelines to keep in mind that will be helpful in dealing with them.

HIDDEN AGENDA
Some missionaries attempt to develop a rapport with their subject without divulging their own religious affiliation or intention. Christian missionaries are coached by their superiors to avoid using words such as "Christ" or "savior" or "baptize". If you are not sure about the religious identity of the stranger who begins talking to you about religion, ask him directly about his beliefs and agenda. Be suspicious of an indirect answer. Remember these people aren't interested in dialogue or trying to
improve Anglo-Muslim links but are often in SECURE PAID EMPLOYMENT to Sell Christianity

CREATING DOUBT

When the Christian missionary talks to a Muslim about religion, they may attempt to elicit as many "I don't know" responses as possible, in order to establish their superiority in matters of religion. Don't allow yourself to be intimidated! Remember, the missionary has studied Islamic beliefs for the
sole purpose to "sell Christianity to Muslims". Their hearts are sealed and they are no longer interested in truth. Keep in mind that he is not speaking to you in order to exchange ideas, but rather to create as much doubt in your mind and lead you away from your faith. If you want to learn more about the Qur'an, do so from someone who doesn't have hidden motives. Therefore, feel free to simply end the conversation and walk away. Remember that many of these questions and associations they are trying to sell have been debunked many times by more learned Muslims. If they were interested in dialogue the would are trying to sell have been debunked many times by more learned Muslims. If they were interested in dialogue the would be speaking to respected elders and community leaders exploring common ground improving understanding and faith in the community, but all one sees are the often the same question again to unsuspecting victims. Ask yourself what do they hope to gain ? However, some of you may want to listen to their arguments and then learn the Muslim response, in order to be better prepared for future encounters. One must also remember that many missionaries intentionally go into Muslim countries and Muslims areas, so they train themselves and create the most seductive "Sales Pitch" they can manage. Once they have finished there training in salesmanship they will target unsuspecting Muslims (the lonely, vulnerable and weak) lacking in knowledge. The following pointers should give you a basic idea of what to look for.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 1:52pm On Mar 12, 2015

limamintruth:
He said(qaala): "My Lord knows ..."
The examples of the differences given earlier show that the differences are far more than dialect, accent or pronunciation. The differences change the subject of the sentence, whether the verb is active or passive or whether it is singular or plural. These differences do affect the meaning. Comprende'?[/size]

I wont waste my time over this. You haven't said anything. You know why?. I am glad you delved original Arabic transcripts but you are basically talking about linguistic analysis which doesn't in any way has anything to do with contradiction or distortion. Thanks to copy/paste job grin

. You even stoop so low by posting website you got help from. You probably didn't read what you posted either and the one who gave you 'like' has no idea what you posted. I am aware of them.

I am just going to respond to the points you raised,

And many a prophet was killed(qutila)
[Also as in 3:144 in both versions]

and

qatala (3:146)

"qutila" in sura Imran 144 is l verb "to slain", "to kill" derived from "qatala" is lll verb "fought". You will need to consult Arabic dictionary futher on this if you really wish to learn. It's true that Arabs have different accents. Like Algerian or UAE for instance, they could pronounce 'ka' as 'ga' but this doesn't change original 'KA' in arabic. I have witnessed this several times. All that is nothing.

You have not brought any contradiction from Quran. You see how i diligently I brought contradictions from your Bible you did not respond to that.

Now here is another challenge for you. This is another contradiction in the Bible. Read 1 Samuel 13:1 in King James Version
"Saul reigned one year; and when he had reigned two years over Israel,"

New International Version (NIV)
Samuel Rebukes Saul
"Saul was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty two years."

In some other versions, the age of Saul is erased or the year he reigned is expunged and they put question mark (?).

So you failed to answer the first 2 contradictions. Let's see if you can figure this out. I got more. I haven't even talked about blasphemy against God and His prophets yet.

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Islam › Re: The Heart Of A True Believer~ A New Muslim Romantic Novel by Empiree: 12:38pm On Mar 12, 2015

Empiree:
^Sure. Umm, Imran keeping his promise?. Possible but stands on a "roller coaster". The fact that Imran is handsome young man, rich and charming lol, he's a loverboy.

Rahinnat will need to exercise lots of patience and be steadfast.

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 4:32am On Mar 11, 2015

limamintruth,

Christians like to quote this verse to seduce ignorant people. 1 John5:7 King James Version (KJV)

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

^ This verse has been expunged from other versions:

English Standard Version (ESV),

GOD’S WORD Translation (GW),

Common English Bible (CEB),

Good News Translation (GNT),

New International Version (NIV),

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) and many others.

Why did they remove it?. The answer is Revised Standard Version says there is noting like such phrase from original Greek manuscripts. Yet Christians believe it. Question is why this discrepancy.

I have more evidences against you. Answer these two questions first before i move forward. And please dont come back here to tell me the missing books and verses are in other versions. You will not see this silly distortion in the Quran.

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Islam › Re: Christians (evangelism) And Their Deceptions by Empiree(op): 3:26am On Mar 11, 2015*

7) Accepting the principle of polygamy. A funny thing to mention, In England, there was a conference in 1409 AD for priests and a big discussion took place about polygamy, many of them totally rejected that issue and said that this is one thing they use against Islam, but they faced the problem that if they didn't allow polygamy they will lose their campaigns in Africa, after realizing that, they allowed it. There are catholic priest in Africa with 40 wives or more.

8 ) They say that many Muslims have changed to Christianity and they publish books and cassettes about that. For example the book "Why I become a Christian?" written by "Sultan Muhammad Paul", a weird mix of Christian and Muslim names, they claim in this book that this person was a Muslim from Afghanistan who was the son of a scholar and went to Mecca to do Hajj, asked Allah for one thing which was to give him the true guidance, then the book says they he accepted Christianity, the rest of the book is attacks on Islam that appear to be written by someone who has done a whole lot of research and is very deep into Islamic issues. It is very obvious that this book is false and forged, this is a way that is used quite a lot by Christian missionaries who claim that Muslims (go to Hajj and ask for true guidance and accept their sect .. ).

9) Taking the children from their parents and raising them according to their belief. For example in England they started special Hotels for children where they stay there with no connection with their parents, the workers there speak many languages, funny how most of them are Muslim spoken languages (eg Arabic and Urdu). Another example during the Bosnian war the children who were taken from Bosnia to Italy and France they were raised according to Christians believes, those children they know nothing about their original Islamic religion. Even if these children would discover what happened to them they would still have doubts from what was taught to them.

10) The use of Natural disasters : Such as wars, earthquakes floods, ...etc, The need for food, shelter, medicine, education and clothes are one of the reasons that Muslims may accept Christianity. Muslims had to choose either take "Food + Christianity", or stay a Muslim, but a "Hungry Muslim". It is also sad that the aids that Muslims send were distributed by Christians Agencies these aids were sent by Muslims to their brothers and sisters in Bosnia, Chechnya, Indonesia, Somalia, Sudan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan and Iraq. Muslims' funds and resources are used to spread the Christian religion and to spread hatred of one Muslim towards the other ("The Cross comes with food for you, your Muslim brothers forgot you" wink

.

11) Making conditions easy for new converts from Islam to Christianity: These converts are treated by other Muslims as a traitor and something shameful, and that is the truth. They also saw that new converts feel left and abandoned, they also do not find full satisfaction with Christianity. A book called (The Christians missionary among Muslims). This book was printed in Lagos in Nigeria and was given to all the missionaries in that area, this book explains how the missionary can get the best results of his preaching. It says: "the Christian missionary must offer a great love for new converts, as well as regular Muslims, be nice to them. Learn about Islam not only to destroy Muslims belief, but also to understand the similarities between Islam and Christianity so that YOU START WITH THESE POINTS. Talk to them about Jesus, tell them that he loves them and that he is their Saviour. Do not argue the faith, give them a general idea, a fast answer, even try to make it as a joke especially the Trinity, or the idea that Jesus is the son of God

Many Muslims are effected by this missionary activity, and that many Muslims leave Islam and enter into Christianity! add to that the ones who are slightly affected by Christianity they for example leave Islam without entering into Christianity, or accept some of the Christian belief, or help Christians in their activities, or accept that their relatives become Christians then that is a huge number of people! So the missionary activity is doing what it is supposed to do.

It is wrong to think that every Muslim has an impunity against these missionaries, the missionary efforts are very huge, they are starting to give results even it is was a partial success.. Ignorance is also another reason, there are many Muslims who do not know much about Islam. The ignorant Muslim is called to Christianity in cunning ways and so he enters into it. The fact that there is no Islamic preaching to stand in the face of Christian missionary with similar preaching is also another factor, there is not such activity to teach those ignorant Muslims about their religion and warning them about the danger of the missionaries is a reason that made Christianity acceptable among Muslims.

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Islam › Christians (evangelism) And Their Deceptions by Empiree(op): 3:26am On Mar 11, 2015*

[size=20pt]Responding To Christian Missionaries Tactics[/size]

Christian Missionaries Sweeping the Islamic World

Weapons of Missionary Deception (WMD)

The Islamic world is the land that is full of milk and honey, the way
"Peter the Monk" described it when he called for the European Crusades,
today the Islamic world floods with Oil too, which is the most important
one because the western civilization and economy is based on the
consumption of this oil, of which 70% is in the Islamic world.

Christian missionaries are now using new methods in the Islamic world,
because the old methods did not prove as effective as the Christian
missionaries thought they were. Some of these new ways are :-

1) They started using Islamic names, for examples one of their radio stations that has a person that is responsible for answering the questions of the listeners is called "Shiekh Abd-Allah", his program is called "Allahu Akbar", other radio stations are called "Sawt Al-haq", "Noor A'la Noor". They can use different names but they use these only to confuse Muslims with their misguided preaching.

2) Building churches that look similar to Mosques : Muslims were turned off from entering churches because they looked different, that also made them feel very uncomfortable with them. They also changed the internal structure of the church to look similar to a Mosque, the people sit on the floor and in lines. They have circles for teaching and that sort of stuff. They started using a new way for reciting the bible that is similar to the Tarteel of Qur'an. They also try to compare Christ in Islam to Christ in "Christianity".

3) Publishing and distributing misguiding books that talk about the similarities between Islam and Christian faith. They, for example, quote the verse that refers to prophet Jesus (PUH) "Peace Upon Him" as a prophet, a word and a spirit. They say that is originally the same trinity! Of course this is a false interpretation, a lie. Allah said he blew in Adam of his own spirit, Allah gave his word to prophets Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Muhammad (PBUT) "Peace and Blessings of Allah Upon Them" and not only to prophet Jesus. The missionaries base this whole theory on the fact that there are three nouns, i.e just because of the number. One of their other arguments that they say that "In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most merciful" means three gods!! not one! that is a worst lie than the one before, they ignore that Allah has 99 names that we know, and many more that Allah promised to tell his prophet at the day of judgment.

4) They started a new way, not to tell Muslims things as they are, for example not to tell them that Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of Allah, since Jesus himself didn't use that expression, so they use other words like "the spirit of Allah" since it is closer to the understanding of a Muslim. They also use titles that are common between the two religions such as "Assalah", "Assawm", which include Christian propaganda but a title that is used to hunt Muslim readers.

5) The use of Islamic expressions such as "Bismilalhi Al-Rahmani AlRaheem", "Jesus Alaihi assalam", "subhanah Allah", "Allah tabarak wa ta'ala" ... calling their churches "Boyoot Allah" (houses of God). They sometimes even claim to accept Islam as a religion from God, but they say that Christianity was not canceled by Islam!

6-It is clear that the missionaries are selling these kind of images for the sole purpose of duping Muslims from non-Arabic speaking background. These Biblical images have also clearly been purposely portrayed with the style of calligraphy to mirror that of the usual Qur'ânic calligraphy familiar to these Muslims who will hence find it difficult to distinguish the two. One only wonders whether such dubious methods are "inspired" from the Holy Spirit, the third member of the Trinity, or from the unholy Devil himself!

The translation of this verse is: Come to me all you who labour and are heavily burdened, and I will
give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for I am gentle and humble of heart, and you will find rest for your souls; for my yoke is easy and my burden is the light. the Arabic Bible verse of Matthew 5: 44-45

6) Making concessions to win Muslims : for examples making Qudas (Christian ceremony) on Fridays not on Sundays to confuse Muslims.

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Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 2:49am On Mar 11, 2015

The Death Of Money
http://pro.moneymappress.com/MMRBS495SH/PMMRR305/?iris=339220&ad=ramp-xu&h=true

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 1:22am On Mar 11, 2015*

author=limamintruth post=31505103: You still have said nothing mister. Why are you shying away from quoting the Bible verse(s) allegedely missing in the translation as mentioned by you

I have given you one example so far but you didnt say anything. Look for Good News Bible used by Catholics and Protestants. Catholic has 77 books, Protestant has 66 books. Both can not be right. Thats your first assignment. I know you are naive of your own bible

BlaBlaBla... As i said earlier, kindly release the name(s) of the Bible translation(s) then. Or else, your allegation remains baseless.

Deal with first assignment first^^

Lol, this is really getting interesting . So you mean the quran english translation is not regarded as the actual arabic quran right? ?
Does that mean the english translation is only a mere book of interpretation, hence, shouldnt to refered to as the actual supposed 'divine' book? Lallai kam!

Yes, Quran is revealed in Arabic. Therefore translation in other languages are for the benefits of non Arabic speaking Muslims and non-Muslims.

"So We have revealed an Arabic Quran to you,..." (Qur'an 42:7)

Mind you the Holy Bible is not limited to only one language because it is the true message of God that is meant for all nations of the world who speak diverse languages. Our God understand all languages and listens to prayers of the believers spoken in all languages. Our God is not a God of confusion. He has a purpose for allowing nations of the earth to speak in diverse tongues.

You dont get it do you?. I dont have problem with translations into different languages. Thats not my point. My point is contradictions, distortions, inconsistencies, omission, additions etc. Get it?

I'l leave you with the piece of uthman quranic translations with contradictory words for you ponder upon tonight

Qur'an is One in Arabic. Uthman(RA) did not speak english

Yusuf Ali : He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning);...

Pickthall : He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - ...

Shakir : He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive ...

And what's stopping you from typing the chapter and verse you gleaned these from?. I would imagine it's Sura Imran. But why dont you type it out?

(So kindly explain to us how the following terms (from the quranic texts above) mean the same thing mister-mallam-wannabe :-

You dont get it at all. You still make no point.

- basic or fundamental (of established meaning)

- clear revelations

- some of its verses are decisive. )

I knew it was sura Imran(7)
هُوَ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ ۖ.
Quran is revealed two ways. The first way are the verses that are plain and clear. They only need tafsir(explanation). They(those verses) are umm al kitab(they are the fundamental and basic with established meaning. That's, they dont need tawil (interpretation). So you are unable to point contradiction here. The three(3) interpretations) you cited are translators' "choice of words, phrase" etc. They mean the same thing. They are not contradictions.

Now, let's take a look at dictionary:

basic or fundamental {forming a necessary base or core; of central importance.
"the protection of fundamental human rights"
synonyms: basic, underlying, core, foundational, rudimentary, elemental, elementary, basal, root;
https://www.google.com/search?q=fundamental&oq=fundamental&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8}

clear revelations: This is clear enough. The former explains this. Key word here is
"clear"
{Definition:easy to perceive, understand, or interpret.
"the voice on the telephone was clear and strong"
synonyms: understandable, comprehensible, intelligible, plain, uncomplicated, explicit, lucid, coherent, simple, straightforward, unambiguous, clear-cut, crystal clear; formal perspicuous
https://www.google.com/search?q=clear&oq=clear&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i59&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q=clear+definition}

some of its verses are decisive: Key word here is decisive. Here is dico definition.

{settling an issue; producing a definite result.
"the Supreme Court voided the statute by a decisive 7–2 vote"
synonyms: deciding, conclusive, determining; key, pivotal, critical, crucial, significant, influential, major, chief, principal, prim. https://www.google.com/search?q=decisive&oq=decisive&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8}.

Let me explain a little further what the verse is saying. Say for instance Imam wants to pass judgement on a thief, the punishment recorded in the Quran is "plain and clear"(i:e fundamental, decisive, basic, root etc). Imam doesnt need to look for controversial meaning to try to pass judgement.
If you go further in the same verse it says some verses are not entirely clear. Those verses need "tawil". Tawil can only be done by extremely knowledgeable scholars. Those are the verses that are allegorical. They can not be used as standard. We use plain verses to set rules and regulations

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Christianity Etc › Re: Chilling In The Mosque by Empiree: 12:57am On Mar 11, 2015

justlove91:
We saw people opening up graves and bringing out bones, the question now is considering the fact that most of the people buried in these graves are idol worshipers, are these bones begin punished in their respective graves?

This is the begining of your trip to grave. So go to mosque and keep chilling while it last.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDAzrNjhatk

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 11:39pm On Mar 10, 2015

Shirley07:
You made no sense just like Mohammed never did.
Jesus couldn't have read the bible when he already has the knowledge of all the works in the O.T and even then, the bible wasn't even complete at that time.
The books Jesus read were books of the prophet which talked about him and affirmed that he's truly the son of God. The gospels he preached were of himself, salvation, God's kingdom, his death and resurrection which are all written in the New testament.
Hence, Jesus is our gospel and message.
The song writer goes thus:
Jesus only is our Message,
Jesus all our theme shall be,
We will lift up Jesus ever,
Jesus only will we see.
Chorus:
Jesus only, Jesus ever! Jesus all, in all we sing,
Saviour, Sanctifier, Healer, Baptizer and coming King.

Okay, that means Jesus has no idea of over 40 different bibles that you now have, that have much discrepancies within them. Okay, good you have answered the question. It means Jesus didn't preach Christianity. He has no idea what it is.

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