₦airaland Forum

UyiIredia:
1) Atheism isn't a religion

What is religion in the first place. How do you define it? We can know the relationship of atheism and religion with your definition.

Note pls, do you give me definition that wont cover whole religion system.

UyiIredia:
2) It's only religious to the extent that there are atheist organizations, creeds and common beliefs.

You can remove the word 'extent'.

No matter the degree of measurement, when it contain substance of a religion, it is a religion.

UyiIredia:
3) Not all atheists are communists, and many don't agree with Karl Marx's views.

Actuall Sam Harris practise buddhism and he is still an atheist.

And you gon tell me atheism is not a religion?

DProDG:
You only proved my point.

Stop dodging when you are already put into the corner. I am not proving your point. I have proved that man is an object of worship which makes him a deity. This you disgareed to.

DProDG:
An individual who considers something/someone a deity is in no way an atheist.

Atheist worship something or someone. Inasmuch worship is involve, the act is directed to deities. That is going by the definition of worship.

Atheism is only noises. . . . .

DProDG:
Proving my point again...

Quit this crap. You have been nailed.

dalaman:
A video of the Osanyi you are making all these incredible tales and assertion about was posted here. It says nothing about what you are alleging. Just a doll making sounds and a man claiming to interpret the sound it's making and claiming the doll is talking . Go make your own Osanyi with a verifiable claim amd display it here for us all to see. That's how we all learn and accept things.

Oh Ghost. Did you tell this guy you are initiated to Osanyin cult and know how to build Osanyin?

And you wonder what, this guy is asking you to bring it here. How can one put something to a test without contact? How do we test efficancy of something on internet? They want you to come with a video so as to argue it is editted or manipulated to look like fact given evidence. The world is crazy.

OP, NO lot words. You guys have been challenged. Can you come out, have a conversation with Osanyin and prove it voice is from outside of it?

@Ghostofsparta

You are doing a great job here but I think this people you are doing it does not worth the energy you are wasting.

I could remember in 2009 till this very moment, this issue has been argued with nothing to bring out of it. All we had is just load of words that ran through 70 pages on nairaland. All we had is numerous thread and heated argument that yield no result than insult on the both sides.

I have tactfully ignore all forms of argument here because it is fruitless. The challenge is there, it is their choice to pick it up or leave it for those that are bold enough. We know the serious ones and the noisemakers. We know the chicken little and the fox. We know Mazaje, Logicboy and there likes. We know rationalmind, uyiiredia and there likes. We know what each person stand for.

We have challenged them and stand on what we said even till tomorrow. I will advise you quit arguing with them. We are not harming anybody so they should be bold enough to come out for the challenge. I dont have £10,000 as promised by Mazaje but I can still give some token as a prize for anyone that prove ineffectiveness of Ogun esp Osanyin speaking through ventriloquitic process.

Prgrossive change we decide to stand. No gravity would pull us down. We remain firm with you sir.

Nigeria for Buhari

DProDG:
Okay, so ideology?

What is the meaning of this? ?

The OP is talking about atheism and religion. He is not talking about popular ones but all religion. Can you tell me what ideology has to do with this?

DProDG:
Non-theistic religions are regarded as philosophies but are occasionally referred to as religions because of their similarities, so I stand by my assertion(I must add 'the belief in' and not just 'worship of' though).

This is also wrong sir

Many religion do not recognise god therefore believe in or worship any god is rule out. Yet and as you agree, they are perceive as religion.

And the point you missing bro, whether it is non theistic or theistic religion, it is still a religion. The definition you provide does not away cover ALL aspects of religion.

DProDG:
Yes, but influential people(gods) are never worshiped, eg Karl Marx.

Do you know the meaning of worship at all?

You can simply google imperial cult, celebrity worship, ancestor worship and hero worship. To put this on rest too, worship is been defined on wiki as an act of religious devotion usually directed towards a deity.


- Imperial cult= according to wiki is a form of state religionin which an emperor, or a dynasty of emperors (or rulers of another title), are worshippedas messiahs, demigodsor deities. " Cult" here is used to mean " worship", not in the modern pejorative sense. This is a religiois devotion usually directed toward a deity (kings, empetior and leaders)

- celebrity worship= an act of religious devotion usually dirrected toward a deity (celebs).

- ancestors worship= an act of religious devotion usually directed toward a deity (ancestors).

Hero worship = an act of religious devotion usually directed toward a deity (heroes or influencial person).


Deity has been proven to be learders, celeb, ancestors and human.

Human worship anything. Atheists worship something too. Such a devotion is directed to a deity; that thing which is worship.

DProDG:
However people that are considered deities, are(most often than not), eg Kim Jong Un.

Are you in postion to tell them what to believe a deity is?

The Iroko tree in my yard is a deity, it is been worship by people. The snake is worship and perceive as deity in many culture. This is their belief and conviction.

DProDG:
Did you notice that none of the definitions have anything to do with 'an influential person' as you described previously? Rather, they refer to divinity. Don't get hooked in your own word games.

oh really?
Deity is defined here http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=definition%20deity&spell=1&sa=X

de·i·ty - /ˈdēədē,ˈdāədē/
noun
1. a god or goddess (in a polytheistic religion).



While god is http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&spell=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=definition+god

3. an adored, admired, or influential person.



This is very simple for you to find.

DProDG:
I've addressed the emboldened. Acknowledging the worth of Karl Marx doesn't make it a religion till he's considered adeity. You also seem to forget that there are both religious and non-religious definitions of 'worship'.

1. Worship is worship. I guess you think it all about bowing down in the temple which is half correct.

2. People (of influence) are worship. You can quickly google what imperial cult is. These people are seen as DEITY.

DProDG:
Yet again, you refer to religion as an ideology, which is fine until you decide to put Christianity under the same umbrella.

Christianity is just a theological aspect of religion. Yet as agreed, it is still under the umbrella but the point is, defining religion without covering it total conception is wrong. Atheism is very much under this umbrella.

DProDG:
You pick two random individual definitions that more or less describephilosophiesand ask me how atheism doesn't fall under? Ok...

My definitions cover all the facets of religion and not just some form like the one you provided.

Going by your definitions;

1. Does taking of hallucinating drugs like Opium equates to a religion?

2. Science traffics in ignorance, cultivates it, and is driven by it. Does the scientific question and search for the unknown equates as a religion?


These are things that would prove your definition has it left leg missing. It is falling.

DProDG:
The conventional definition of a religion only has to do with the worship of a deity, based on faith. Any group or organisation that does such can be classified as a religion.

The Op is talking about religion generally and not conventional form of it.

And going by your assertion that religion has to do with worship of deity then we have to agree that confusionism, taosim and buddhism is not a religion. This assertion as you know is wrong because confusionism, taoism, buddhism and jainism neither worship deity not necessarily recognise it existense.

DProDG:
I used the word deity previously so we could put the semantics surrounding 'god' to rest. You said it yourself, the word 'god' has different meanings and yet the OP uses it as one.

Deity is the samething as God. Human as well is God.

History justified that kings and emperiors are worship in the ancient worlds. In many cultures today, human being are being worship as God. I can list human god in there number to you.

DProDG:
And no, according to Christianity, Yahweh/Jehovah is God.

To which Jesus said 'ye are gods' reffering to fellow humans. I dont even need to denegrate to animals serve as gods. . . .

DProDG:
Yes, more word games. God≠deity.

wrong sir

Reference to http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=definition%20deity&spell=1&sa=X , deity = god/goddess





That put to corner. . .

Religion as defined by many scholars spread over atheism. Going by your conventional religion definition stated as worship of deity, atheism is still under the tent of religion.

Let me define those two important term in religion; worship and deity/god.


1. Worship is acknowledging worth of someone or something.

2. God/deity is very much a cap that fit man's head esp influencial person.

Atheists generally acknowledge the worth of influencial person. This when put back in few words mean atheist worship god. This is a religion.





There are many definition of religion atheisms still stand under for shade.


Prof. Robert Bellah defines religion as a set of symbolic forms and acts that relate man to the ultimate conditions of his existence. This definition certainly extends the concept to cover non-theistic philosophies of life such as materialism, naturalism etc and including atheism.

Edmund Optiz said your religion is the fundamental way you approach, understand, and evaluate all subjects. It consists of your first principles, the truths you regard as self-evident, the basic axioms you take for granted, and through which you view everything else.


So pls tell me sir, from the two definitions how atheism doesnt fit in.

OP

the uncaused cause is energy.

Case closed

onetrack:
I'm atheist but I generally agree with humanist thought. WHO IS MY GOD??

many influencial people GOD. Those ones influencing you are your GODS. You know them

DProDG:
Why do we bother arguing about definitions when we've got dictionaries?

Defining the word "religion" is fraught with lot difficulties. No one definition can encompass all the varieties of belief and practice that have been called religion. Actually, it is a universal social institution, but it takes a multitude of forms. The dictionaries you have will only define one aspect or form of it while leaving the rest uncovered which is uneven justice.

DProDG:
Role models do not equate to gods. Even if you decide to use that word, bear in mind that it has different meanings and does not always mean deity as used in the religious sense.

An influence person is god according to dictionary.

Titan which is god and mean powerful person.

According to many organised religion; especially christianity, human is god.


So this assertion is wrong.

DProDG:
Also, being enthusiastic about something/someone doesn't make you religious.

reverance is equivalent to worship which is a very constant word in many definitions.

We worship people and that makes them a god.

Spiderman is the new age moses.


Yes he existed. . . .only in fiction stories

I guess there are plans on ground bringing this plan to halt cuz I dont want this alarm of a thing. Necessary ways of blocking this should be ready too.

major466:
Later Buhari will swear heaven and earth that he has only one million in his account.

These were donations from Nigerians to her Foundation. This doesnt mean she bought those items by herself. You guys need to wise up.

Pr0ton:
Not without going unexamined. Especially a trending topic like that.

This doesnt mean it cannot be editted

Pr0ton:
Tell the guy to perform the voodoo there and let me get the effect here. That'll be more convincing. Not the one that I'll get there and start making investigation again.

In your :. . . . Head, you would test efficiancy of a gun without contact with the shooter and it kit huh?


Pls spare me. . . .when you ready, you know what to do. You can always enjoy the talk

Pr0ton:
Are you are asserting that Wikipedia is a scam (since it doesn't support your claim) ?

Anyone can input anything on wiki.

Pr0ton:
What challenge? I see no challenge there. Just a psycho running on heat.

Who is the psycho running on heat?

The sky is big enough bro. . . .fly high, I dont trend with people that insult others.


If you are really interested in this issue, Ghostofsparta is there. . . .reach a contact with him and pick his challenge.

Now >>>

blym4real:
even the bible acknowledge other powers but God power is the ultimate.
I don't believe in charm but have seen it potency before.

Keep that bible till when we need it. It add no relevance to this topic

blym4real:
Am a christian but have seen voodoo at work before.
How do you explain someone been shot at but the bullet can't pierce through the skin, someone been matcheted but no wound or mark, how do yahoo guys use voodoo in controling their mugu abroad e.t.c.
NOTE: I'm writing from experience.

Your own self get K-leg

Atheist and disbeliever in Charm have been unable to picj up this challenge https://www.nairaland.com/1510778/all-atheists-once-all

Only Eledua knows when we will stop talking and walk

Unbias:
Next time ask him to strike you with charm that will make you fall flat and become unconscious. I'm sure he would have done that successfully. Go to Ijebu land to dare real native doctors, then come back to tell us the story

The story is tale by the moonlight.

He is lying.

blym4real:
what your conclusion?

The plea by the JTF chairman did not go down well with the armed soldiers and in the ensuing confusion, the chairman of the civilian JTF was shot four times, but the soldiers missed their target.

A police inspector overseeing the gate of the shopping complex was hit on the nose by stray bullet and is now receiving medical attention at an undisclosed hospital.

http://newtelegraphonline.com/pandemonium-in-yola-as-soldierscivilian-jtf-clash/

Do you know what Ayeta is?

It is simply bullet deflecter. Yes this is real charm



do you know why the CJTF and hunters are doing well better than your well funded soldiers and big machines?

What is your conclusion?

kevoh:
I have watched the video, nothing spectacular. An experienced ventriloquist will pull the same trick, I understand a bit of yoruba and it seems to me like the man keeps suggesting phrases (for us to believe) Osanyin must have said.

Anyway, for knowledge sake I have read claims that Osanyin will answer any question you ask it, my question is why are people who know about Osayin not using to solve medical problems like Cancer, HIV, Ebola e.t.c. What is stopping them?

Oga, you refused to read my reply here.

FOLYKAZE:
After watching this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anMEv923HRU
Ask from your locality what Osanyin is. Seek it and interrogate the talking doll Knight of atheism is scared of.
When you done with this, you can talk about next thing

Have you met with Babalawo on your phone? What did he say about Osanyin? Have you guys agreed that you will converse with it?

One learn through experimenting and observation and not asking irrelevant question or passing it to the wrong person.

Seek for knowledge.

Go out there and meet babalwao. They are not zombie that would scrae you off. When you get hand on one Osanyin, it wont cost you anything, you can interrogate it even without the presence of the Baba.

kevoh:
I have watched the video, nothing spectacular. An experienced ventriloquist will pull the same trick, I understand a bit of yoruba and it seems to me like the man keeps suggesting phrases (for us to believe) Osanyin must have said.

Anyway, for knowledge sake I have read claims that Osanyin will answer any question you ask it, my question is why are people who know about Osayin not using to solve medical problems like Cancer, HIV, Ebola e.t.c. What is stopping them?

You know a bit about Yourba? Osanyin is the God of what?

Some Babalawo have it in their shrine. Go and ask it some questions? Or do I look like Osanyin?

plaetton:
Thank you.

Since I know you are very passionate about physics and quantum mechanism, this link http://www.tony5m17h.net/VodouFA.html explain in details about Ifa and quatum science.

I hope you will enjoy reading it.

kevoh:
Ten pages of back and forth, too long man. I don't have the luxury of time. I did read the last page though and saw something about deleted videos . Could you be kind to share them again, I'm open to learning. Maybe, I might find it interesting who knows

After watching this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anMEv923HRU

Ask from your locality what Osanyin is. Seek it and interrogate the talking doll Knight of atheism is scared of.


When you done with this, you can talk about next thing

Plaetton


Here is a link that would show you the complexity of Ifa and how to would gear us into another world power if it is fully studied and utilized.

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity/1

the thread is full of interesting points and enlightenment

Pr0ton:
There is nothing worth calling scam in his challenge.. The bottom line is: he challenges the paranormal, and no one has been able to prove it. Only when someone beats down his challenge, and he refuses to let the money out is when the room of scam can be opened. All the talk that he is "distracting researchers of the paranormal" are just the result of obvious jealousy and a find-an-out bullshits!

type James Randi scam on google. Lot of result for you there.


Meanwhile, I have posted a challenge link for you on this thread. We are ready for you to receive the challenge

plaetton:
I do subscribe to buddhist philosophy.
My problem with African spirituality is that, like others, there are too many false Twists to the point that it becomes an endless series of meaningless rituals designed to evoke mystery and fear and foreboding, rather than any form of enlightenment.

Actuallyyou have not check out Ifa.

If you are looking for pure enlightenment, Ifa have it all.

davien:
Very funny.....I'm not a hatetheist I'm an atheist!

Then you are a noisemaker.

Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.

kevoh:
Sponsor you, Lol. You can keep the earnings I don't need it.

do you think it all about accpeting the challenge here? Mehn the process to undergo before application is accepted na ya wa


Then you are wasting your time asking me to pick some fraud challenge

This right here is in your backyard. https://www.nairaland.com/1510778/all-atheists-once-all

Atheist since only the gods know when have been running away from it.

The Almighty Chicken-little Knight of atheism 1 of nairaland ran away.

So can you save the face today?

Pr0ton:
Scam? Because "over a thousand people have applied to take the challenge, but none have yet been successful"?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

a simple google search expose this scam of a thing.

http://newsvoice.se/2010/05/02/james-randi-and-his-one-million-dollar-challenge-fraud/

plaetton:
I want mocking vodu as a religion or philosophy.
I was mocking the idea of casting magical spells to deal to Deal with real life existential problems.
This is where false Twists are added to simple truths.

Like Sam Harris on buddhism, he sees it as a secular system of psycho-spiritual self-improvement and not mystical practises.

Why does lot of atheist refused to follow this path?

Why do you see everything in Afrcian spirituality wrong and mytical?

kevoh:
The only truth I want is you taking the Randi Challenge. Nothing more

Ghostofsparta here in Nairaland has written them and nothing good has come out of it,

we are winning money, not so? Sponsor me na.

I will give you everything earned

Weah96:
Who do you think is keeping the native doctor business afloat? Atheists? It's a waste of cash.

The people who go there already believe in the power of human and animal sacrifices.

which business are native doctor doing?