₦airaland Forum

Abuamam:
Hey, quit the generalisations. I take my moral code from a Holy Book, and I do not believe atheists are evil; or anyone else for that matter. Individuals are just different mixes of moral and immoral.
As for your moral codes, they are derived from the values and norms already present in the society where you were born, and believe me, those were derived from one Holy Book or the other. All morals are.

Wrong!!!

Morality evolved as a result of human social interactions. Being part of a herd means you need to reign in your individual selfishness in favour of the needs of the group. Our ancestors needed to work together to survive the harsh environment they lived in for millions of years. Groups of humans that didn't cooperate got outcompeted by other groups that did. And individuals that failed to cooperate within a group got socially isolated, reducing their chances of survival and reproductive success. Morality is simply what we call those instincts that allow us to live and work together, and those instincts came from natural selection. Humanity's superior ability to cooperate is probably our greatest evolutionary advantage over other animals.

Religion is just behaving like Apple Computer and claiming to have invented things that have been in existence long before they were. You don't need any stüpid holy book to tell you not to kill people or steal things. Our African ancestors knew this before the oyimbos brought their imported nonsense here. Even monkeys and chimpanzees have a sense of fairness and social justice and none of them have read the bible or koran.

If anything, religion only serves to corrupt people's morals and make them do evil things while thinking they are good. Like those who kill over cartoons, bomb primary schools and kidnap schoolgirls for god. Or the christian soldiers over the ages who've killed heretics, burnt witches massacred Jews and bombed abortion clinics.

Morality did not come from any religion, and its not enhanced by any religion. It just helps people feel they are moral even when they are acting like complete ässholes.

An2elect2:
Oh yeah? i almost liked this post until i saw the "...eradicate Christianity" part.

News flash: Catholics ain't Christians, the are catholics. That's what they are.

Christianity is not and has never been a violent religion. We cause trouble among men when we preach the truth cos men love the lie. We don't convert people forcefully. God forbid! If we do that then our gospel is void of power.

I can't say the same for the Muslims who worship not the true God.

The truth is that no one can make him/her self a Christian. Only God can do that.

So someone saying he is a christian doesn't make him one

First of all, the catholic church us the main branch of the original church. There are more christian than any other sect and that is a fact.

Secondly, what do you mean christianity is not violent? Even if we pretend that catholics arent christians, how do you explain Martin Luther, the founder of the protestant movement writing a 65,000 word book promoting murdering, enslaving and murdering Jews? Hiw do you explain John Calvin being the one who handed the philosopher Giordano Bruno over to be murdered by the chyrch? How do you explain the North American genocide, perpertrated almost entirely by protestants? How do you explain the Australian genocide? How do explain protestant christians in Germany who happily participatrd in the industrialized slaughter of Jews and other minorities during WWII? How do you explain the Belgian Congo? You think christianity managed to almost wipe out traditional African religions with flowers and hugs?

The fact is that christianity is by far the most violent and bloodthirsty religion in all of recorded history. We just happen to be living in one of their rare slow periods. 60 years of not killing as many people is not enough to cancel out 1600 years of institutionalized mass murder and tyranny. Islam is definitely neither tolerant nor a religion of peace, but for hundreds of years Jews were running to islamic countries to escape christian persecution!

You have an incentive to decieve yourself since you've decided to believe in that nonsense, but non christians have no reason to hide the truth. We will never forget what your people were doing to us when you had the power, and we will never allow you to get that power again.

johnw74:
Well anyway I'm glad you know that Christians are not evil brains.

.

My sig says '"Skepticism is my nature. Freethought is my methodology. Agnosticism is my conclusion. Atheism is my opinion. Humanism is my motivation." - Jerry DeWitt'

Evil Brain is my user name.

johnw74:
Then you will be able to quote these double standards I have been using in this thread,
wont you
.

Second sentence in my last post. You even quoted it: "You christians are always more than happy to tell
everyone else that their beliefs are nonsense, but you want to deny others the right to do the same to you."

Somebody makes a factual statement about the bible being old, barbaric and fictitious and you stsrt whining about "bad language" despite there being nothing of the sort. You want your unfounded beliefs to protected from skeptical enquiry while you go around criticizing other's (Ive seen your posting history, so dont bother denying it).

Moderate Islam

Pope Francis is using the wifebeater's defence (she provoked me!) to support mass murdering islamist fanatics. Personally, I'm not surprised since he and the islamists are selling different flavours of the same poisonous drink. They know what they are preaching is bullshit which is why they dont want it criticized. When the Catholic church still had political power, they were murdering people everyday just like the muslims are now. They havent changed at all, theyre just better at hiding it nowadays. But once in a while, the mask slips and you can see the rotten face beneath.

Dont worry, humanity will eventually eradicate christianity along with islam and all the other violent religions. Its just a matter of time.

The reason most religious people behave like bigots is because theyve been brainwashed into thinking those who dont share their faith are morally deficient and not to be trusted. Its religions way of shielding its members from hearing contrasting ideas that can undermine the brainwashing. Make the sheep afraid of talking to outsiders so they never learn that there is life outside the farm.

The best way to combat this is to be a kind and decent person whiile living openly as an atheist. Let them see for themselves that it is perfectly possible to be good without god. If people people like and admire you, it will be hard for them to justify mistreating you to themselves. Ive even had religious people jumping to my defense when their coreligionists start prejudging me.

And the greedy scumbag pastors, mass-murdering muslims and redemption camp going politicians will help you drive home the point every single day. Homosexuals in America were able to overcome all the lies and bigotry against them in a single generation just by coming out of the closet and showing everyone around them that they were a huge community of mostly decent people. If they could do it, I dont see why we cant.

Whenever your neighbours and co-workers go to church or mosque, and the head wizard starts ranting about how evil all the godless people are, let them think of you and wonder.

johnw74:
Are you really a Christian? Yet you call me a hypocrite and a whiner for replying to bad language used toward God and the Bible,

Im calling you a hypocrite because the double standard you are knowingly or unknowingly espousing. You christians are always more than happy to tell everyone else that their beliefs are nonsense, but you want to deny others the right to do the same to you.

And who are you to decide what language is "bad"? I see nothing wrong with what johnnydon22 posted which is simply a statement of fact. That those facts are inconveneint to you is nobodys problem but yours. You will not be allowed to use the exuse of "I'm offended" to limit another person's right to express his views. Je suis Charlie.

Also I'm not a christian. Look at my sig.

Derren Brown is by far the most powerful man of god I've ever seen. His miracles are greater than those of Pastor Chris, Benny Hinn, Reinhard Bonnkhe or even TB Joshua. And he's a gay atheist (gaytheist?)!!!

Derren Brown proves beyond any doubt that you dont have to believe in god to be a good stage magician. We can all aspire to be greater than Adeboye, its not just for christians alone.

Edit: Before magic fans crucify me let me just state that by "good", I mean popular and financially successful. I dont mean technically good. Lets face it, all those pastors I mentioned are quite rubbish. Even a monkey can figure out how theyre performing their tricks.

johnw74:
So you get your kicks by disrupting Christian threads
Why don't you get a life

You want to be able to post lies unopposed without anyone pointing them out to you which is never going to happen outside the islam section. I dont know how you can expect people not to jump in especially when then the OP is specifically using science to decieve people.

If someone opened a thread claiming that the new testament proves thst Guru Maraji is the one true prophet, woukd you expect christians to stay out because it was a Guru Maraji thread? Stop beong a hypocrite and stop your whining.

The prophet Muhammad also took infidel women against their will and sold them into sex slavery, shared many among his companions and kept some for himself. He once massacred an entire town after they surrendered to him peacefully. He regularly ordered the assassination of those who criticized him. His first companions regularly killed so called Muslims who had fallen into apostasy or had embraced heresy. Are you a better Muslim than the prophet Muhammad? Are you qualified to pass judgement on him? Are you above his companions?

Boko Haram are true Muslims who are obeying the Koran and following the example of the prophet. It is you who is anti-Islam. You have appointed yourself a judge over Allah's prophet and you think your morals are superior to his. When you condemn those who follow the prophet, you condemn the prophet himself.

Islam is about obeying the Koran, obeying the prophet's teachings and following his perfect example. If you are not willing to follow the prophet 100% then stop calling yourself a Muslim. As long as you call Islam your religion, you have no right to condemn Boko Haram.

johnw74:
This is a Christian believers thread, me and some others might not know a lot, but the bible has all we need to know.
There are plenty of non believers threads where you can rubbish God if that's what you want to do.
.

Sorry, but you guys will not be allowed to tell lies unopposed on a public forum, believers thread or not. If you post something here, you'd better be ready to defend it with facts and logic.

You're far less likely to get rubbished if you avoid starting threads based on thoroughly debunked, copy-pasted nonsense.

^^^ Before you guys start claiming victory, here's a RationalWiki article debunking all the nonsense OP posted. I would have copied and pasted it, but fixing the formatting would have taken too long and my beer is getting hot. Maybe somebody more jobless can do it for me.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Science_Confirms_the_Bible

Emusan:
The Bible may or may not be inspired by God – we haven’t proved it yet, one way or the other – but it is nonetheless a historical document. A document that has been dated, depending on which book of the Bible and who you ask, at between 1900 and 3500 years ago. No one, no matter how skeptical, dates any part of the Old Testament at later than 2000 years ago. So then it is an absolute fact that this is an ancient document.

We have vast multitudes of independent writings – not only in the New Testament, but throughout the world – which were written 2000 years ago and speak of the antiquity of many books of the Old Testament even then.
So let us look at some of the things in those books that only a God could have known. Things that no man has ever known, or could conceivably have known, until our century. For this would prove that someone greater than a man had written those books.

1. Job 38:24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
This particular question demands of Job how the light was parted (by day into night) and how that light makes the east wind blow. Now we today, can answer that question. Job could not.

2. Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,.... Maps of the Earth from the times of Mesopotamia, when Job was most likely written, and even much later, portrayed a flat earth, sometimes round in the midst of an infinite ocean.

3. Job 38:16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
We didn’t “walk in search of the depth [of the sea] “the deepest part of the ocean, until 1875 when we discovered the deepest point on Earth, the Challenger Deep in the Marianas Trench (although we weren’t sure it was the deepest point until much later). We didn’t fully survey it until 1951. We didn’t actually “walk” in it until 1960! But how does this prove the existence of God? Simply the fact that in most ancient cultures, the ocean HAD no bottom! The Greek word abyss , used for the deep ocean, literally means “bottomless”! And 3500 years ago, only God could have known with such certainty that the ocean did in fact have a “depth”! In the same verse; Why would there be water pouring INTO the sea from underground – the sea is where water came from! And mankind for all his technological achievements didn’t discover underwater springs until 1949 – A.D.! Almost four millennium after Job was written! And even then, it wasn’t confirmed until 1960, and it wasn’t until 1979 that human beings first saw deep-sea springs with their own eyes!

4. Job 38:18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
Man didn’t measure the circumference (“breadth”) of the Earth with even remote accuracy until Eratosthenes did it in about 240 BC. But God knew exactly how large it was. For He sits “above the circle of it”.

5. Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
According to everyone before 570 BC, the Earth was flat. Even then, and for millennia afterwards, the Earth was held up by something. For the Greeks it was on the shoulders of the god Atlas. For the American-Indians it was supported on the back of a giant turtle. Other cultures believed it was on the back of a hog, water buffalo, snake, or elephant. These ideas had the delightful side-benefit of explaining earthquakes, since it logically follows the theory that if Earth was on an elephant’s back and the elephant itched, the Earth would move.
The idea of the Earth literally hanging on NOTHING – as in, an Earth in free-fall through space – was one that no ancient mind could have grasped. Newton’s famous “apple incident” gave us the first real clue as to how gravity operated to control bodies at great distances. But 3500 years ago?[img] Only God could have known!

6. Job 38:25 Who hath d[/img]ivided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder; As primitive man sought answers about the natural world, lightning became a part of his superstitions, his myths and his early religions.

For more
Http://thesimpleanswers.com/2009/08/08/does-god-exist/

Long ago, I would have typed a long response taking down every single one of the useless claims OP made. Sadly, I'm older now and I have something better to do this evening (going out drinking). I'm going to have to leave this for the younger generation of atheists to tackle.

It only took OP 2 seconds to copy and paste this nonsense and I've already spent more than that.

https://i.imgur.com/bl9a1Ib.jpg

johnydon22:
i noticed something here in nairaland, islam have a separate section and not only that it is also free of criticism and skeptical analysis... i understand that even the moderators are muslims... why not give the christians their own forum with christian moderators. . .So that this religious forum will be a neutral ground for all... then we agnostics, humanists, atheists and deits will use the religion section only to voice our mind on both the two religions so it wont only seem we attack the christians... Seun abeg can you do something about giving the christians their own forum so it would seem fair to all.

Islam has plenty of fanatics who have been constantly threatening fellow Nairalanders, mods and Seun himself with violence and death due to their inability to cope with rational discourse. The Islam section was created to quarantine those fanatics and keep them isolated from the majority of sane people who just want to talk about religion without having to deal with death threats.

The general religion section is open to everybody, Muslims included, its not just for Christians alone. This is a major reason it is so vibrant be cause everybody brings their own point of view, falsehood and irrationality gets challenged and everybody gets to learn something by reading it.

Compare that to the Islam section which is a boring echo chamber rehashing the same tired nonsense over and over like a North Korean news program. The place is a empty wasteland and the only time anything exiting happens there is when a non-Muslim sneaks in to challenge them. Creating a christian section is a bad idea because it is likely to meet the same fate and since Christians are far less likely to kill Seun and the mods, its really not necessary.

The reason they want their own section is because they are tired of being destroyed by secular logic and they want to be able to stifle discussion and post, what is essentially, spam unopposed. This directly against the whole essence of a discussion forum and there is no reason why anybody should humor them. The Muslims get a section because the harbour plenty of violent fanatics and Seun doesn't want to die. Whenever Christians start killing people again, maybe then they can get a section.

@OP: People can say whatever they want on the radio. Whether or not it agrees with your particular religion is irrelevant. Nigeria is a secular country and Christianity has no special rights or privileges. The airwaves are full of intolerant Christians insulting other people's religions all day. It is even fairly common to hear Christians promoting killing people of other faiths and desecrating their holy places in the guise of of "killing witches" and "destroying the works of Satan". The radio does not belong to your religion alone.

You are free to call into the program yourself and counter what the man is saying. If he keeps on defeating you and your co-religionists with logic, perhaps its because your religion is rubbish and you need to change it.

If you can't deal with hearing contrasting ideas or allowing others the freedom to promote their religion the same way you promote yours, you are free to move to Saudi Arabia. I hear that there are no Grail Message preachers on the radio there.

Weah96:
Violent Muslims must be killed. It's a difficult trade-off, but these people cannot be kept lingering around and treated like regular human beings. Society cannot accommodate additional mad people, we already have enough as it is. Allah people want to go to paradise, we should grant their wish.

Killing them will just encourage other crazies to emulate them. Its better to humiliate them by locking them up for a few decades until they die as withered old men. Let them slowly realize that their god has abandoned them, and that he's not there at all.

You never know, maybe some of them may eventually come to their senses an become useful to society again. There are a few former al-queda fanatics who are now helping to counter Islamists brainwashing other young people.

If we just kill them all, we won't be that different from them. We must always give people a chance to redeem themselves, that is the humanist way.

Weah96:
[size=20pt]Excellent [/size] News!! There won't be any Muslim children from those two terrorist brothers in France to bother us in the future. The French SWAT unit has just announced that both brothers have committed suicide, after repeatedly running into a hail of bullets from a dozen assault rifles.

How is this good news? They've given them exactly what they wanted, martyrdom. Now their fellow fanatics will be telling themselves that they're in Paradise receiving Allah's great reward and all that nonsense.

I wish they'd been taken alive so that they could rot in prison, alone and forgotten, with nobody to notice when they eventually died.

Scumbags!

tartar9:
of course moderate muslims are fake because their is nothing like that in Islam you either a muslim or a kafir.those who were executed by the Holy Prophect(SAW) inspite of even warning them all had to die.the main purpose which they used their poetry to do was in instigating wars.

I'm glad you agree. I wish the so-called "moderate Muslims" would just call themselves something else since they don't want to obey the prophet 100% and kill those he instructed them to.

It would make things easier so that when people condemn Muslim fanatics, the moderates will know they're not talking about them, and we can stop this "not all Muslims are like that" nonsense.

It will also help us relate better with the real Muslims. Once you call yourself a Muslim, we sane people can deal with you appropriately.

tartar9:
this is a non-Shariat way of executing justice,only Allah(SA) will judge their executioners.for them producing such blashfemous pictures of the Holy Prophet(SAW) what they faced will be nothing compared to what is to come,they should have given them the chance to repent of their evil.

The prophet Muhammad regularly ordered the assassination of people who insulted him or wrote poetry criticizing him. Unless you want to claim the prophet wasn't a good muslim, I don't see what basis you have to criticize those who kill over cartoons.

Those 2 brothers are true Muslims obeying the Koran; and following the teachings and example of the prophet. The same applies to Boko Haram and ISIS. Its the "moderate Muslims" that are the fakes.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Killings_Ordered_or_Supported_by_Muhammad

Wow, what an amazing man of god! You mean he actually took some of the relatives shopping?!? What a selfless act!

To me that more than compensates for his causing the death of 112 people. Now that he has done this, we no longer have any reason to criticize the great man or to try and uncover the truth of what happened. In fact we should even be praising the MOG.

I mean, after killing their loved ones via carelessness and greed, he took them shopping! With his own money!! And even lodged them in hotels!!! What a lovely testament to the kingdom of god!

OMG, frosbel sounds just like me 10 years ago!

What happened?!? Did logicboy hack his account?

I'm so confused.

Edit: Read his posting history. Epic deconversion in progress! Good job guys, one more mind unshackled.

@Frosbel: Be strong bro, and keep reading and learning. It gets easier.

jiggalo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFJQcUsusnM

http://www.thenewsnerd.com/local/bey-worshipper-found-dead/

Your youtube video says the story is fake. And your link says this:

The stories posted on TheNewsNerd are for entertainment purposes only. The stories may mimic articles found in the headlines, but rest assured they are purely satirical.

The story is bullshit.

stebell:
guy look that pix well and tell it didnt happen in Buhari home zone.

Just because the guy is a northerner doesn't mean he was voting for Buhari. PDP has rigged in the north before, and they had plenty of governors who promised to deliver their states no matter what. Plus CPC was a new party with very few structures and far less rigging experience than PDP. The number of votes Jonathan got in the core north defies explanation given how unpopular he was there. Thats why people there were angry and started rioting.

The "masses of underage voters rigging for Buhari" story is baseless PDP propaganda. They could just have easily have been voting for Jonathan.

If yu hav proof or pix of the rigging in the South South pls do share it.

I have more than just the South South:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xylm1DO-jmM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfhp_Rm2Zws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjy7PSffwCY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elZqVTn3d5Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx-Sbgufs2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xscVLPDt70

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32M2K1Q3czk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryy4MtebZMw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4yYkO10zcI

This is just a few I got off YouTube, all showing either PDP rigging in different places. The second to the last one shows a PDP member using a stolen Data Capture machine to register under-aged northerners.

You almost have to admire the PDP propaganda machine. The way they used evidence of their own rigging to discredit Buhari. That is just Satan-level deviousness.

Other examples of this strategy:
Lie: "Buhari registered Nigeria as a member of the OIC."
Reality: It was actually Babangida, a pro-Jonathan PDP member who did that.

Lie: "Buhari is Muslim fanatic who wants to islamize Nigeria":
Reality: He never showed any signs of being a fanatic when he was in office. Meanwhile, the PDP National Chairman is a Muslim fanatic who islamized his state and imposed sharia on non-Muslims leading to the deaths of dozens of Christians.

stebell:
I guess that kid wit voters card is one of the 12million votes Buhari got.

GEJ till 2019.
Haters go and do the needful.

What makes you think the underage voters where all thumbprinting CPC? You really think the northern PDP governors didn't also rig? How did Jonathan get so many votes in places like Jigawa and Kano?

Lets not forget the blatant and unopposed PDP rigging in the SE and SS, complete with people beating up Buhari agents and even some voters.

Pot, kettle, black.

People who believe bible stories are funny.

So what?

Is it that Christians too don't die or commit suicide? How does the death of one person invalidate an entire religion? Also, how come Christianity and Islam still exist given the millions upon millions of people they've killed/encouraged others to kill/ driven to suicide?

Finally, can someone please post a credible source? The only reference to this story is a gossip mongering Nigerian blog. Don't believe every rubbish thing you read on the internet. This story is almost certainly bullshit.

The Steam Holiday sale is about to enter its second week. Despite my best efforts to control myself, I've already bought 5 games.

May the gods give me the strength to resist temptation.

Why don't they just leave religion alone to grow and spread? What exactly is their problem?

We should all be grateful that DW don't have a comment section. Otherwise thing woulds have gotten ugly.

Deutsche Welle, the German equivalent to the BBC, has published a damning OpEd piece on the federal government's continuing failure to deal with the terrible situation in the north east. Jonathan was singled out for his failure to visit Chibok, to comment on the several more recent attacks and his apparent lack of sympathy for the suffering people there who must have log realized that no government help is coming. Elections are coming soon so some poor people being murdered, kidnapped and räped are not a priority.

The Nigerian army was also not spared for their repeated failures and their recent sentencing of 54 soldiers to death for alleged mutiny.

As harsh as the article is, there isn't much I can say to defend Nigeria. Useless government or no, we should all be ashamed.

Opinion: Nigerian abductions a disgrace
The militant Islamist Boko Haram has struck once, kidnapping and killing civilians. A disgrace - and not just for Nigeria - thinks Daniel Pelz

Suspected Boko Haram militants abducted 185 women and children in an attack on a village in north-eastern Nigeria. It took place not far from Chibok, where the group seized more than 240 girls at a school in April. Eight months later, only a handful of the girls have managed to escape. Nigeria's President Goodluck Jonathan has declined to comment, remaining as tight-lipped as ever. Jonathan has not visited Chibok, nor has he responded to the most recent attacks.

It is unbelievable. Jonathan and his government do not even have a few words of consolation for the families of the 185 abducted women and children, let alone any plan of action. Boko Haram,on the other hand, is free to attack and terrorize the people of northern Nigeria. Abductions by suspected Boko Haram fighters are currently occurring on a weekly basis. In October alone, 70 people were kidnapped. More than 13,000 people have lost their lives since the start of the insurgency in 2009.

Hardly anything is being done to stop the group. Nigeria's poorly paid and ill-equipped soldiers are no match for Boko Haram. Morale in the Nigerian army is at a low ebb. A court martial has just sentenced 54 soldiers to death for mutiny. They allegedly refused to participate in an operation against the militants.

The fate of the people of northern Nigeria seems to be of little interest to the elite in the capital Abuja, whose chief concern is maintaining their grip on power. Nigeria is due hold a general election in February 2015. President Jonathan hopes to be re-elected and the opposition of course wishes to unseat him. So nobody really has the time to deal with Boko Haram. And while the politicians forge alliances, scheme against their opponents and mobilize their voters, the insurgency in northern Nigeria drags on. There are evidently too few votes to be won in the poor, sparsely populated region.

The international response to the crisis is hardly any better. When the Chibok girls were abducted, prominent personalities like Michelle Obama and Angelina Jolie joined campaigners in their online plea to bring back the girls. Yet that was all that happened. While many governments promised to support Nigeria in their fight against Boko Haram, little of that help actually materialized. The international community failed to call on Nigeria's government to take more responsibility for the lives of its citizens. Economic interests once again outweigh the fate of the residents of a remote region, which most people cannot even find on a map.

I feel sorry for with the people of northern Nigeria. They have to deal with the daily threat of terror, abductions, attacks and killings. But unlike their government, they have not remained inactive. Hundreds have joined vigilante groups to protect their towns and villages. They have realized that they have to help themselves as nobody else will help them.

http://www.dw.de/opinion-nigerian-abductions-a-disgrace/a-18142703