₦airaland Forum

LoJ:
I don't get you.

You want to become a mathematician without going through a math training? Any serious spiritual path will require that you thread the path, meaning walk the walk.

There is not much you can truly learn in esotérica by mere reading and listening. You want to walk the walk and see for yourself. Experience is the key to true knowledge.

There are stages in life. Maybe when I get pass reading and listening, I will take the bold step unto the next stage.

gensteejay:
Yes, too many problems. That's why, on leaving religion sometime ago, I embraced irreligion and the art of seeking knowledge with research -- not atheism. Perhaps Nl Atheists can shed more light on these problems.

They have tried but can't

I personally would have love to explore tradition spirituality through Orisha but I will not find much info without been initiated into the circle. Same applies to grail message and enkancar and the likes.

gensteejay:
OtemAtum maintains that Ifa was a man, specifically a seer (or a philosopher, not sure about that). Have you read his account about Ifa in the book of universal history, inspired by Atum (one of the gods of Ancient Egypt) he is presenting compiling?

I dont know about what he said. The Ifa system was brought by Orunmila (God of wisdom in Yoruba).

gensteejay:
I fully agree with your submission, especially this assertion, "Spirituality gave birth to modern science." Using words like "spirituality", "ifa", and the likes when discussing with atheists could lead to a series of inconclusive arguments with atheists, and when I am not in the mood for debates, I tend to avoid such terms.

It is very important to talk about those words and understand the terminologies before diving into any discussion. Without that, we go round in an endless circle as we have seen in many cases in the past.

It also makes me wonder what atheism is focused on. Is it the existence of God? God in what sense, what concept, what understanding?

Is their understanding limited to Abrahamic religion or encompasses all non theistic and philosophical religion like Jainism.

Do atheists view of God limited to theistic concept of God or goes beyond/into pantheism, deism, ignotheism, and other concepts?

How does it view God in the sense of African spirituality?

Too many problems

gensteejay:
What is Ifa to you?

Ifa is a body of knowledge, wisdom and understanding of the universe. It holds the secrets, hidden knowledge about the world, nature and society, people and person.

Permit me OP to contribute to this beautiful thread.

Firstly, I will like to define Religion as a set of belief in transcending being mostly called God and/or Mind, consciousness, light, truth or infinity.

The major problem with atheism and theism is not the 'believe/denial of existence of God' but what God really is.

Human being from inception always seek for the TRUTH. Truth in this context mean conformity with external realities. The yearn for knowing 'Truth' is what brought what we refer to as Spirituality.

Spirituality is simply the search for the truth. The word spirit mean 'essence', that which is Real, that which is actually is. In this course, Man has observed that Truth is not only unchanging within some time but it is beyond time. This is why Ifa says 'bi oni ti ri ola o ri bẹẹ, ni mu babaláwo dafa ni ororun (the reality now is not same as next moment which is the reason Babalawo divines everytime).

For the fact, upon spirituality is what religion, philosophy, science and every subject that seek about reality is founded on.

Spirituality gave birth to modern science. In all cultures across the world, science is centred on observation of the physical world, the reality as defined by the mind. Spirituality focus primarily on the observation of the physical world, and world beyond; the reality as defined by understanding essence of the mind.

Sceince also seek the Truth. However, it is limited to what is detectable. In scientific sense, what I cannot see does not exist. See in that context mean detectable by our senses, observable and measurable. Spirituality rather seek for truth beyond time or 'eye'. It query the authenticity of the sight if it is an illusion and focus more on mind, consciousness and experience.

So, religion came because those who are lazy to experience truth or reality by themselves are subjected to accept thought and experiences of others who took their time to seek for truth.

In a simple term, religion is the search for truth through others experiences. Others here are the prophets, saints, pastors or imams.

While spirituality doesn't have a set or rules, a so called Saint would deploy rules that will guide his believers on how to reach what they are looking for; truth.

The question we will set aside for another day, Is TRUTH objective or subjective

The question at hand, should religion be scrapped?

Simple and straight answer, NO.

Even when there are alot of dogma and dangerous form of indoctrination and rituals in religion, there are substances of TRUTH in it too. Therefore, we should rather focus more on separating the dogma from reality.

Should we scrap Buddhism and let it philosophy die because it is a religion? Should we scrap Yoga with it health benefit because it is religion practice?

Ifa encompasses philosophy, medicine, history, poem, music, art, and general science. Should we scrap it because it also entails some form of religion?

Before someone will come out and say orthodox medicine are pure science, my experience have convinced me not to accept those claims. Aside herbs which are found in Ifa to treat a particular ailment, there are some practises that are beneficiary to our health and society which ain't scientific.

A quick example. My second child has a hole in his head. It is called Ilari or oka in Yoruba. We used silverbird for my first son butit doesn't work for my second child. When we travelled home last week, my wife granny who happens to be Osun worshipper observed the child and prescribed a solution for us. She instructed us to get water from the canoe. I travelled to another villa in Ogun to get the water. And it the hole closed up after using the solution in 2 days.

The granny source of this knowledge is spirituality. She knows these things from the so called nonsense practices she is into. What is the scientific explanation to water in canoe healing hole in the skull? I don't know but we should know before dismissing everything.

Maybe because of how we are brought up in Yoruba land. I don't have problem with religion or desire to ses it scrapped. It is the way through which people seek truth. Even when we don't agree in many things, there are still some truth in their experience which shouldn't be thrown away.

Thanks

MuttleyLaff:
If you do some research of your own you will find the proof of this in the bible

There is none. Bible do not keep record of when Soul was created. Why can't you just show me.

MuttleyLaff:
I had previously already said that, it is ruach, the Spirit from God, that keeps the human body animated. I also typed that, when the spirit, as in the breath, returns back to God, the body slumps and the soul goes into comatose. It is similar to a TV animated cartoon moving character reverting to a one dimensional unanimated, as in no more moving cartoon strip character on a comic book or magazine paper.

No dispute except that the soul goes into comatose.

The bible specifically states that when a man dies, the body return back to the earth while the spirit returns to God. There is no mention of soul going into comatose.

MuttleyLaff:
You still havent been able to tell the distinction between a living soul and quickening spirit because you dont really know what the difference is

The different versions of 1 cor 14:45 have done the job.

In a verse, it was explained that living soul is living individual (animated person). And quickening spirit is the animating force.

MuttleyLaff:
Dont be daft. What are friends for, you'll probably do same for me, if shoe was on the other foot

Make it a regularly habit though brushing up the bible, if not you'll get truth decay

Punchline. Wow.

MuttleyLaff:
"Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me."
- Psalm 51:10

"I pray that God, who gives peace, will make you completely holy. And may your spirit, soul and body be kept healthy and faultless until our Lord Jesus Christ returns."
- 1 Thessalonians 5:23

I will study on this verse 1 Thess 5:23 before I provide any response. Spare me sonetimes.

MuttleyLaff:
FOLY, o ye of little faith. As with the Psalm 51:10 verse, the heart is linked with the mind, which is part of the soul

This is what I call eisegesis.

MuttleyLaff:
Dont get distracted and please dont start deflecting from matter on hand

Ok

MuttleyLaff:
You will say this, wont you, besides whats the point in me wasting gun powder, huh?

Firing blank bro. There is no projectile, not even one in your riffle. That is why we ain't hitting the target.

Target is soul been a distinct entity

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s3/images/cosmos.jpg[/img]
You mean, as in, like that Ori thing, in the top right corner of above screenshot capture grab, huh?

Yep.

It is the divine guardian.

MuttleyLaff:
If you say so

It is a good thing they do, as consciousness works in different and diverse ways.
The sea hasnt got a "brain" but it is conscious enough to know when to come to shore and recede?
How is a seed buried in the soil, conscious to know how to die and later spring back to life sprouting, hmm?
Geologists are known to stubbornly maintain that stones are living organisms and so stones like diamond breathe
The Religion forum is conscious of what you type and so with the help of your browser is able to render the content(s) of your typing

Brain is not necessarily always physical, it can be abstract as well. Are you aware that your stomach has a brain, hmm?

Please shed more light.

Let us start by telling us what you understand by 'consciousness'

What do yiu mean stomach has a brain?

How is stone a biological entity?

The sea conscious, how?

Explain pls

MuttleyLaff:
Just made my point, about an example or case with a limiting factor, that there are areas of limitation in Yoruba cosmos, like this love thing for example.

There might be limitations, not sure. What I know is Yoruba spirituality focus on individual and divinity, and the connection/interrelation between them.

MuttleyLaff:
You are just as me, I just love the philosophy too, as it helps me know my people and myself better and know more about my cultural heritage, belief and worldview.

Are you a Yoruba? I been think say you be Igbo. Na wa o

XxSabrinaxX:
A subscription to bangbros isn't the same thing as paying for sex.

Its paying to wànk,... which is sad really when there are websites that stream porn for free. Or better still rump with your wife

Just pointing this out....

self-service is still sex (with myself)

Bangbros provides videos in high dimensions and from professional adult actors/actress. Xvideos is full of bad quality and not professionally shot videos.

And the live stream on bb. Jesus!!!

You havent apologize for breaking my heart, you are ignored

MuttleyLaff:
Of course, having sex has become overrated since it isnt anymore done properly. Being promiscuous and/or unprincipled in sexual matters is not a virtue, neither is feeling or revealing an overt sexual interest or desire for anyone, on in here or elsewhere, other than your life long partner or yourself

Keep your sermon till Sunday.

Sex is life. Thank you

LordReed:
LoL! This from the hoŕny donderhead that all but said he wants to fuçk XxSabrinaxX. Confirmed dolt. LMFAO!

She wasn't offended at my joke. But I was serious. You probably don't know how it feels when your hoe calls your name repeatedly esp when you want to to come.

If I want sex, I pay for it. My subscription on bangbros would last me for good 2yrs.
Im an adult,at liberty to throw advances.

Wait till you reach 18, I go give you continental babes... Chinese are good with whining

MuttleyLaff:
You are using the expression of facts wrongly FOLY because the "soul" was created along with the "body", it is the "spirit", (i.e. ruach or breadth of God) correctly that was injected into the moulded body of Adam, as in, via Adam's nostril

There was no mentioned of the embolden in the scripture. Could it be I couldn't find it in my own version of genesis?

MuttleyLaff:
Be careful what you wish for, you know I could stuff you up until you choke on them, verses that are relevant and back up this.

"For the word of God is living and active.
Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow.
It judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart."
- Hebrews 4:12

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
- 1 Corinthians 15:45

Do you understand the difference and meaning of 1 Corinthians 15:45's above "living soul" and "quickening spirit" huh?

Since 1 cor 15:45 is the beam light on this subject, permit me to deploy the tactic I used in the past that helped me understand bible more better.

1cor 14:45 in other versions

CSB So it is written, The first man Adam became a living being ; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

CJB In fact, the Tanakh says so: Adam, the first man, became a living human being; but the last “Adam” has become a life-giving Spirit.

CEV The first man was named Adam, and the Scriptures tell us that he was a living person. But Jesus, who may be called the last Adam, is a life-giving spirit.

AMPC Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life].

AMP So it is written [in Scripture], “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL (an individual);” the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving spirit [restoring the dead to life].

If you noticed carefully, the verses describe soul as Individual, personality, and living being. While the spirit is describe as the animating force.

The difference is not far fetched as the verse in those versions have explained it.

Soul in that contest is a living person, individual or human.

Spirit is the animating force.

And that applies to all the bible verses you quote.

MuttleyLaff:
Ezekiel, and church by the wa, that is ekklesia, is organic and not a physical structure or building. You can disagree as long as you like, it doesnt change the facts.

Thanks for the isipaya. He don tay I open bible

MuttleyLaff:
"And you should not be afraid of those killing the body but not being able to kill the soul.
Indeed rather you should fear the One being able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."
- Matthew 10:28

Asides Matthew 10:28 above, can you now appreciate me earlier saying, the Soul is the most important existence of Man and that is why the battle is and always has been about or over the Soul. All attacks, are ultimately targeted at and/or for the Soul.
FOLY, the prophet was carried away by the Spirit of the LORD to a valley filled with bones, all this was in a state of vision

Souls and spirit even though they are not the same can be used interchangeably.

Since body is mentioned, spirit was replaced by soul. I would like to see where body, soul and spirit is mentioned separately in same verse

MuttleyLaff:
You're asking because yo know its all true, isnt it?

You are sounding like a member of the Christian cult. Thought you were a catholic or a mainstream christo

MuttleyLaff:
Wrong, loadsa bible backing more than you'd ever imagine

None given yet

MuttleyLaff:
Yes, gain experience on God's terms and way or gain it our terms and way. Man chose the latter and the rest is obviously now history

Yoruba spirituality holds that one chooses his/her Ori. Akunleyan

MuttleyLaff:
Consciousness is part of the mind. We are conscious because we have minds. What comes out of the heart and mind is processed in the brain inconjunction with the soul, influenced by either the body or spirit. The faculties of the Soul comprises of the Mind (i.e. consciousness and sub consciousness) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions

Maybe when I have more insight on how consciousness works, I will discuss more on this.

Do you know that Yoruba people believe everything including the inanimate objects like stone or water are conscious? If they are, they don't have brain. So how does their consciousness work?

I will appreciate your view on this

MuttleyLaff:
Yes oo, as Earth is a market place and school, whilst experience is the hardest kind of teacher of all. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward.

On the sideline, wanted to point out that interestingly, the Greeks understood love to be of almost seven types of it. I put it at eight. Was wondering what love is in, how many is it etcetera in Yoruba cosmos

Love, I dont think there are.


Please note that I am not an authority on Yoruba spirituality. Not even an Awo. I just love the philosophy as it helps me know my people and know more about my cultural heritage, belief and worldview. This is the reason I invest more time about knowing it more better. There are some things I can't know without been initiated into Awo.

XxSabrinaxX:
Its touching him . He didn't want to hold back before. The guy don frustrate

The very moment I found you were stealing materials and using it without referencing the author, you have exposed yourself as "fraud".

Took sometimes and ran a plagiarism check after discovering your attempt to shift post and also found some contradictions in your posts.

I respect alot of people on this forum, but from the moment you went stealing intellectual properties to form intellectual prowess, you have lost every bit of respect I have for you.

Give your inputs so that people may learn, not to win an argument where you won't wear any crown or paid a prize.

XxSabrinaxX:
The Oxford dictionary defines supernatural as: "(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature; a supernatural being.

If you'd settle down and pretend to be intelligent for a second, you'll see that i've actually been arguing based on YOUR definition of the word! However, the problem is you lack basic understanding of science & physics for phenomena you do not understand. Hence, your incorrigible abuse of the word. The laws of nature are absolute & immutable. If anything can occur in this universe, it is because the laws of physics allow it. Therefore any event, regardless of how unusual it is, is in fact a "natural" phenomenon. At best, it could just be a suspension of the natural laws. We lack the capacity to understand what is beyond the natural.

Science studies the natural world and creates models that accurately reflects its observations. It cannot investigate the supernatural directly since, by definition, it is beyond the realm of science I.E the natural world. It is not to duty of science to prove a negative! Your argument was always, and will continue to be, DEAD on arrival.

1. The colored statement is stolen from quora.

2. I understand natural science and law of physics. Even when I am not a scientist, I have carefully defined the word 'supernatural' in the first place on this thread as "natural unexplained phenomena." which negates the copied/stolen fallacy in your previous post that defined supernatural as "beyond or transcend nature".

Meanwhile, supernatural does not transcend or beyond nature or natural law, that 'beyond/transcendent definition applies to praeternatural

And for the umpteen time, supernatural doesn't mean an event oppose or violate natural law, it simply mean we do not understand it yet,probably there could be some explanation in the future.

More like in the past, somewhere around 100yrs ago, natural phenomenon like flood, drought, plague of disease and natural disasters were considered as supernaturals until those phenomenon were explainable after which they become a natural events.

3. At the bolded, praeternatural is defined as the event/manifestation that is beyond or transcend nature. Supernatural however is an event/manifestation that is inexplicable by scientific understanding of natural world. The grey area that is debated is if supernatural is "nature" that cannot be explain yet/presently OR beyond nature at can never be explained scientifically.

From the definition in my first post on this thread, I assert that supernatural simply mean natural phenomena which are not explainable yet.

Since findings have shown in the past that supernatural claims are actually natural event in present days, therefore, supernatural would logically mean a natural unexplainable event/manifestation.
Or better put, a natural phenomena that is scientifically inexplicable.

XxSabrinaxX:
Don't be disillusioned, FOLY. I desire NO help! I desire that people see your argument and bite their thumbs with me. I'm not asking for submissions. I bet you weren't expecting me to whack you like this, huh?

Flip the pages of the thread back a little and you'll see how people have been making fun of you. You sound so stupid. If so many people want to tell you you're a dumb piece of shiit, maybe the problem is you!

And the only way of achieving your purpose is by stealing?

And who are these people making fun of me? The ones that were on your side from inception? We do not have objective commenter here dear. Most people posting on this thread are from your cheer group.

XxSabrinaxX:
LOL. I'm cornered?!

Haven't you been reading? You keep claiming the source is
supernatural but you haven't demonstrated how! Simply saying its not natural is not enough!

1. Sound naturally should have a source. I had dismantled Osanyin in the past. All notable source of sound like whistle, audio device or pipe that could allow flow of air cannot be found installed in it. Also, the sound is not from the priest (as priest could stand at a distance away from the Osanyin). That answers your how question and it explains why I concluded the sound is from a supernatural source

2. At the emboldened, it is settled by the definition of supernatural below.
Supernatural typically refers to unexplained or non-natural forces and phenomena.

You are really pathetic dear. You keep repeating not natural is enough when Dictionary defines not natural, non-natural, and unnatural as supernatural.

XxSabrinaxX:
Should i send you an apology letter?

The same "ad hominem" you are accusing me of is what brought me to you on this thread for you were abusing NPComplete, tintingz and LordReed, calling them cowards.

LOL. Ad hominem. How long did it take you to come up with that?

I am not accusing you of ad hominem. I am simply informing you it won't help your cause.

They called for evidence of supernatural, one is staring at their face, asking for inspection, and they couldn't face it headlong. You were only exempted from been tagged a coward because you gave an understandable and acceptable reasons why you couldn't pick the challenge. What was there excuses? They have none which is reason I ignored them.

XxSabrinaxX:
Still a false equivalence in the face of your ongoing argument

Try again

You probably didn't know things are been personified and personification is acceptable out there.

XxSabrinaxX:
Of course. The truth is bitter . NO ONE could pass the challenge even after half a century!

E pain am die

Yawn!!! The challenge is dead. It doesn't worth it. Come with something better.

XxSabrinaxX:
No amount of money can cure conditions like Tay Sachs or EB.

Just because people "worship" money doesn't make it omnipotent. Haven't you met rich men whose lives are miserable? God(s) are limitless in nature. Money has limits.

Can you finally see why i've been calling this line of argument a false equivalence?

1. The colored statement is plagiarized word for word from quora. You are a shameless thief.

2. Omni's (potent, science and presence) attribution are characteristics of a monotheism concept of God alone. According to Wikipedia

Monotheistic religions generally attribute omnipotence to only the deity of their faith. In the monotheistic philosophies of
Abrahamic religions , omnipotence is often listed as one of a deity's characteristics among many, including omniscience , omnipresence , and omnibenevolence .

It is a logical fallacy to posit that money is not God because it does not have omnipotent attribute. Nature worshippers do not attribute the omnis to their object of worship.

Moreso, acknowledging the worth of money means you are worshipping it. The fact that you worship it makes it your God.

3. Worshiping or acknowledging the worth of money does not necessary mean one would be superficially rich. Infact, it is the poor who care much, cherish, hold in high esteem and venerate paper bills. The rich careless. The rich only focus on enjoying life, not making a kill for money.

4. Which God is limitless? Do you even think at all? Even Yahweh which you seem to be tilted toward have His limits. He was the El shad ai, God of the hills. He couldn't win war on the plains. Get a bible and read one instead of posting fallacy around.

The power of a God is limited to its domain. Olokun does not have authority over the desert. Ra does not have authority over darkness. There is limitation, the limitless fallacy was probably cooked from your ass.ss

XxSabrinaxX:
Is that all?

[i]"If AnY eVeNt Is NoT nAtUrAl, It Is SuPeRnAtUrAl!",

Supernatural typically refers to unexplained or non-natural forces and phenomena.

Wiktionary.




I shouldn't have responded to your shameless attempt at stealing. All the contents are fraudulently sourced. And you are a very dishonest person.

You see I look beyond your stolen material and countered your argument. I should have ignored you immediately and let your praise singers live with their foolery. Unless you apologise for plagiarising, you are out rightly ignored.

MuttleyLaff:
It's not like as if, I am revealing any great secret, but Ezekiel 18:20, in the Bible, even attests that the soul that sinneth, it, according to God's rule, shall die

Revealing the Bible verse where God injected 'soul' into the moulded body of Adam or man would be a great service because such doesn't exist base on what i know of.

The verse you quote above has no relevance to the question asked. In fact, the soul in that context is not definite. It could applies to living being, person or individual.

Let me use the passage in book of genesis 2:7, the verse explained that after God breathe into the inanimate craft, it became a living soul. Some translations use the word living being.

That verse above indicates that a 'soul' is an animated person or simply living being. It clearly shows that soul is not a distinctive material.

And when you look at Ecclesiastes 11:5, it reads: As you do not know how spirit comes to the bones in the womb of a woman with a child,...

If there has been an entity called soul, the bible verse above would have mentioned it. However, it pointed out that a foetus is only animated with spirit. When the spirit comes into it, it become a living soul.

Deut 46:18, the verse noted that Leah bores sixteen 'souls' to Jacob. Another translation uses persons in place of soul.

The above proves a soul is a complete animated person.

MuttleyLaff:
It is ruach, the Spirit from God, that keeps the human body animated. When the spirit, as in the breath, returns back to God, the body slumps and the soul goes into comatose. It is similar to a TV animated cartoon reverting to a cartoon strip on a comic book or magazine paper.

I disagree sir.

Remember me the prophet God asked to bring back to life dry bones. Can't remember the name... He don tay I enter church or read anything outside Ecclesiastes and proverb in the bible.

The prophet brought back life into a dry bone. At no time was soul mentioned in the process of resurrection.

MuttleyLaff:
What Makes Man?
Or better still what is man FOLYKAZE?
Man is a spirit being, residing or housed in a Body and possessing a Soul, so Man is made up of Body, Soul (i.e. uses the heart as an outlet) and Spirit.
The Soul has the body and the spirit on each opposite sides of it. In a nutshell, Man essentially, is a spirit being with a soul, housed, encapsulated, and/or wrapped up, in a human being body suit

That is if soul is 'self'

MuttleyLaff:
The spirit and soul have different faculties, and so faculties of the spirit, comprises of Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition, whilst the faculties of the Soul comprises of the Mind (i.e. consciousness and sub consciousness) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions and the Body has 5 faculties of senses, which are, to see via the eyes, hear via the ears, feel via applicable part of the body, smell via the nose and taste via the mouth.

Guy you don join one of these mystic christian churches. Where did you find the above in the bible?

MuttleyLaff:
Mind you FOLYKAZE, the Soul is the most important existence of Man and that is why the battle is and always has been about or over the Soul. All attacks, are ultimately targeted at and for the Soul. Now, the Soul is the first medium key component of Man created by God and Man is tickled and accessed through this same Soul by way of the body and spirit. The Soul, in effective, is the mediator between the body and spirit

The different faculties in the Soul waits, to pick up signals coming from the relevant and/or applicable faculties in the Body and the Spirit. This crucial bit of information FOLYKAZE, is very important to grasp, that the Soul receives from the Body and deposits into the Spirit. Whatever the Body reads or sees via the eyes, hears via the ears, feels via applicable part of the body, smells via the nose and talks or tastes via the mouth is picked up by the Soul and deposited into the Spirit. The Spirit then, upon receiving things from the Soul, has to deal with or process what the Soul has deposited into its laps.

This is why regulation is very important. It is why we ought to control and oversee what the Soul is picking up from or picking up with the senses. If you have to by all means, eat the chicken or fish, then its necessary to know when and how to spit out the bones, or if it's straw to eat, then know when and how to spit out the sticks, alternatively, if it's liquor to drink, and you cant hold it down so you don't throw it up, then know how or when to stay away from the liquor

The devil has no power, except with and in the dark, so I'll advise the curious to distance self from the dark, to save yourself from misery, but if hellbent on dining with the devil, then make sure you've got a long spoon to eat with.

No bible backing

MuttleyLaff:
Yes absolutely, of course, it could and does.
You surely would have noted from the above, that consciousness, which in Yoruba spirituality is ori, is a sub faculty of the Soul, as it's one part of the mind, with the mind itself, being one, out of the 5 main faculties of the Soul

I really can't it explain if consciousness is part of the brain or if it stands alone outside brain.

What I know if that our purpose here is to experience.

Awaye wa na oja ni. Bi aba n'aja tan, a fabo sile.

Meaning we are on earth to trade, after trading, we all return home.

Aragbe laye. We trade to be on earth.

Trade there is to have experience.

MuttleyLaff:
on a sideline, how many types of love, is there, in Yoruba spirituality? Please name or list them

Seriously, I have cut across love as a subject in Ifa. Maybe there are, I don't know. Let me call Pastor Aio and Ogbo ato they may help

tintingz:
Ok.

I don put you in ignore mode tay tay. Want to only take you where Isese appears.

You can now join the league of likers and praise singer like your sweet 16 brother.

XxSabrinaxX:
A LOT

Take your time and jump out of the hole.

What are the difference?

Having a truck loads of words doesn't make it more meaningful than a short and precise statement.

XxSabrinaxX:
It isn't. Go back to my previous posts. Ain't repeating myself

How would anyone repeat an already shattered and shredded points which have long been thrown into the dustbin before you could fly it.

Sis, I have employed three good definitions from different sources. They all kept saying the same thing but you want me to accept your illogical fallacy cooked out of your as.ss

This is another definition of supernatural from wikitionary:

Supernatural typically refers to unexplained or non-natural forces and phenomena.

That makes it fifth definition is at all I am going to add mine.

The fallacy you cropped out of your as.s is dined with misrepresented and misinformed details from Abrahamic worldview.

Life is more than Abrahamic nonsense.

XxSabrinaxX:
LOL. What?

Yes, if you can't provide explanation through natural science, the phenomena simply remains supernatural.

XxSabrinaxX:
Cc. Johnydon

Come, I dey suspect you be troublesome woman. You go fight your neighbours here and there with the way you call attention on yourself.

XxSabrinaxX:
You should delete that app

After you have deleted dictionary.com, Wikipedia.com and wikitionary.com database.


Supernatural typically refers to unexplained or non-natural forces and phenomena.

XxSabrinaxX:
*sigh*

The sad part is i can't agree with you here cos we'll both be wrong!

I'm not even going to repeat myself. Go back to my previous posts.

You are the only one that will take the blow, your cheer group ain't going to save you Ma.

Supernatural typically refers to unexplained or non-natural forces and phenomena.

The force that produce the audio sound is unexplainable, therefore it is from a supernatural source.

You can choke your beyond "energy, time, space and other gaebage" back into your as.s

XxSabrinaxX:
No. What is it YOU don't understand? I've been repeating ad nauseum that when something operates outside natural laws, it doesn't necessarily mean supernatural. In fact, we don't know! It could simply be the suspension of natural laws (not necessarily supernatural) or science we cannot yet understand. If you say its supernatural, then investigation is pointless because we verify facts based on natural laws. Thus, we have no way of verifying if its true or false!

Madam you are cornered, stop beating a dead horse

If you have problem verifying supernaturals, then go and update your science.

XxSabrinaxX:
Man, you're.... Oh god, i'm restraining myself so as not to mock the living daylights out of you

Resort to ad hominem, it won't help your course.

XxSabrinaxX:
OK


It is anecdotal evidence @bold. Anecdotal evidence proves nothing.

This is a non-sequitur fallacy. Even if i accept that Sango had the ability to control lightning, that doesn't make HIM lightning!

Personification.

United States of America is called Uncle Sam
Germany is personified as Germania
Greece is personified as Hellas
Law is personified as Lady Justice
Nature is personified as Mother Nature.


What problem do you have with any of the above?

I have gone to the court and seen time without number when my lawyer friend would try to explain issues with Lady justice. He would tell us the story of how Lady justice is blindfolded, had a sword and a balance scale. All those stories is referring to Justice and fairness. Personification helps to convey a story in human nature.

No issue with that.

Have you been to Yemoja shrine and notice the way the priestess is been praised?

Yeye o
Omi o.

Meaning Oh Mother!
Oh water!

This tells that what they are calling Yemoja is simply representation of water. The mother there speaks about the bountiful of life in water and how the whole living thing depend on it for survival.

Pick up a book that speaks about Sango. Read the praises and you will find that Sango is personification of lightning and thunder.

You should have seek basic knowledge of Sango nature instead of embarrassing yourself here.

XxSabrinaxX:
I was just having fun, FOLY. And you're just killing my vibe

I don't mean to.

Just broaden your view next time. Be open minded to learning new things

XxSabrinaxX:
Bwahahaha! Ee dey pain am

Seriously I didn't read the ton of crap you vomited in your previous post about Randi challenge. Even if it is still on, there is no way we can make it happen. Who go finance trip there? Shey na your sweet 16 praise singer?

XxSabrinaxX:
Another non-sequitur. Mixed up with special pleading.

Answer my questions.

XxSabrinaxX:
I don't worship money, FOLYKAZE. I spend it. It is vital, sure, but that in NO way makes it a GOD to me.

The fact that you acknowledge the worth of money means you are worshipping it and it is your God.

Why ain't you wiping your as.ss with dollar note?

Jesus warned his followers against worshipping two masters. Jehovah and money.

In that context, how do you think people worship money? By simply acknowledging it worth.

Money is the God of new age.... Deal with it.

You can deny it, but won't change the fact.

XxSabrinaxX:
There is nothing remotely supernatural going on here. Money doesn't fall from the sky. Instead it is printed. All these connections you're trying to make aren't necessary. Like Occam said, the simpler explanations are the ones with more basis in reality. When you hold money in your hand, what do you call it? Money! Besides ALL this is still a false equivalence in the face of our ongoing argument!

Your perception of what God is beclouds your intelligence.

God does not necessarily have to come from the sky

You see, money is printed just like a every other paper but it is worthy more than other papers.

Like I said earlier, worthiness, sacredness, authority and reverence is what makes god a god.

Meaning, any object or person that you revere, hold in high esteem (sacred), acknowledge it worth, and perceive to have authority over you is your object of worship and your God.

Worship simply mean acknowledging the worth of someone or something. It doesn't necessarily mean making sacrifices and rituals and forming a religion around it.

Beyoncé recently said Fela Anikulapo is her god. Do you think she meant Fela lives in the sky and have some superficial attributes? Or she hold Fela in a high esteem and see him as authority in afro-pop music?


Below is from wikipedia

Worship is an act of devotion usually directed towards a deity. An act of worship may be performed individually, in an informal or formal group, or by a designated leader . Such acts may involve honoring . [1]

Etymology
The word is derived from the Old English weorþscipe, meaning to venerate "worship, honour shown to an object , [2] which has been etymologised as " worthiness or worth-ship" —to give, at its simplest, worth to something.

You my dear, the facts available from definition and etymological analysis of the word "worship", you are found guilty of worshipping the God of the new age, Money. Even when you are doing it and do not know specifically what you are doing, you are still guilty. There is no ignorance in our law. And you are sentenced to two years imprisonment in Library where you will toil your ass.ss reading and understanding simple terminologies.

I suspect you founded your atheism on Abrahamic religion. When you meet people outside that premise, you will look like a fool to them. And that is what you are showcasing Ma.

XxSabrinaxX:
See above please. Time will not permit me to draw out all the logical fallacies from the mess above.

SMH crying for you, sir!


The babblings of a confused Neanderthal

Do more reading, at least you will know how to backoff esp when you are on the loosing end.

And your attitude. Iwa pele in most important.

XxSabrinaxX:
As you can see i'm going nowhere. I said you will do your penance for your crimes of abuse against logic. Keep cranking out those fallacies and i'll keep exposing them. LOL

Lol. You are exposing your gigantic ignorance.

MuttleyLaff:
Everything you've said is right bar "Sleep no be death o"
The body disintegrates into the sand, as you rightly said, the spirit returns to God again rightly put by you, but the soul, you left out the soul Chief. It's the soul that goes to "sleep", as in being oblivious to all that is happening in the land of the living on earth, but in the "waiting area" pending final settlement

At what point did God created the soul according to the bible?

We only have the body and spirit.

I have a document here by JW. It argues that an animated body is the soul. And that it is a not distinctive entity like body or soul.

The argument is approved by someone verses in the Bible where souls are uses in place of head, or living person or individual

Could soul relate to inner self, Ori in Yoruba spirituality. Note, Ori is consciousness.

MuttleyLaff:
"Anu ati imọ" (i.e. meaning mercy and knowledge).
Jesus too said Lazarus was sleeping and not dead.
Yeah, it is beautiful and I do love philosophy. No wonder the Prof, may her soul rest in perfect peace, said Orunmila is as great, if not greater than the Greek father of philosophy Socrates. I think Orunmila's philosophy is superior to Socrates'

One of the praises of the Orunmila; baba kerekere finu s'ogbon

Sleep no be death o. When one is dead, bible noted that the body decompose and return to earth, while the spirit returns to God. Eru fun eru, iyepe fun yepe.

MuttleyLaff:
Aboru Aboye Abosise. May you be in heaven a full half hour before the devil realises you're dead.

Well there are no heaven (in the sense of Christians), no devil and no death in Yoruba spirituality...

We have Orun, Spiritual realm which contrast with physical realm.

We have no satan, adversary or enemy of God

Death is transition. Ever heard this song, baba o ku, ile lo lo tarara. Meaning baba isn't dead, he went straight home.

Is Yoruba spirituality not beautiful? Don't you just love the philosophy?

LordReed:
I'd rather be a teenager than be an old fart who believes nonsense.

Go and do some reading. That is what you need

MuttleyLaff:
Someone who is regularly getting laid wouldn't behave this way, and be resorting to sexual objectification, saying a certain person's mere mentioning of their moniker identifier, sexually arouses the mentioned moniker ID owner or gives the mentioned moniker ID owner, a feeling of sexual excitement

Lol.

Sup dude?

tintingz:
Sigh, do you even make sense?

I said Deists don't believe in supernatural, I was expecting a meaningful response instead a dumb one.

The uncaused cause, infinite one and other tags there God has transcend time, energy, space nature.

Refer to the definition of supernatural from your madam.

tintingz:
My goodness!

No, let's do it here in Nigeria first before you disgrace your juju people in abroad.

You refused to accept my offer to inspect. You coward have no say

tintingz:
The challenge was on since 1964 and terminated in 2015 when no one was able to successfully demonstrate their juju powers!

Inconsequential. It is a dead challenge. Come with something alive.

tintingz:
Gerrara here mehn.

I wish there's an organization that can finance it in Nigeria, all these juju people yansh should be exposed.

You always wish. How old are you? 16?

You dont make enough money that will enable you to travel?

Please shut up you idiot.

tintingz:
You said there's ritual in science, why not tell us the rituals in science?

You made the claim now prove your claim.

Read the conversation again you idiot.

tintingz:
Yeap, and they have successfully know what causes it and how to treat and avoid them.

Your witch doctors are ignorant and impotent to know the causes of infants regular death in a particular family instead they call it "abiku" a curse. What nonsense.

Have you heard names like Kokumo, Duro, Okuta, Olebo, etc.

These are names that prove abiku issues has been solved.

How would you solve sickle cell?

tintingz:
Why must I come to where your juju people will have all advantages to do anything? My security is not even guarantee when their yansh is open.

Here is the excuse. Swerve abeg

tintingz:
Tell them to come out from their hole instead.

Yawn

tintingz:
Turning a story into metaphor can distort it truth and honesty, people will start interpreting it to suit their fantasies.

Esoteric messages keep info secret.

tintingz:
Jesus proverb story in the Bible is not real but a fiction, he's telling them fictional stories to pass his message. That's a different thing.

You are too dull.

How could you expect proverbial messages to be real literally?

tintingz:
Orun is heaven and sky they are both above, that's how the ancient Yorubas reason. They believe God resides up in the sky or heaven.

Sky is ofurufu dumfvck!!!

tintingz:
We are talking about Olorun not you.

We are both God.

tintingz:
Olofi is the third manifestation of Olorun, it manifestation is the conduit between Olorun and the people on earth(aye).

Olofin mean the owner of law. It is a rank in Ife that belongs to Ooni

tintingz:
Well since Eledumare is same as Olorun, from what I read Olokun is the wife of Olorun which gave birth to Obatala and Odudua. Correct me if I'm wrong.

There is nothing to correct. You read nonsense.

Obatala and Oduduwa gave birth to Yemoja.

Yemoja and Aginju gave birth to Orungan

Orungan had sex with Yemoja which seed are Olokun, Aje, Osoosi, Oya, oko and dada

Yemoja is the simply is water
Olokun is salty water
Osun is fresh water
Oya is water vapour.

Now put the dot together.

tintingz:
No, Olodumare and Yahweh are totally different deities.

For Olofin to be the conduit between Olorun and the people then Olorun still communicate with the people. Wether directly or not, is not the argument.


I know you're not a Christian.

Yawn

tintingz:
Tell me where Alchemy is used in modern chemistry?

Ofcos it's the foundation but not useful.

Don't ask me to tell you. Go and read

tintingz:
How is Pythagoras a manson? Any proof?



Lol

He was in Egypt learning mathematics in a temple.

Is temple a school?

XxSabrinaxX:
SMH

How many fingers am i holding up, FOLYKAZE?

Even if i ignore your disingenous hanky-panky and apply your definition, it still means jackshit!

Know why? Because if something is outside of natural laws, it can't be measured reliably. Which means that any empirical data collected is at best incomplete, rendering it worthless for proving the existence of something. For all we know, what is being observed is part of a completely seperate chain of causality based on laws we are unaware of. What appears as supernatural may in fact simply be natural, we just don't have the ability to determine it as such. Calling it supernatural in that sense is a shameless cop out!

Not to mention that if something doesn't exist within natural law, it is then by definition beyond human comprehension. Even our attempting to measure or observe such a thing would be pointless because it can't be understood by the conventions of rational thought we use to place it within natural law.

Alas, FOLYKAZE, it is still all a big guess. A fantasy! But i know you'll still cry back at me once again cause you can't handle the truth!

FOLY:
my ground stand that there are still some unexplainable natural phenomenon which I call supernatural that exist out there.

The emboldened statement in your and my post. What is the difference?

Before I venture into debating, I have carefully defined my words.

What is your problem for fvck sake?

When you can't provide any scientific explanation for a phenomena, it is supernatural.

Provide it and it turns to natural.

The line that divides (super)natural is scientific explanations.

This is from a dictionary on my phone

Not of the usual; not natural; altered by forces that are not understood fully if at all.

If those forces are understood scientifically, it seize from been supernatural and becomes natural.

At the moment, you can't provide evidence the sound from Osanyin with any scientific information, it is therefore from a supernatural source.

What is it you don't understand?

XxSabrinaxX:
You are starting to sound like a broken record, that skips beats, repeats the same lines & crashes the party.

Take your time to assimilate terminologies. And also view thing objectively without only your myopic lens.

My avocation for Sango existence is based on historical facts and scientific evidence.

Historical evidence buttress there is actually a man that rule Oyo kingdom called Sango

This person mastered the art of manipulating and using lightning and thunder to his own advantage. He uses lightning to strike enemy of the state at will. Hence, the reason people named lightning and thunder according to his name.

What is wrong with that? Nothing. Some scientific terms are named after discoverers.

What Yoruba people call Sango existed and still exist. Lightning and thunder is Sango.

Your issue is you are want to see what is not there. Maybe a literal flying pig. Lol

XxSabrinaxX:
Bless your heart. Sarcasm is your bane, eh?

Won't massage your ego.

XxSabrinaxX:
As you can see from my previous post, i have as a matter of fact, read them extensively. No one has even passed the qualifying pretest which was simpler to set up but could be beaten with good luck. The formal test has never needed to be run and all there is left are the sorry, incoherent excuses the participants, such as yourself, gave.

A dead challenge, not worthy of my time and effort.

XxSabrinaxX:
I don't know if this is supposed to offend me, but right now the only thing offending me is your stubborn gullibility & crass unintelligence

Hahaha....

Appreciate your unrelenting effort at making sense, there is no sense in your thoughts.

XxSabrinaxX:
FOLYKAZE, when are you going to take the hint, huh? I dont give a Flying Unicorn Carrying Kilishi about what your illustrations imply! Stop acting dyslexic; read and understand what i'm saying!

Calm down. Already knew you are lousy. Let reasons speak, not rabble rouser

XxSabrinaxX:
Look, i think reverence and belonging are cute. Very cute. But they are misplaced when directed towards an indifferent reality! For me, revering random objects & things like the universe would be like revering a house. I live in it, and i like living in it, and it has room for all my stuff. That makes it a nice place to be, but i don't revere it.

The emboldened. Are the properly placed when directed toward reality?

There has been no one, not even one in any culture or society that has been found worshipping or revering house. People revere nature.

Let me ask, do you revere money?

Do you revere law?

Do you revere the office of the president?

What about yourself? Your consciousness?

These are practical things which are Gods because they have qualities like Authority, sacredness, worth and great value.

If you at any point revered something or someone, that person or thing becomes a god. Automatically, it exist and become your object of worship.

XxSabrinaxX:
I know humans love to attach meanings to things because of reverence, but it makes no difference! There is no connection we are aware of. It simply exists.

You will surely get there.

First...there is no superficial meaning attached to reverence. The qualities for reverence are AUTHORITY, sacredness, and value.

When these qualities are found anywhere, you automatically make that object your God.

When you acknowledge the worth of anything or anyone, you are worshipping.

Anything or anyone that is been worshipped is your God.


So it not just human things, animals acknowledge AUTHORITY, SACREDNESS AND WORTHY. Bees for example.

What useless connection are you talking about?

God exist..thanks for approving that.

XxSabrinaxX:
Hence,


"Behold the field upon which i grow my fvcks. Lay thine eyes upon it, for it is barren!"
-XxSabrinaxX, May 2019 ©

Another inconsequential rants.

Didn't you just approve there are authorities that is been revered and these object of worship exist?

XxSabrinaxX:
LOL. I'd advise you look away from that mirror to avoid making ironic comments such as these

My advise, take your time and study and understand terminologies before jumping at your gun

XxSabrinaxX:
Indeed it has! And you'll do your penance for subjecting logic to torture like this!

Your logic has been fallacy

XxSabrinaxX:

---

PS: I'd stop responding to you, but i'd hate to give the viewers the impression that you're making sense. Cause you're not!

Have got you all alone. LordReed is a tenager. Tilting is loose. You are not tactical either way.

XxSabrinaxX:
No can do, FOLY! That is my M.O now. And rather than grow horns, i suggest you grow brains. I don't care how you do it!

You've got to be respectful. I don't like it. It makes me hor. nny

XxSabrinaxX:
Beautiful. Took me sheer will to get up off my ass.

Spent time with Mum since it was mother's day yesterday. A toast to womanhood.

XxSabrinaxX:
YOU put yourself in the corner when you brought up Osanyin! The burden of proof is on YOU!

You keep touting an already battered phrase 'onus probandi' because you are a pussi.iey and do not want to bear any responsibility.

What is my claim and what proof are you asking for? The whole point is self explanatory, you are the one here digressing into onus game.

You assert my claim is false, how is it false? Explain it.

Summarily asserting my claims are 'false' put you in the corner. It is now your duty to explain how it is

XxSabrinaxX:
Cc. LordRed, Matinez39, CAPSLOCKE

I must admit you are a lousy woman. Why are you calling on these guys often and often? To come and praise you or something?

XxSabrinaxX:
You people should come abeg. Ayam not understanding what this man is saying. Does he want to kee me with laff? LMAO.

FOLY please
a) Define "Claim"
b) Define "Evidence"
c) Define "Burden Of Proof"

FOLY, perhaps i didn't use the right language, but did you happen to purposely ignore the context in which i made that statement? Probably to justify lifting the burden of your shoulders?

Let me now break it down for you. Watch this:

FOLY: Osanyin is real
XxSabrinax: I don't believe you
FOLY: Come and see for yourself
XxSabrinax: I don't give a damn about your Osanyin. You made an extraordinary claim and the burden is on YOU to prove it. Until you do, your claim is false! I just don't care enough to inconvenience myself to disprove your unproven claim. You have other avenues of proving your claim. Investigation is worthless to ME! I have no duty here.

You have too many problem. First it is an oversight and second, you don't even read and understand probably before jumping into a discussion

a) CLAIM
Assertion; a new statement of something one believes to be the truth, usually when the statement has yet to be verified or without valid evidence provided.

b) EVIDENCE
Facts or observations presented in support of an assertion.

C) BURDEN OF PROOF
onus probandi. The duty of a party in a legal proceeding to prove an assertion of fact; it includes both the burden of production and the burden of persuasion.

a(i) WHAT IS MY CLAIM?

Here is my claim on this thread

Osanyin is the Yoruba God of medicine. And one of it features is that it speaks audibly. However, I have personally dismantled this idol in search of that which speaks inside it. I have not make a single success till date. There are dolls that can talk, but they are equipped with a device that make them talk. The case is different from Osanyin...hence, my ground stand that there are still some unexplainable natural phenomenon which I call supernatural that exist out there.

I only need an atheist to come out. I personally will take you to Osanyin priest and will allow us to inspect it.

The points in the submission above simply are;

i) There is something called Osanyin.
ii) In Yoruba spirituality, Osanyin is known as God of medicine
iii) It has a feature which is 'audible communication'
iv) There is ventriloquy
v) I have investigated source of audio sound from both ventriloquy and Osanyin
vi) Difference between ventriloquy and Osanyin is installation of audio device
vii) Defined Supernatural as unexplainable natural phenomenon
viii) my submission is Osanyin sound is supernaturally sourced
ix) atheist should come and inspect it.


a(ii). WHAT IS YOUR ARGUMENT

i) Osanyin does not exist
ii) It exist, but a ventriloquy
iii) the claim that I dismantled Osanyin is false
iv) defined supernatural as beyond, transcend and above nature.
v) Cannot inspect Osanyin


a(iiii) WHAT ARE THE LOGICAL FACTS?
i) There is indeed a thing, doll called Osanyin.
ii) Osanyin among the Yorubas is the god of medicine
iii) It can converse audibly.

(the three above facts have been shown to you in a video)

iv) Ventriloquy sounds are either from the ventriloquist or from installed device in the doll.
v) From my inspection, there nothing in it that produce the auido sound.


There is no bogus claim. Infact, there is no claim that is far fetched. We have gone from page one to page six chasing nothing. I assume you just want to axe anything that doesn't that has to do with God or supernatural. My whole claim and request is the source of the sound...


b(i). WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE?

i) A video link on here has proven Osanyin exist and capable of talking.

c(i). WHO BEARS THE BURDEN OF PROOF?

From the claim in quote above, and the analysis above, I didn't make any bogus claim or assertion that is positive. And even if there are claims, they have been proven to be truth. It annoys to go into an endless circle without any cogent reasons. This has proven that you so called atheists are pack of hyenas who have lost patience and intellectual capacity to debate issues with brilliancy.

I simply called for an 'inspection' of Osanyin sounds and maybe you or intellectual lazy brats could justify it is sourced from an installed device or the priest. You have all made excuses and declined that offer.

Maybe you should read more about burden of proof.

There is a thing called Osanyin, it can talk.

Me: The sound is not from an installed device or priest. It is definitely supernatural source.

You: It is a Ventriloquy, simple natural. (turn around again), it doesn't exist.

Me: I had dismantled Osanyin and found nothing inside.

You: (nothing reasonable to say)

Me: ok come and inspect it before you make any further thing.

You: it is fake, your claim are false, it does exist.


Since you think you don't need to inspect Osanyin and could make a positive assertions, you will have to prove your assertions are correct.

XxSabrinaxX:
I don't know where you get this idea that i'm interested in your stories. To save people from being misled by your sense of reasoning: that's my sole purpose here!

Save who? Is it with this directionless argument?

XxSabrinaxX:
SMDH!

I'm not talking of the figurine, mister. I'm talking of the deity itself! Afterall, isn't the figurine supposedly the device the deity apparently uses to interact with reality?

The figurine is simply an instrument. A chunk (wasted) of wood. The supernatural source is what you're calling Osanyin!

Wtf!!!

So if a bank atm is not powered on, does it stop it from been an atm machine?

Cut the crap, Osanyin is the name of the doll. The features and ability is another thing entirely.

You are lost and confused

XxSabrinaxX:
My goodness!


It was scam? LOL

You obviously didn't read jackshit about the challenge if you think so. What sad excuse didn't those participants give to justify their failure?

a) it wasn't fair? The test conditions were to be agreed upon by the participants: demonstrate your claimed ability under controlled conditions that preclude cheating that beat significant odds. It was stacked towards demonstrating the truth!

b) Their magic powers don't work around non-believers? When Randi had neutral observers he knew he could trust to follow agreed protocols and he used them?

c) Test conditions stopping their powers from working? Apparently, not allowing cheating caused their powers to vanish!

d) the money didn't exist or they didn't do it for the money?....

LOL. And what of supposed psychic Sylvia Brown who claimed she didn't know how to contact Randi? Imagine that!

I don't need to waste time on a dead challenge.

XxSabrinaxX:
FOLY please zip it & take several seats!

The rest of your post here is useless and i won't bother myself that. But i will say, once again, just to drill it into that concrete brain of yours: I have the right to dismiss any extraordinary claim as false until proven otherwise by the proposer of said claim!

You are nothing but a lousy rabble rouser who throws thousands word without any meaningful contents. And your pack of hyenas which you call haven't done you any good than to contradict you and makes baseless tantrum. Your attempts at distorting my submission are even warped. Nothing in your counter attack has been logical or coherent. All noise with no substance.

If you have dismissed or disagreed with my claims, I wouldn't have bothered you. But when you claim they are false, you are making a positive assertion and the onus is on you to prove I am wrong and you are right.

What have you proven so far?

How have you proven anything without Firstly inspecting Osanyin.

Will I ever accept anything you claim without inspecting the subject?

tintingz:
Deists don't believe in supernatural, from what I read.

What you read. After reading that you didnt think? Playing safe.

tintingz:
Did they say they are facts?

Hypothesis and theories leads to facts while it can also be thrash away if not found to be true.

It is thrash if it is not fact. Keep your bullshiiit

tintingz:
One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge by James Randi foundation has done the job. Your paranormal are fake and tricks.

At least there was a challenge that your paranormal people fail to demonstrate successfully for decades.

How about you sponsor trip so that I can showcase this in US?

And you just heard about Randi, that is why you're brandishing the wiki link over and over again. If you have taken your little time to read content on the link you would discover the challenge has been terminated since 2015. You just showcase you are a pathetic fool.

Even if the challenge is still on, you go finance am? The one that is cost friendly, you abandoned it and push for one in US. You are an idiot.

I know you idiot will give another excuse.

tintingz:
What are the rituals in science?

You tell me.

tintingz:
I'm pointing out the absurdity in your reasoning that medical doctors heal people without attributing any mumbo jumbo spirit to it, they heal people far better than your witch doctors in the bush.

Your witch doctor were not able to know sickle cell was responsible for many deaths of infants but Instead they call it "abiku" that it's some kind of a curse.

Your medical doctor call it sickle cell. Lol

tintingz:
Oga, if you're not ready to present your magicians in public kindly swerve.

Says a coward who is scared of coming out of his hole.

tintingz:
Have you try asking medicals why garri and lime works as anti-malaria before concluding it's the work of the spirits?

The solution is found in Ifa, a spiritual source. The solution itself is not spiritual dumbfuccck.

Why can't you take it to the lab?

tintingz:
We all know Jesus was telling a fairytale/fictional story as a proverb.

We know you are dumb and can't decipher the simplest proverbial message. You always want everything in back and white.

tintingz:
What's Olorun and where is "orun"?

Orun is heaven. What has heaven got to do with sky?

tintingz:
You said your God is not in the sky, right?

I am a deity. Am I living in the sky? Why are you so dumb?

tintingz:
I guess you're out of juice.

A personal God has anthropomorphic characters, Eledumare from my view is not an impersonal God but a personal God, he has wife, children, grandchildren and communicate with humans which is the "Olofi", part of his manifestation.

Olofin is a title. More like Olorun. And that title also applies to Ooni of Ife.. I mean Olofin. So you see how dull you are?

From your own view Eledumare has a wife? I have been arguing with an insane person.

tintingz:
Not like the deist God who has nothing to do with it creation after it created them, it personality is not known.

When did you start having to do with Eledumare? Has he spoken or anyone claim he spoke to them directly? Do you think Olodumare is Yahweh?

tintingz:
Yes I don't know, please tell us the purpose of a tortoise talking in a story?

The whole story is centre on morality duh

tintingz:
Good for you.

Yes because they know they are fictions.

Do you know that some Christians take Adam and Eve story as allegory not literally?

Smh

I am not a Christian.

tintingz:
Alchemy was abandoned because it's not useful to explain the matter of nature and transformation, chemistry then came in and was successful.

Kindly read about Alchemy.

Alchemy was not abandoned. It is expanded and broadened. It is the foundation on which modern chemistry is built on. You are duh.

tintingz:
Lol, you're a clown.

I'm talking about the ancient Greek scholars, they are not mansons.

Pythagoras was

tintingz:
Keep on with your conspiracies.

Keep your dullness with you.

XxSabrinaxX:
SMH. FOLYKAZE please pull the wool from over your eyes. You haven't got the slightest idea what you're saying!

Did you happen to miss the prefix here? "Supernatural" is the operation of any identity that transcends matter, energy, space or time. It means "ABOVE nature".

It follows logically that "above nature's laws" and "above and beyond matter, energy, space and time" are prescribed by the term. God, spirit, soul and mind are examples of phenomena that are beyond the realm of "natural".

Now I can see where the problem lies. Definitions/conceptions.

You see, you would have been the smart girl if we have agreed on a concept and definitions.

For one, the conception of God can extend to various levels of abstraction
- as a powerful, human-like, supernatural being
- or as the deification of an esoteric ,
mystical or philosophical entity or category
- as The Ultimate or The Infinite or The One or The Absolute.

The first concept is the classical description of God in monotheism. God in this concept are above and within matter, energy, space and time.

The second concept is classical description of God in Pantheism. Pantheism is the belief that reality and nature are identical with God (Godhead or divinity). This mean everything within matter, energy, space, and time are real, exist and divine.

The third concept is classical description of God in Deism. It is a belief which held that God is the uncaused FIRST cause who created the world. He is above and transcend (as you put it) nature and natural laws..

If your definition would apply, that will be to partially first and wholly to third concept.

Now,who do you deal with....A spiritual atheist. Heard that before?

Foly is a spiritual atheist who tends toward naturalist pantheism.


Nature is God. Since Nature exist, God exist.

Your definition Ma'am does not apply to Pantheism concept of God.

Supernatural:
According to dictionary.com
of, relating to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

According to Wikipedia
The concept of the supernatural encompasses anything that is inexplicable by scientific understanding of the laws of nature but nevertheless argued by believers to exist.



Know who you're dealing with Ma

XxSabrinaxX:
If you advocate for the existence of Osanyin & Sango, you advocate for the existence of supernatural beings!

Sango existed historically. He was the third king of Oyo.

Sango exist naturally as Electric energy.

I see God or divinity in nature.

XxSabrinaxX:
Why don't you just go ahead and email me the rest of the story?

I have a wife already. She has the only right to know me

XxSabrinaxX:
Also, the next time you want to recite this story, you might want to recite it to James Randi!


OR...

...It is science we haven' t been able to explain or understand yet.

Do you even know how unrealistic randi challenge is? Please take time and read submissions from those picked the challenge.

XxSabrinaxX:
This is ALL wishful thinking that has no basis in objective reality!

If ALL this means is that the universe or reality can be explained with some random supernatural moniker, no matter what the nature of the universe is, then its pointless redefining the name of said moniker in a way that will only cause confusion. If its supposed to be a substantiative metaphysical thesis, e.g. The universe as a whole has some kind of consciousness or has supernatural properties or whatever, then its a ridiculous fantasy! It's a really sad play because it adds to the persistent problem of evidence the additional problem of relevance/importance.

Also, SMDHLOL @ those illustrations you gave. Especially the "cow" one. As if you didn't know that religions often codify into supernatural law, things that the priesthood consider common sense. Take Jewish priests for example. They drew correlations between eating shellfish or pig meat and illness, and then codified it into scripture. Not to mention ALL your illustrations are useless anyway because they commit the false equivalence fallacy. The analogies just don't work.

Sorry I am not using Microsoft office. Would have made a count of how many words you have up there. They are off target, and practically useless.

I asked a very important question. And because you are not capable of answering it, you pour down too many words which ain't making any sense or make any attempt at address the question. Playing along all these while, I was expecting you to bring out of best thought.


The philosophical question I asked thrown at you as to know why a God is God....

Outside Godly sense, sacredness of ideas, concepts and things cut across all social life. Which made me ask the pertinent question, why do we have a concept called law that is been revered, held as sacred and conferred with authority?

Maybe you will cut the crap and start seeing things as an intellectual person I think you are. Legal system are not religious settings. So please look beyond religiosity.

Why do you prefer money than paper? Afterall both are papers

Why is seal of office held sacred?

Why the difference between between nobles and commoners? After all they are both humans..

The difference lies in worth, authority and value.

When you can't find either of those above in anything, then it remain constant to you. But when you find those qualities above in anything, you will held that thing in high esteem, revere it, worship it and thus become your God.



That is the reason JW thinks nationalism is idol worshipping.


Now, a Yoruba Baba knows the worth, value and acknowledge the authority of a natural entity over a circumstances, society and other entities for that reason, they recognise such entity as Orisa.

Godhead is Authority which Yoruba call Ase.

XxSabrinaxX:
Grow up, Foly . Seriously. You got conned and believed in a fairytale for way too long. It happens. Stop destroying the foundation of discourse. Take your lumps and maybe learn from the experience!

You do not know much anything about religion. That is why you are directionless Ma

XxSabrinaxX:
As for your claims, i'm not going to drag the issue any further. If you feel so confident about it, you could strive to win the million dollars from the James Randi challenge. The only reason i'd respond to you again on this thread is to bust any fallacious logic you may try to present this time.

Vale!

Logic don suffer. Lok

Can you do something for me please? I don't like when you call my name over and over in your post. Makes me horn....grow horn lol


Hope you had a nice rest?

Lets see what you got.

XxSabrinaxX:
I could teach it to you but i couldn't understand it for you

You do not understand what you are impacting in me. Teacher Teacher, no teach me nonsense. Love baba Fela

XxSabrinaxX:
@bold Generalization fallacy aside...

This has nothing to do with responsibility. This is about the burden of proof.

YOU are making a positive claim, hence the burden of proof rests on YOU insisting that X exists, particularly if X is extraordinary in nature. I'm the skeptic of claim X, so the burden of proof doesn't lie on ME to disprove the unproven assertion that X is real! Let that sink into your thick head!

Madam, you are putting the cart before the horse. Point is you are trying to put me in a corner. Or maybe you had an oversight, eager to knock me out and keep misfiring. My advice, lets keep it short, concise and articulate.

Proverbs 10 :19
When words are many, transgression is not lacking, but whoever restrains his lips is prudent.

I was putting the burden on your shoulder after you made the below statement

Any claim with false details is not worth salvaging in my opinion

You are not a skeptic. The statement above tells that if you were a judge, you would not give me a fair hearing. Hence, you summarily dismissed my claim, canceled it by concluding it is false, and had the table turn. Because of this, the burden of proof is on you. Which is proving that my claim is false. You put yourself in that corner, sorry dear.

XxSabrinaxX:
LOL. What's funny is the fact that you said this literally one line after:

"Osanyin does exist..."
- FOLY(m): 7:26 am on May 11

How you gonna claim you don't believe supernatural beings exist but keep chanting "Osanyin does exist..."? What kinda stunt are you trying to pull here, mister?

*deep breathe* Let me just remain calm. She is a woman.

A piece of advice My Lady. When you don't know it, you don't talk about it.

Osanyin is made out of the wood. Carved by a craftman just like a doll. That does exist. Even the sound is audible.

What I claimed is that the audio sound is not from an installed audio device.

A doll could talk. But there would be some kind of device installed in it that makes it talk. Such device hasnt been found yet by me after successfully dismantling the doll. So I concluded the source of the sound isn't natural or simply put, it's supernatural.

You understand this now?

XxSabrinaxX:
Don't get it twisted. I have nothing to prove here. You brought up Osanyin. I don't even live in the country so you don't expect me to leave my job & shuttle all the way down there to come and experience your experience. Don't mistake my apathy for cowardice.

Your reasons are understandable and acceptable.

XxSabrinaxX:
And if you think atheists don't investigate claims, it'll interest you to know that a fair number of "supernatural events" similar to the ones you're describing here have been investigated and found lacking. Skeptic Inquirer did a study of a number of "weeping" & "bleeding" statues and exposed them to be pious frauds with individuals loading the porous plaster with liquids and putting pinholes in their eyes. Miracle workers like the psychic surgeons, "Arigo of the rusty knife", "John of God" have all been long investigated and debunked!

Still have nothing to do with my claims. I am dealing with you, not members on those websites. Mase wo ariwo oja. You understand Yoruba ba?

XxSabrinaxX:
If, really, you are passionate about proving your claims, i've already told you what to do. Meanwhile, you should consider the James Randi One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge. Instead of shamelessly wasting your time attacking atheists with bad logic, you'd have been a made man with your Osanyin!

I have read somewhere else it is a scam. Read about that in 2009 or thereabout. That is 10yrs ago.

I don dey here and in the game he don tay.

And I would need to trip to US. You go sponsor me?

Remember sending a mail that wasn't responded. And many stuff about the challenge prove it is a joke.

XxSabrinaxX:
No it doesn't! But you do it anyway, so what do i know?

I tasted it and knew what it was like. You can't tell me shiiit about what I tasted if you don't have same tip.

They are all pus..susies.

XxSabrinaxX:
When i argue,
FOLYKAZE, i argue for the ignorant guests watching the thread. I really don't care about getting you to change your mind by employing entrapment & rhetorics. But when i see someone who does, i call his bluff!

What point have you passed? You don't even know what Osanyin is. The argument is just aimless.

XxSabrinaxX:
Atheists (most) don't argue that there is no god. Atheists argue that there is no evidence for god.

Thank God you added most.

Before you confuse yourself further, what is God?

XxSabrinaxX:
Your Osanyins. Your Sangos etc

Both ain't jinns.

XxSabrinaxX:
LOL. Sorry FOLY. Your challenge has now been pushed back to you. I couldn't care less about investigating your claims, but i've shown you what you must do if you want to prove your claims true.

Distance has taken care of your cowardice. Couldn't help other cowards here.

What do you push to the wall?

You haven't confirmed if my claims are true or false. You haven't shown the forum the sound is from an installed device. You haven't show us how Baba Eletu is deceptive. What did you do that gave you that.....

Women sha.. Lol

Stalemate dear. That is what it is. Without examining and confirming my claims are true, every talk is just a waste of time.

Very proud of been Ape...



Lol


Abeg you are ignored... Until maybe when you bring your relative and family to come and make it rain and also stop rain.

Anything else, I don't talk with Ape

lepasharon:
@foly why call him an idiot for being sceptical? You are sounding like a Christian

Skeptic don't outrightly reject any feat from Africa and embrace hogwash from those who called his Papa Ape.

And that is what he is, Idiot. Would have engage him directly but deliberately left him to display his foolishness at every turn.

He claimed his families can make same feat. He should call them out to display their talent. I can organise a fund raising campaign to air his family talent on tv.

And sorry beauty, some Christian are sane and objective. Not is wrong with Christianity. I just don't agree with them on some things.

Emusan:
What do you know?

Bros abeg free that guy. Like I said before, he is most likely an idiot. Can think, but not thinking properly.

@OpenYourEye1. Thanks for mentioning me on this thread. Also, I am sorry for coming on the thread late. Reason is I don't want to run into any landmine. I am studying every possible sides.

Firstly, I am not a science expert. And I am not sorcerer. But you know, Man needs to learn and keep learning.

Secondly, I will need to call attention of OkCornel here. He dropped a very important terminology while trying to dismiss the video. The term "Cloud seeding" is not new. I only took my time yesterday to read more about it.

I have heard about rainmakers but haven't seen or meet one before. And thanks to the BBC investigator for bringing this unknown rainmaker into the limelight. And not just a story, we also have a video.

These are things I deduced from the story and video..

- The investigator noted that from the weather predictions, it was likely to rain on that day.

- The Dibia acknowledged that it should rain, but he had a job from Celebrants who paid him to stop rain.

- The Dibia then opted to make it rain lightly. This is to prove he can make it rain and also stop rain at will. The little droplet would serve as evidence to investigators and also won't disrupt ongoing parry.

- Investigator agreed and set stage. There were even public audience who came to witness the test.

- Dibia indeed made it rain lightly as promised.

- When the investigator were about to go, Dibia told them again they would witness heavy downpour.

- Investigator confirmed it pour heavily and earn had to stop their car on their way to the city.

- These are three instances and it turned positive according to the reporter.

- However, the reporter noted that he wasn't sure if the incidence is natural or not.


In all these, we found that;

- Dibia stopped and could make it rain as reported.

- The reporter is an eye witness and wouldn't have made up any junk as story.

- People believe the Dibia to the extent of paying him for his service.

- The tools needed is burn fire, Gin, candle and other fetish stuff you could imagine.







Now from what I read from Cloud seeding

- It serve only one purpose, which is increase precipitation. Meaning there would be more rain than usual. There is no account of it stopping rain.

- The most common chemicals used for cloud seeding include silver iodide , potassium iodide and dry ice (solid carbon dioxide).

- The method of dispersing these chemicals is through aircraft, ground to air canister rocket laucher, air craft gun and lately, they use infrared laser.

- a read further, you will find that science community acknowledged Cloud seeding is not effective and/or the effective rate to success is below 10%

A study conducted by the National Academy of Sciences failed to find statistically significant support for the effectiveness of cloud seeding. Based on the report's findings, Stanford University ecologist Rob Jackson said: "I think you can squeeze out a little more snow or rain in some places under some conditions, but that's quite different from a program claiming to reliably increase precipitation." Data similar to that of the NAS study was acquired in a separate study conducted by the Wyoming Weather Modification Pilot Project. However, whereas the NAS study concluded that "it is difficult to show clearly that cloud seeding has a very large effect," the WWMPP study concluded that "seeding could augment the snowpack by a maximum of 3% over an entire season." [8]


In 2003 the US National Research Council (NRC) released a report stating, "...science is unable to say with assurance which, if any, seeding techniques produce positive effects. In the 55 years following the first cloud-seeding demonstrations, substantial progress has been made in understanding the natural processes that account for our daily weather. Yet scientifically acceptable proof for significant seeding effects has not been achieved". [9] :13

A 2010 Tel Aviv University study claimed that the common practice of cloud seeding to improve rainfall, with materials such as silver iodide and frozen carbon dioxide, seems to have little if any impact on the amount of precipitation. [10] A 2011 study suggested that airplanes may produce ice particles by freezing cloud droplets that cool as they flow around the tips of propellers, over wings or over jet aircraft, and thereby unintentionally seed clouds. This could have potentially serious consequences for particular hail stone formation. [11]

However, Jeff Tilley, director of weather modification at the Desert Research Institute in Reno, claimed in 2016 that new technology and research has produced reliable results that make cloud seeding a dependable and affordable water supply practice for many regions. [12] Moreover, in 1998 the American Meteroligical Society held that "precipitation from supercooled orographic clouds (clouds that develop over mountains) has been seasonally increased by about 10%." [13]

Despite the mixed scientific results, cloud seeding was attempted during the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing to coax rain showers out of clouds before they reached the Olympic city in order to prevent rain during the opening and closing ceremonies. [14] Whether this attempt was successful is a matter of dispute, with Roelof Bruintjes, who leads the National Center for Atmospheric Research’s weather-modification group, remarking that “we cannot make clouds or chase clouds away.”

Source: Wikipedia



My verdict:

While Dibia could make and stop rain, cloud seeding can only increase precipitation.

Cloud seeding is success rate is 10/100 and far below. Dibia success rate base on the report is 100/100

Cost of execution is low and risk free, cloud seeding would need advance technology and chemicals coming at a cost and prone a disaster to health of general public.

While both manipulate the weather, the science community do not understand how to make it work... Dibia or let me say Spiritualist have been doing these for long.

(please note, science and spirituality are just different sides of same coin)

I must admit there are still more to answer by the Dibia.

However, one begin to wonder what type of youth we have on nairaland. The one the west wrote that they are lesser human, could hardly think and never make anything on his own, they are running unto the same west to approve weathering methods.

One of them asked... Why couldn't the dibia make it rain immediately, why did it rain 2hrs after. I begin to wonder if cloud seeding makes it rain almost immediately. Does he even know whatever to the cloud would take time before it disperse and dissolve properly?

Has weather app accurately predict it would rain at so so time? Most of it predictions are not even accurate. But you know Africans, na white make sense pass...sticking to their as. s is intelligence

Another one I think will be smart is asking if Dibia could make it rain in dry season...what can he do at all? He should tell us his feet and let us examine it.

Another one stated it is scam....so the reporter couldn't deduct rainmaker predicted the incident.


@Emusan, that idiot who stated his family could make rain, he should be asked to bring any of his family member to come do it.


When a video like this came out, I expect people to look for the man and start questioning him. To investigate and see if he is worthy of been added into scientific field where he will add more knowledge to weather studies.

OgboAto:
Ase.

Please ignore NPComplete. He is most likely an idiot. People like him are easy to spot.
.
Take on person like xxsabrinaxx

XxSabrinaxX:


Bwahahahahahahaa. What a truck load of hubris!!! I nearly spit my night tea on my Mac just going through this. LOL

FOLYKAZE please allow me, in this very sweet chilly hours of the early a.m, to have my good night sleep. Its been a long day indeed and i've been trying to get a shut eye since.

I've bookmarked this post, however. So i'd plead you don't take to your heels yet. The part that had me entertained was your desperate contortion of the meaning of the word "supernatural", only for you to shoot yourself in the d!ck later on

Watch this space, sir & let me factory reset myself. Stay tuned & have a great morning...

Loooool

tintingz:
Again, people like the theists attributes a manifestation/events to supernatural out of ignorance! They believe since science nor anyone cannot explain an event, they will conclude it must be supernatural, one is "appealing to ignorance" here.

We have given you how lightning and thunder were once seen as supernatural, now we know how they works, the idea of supernatural has diminished here.

Appealing or argument from ignorance is nonsensical, you're simply committing a fallacy.

Paranormal has not been proven, they are all fake and tricks.

Lol,

The problem you have is theism.

Naturalistic panthiests, and Deists see God in nature.

Some culture also raise their kings to God's status.

tintingz:
There's scientific fact while hypothesis and theories are research that leads to it.

I've told you to go understand scientific methods.

Hypothesis and conjecture ain't facts or truth.

tintingz:
Paranormal has been proven to be fake and tricks.

Show us evidence to buttress your claim

tintingz:
No one has been able to demonstrate a real paranormal powers.

There was challenge organized for it.

One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

LMAO, you're a clown.

I know about Randy foundation challenge. The one and very challenge before you, you haven't pick. You are submitting another one in US. Are you stupid??

tintingz:
There's nothing spiritual here, they only want you to believe it's spiritual since you're ignorant.

Herbs mixing is medicinal, it's like when you mix chemicals. Many modern medicine are also gotten from plants but you don't see medical doctors attributing it to some mumbo jumbo spirit.

There have been surgeries since the ancient days.

There has been ritual in science... Lol

tintingz:
Medical doctors heal people without attributing it to some mumbo jumbo spirit, they use same source of medicine the traditional doctors use but in advanced form.

Medical doctors know invoking spirits for medical treatment is irrelevant and nonsensical, it's ignorant like you that still believe in this nonsense.

Doctors are medical practitioners not witch doctors. They have different medium of obtaining results. You are only dumb expecting doctors to work in line with witch doctor.

tintingz:
I've, no investigative report on it.

Tell your magicians to come to a neutral ground, we're waiting.


Lmao!!!!!

Yawn!!!

tintingz:
Dude, you're Ignorant. Always appealing to ignorance.

Did you ask anyone in the medical field about this? Ask them they will give you answers if they actually works and the contents in this substance that makes it works.

What happens to you? Always want someone else to bear your responsibility. It is always about someone else doing it for you.

For your info, the medicine was found in Ifa corpus.

Go to lab with the specimen. Stop asking people to do the job for you.

tintingz:
Oga, there's nothing supernatural here, this is a natural thing. Garri and lime are natural.

This is non-sequitur fallacy.

Yawns!!!

tintingz:
My premise is about how Sam Harris stating the problems of interpreting a story into metaphor, instead of you to counter my premise you're talking about someone admiration for Buddhism and western approval, abeg how do they follow?

A picture tells more than a thousand words. Right?

Proverbial stories tells more than encyclopedia.

A dullar won't understand that.

When Jesus talked about a Shepherd and the lost sheep, I think your mind wires around Shephard in a field. What a dullard.

tintingz:
Stick to the premise given.

Abeg what's the meaning of OLORUN?

You dont before coming out to argue against it? Pick up a book duh.

tintingz:
Ogun is the God of iron and metal, Abeg I'm tired of repeating myself.

Yawn!!!

tintingz:
I've asked you to mention in details how Ogun created the human skeleton.

Consult Ifa

tintingz:
I don't think Eledumare is totally an impersonal God, he has children and grandchildren, he's concern about humans.

It is about what you think

What about Eledumare having mother, father and wife?

I repeat you are dull.

Wikipedia which you like to quote even said Eledumare is impersonal and does not interfare in the affair of humans.

Take your time and read before embarrassing yourself.

tintingz:
Smh

Ok

So what's the purpose of tortoise talking in a story?

You dont know?

tintingz:
Theists should just accept that their stories in the scriptures are myths and fairytales.

I am not a Christian. But sometimes, I enjoy reading book of proverb and ecclesiastical because it contain wisdom, philosophy and proverbs.

Christians don't take most of proverbial teaching of Jesus literally. You are the one saying your mind. Telling us how empty it is.

tintingz:
Ok, Ogun is now calcium?

Use your tongue to count your teeth

tintingz:
Oga answer my question, is spirituality used in scientific methods?

Two sides of a coin.

Hope you aint looking for a coin this time.

tintingz:
To answer your question, it's "alchemy" which was unsuccessful in explaining the nature of matter and transformation, it was not useful, then chemistry came in.

Unsuccessful and they built monuments which a replica you can't find today?

They even successfully kept corpse thousands of years with simple solutions.

They invented fire, domesticated animals, observe Sirius B without any advance tool, invented firearm and build civilization. How many of these have you achieved?

tintingz:
I never disputed the early scholars were spiritual, many were spiritual. Kindly go read my premises again.

They were Masons.

tintingz:
The early scholars which were spiritual started being sceptical about their beliefs, they find spirituality not useful they delve into science which works for them.

You are dull. Masons only want power, hence they kept their knowledge secret. However, they still practise ritual and some form of spirituality.

XxSabrinaxX:
By the way, SMH @ you FOLY. Clearly reason & logic is the Bane of your existence!

What about you teach me logic?

XxSabrinaxX:
Says who? You?

LOL. You must have me mistaken with yourself!

That is every women problem, they don't want to shoulder responsibility. Or want men to bear the cross always. Maybe Africans who claimed to be atheists are pus.sies

XxSabrinaxX:
Seeing as I largely don't believe that the supernatural beings you've cited actually exist, why on Earth would I bother with the hassle and expense of coming halfway around the world to "experience what you experienced?"

Are you out of your mind? Where did I state supernatural beings exist?

XxSabrinaxX:
It's your job to demonstrate that these creatures exist, not ours, and orchestrating a one-on-one exhibition marathon isn't really a scientifically valid way of going about it anyway.

How do I demonstrate online?

Osanyin does exist, it is your duty to investigate if it actually converse audibly or not. Then we can move unto the next task which is finding the audio device installed in it. My claim was there is no known audio device installed in the creature, if you don't accept my claim, come out and show us the installed device.

Your first duty is to verify my claims if they are true or not. Simple.

XxSabrinaxX:
So you see, FOLYKAZE, that you already knew that you weren't going to get what you supposedly need in order to fulfil your end of the challenge. And as I’ve seen in at least one of your comments on another answer, this has allowed you to bring out that sorry, pathetic, dusty, age-old “oh, so you're too chicken to do it then? You must believe at least a tiny little bit if you're too afraid to do what I'm asking!” counter. This is a logical fallacy, and it doesn't help your cause.

And this make sense?

XxSabrinaxX:
So, I can safely dismiss your entire request as being disingenuous. It's a ‘gotcha!’ in disguise!

And would open your hands to argue aimlessly without achieving anything tangible right?

You are have been arguing for years there is no God. Theist says there is... But what has the arguments for achieved when theist can not provide tangible evidence to prove their God exist? So if they provide one evidence, and ask you to come for it you will dismiss it right?

There is a saying in Yoruba, ti ogun eni ba daniloju, ama fi n gbari ni.

XxSabrinaxX:
And based on your exchange with tintingz, It sounds to me that even if your beloved jinns et al did exist, they’ve become irrelevant and impotent in the modern age. You see now, FOLYKAZE, that you are very pious in reasoning, and very susceptible, hence you lack the capacity to be logical at the very least!

Which jinn are you talking about?

XxSabrinaxX:
I tell you what, FOLYKAZE. If time allows me & you're willing to arrange to travel over to my pub on a set date, I'd be more than willing to investigate your claims. So long as it costs absolutely no effort or money on my end, I don't care what you do. We could have some independent observers come along and witness it too, that way!

I said and I will say it again. I will bear all the cost of lodging you in any choice hotel in Ore and take care of transportation within Ore. You will bear responsibility of getting to Ore. You self should bear some responsibilities abeg.

XxSabrinaxX:
Just because we cant explain how such an event occurred naturally, does not mean that it cant occur naturally. I explained this some time ago here. Can't remember the thread...

My dear, you can take your time and access how I defined supernatural in the past. It is simple natural phenomenal which cannot be explain by science.

XxSabrinaxX:
When accessing an event as a supernatural occurence, you must first assume that the universe follows some regular order(the natural laws and such)!

There are 3 options to choose from when
accessing an event:
a) you were mistaken in what you saw,
b) you are ignorant of how such an event occurred naturally, or
c) its a suspension of the natural laws (not necessarily supernatural).

a) happens. People
are always mistaken in what they witness. Obviously, watching a talking figurine isn't hard to be mistaken about (seriously, what do you know about sound and sound waves)
b) also happens. We are constantly updating our understanding upon the finding of new evidence and explaining the ones unexplained. General Relativity explained things Newtonian physics could not. However, we have no actual clue whether c) actually happens. Since the universe follows some particular order, and because we know a) and b) happen, it is more reasonable to assume that the universe still follows a particular order and that a) or b) happened. Most likely b) in the cases you gave.

The suspension of the laws of nature is not necessarily supernatural because a supernatural event is caused by the divine. The suspension of the laws could simply be a random event with no connection to some divine intelligence. There is nothing that says the universe must follow these laws, and it could stop doing so.

So in order to prove your claims, FOLYKAZE,
one must prove not only that c) is the most likely answer(good luck with that), and that it was most likely caused by the divine, rather than just a random occurrence. This makes proving the supernatural almost impossible.

a. I didn't make mistake in what I saw. Infact, I have seen Osanyin talk for over 20years. Between that period till date, I have see it talk over hundred times. Personally, I visit the shrine just to ask any random and stupid questions. And I have been there for personal issues which cannot be discussed on public forum. In all these, I get answers directly for the mouth of Osanyin instead of Babalawo.

And as per the Baba Eletu and the gunpowder. I got to know him some few years ago. And I have personally investigated him at least more than twice. He even give room for doubters to confirm the efficacy of his charm freely. So I didn't make mistake in what I saw.

b. I know what ventriloquism is. But ventriloquist install talking device in their gadget. This is not same with Osanyin. There is no audio device in Osanyin

I also know gunpowder has potential of burning. Yes. But how does it burn a particular person and refuse to burn others? Why must it burn the particular criminal who would later confess to the crime after been handed to Police? My thought was it works with fear but I was wrong. That stuff picks criminal within a sec. Astonishing.

c. When there is no available scientific explanation, it is supernatural. Sorry.

XxSabrinaxX:
PS: Natural Pantheism is bullshit. Nature is nature and electrical energy is electrical energy! Learn how to cook your beans well. No wonder you don't care for taste!

Hahahahahaha

Madam please are you a Yoruba? Please ask any Yoruba person the meaning of these phrase... Aye pe gba, airin jina ni ko je ka ri abuke okere, bi aba rin jina, a ri eja ti o yaro

Literal meaning of the above phrase is, there are upto 200 realities, because you didn't seek a little further, that is why you didn't find squirrel with hunchback. If you have seek farther, you will find a cripple fish.

Do you know what that mean?

Naturalistic Pantheism might be bullshiiit to you. They see God through nature. And that is what many religion in the world follows.

If nature is nature, why do we have noble and commoners? Afterall they are both human.

Why do we have royal blood and ordinary blood? (or you think you would be treated same way Queen of England is been treated, ain't both women?)

Why is that cow meat in your pot but same cow held as sacred in other part of the world?




If electric energy is electric energy, what is so special in President seal of office that brings two personality in one person.

What is so special about law?

Oh you will wake up one day and say Lady Justice should be scrapped, it is bullshiiit.

iamdannyfc:
I have been following the other thread now to this. Even though i haven't watch the video, I am pretty sure this thing you are calling juju is actually called CLOUD SEEDING.
You can check Wikipedia for more info, CLOUD SEEDING are used in diverting weather/rainfall at the airport.
Maybe when I watch sha.but if it is CLOUD SEEDING,then it is just pure chemistry and does not have anything to do with the supernatural

What has Gin, and candle got to do with cloud seeding?

Do the west seed cloud with ogogoro?