₦airaland Forum

waternogeteneny:
[size=18pt]Buhari show us ur certificate[/size]

stale

Rapmoney:
What is heaven? Where is it located?

Heaven is the land of fairies and it is located in your mendula

lastmessenger:
In that case you are already married. Why don't you start making babies with your wife( girlfriend)

Who told you I dont have baby?

I have folykazeII already. . . .

lokito:
Guy if u dey yearn stop saying 'we'. You're on ur own. I wan go heaven o

Am I stopping you from going to heaven?

The mind of the youth of this days is clouded with fantasy. This is what I always tell my gal. You could believe in all those 'karimi' shiiiit but senses of things should not be lost.

Who told you guys that marriage is all about going to altar and mosque or court?

Marriage is bondness, knotting of two opposite se.x together. It is union between man and woman. Marriage is nothing but se.x.

It has nothing to do with ring and costly gown and suit. You are married to person you have sex with. . . . This is the plain fact we always look away from

Aborisha or Isese is a part of life which can neither be forgotten or do away with.

'Ifa se ola', oselu is part of our spirituality. If the city is blessed, the gods shall be praised. If the city is cursed, the gods should be prayed to. Ero epo, ero osa ewa ba wa tun ile yi se.

Sorry sir, Aborisha will never do away with Orisha-bibo. This is our life

There is foolish pentecostal evangelist preaching on a juction very close to my house at around 5am or 6am. He said sinners would burn for eternity; this I hear it everytime. The most foolish thing he said was that fingers only would butn for 200 years with intense pain while other body parts take another centruies. Lying on my bed and hearing this disturbing fallcay, I will just laugh. The only thing that comes to my mind is, if it take 200 years for ordinary finger to burn, no matter what the pain is, I would have adapted to the pain because 24 hours is completed. Come to think of it, as a naija guy, we go don develop our tech in hell and those in boring heaven will rush down and join us.

#putThePartyOnFire.

This is just wow.

Thanks for the voluntary and brilliant design

macof:
No, my comment never gave such impression that dead people still breath.
I said the act of living is synonymous with the act of breathing...and I told u jst as a lifeless thing is lifeless, it doesn't have the ability to breath.

It is death when it have not ability to breathe shey.

Ina yen o ti ku; it means the fire is not dead. Meaning it is alive. So going by your logic, does this mean fire is breathing since it is not dead but alive?

macof:
Aye means life nd Iwalaaye means "to be alive". Where have u heard a Yoruba man saying "Oku si wa laaye" or "Alale wa si wa laaye" = our ancestors are still alive? Jst answer this and let this rest
Yoruba puts a clear distinction between the world of the living and the world of the dead...it never says the dead are living beings.

But they say, ti aba pe oku ni popo alaye ni dahun.

What ever that mean. . .decipher

macof:
The dead are active quite alright but they are DEAD...saying they are still living breathing entities is just too funny

I said they are dead living ancestors. I was just brining in your breath-life logic here.

They are physically dead but alive in the spiritual world.

macof:
What's the basis for Ori Inu being the centre of personality? I think I should even ask u this..What is personality? And wat does it translate to?

Inner self

@OP

The same bible that said wages of sin is death. But lets look around us, animal, fish, birds and plants dies. Are they sinners too?

Did they also eat the forbidden fruit?

macof:
smh I honestly don't know how to make you understand. It's obvious you are adamant...I have more points I could give you but even if an Awo tells u what am saying you will still argue with him


About the argument of the dead still living, I've told u it's a matter of perspective. where some confuse themselves by giving "Life" and "Consciousness" the same meaning, others don't....so you are right, I am right.
Your problem is u the lack the ability to understand my perspective which I've been trying to make you see
I still remember you said the dead are living and "breathing" that's where I had to point ur folly
Do u see where taking consciousness and life as the same thing confused you?

Calm down and read this thing all over again.

Aitete mole, ole moloko. Lol. I be wonn call you adamant but choose not to so as not to appear I am attacking you.

This is what you said:

macof:
Emi means "life force"...the act of living is synonymous with the act of breathing
Only living things breath...so breath is life and life is Emi..don't you think?

And I said our ancestors are alive. So going by your logic, they are breathing.

You exposed my folly; eni mi sigidi ara re lo n mi.

I have told you been alive is breathing according to science while been alive is activeness according to spirituality.


I am not confusing Ori with Emi. I have told you what each represent severally here.

Emi is activating force.

Ori is awareness and reactive force. The centre of personality. It is that thing that create person. You mentioned this yourself. If the body is person, I think you acknowledge that Obatala creates that. But personality belongs to Ori-Inu.

When our people say the deceased should not relent or sleep in the ancestors realm, this is a prove the transited dead ones are not dead really but very much active or alive in the realm they are.

I have cited the case of Aboku soro and other non' living things that are said to die. So what is your prob here?

macof:
Beautiful! Pls give a basic and simple analysis on Iku(death)

Iku biologically is the end of life. While in the spiritual side, Iku is simply a transition point from the physical world to the world of ancestors.

macof:
[and earlier I told u, Emi is the core of our personality that moves on after death ...you disagreed saying it's merely "breath" that gives life to the body
Good you are realizing it's the Emi that continues existing as our ancestors...I thought you would say it's the Ori Inu they possessed that is our ancestors]

It is hard to believe this is coming from you.

Emi is impersonal animating force. It transending to the spiritual world is to animinate Ori-Inu.

Let me nail this whole thing with this sample:

During Oro or consulation of the dead ones. . .Yoruba people would say 'won re pe eleda oku Orun'. Meaning they are consulting the Ori Inu dwelling in the spirit world.

The same Yoruba says Ori eni ni eleda eni. Meaning ones Ori is the creator of person. (where I deduced that Ori is the centre of personality).

So it is glaring here that what they consult when someone is decease is it Eleda living in spiritual realm. . . .and not the Emi.

True, Emi and Ashe works to functioning of Ori-inu. This is what brought the analogy of radio-set and electrical power. Emi is electrical power, Radio set is the body while Ori-Inu is the control station. The frequency is the Ashe that make everything be.

This is simple bro. . .

Oloro or Abokusoro will call on Eleda from the ancestor realm for conversation despite the fact that the person been called in reality is dead. The Eleda simply is Ori. What makes it live in the spiritual realm is Emi.

macof:
First of all, I never said dead people are inactive, I said they are DEAD because they lack LIFE(the principle of breathing)
I told u it depends on if you consider "life" and "consciousness" to be the same thing...because I don't so as I understand your idea, I don't like confusing myself and confusing people so I stick to clear understanding of terminologies

Life is activeness. Is your phone not alive? Is it breathing? Yoruba people will say Ile o kin ku. Meaning earth will never die; is earth a living thing? When you say a cutlass is dead in yoruba, does that mean cutlass is alive and breathing?

Life is activness

Consciousness is awareness and reaction.

Simple like APC.

macof:
Secondly, In ancient times we didn't separate science from spirituality, they were one and the same. So a Man who had been taken by Iku was said to be an Oku(dead body, lifeless) or Alaisi(non-existent, absent one) while a Man yet taken by death is said to be Elemi(one who has a soul) Araaye(one who is part of life)
being alive is much more than being active..
Yoruba call rock "Okuta" Oku-ita meaning lifeless form outside

You are the one turning the table around bro.

When Yoruba say the earth wont die, does that mean earth is alive?

Why do you think people are deny of pronouncing Oba is dead (ku)?

Why do they do they recant this statement in local burial ceremony 'Ti o ba dele ki o so runre, ki o majeko, ki o ma je kounko, oun wa n ba je lorun ni ko je. Baba ti o ba ti de orun ki o ma sun o.'

OR

'Baba tetede, ajo o re yin, ranti ki o weyin wo'

Can a dead corpse eat, sleep, go on journey or see?

These saying is showing that the dead ones are not really dead but have continully living in another realm where they eat, see sleep and go around in journey.

macof:
Can you give a Yoruba saying that projects the idea that dead people are still "living and breathing" like you said in your previous post

You have examples up there. . .

If I may ask, what is adiye irana meant for?

Where are is the lifeless corpse travelling to? Ogun is the road clearer and Adiye is one of it food. Why do you think people are not allowed to eat from this chicken?


Death in yoruba is not end of life, it is a transition from one existence to another. A prof called this journey an abyss trasition. . . .because it is very hard to achieve Iwa pele. The very reason we say we want Ire owo, ire omo ati aiku pari Iwa. When one achieve this Iwa pele, the person become Imole.

Yoruba people do not believe in death but only in trasition.

iamord:
I can see you are totally lost as to what I have been saying.. where did I ever state pertaining to underdevelopment witchcraft and under development??

You said witches are not delopment minded. . . . .

And you gareed wiccans are good, maybe after meeting one.

Wiccas are witches. You have not meet african witch before. So how do you know they are not develop minded?

Secondly, how are they wicked? Is it because you are not one?

iamord:
sigh! I made a contribution to what u were saying.. now u saying a whole different thing . na wa o

Why would you blame underdevelopment on witch and wizard?

iamord:
u act like u don't know what am talking about.. the African witches are not development minded but resort to control and evil. where r u from?

Are we generally developed, think outsode witch now pls

iamord:
I have also met Wicca's .. the ones am talking about about the African black witches. they are usually very wicked .don't get me wrong.

Wicked. How pls?

iamord:
well true but they use the power acquired negatively

Na wa for this bros o. Witches offend you?

Wiccas are very good people. I have met some of them online ones. As for the tradition witches, I can not rule out if what they are doing is good or not.

macof:
Lmao @bold...you are going too extreme like I have told u
This will just be going back and forth (but if you still want, I'll answer all ur questions)
Just speak with a Babalawo about what I told u
Emi is so much more than you think

have u started on the Greek philosophy of psyche like I advised you?

Na wa o. . . .

The Yoruba people would say; Emi oku ti re koja. Meaning the life force of the corpse has transended to other realm.

If our ancestors live in the spirit, world. . .we both know the spirit world is where Emi moved to. What is it purpose there?

Also, are the dead ancestors dead and inactive in the spirit world?

Why are the ancestors called dead living ones?

If they are alive, should we assume our spiritual philosophy is wrong because thay aint scientifical?


Answer these questions man.

edogho:
I didn't get d notification for this mention.
resurrection has to do with bringing back to life what is already dead. if I think a soul is d spirit and flesh and that the soul can die, then I'm trying to say that it will be resurrected when d time comes.

This is contradictory bro.

Anything that resurrect must have died. Death comes through killing or termination. But Jesus said in that verse that the soul he is reffering to cannot be killed or terminated.

So how can something that is ending start all over?

edogho:
pls don't mistaken life in d bible heaven with life in d promised new earth. just as apostle Paul puts it, those going to heaven must follow d pattern d Christ's resurrection took. died fleshy but resurrected a spirit. those in d promised new earth will not go through same process (remember d Christ even said some will not die but will be alive when all the changes take place I.e when he comes).

They would not die but transform. What are they transfrming to?

When the body is destroyed and the spirit has returned to God, what would the people in new earh embody?

edogho:
one thing, I av no idea what OBE is..

well done, u got me thinking... one of d reasons I enjoy ur posts

Thanks. I always love to learn, think and reason. People like you made that happens.

macof:
depends if you consider "life" and "consciousness" as the same thing
I don't, I see life as restricted to animate beings that can express subjectivity and emotions
there's no Yoruba idea suggesting that rocks are such ...tho as a Yoruba I know rocks are conscious but nt to the extent you taking it...you are going too extreme egbon

You should not try to bring science into spirituality. . .hence you will go into the wrong direction.

Our ancestors are not living anymore. They are dead, not alive and not sentient again. They aint breathing so they are lifeless. This is biology.

But in spirituality, they are very much alive, breathing and continuing living in the spirit world.

Remember their spirit can be invoke, communicated with and prayed to. It is believe they mingle with Orisha, take sacrifice, feel for our existence and say prayer on our behalf to Orisha. They are on a journey to becoming Orisha. . . .Eni sonu ati eni ti o ku, ojo kan ni won ma pade. Where would dead person meet the lost one? And when they are not animinated, what power them in the spirit world? Are they not alive there too? Do you think they take in Oxygen like you do?

macof:
Am sure its all in the translation factor that differs among people..I understand ur opinion but go back and ask any Babalawo if Rocks have feelings and will

There is nothing like feelings and will. We only have vibrations and it is applicable to rocks too.

macof:
As long as only living breathing beings express sentience due to that life force, I maintain that life force is responsible for personality

Electricity power radio and make everything in it function. That does not make electricity a radio frequency receptor.

Emi is an impersonal force which animinate beings.

macof:
Maybe u are yet to realize the flaw of ur argument but
1. If Ori is the primal core of our personality, then you are suggesting rocks have cognition and emotions...as Yoruba say Everything including rocks have their Ori
Only Man and animal have life force according to Ifa, yet all things have consciousness in Eledumare

Everything is active and alive. . . .vibrating.

macof:
2. If Ori is our primal personality, then what use is the role of guardian that the same ori plays in our life? Can a blind person guide himself through the edge of a bridge? Or you don't know Ori guides our personality?

Have you ever asked this; do I ever exist?

You are like a radioset, what speaks in you is far away in the station.

The Yoruba say; Ori Inu mi ma ba ti o de mi je. . . .

This shows Ori Inu guide the outer Head through it path to Ire. Ori Inu cannot accomplish Ire without the help of Aya and Ese. Aya, Ese and Ori is the physical component of person, the Original self is in.

So Ori Inu guides that of Inu.

macof:
3. If Ori is what you say it is then it is Ori that reincarnates. that means reincarnation comes with the same destiny, the same purpose in life, the same fortune...everything the same.

Reincarnation is for attainment of Iwa-pele

macof:
4. Before coming to life, Ifa says we go to Ajala to pick our Ori..if Ori is the primal personality then what is the "we" that goes to ajala before we even acquire an Ori?

The lifefull moulded person. It is purposeless. And robotic but still alive.

macof:
5. before every life we pick an Ori from Ajala's house, if the Ori is our only real spiritual substance then reincarnation has no place in Ifa, but we know that's not true, Ifa is very serious about reincarnation. So tell me how come Ifa says each ori to each new life

Ifa did not say another Ori for Ashehinwaye.

Reincarnation is not new life. . .it is simply recycling of consciousness.

macof:
Don't take "emi" for it's literal meaning alone, take it for the concept and relationship with all living beings

I'll like you to read up on Greek philosophy if Yoruba philosophy isn't quite clear to you
*Psyche(Anima in Latin)

Emi is breathe. It power everything in the body including the functioning of consciousness.

If you agree consciousness is present in everything, what power them?

iamord:
it's through Obe and Astral travel that u will know the full composition of a soul. And it's not only affiliated to witches and black magic.. But as enlightened people,

witches and those who practice black magic are enlightened people.

This is good.

The people have responded to Fayose death which.

Macof.

You can download this file if you really need to know much about Ori as soul and other composition of man.

http://www.njas.helsinki.fi/pdf-files/vol16num2/ademuleya.pdf

macof:
Emi means "life force"...the act of living is synonymous with the act of breathing
Only living things breath...so breath is life and life is Emi..don't you think?
Many don't know that it's two spirts in Man...the Life force(Soul) and the "spirit of God" in Man
this life force is also our sentience, which provides us with subjectivity and emotions that mold our personality...what then is the "self" you speak if not the primal force of our personality?

In Yoruba, everything is alive.

Life is more or less activness.. . . . You cannot pin it down to biology only.

Life force is Emi and not soul. Breathe has nothing to do with personality.

macof:
Wats your idea of self? for me it's our Personality which is from the soul.
unless u think the soul isn't the life giving force

Wrong. . .Emi is the life giving force.

Ori is the centre of self and individual personality. Personality is from Ori. If you tend to call that soul then it mean Ori is soul.

macof:
No, Ori inu translated as the Ori inside, or the head within(the body), or the consciousness inside, or the deeper mind...one of my posts above (I hope you read it) stated that the deeper mind is the "spirit of God" in popular ideas like christianity
This is different from Soul. Ori Inu, or simply Ori is the direct link of The Spirit of the universe(Eledumare) in Man. Ori is the fuel to our existence in any form we find ourselves[see my comment above]...Infact Ori is what establishes us as whatever form we find ourselves...why do you think Yoruba say "Ori mi, eleda mi" -Ori ni Eleda eniyan"
In Eji-ogbe, Ori was first venerated as the one who set up the Orisha in their various Towns and patron cities
Further in Ifa Orunmila taught that Ori creates us in where we find ourselves and the conditions we find ourselves...I think this was Otura-ogbe
Ori exists in everything unlike soul that only exists in sentient beings(Man and Animal)
ori inu is completely different from soul

Bro, you are getting so many things wrong here. I dont know if you could put more light on this topic, you could be right. But from the way I perceive things, you err big time.

Ori is the samething as Ori Inu. It is termed Ori Inu so as to differentiate it from Ori (Head). Ori or Ori Inu is the soul of a person.

In Yoruba thought, a person is made up of ara (body), emi (life giving force) and Ori (Spiritual head). Ara (body) refers to the tangible that make a person both externally and internally such as the brain, kidney, intestine, hearth etc. and not just the body frame which houses other constitutes of a person. Emi (life giving force), the Yoruba believe, is an immaterial force that provides the animating force or energy without which a person cannot be said to be living talkless of conscious. It is closely associated with breathe and the whole mechanism of breathing. It is the life giving force of a person; its presence or absence in a person make the difference between life and death. The third component, Ori is the central concept of human personality. It represent person's personality and represent human destiny. The Yoruba are said to believe that the personality of each individual is encoded in Ori. Ori is determines the life course and personality of it possessor on earth. It also details each individual destiny. Ori which is otherwise called Ori-Inu (inner head) i responsiblr for actuality and worth of man in the phyisical world. It is the eseence of man which rules, control and guides the life and activities of the person. It is the soul, having it physical symbolisation as the physical head.

The Ori Ita (outer head) is a representation of the inner head. This is how we came about Ita and Inu. Ori is the inner self, the soul moulded by Ajala. Emi is from Olodumare while Ara is from Orisanla.

Adding, Ori exist in everything. . .soul doesnt have anything to do with sentience. Some religion philosophy hold that only human being have soul. This is different from Yoruba thought that sees souls in everything. They see it as Ori, the inner self. Some world religion like jainism, hinduism and othe form of aninism also share this believe. Soul is the self, inner person and the 'I' that inhabit and the body and act through it.

Do you know why babalawo touch one Ori with Ikin during consultation? It is because the physical head represent the inner self which is the original and the soul.

The summarize verything I have there, Ori is the soul, Emi is the breathe while Ara is the body.

edogho:
Greetings bro,

if u say EMI is d breath or life giving force then I'll tell macof not to call d SELF that I speak of an EMI. if u decide to call it a soul, well, from ur questions, are u suggesting man has two souls? one d flesh and d othet one u say man can't kill?
don't say I'm responding with a question o (tho it seems so ) it's somehow sha...

one thing I know is, all I've been hearing about souls and spirits ain't true, one of d many reasons is "d witches leave their bodies to attend some meetings somewhere talk".

I av my reasons

Emi simply is breathe or life force. It has nothing to do with Soul.

I am not arguing that there is two souls in person. My argument is, soul is a separate entity. It is more or less the inner self, personality and the 'I'. Soul is the centre of who we are.

I understand where you are coming from when you mentioned that soul is spirit and flesh. And the teaching of soul and spirit which you are trying to point at is more or less JW doctrine. So I am making you see that soul is a separate enity which prompted Jesus statement; that is a separate entity which cant be killed.

In the new earth, what is that thing that would live forever when flesh has been destroyed? Answer to this should tell you that there is something distinct from what you insuliate soul is. In philosophy, it is simply the inner self.


Lastly, you mention that you dont believe witches live there body. Do you ackownledge that there is something called OUT OF THE BODY EXPERIENCE, Astral Projection and Soul Travellin?

OBE is more scientifical but the other ones are more spritual.

Also, do you believe one would live in the new earth when the flesh has been destroyed?

So why would you acknowledge OBE, believe in ressurection in the new kingdom and choose to disbelieve in witch going out of the body?

edogho:
ehen Folykaze, zis ur questions, na as e be e get o, thanks for ur time.

I'm one of those who believes d mind assigns dimensions.... I mean that anyone can believe in anything and be comfortable with it. it's how d mind works(I'll like some tutorials on many other workings of d mind sha, I'm not sure what I'm searching on dat topic yet, philfearon dey hoard info)

now concerning d topic, I go with the notion that a soul is made up of both spirit and flesh. maybe, just maybe what u are referring to (i.e d one u said D CHRIST was talking about)is what I call d SELF and finally macof now calls it EMI

Good evening dude.

Since you have refused to provide answers to my questions, I dont know how we could get pass through this matrix.

The self is not Emi. Emi simply mean breathe or life given force.

Is it wrong to call the self soul?

macof:
^^^ the soul is the real self of Man...the breath of life, the Emi
Man as a living soul doesn't mean Man(in flesh) is a soul, it refers to the "self" within the flesh..."living" describes the act of existing in this earthly plain

I hope this clears it up

Is this soul you are reffering to is what the yoruba call Ori inu?

Sambo is known to be a figure head.

edogho:
summon d gods that they do appear... I see ur work. buh that segmentation of man isn't exactly correct. its just soul and spirit, nothing more. remember man became a living soul and without d breath/spirit, he's just ordinary flesh/soul without life. just as d book Mr Noah and d seven survivors of the flood- eight souls !!!

if d section is dulling, spice it up na... buh u no lie sha

Good evening man. I share with you the believe that soul is nothing but a living being.

But if you look at this argument closely, you will realise that it is driving through christian idea of soul and it impart in life and death. The bible is not very clear on what soul really is.

Firstly, Soul is a living being according to Gen 2:7.

Secondly, Soul is a separate being which made up man according to Matt 10:28.

The point here is that there is a soul that is killable but not by man who can also kill a soul (living being). We both know that soul (living being) is killable, but what about the one mentioned in Matt by Jesus?

Apostle paul thought about soul and body can be found in 2 Cor 5:1. . . .we are made to understand that this bodily vessel or the earthly tent will be destroyed. Also in 2 Cor 5:6, we further learnt that we (this is the that thing that dwell in the body) lives in flesh and also able to live in home with God. What is this entity that live in flesh and in God?

This entity have the chance of living forever outside the body. In Matt, we learnt it is soul. So going by the impression that soul is living being, what then is the soul that live on in the new earth withou the flesh called?

So to make things clearer, I will like to ask you this questions:

1. We both know that the flesh will return back to dust. There is no where in the bible it is stated that this dust will come back as flesh. So in the new earth, paradise or heaven of which we are told that man would continue to live forever, will man be of the soul dwelling in the vessle called flesh or it will be soul alone?

2a. If soul would live forever alone without body, does this not prove that soul is a different entity?


2b. Man, a living being is made up of spirit and flesh. (some believe it is a spirit, soul and body). Which ever way in the new earth, there wont be bag of flesh as it would have returned to the dust never to come back again. So we will be left with spirit living as a being. What would you call this spirit?

Does this not suggest that the spirit or soul is another entity?

This is scary. If this is truth, this mad man called fayose should rot in jail.

Where are the student activist when you need them the most? They should sack the whole governor office and turn the whole place into a cloud of flame.