₦airaland Forum

Rilwayne001:
All right

What can you say about Jewesun?

Rilwayne001:
I watched a yoruba movie a very long time aho like that, opele was said to be human being (one of the apprentice of ifa), when he started receiving bribe from ifa customers, ifa got angry and turned him to a divination chain.

Is that^^ true?




So how will you know if your "ori" dictate such profession?

Did you ever check your "akosejaye" ?

I have watched the same movie. It is Osa eleye. That is simply movie.

Ori lonise. . . .ibi ori gbemi re, ki ese mi ma kona.

My parents did checked my Isekojaye. I have not done it myself.

Rilwayne001:
So what is "opele"?

Opele is divination chain.


Becoming Babalawo or Ajawesanu or Onisegun will only be dictated by my Ori.

Rilwayne001:
Is "Ope" same as "Opele"?



@bolded thats exactly what I wanted to say.

Meanwhile, What's the meaning of "oturupon" ?

Must one become an "awo" before babalawo can enlighten one about all these things?

Ope is palm tree. Ope is the samething with Ifa.

Otuutupon is like a book in Ifa. Just like Exodus is in bible.

To the baba awo, I am ogberi. So he has to tell me very little. Ifa is esoteric knowledge.

The man was just reciting Oriki very fast. I do not capture or have time to write anything down.

He said Omode ko foju bodu lasan lai sawo

I came across a character call Jewesun in Odu Owonrin sogbe and Oyeku when I was surfing the interent some days ago. According to the Odus', Jewesun was said to be son of Ope (Ifa) and first child of Eledumare. Jewesun is said to be Jesus christ of the hebrews.


In Odu Oyeku Meji:

Atanpako ku re lese,
Gbogbo ara o jo rin pe
Bi aba pe oku ni popo,
Alaaye ni ng dahun
Adifa fun jewesun - ( Jesu - kristi )
ti nse okanbi Eledumare agotun
olomo ateni ola legelege f'ori sagbeji
nigba ti o nbe nigbatemu omo araye
ebo won ni ko se.
Ero po , ero ofa,
Eni gbe bo nbe ko to ju ohun ebo,
Ero po, ero o fa


The Oyeku meji verse in English

Absence of toes
make body move worstly
when death is called at way of a distance
It's living being that will response to the call
Cast Ifa for jewesun the son of Almighty
who place his mighties in mightiest in wealthies path
when he was amidst of enemies and he was told to make sacrifice,
In order to overcome the plot that was going to be hatched by human beings against him.



While in Odu Owonrin Sogbe:

Owonrin So
Ogbe So,
Adifa fun Orunmila
Baba nlo te Jewesun ni fa
Ebo won ni ko se,
Nje Jewesun se rere
Jewesun Omo ope.
Owonrin So, Ogbe So,


Translation in English

Owonrin divined
Ogbe divined
Diviners cast Ifa for Orunmila
when he wanted to pass jewesun into Ifa,
he was advice to make sacrifice.
Jewesun art wisely
Jewesun the son of Ope" Ifa"
Owonrin divined
Ogbe divined




Jewesun according to these two Odu is the son of Ope (what diviners commonly refer to as Ifa) and also been refer to as first child of Olodumare (the supreme God). However, lot of people interprete Jewesun to mean Jesus.

Jewesun literally mean 'let the leaf sleep'. I dont see that literally giving way for Jesus of hebrew. But the point from Jewesun is reffered to as son of God brought i confusion.

I know Ifa made mention of Imale in Odu Otua meji just like we have stories of Sango in Okanran meji. Imale mean muslims. My spiritual tutor confirm this but he is not ready to detail me. He also affirm that Christinity is touched in Ifa. He mentioned Oturupon and not Oyeku meji. The issue is that this old man is not ready to carry me along because I am not awo.

Notwithstanding, Jewesun from both odus does not seem to have relation with Jesus to me. It seems some folks are trying hard to force Hebrew myth into Yoruba spirituality.

But I seriously want to know who Jewesun is.

Is he the Hebrew Jesus?

Did Jesus meet Orunmila?

Or this is false odu fuss into Ifa?



Cc Macof, Ghostofsparta Pastoraio

DProDG:
Lol...I don't have as much free time as you do

Typical hateist.


Lol. . . .

Indeed, atheism is noises of folks who cannot justify religious belief.

Bragging around that you disbelief in existence of GOD but take to their heel when god is defined.

When divinities and supernatural cant help, they run hiding. Crazy folks.

Cheers

johnydon22:
Sure thing bro... Have put it to rest..

You have to run when it is hard enough.

DProDG:
You just keep beating around the same bush. Do I have to explain something you obviously already know to you?

Atheists do not reject the existence of material objects like stars, stones, trees, man etc(see how I'm explaining it like you're a toddler) but rather reject the notion of divinity and any other supernatural attachment to it.

Stop wasting both our times with pointless questions like that.

Hold ya breathe bro.

How do you define divinity and supernatural?

I think you draw lot of fallacious meaning into divinity and supernaturals.

Divinity mean being divine which as well mean 'very good, beautiful; magnificent; pleasant; delightful and godlike'.

Supernatural is any phenomena, real or imagined, that is unexplainable by naturalistic means according to our current understanding.

So how does these two stop material entity from been God?


Do you belief in the existence of non-supernatural gods? Ex Spinoza god.

Esdb3:
I will if you can prove the existence of MAN. How did man come to be.

Knowing the origin of man does not justify his existence.

You could have ask him what is 'self'; the I or me. And also ask if the inner self exist. If yes, they should prove it

DProDG:
Sir don't waste more of your time. This argument comes down to
-"people think stones are gods. Do you deny stone's(god's) existence?"
-"Hindus worship the singularity that birthed the universe. Do you deny the big bang?"

When too many dictionary defintions start pouring out from no where, it's obvious it's coming down to word games.

This is not word game but fusing a+theo to all branches of theism.

Atheism from the word a + theos mean disbelief in the existence of god/gods.

But do atheist care to define what they mean by god? Nope. So I dont think you need to run or complain when I relay to you different concept of God.

In pantheism and animism, stone is god.

In apotheosis, man is god.

In the bible, man is god.

In astrolatry, Star is god


So fuss this together, will an atheist claim disbelieve in god define according to these concepts and branch of religion?

johnydon22:
Lol devas are defined(देव Sanskrit and Pāli) in Buddhism is one of many different types of
non-human beings http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deva_(Buddhism) nothing supernatural huh?

Does this make devas supernatural? Are there non human beings again? What sort of reasoing is this?

Do you even know what superntural is?

johnydon22:
Then for the mythology part..
Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths and miracles as poetic fancies.
To teach superstition as truth is horrifying. The mind of the child accepts them and only through great pain perhaps tragedy can the child be relieved of it.
Men will fight for superstition as quickly as the living truth- even more so; since superstition is intangible, you cant get at it to refute it but truth is a point of view and so is changeable Hypatia of Alexandria...

We enjoy fables and mythologies, you struggle tooth and nail to establish them as truth because you believe them.. Lol.. i wonder how may of them u will believe.. Now that is your business.. M Done with the baseless argument over the belief of mythology..

Crap!

Our discussion is not about belief in myth but tackling the truthful issues it hold.

Ogun to me is not a superman but mythical illustration of chemical element.

This is the beauty of literature and cultural heritage, not just belief system. Here, myth roll in with metaphor, symbols and personification. These expression describe a phenomenon in another way but hold the same meaning to it. Myth define a specific culture's wealth in terms of collective mind possibilities.

Mythology is a vast body of knowledge that has not been tapped. - Devdutt Pattanaik


The point of mythology or myth is to point to the horizon and to point back to ourselves: This is who we are; this is where we came from; and this is where we're going. And a lot of Western society over the last hundred years - the last 50 years really - has lost that. We have become rather aimless and wandering. - J. Michael Straczynski

Lady Justice, Gaia and Ogun does exist.

You can always run from it but the truth is that this gods exist

johnydon22:
You see once you mentioned you believed in glaring mythologies i decided to quite wasting my time with you..

But i want to correct another assertion … @bolded.. they recognize and believe the existence of demons.. eg Mara.

There is nothing you want to tell me about buddhism which I dont already know. Ya I know devas and lot of ritual practises in buddhism but there is no superntural attributes to them. It is as that simple.

Let me slide on myth.

http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/mythfaqs.htm .according to this link, myth should not be thrown outside but should be studied so as to understand the coded msg encoded in it.

For example, In Yoruba creation myth, Ogun - Iron deity moulded man bone. But a look at science, we learnt that calcium builds bone. Calcium is a metallic chemical element. Therefore, you will see through that Ogun represent Calcium in the mythical aspect and the mythology is truth only when seeing through the other side of the metphor and symbols.

Myth hold truth metaphorically and symbolically. http://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology .

Wisemen dont throw it out. But they dig out the truth embedded in it.

I know of the mythical account of Yemoja - water godessess. The story depite the history of water.

I believe in myths not as myth but the truth it holds.

So wise up.

johnydon22:
here was my post



and here was your reply



You see? its obvious who left out the part were i said conscious scroll up and see ..


My description is hewn from the wikipedia encyclopedia http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_(mythology)
Am not sure you really know what myth means..

Now i have arrived, someone believing a myth even after agreeing its myth..Lol.. i wouldnt waste more time arguing with you is clear enough.

This is serious evasion.

I asked lot of questions but you tend to evade it without tactfully addressing the issue.

Myth is not necessarily false.

johnydon22:
exactly we both agree on this cus supernatural is disbelelieve

You are being selective. Cant you bear the hard punch any longer?

Everything in nature is super. So thanks.

johnydon22:
You see, you base your definitions based on individual deductions, I think a reputable renown world encyclopedia is a better source not any individuals idea..

let me just drop a screenshot of wikipedia encyclopedia definition of religion.. as for fela spirituality, that yet is still his individual deduction, lets stick with the encyclopedia

The definitions you post around do not cover many religion.

There are lot of non-theistic conception and also buddhism has nothing to do with supernaturals. How would you throw in a definition that does not cut across it tenet.

Like my little, he defines a lion as an animal that has four leg, a tail and a big head. But does that make goat a lion?


I found also in one dictionary, football is defined as a religion. Does this mean Oxford dictionary is not reliable here?

johnydon22:
Do you mean conscious entity or just an entity?

Planet earth? Yes is so so in existence...

A goddess gaia who lives on earth, is the consort of uranus bla bla bla ? No doesnt exists.. as simple as that

let me add a picture of the goddess gaia too

You shifting from entity to conscious entity.

Well I hold the belief that the universe and including planet earth is very conscious. This is an extent to which you define what consciousness as.

Your description is balderdash.

Lady justice is a greek mythical greek goddess just like Gaia. They both share the same allegory personification or representation of a substance which in turn are been served as a deity. She is a beatiful lad.

Lady Justice took relation of Themis and Maat which are Hellenic and egyptian goddess respectively. Themis has a daughter called Dike who help in carrying scale around. She was adopted in rome as Iustitia carrying scales and a sword, and wearing a blindfold.

She wore a black apron on a silver blouse and swind her sword everywhere.

Will you say lady justice does not exist because she is mythical expression of justice?


This applies to Gaia too. They are both mythical goddesses but exist in reality.



http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Iustitia

http://www.commonlaw.com/Justice.html

johnydon22:
Am sure we have treated this crap before in your thread and am not ready to repeat all and start going in circles again..

Gaia is a greek mythological personification of earth.. still the same thing we were talking about brahma.. Earth is a planet not an entity.

Is earth a conscious entity or just a planet?

is gravitational singularity a conscious entity? Choose..

Oga pls.

Earth is an entity. It exist on it own.


The question you evade is do you disbelieve in the existence of gaia? Yes or No?

DProDG:
Lmao...is this a joke or something?

Anything you take it to mean

johnydon22:
Lol so this is ur idea of going hard? lmao.. try harder

Okis

johnydon22:
magic is mere parlour trick, agreed. this we always maintained because we disbelief the existence of anything supernatural

I repeat, magic is a trickery science and art. It has nothing to do with supernaturals.

Chris angel is a magician and does not have any attribute like supernatural.

johnydon22:
You may do well to define them..

Prof. Robert Bellah defines religion as a set of symbolic forms and acts that relate man to the ultimate conditions of his existence. This definition certainly extends the concept to cover non-theistic philosophies of life such as materialism, naturalism etc and including atheism.

Edmund Optiz said your religion is the fundamental way you approach, understand, and evaluate all subjects. It consists of your first principles, the truths you regard as self-evident, the basic axioms you take for granted, and through which you view everything else.

johnydon22:
Why dont you show us

Conjecture and hypotheis is likely myth.

johnydon22:
I've seen it before

That?

Have you seen definition of spirituality by fela?

To be spiritual is not by praying and going to church. Spiritualism is the understanding of the universe so that it can be a better place to live in.

Does this sound like science?

johnydon22:
hahahahahahaha nope stone exists i call it a stone, you call it your god. it doesnt stop it from being a stone. it is a stone nd not a conscious entity..

I just love ur defence...Some people call a stone a god therefore god exists i don die oo.. i call my girl friend a god therefore god exists

So once again is the gravitational singularity a conscious entity or not?

Human is god. Conventional religion agrees to this.

It is not just by calling. It is concept of what god is.

Afterall, man is defined as god in dictionaries.

Atheism is about god and mean man does not exist.

Do you disbelieve in gaia? She is a goddess.

johnydon22:
let us consult the dictionary

Seriously I do not want to go hard with you. But I have to.

johnydon22:
magic : the power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or
supernatural forces.

Magic is simply trickery science employed into art.

Chris angel do not have supernatural power. It tricks people with scientific knowledge and makes money from the art.

johnydon22:
mythology : a collection of myths, especially one belonging to a particular religious
or cultural tradition.

Hypotheis and conjection is what pls?

johnydon22:
religion: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a
personal God or gods.

You need to serch for sociological definition of religion.

johnydon22:
spirituality: Spirituality is the praxis and process of personal transformation , either in
accordance with traditional religious ideals, or, increasingly, oriented on
subjective experience and psychological growth independently of any
specific religious context. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality

there is a definition of spirituality here https://www.nairaland.com/1459258/atheism-spirituality-two-coexist#18460787

check it out

johnydon22:
simple question, its not a matter of it being referred to as a god..
Some people call a stone a god so thats not the question..

Is gravitational singularity an entity or not?

Does that stop it from being a god?

You just shot yourself and expose atheism flaws.

You disbelieve in the existence of god. Yet again admit some people worship stone as god knowing fully well that stone exist. Thereofre god exist.

johnydon22:
..hahahahahahahahahahaha so brahman is a gravitational singularity or an entity which is it?

To it is gravitational. To hindis, it is god.

Astolatry worship stars as deities. This does stop star fro, being ball of gas.

johnydon22:
But yet now fully distinguished from each other..

Alchemy differs from modern chemistry in its inclusion of Hermetic principles and practices related to mythology, magic ,
religion, and spirituality . . .

Now you see the difference

Magic is science.

Mythology is mere expression.

Religion is way of live

spirituality is observance of natural law.


This are component of science.

johnydon22:
..lol.. you see? a scientific cosmic singularity refers to A gravitational singularity or spacetime singularity; a location where the
quantities that are used to measure the gravitational field become infinite
in a way that does not depend on the coordinate system . These quantities
are the scalar invariant curvatures of spacetime, which includes a measure
of the density of matter.

their is no way this is an entity, so you brahma ish entities are mere assumptive speculations.. dont exist

The Isha Upanishad says:

Auṃ – That supreme Brahman is infinite, and this conditioned Brahmanis infinite. The infinite proceeds from infinite. If you subtract the infinite from the infinite, the infinite remains alone, still infinite.


Just liek cosmic singularity, Brahman swell, expand, grow, enlarge. The totality of this brought us to pantheism concept.

You cant run from ya shadow.


Brahman exist

johnydon22:
But is alchemy chemistry?

Alchemy birth chemistry.

Just like astrolatry birth astronomy

johnydon22:
one example?

Alchemy and chemistry

johnydon22:
By likening cosmic singularity to brahman and eledumare, Do you still refer these gods as entities ?

Yes.

I remember ancient religion esp in egypt where kings and emperor are worshipped as God. These gods are enitities and does exist.

Now this is proven. Do you disbelief in the existence of Brahman, Eledumare, Spinoza and pantheists god?

Pr0ton:
Most of those theists are just bunch of ignorant confused beings. If they had taken the time to learn both religion and science they would see the implausibility of reconciling both.

Just as their book says, "my people perish for lack of knowledge"

Lol

The Big bang theory in science and many religious concept have lots in common. Reason why Sam Harris, a renowed atheist sees buddhism as a stepping stone.

The wise one dont run from hard rocks. . . .from there comes gold.


Note, alchemy birth chemistry.

Want me to tell you more?

johnydon22:
Can you blame him? I can see he thinks science to be some sort of belief system. I dont blame the kid tho, he needs to start reading

If you have read your book, you would have known that most scientific theories originate from spiritualist esp priests.

Does this make you throw science out because it originate from spirituality and religion?

johnydon22:
Nope thats not it... you are way very so so very wrong

here is the question, just two nice simple words

[size=20]Prove it [/size]

You have a good response there.

Also the OP has a point but he chose to hold unto 'uncaused cause' feature of god.

If by this we are going to employ your PROVE IT question atheists ask, looking inwardly, you will have to agree to that God does exist but not as anthromorphical being as some religion depite it.

For example, Brahman is Hindi supreme God. It represent the cosmic singularity that caused the existence of the universe and everything there in. Whether it is caused is generally not know. But we admit through the big bang theory that existence springs from the cosmic singularity. This is served as God called Brahman in Hinduism, and also it is served as Eledumare in Yoruba spirituality.

In pantheism concept, God is nature that is totality of everything. We all know that nature exist, hence God does exist.

This brought us to God in spinozism. God here is natural law. We dont really need to disturb ourselves with proving existence of Natural laws.


Now this is proven. Do you disbelief in the existence of Brahman, Eledumare, Spinoza and pantheists god?

lastmessenger:
I can give anything if only you can connect me to one single spiritual wife. Let's make a deal.

You dont know what you want.

malvisguy212:
your post make a lot of sense, you need to read the second post on this thread https://www.nairaland.com/2146831/cast-out-demons-sonoflucifer-free
The second post on the thread I paste possessed lastmessenger.

I am not against asking questions. I detest taking other peoples conviction which one is ignorant of as a joke.

He knew spiritual wives are better than their physical counter-part but feign ignorance when asked to tell us what spiritual wife or spouse is. Ghosthunter who doesnt believe in the existence of ghost. His own delusion is beyond religitards