MrPresident1:


My friend, move to this side

<<<<<<

This bread here, this one, is for the children of the Kingdom, it is not for outsiders and intruders. You cannot understand these thing because you are not one of us, the Holy Spirit cannot interpret it to you because it has no base in you.

You will be caught unawares because you are not brethren.

Brethren will see it coming, we are not in darkness. Go and get a big KJV Bible and go and join convert class in Deeperlife. This meat here is for mature folks

Lols... The same crap u people repeat every time. The bible was clear about this one, stop trying to rewrite the bible.

chrmn1:
Friend, if you look up Matthew 19:8 it says God permitted them to divorce their woves because they were obstinate about giving up the act but that He never approved of the act. Similarly, the reason why He would seem to 'okay' the act of slavery could be inferred from that passage in Matthew. 'Because of your obstinate hearts' tells me that He had tried to discourage them from he act but they wouldn't yield.

U are comparing divorce with slavery?? And are u implying that God couldn't make a law against slavery because the people liked it?? Because that idea is against the notion that God is omnipotent.
And why did Jesus, the cooler version of his father fail to forbid slavery the same way he forbade divorce?? Or he considered divorce worse than slavery?

KingEbukasBlog:


If Seun puts this on FP ,then the rebuttal should also make FP

Seun should put this one on FP since it has over 2000 views and very interesting arguments

https://www.nairaland.com/3210816/bible-slavery-answering-ignorant-atheists

This thread is useless because of the link above

Are you scared that a lot of people will see this?? Don't worry, u can rebut the issues raised on this thread, on this thread

KingEbukasBlog:


Everything pertaining slavery was discussed in detail on that thread - anything you can think of . I don't have strength to start repeating what has been said . Go and look for another topic that would lead to endless fruitless arguments that won't change anything .

Running away already?? This is your classic move... I raised issues in my reply to you but what do you say?? U don't have strength... Well, while u run, ponder this: God had the time to forbid the eating of shell fish, but forgot to forbid slavery. And when pastor says God is good, u say all the time

chrmn1:

2.You see, if the idea of the young lads acting in knowledge and rebellion as indicated in their words, 'go up,go up you bald one' is anything to go by, then they can only have themselves to blame, knowing the danger of their actions and still going ahead to test the man of God similar to the guy standing in the middle of the road just to
catch his fun.

1. Yeah that's the consequence of man not accepting God's leadership and deciding to cede his legal authority to the one called 'the evil one'. Whoever rules calls the shots. I would have shown you a few scriptures but my phone battery is low. This is far from the ideal situation God wants and so He says to prayer that His will be done on earth as it is in heaven. So all that He's doing at present is redemptive. That's why He's asking you and I to yield ourselves to Him so that He can through us, intervene in this fallen world.

Really, kids are supposedly rebelling and the first thing is to condemn them to gruesome deaths?? He's God not a good god anymore?? Can u as a human being with flaws even throw one kid into a cage with a lion?? Answer this question
The length u Christians go to defend your God, u look like very wicked people. So because of some past events the death of children by hunger is okay... Your God is a sadistic serial killer, deal with it

Scholar8200:
Thanks. I was going to say something about society evolving and that the principles prescribed then (in the Bible) still works today in spite of how far society has evolved....In spite of this metamorphosis, in this 21st century, some folks still see the need to have helpers - maids, drivers, cleaners, babysitters etc and the relationship between both parties is symbiotic. I believe we ought to bear this in mind. Abuse is what is condemned both then and now.

The Bible speaks of beating slaves but remember it also spoke about beating your child when he deserves it.

Did the bible speak against slaves dying as a result of the beating, when the slave doesn't die before the third day?? Or against buying human beings for money?? Dont compare maids, drivers and the likes to slaves. It's insulting to those people. Don't be obnoxious on behalf of your God, he can handle that aspect himself

KingEbukasBlog:

How many times are we going to discuss this ? Are you guys this desperate ?

Anyway , read the rebuttal here : https://www.nairaland.com/3210816/bible-slavery-answering-ignorant-atheists

If that's what you call a rebuttal, you must have a weird way of looking at things...
So because there were no chains around their necks, it's not slavery?? Well, this is the definition of a slave:
A person who is the property of another person and whose labor and also whose life often is subject to the owner's volition.
It was slavery, God didn't forbid it. In fact, by the rules of the bible they could be purchased and beaten, even to death as long as the slave didn't die within two days

chrmn1:
Hi friend. There is such a thing as the permissive will of God (Romans 12:1-3). If I marry a harlot today, God puts a stamp on it because I have signed on the dotted line. He puts His stamp on it not because He feels it's the right thing to do but because He'll always honour a contractual agreement between parties so long as there was no force or duress involved. God will only give the terms in which both parties are to conduct themselves in such a relationship. Regarding slavery in those days, it was a mutually beneficial contract between parties and usually the bondservant would rather stay with his master and serve him because of the provision he/she would get as a result. It was sort of a business engagement that involved terms and conditions and God would work with them even in that context. Here's what He says masters should do in return:

"And you, masters, do the same things to them, giving up threatening, knowing that your own Master also is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him" (Eph 6:9)

No, it was not a mutually beneficial contract... They were merchandize. The bible says they can be purchased and beaten, even killed if they didn't die immediately... There's nothing mutually beneficial about that... Read the verses I quoted again... Just admit your God failed to address the issue

This is not a Testimony... Plss don't insult the lives lost by implying they don't deserve to be saved.

chrmn1:
Okay let's look at this passage together.

Romans 8:19-22:
"For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly (personifying the creation), but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now."

From this passage, we can see the that the consequence of death spilled over to the creation. Of course death here speaks of anything that has to do with decay, disease, corruption and all such things. So in simple terms the Bible teaches that everything wrong in the world is a consequence of man neglecting the leadership of God.

Regarding Elisha, the killing of the young lads was just as wrong as a young man standing in the middle of the road and damning the consequences. Was it a display of ignorance or rebellion? I cannot tell for sure as this was not clearly stated but I believe if the guys were trying to discredit the power of God and the unfortunate happened to them, they could only have themselves to blame just like the guy that stands in the middle of the road and thinks he can always get away with it, perhaps because he did same yesterday.

1. So two adults ate the forbidden fruit thousands of years ago and so babies and toddlers deserve to die gruesome deaths today?? That's basically what you are saying.
2. Your analogy to a person standing in the middle of the road is not relevant. Why? Because, it's reasonably expected that a person that stands in the middle of the road is likely to get hit by a moving vehicle but some kids laughing at a man don't expect to be torn to pieces by bears... Again, if a person driving a vehicle intentionally hits a person in the middle of the road, its wicked and that person is not a good person. So your analogy fails on both counts. Sorry, try again

Seun:
Good question. The answer is that the ancient Jews who wrote the Bible didn't think slavery was wrong. They grew up with it and it was normal to them. The thought of abolishing it completely must have seemed ridiculous. How do you pay your debts if you can't sell your daughters into slavery? What would you do with war captives if you can't make them slaves?

The alternative explanation is that God thinks slavery is ok, and ISIS should not be condemned for practicing it.

I think your first answer shows how the bible and other religious books are pulling us back... To be fair, it was probably okay at that time. But God should have known better. The real issue comes to fore when the Christian European slave masters use the bible to justify slavery. Because of the strong appeal of the God argument, it closed people's minds to the inhumanity of it all and the few who could think beyond their religious indoctrinations couldn't prevail against the more popular Christian opinion. No wonder slavery lasted for four centuries

MrPresident1:


Oya READ

It is a grave error that you are making to form conviction or build doctrine on only a single stand-alone verse. Doctrine and conviction must be built precept by precept.

This same verse you are misinterpreting can be seen in Mark 9:1, and in Luke 9:27.

Fortunately or unfortunately, that verse is talking about you. Jesus was not talking about a time in the past, Jesus is talking about now. And Jesus is talking to people like you.

Mark 8:38 crossing over to Mark 9:1 presents the best perspective to help us understand the Words of Jesus

Mark 8:38
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Mark 9:1
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Jesus is talking about this PRESENT adulterous and sinful generation that will be ashamed of his Words because of the care and profit of this present world. Jesus is asking his disciples, his brethren, what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? This passage is not talking about a time in the past, it is talking about now, this present moment. Jesus is warning his disciples to stay on guard against the deceptive allures of this present world.

This is the exact same symptoms that you are manifesting. Why are you resisting the coming of Christ or is this not the whole purpose of our existence as Christians- To live a righteous life and be on the look-out for the coming of our blessed hope?

Your soul has been taken in and you are manifesting the very signs that Jesus warns against. Covetousness and Greed for the goods of this debased world. You are drunk on salt water and are hideously thirsty for the world’s goods, that’s why you are resisting!

Luke 21:32
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

I have woken you up. If you like go to sleep again.

Either u suck at proving your points or the position you hold is untenable...
Lemme quote the whole passage for you
25 “There will be strange things happening to the sun, the moon, and the stars. On earth whole countries will be in despair, afraid of the roar of the sea and the raging tides. 26 People will faint from fear as they wait for what is coming over the whole earth, for the powers in space will be driven from their courses. 27 Then the Son of Man will appear, coming in a cloud with great power and glory. 28 When these things begin to happen, stand up and raise your heads, because your salvation is near.”

The Lesson of the Fig Tree

29 Then Jesus told them this parable: “Think of the fig tree and all the other trees. 30 When you see their leaves beginning to appear, you know that summer is near. 31 In the same way, when you see these things happening, you will know that the Kingdom of God is about to come.

32 “Remember that all these things will take place before the people now living have all died. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
The preceding verses are obviously talking about the coming of Jesus... So Jesus said those things in the preceding verses- which were talking about the second coming of Jesus- "will take place before the people living at that time have died"

Richirich713:


That's a false dilemma(either something came from nothing or from something else).

There's three not two options one must consider when evaluating what accounts for or explains the fact something exists. Whatever exists must have an explanation of its existence, either something's existence is explained by another, explained by nothing, or its existence is explained by itself (aka self-existence).

Here an analogy given by Saint Anslem to help us get an idea on what is meant by option three:

"Suppose on a cold night we come upon a blazing campfire. We note that a rock a few feet from the campfire is warm. If we ask what explains this fact about the rock (that it is warm), it would be absurd to suggest that the explanation is to be found within the rock itself, that there is something about the nature of the rock that makes it warm. The fire and the nearness of the rock to the fire explain the rock’s warmth.

Suppose we then note that the fire is also warm. What accounts for the fact that the fire is warm? Here it does not seem absurd to suggest that the explanation lies within the fire itself. It is the nature of a fire to be warm just as it is the nature of a triangle to have three angles. To avoid confusion here we must keep clearly in mind that it is the fact of the fire’s warmth we are trying to explain, and not the fact of the fire’s existence. The fact of the fire’s existence is not due to the fire but to the camper who built the fire. The fact that the existing fire is warm, however, is a fact about the fire that is accounted for by the nature of the fire, by what it is to be a fire. We have here, then, an example of a fact about a thing (the fire’s warmth) that is accounted for not by something else but by the nature of the thing itself (the fire)."

God is self-existent and eternal. If we talkin about a being who doesn't have this attributes, then we aren't talking about God but about something else.

Apples and oranges. We are discussing the origin of the existence of a person but your reference is the existence of a nature of a thing... My question is not where did God's nature as a good god came from. If that was the question, the analogy to the origin of the warmth of the fire would be relevant but that's not the question. The question is of existence of the person of God and not his nature. For a nature to exist, there must be a thing possessing the nature.For the fire to be warm, there must exist a fire. For God to be good, there must exist a God... So, explain how God exists not how his nature exists

MrPresident1:


Read. They are all saying the same thing. But you arrive at the truth by studying them compositely, like building a castle from leggo bricks, like solving a giant jigsaw puzzle. Precept must be linked with precept, no stand alone verses.

U are just saying theories... Apply them to those verses and let's see how you arrive at the conclusion that he was talking about people that were not existing at that time

MrPresident1:


My brother, it is not about youthink or methink o, it is about examining Scriptures compositely. Scriptures must be examined compositely to arrive at what God has in mind.

See the composite verses here, a complete examination of those verses will help you to arrive at the truth.

Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
some standing here shall not taste of death

Mark 8:38
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Mark 9:1
9 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Some stand here which shall not taste of death

Luke 9:27
But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
some standing here which shall not taste of death. Choose your choice

All the verses u quoted along with the emphasized parts reinforce my points... Some standing here will not taste death. How can that be construed as referring to peiple that are not existing at that time

MrPresident1:


Scriptures is examined precepts by precepts, the Bible interprets itself, it is a giant jigsaw puzzle. You cannot take one here and build a doctrine on it, you have to look at the other heres and build a sound doctrine on composite verses.

It is like using leggo bricks to build a castle, everything must fit.

If it does not fit,you must acquit

What the hell are u saying?? This is a clear and direct statement by Jesus himself... It's not ambiguous. Me thinks you are only looking for contrary evidence in other verses because it doesn't support you narrative but that's purely and simply the bible

MrPresident1:


I broke this verse down this morning on this same thread. lemme look for it. I broke it down for CHARLOE. I dey kwum

Na im be this.

It is a grave error that you are making to form conviction or build doctrine on only a single stand-alone verse. Doctrine and conviction must be built precept by precept.

This same verse you are misinterpreting can be seen in Mark 9:1, and in Luke 9:27.

Fortunately or unfortunately, that verse is talking about you. Jesus was not talking about a time in the past, Jesus is talking about now. And Jesus is talking to people like you.

Mark 8:38 crossing over to Mark 9:1 presents the best perspective to help us understand the Words of Jesus

Mark 8:38
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Mark 9:1
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Jesus is talking about this PRESENT adulterous and sinful generation that will be ashamed of his Words because of the care and profit of this present world. Jesus is asking his disciples, his brethren, what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? This passage is not talking about a time in the past, it is talking about now, this present moment. Jesus is warning his disciples to stay on guard against the deceptive allures of this present world.

This is the exact same symptoms that you are manifesting. Why are you resisting the coming of Christ or is this not the whole purpose of our existence as Christians- To live a righteous life and be on the look-out for the coming of our blessed hope?

Your soul has been taken in and you are manifesting the very signs that Jesus warns against. Covetousness and Greed for the goods of this debased world. You are drunk on salt water and are hideously thirsty for the world’s goods, that’s why you are resisting!

Luke 21:32
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

I have woken you up. If you like go to sleep again.

One of the verses says: "some of you that stand HERE" How can that refer to people two thousand years later. The Matthew reference says, some of them will not taste death until he comes... He was not referring to people existing now, he was referring to the people he was speaking to
Even Christians don't wanna take the bible at it's word anymore

MrPresident1:


Big mistake on you part, I have not predicted one single thing. What I have done is that, I have looked at the Bible, and I have looked at the world, and I have arrived at the time of the world in the Bible. The Bible is the living breathing book of the past present and future of the world, so THE MOST HIGH GOD has gifted me with the MOST EXTRAORDINARY INSIGHTS into His plans for the world.

I am doing the work of a dutiful watchman, as my Master has bidden me, I am on the anxious look out for His return, I am watching and trying to remain sober as my GREAT MASTER commanded me. When my MASTER comes I pray sincerely, from the very deepest bottom of my heart that my MASTER will find me on duty, watching out, and sounding the alarm, making sure that the people are awake.

Maybe my MASTER will meet me here on NL, I hope, I pray , my MASTER has been gone for so long, and the world has gone to the dogs.

Matthew 16:28 I assure you that there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Son of Man come as King.”
If Jesus' prophecy about his second coming failed, I don't see why yours will be true

abuayman:
Rubbish, instead of him to be jealous and try stop or cautiou her from posting this type of nonsense, he kept quite.

Men stopped being jealous because they stopped being insecure... That's not a bad thing

If she was Nigerian, u would have seen like 10 comments condemning her for her dressing... Hypocrisy

Am just going to post a few verses of the scriptures here showing the position of God towards slavery.
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Now, u would think the new testament would forbid slavery but no, it doesn't:
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

It's greatly disturbing that a supposedly good god who had the time to ban shellfish and the wearing of clothes off different materials didn't forbid one of the worst acts of man's inhumanity to man... What do you think??

Richirich713:


It's impossible for something to come from nothing and by nothing is what I said. It's about high time you lots start listening!

Impossible for something to come from nothing and by nothing?? Right... I guess God must have come from something then

Image123:

Hopefully, you'd answer mine and stop being the accidental superstitious atheist. A hurricane is a huge storm wind, a tsunami is a sea wave caused by the displacement of a large volume of water. It is like asking me if thunder, lightning, cyclone are good or bad. Wind and rain and rock forming processes are natural phenomena. You are no different from my superstitious friend that opines that a small cyclone is caused by evil women in the village. If you stay in its path, it can cause harm, same with lightning, hurricanes and tsunamis. Even rain can kill you if you are not careful. Rain fell last week that brought down poles some streets away from me. Life could have been involved, does that make rain evil? Now answer my questions.

You are missing the whole point and an wondering if it's deliberate... Did God create the earth? Yes, at least to you. Is the earth perfect? No. Did God have the power to create a perfect earth?? If yes, then God is not good, if No, then God is not omnipotent

Image123:


That's not referring to the Second coming but to the transfiguration which happened about a week after. About the period of the second coming, Jesus said even He doesn't know the time, have you ever read that or you don't want to?

Christians are the most dishonest people of all time... The verse says "until you have seen the son of man COME as KING" plss explain how he came as long during the transfiguration. Other verses that contain this prophecy are here:
“Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…“ (Mark 13:26-30)
And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.“ (Matthew 24: 25-34)
Oya, interpret these verses as transfiguration too, I dare you!!

Image123:


Where did He say these? Of course, a human is more likely to understand human communication better than an animal will. The words of Jesus are spirit and life, i understand them better than a sinner does. It's commonsense.

Matthew 16: 28 I assure you that there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Son of Man come as King.”
So u don't even read your bible?? There are three other places he said this... Even your Jesus no be original prophet sef

Image123:



That something causes death doesn't mean that that something is evil. That's why i mentioned other things that cause deaths, even more deaths annually than tsunamis and hurricanes. Hahn, if no life or property was lost in a tsunami or hurricane but it was only observed from far, would you consider it as evil? Are volcanic eruptions and other mountain building processes evil? Are you superstitious or just a freelance thinker? Why do you think death is evil?

This is crazy?? Alcohol give pleasure, food sustains life and machines make work easier... What good do tsunamis do?? ... Am beginning to think you are as sadistic as your God

chrmn1:
The conditions of the earth are imperfect. I've explained that this was a direct result of man deciding to run the world independent of God. And it's not only earthquakes, there are at least a thousand and one imperfections in the world today. God did not kill the young lads. God gave Elisha a gift to make declarations and see them come to pass. But Elisha used the gift to curse the young lads and the rest was history

If you say the young guys just came out of the blues and had never met Elisha, you may be wrong because the Bible never said so. That would amount to limiting the scope of all that may have actually gone down leading to the death of the lads. In fact some scholars say that the words, "go up, go up" used by the young guys showed a certain level of knowledge of the prophet displayed by them and was an attempt to mock the event of Elijah ascending and handing over to Elisha. I wouldn't say this is an accurate account but I wouldn't rule it out either. The passage where it says not to add to the scripture actually refers to a revelation given to John (iirc). In any case, I'm not saying this and that happened, I'm only telling you that we don't have the full picture.

Plss biblical reference for natural disasters bring as a result of man deciding to run the world independent of God, u are a Christian, back your claims up
And as regards the Elisha story, it doesn't matter if they had met before... It's wrong to kill children and it's also wrong to stand by and let children die

But seriously... Where do u guys get all these memes.. They are funny and make a lot of sense at the same time

4everGod:
smh @ OP.

How old are you really? People are busy being productive and thinking about how to better the world and all you have to worry about is a meme war?

I can see you are productive and thinking about how to better the world... By telling people not to have a meme war.
Are u really that bothered that Christianity will be ridiculed

hopefulLandlord:


you know that your bullying tactics has never worked on me and would never work on me

Oh, no... I just believe the Christian God is bullshit, since that's the one I've learned about well enough

chrmn1:
You see, the natural disasters are caused by gradual increase in global temperature. This is not God's doing even though people say they are 'acts of God'. Man wanted to run the world independent of God right from the beginning as per biblical records and even till now so I'm not sure why God should take the blame for these happenings. God did not murder the kids as you claim, He didn't. I'm not trying to add to the Bible account. I'm only refusing to narrow the scope of what may have happened.

Wait!! Earthquakes are also caused by gradual increase in temperature?? Or earthquakes are not natural disasters?... And assuming you are right, while make an earth susceptible to increase in temperature if you are an all powerful God?? And plss earthquakes are not caused by man
God murdered those kids. Elisha cursed them and God provided two she-bears to devour 42 of them and believing and abiding strictly by the biblical account of an event is not narrowing... In fact, that's what the bible commands

Richirich713:
this dog is a theist

So you understand logic?? Why not apply it to your beliefs and see how stupid they suddenly become