₦airaland Forum

-i then ask Excel or someone to please find the pair for Dog using the Vlookup function
-The person or Excel goes to through the dataset from the top.
-It says, is dog equal to man, since the answer is NO, it skips to the next row
-it keeps on searching and skipping untill it finds Dog is equal to Dog.
-when it finds this, it then looks for the pair of a Dog, and provides the answer =Bi.tch

Vlookup is an excel function that means lookup things vertically.
The logic behind Vlookup is this:

-a dataset (that is any combination of data) is first presented
-The 'data set' is at least paired. Example of what i mean is something like this: Man is paired to woman, Lion to Lioness, Cock to Hen e.t.c

manny4life's teaser can also be approached using vlookups
I'll run us through it

And my point is......

there is so much that is yet to be answered
we cannot afford to bury our heads in the sand, avoid reasoning and just hope we somehow manage to avoid God's wrath and find ourselves in Paradise

-Noah had no bible, but God resued him from the flood
-Abraham apparantly had no Bible, and had limited stories of Yahweh, but yet God blessed him mightily
-Moses had no bible either. He instead wrote some parts of the bible.
-David whom was so loved by God had a limited version of the bible
-The disciples, and early jewish xtians had only the old testament
-Gentle xtians that Paul converted had no bible at all


Yet God moved mightily in their midst

..today we have the bible as we know it
and some just they quote left, right and center to support their dispositions whether, good or evil or none-existent

and the gullible..... yep
once you quote bible for them, they are comfounded

The scripture talks about Jesus at age 12 asking and answering questions in the temple (Luke 2: 41-52)
Although I am much older, I'll follow his examples and fire questions

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...deleted

So, my question is simple:

How do angels fight amongst theselves?
-Do they attempt to kill themselves?
-Do they feel pain??
-How is one subdued?
-What is their rule of engagement?

Can someone explain the science in their battle?

Thanks and regards
..Concerned Xtian

In a physical battle between 2 humans, the science or scope of their fight is quite understandable
each seeks to weaken the other or kill the other

So they hit themselves hard to acheive this
-their brains send out pain signals to alert them that their organs are being damaged
-their bodies pump andrenalin to respond to pain, minimize painand encourage flight or fight

-physical strenghts are at play to subdue the oponent, until one gives up, or one is overcome sometimes at the pain of death

Ok, you've read scriptures about angels doing battle amongst themselves right?
If you haven't, here is one for an appetizer:

Revelations 12: 7-9
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

manny4life: Na wa o, a week tomorrow will make it a MONTH and no one has attempted to answer the question

hope u know say book no easy

I shall show you a new level of grace

Sunnycliff: He had no money and has been praying that God should provide for him. As he went out he saw some men working in a building site. So he joined them for a full day pay. at the end of the day his wage was paid but he was paid with a counterfeit money but he went ahead making purchases with it. However, he knew the money was a fake.

Not to worry, the money will circulate and finally get back to the person that initiated the first fraudulent payment. Nothing is impossible to God

He is a prisoner awaiting trials for a crime he never committed but he had no body to defend him. He had already spent two years behind bars and had been praying to God for deliverance. Then one fateful day unidentified gun men attacked the prison breaking it and inmates had a field day of escape. He too joined and never came back again.

Halelujah... the lord has made a way of escape, when there seemed to be no way. He has made a way of escape in the desert

He was seeking for a job in a multinational and it was clearly stated in the company policy that application form is Free. His uncle is the deputy human resources manager. His uncle demanded he pay 5000 to him as a sign of his commitment to job search and to facilitate his application. He bluntly refused.

Wisdom is profitable to direct. The young man is wise. If his uncle insists that the guy wont get employed if he does not pay, the young boy will simply bring his uncle before the council of family and village elders ....and woe is his uncle if the community priests are offended

Your room mate in school was applying for a job and unknown to him you are the HRM of the firm. After the recruitment processes you discovered he lacked some few added qualifications needed for the job. However the job demands a high level of integrity and you can vouch for him and you went ahead giving him the job offer.

If God says you are qualified, who am I to say that you are not -paper qualifications or not

Officially your institution makes transcript available 3 weeks from the day of payment. You ordered for your own after three weeks it was not available. On inquiry you were told that you need to grease the palms of those in charge else in the next One month you may never get it. Meanwhile in your choice destination its deadline is three days to go. You offered them 3000 and the transcript was ready within four days.

I shall give unto ceaser what is ceaser's and unto God what is God's
Ceaser wants his hands greased,......doing this will enable you get your transcript on time. You can then go on to to your destination of choice, graduate and make big money to pay bigger tithes and offerings


.....shekina

ATMC: is ur moniker also Lucifer? I dey suspect yhu oooo

LOL
no..its not
What I'm doing is like performing a delicate surgical procedure where it's difficult to tell the difference between cancer and organs
-no hard and fast rules

On the one hand
Lucifer is now accepted (even by me) as refering to Satan, however, in the begining it was not so
I even hear that a pope was once named lucifer
So if suddenly we see a man called Pastor Lucifer performing miracles, what would be our reaction?
(we go say d person na devil abi?)

.....Interestingly the silly chap that posted SCOAN video to rebuke me should know or think better because he's boss has been accused of being Belzebub for not conforming to the church's perception of pastors. A case of spoon calling knife "silver ware" i guess

On the other hand
The Isiah 14: 12 verse might not neccesarily be refering to Satan
it could be anything from Babylon's king, tower of babel event, to Adam and eve's fall from grace
so why the strong desire to ensure that it refers to Satan
na so we like devil matter?

^^^
i suspect you're not homo 'sapien'
probably homo "confuso"

.........and surprise, surprise yes, it could also be referring to satan (not lucifer)
and comparing the babylonian king to Satan or even Adam and eve (who were cast out of eden and their flesh soon suffered decay)

But why are many so 100% sure that it is Satan?
(it tickles us like those 300 and "clash of the titan" movies abi? -fine fine satan, messing up and then pushed to the earth by a powerful God, ..no be so?)


...the general idea i am pushing accross is this:
Have we tought about what we think about, and why we think that way?
are we just swallowing anything and everything hook, line and sinker?
As a man thinketh so is he the bible says

Why enslaving our most precious assets (our minds) to the unrigorous toughts of others?


......food for tought -adding Dr, Saint, Son, Chief, Pastor, Lucifer, Master, Bishop to the front of ones name does not really change the person's intellectual content (....or does it not?)

(I hope to share some insightful topics on this^^^... join me later on)

Kabieosi: He'll refer you to Luke 10:18

"And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven"

and

Revelation 12:7-9

⁷And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
⁸and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
⁹And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:
he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Nope, i don't think that he'll do that
I suspect that for the first time in his life, he'll question and scrutinize how the relationship between Isiah 14:12 and Satan came about
then depending on the strength and disposition of his character, he'll either continue with the baton of his elders or chart a new course


..and I'll be honest with you, the verse is actually very fanciful (like those Harry Porter movies), and I'd be happy that it refers to Satan
But it is 'logically' clear that (except by revelation) the verse was not referring to satan

It 'logically' sounds more like the babylonia race/location that built a tower unto the heavens and were scatterd abroad
yet I cannot be 100% sure either as those verses/prophesies were written in a 'poetic' way
Such 'poetic' writings are good at playing with words yet making a point

Could it be that the Babylonian king was being reminded that like his forefathers before him who filled their hearts with pride
he'll be cast from his throne and suffer the fate of mere mortals with his flesh eaten by worms without embalment etc

Pastor Olu T: Coming around to where? Pls dont misquote me, my point still remain Lucifer was referred to as the devil inIsaiah which was the only time he was referred to as such in the bible.

umhhh

I actually tought you had some insight that you wanted to share on this topic apart from the usual tradition which was passed down to you, I and most of us from God-knows-where
.............I was clearly mistaken

Pastor Olu T: Smiles, Dont try to sound intelligent everyone understands what lucifer means so I dont see what separation u are doing,

You've suggested that everyone understands that jesus and us can also be called lucifer -morning star
Great to see that you are finally getting around to understanding the thread

Pastor Olu T: my points still remain that in the context that it was used in those verses it is very clear; It is ascribed to Satan in Isaiah.

The next point of the thread then becomes who told you/us that Isiah 14: 12 referred to Satan?
Was this a special revelation? Cos it was not written in that verse

.....Any more intelligent insights on this?

@pastor olu_T
Ok, on a gentler note
the thread does all of this and more:
1) queries why Xtian and jewish tradition assumes that Isiah 14: 12 refers to the devil
2) queries why the name lucifer has been used to tag the devil, when indeed it simply means morning star and can also refer to Jesus
3) Concludes that traditions are sometimes passed off as the truth
4) concludes that we need to review our understanding of the relationship between names and character

The point of this thread pastor olu T is
to seperate the sheep from the ewu goat
and seperate the wheat from the chaff

You mean you couldn't see it?
Chineke!!!!
if you are a pastor, then some folks are in trouble oooo

^^
Oga, I was not referiing to you in particular, but to commentators in general o
Or don't you think commentators suggested these things I spoke of?

Another advantage of this thread is that it questions the often misplaced emphasis on name changes
For example, I have heard some xtians saying that using the term "luck" is wrong
becauce luck is derived from the term lucifer or Lu-ci-o
(i dont like the word either, but simply because it emphasises only time and chance to events)

While agreeing that sometimes name changes are important and useful
I do not however agree that this is required at all times
neither do i believe that name changes are a quick fix solution to ya spiritual problems (if you have any)

This links to an interesting subject of the 4 jewish princes of Babylon
Shedrach, Meshac, Abednego and Belteshazzar (Daniel)
All names laced with reference to the Gods of the babylonian regions

.....You're seeing what I am seeing?

In summary

I think we should start asking ourselves hard questions and challenging the status quo
Are we really listening to God or to forms and images of God?

This is what I think happened:

-early Xtians inherited the tradition that Isiah 14:12 was referring to Satan from a jewish tradition
-Since that passage translated in latin to Lucifer, it was therefore fanciful to simply call Satan Lucifer (interstingly, another alternative translation is "stella matutina". The Latin translation used for Rev 22: 16)
-This tradition has been passed down to us, and we take it for granted that Isiah 14:12 is about a beautiful being originally called Lucifer who later became know as the devil

Isiah 14: 12 is situated amongst other verses where Isiah the prohpet was making proclamations against different nations including Egypt, Syria and Ethiopia

The scripture there is specifically aimed at the king of Babylon

However, it is said that a certain jewish sect or disposition felt that that the verse was speaking about Satan (not Lucifer)
This Jewish tradition was carried into xtianity

If you review the original Latin vulgate translations of the bible, you will see Lucifer mentioned more than once when describing the day star

I'll push this further now

In the book of revelations, Jesus describes himself with that same word

Revelations 22: 16 (NIV)
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."


Interestingly, this time, the KJV version translators do not use the word lucifer. They just simply insert morning star
**remember that we are talking about traditions**


You know what is happening here?
..........I'll tell you

The term lucifer is the latin translation of the jewish word Heyleel
Heelel simply means morning star
The morning star is a reference to the planet Venus when seen early in the morning, or the moon
The latin root word for that Venus dawn sight or moonlight is called lucifer

Now, take a look at the pure english translation of the verse that I shared earlier

Isaiah 14:12 (NIV)
"How you have fallen from heaven, morning star , son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!"

Now take a look at this scripture from whence the term lucifer was first used biblically:

Isaiah 14:12 (King James Version)
"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer , son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

I want to talk about LUCIFER in this thread
Don't be scared, and dont run off

My aim in talking about Lucifer is to show the reader that many traditions are usually passed off as christianity gospel
I am of the view that it is important that we question what we assume to be facts as much as possible

If i told you that Jesus is/was called lucifer, what would your reaction be?

***I have not said that Jesus is satan ooooo abeg***

Feraz: How about throwing banana peel on the road while travelling knowing how slippery it is and that is is likely to cause accident for oncoming vehicles?
Nice write-up

Yep, this fits in perfectly
someone tries to clean up his car space from banana peels garbage, smell and tripping probability
throws it out carelessly for someone else to suffer all the problems he does not want to suffer