₦airaland Forum

A40:
Of course its about Pep. Milan lost but that was a Milan side at the end of an era. They had been the best team in Europe since 1989. This is not comparable to a City that was expected to consolidate on last seasons breakthrough. You are comparing for a wrong era anyway. In the times of Ajax and co only the League winner made the CL.

Explain why City is not PSG's mate. I'll wait. You are taking this Pep bias to nuclear levels now. City is fledgling and only just? What do we call Arsenal then? Those ones are still at embryonic stage.

City beat Barca in a group stage match. A game Barca needed 0 points from. You must be having a laugh

City with Nasri, Aguero, David Silva, KDB, Yaya Toure was not easy on the eye? You would soon tell us Fraudiola discovered fire. It's on record that Carlo didn't just win the league but won it in style with the most attacking side the league ever saw. I have told you the ages of key members of that Chelsea squad so struggling the next season was unavoidable. What has been Fraudiola's achievement beside sorrow and disgrace.

Heaviest Defeat - Check
Longest streak without a home win - Check

And I'm sure there would be a lot more to add by season's end.

Don't talk down on Carlo till Pep wins a spoon in England

Lehmann started the first leg. You don't need to come here and tell alternative facts. Hleb was part of the CL run. No? Toure, Fabregas? Gallas didn't play CL footie at Chelsea?

You claimed Ajax lacked experience I have shown you this is false. The players that didn't have CL experience had UEFA cup experience others had International experience. You went to an era where only 1 team made the CL. If that is not dubious I don't know what is. Which player in Monaco can boast of Rijkaard's CV

Iniesta's form is diminishing. This is largely due to age but you claimed Enrique is using Iniesta wrong. Well Pep with his crayfish tactics is also using Kolarov wrong since we are blaming coaches.

Players in their 30's are still capable of genius. Expecting it every 3 days? ROTFLOL

Before I respond to this it is not a Pep vs Ancelotti debate. You know this but want to keep detracting from the real gist because you know you have no defence for Carlo.

Again, Milan were at the end of an era but City are not at the end of the era that began with Mancini? I don't understand this level of double-standardness. Milan won the UCL only the year before but what about City and the EPL? 2 years before and their most recent run had them in 4th but you want to sell the false narrative that they should have consolidated on their semi-final place of the previous year. Sorry but this defies common sense.

Haba, Arsenal and City? I don't believe you asked this question. Arsenal FC is 15 times the club City hopes to be. When did City start appearing in the UCL that they would be anybody's mate? Wow, City is being compared with PSG just because Guardiola is there? Hmmm. SMH.

Don't worry about City beating Barca when Barca needed 0 points. Apart from being a barefaced lie, it has nothing to do with Carlo's work in Bayern. I mentioned it to show you what City never did before Pep. They have had other times in the past were even the type of moral victory you are hoping for Bayern would have sufficed but none came. As long as Barca fielded MSN and a full strength squad your argument is DOA.

You have raised an excuse for a team that just won a league title in CFC under Carlo but insist that a team that finished 2nd and 4th before Pep was not in decline again because of Pep. You are the one who is taking your anti-Pep bias to unseen heights and I don't know how else to show you the flaw in your reasoning.

CFC 1st 2009/10 3rd 2009/10 (unavoidable)
City 2nd 14/15 4th 15/16, 16/17 (should consolidate on semis, beat all teams, win 38 games, finish 1st.)

When you were reeling off heaviest defeat I hope you were not referring to in City's history or anything. Pellegrini lost 4-1 3 times to Spurs and LFC just the season before. In fact, I am getting distracted by all these things as it has nothing to do with Carlo. Carlo had 2 seasons in CFC so to compare him to Pep I have to wait for Peps second. It is not rocket science. Carlo chopped steady Ls himself in his second season to AFC, LFC, United and co. Just wait for the second season and focus on his first season at Bayern.


Jeez what does Lehman have to do with the 2-0 at San Siro? Is that not the game Milan lost? Try again.

I said Ajax lacked experience COMPARED to Milan just like you wanted to argue Monaco lacked experience compared to City. Try again....again.

Since who is blaming coaches? You brought up Iniesta on your own. You have brought up Kolariv now on your own even when it adds nothing to what is being discussed. If Carlo is better than Pep inBayern why did he not rest his 30 year olds against Dortmund so they would be fresh and produce their genius in a span longer than 3 days? Is that not what I have been asking?

A40:
Carlo didn't win La Liga but won a CL and a Cola Del Rey

Carlo went to England won the league and FA cup

What has Pep done since leaving Barca? Shey una talk say Bundesliga no competitive. What has he done in England? Why would you even bring up Ranieri? Were you expecting him to repeat with Leicester?

Wherever Carlo has to reach is immaterial I have listed the teams he would need to beat to get to the Finals anyway. Monaco is certainly inferior to City on paper only Pep fanboys would argue otherwise. Every City fan and most Pep fanboys were delighted at the draw. They underestimated the degree of a fraud Pep was obviously

Of course they were so useless they beat you at the Bridge and you failed to get past them in Camp Nou

Lmaooo Pep would end up like AVB coaching Shaolin soccer. He has been found out. Better take him back at Barca where MSN would cover his yansh. Aboro la so fun omoluabi to ba de inu re a di odindin

All these managers are victims of impatient management. Fraudiola would not survive 2 years at Chelsea, he would lose his love for football altogether. You can see he has aged significantly since arriving England.

Tasteless? Lmao list the incidents and let's compare to 3 stone wall penalties. I dey wait for you to show incidents that can equate to that

I have told you. We can't talk of Finals without beating Madrid, should we do that everything Pep flies out the window. Period

Going for what ball? The rule is lucid. You don't foul a goal bound striker. Was Lewandowski goal bound or not? Lewandowski was adjudged to foul this same Koscielny in the first leg in an instance where he was clearly trying to clear the ball. Did you see any Bayern fan complain?

As for the Madrid game. You could argue about Carvajal's intent or that it was ball to hand but its bleeding obvious that he made contact with the ball with his arms. We have seen Barca awarded less anyway. They don't call y'all UEFALONA for nothing

What is winning UCL and La Copa del Rey? Did he not get fired the following season? Did Pep not win those trophies more than 1ce?

Carlo won league and FA Cup? Next season nko? Ok. So wait for Pep'second season as well. Besides, you know he is in the FA Cup semis? He could win it too. But then it will not count because...fraud.

Was I expecting Ranieri to win it again? But you were expecting City to keep getting to the semi's of the UCL because Pep is involved - see what I mean?

Lol, now where Carlo has to finish is immaterial? So he can lose now and be forgiven after all he lost to RM.

Monaco is inferior on Paper? Like RM were inferior on Paper? Like Polls rated Bayern 72-28 to win the game? Papers were wrong won't you say?

The ifs and maybes have begun. Fraudiola won't survive? Fine. We heard how Carlo would not have lost ahome to Madrid. How Jupp would never do it. Ok. Carlo has done it. That is why I am here. No ifs no maybes. Carlo lost ahome to RM.

Sorry, I can argue that CFC vs Barca game but what does it have to do with Carlo not doing better than Pep which is what I am here for.

Lol, beat Madrid first. Then beat whoever is next. Then you win. That is how it works. Beating top 4 and finishing 4th cannot be better than losing to 4 and winning the league. Like I said, no moral explanations. We need white and black results.

Read me well about Kos I said what was the red card for? Or else every foul in the box should be a red card as that can be argued as a goal scoring chance. Take a look at Crystal Palace vs Arsenal. Penalty no red. It was dubious against Kos and UEFA realized it. So following game Leicester vs Sevilla, they gave the penalty without a red.

Lol @ Carvajals hand. Try his upper arm and close to his shoulder. Try ask ribery why he was laughing and apologizing to Carvajal for the refs gaffe. You are the only one on planet earth that saw it as a penalty but what is the point sef? Carlo did not beat RM in Munich.

A40:
I would point out to the goal because it keeps us in the tie. We are not out yet and I have agreed Carlo has to advance to be adjudged as better than Pep so I am still searching for the source of your agitation

Finished 2nd in a Group? I didn't know group stage finishes count for quarter final draws as well. Smh

Pep only got to the semis because the ping pong ball did not give him Barca, Madrid or Atleti in earlier rounds. Kpokwem

Mandzukic in 2014 was our Lewandowski. I am still at a loss as to why you are listing players who were not on Bayern's payroll. I might as well say we missed Rinaldo

What do you mean by 'this' Monaco? City last year were 4th and knocked out PSG who were 1st. This year City are still 4th and GOT knocked out by Monaco who lead Ligue 1. What's the difference? Pep Fraudiolaaaa

Instrument ko Orchestra ni. Who was arguing about the instrumentality of Muller. He is not even a Bayern starter these days. It is also laughable that you brought up instrumentality of Jesus and Gundogan. How many games and for how many months combined have they been instrumental. Lewy + Muller vs Jesus + Gundogan. The joke writes itself

But you are confidently arguing on a CL tie that is subject to change and on Carlo who is just completing a season at Bayern. Carlo has not done worse

As it stands Pep has lost to every team in the 'current' top 4.

Pep gathering 100 more points is useless. He's still 4th, has won zilch and got knocked out in the 2nd round of the CL to the Bakayoko's of this world. All a significant drop from Pellegrini. How do you say FRAUD in Catalan

The goal keeps you in the tie. But if you win 4-0 second leg with the first leg at 2-0 you would not have gone through? Lol so what is this myth about losing a home game 2-1 and arguing that is keeps you in some tie all because you want to defend Carlo.

No agitation whatsoever. Pep was always at fault but now "Ribery is old, Hummels was missed, Lewa was missed" yet the same you voiced your concerns about Hummels after the AFC tie. LOL. It is all clutching without even shifting gears.

No group stages don't determine quarter final draws but you lost to the same ATM and finished beneath them. Then you lost ahome to the same RM. Hope you are seeing the pattern. You are losing the very same games you hounded Pep for.

Yes he only got to semis because United, Porto, Juventus are not good teams. Yet Juve knocked out Carlo's RM and Pep beat them. But since it was Pep, Juve are minnows.

City knocked out that PSG? Ok good. That PSG is not this Monaco or else Carlo had no business losing to this Rostov since Rostov of last season probably did not even make the UCL. You see why you must adjudicate based on what is in front of you?

We only know Muller has not been instrumental because of his current form. Before Gundogan and Jesus got injured they were featuring and delivering the goods. There is nothing that suggests Lewa would have scored yesterday so summing his goal tally with respect to what Gundogan and Jesus may have done for City is disingenuous. The guy who scored for you the other day is Vidal. The team you had yesterday did not have Lewa and Mandzukic that Pep had is not as good as Lewa. So no need in telling us Hummels and co did not play to excuse Carlo. Now you get it.

I don't understand, Carlo is not done with a season but Pep is done with this season? The tie is not over for Carlo? Did anybody say it is? No. I said if he loses to RM then it proves that Pep was not the problem all along because we have seen that Bayern don't play better under Carlo and it appears like the results may justify it.

LOL to judge a team in a league is to compare their head to head against current top 4? Then they better give Klopp the EPL title. Hahahaha.

A40:
Pep has not won any title Ancelotti did not win. And he did it without Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. If you mention La Liga I would counter you with EPL so hold that thought.

Pep has improved on zilch, nada, zero. City won a title, got to the CL semis and did not get eliminated by AS goddamn Monaco last year. Fraudiola lost to an inferior Monaco in the 2nd round, is still 4th in the league, lost to every team in the top 4 and failed to beat any. In what alternate universe can that be termed improvement?

Bayern were leading the league at the winter break, got to a CL Final in Jupp's debut. 2013 was not a fluke we were not far away from a treble in 2012. Its comedic that you are using that as a reference point for Pep. If you think that is what would happen with City next year you are in for an unpleasant shock

I'm still trying to understand what LVG and Porto have to do with Pep's incompetence. Ancelotti's CL record isn't flawless. He has blown huge leads in the past. But nobody hypes him like Pep

Dortmund's error was going into that game that quickly. Is it not who is alive that would play football. If Monaco get to the semis good on them. That does not excuse Pep's failure. Sorry

Of course I have to list the players before you try to puff up Fraudiola's achievements. He still needed Ovrebo to get past Chelsea denying them 3 point blank penalties. Ovrebo cannot ref an Under 13 girls match anymore never mind a CL match.

Koscielny prevented a goal bound striker from advancing what should the ref had blown? Goal kick?

Unless Carlo loses the league title it cannot be objectively argued he has done worse than Fraudiola

How many La Liga seasons did Carlo have? Good, now juxtapose it with how many EPL seasons Pep has played in. I don't jump about one-season wonders. Where is Ranieri today?

CFC won UCL 2012 so they should have won 2013 too. Bayern got to Semis in 2016 so Carlo must get to the final in 2017 too. AS Monaco (almost sure-fire semifinalsts are now inferior because na Pep them beat. Exactly what I said).

Hahahaha, Jesus see achievements for Jupp. Bayern were winter champions and got hammered by Dortmund in the DFB-Pokal finals. Also got beat by a useless CFC side. Should I also say Pep was first in the EPL after 10 games? Will it count as an achievement? The same way Jupp, Klopp, Rodgers, LVG, Pochettino had better 2nd seasons, watch Pep in his 2nd season. Mancini, Pellegrini, Carlo, Ranieri are examples of one-season wonders who got sacked the following year. Just chill.

All that talk about Ovrebo is tasteless because Pep did not influence it. I could have counted how many times Barca got cheated in that same game but what good will it do? This is not about Pep no matter how you try to change it. Carlo has never been helped or lucky sure. Oya, get to the UCL final and show Pep what he does not know. Simples.

So Kos fouled a striker by genuinely going for the ball. What was the red card for? Before you respond, the very next day Sevilla gets awarded a similar penalty against Leicester but no red card was given. Only problem is the ref of the Bayern game was not called Ovrebo. Neither was the one who wanted to give Bayern an imaginary penalty against RM called Ovrebo. But all those instances are immaterial because they did not happen to a Pep coached team. Then Porto and United with strong UCL history will become moin moin teams.

A40:
Yes Milan had more experience. No one excused Milan either. It was an upset and upsets are allowed to happen in sports but claiming Ajax had no experience is laughable. Not with Rijkaard in the squad and 3 players who had won the UEFA Cup a full 3 years ago as well as Litmanen and Finidi.

Haha City is about the same level as PSG. They are borderline elite and would be regular CL quarterfinalists if not for getting drawn with Barca. However thanks to a fraud like Pep that theory is now in doubt. Edifice ko Edmilson ni. City have always been one of the most attacking and easiest teams on the eye unless where faced with a Madrid, Barca or Bayern. Tell your Pep to carry his dodo ikire elsewhere. Carlo came to England and beat the top 4 home and away in his debut season. Fraudiola's debut season. 4 losses, 2 draws. Isu no be cocoyam

I mentioned 5 proven players yet you skipped them and jumped to Senderos and Adebayor. An arugbo Milan team who finished 20 something points behind their league winner. Don't paint that 08 team as some all conquering side we know better.

I am not making excuses I am stating facts! Robben and Ribery at 30 is different from Robben and Ribery at 34. As for Iniesta didn't he go a full year without a goal or assist? You mean you are blaming Iniesta's poor form on Enrique's tactics? Jesu oh! You would soon blame Enrique for the War in Syria

If nobody is making an argument for Milan then your argument is dead. Because City lost to Monaco and it could qualify as an upset but you want to magnify it because it is Pep. Besides, The UEFA Cup is not the Champions league please, ask Sevilla.

In what world is City PSG's mate my good lord? They are not near or about anything. City is fledgling and only just. Thank God last season wasn't Pellegrini's first with them. I like how Barca and RM become big clubs only when Pep is not playing against them or would you remember that City had not beaten Barca till he came? Lol.

City attacking? Yes. Easiest on the eye? Hahahahahahahahahaaha. Carlo beat top 4 home and away? Why did you not say top 5? Lol. Carlo won the league that is what he did. Beating top 4is neither here nor there. Then came his 2nd season how many did he beat then? That is why I told you to wait till Pep's time there is up because if he ends up beating top 6 and wins the league his 2 years would be better than Carlo's.

You mentioned players that were either unproven or no longer featuring. Lehman did not even play against Milan and Hleb was what? Proven by who? What is our concern if Milan finished 20 points behind did they not win UCL a year before? If Litmanen and co in Ajax had won UEFA Cup 3 years ago but you adduce it as a reason that they had cognate experience why should UCL-winning Milan only a year before get a pass? Let me guess, because Pep did not manage the team. If he did you would have called him a failure for not winning the UCL again and say someone else won it before him. You won't remember age of the players or if they were declining.

I don't understand again. Did anyone mention Iniesta as a reason Barca lost? No, we blamed the coach without excusing Iniesta's age. But you want to clutch on to Robben and Ribery being 30+ when you did not remember it when they were raping Arsenal and Dortmund.

A40:
O ga ju. You would soon ask me why the vulture is bald. Even the worst Enrique critic can tell the difference between a player letting his team down and Enrique's tactics not working else you lot would not be questioning his quality

We actually scored a goal. And put enough pressure on Madrid to win a penalty. All in 45 mins. You can tell me what was the outcome of the corresponding fixture vs Madrid back in 2014. I'll wait

Your argument is not made. More like premature but in the event of a loss then Carlo cannot be said to have done worse than Pep. Afterall most Bayern fans have not said going out to Madrid here means Carlo has done better. No point also talking about Lewandowski who wasn't a Bayern player. I can as well say we needed Cristiano Ronaldo or Messi

PSG under Zlatan romped to the Ligue 1 title. Chelsea would tell you about the untold hardship they have endured in the hands of PSG. Beating PSG no be moin moin. The Fraudiola that cannot beat Monaco shey na PSG him wan beat?

Perma crock Gündogan and some random boy from Brazil with no CL experience na him you dey use compare Lewandodo. Lewl! Wake me up when any of them put 4 goals past Madrid.

If you beat Atletico, Madrid or Barca you might win the CL if you don't beat either 3 you are NOT winning the CL. The objective is to beat them first and take it from there. If Carlo does that he has topped Pep already whether he gets past the semis or not

You are the one still not getting it. That you scored a goal in a game you lost is insignificant. You lost. If you score another goal and lose in the 2nd leg, you lost and will be out so except losing both legs or the tie will amount to a win, you have no case for Ancelotti. He has only beaten teams Pep beat and has lost the same game Pep lost. Only that he is doing it earlier because he finished 2nd in a group (and Pep never did so).

It is a good thing you have said there is no point talking about Lewa - that is exactly what I have been saying. Once a player is not available, he is not available or else Pep can make the same argument. Remember I am here to show you that no matter the argument you want to make for Carlo, Pep can make it.

PSG under Zlatan did not have this Monaco just like CFC under Hiddink did not have Kante. Therefore, I must make my argument with what I have infront of me and not patching instance from eras and even decades to make an excuse for Carlo. The PSG of this season is below Monaco in the league.

The instrumentality of Gundogan and Jesus before their injury is all I can account for. If Muller was injured before last game like Lewa you would have argued that Muller was missed yet how instrumental had he been before the injury - that is what I would have asked. Therefore, Gundogan and Jesus are as important a loss to city as Lewa is to Bayern. Period.

Just say, if Carlo smiles at me he has done better than Pep. It is better than arguing that a manager who finished in a quarters (for example) has done more than another who got to 3 semis but in the same breath say Pep has not improved on City because he did not beat any team in the present top 4 (when 1- that top 4 is subject to change and if AFC and United make it, your point will be lost). 2, LFC and Tot beat City home and away last season (but did not do it this season). 3, Arsenal beat and drew with City yet Pep has reversed it and garnered more points than Pellegrini managed at this same point last season.

A40:
Isn't that more reason to give Carlo credit? Coming to a new team and a new league. Chelsea had gone almost 4years without a league title. He improved on his predecessor. Can you remotely claim Pep did the same? Yeah like Chelsea would give you time to build a dynasty. I wonder what dynasty Carlo would build with the likes of Drogba, Lampard at 32.

Jupp got to the Finals of the CL with a team that barely made CL that year. Don't compare his scenario to Fraudiola's

I am eager to see what Fraudiola would do next season. His competitors would not kuku stand pat

Stop repeating that LVG team lacked experience line. I have since shown otherwise. Porto won the Europa League the previous year. Vitor Baia, Jorge Costa, Benni McCarthy are not players lacking experience.

What was Monaco's achievement as a collective? You are still not answering my question. Even the players individually

Aguero is why the tie was 6-5. Falcao missed a penalty.

Sorry I am not comparing Fraudiola's failure to that of a team 22 hours removed from an actual bomb attack. Can't do it

Pep had a complete Bayern team and failed. Carlo faced Madrid without Lewa and missed the first leg. And lost. Fair play. We are not out yet

Hahahahaha Jurgen Klinsmann's Bayern with the likes of Lell, Ottl, Podolski. Beat Madrid with a dubious red card. I'm crying fam

Pep literally owes his career to Ovrebo. The EPL is opening his yansh. O ti mo meme

I am not being drawn into a Pep vs Carlo argument because Pep will win easily and "good teams" will be the next excuse. Pep has improved on the City of last season, it is clear as crystal for anyone who wants to see. If Pep failed by losing in away goals to Monaco then Carlo is failing woefully by losing a home game to RM.

Jupp got thrashed by Dortmund 5-2 and won absolutely nothing his first season. I mentioned him to show that his next season (when he had fully placed himself in the team) he won a treble.

I have equally shown you how your LVG team and Porto falls flat again. The talk was about since City had recently been in the UCL Semis they should be beating Monaco and I have shown how City's experience counts about as much as AFCs could count against a Milan team that had won it the previous year. The only argument you want to hold onto is - as long as it is Pep it is his fault but every other manager gets a pass.

Don't worry about Dortmund, next week when they are 7 days removed from a bomb blast we would assess their performance away at Monaco. As per what Monaco had achieved before this season? What about a UCL quarter final place only a year and a half away? That sort of argument is neither here nor there. "I get am before no be property". You judge what is infront of you like you would for Leicester-and not say they are ROLA Champs and should be winning the UCL.

LOL @ complete Bayern and failed. If he used Green, Gaudino and Rhodes it will still be called Bayern Munich. So that excuse for Carlo is weak like 7 days. If it was not good enough for Pep it can never be good for Carlo.

Now you are listing the Caliber of players for Bayern under Klinsmann as if they called them another name but Bayern then you said a deserved Pepe red was dubious but same you claimed your penalty against RM was legit. Lol, in that case, even the red card against AFC was dubious.

Yea he does owe his career to overbo. Carlo doesn't. What is he doing to Bayern? He was supposed to be the savior. He has lost more games at the same point and may achieve far less if care is not taken. I am also watching.

A40:
Uncle. When I asked you to list Monaco you answer?

Van Der Sar, Blind, De Boer were all part of the team that won the UEFA Cup in 1991/92. I don't need to tell you about Rijkaard or Finidi George. Litmanen was 25. That is 6 players out of 11 so try again.

Of course City cannot be an elite team with Fraudiola at the helm. After blowing through almost £100m I wonder when they would be elite. City is not mandated to get to the semis. But at least beat Monaco and don't buttress what the anti Pep crowd has been saying.

My argument stand gidigba like Sequoia tree. Arsenal were 2 years removed from a CL Final with multiple League winners in the squad. Gallas, Lehmann, Toure who in Monaco aside Falcao can boast of experience or winning any kind of titles. Compare like for like edakun

I didn't say Age is why we lost Bros. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm telling you that team is significantly older. And age matters

Silva and Kolarov are 31. 3 years younger than Ribery. Go and ask Iniesta what 2 years can do to you after 30 never mind 3

You still don't get it. Did AC Milan that had gotten to 2 other consecutive finals before 95 not possess more experience? Why did Ajax win? That's what I am saying, Monaco FC with "less experience" can beat City (6-6) and it would be excused especially when one considers how the actual game went.

If City are not yet an elite team it has nothing to do with Pep yet. A manager trying to build an edifice will not be expected to complete his at the same time it will take a manager trying to build a hut. So like Pep said, Judge his team by next season. He is trying to reposition a counter-attacking team to play more imperially and dominant. It cannot happen in a flash.

The Arsenal team of 08 had lost a core of the winners. Lehmann was aged and did not even start games. Sagna, Senderos, Adebayor- are those the winners that you are excusing for beating AC Milan with Kaka, Seedorf etc who were the reigning champs?

Did Ribery and Robben not play when you thrashed Dortmund 4-1? Is that not what convinced your coach they could bring it against RM? Did he not use them against AFC or ATM? I don't understand. I still don't see how it excuses them. Iniesta is being used wrongly by Enrique and we have not posited Iniesta as a reason for the loss. But you want to claim Ancelotti is doing better yet he is not.

A40:
Team with Rijkaard, Finidi, Blind, Litmanen, De Boer, Van Der Sar? Wehdone Sir.

Assertion is one thing claiming Monaco was at the same level of City is fa fa fa foul.

Nesta, Kaka, Seedorf, Gattuso, Ambrosini. Lmao they had a Maldini who played U.S.A 94 FFS

Vs

Lehmann, Hleb, Toure, Fabregas, Eboue, Gallas. CL Finalists and semi-finalists. Those are players wey their experience you dey question? Erin keke l'agbole Baba Suwe

Whether they are better than 98% is even debatable. However what is not debatable is that a Xavi at 31 is not the same as Xavi at 34. Your fellow Barca fans are already wailing about Iniesta who is 32/33 yet you are expecting magic from players even older than Iniesta.

No one is giving excuses. Merely stating facts. I'm sure if the younger players showed ability to get the job done they would play more often.

Even the players you listed who bar Costa is experienced? Can you see you are back to square one

You are listing names please list the ages as well. Let us see how experienced that Ajax squad was in the UCL.

Monaco of this season is an elite team and City is not. Monaco are in how many finals? They top their league, they have scored more than 130 goals. If you don't agree that they are this season, that's also fine. What is absolute tommyrot is the argument that City is mandated to make another Semi even when the last season was a fluke. It is like CFC expecting to win the UCL again in 2013 after winning it in 2012.

The AFC vs Milan squad just falls flat because Milan had way more experience and should have won. Or else what argument are you making about City vs Monaco again?

Okay, so now your argument is that Bayern's players are aged (I agree) and that is the excuse for why they lost. But when I mentioned City's players being aged (Silva, Zabaleta, Kolarov) you objected and mentioned their experience. Is that not right back at you?

A40:
You said it was a 2-man league so why are you so shy to tell us where Chelsea finished prior to Carlo's arrival or the last time Chelsea won the title.

Conte is winning the league at a canter. Which foundation did he meet or set. He even bought fewer players than Pep.

Lol Bernardo Silva is 22 mate, Falcao missed the 2nd leg. That is why I said let us list City players and Monaco's players to compare. Mbappe that was still playing UEFA Youth League as at last season. Lewl

Ronaldo and Messi are once in generation players and were surrounded by experienced players.

Is there a match where striker no dey miss chance? The same striker that still netted two goals in the same tie? Didn't Falcao miss a penalty and didn't play the 2nd leg at all. Are you comparing that to a team that nearly got wiped out by a bomb? Has your love for Pep robbed you of your humanity?

Lahm at 33 has declined, Ribery and Robben at 34 and 33. Declined! 3 years is a big deal for players the wrong side of 30

Carlo in 07 beat Man United with arugbos, He led Madrid past Bayern.

Pep cannot beat Glik, Mbappe and Bakayoko with Agüero and KDB

They finished 3rd in the year they used close to 3 managers. They were always the next best team in England (as long as CR7 was in United). I am not even trying to disparage him but his story is why some coaches like to engrain their team with their philosophy because short term successes don't make for dynasties. Did Jupp win it all his first season?

LOL. Before the season began Pep picked Conte to win the league. He said Conte's tactics are easier to learn and that lack of UCL will give them time to imbibe it. He already said his team would need more time and that by next season they would have grasped all he is trying to teach them. But I digress.

A team does not necessarily need experience to do well. Mourinho's Porto didn't. LVGs Ajax didn't. It was their performance in those years that made bigger teams seek their players. In the same fashion, we are experiencing the birth of a solid Monaco team. As formidable as they are (or have been this year), Pep's city were on the verge of ousting them had Aguero not fluffed 2 easy chances when the tie was 6-5 in City's favor. This is all moral talk and I am not here for that.

Every team will have an excuse; Arsenal lost their best defender, RM lost Pepe etc. So Dortmund can't be excused if City won't be.

In the same vein, even CR7 has declined. Bale is not the same explosive player. Nacho is inexperienced. Who is Asensio? We cannot make excuses for a Bayern that beat younger teams in AFC and Dortmund. They had more than enough to beat RM but they did not. If their declining age is the issue he had younger stars who should have been deployed.

Carlo beat United in 07, got beat by AFC in 08. He beat Bayern with Madrid? Lol Pep did same with Barca even beating Bayern 4-0 himself. He also beat RM being managed by Mou 2-0 at Santiago. If this was a CV competition Pep will win. But we are shifting from the main issue - do you now agree that these things could go either way regardless of the manager or how well a team plays?

A40:
The point is we scored. You have been towing the line of absolutes so why stop now? We did within 45 minutes under Carlo what we didn't do in 180 mins under Pep. Shebi is when a team scores that you would talk about advancing

I have no excuse. My own point is Pro Pep crowd cannot come here to tell us Fraudiola did better because he got to the semifinal by the luck of the draw beating farmers like Porto, Benfica and Man United

Should Carlo beat Madrid at least that pride that we can still beat elite European teams would return to the average Bayern fan. Its a given now that you can't win the CL without beating any of the 3 beasts from Spain. No team has done that since 2007

Beating Madrid is a 1-up for me already. Fraudiola fans are at liberty to argue otherwise. I wouldn't expect any different

Going by absolutes you LOST. That is all that matters. There is no we scored in 45mins or else AFC would argue that they almost knocked Jupp's team out by drawing 3-3 yet all they did was go out in the 2nd round same way they did with 10-2 against Carlo. There is no moral victory.

Pep did better. Nobody will say that RM got to last year's finals by beating Roma, Wolfsburg and City even if those teams are minnows.

Even if Carlo beats RM but still loses the tie, it means nothing. Pep beat Barca and ATM in one of the legs but it still does not matter.

If you beat Madrid it will be 1-up for you? You are totally allowed that. Along with the fact that if Carlo crashes out in a quarters- it is good for your club. At least, it proves the chagrin towards Pep has been purely sentimental which has been my point all along.

A40:
What tactics made Javi Martinez commit two dumb and unnecessary fouls in the space of five minutes. On each occasion the player he fouled was 10km away from goal at the least. In the absence of Hummels is it coach that has to tell Javi not to pick those cards?

I will ask you how many chances did Madrid have at even strength?

That penalty was more legit than any of the penalties you were given against PSG.

I agree the 1-2 scoreline playing with 10men flattered us. Also the 0-4 loss to Madrid severely flattered us as well as the 0-3 loss under Pep with 11 MEN

Lmao. Gabriel Jesus and Gündogan vs Lewandowski who has scored almost 60% of Bayern's goal this year? Kompany was absent for most parts of City's run to the semis last year. Pellegrini got there without him, Jesus or Gündogan and beat a PSG with Zlatan on the way. Try another story!

At worst Carlo has matched Pep. Because you have to show where Pep knocked out a Madrid or Barca to have an argument

Did Javi Martinez not play Dortmund over the weekend? Why did he not get 2 dumb fouls then? If the tactics worked against Dortmund and you won, then it failed against RM that is why you lost the middle is excluded.

At even strength Madrid had hit your bar and scored a goal at least so what tactics was working? If the penalty was more deserving than what Barca got against PSG that is debatable but let me for the sake of this discourse accept it, what does it have to do with Carlo losing and you making excuses for him?

If the scoreline flattered you same way 4-0 flattered you against Pep then my argument is made - Carlo is not doing any better. Lewa has scored 60% of Bayern's goals this year? Fine. Was he there when Pep lost to Madrid? Why did you not argue then too that he needed a better striker than Mandzukic? See I told you. Any argument you make for Carlo will work for Pep.

Pellegrini beat PSG with Zlatan? Did that PSG beat Barca 4-0? Did that PSG beat Monaco 4-1? Gundogan and Jesus are as important as they were to City before they got injured just like Lewa. After all, would Pep have beaten Barca without Gundogan? No.

Lol, I don't have to show it to prove anything. All Carlo needs to do is get to the semis to equal Pep. After all, Jupp beat RM and then lost to CFC. Going by what you are saying, Carlo would be excused for beating RM and losing to Monaco even if his journey ends in the semis.

A40:
Are you Eddie Murphy in disguise? We are talking Sergio Agüero, KDB, David Silva, Fernandinho, Caballero, Kolarov, Navas e.t.c and you are mentioning Celtic.

Did you foresee Monaco getting to the quarter finals in Europe? When the draws were made who expected them to knock City out? Even before this bomb parole who would boldly put their mortgage on Monaco going through

Ramos - 28 Ronaldo - 29 Benzema - 26 Marcelo - 26

Lahm - 30 Robben - 30 Mandzukic - 28 Müller - 25 Kroos - 24 Schweini - 29 Ribery - 31

Now compare

Ramos - 31 Ronaldo - 32 Benzema - 29 Marcelo - 28 Kroos - 27 Bale - 28

Lahm - 33 Robben - 33 Müller - 27 Ribery - 34 Alonso - 35 Thiago - 26

Isu no be cocoyam

Who would have boldly asserted that Pep's Bayern will lose 4-0? Who would have done same to Carlo's Bayern? What experience did LVGs Ajax have in 95 when they won it? What experience compared to Milan did AFC have in 08 when they KOed Carlo's title winning team at San Siro? Who could have predicted it?

A good team is a good team even without experience.

I already told you that Lahm and co at their respective ages are better than 98% of what other teams have. So if they are older than RM now they were still older by the same margin 3 years ago.

Besides, why won't Carlo use his younger players like Costa, Coman, Renato and Kimmich so that age will not be an excuse? He is a better manager, he ought to know this.

As you can see, you are only trying to absolve Carlo for personal and perhaps sentimental reasons- nothing more. Any argument that worked against Pep would fit Carlo perfectly.

A40:
That Madrid had 9 CLs. Had not made a Final in 12 years. Bayern did not score or look like scoring even with 11 men

Nope. We are not out of the CL. Yet. We could bounce back and you are left with egg on your face. Pep failed 3 years in a row

But Bayern looked like scoring because Navas did not make a save but Casillas did?

I did not say you are out. I said what will be your excuse for him if he crashes out? I am only here first to remind you that he has lost a home game to Madrid and has not done anything fraudiola did not do yet?

Besides, even if he makes it to the semis, He will still need to get to the finals to now have 1-up on Pep.

A40:
Lmao. E say na 2 team EPL. When was the last year Chelsea won the league prior to Carlo's arrival? What was Chelsea's position the season before Carlo's arrival.

Getting sacked at Chelsea? Lewl! Pep that didn't go there you think he is dumb? If they could sack JM, Carlo and Di Matteo who won the CL just how long do you think Pep would survive?

Losing to small boys Mbappe, Mendy and Bakayoko, with a squad that got to the semis last year? Smh. Monaco scoring 3 goals against Dortmund is no mean feat considering the team just survived a bomb attack less than 24 hours ago. Shame on UEFA for making them go on with that game.

Far better squad? Alonso - 35, Lahm - 33/34, Ribery - 34, Robben - 33

Paro lo

Small small. Did Tottenham, LFC, City and AFC stand a chance in 2010 when Carlo was in CFC. Haba na.

Pep felt the squad needed more work to get them to playing his way. In City he already had a foundation with the former Barca executives working there.

You are not mentioning Bernardo Silva, Falcao, Joa Moutinho etc. don't they have UCL experience? On the other hand, what if they did not have any? Did CR7 not lack experience at some point? What about Messi? Will a savvy coach brush off teams possessing such players because of their experience? So why is a more experienced Dortmund team getting drubbed by Monaco?

Ok Monaco lost because of bomb blast but City did not lose because Aguero missed some key chances? You see what I mean? The standard is different with Pep.

Yes far better squad. How many RBs are better than Lahm or Daniel Alves even at their age? How many wingers are better than Ribery and Robben at 30+? Is your squad not better than AFCs? So why would you not have qualified?

You are yet to tell me the squad Carlo had that was less than his opposition when he was getting to the semis or quarters.

A40:
You hadn't won the league at the time plus the point being made is if Madrid are capable of beating Barca with a man down it is reasonable that Bayern would struggle as well. Plus Benitez was coach at the time. You are yet to beat Zidane in your own building.

My own argument is Pep getting to the semifinals has been due to meeting inferior teams with a vastly superior team.

If Madrid are capable of beating Barca even when they were undermanned then why did you ask for Pep's head when he lost to the same 10-UCL Madrid through silly goals?

It is true that Pep getting to the semi finals has been due to meeting inferior teams with a superior team. What about Carlo Ancelloti? Can the same argument not be made?

A40:
When did the dominance begin? Before or after the red card? Pep was destroyed at Bayern. He is at City and getting destroyed both at home and in Europe in a league Carlo won the double at his first attempt

Yes praise be to Carlo. He won a double his first year in a then 2-team EPL (United and CFC) with CFC and got sacked the following year. He also did not get passed the 2nd round losing home and away to Inter. Pep crashed out to Monaco that beat Totteham twice, top the league, scored on average 3 goals a game, and put 3 away goals past Dortmund, 6-6 on aggregate after having dominated both ties in chances. He is a fraud I agree. But Carlo is better with a far better squad, what will be his own excuse if he does not make it?

A40:
I have asked your friend byke. I would ask you. Can you list Monaco's starting XI without the aid of google? Do we roll out the CL appearances of City players and compare them to Monaco's? Monaco are clearly punching above their weight. Neither you or any pundit foresaw them competing at such a high level whether Jardim spent 2 years or 20 years.

Pep was a significant part of the problem taking a treble winning team to 3 years of European futility. If you agree that Ancelotti failed for losing out to an 11 time defending Champ that Pep never actually beat with a younger and complete squad. Then Pep is a Mega Super Duper failure for taking City from losing to Madrid in the semis to losing to small boys like Mbappe, Bakayoko, Mendy in the 2nd round. Deal?

So because Celtics have a ton of UCL experience I should have expected them to be 2nd behind Barca during the group stage? I don't understand. Are Monaco also punching above their weight by being first in France and 3-2 up against Dortmund?

Yes I agree, Pep was a significant part of costing Bayern a UCL title in 14, 15 and 16. Carlo has arrived and he is better. What will be his excuse if he gets ousted during the quarters? Pep's squad was younger but Carlo's RM possessing- a younger Marcelo/Coentrao, CR7, Benz, Di Maria, Sergio Ramos was not younger?

A40:
He set us up for failure both in the first and 2nd leg. At no point were we ever in control of that tie. Home or away. FACTS

You can roll up possession stats that were meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Ramos headers were just a culmination of his tactics that turned every Madrid chance to a potential goal

Even sef when you can only create two clear chances in 180mins of soccer then sorry there is a problem.

To the Barca game another tactical blunder in the first 20mins and but for Neuer we would have been 3 goals down. Individual brilliance can unlock teams however up till the Javi red. Bayern played better than I had ever seen them play Madrid and Barca under Pep despite missing Lewandowski and Hummels.

Anyway we are seeing the magic your Pep is doing at City losing to Balon D'or candidates Falcao, Bakayoko and Germain and still maintaining 4th even after spending almost £100m last summer

If Ramos' headers were a culmination of tactics gone wrong then Javi Martinez' red card falls in the same category. You can't have it one way and another. In the same way Bayern had only 2 clear scoring chances - and both were Vidal headers, but Madrid had how many? More than 8. So Carlo's tactics were botched as well.

Bayern playing better than you had ever seen them play against RM and Barca under Pep? Yea, with Rose coloured glasses. Goal up, frivolous penalty up, better manager up, ahome - and you still lost in a game everyone says 1-2 loss severely flatters Bayern.

As per Pep in City, it is funny you keep mentioning Lewa and Hummels being absent but when it comes to Pep the standard immediately changes. Gundogan, Gabriel Jesus did they not both miss significant portions of the season? What about their best defender, Company?

Why is the standard being used to judge Pep different? That's my question. Ancelotti is the better manager - according to you. Yet he is doing worse and all you are doing in return is straining out moral reasons and excuses for why he is underperforming.

I am actually sympathetic to his plight because I hate RM, but I was not impressed with what I saw yesterday. I am only perplexed as to why you are willing to give him a pass.

A40:
You gotta be kidding me man. You lost at home with a man advantage vs this same Real. Can't believe you even brought it up

I had beat them 4-0 in their own home. The 2-1 loss meant nothing as I also won the league.

I thought the argument was that a win is a win and a loss is a loss. Why is the standard changing with Carlo?

raumdeuter:
You dont remember the last ditch tackles but you remember casilass making a save on gotze in the 6th minute

You keep discrediting yourself more and more

In this argument I have given you more facts and you have relied on your memory which has failed you once

At 11 vs 11 it was 1-1 at home to Madrid, Who knows what would have happened if we played 11 vs 11.

Pep played 11 vs 11 and lost 4-0 at home

Carlo played 10 vs 11 and lost 1-2 at home

Spot the difference

The only fact you have given me is that Gotze's chance was 6mins to go and not 6mins into the game - and I graciously accepted it.

Now accept these very facts - who knows what will happen? Is hypothetical talk. RM were clearly on the up which necessitated the 2 fouls from Javi Martinez.

Bayern dominated first half? It is only in terms of possession and maybe corner kicks (my memory could be failing me on the Corner kick part).

The penalty? Totally undeserved. And that was the end of the first half.

Second half? You lost whether 1 man down or complete. The better manager should not have lost to Zidane or RM at home. That was what Pep was being slain for. Whether 1-2 or 4-0 that is simply you searching for a moral victory were none exists. There is no difference especially when RM missed like a gazillion chances and dominated the game.

SIRcumalot:
no hummels and lewa sef no play.
ancelotti no be magician.

I don't deny this as I am a fan of Carlo myself. But if Pep won't be excused, why should Carlo?

raumdeuter:
And Neuer didnt make multiple saves in the 4-0 trashing? If not for Neuer rushing out to make some last ditch tackle how much more will Madrid have scored in 2014

I really don't remember last ditch tackles that day. I remember the 16th and 20th min goals that came against the run of play. You and I know at 3-0 aggregate and 2 away goals the tie was over.

But that is an aside from the fact that the better and conservative Carlo should not have lost a home game to RM. Even with a man down, it was just too easy for Madrid to create chances. If anything, it made Bayern's 5-1 away win at Arsenal a fluke because Carlo was getting outplayed before the red card to Kos.

raumdeuter:
With Pep RM actually scored 5

But Neuer could have saved a couple of the chances like he did yesterday or na?

Besides, we have made it seem like the red card destroyed the game when in reality Madrid scored 90 secs into the 2nd half when both teams were complete and RM were on the up before the red card.

I am not even blaming Ancelotti. I am only here to show that these things could happen to great tactics just by one silly mistake. Mike Tyson used to say it; "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face".

A40:
Madrid in 2014 had not conquered Europe in 12 years. Were blown away by Barca in the league so I'm not understanding the abracadabra you were expecting. No excuses from me. It was an avoidable loss but all hope is not lost

Your Pep Fraudiola took us from defending Champions to disgrace. Which we haven't fully recovered from.

He will end up in China in a few years. O ti sure ju

Was it his fault that Sergio Ramos out jumped your defenders twice in 4 mins? Was it his fault that the wall jumped over CR7s free kick and left Neuer helpless? Was it his fault that Muller had a valid cry for a penalty first leg and the refs disagreed? Was it his fault that Messi scored 2 brilliant goals by taking players on and Bayern wer left with no option but to push to reduce the deficit and it created a counter attack through which Neymar scored?

A40:
That's the thing, guys like Madrid and Bayern can afford to finish where they like. Teams actively hope to avoid them either way. City and Arsenal don't enjoy that luxury.

How did City leak 6 goals? As good as Monaco might be in the league City are a lot more experienced, both in terms of players and coaches. The star striker you claimed missed 'dozens' of chances scored 2 out of the 6. You also forgot Monaco even missed a penalty

Whether Pep picked up 100pts more in the league is irrelevant. He is still 4th.

No, City are not a lot more experienced both in history or pedigree. Monaco also beat a higher placed Tottenham this season home and away which validates their league standing in France. To add to that, their manager is in his 3rd season with them so his pattern of playing has been fully engrained in them compared to Pep. Even at that, City were unlucky to be ousted.

Now one would have thought that since Pep was Bayern's problem Ancelotti would have done far better than Pep but that is not the case. So whether Bayern lost 1-2 or 4-0 the fact remains that they still lost. Also, if RM knocks you guys out it does not matter whether you played RM or Woking. The fact will remain that you got KOed in a quarters, something Pep never did with Bayern.

A40:
Wenger also lost to a geriatric Milan side and neophytes at Monaco plus his track record of European futility is well known. Some of those big team matchups were avoidable. He came 2nd once in a group with Schalke 04

The first manageable opponent City got in the K.O stage City were able to beat. They got another formidable PSG side who had been beaten Chelsea back to back and knocked them out. In came Fraudiola, they got another manageable opponent but Pep shat the bed.

Monaco vs Madrid. The difference is very clear

You mean the way Bayern finished below ATM and RM finished below Dortmund?

Monaco are first in their league, scored 2nd most goals in Europe behind Barca and Pep lost 6-6 on aggregate (in a tie his star striker missed like a dozen chances) and he is not excused (even when his City side at week 27 was 10 points better than Pellegrini's just the season before) but Bayern should be excused for losing ahome to RM because it is not Pep that lost it?

raumdeuter:
Bayern lost to the defending champs and best team in CL history Real Madrid

I know and it happens. Whether Ancelloti or Pep. That's my point.

raumdeuter:
Please which game are you talking about here? If its the Madrid 1 Bayern 0 game in 2014. I think you are wrong because Gotze came in as a 72nd min substitute. So how can a 72nd min score in the 6th min unless it was on the bench

First leg.

Yea, sorry that chance must have been 2nd half. I remembered it wrongly.

A40:
The team we lost the first leg today also beat Pep. So the Quarter and semi argument flies out the window. Pep was merely fortunate to meet them at a later stage. Kpokwem

Leicester with Wilfred Ndidi, Danny Drinkwater, Okazaki and Marc Albrighton. Bros compare like for like nau.

The Dortmund still shook from Tuesday's bomb attack? Are you even hearing yourself? That they went on with that game so quickly was courageous to begin with

Then why is Wenger mocked for constantly getting KOed to Bayern and Barca when they are both teams who go on to beat everybody else? You see, it does not work that way. You beat what is infront of you.

So which City team was going to get to the UCL semi finals regularly? A team that had been doing it before? In that case, what will be the excuse for Bayern this year if y'all don't make it? If Pep must be judged by losing to Monaco, then Bayern has no excuse agree?

A40:
Pain? No shame in losing to an 11 time defending champion. You have lost 4-0 and 3-0 in this year's CL already to non defending champs. That is 7-0 combined! Which was the beating we handed you a few moons ago.

Ronaldo can set record anywhere wey he like. He don achieve wetin your La Midget no kuku fit do

Pep only advanced because he faced sankwa teams like Porto, Man United and Benfica. No upgrades

Your yeye Fraudiola left Bayern went to Man City who made the semis last year and couldn't get past goddamn AS Monaco. Upgrade indeed

And Juventus. He beat Juventus managed by Allegri. Infact his team fumbled a 2-0 first leg lead to draw 2-2 and then win 4-2 2nd leg.

Don't worry, the next Leicester coach would be called a failure for not getting to a champions league quarter final. Meanwhile, Monaco just beat Dortmund that Madrid could not beat this season.

A40:
The goal Madrid conceded also came from a setpiece. We thoroughly dominated them in the first half. This is not even comparable to the last time at Madrid where we did not have a shot on target vs Madrid till after 80 minutes.

If you want to talk about ageing squad don't even go there. Our starting wingers are a combined age of 67! We have a 33 year old full back and a 35 year old midfielder. Pep has already spent almost £100m so I want to see what he ends up achieving. We scored a goal and won a penalty. Neither achieved under Pep plus we are not entirely out yet

Real Madrid had just 20% of possession in the first half and 37% in the second. Overall 28% RM 72% BM
Real Madrid had five shots on target to Bayern's four.
Bayern won 15 corners to Real's three.
Bayern made 705 passes to to 276 from Real Madrid.
Source: Opta stats

As early as the 6th min Gotze should've scored but Casillas saved it. So I don't know what match Bayern did not get a shot on target till the 80th min.

If you are referring to the second leg in Munich, Bayern started really well and totally dominated the game but 16th min, Ramos headed in a corner against the run of play (which would have been like Benzema scoring from that header). 20th min again, Di Maria crosses from a freekick and Ramos heads in the 2nd. Now the tie is undeservedly 3-0 against Bayern and the players need to throw caution to the wind. Madrid get the 3rd from a counter attack.

Speaking about penalties, if the ref gives one even when it is not, what does it have to do with the manager? I thought the narrative was that Bayern never lost to Madrid in Munich until Pep. I am now showing that Madrid also beat Bayern in Munich without Pep and it is not exactly the manager's fault because things like this can happen.

I am no city fan but even Bayern are noticeably declining in some areas and I have read comments by you alluding to it. For instance, if you get KOed now you'd be crashing out in the quarters for the first time in 5 seasons. Also, Pep had more points at this stage of his first and last season in which he had 90 and 88pts in the end. The best Bayern will do now is 86. So yes, City were on a decline and the impact is more telling on them than it is on Bayern because there is more competition in the EPL.