₦airaland Forum

Reyginus:
No. It's not about Christianity but what etymology of anything has to do with that thing. Are you clear now?

I know etymology of a word capture the true meaning of it.

Spirituality has defined etymologically differ from christianity which is a religion

Tufanja:
Wow, thanks so much for doing the effort for this extended explanation! I got so many thoughts crossing my mind that I even don't know where to start my response. I will get back to you and the topic when I have had some time to chew on it and organize my thoughts.

I will lok forward for your response

Tufanja:
Yeah i know but i dont know the details of the why and how. Pretty illegal if its still practiced. If anybody has more info about it, wld like to hear it.

Illegal?

The reason there is right to marriage is the reason there is a space for divorce.

The reason there is right to live is the reason there is a space to becoming 'Abobaku'.

How is that illegality?

Tufanja:
"human sacrifice.."...How? Is this still pratised these days?

Abobaku are sacrificed in present days though in a coded way.

What is wrong with someone that decides to sacrifice his life for the royal fam?

No be dem decision?

logoscope:
Nice one sir. I know that the Bible has being altered cos I'm an ex-christian. But why should I believe in the Yoruba rituals, charms, e.t.c especially since some involves human sacrifice.

I wont deny human were sacrifced in Yoruba rites and tradition but this is not encouraged in anyway in Ifa or by Orunmila. Human sacrifice is very common during Oro ritual process. Oro is component of Isese but has nothing to do with Ifa. And as we know, human sacrifice was social norm in the past just like slavery. Christianity just like other tradition religion across the world engage in some form of sacrifice. Jesus sacrifed his life, Anshura in Islam involve sacrificing of bloodd and flesh of human. People are killed for sacrifice when a king died and during the burial process. This is basic Oro tradition and has nothing to do with Ifa. Humans are not sacrificed to any Orisha. I can confidently say no Orisha will accept human blood. One should note that human sacrifice is a practise within our tradition and not spirituality. Victims are killed when Oba die during burial rite. This is Oro custom. . . . And one should note that people are not killed randomly. There are "Abobaku" - which is someone who is chosen to be buried with the king, as according to customs, an King is never buried alone. This is title just like Kingmaker (Afobaje) title. Abobaku are the ones mostly killed as atonement to the land and to accompany the King to the ancestors realm. I understand how barbaric this act is but you cannot put the blame on anyone or the lay down tradition because before someone can be given the title "Abobaku", there would be some kind of mutual agreement between the person who want to be become Abobaku and the chiefs. Abobaku enjoy the same wealth and lifestyle of the king. Immediately they agree to sign up for this post, they are compensated with riches, land, investment, women and enjoy every service just like the King. Some Abobaku are friends of a prince. They know their fate. They are aware they will die immediately the king pass on. They know what will become of them when the king spirit breaks out. They understand they wont live when the king die. They know all these and agreed to lay down their life alongside the kings own. Some agree for the love of the prince or king. Some do because of the royal family. Some do because they want to familarize with palace. Some do because of their greed and what they will eventually earn.

The vital question people refuse to ask is, 'who do we blame'? Is it the royal family, or the custom or the Abobaku who voluntare to lay down his life when the king die? The sacrifice is norms and social upright custom that involve a consensual and mutual agreement between Abobaku and the Royal Family.

There are also some who fall victim during the burial rite of the king. They are later either freed, serve the palace as a punishment or killed. These victims are captured during Oro process. However, people are warned. There are awareness by the town crier, message conveyed through every means and information are dispersed that people, especially women and stranger or non-indigene should stay indoor. The primary point here is that they were warned. They turned deaf ear and have to bear the conequences of their decision.

In a state where there is no law, there is no crime likewise. Those who were sacrificed during Oro rite voluntared themselves or choose to go against the law. Do you blame the court for executing criminals? Or you cast the blame on the criminal who choose to pertain in criminal act?

This boils down to the matter of one's choice and decision. I think this is why we are called "Eniyan". . . .(the one who choose what befores him). There is a game of choices on board. All the choices result to one end of no return called death or let me say human sacrifice.

Ifa is not about Charm. It is more of self-development. Ifa help one to identify self, provide answer to purpose of our existence and ways of achieving it. Our Character is akin to our destiny. Iwa-pele is ultimate in Ifa. Keeping our destiny in harmony with incidence, time and choice is very vital. An inbalance is what lead to chaos. This is why we say Ori inu mi ma ba ti ode mi je. When there is no harmony, there is trouble (ara o ni ro okun be ni koni ro adie).

Eebo or sacrifce is called "paroparo" - Exchange. Nothing in nature comes free. One got to earn with something. There is live on earth because exchange one thing they have to collect their desire. We and trees breathe harmonously and exchange gas for our survival. We sacrifice cabonhydrate to breathe in Oxygen which trees sacrificed. Therefore life continue. . .an imbalance or disharmony means chaos - end of life. This Eebo is Natural and set in motion by the supreme power.

You got to sacrifice to live and procure your desire or you land in Chaos which you will regret. Riru ebo ni gbe ni.

Thanks

UyiIredia:
What does Ogberi mean please ?

Non-initiate

JackBizzle:
Ogberi?

I never hear that one before.

That is the word for non-initiates

JackBizzle:
Calm down. I'm a humanist and an atheist. I am not one of those people that are big on marriage. To me, it is just a contract.


However, you want children and you are a christian. This means that marriage is inevitable for you.


And remember your holy book

Genesis 1:28

Then God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground

Mark 10; 6-9
6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Pastor logicboy.

Spread the gospel

JackBizzle:
With all your Ifa and Osanyin, you cant do blood money?

Fake azz babalawo

I am not a babalawo.

I dont even have Ifa nor do I own Osanyin.

I am still Ogberi.

In Yoruba spiritualism, wealth is not measured with riches (cash or asset). Iwa-pele, Inner peace and sound health means alot to us.

JackBizzle:
I can tell you but I'll have to kill you.


I did a website for a big man. Nothing special.

You go help me build my website be that o.

But I no get chingba.

JackBizzle:
Christ.

Lets leave that chika matter.

How do you make money here? Guy show me way abeg

Reyginus:
Lol. Let me go through the etymological angle since you don't want to. But first let me ask, do you agree that the Etymology of words hold the true meaning of the words? Yes or No.

Do you imply to ask me the etymology of 'spirit'? Spirit is the vital principle of a man, animate and innanimate object.

How does etymology of "spirit" have to do with Christianity? Didnt you guys call rock, stars and moon polytheistic, false god?

Reyginus:
This is not logical any way you want to look at it. You should simply have stretched it and say Pantheism is the only Spirituality. It doesn't work that way bro. You don't just invent definitions and expect people to agree with you when already you've given a definition previously. But maybe I'm wrong.

Let's examine your definition. You say 'spiritualism sees the universe and not just God as a sacred, holy, worthy of awe and venerable object'. I believe you meant Spirituality. Tell me, is this the standard definition? I will advise you understand the Etymology of this word before your answer.

Bros

Did you missed this

To be spiritual is not by praying and going to church. Spiritualism is the understanding of the universe so that it can be a better place to live in.

and

• is the development of a greater connectedness to self and others through relationships and union with community;

I assume you understand the enmboldened. I dont really need to explain to you that community there does not mean human society but the entire universe aand everything that exist therein.

Now that is pantheism, polytheism, naturalism, henotheism and everything that negates christian teaching.

Reyginus:
Okay, let's use your own definition. I agree with it. the Christian God is worthy of Awe. The Christian God is shown Respect. The Christian God is venerated. The Christian is holy according to the adherents. Do you agree or disagree?

Spiritualism sees the universe and not just God as a sacred, holy, worthy of awe and venerable object.

This is not accepted in christianity. Church regard this spiritualism as hectic and idolatory.

JackBizzle:
Money and sex.


Made 50k on one project


Met one coded babe here. Slim, and butter and calm.


Unlike the fat, agbero-ish and Aje pako ishitlove

Jesus

Reyginus:
I think you are properly looking at your words. I mean reading every single word and as a whole. This is your definition:

' Spirituality is the search for the sacred, for that
which is set apart from the ordinary and worthy
of veneration, "a transcendent dimension within
human experience...discovered in moments in
which the individual questions the meaning of
personal existence and attempts to place the
self within a broader ontological context'.

Let's begin from the first claim. The search for the sacred. This simply implies the search for that which is true, the venerated, the divine, the holy. Christians believe that God is the Truth, he's also Divine and is holy. Do you agree to this if you don't tell me why?

Sacred has nothing to do with truth. Something that is sacred is simply worthy of awe, respect and veneration and holy.

Veneration of natural entities and bodies is idolatory in christianity.

Nope?

Reyginus:
Lol. Come on! What then do you define as Spirituality if trying to fine tune one's spirit with that of a supreme spirit is not?

Spirituality has been bastardized and distorted by the church. Lot of people confuse spiritualism with religion.

There are some definitions that can help here.

WHAT IS SPIRITUALITY?


Spirituality is the search for the sacred, for that which is set apart from the ordinary and worthy of veneration, "a transcendent dimension within human experience...discovered in moments in which the individual questions the meaning of personal existence and attempts to place the self within a broader ontological context."

• is an internal process of seeking personal authenticity, genuineness, and wholeness as an aspect of identity development;

• is the process of continually transcending one's current locus of centricity;

• is the development of a greater connectedness to self and others through relationships and union with community;

• is the process of deriving meaning, purpose, and direction in one's life; and

• involves an increasing openness to exploring a relationship with an intangible and pervasive power or essence or center of value that exists beyond human existence and rational human knowing.

Conclusively, spirituality is considered a more personal quality, and is sometimes described as a feeling of connection with everything. Spiritual people are generally open to just about anything as long as it gives them the emotional lift they are looking for, and it tends to be thought of as internal and personal, a 'to each his own' affair. It deals with universal questions of origin, purpose, ethical behavior and destiny. The answers to these questions may take us into other areas of thought, such as science or philosophy or religion. But the questions about what it means to be human — why we are here, how we should act toward self and other, what will eventually become of us and the universe.

christianity has nothing to do with spiritualism. Christianity is all about faith,praying, evangelism and salvation. Tithting, prayer, abluction and other religion rites are not in existence with spiritualists.

In Fela world, To be spiritual is not by praying and going to church. Spiritualism is the understanding of the universe so that it can be a better place to live in.

An Ifa priest study and understand the force of the nature he lives in. An Ifa priest explore the mystery in nature taking cue from natural substances like river, mountain, tress, metals, fire, lightening, people, animals. These effort are adopted for spiritual development and betterment of his/her life. A pastor in the church is all about garnering tithe and praying for heaven that will never come.

In wiki:

Nevertheless, on significant points Christian Protestantism and spiritualism are different. Spiritualists do not believe that the works or faith of a mortal during a brief lifetime can serve as a basis for assigning a soul to an eternity of Heaven or Hell; they view the afterlife as containing hierarchical "spheres," through which each spirit can progress.
Spiritualists differ from Protestant Christians in that the Judeo-Christian Bible is not the primary source from which they derive knowledge of God and the afterlife: for them, their personal contacts with spirits provide that.

That one difference rule christianity out of what we know as spiritualism.

JackBizzle:
The one and only dark knight

Seun jazz work on you I swear.

What is it that draws you back to nairaland?

Reyginus:
Really long time. But then you didn't say how Christianity doesn't talk about Spirituality in contrast to IFA

there is nothing like spirituality (in it original form) in christianity. All we have is church tradition and religioun doctrine make-up by church leaders.

Therefore I dont need to disturb myself with religion docrtines veiling as spirituality.

Reyginus:
.

Rey my good friend. Longest time. . . . How you dey na?

Reyginus:
IFA does not lie but the Bible contains scientific jagons? Ifa promotes spirituality and the bible doesn't? Are you sure about these things?

I am very sure sire!

Alot of traditional medicines have been discovered with the help of Ifa. The knowledge of how to use herbs, leave and animal parts for the purpose of safeguarding our health in a medical way is promoted by Ifa.

On the other round, bible discourage one from using medicine and look up to one sky daddy. Luke was a physician but the gospels speak ill of medicines.

That is medical science.

Ifa does not rely on miracle. Bible does and we know miracles are fantasies.

How did water turn to wine by mere words? How does the cripple walk by mere prayer? How does a blind see by mere faith? How does dead rise up by mere exaltation of God? These are illogical and opposing to natural law.

No miracle in Ifa. If you have a problem, Ifa root out the problem, analyze it and provide method through which these problems can be solved.

It is a known everywhere that ancient and traditional medicine is potent. Modern science indeed authenticated this medicine and approved uses of it. Yoruba got theirs with the help of Ifa, how many medicines have been developed with the help of bible?

I was reading the bible sometimes ago where I found method of curing/cleansing leprosy. That is the greatest fantasy I have ever read.

Ifa authenticate that the earth is spherical and it is moving round the sun (obiri laye). The bible and church told us earth is flat with pillars. And that the star will fall into a smaller earth. If this is not jargon, I dont know what else it is.

Reyginus:
IFA is a spiritual system but the bible is an altered manuscript? Are you sure about this? IFA predates existence and the bible doesn't?

The bible is seriously altered. The coptic bible, greek orthodox and catholic bible is different entirely with numbers of books and documentations. Where is the book of enouch, gospel of judas among others today? We all know the bible is heavily manipulated. This cannot be said with Ifa and it 256 corpus.

Moses initiated the writings of what we know today as bible. Moses lived some thousands years ago. He had the revelation and wrote what he saw. Prior to this, there is nothing like bible. However, Ifa has been here long before existence. It has no author.

Reyginus:
Let's start from these three. Why should I agree to any of these things?

Now you know and should agree.

JackBizzle:
You know how I drop them memes.....as e dey hot!!!

logicboy?

JackBizzle:
***summoning Folykaze***

Thanks for summoning me here.

@ sinto5, Ifa and bible is a compilation of ancient spiritual thoughts and esoteric knowledge. However, bible contain history, philosophy and spiritual sense of the jew while Ifa is a divination system of the Yoruba people. The only similarity is that they are both spiritual compilations.

There are much differences between Ifa and bible than similarities.

Ifa philosophy is conveyed in Oral form while the bible is penned down.

Ifa is a spiritual system while the bible is an alterated religious compilation.

Ifa predate existence and have prints in nature while bible is a document dating back to some thousand years.

Ifa has no author. (asedaye la bala owo). Bible was written down by some few men.

Ifa encompass monotheism, polytheism, pantheism, henotheism and atheism while bible is strictly a monotheistic document of christian.

Ifa is practical, involve observation, examination and preservation of nature while bible is centred on faith without proof.

Ifa does not lie, bible contain lots of historical, scientifical jagoons.

The relatives of Ifa are Iching, Fa, Geomancy and Il-ram (science of the sand). The jew version of Ifa is kabbalar. What is important among this is uniformity. Bible has KJV, coptic, catholic and greek orthodox. There is no uniformity among these versions.


There are more differences but I will leave that for now.

Ifa encourage one to grow spiritually and acquire spiritual enlightenment while bible promote fantasy like salvation.

Fear is conquered in Ifa. Bible inprison one with fear of hell.

Bible have more similarity with vedas and gita or quran. These are written document that promote religion doctrine. Ifa just like Kaballar and Iching encourage spiritual growth and self enlightenment.

tolexy007:
but been an APC member can wash Amechi and the rest off their sins

Can you pls get your glasses and read what you emboldened again.

They should return to PDP where they belong. Been member of APC does not wash them off their sins. The anti-corruption war will bew moved to them either they are in APC or APGA.

We will not miss them rogues

macof:
pls familiarize yourself with the word mythology. even the Greeks called their stories mythology. .. etymological broken down to "Body of Stories" or "Study of Lores"

a story that already employs metaphors and symbolic personification is nothing but myth

Bros everyone know what a myth and figure of speech is. They both are body of story and convey a message but one entails false, imaginary and fantasy stories while the other entails allegory, parable, non-literal and metaphoric truth.

Example of myth is the popular belief that monsters live in the market and trade with human. We all know there is no monster walking with it head in the market. The whole story is imaginary and mythical. No substance of truth or verificable evidence for any of mythical story. It has a synonmys which are fable, fabrications,, tales, fantasy, legend and folklores. Antonyms of myth is truth, verity, etc. From the definition, synonmys and antonmys, we can conclude myth is the samething as opposite of truth.

However, figure of speech contain substance of truth, verificable fact which can be tested and examined. Figure of speech is a figurative language which can be a special repetition, arrangement or omission of words with literal meaning, or a phrase with a specialized meaning not based on the literal meaning of the words. Similes and metaphor and personification are very much alike. They are descibe without diluting the truth but giving it a clearer and understandable picture.

Myth is plain and literal while figure of speech is not.

Now lets bring these lots into Ifa corpus and stories. Ifa account cannot be myth because Orunmila will not tell a lie but will rather express itself in a symbolic and metaphoric manner.

Old time myth have been debunked, destroyed and thrown into trash bin by almighty science. Though myth is a popular belief but can never stand in the face of truth and fact. Figure of speech in it own case will.

The popular belief and myths that states earth is flat has been trashed by fact. Didnt Ifa stated that Earth is spherical (Obiri l'aiye) and it is moving? Has the Yoruba account been trashed like mythical flat earth position of the bible?

You will need to deploy science and have intelligent capacity to decode Ifa. You will finally see for yourself that it contain truths and no lie is rolled up into it because Ifa is not myth but a figurative language of our intelligent ancestors who do better than Eistein.

macof:
Not really but I'm aware Osa Ogunda and Ogbefun are the odu that talk about Oodaye and Ooyelagbo very well.

I also believe in the gap theory. ..I think yoruba have traditions relating to that

I wish to I can listen to the Odus.

However, I strongly disagree on your submission with regard to myth.

Myth is the opposite of truth. There is this verse from Ifa that goes thus; iri tiwili tiwili ni a fi aiye. This statement mean the earth was formed in dew dropplet like. This is basic fact as to planet formation.

Chameleon, snail, fowl and the likes are metaphoric elements used in explaining the creation story. Metaphor is more fatual than myth

macof:
No. if Oduduwa that came with a chain didn't exist then earth as it is today will not exist. I believe what 9jacrip is saying is that oduduwa here is a myth - which is a story important for traditions and rituals.
but doesn't mean things happened the way they are told in the myths ie. Where did Obatala see palm wine before the earth was formed? where did Akuko and snail shell come from? what about the Agemo that came to test the land?

Oduduwa - the myth - beat Obatala to the creation of Ife Oodaye
this myth either inspired the later naming of the two men who fought for the Crown in Ile-Ife or the myth was formed after the civil war between the two men

Do you know any Odu Ifa that speaks about Gap theory (Ooday and Ooyelagbo)?

foreveryours:
Good morning
I still need your assistance in getting a place to learn IFA
Any help pls

If you are in Nigeria, you can get babalawo that will teach you Ifa especially in any town in the south-west.

lawani:
There was an article I read about an ancient ruin in South Africa, a city of over 100 thousand population, apparently built to mine gold, something was installed there to represent the four cardinal points but it has shifted because of Earth's movement and it was possible to calculate how long ago it was properly alligned. Calculations showed over 200 thousand years ago.

The epic of Sumer claims there was an advanced civilization that was wiped out by flood. The pre flood Kings ruled for thousands of years each and their names were recorded in the epic of Sumer King list. They were called the Annunnaki. The story is very full having been written thousands of years ago. The story is referring to Ot u Ife. Atlantis in the Kemitic narrative is Ot u Ife.

After Ot u Ife sank, all the knowledge did not go away at once, it went gradually. So we do not know what our ancestors were capable of. If a society does not buckle up, they lose knowledge gradually. For instance ancient Yoruba could write.

There is this penchance to be saying Olodumare destroyed the Earth, I don't necessarily agree. Our Karma can destroy us, not Olodumare. We have nukes already that can destroy us many times over, we just need to start a religious war, if we finish off ourselves in a nuclear holocaust and only a few thousand people survive, they will build the Earth again and possibly pass on the story that Olodumare destroyed the Earth which will not be right. The Earth was destroyed but not by Olodumare, more by man's foolishness. That was the view of the wise men of Kemitic Egypt about the collapse of Atlantis which I believe is same as Ot u Ife.

The cycle has been going on since Earth became habitable is what I believe. The last time Earth was destroyed, the first place to have a civilization while others were nomads was Ife Ooyelagbo and the capital was shifted from place to place. They had no competitor initially. Hence the title Olofin aiye.

Anybody can bring their perspective but given the passed down stories in Ife, I believe what I rendered. The present people in Ife have no idea of what legacy was passed to them to protect.

There are some dudes on this forum who share the same thought with ya. Someone like Ifeness believe Annunakis were from a far away planet. In their own planet, they had advance technology and were very civilized until after some times, war broke out and the remaining surviving travelled down and colonised planet earth. He asserted that the Annunakis were gold miners who believe gold could be used in some way to make one live long or probably become immotals. So on their course of getting more golds, they engineered their dna with that of some apes and made intelligent humans.

Another person who share your thought is sukkot. He is one crazy guy which I observe his thought is out of this world. He believe Annunakis which he often call children of El turned the planet around with advance scientific development. He believe Egyptian pyramid and the likes were built by these creatures. However, the whole thang was wiped out in a long battle among the gods. That brought an end to that civilasation and the rises to ours.

The summerian books have been in support of this theory. But I will like to know if there is an Ifa verse that support this claim.

9jacrip:


Egbon, e jo e je kin mu ijoko si apa eyin.

With due respect sir, there are lots you need to contribute before we can arrive at the finish line.

At this point, there thread is getting much interesting and na your imo at oye fit add the juice.

9jacrip:
I don't have the verses in my head, I just know it was mentioned. I could ask around to see what I can find.

Lawani has brought us to the limelight. Oodaye is a Yoruba thang. Ifa is our body of knowledge so we need to do our investigations using verses from Odu Ifa.

9jacrip:
I don't know what happened other than the story we both know about Obatala getting drunk from palm wine he found on the floor on his way to carry out the task plus the akuko, yepe, ati baba odudywa to ti ewon ro wa si ife with vulture carrying the sun to the solar system (why its head is bald) and the chameleon taking puctures with its skin to show olodumare.

Funny story

Anyway, this is the first Ife called Oodaye.

9jacrip:
Then the second says there was a flood that wiped out Odudywa's creations. Then he descended again with a chain but this time from Oke Ora down to Ife where he started to rebuild again.

This account points to the destruction of first Ife and the rises of Ife Ooyelagbo.

9jacrip:
BUT

The actual human history says Oduduwa, living with his clan in Oke Ora seized power from Obatala through military whatever, incorporated all independent clans, designed the hierarchical structure and made himself the head.

And finally, the new generation Ile-Ife surfaced.


Boss, the three phase of Ife has been listed out. I will like to wait for the Ifa verses on what they gt to say about this.

Thanks

9jacrip:
The bolded has been my argument.

An absence of this makes the argument null/void and grouped as myth where it belongs.

Oodaye and Ooyelagbo are both in Ifa about creation and re-creation where the same person wins and the same person loses; sort of like a recreation of the same tale.

Anyways, I'll take the back seat as my standpoint can not thrive as far as this discussion goes.

Which back seat? Abeg Uncle come back here. You started it all. . .you've got more to explain.

Lets leave science for now and clear somethings which Ifa and wise people have said.

Your word:

It is said there were 3 phases of Ife.

Ife Oodaye

Ife Ooyelagbo

Ile-Ife

How did you arrive at Ife first and second?

What happened to the first Ife?

What is the cause for the rises of second Ife?

Can you get us some Ifa verse that explain the fall and rise of Ifes?

Thanks

9jacrip:
It wasn't a 'claim'.
It was an explanation suggested as the reason they think creation started with and from them.

The creation story did not say Obatala created Yoruba people only. It said Human (every human being without giving regard to color, shape, tribe or Yoruba only).

9jacrip:
You must think I know Ifa that much?

Yes now. Your Obatala thread makes me think you are one Araba.

9jacrip:
Oda

For something to be factual, there has to be smallest traceable and verifiable evidences.

Ife people claim to be the start of civilization - a myth.

Ife people claim to be the start of civilization with excavated relics showing dates from far back - factual.

Myth can not be regarded as lie or truth. It is just what it is, myth to serve mostly spiritual/ideologucal purposes.

How can you know whether this whole account from Ifa about Oodaye is factual when you dont even know where Oodaye is located not to talk of excavating artifacts from it?

But anyway, has there been any artifact excavated from Ife other than the bronze head found around during the colonial rule?

What is the age of Oranmiyan staff?

9jacrip:
I don't know about the manifestation submission of yours but my own take is; names of characters from the creation story were adopted and given to the people we call Obatala, Oduduwa and co.

*****

9jacrip:
Yes.

Why?

I cant just imagine Awo calling Ifa liar and mythical story teller.

I have Baba at home that can tell me moonlight tale. I never knew Initiate can take Ifa as mythical compilation.

9jacrip:
Then he was birthed by a good odu

How is it good?

My babalawo do tell me my Odu is Ose-Otura.

Enemies plenty left and right.

I want Owonrin. How I go take change am?

9jacrip:
No.
I just don't want to look stupid and further subject Yoruba history to ridicule. The generation before me sold the myth to us thereby creating holes for people to exploit in bad faith. I seek to correct this and bring forth proper history. As much as I am awo, I am also a learned person.

Ok

9jacrip:
OK.
I'm not arguing creation with you, hope you know that? My argument is that we separate myth from
Verified history.

ok

9jacrip:
You do not have to take it literal-ly that sun rises from there.

It refers to civilization and the spread of it.

Ojumo - civilization/founding of other towns and the spread of Ife system which was replicated by all other towns. As well as arts and isese.

It is like using lines like 'dawn of a new era' of course we know it is figurative.

This is what lawani was saying.

A new era, there must an old one there.