₦airaland Forum

dappa71:
OKAY. First see whether you can erase 1Corinthians 5:11-13 from the Bible nd then we can talk, so until then Mr “atheist-Christian” I bid you a good evening.

somehow JW think flinging bible verses around make them great. But at the end of the day, those verses you people throw around says nothing except with your "unique interpretation" of them. You just flung 1 cor 5:11-13 at me to explain someone whose family abandon because he/she took a blood transfusion. But in nowhere in those verses is it mentioned that taking a blood transfusion is reason for any action.

At the end of the day, what calls for taking some action against that person who subscribed to a blood transfusion is not the biblical texts you flung out, but the unique JW interpretation of that text (interpretations that entails intricate explanations, complex combinations of text, and even mental gymnastics)

Lastly, what did you think you achieved by throwing the label of" atheist-christian" at me?

dappa71:
Beer parlor gists and imaginary conspiracies!

People make decisions regarding their healthcare everyday.

A person’s healthcare decisions can be influenced by lifestyle, culture, religion or personal ethics—quoted from [url]betterhealth.vic.gov.au[/url] website

Eomajeh, people out there are of age to decide what they want for themselves so leave sentiments aside and face the facts. An individual may decide to object to general/complete anesthesia during surgery and opt for a more suitable sedation, or in extreme cases, even include end-of-life procedures in the event of a surgery, i.e. euthanasia which are all binding by a durable power of attorney document. These are decisions people make out there due to their personal reasons. I’m not saying it has anything to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses generally.

Now, when it comes to the Witnesses however, each person chooses to object to blood transfusions in the event of a surgery and this is binding by a durable power of attorney document. So there’s no two ways about it. As a doctor, try and violate the person’s rights and na lawsuit go dey find you.

People have a right to make decisions... so said the woman who locked her 5 yr old step-daughter in a closet for 3 weeks with no food or water just because the little girl wet the bed. She maintained that she had the right to discipline the girl... to help her stop a bad habit

People have a right to make decisions... that can be said of the People's Temple victims who drank that poison at the urging of their pastor. They can say "it is my life, and it is my decision to end it".

But that step-mother will be called wicked, and society will call for the sensible thing of protecting the little girl.
Yes, those People's Temple church victims are remembered as brain-washed fanatics, and society has always called for the protection of the unsuspecting from brain-washing and radicalization of every form.


So yes, just as people have rights
the govt also has the duty of protecting its people, even if it's from themselves

dappa71:
eomajeh: “...many family relationships are currently being destroyed by the shunning practice urged by the witness leadership...”

Jehovah is the God of the JWs so we work with his own wisdom which is higher than ours. Isaiah 55:9
That’s why sometimes it’s difficult for those who are not Witnesses to comprehend why certain things take place and so they brand it as “extremism”.

Jehovah said to his people in ancient times that love for him must come first before love for family members. Deuteronomy 6:4
That is, if a person commits a detestable sin that is deserving of death and a family relative gets to hear of it, he/she is the first person that must stone such a family member to death. Deuteronomy 13:6-11
The reason? So that such a person does not become a corrupting influence in the land of Israel. Deuteronomy 17:7b
Do you think that was extremism or divine wisdom?

As for the Christians, the Mosaic Law no longer applied to them since Christ blotted out the Law with his sacrificial death. Romans 10:4, Colossians 2:14
But still, the principles behind the Mosaic Law were still applicable.

Hence, love for Jehovah our God must come first before love for any family member, be it wife, husband, child, mother, father, brother, sister cousin etc. Matthew 10:37, Mark 12:29

So if a family member in the faith commits a grevious sin such as the ones listed at 1Corinthians 6:9,10 & Galatians 5:19-21, he/she in the household who hears of it must report to the elders in the congregation(Leviticus 5:1) that is, after giving the person time to report himself. Then congregational action is taken and if the person proves to be unrepentant of his sins after several attempts at readjusting him(Galatians 6:1), then such a person is disfellowshiped from the congregation. 1Corinthians 5:11-13

The reason? So that such a person does not become like leaven or gangrene, i.e. a corrupting influence around others in the congregation. 1Corinthians 5:6

Do you think that’s extremism? Or is that a standard set by Jehovah our God in the scriptures? Hebrews 12:6-8
This arrangement is actually a very loving arrangement, so that the person who faulted God’s law can come back to his senses and realize his mistakes.(Luke 15:18) so that Jehovah our God can forgive him in a large way. Isaiah 1:18, 55:7

One of the reasons why Jehovah’s organization is spiritually clean is because we hold high moral standards(Matthew 5:13-16, 1Peter 2:12) so God’s holy spirit will not be active in an unclean organization. Galatians 5:22-23

Of course, you will have a defense for your JW practices. Anyone can quote verses and interpret them however they want to support their position. It comes down to interpretation of text.


I'll not go into what interpretation of biblical verses is right and which is wrong; But know this:
when Muslims at the urging of an Islamic cleric descend on and kill someone for blasphemy, you will cry-out "extremism".

The irate muslim may quote verses in their holy books to support their position; but you will not say "it is a standard established in their holy book". You will not say "the mob action is a nice move that will prevent the slain person from becoming a corrupting influence and leading others astray"


f

typical example of JW practices tearing up family relationships

Felimax:
It took hospital management quite a task to get through this. She is barely 20 and dying and what she needed to foster her treatment was just blood, the family kept insisting no blood but doctor knows she is an adult and can speak for herself and she inquired from her if she want to be alive and she said yes, though she could barely talk but she craved for anything that will keep her alive. At this time, just because she agreed on blood transfusion they all abadoned her, with what i saw at the NNPC medical center i doubet if she can go more than 24 hours.
Long story cut short, she was giving blood and she made it.
Presently, she is among the non witness member of her family.

u're welcome

Authoreety:
Thanks for clearing us

reply of the legends from a legend

this will help you understand why the Russian government is doing what it is doing to the JW religious group.

Fact 1: until the September 11 2001 attacks, the Jonestown tragedy of Nov 18 1978 represented the largest number of American civilian casualties in a single non-natural event.
Fact 2: that fateful day, acting on the urging of their leader, more than 900 Americans (belonging to a religious group called the Peoples Temple church) died after drinking a poisonous substance
Fact 3: the People’s Temple was a church with progressive ideals. With members coming from a diverse mix of racial backgrounds, the church pioneered racial integration years before U.S. desegregation law. The church performed altruistic deeds for the community, establishing social service programs for drug addiction, poverty and battered women.

One big lesson from the Jonestown tragedy is that sometimes people need to be saved from themselves. It is for this reason that suicide is considered a crime in most societies.

Why this back-tracking to the People’s Temple church and its 1978 brohaha? Let’s do some retracing.
Fact 3: The Jehovah’s Witnesses can be described as a church (or organization as it describes itself) with progressive ideals. With members coming from a diverse mix of racial backgrounds, the church (or organization) is fostering integration even as discrimination threatens to tear society apart. Its members are peace-loving people who perform altruistic deeds for the community, with many turning their lives around by getting off drugs and crime.
Fact 2: the Jehovah’s witnesses act on the urgings of their leaders without question. For example: the JW leaders interpreted some bible portions to say organ transplant is scripturally wrong, and all witnesses accepted without questions and complied. Then the leaders came again and said organ transplant is fine, and all witnesses re-adjusted without question and complied. Now the leaders interpret some bible verses to say blood transfusion is scripturally wrong, and all witnesses accept without question and comply. If the leaders come tomorrow and say blood transfusion is fine, all witnesses will readjust and comply.
Fact 1: these urgings of JW leadership cloaked as “present truths” have caused a lot of evils, such as causing deaths to many, and tearing families apart. For example: many witnesses died for refusing organ transplant as urged by their leadership, many witnesses are dying now for refusing blood transfusion as urged by their leadership, many family relationships are currently being destroyed by the shunning practice urged by the witness leadership, etc

Why will peace-loving people be treated as they are by the Russian government? Sometimes people have to be saved from themselves.

The Russian government realizes that some of the ideas of the witnesses are extremist and actually cause evils. Thus, the govt is moving to save these people from themselves. However, that is not to say that the Russian government is going about it the right way. But I sure do understand why they are doing it

this will help you understand why the Russian government is doing what it is doing to JW.

Fact 1: until the September 11 2001 attacks, the Jonestown tragedy of Nov 18 1978 represented the largest number of American civilian casualties in a single non-natural event.
Fact 2: that fateful day, acting on the urging of their leader, more than 900 Americans (belonging to a religious group called the Peoples Temple church) died after drinking a poisonous substance
Fact 3: the People’s Temple was a church with progressive ideals. With members coming from a diverse mix of racial backgrounds, the church pioneered racial integration years before U.S. desegregation law. The church performed altruistic deeds for the community, establishing social service programs for drug addiction, poverty and battered women.

One big lesson from the Jonestown tragedy is that sometimes people need to be saved from themselves. It is for this reason that suicide is considered a crime in most societies.

Why this back-tracking to the People’s Temple church and its 1978 brohaha? Let’s do some retracing.
Fact 3: The Jehovah’s Witnesses can be described as a church (or organization as it describes itself) with progressive ideals. With members coming from a diverse mix of racial backgrounds, the church (or organization) is fostering integration even as discrimination threatens to tear society apart. Its members are peace-loving people who perform altruistic deeds for the community, with many turning their lives around by getting off drugs and crime.
Fact 2: the Jehovah’s witnesses act on the urgings of their leaders without question. For example: the JW leaders interpreted some bible portions to say organ transplant is scripturally wrong, and all witnesses accepted without questions and complied. Then the leaders came again and said organ transplant is fine, and all witnesses re-adjusted without question and complied. Now the leaders interpret some bible verses to say blood transfusion is scripturally wrong, and all witnesses accept without question and comply. If the leaders come tomorrow and say blood transfusion is fine, all witnesses will readjust and comply.
Fact 1: these urgings of JW leadership cloaked as “present truths” have caused a lot of evils, such as causing deaths to many, and tearing families apart. For example: many witnesses died for refusing organ transplant as urged by their leadership, many witnesses are dying now for refusing blood transfusion as urged by their leadership, many family relationships are currently being destroyed by the shunning practice urged by the witness leadership, etc

Why will peace-loving people be treated as they are by the Russian government? Sometimes people have to be saved from themselves.

The Russian government realizes that some of the ideas of the witnesses are extremist and actually cause evils. Thus, the govt is moving to save these people from themselves. However, that is not to say that the Russian government is going about it the right way. But I sure do understand why they are doing it.

really funny channel to subscribe too. nice one

eomajeh:
I do agree with you that many today read the bible to support their own view of worship. It is the sad reality of the day. However, it is a lesser evil compared to what the JWs do, which is changing the bible to support their belief.

As one example: look up Gen 8:22.

The older New World Translation (what is called the JW bible) reads: "For all the days the earth continues, seed sowing and harvest..." The expression "for all the days the earth continues", which is translated "while the earth remaineth" in the KJV gives the impression of finite existence.
However, the JW do not believe that the earth have a finite existence, but that it will remain forever. So what do the JW do? In the 2015 revision of the NWT, they change the reading of Gen 8: 22 to: "From now on, the earth will never cease to have seed sowing and harvest..."

The expression "from now on" gives the impression of unending existence. Now the bible suit their belief. They did this (change the expression from one that represent the earth as having finite existence to one that represent the earth as having unending existence) despite that the Hebrew expression in the original texts ('erets yowm) literally means "earth days".

It is one thing to read a bible passage and say "this is how it should be understood", it is another thing to change the bible passage to what you understand it to be.

So while one low that most christian religious groups sink to is to interpret bible passages to suit their peculiar beliefs; JW sometimes sink lower by actually changing bible passages to suit their peculiar belief.


.

sorry i digressed from the subject of this thread (which is JWs & prophets). I just couldn't help but drop this when i saw that quote from our dear Haddeylium

haddeylium:
That cartoon is just the pictorial reality of today. Many People read the Bible to support their own view of worship.
Who's ready to change when the Bible challenge his belief?

I do agree with you that many today read the bible to support their own view of worship. It is the sad reality of the day. However, it is a lesser evil compared to what the JWs do, which is changing the bible to support their belief.

As one example: look up Gen 8:22.

The older New World Translation (what is called the JW bible) reads: "For all the days the earth continues, seed sowing and harvest..." The expression "for all the days the earth continues", which is translated "while the earth remaineth" in the KJV gives the impression of finite existence.
However, the JW do not believe that the earth have a finite existence, but that it will remain forever. So what do the JW do? In the 2015 revision of the NWT, they change the reading of Gen 8: 22 to: "From now on, the earth will never cease to have seed sowing and harvest..."

The expression "from now on" gives the impression of unending existence. Now the bible suit their belief. They did this (change the expression from one that represent the earth as having finite existence to one that represent the earth as having unending existence) despite that the Hebrew expression in the original texts ('erets yowm) literally means "earth days".

It is one thing to read a bible passage and say "this is how it should be understood", it is another thing to change the bible passage to what you understand it to be.

So while one low that most christian religious groups sink to is to interpret bible passages to suit their peculiar beliefs; JW sometimes sink lower by actually changing bible passages to suit their peculiar belief.


.

haddeylium:
Good!
You grabbed my point!
I'll not call Jehovah's witnesses are prophet also because
They never claim that they bring their surmises 'In the name of Jehovah'
They never claimed that they are inspired or their articles and surmises are inspired. They're are just giving out their understanding of their study in the Bible.
They are acknowledge that they're infallible and their surmises might be wrong also.

Now, you understand?
Have a great day

How do you say they never claim that they bring their surmises "in the name of Jehovah", when they called the 1914 date they pushed "God's date, not ours"? Are you saying that they should have said we bring this 1914 date to you in the name of Jehovah?

How do you say they never claimed to be inspired when they said they are modern-day Ezekiel? Or are you saying ancient Ezekiel was just giving out his understanding?

How do you say they never claimed to be inspired when they say the "sayings" come from God's only channel of communication to mankind, and it's God's provision of meat in due season"?

How do you say they "acknowledge that their surmises may go wrong" when they represent those who do not accept those surmising as spiritually weak and lacking in faith?

I can't have enough of this video. Gets me cracking everytime

funny. you really made me laugh from something so simple

haddeylium:
Take my advice. You don't need this stories, Jehovah's witnesses know what they believe and what is funny is when you're trying to tell us what our beliefs are .
Save yourself the stress of long history. I don't think any of us is interested.
I've given you the explanation to the article you misconstrued. We cannot force you to accept.

People like you will call weather reporter a prophet..Right?
They study the current atmosphere, temperature, humidity and Forecast the weather. Are they Prophet in that sense?
please, let's be civilised.
Jehovah's Witnesses studied the messages in the Bible aswell and gives their surmises .They even made it known that neither governing Body nor any other person today is a divinely inspired prophet.

So many times the 'weather forecasters' failed in their predictions. Can we call them a failed Prophets too?

Certainly, the reason why you keep saying that we consider ourselves prophets is that you wish we had that belief so that you could easily demonstrate that we are wrong.Nahhhh

No, I will not call weather forecasters prophets because:
(i) they do not say the forecasts are "God's forecast, not theirs"
(ii) they do not claim that they are God's only channel of communication and that their forecasts are God's provided meat in due season for mankind
(iii) they do not represent people who do not accept their forecast as spiritually weak and lacking in faith

If weather forecasters do the above-listed, then they are very well representing themselves as prophets

Janosky:
The word prophet is written with scare quote sign " " . The Watchtower said:
'This "prophet" was a small group of men and women'
The Watchtower didn't say " The Prophet...."

The Watchtower of 1972 attached a scare quote " " on the word, Prophet.
JWs,we do not believe we are prophets.


Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages

scare quotes
noun
noun: scare quote
quotation marks placed round a word or phrase to draw attention to an unusual or arguably inaccurate use.
"putting the term “global warming” in scare quotes serves to subtly cast doubt on the reality of such a phenomenon."

Achorladey, learn the difference between scare quote & and other forms of quote.
Don't mislead yourself and others with misinformation.

Jonosky, it is true that JWs can point to many quotations in their publications to the effect that they have always said they are not prophets, and that they are not infallible.
However, it is also true that in that Watchtower of 1972, it is said that the JWs are prophet. The article is clear in saying that:
This “prophet” was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses. They are still proclaiming a warning…
If I get you well, you saying that the article put the word prophet in scare quotes is to say that some may view the JWs as acting like prophets (at least in some capacity), but the JWs themselves do not see themselves as prophets.
For argument’s sake, let’s dismiss that Watchtower of 1972. Then we’ll have no other published statement (at least, to my knowledge) that JWs are prophets, but there will remain numerous statements of them saying they do not give out prophesy, and that they are not infallible.

However, these statements that JWs do not prophesy are empty (and dishonest). This is because:
(i) they put out their speculations (or surmising) as forcefully as the prophecies of any “prophets”. Just look at my earlier comment for some of the statements made when they were pushing the 1914 date as the end of the world’s systems.
How do you say you are not giving out prophecy when you say that the date you are pushing is “God’s date, not ours”?
(ii) the source of the speculations (or surmising) represent itself as God’s only true channel of communication – the only channel through which God provides his children on earth “meat in due season”
How do you say you are not giving out prophecy when you say you are a god-directed source, and that what you are pushing is God’s divinely provided meat in due season?
(iii) the source of the speculations (surmising) represents those who doubt the speculation as being spiritually weak and without faith.
How do you say you are not giving out prophesy when you call out my spiritually and faith for refusing to accept your speculations?

So dear Janosky, even if the 1972 watchtower is dismissed; and even with the numerous quotations that the JWs have made about them not prophesying, it is clear to all that want to see. Those statements about them not prophesying are just disclaimers. That is, when the JWs “prophesies” fail, they can point to those statements and say “we didn’t say we are prophets. We didn’t say we are infallible”. That is only being clever (albeit dishonestly).

JW commonly say that unlike most religious organizations, they acknowledge their error. As you [Haddeylium] said “we are prepared to change if we find out we were incorrect”. Is this really true??

Did you know that when addressing the failure of the 1914 prophecy/ surmising, the book which was the official history of the JW organization (Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Divine Purpose) says in page 52: “There is no doubt that many throughout this period were overzealous in their statements as to what could be expected. Some read into the Watchtower statements that were never intended…” Haddeylium, that is not acknowledgement of error, but an effort to push the blame on others by saying that any strong expectations or dogmatic claims were the responsibility of the readers.

In the foreword of the book “The Time Is At Hand”, do you know how the JW addressed the failure of the 1914 failure?
They said the thought was presented that the Lord’s saints was expected to be with HIM in glory, but the Lord overruled it for the blessing of HIS people. It added that the 1914 time prediction” had a very stimulating and sanctifying effect upon thousands. All of whom can praise the Lord – even for the mistake”. It continued that “many can be thankful to the Lord that 1914 did not mark the end as expected, as that gives further opportunities of perfecting holiness.
Haddeylium, is that a frank and honest admission of error? DENY IT AS YOU MAY, BUT IT IS NOT because (i) first, they blamed God for overruling the false predictions (ii) then the moved to find merit in the false predictions.

haddeylium:
Many people claimed that JWs do not believe in the gift of prophesy as seen today and they also say that JWs are false prophets because they suppossedly have prophesied things that didn’t happen. Yea, this inconsistencies do not flow together.
Out of fairness to the honesthearted people that might be interested in answer, let's examine the facts more closely.

Are Jehovah's Witnesses prophets?

The simple answer is NO!
Never have we claimed to giving out a prophesy ‘in the name of Jehovah'. Infact many of our official journal have said the following;

"We have not the gift of prophecy.” (January 1883, page 425)

“Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible.” (December 15, 1896, page 306)

And Our Watchtower article, however having Jehovah's holyspirit -;

does not mean those now serving as Jehovah’s witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes.” (May 15, 1947, page 157)

“The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic.” (August 15, 1950, page 263)

“The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers.-2 Timothy 3:16 And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. Proverbs 4:18 ”​—February 15, 1981, page 19.

Closer examination shows that never once has the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization claimed to be prophets.

But? Why do people call them a Failed prophets? Do they want to make them one so they can use that adjective? Have they prophesied wrongly in the past?

Haddeylium, did you say “never once has the Jehovahs Witnesses organization claimed to be prophets”?
In your defence, you brought up quotations from some old JW publications where they say “they have not the gift of prophecy”, “their writings should not be reverenced or regarded as infallible”, “their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and other bible writers”, etc.

True, the JWs write that they are not giving out prophecies. However, I bet you do not know that in the April 1 1972 Watchtower, the JW call themselves a prophet. On page 197 of that Watchtower, in an article titled “They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them”, a question is raised as to whether in modern times Jehovah God has had a prophet to help the people, “to warn them of dangers and declare things to come”.
The answer given was, yes, that the record showed there was such a prophet. The article continued that the “prophet was not one man, but was a body of men and women. the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian Witnesses”.

JWs say their organization has never given out a prophecy, but had only given out its surmises. But what does the record say?

For example, when the JW organization was “surmising” that the world will end in 1914, these were some of their statements:
• “…we present bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the Gentiles .. will be reached in AD 1914. That date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men” - The Time Is At Hand book
• “within the coming 26 years [from 1889], all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved… We consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God will be accomplished at the end of AD 1914” – The Time Is At Hand, page 98, 99
• “with the end of AD 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call christendom, will have passed away, as already shown from prophecy” – Thy Kingdom Come, page 153
• “The date of the close of that battle is definitely marked in Scripture as October 1914” – WatchTower January 15, 1892
• “We see no reason for changing the figures – nor could we change them if we could. They are, we believe, God’s dates, not ours” - July 15 1894 WatchTower
Also, in an article titled “Knowledge and Faith Regarding Chronology” in the October 1 1907 Watchtower, it was said in so many words that persons doubting the 1914 time predictions are lacking in faith.
Haddeylium, you say JWs have never given out a prophecy “in the name of Jehovah”. What do you call putting forward time predictions with such statements as: it is “God’s dates, not ours”, it is “established truth”, the date is “definitely marked in scripture”, the date is “already shown from prophecy”, etc? DENY IT AS YOU MAY BUT THAT IS GIVING OUT A PROPHECY IN THE NAME OF JEHOVAH.
What do you call it when you smear the faith of persons who refuse to accept your time predictions, and even go as far as comparing them to the 5 foolish virgins who did not keep up the watch? DENY IT AS YOU MAY BUT THAT IS NOT ONLY PROPHESYING BUT BEING DOGMATIC.

No update OP

Mr President is a bandit, and a banner. He bans everything. Very soon, Candy Crush will be on the ban list.

See humorous video of the twitter ban


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBGUW00BZ68

Many will say YES. can't blame them though...
the Lie Lie Moha Moha example says it all

...talk of being true to your "calling"

Epic answer, backed with solid evidence


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHCzh9Uf2AQ

they promised us change....

we got...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYWqtkqCgTw

...change change change. where at thou?

nrexzy:
Oh baby... Have u checked under d bed

... and the back of the cupboard

Jeon:
Which type of man

Married or unmarried.

na true o. the marital status go determine the reply shey?

Xscape1993:
I laugh ooo

thanks bro.

Hope you hit the "subscribe" button.

Tokskob2008:
And they kept to their promise didn't they? Rice from #7,500 to 30k what other change do you want again

this change tie wrapper o

Perfect description of the change we've seen:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYWqtkqCgTw

i really couldn't stop laughing

the hardship now is something else.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9y7DQ35CE4