₦airaland Forum

^^^ And also add this to the mix

1 Tim 5:8 (deliberately using NIV)

If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

As many will know, the thread title is obviously taken from Isaiah 1:18.

It seems fashionable to denigrate Christianity (and other faiths, I suppose) as anti-intellectual. Well and truly, the gospel is not primarily an intellectual matter and the duty of us Christians is to preach the gospel and leave it to the Holy Spirit to convict.

Nevertheless, Christianity (or even faith for that matter) does not preclude the use of intellect or even require its suppression or suspension. The intellectual challenge of Christianity (and of faith I suppose) is not to prove or disprove the everyday intellectual disciplines such as science, history and the like. Rather, the intellectual challenge of Christianity (and of faith I suppose) is balancing what we believe as of faith with what we know is true in the intellectual disciplines like science etc.

An example: science says that a woman cannot get pregnant without the involvement of spermatozoa from a man: I believe in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ. To the purely intellectual minded, my belief is "daft" because science contradicts it; I say all well and good with your science which is true that spermatozoa is necessary for conception. But I believe in something greater than your science ---- something which can override your science. Now I say emphatically ---- that stance is not anti-intellectual. In fact I am even now going to coin a new term to describe that stance ---supra-intellectual ---- i.e. recognises and understands the intellectual position but yet rises above that intellectual position.

Now on this "anti-intellectualism" charge ----- even a cursory reading of the Bible and a casual knowledge and understanding of church history very easily refutes the charge that Christianity is anti-intellectual.

Acts 17:1-2

Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three Sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures.

Acts 18:4

And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Acts 18:19

And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.

Acts 24:25

And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

The Anglican tradition is often seen (sometimes jokingly derisively) as one given to: Scriptures, Reason and Tradition as exemplified by this line

Scripture, informed by reason (the intellect and the experience of God) and tradition (the practices and beliefs of the historical church)

taken from this wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglicanism

For all their faults, church fathers and various theologians throughout history down to Calvin or, contemporarily, to N T Wright cannot sensibly be accused of being intellectual pigmies or "anti-intellectual".

Anyway to summarise ---- to believe in the sufficiency or authority of the Bible is not necessarily to be anti-intellectual.

From https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-514450.0.html#msg6775141

http://www.snopes.com/photos/gruesome/crushboy.asp

These pictures originated with the Iranian news site PeykeIran, who (along with persons who have witnessed similar scenes in other countries) confirmed that what the photographs actually depict is performers hustling money from onlookers by staging a common street act, one in which a subject seemingly allows himself to be run over by a heavy vehicle and then emerges unscathed. This a common act, variations of which are performed by many magicians and accomplished through a variety of means, with no lasting harm done. That the subject is a small boy who grimaces his way through the stunt is all part of the act, intended to elicit sympathy and extra cash from onlookers. (Despite his contorted facial expressions, the boy is not seriously or permanently injured by the process.

and

The above photographs do not depict any form of amputation, and it is the child's left arm which goes under the wheels. Moreover, there are no police, judges, religious authorities, or other officials evident in any of the pictures, just a huckster with a hand-held microphone who drums up business and describes the action for the onlookers visible in the background of the first photo. (Also note the blanket placed under the boy's arm — something which is useful for a staged stunt but is unlikely to be provided or allowed by those intent on severely punishing a lawbreaker.)

anonimi:
the point is these pastors who claim to be representatives of god are literally crying more than the bereaved.
remember that Christ pardoned the woman adulterer but whipped and chased out money changers in the synagogue. that should tell you something about what should be the priority of christians (those who are like Christ), pastors included. . . .

I wonder! And the Rahab the harlot of whom we speak was counted among the heroes of faith in Hebrews 11 (v. 31)

By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

^^^ And Jesus' lineage included a 'prosti-tute' ---- Rahab the harlot!

Edited

[quote author=microgi@nt link=topic=516178.msg6830315#msg6830315 date=1285594574]Zenus, they didn't claim it's FTA. Please read my post again. It will be FTA only on their decoders and cards.[/quote]When a provider makes channels "free" only to those who have its decoder/card it is better to call this FTV i.e. Free to View because it is not really FTA. FTA, free to air, means that a channel is available to any and all receivers.

From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11385095

There is one achievement, however, that may be worth elevating above all.

In the context of the myriad of problems faced by Nigeria over the past 50 years, somehow, miraculously, the country has succeeded in staying in one piece.

I suppose staying in one piece is some form of 'achievement', yes.

Britain's 'Top Scientist' says:

"I would support peaceful co-existence between religion and science because they concern different domains," Lord Rees said. "Anyone who takes theology seriously knows that it's not a matter of using it to explain things that scientists are mystified by."

From http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/martin-rees-we-shouldnt-attach-any-weight-to-what-hawking-says-about-god-2090421.html

Britain's 'Top Scientist'  ---- "We shouldn't attach any weight to what Hawking says about god"

From  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/martin-rees-we-shouldnt-attach-any-weight-to-what-hawking-says-about-god-2090421.html

On the need to confront the big environmental problems facing us in the 21st century, he parts company with his friend and colleague Stephen Hawking, who famously once said that humans will have to colonise distant planets if they are to survive. "I think that's an an ill-thought through statement and we have to bear in mind that there is nowhere we know about in our own Solar System that is even as hospitable as the top of Everest or the South Pole. The problems of the Earth must be solved here on the Earth and we must not divert attention from that necessity," Lord Rees said. He is equally scathing about Hawking's more recent comments about there being no need for God in order to explain creation. "Stephen Hawking is a remarkable person whom I've know for 40 years and for that reason any oracular statement he makes gets exaggerated publicity. I know Stephen Hawking well enough to know that he has read very little philosophy and even less theology, so I don't think we should attach any weight to his views on this topic," he said.

and also says

"I would support peaceful co-existence between religion and science because they concern different domains," Lord Rees said. "Anyone who takes theology seriously knows that it's not a matter of using it to explain things that scientists are mystified by."

works everytime

New computer simulations have shown how the parting of the Red Sea, as described in the Bible, could have been a phenomenon caused by strong winds.

The account in the Book of Exodus describes how the waters of the sea parted, allowing the Israelites to flee their Egyptian pursuers.

Simulations by US scientists show how the movement of wind could have opened up a land bridge at one location.

This would have enabled people to walk across exposed mud flats to safety.

The results are published in the open-access journal Plos One.

The researchers show that a strong east wind, blowing overnight, could have pushed water back at a bend where an ancient river is believed to have merged with a coastal lagoon.

From  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11383620

Joagbaje:
. . . [size=14pt]Jesus wasn't perfect either, he was another Adam[/size] . . .

Lord have mercy!

@ Deep Sight

In all honesty and without malice, iwọ naa ma n' tan eeyan ni suuru!!!

The point you attacked is as nuclearboy and aletheia stated it --- if man was a god already how could he again become a god. In any event the argument has been that at no time was man or did he become god. You might at least have acknowledged that but instead you switch to the "Jewish Landlord" spiel.

I can only hope you give some of these supposed "personal attacks" on you some thought and consider perhaps, just perhaps you are doing something quite wrong.

^^^ Yup, that was the sequence of the current matter.

BTW I really like nuclearboy's line about jumping head first into a dry pool

You know, many modern songs can be simplistic and even theologically weak; nevertheless, in the simplicity of some of them we find profundity.

Example:

Jesus na you be Ọga
Jesus na you be Ọga
Every other god na so so yẹyẹ
Every other god na so so yẹyẹ

One doesn't readily think about this song in the context of the type of discussion on this thread.

^^ Oga, you were going well but I think you went far too far by insisting on pregnancy before marriage.

^^^ +1

This thing exists on many levels e.g. the dilemma of the case of "Mr. Lagbaja" who has always been a moslem and has four wives. Now he has become a Christian ---- are we going to ask him to divorce three of his wives?

^^^ +1

Whatever was there to gain in burning the Koran? Zilch, nada; rather there is much to lose ---- including people who might even have been considering Christianity.

One for Olaadegbu; nice piece on the Godhead by Dr Kumuyi

God’s Word teaches:

That the Godhead consists of three separate, distinct, and recognizable personalities and qualities, perfectly united in one.  The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are different Persons in the Godhead, not merely three names for one Person (Matthew 3:16,17; Il Corinthians 13:14; Matthew 28:19,20).

also

The Godhead is a great mystery, which is clearly beyond the finite mind of the unsaved, natural man (I Corinthians 2:14). The believer accepts the gospel truth of the Trinity by faith, recognizing that God remains the eternal repository of all mysteries (Deuteronomy 29:29); that with respect to His being or essence, God is one; with respect to His personality. God is three; and the essence must neither be divided nor the persons confused. In spite of the great mystery surrounding it, the doctrine of the Godhead has always proved to be eminently rich in spiritual and practical values. And for all those willing, the Lord Jesus Christ promises the advent of a blissful reign by the Godhead (John 14:23; Revelation 3:20).

From  http://www.dclm.org/AboutUs/WhatWeBelieve/TheGodHead/tabid/160/Default.aspx

egift:
A false, attention-seeking, prophet of Doom. Now you have got your 1 week of fame! I don't know why many use their brain upside-down.

His deluded mind/pocket "God" also told him who it is. Blood sucker - he wants Nigeria in flames. He should crawl back to whatever cave he came out from.

Prophet me foot!

And he cannot lose! If nothing happens, he will say it is because people prayed after his "prophecy"; if he gets lucky, he will say "I told you so". Either way the fellow has now come to national attention.

Reminds me of the other mendacious fellow who said satan had planned 49 plane crashes for Nigeria!

I also think it is worth repeating the reference to 1 Cor 8; indeed I first quoted that passage on page 1 of this thread https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-512364.0.html#msg6746801

1 Cor 8:4-6

. . . we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one.  For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

The interesting thing with this passage is that if we agree with Joagbaje and co who say that the original writings did not use capitals and thus did not distinguish between "god" and "God" then their claim or that of anyone or anything else to be "god" is completely blown out of the water unless you do not accept the passage.

Let us use just the small "g" to see the import. The passage says there is only one god; any other thing or person called "god" is only so-called, ergo is false, ergo is a false god.

aletheia:
. . .

Now consider the example of the Apostles of Christ and the holy Angels: never once did they declare that they were gods (I challenge you to show from their epistles any where they said Christians are gods) but rather they became extremely distressed when men suggested that they were and emphatically rejected it stating that they were men:

Acts 10:25-26. And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

Acts 14:11,14-15.  And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. . .Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

Rev 19:10. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it  not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Rev 22:8-9. And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

^^Look at that! An apostle: John himself, who leaned on the bosom of our Lord, was so overcome by the grandeur and majesty of the angel that he almost considered the angel a god. And yet this doesn't tell you anything? You are not afraid to propagate an error that the apostles denied by word and example and that even angels shy away from.

Well they did say: Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

I really like this bit that I've extracted very much and had been thinking of some of the examples myself contrasting them with the delusions of these WoFers.

^^^ Amen.

Those interested in the claims of Jesus, especially as to His divinity, may find the following link helpful.

http://www.gospelway.com/god/jesus_claims.php

Many people think of Jesus as a great religious teacher and even a prophet, but not the Divine Son of God. What did He really claim? Did He accept claims that He was the Christ, the Divine Son of God in the flesh, eternal, and our Savior? Did He believe people must believe in Him and obey Him to be saved and receive eternal life? Did He accept worship? Some people that believe these claims were first made for Him by His followers long after He died. Please consider this study of the claims of Jesus.

Now the Trinity doctrine says that not only is Jesus the Son of God but also that Jesus is God, as the Father is God and as the Holy Spirit is God.

Some people say, hang on but Jesus never said He was God or call Himself God.

Of course Jesus did say He was God and call Himself God. He called Himself I am; when He called Himself "Son of God" to the Jews, they understood that He was really calling Himself God which is why they wanted to stone Him dead --- the punishment for the  blasphemy of calling oneself God!

Anyway, all that is about the incarnate Jesus. The risen, glorified and ascended Jesus also called Himself God. Already we see an indication when He spoke to Paul in his Damascene experience: "Why do you persecute ME?

In revelation Jesus spoke clearly and expressly that He is God.

Rev 1:8

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,"  says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

The Almighty ---------------- Yea, Amen let heaven and earth adore thee!

Yea, Amen! let all adore Thee,
High on Thine eternal throne;
Savior, take the power and glory,
Claim the kingdom for Thine own;
O come quickly! O come quickly! O come quickly!
Everlasting God, come down!

Joagbaje:
Nuclearboy.
Can God give birth to anything less than himself?

Yes, absolutely - like a born again man! He is less than God; he is not God and he is not "a god"!

He gave birth to Jesus. He gave birth to me.

Did God give birth to you in exactly the same way he "gave birth" to Jesus?

Who is  the God of Jesus?  = Jehovah
Who is my God?                 = Jehovah
Who is the father of Jesus ?= Jehovah
Who is my  father?            = Jehovah

John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

OK, let's say true enough but is this sufficient proof that you are a god, God or "divine"?

We all eternally existed in God.

OK: would you say you existed before Adam? Second, if we are following your presumed logic here what about the following, did they also exist "eternally" in God: Satan, demons, animals etc?

We are spirits. Or let me speak for myself. I am a spirit beng and not a body. God is a spirit also. If I am created in his image ,then I'm a spirit as well. I have a physical body to function in this material realm of life. The body is not the me ( as altheia erroneously believe.). I've been chosen from the foundation of the world.I eternally existed in the father.

Indeed God is a spirit; that you too are a spirit in a body --- is that enough to make you "a god", God or "divine"?

. . . . 1 Corinthians 3:3
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas[ there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


Its worthy to note here that the greek word here for "men" is  which means , a human being. We need to understand how God sees us. A Christian is not a man! . He is deity in human flesh. As we grow into his fulness, we lay aside all human appetite. Christianity is putting off humanity and putting on divinity.I'm the embodiment of God. He lives and manifest himself through me.

What exactly is "deity"? It is funny you use "appetite"; I imagine the day would come when as a "deity" you will not need to eat food or drink anything? Or is your own type of "deity" such that cannot do without food and water?

2 Peter 1:4
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature---. 
 

First, this passage talks of promises and by the promises you might be partakers ---- essentially a future event. However, granted that the Holy Spirit now given is given to the Christian as a deposit, with fulness yet to come, yes we can say that a Christian even now is a partaker of the divine nature. But does that make  him "a god" or God? Of course, you ignore the passages before and after 2 Peter 1:4 --- which is not surprising because you even ignore the first part of the verse itself.
Verse 3

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

See, God (i.e. the Trinity not you) is the one with divine power; the purpose of the promises to make a Christian a partaker of the divine nature is for the purpose of godliness as the verse above indicates. The passages after verse 4 then lists the things which are expected: virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness, charity.

Do you even know what it is to live by the Spirit? Do you know what is to always be filled by the Spirit? Is it not in part to comply with the above? Does being filled with the Spirit make you "a god", "divine" or God?

Keep deluding yourself, o thou man of the flesh!

Jesus once called Peter Satan. Because satan tried to use peter to stop Jesus from his assignment .

Matthew 16:22-23
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

The same principle applies to a man that has the spirit of God in him.

If only you could be more clear on what you are driving at --- what same principle? I'll leave this until you clarify.

Jesus was born of God, I am born of God

Even if we agree that you are born of God, as I said before, was Jesus born of God in the same way as you? I know you WoFers say Jesus was born again; please confirm whether you personally believe that Jesus was born again.

Jesus was born of the the word, I was born of the word too.

Could you explain when and how Jesus was born of "the word"; I thought He Himself was the Word?

Jesus needed the holyspirit to function, I received the same holy spirit to function.

But are you part of the Trinity and do you have the same relationship to the Holy Spirit that Jesus and the Father have?

He was crucified, buried , defeated Satan, resurrected and his is seated at the righthand of God. Likewise me.

Of course he was crucified buried and resurrected and it is elementary that we died with Him and rose with Him ---- but then what is the basis of your deluded claim that you are also seated at the right hand of God? Of course you are so presumptive as blithely to claim to know better than Jesus Himself who said to "Mother Zebedee": ". . .but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.’”

See what is recommended in one of the epistles: Col 3:1 - If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Is this not what Peter was saying above about the power given to live unto godliness ---- wherein you only lay claim to a divine nature? If you already have it, then why should you be seeking the things which are above? Why does it only say that Christ sits at the right hand of God --- why does it not say that you or anyone else is already at the right hand of the Father. I realise you WoFers have a penchant for calling things that be not as though they (already) are; but it would do you well to be patient, to realise that some of these promises are not fully realised while we are still on this earth but after translation into glory.

Everything jesus achieved  was not for himself but for me. I am not his rival. I was created in him. Iam in him . I have his glory, his power, his fulness, his life. Christ is my life. He is divine , I am divine too. Jesus is my brother.

Thanks indeed to the Lord Jesus Christ for what He has done for us; however, I really don't think you realise the full meaning of "divinity" or what it is to be "divine". To be spiritual is not necessarily to be divine.

[flash=500,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g7jEyonsqs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_GB" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed>[/flash]

@ Last two posters

Did you guys see post no. 12?

The thing is not any Islamic thing; they are "street magicians" doing show for money -  including the BOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any one old enough to remember those 'rẹnu rẹnu' people in Naija?

Image123:
. . .  "there's nothing they can't make in china".

[Old joke alert]

One young boy in a certain part of our country was asked in primary school class: What is the opposite of "original"?

Clever and experienced as he is he replied:




Taiwan!!!

[/Old joke]

I did not say "separate and distinct"; I said separable and inseparable. Don't worry, take your time to digest it. 

EDITED

In the Christian expression "begotten not made" is a technical expression to distinguish between "generation" and "creation".

While a thing can be created using 'existing tools' the 'creation' is outside the creator. In the case of 'generation' on the other hand, the generation is from within the generator and, as such, has always existed with the generator.

One person puts it this way (though the pettifogger can quibble with some bits):

In the case of Christ it is completely logical to say that He existed from all eternity in some form in the Father before He was begotten as God. In fact, in John 1:18 Scripture teaches that Christ is the "only begotten God" (this is the literal translation from the Greek New Testament). The word "begotten" in the passage comes from a Greek word from which we get our English word "generate". To "generate" means to "bring forth" out of pre-existing substance, whereas "to create" means to "bring forth" out of nothing. Just as sunlight is generated (begotten) from the Sun but is not created by the Sun, so, too, Christ was generated (begotten) from the Father but was not created by the Father. Amen!! Amen!!

http://www.ideamarketers.com/?Christ_Was_Begotten_-_Not_Created_&articleid=100113&from=PROFILE