₦airaland Forum

thorpido:
You started by letting the whole world know you are a fool because you put that in your words.I can't be bitter,especially not with people like you.I take care of ill people so I understand where people like you are coming from.

You didn't see this scripture below when you decided to quote the scripture;
Answer a fool according to his folly,lest he be wise in his own conceit. (Prov.26:5)
You've got selective amnesia or is it bipolar?

Abeg move to the otherside. Olorun is not Jehovah. . . .you have been schooled

maverickboy:
I'll have to ignore this 'cos no matter what, you and I never gree.

Oga you can run anywhere you like. Yoruba people Only see Obatala and Oduduwa as the creator of this world. That is the fact. Go eat that

peteregwu:
Many are being deceived here. You guys don't even know who God is. Jesus came to reveal who God truly is. He said, "if you have seen me, you have seen my father also." which means that God has revealed himself to us through Jesus, in other words Jesus is God almighty. Now the name of God is Jesus and that is why the Bible says, "at he name if Jesus, every kneel shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father. Philippians 2:10.

It is quite obvious that the reason God reveal his true name and his personality to us is for us not to be deceived. Now in Christian we have salvation and not in angels nor any man or creature, but Jesus alone. Another prove that Jesus is God. We don't have 2 or three Gods. All we have is only one God and the three are one; the father, son(word or Jesus) and the Holy spirit(which is the spirit of Christ).

So friends don't be deceived by Judaism, Islam, or any other religion. This is end time. For the name of Jesus is irreplaceable for any other name. Forget the yahweh and don't be confused and deceived by the agent of darkness.

You see, Christians are the dumbest folks.

The name of your God is Jesus? Wow

Purerealist:
Ofcos they call it eledumare or olodumare or olorun.

Wrong Miss.

Ori eni ni eleda eni.

Decipher that.

One Ori is not Eledumare. It is Obatala who crteaed the earth. . .and everything therein.

maverickboy:
Do Yorubas have no God/Creator, what do they call it?

There is no direct translation for the word God in Yoruba.

The Creator of the world in Yoruba is Obatala and Oduduwa.

The creator of person is Ori.

Ori was created by Ajala.


So tell us sir how these relates with Jehovah.

bigfootdreams:
This is too much talk, if I should agree with you then no one should read any translation of the Bible, even KJV... every Christian should not read the Hebrew/greek versions. The Bible was translated to Yoruba language by Bishop Samuel Ajayi Crowther and I'm sure he knew what he was translating. for example, 'Esu' in the Yoruba tradition is different and plays a different role from 'Satan' in the Jewish or English Bible. But both 'esu & satan' play almost the same role in their various tradition.
Just think about it, how on earth would Bishop Ajayi translate the character of 'satan' in the Bible to the yoruba tradition without involving the character of 'esu' in the Yoruba tradition. Just relate this analogy to the concept of 'Olorun' and 'Yahweh', there's no need to make this a big deal.

Can you pls list out the almost the same role Esu and Satan played?

Esu is the mediator between one Ori and Orishas. When did Satan become mediator between man and God?

hglmkope:
It is important to note that the "art of worship" is based on the state of your heart with whoever you are worshiping. As Christians, do you imagine obatala or any god that the op is referring to whenever you say olorun. Please don't cause confusion, my God is not a God of confusion. As for me, whenever I say "Olorun mi", I think of my Father and my God, the creator of heaven and earth; the one one who has remain faithful to me and others alike despite our unfaithfulness; the one who loved me so much and gave up His son for my salvation.

Do you guys really understand the bible or you create your own tradition outside the bible?

I dont need to drag you into debate but I will pick on the embolden.

The bible stated quoting word from Jehovah who said, "I will exalt my NAME above every other name". How do you understand this statement? Where did Jehovah stated that you should exalt him with other Gods' names?

As a Christian, you need to look toward your God. Calling your God by a Yoruba name fuse in Yoruba spiritualism into your fantasy. No Aborisha either son of the soil or Caribeans call Oogun by another name when they want to worship Ogun. Afterall, they know and are very much aware of the similar attributes between Ogun and Mars. They know the similarities between Amahodia, Thor and Sango but they dont interchange their name in the course of worship.

Why dont you Christians rebuke Venus since it is similar to Lucifer? Why do you rather call Eshu Lucifer when they do not relate? Why dont you rather call Jesus Orunmila?

thorpido:
I know your antecedents.Now you're sounding like the yaba left residents.

Go and take your drugs

Why are you becoming this bitter? Is it because you cant bear the truth?

The bible has some rule of engagement for your types.

2 Timothy 2:23-24
Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,

Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself.


So sheep, you can run along and worship your dead jew but do not try bringing it into Iseese

thorpido:
Anyone can write fiction so i understand you perfectly.
I did a modification for you,don't forget to thank me.

Rev 22:28

If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.


Christians like you are really dumb. The bible is right calling you fools sheep. . .you are dumb just like a sheep

thorpido:
Olorun means the Lord of heavens.
It doesn't matter how some people interpret it in their ignorance,the meaning of the word is what is important.

There is only one God and He is Olorun - Lord of heavens.

There is nothing like there is only one God.

The bible stated in 1 Cor 8:5 that there are many God and Lord both in heaven and earth.

The bible stated that each nation shall walk in the name of their God. Olorun is the title for Eledumare which is a Yoruba God. Christians should go with their nameless beast.

And who said their is only one Lord of heavens? Are there no Elders in heaven? Are there no queen of heavens? Christians are dumb

solid3:
So what's the Yoruba name for Yahweh?

Nonsense.

There is no Yoruba name for Yahweh and that does not mean you should call Yahweh Olorun. They are not same personality.

The fact that Sango share the same atribute with Amahodia and Thor does not make them the same. This is the point you christians are missing.

thorpido:
Have the same attributes?
What a Christian needs is understanding.Olu-orun or Olorun means Lord of the heavens.Now how you use it or what it means to you has to do with understanding.

Jesus teaching one day said,'ye worship ye know not what but we know for salvation is of the jews'.Again Jesus said,'ye have not known Him but I have known Him for I came out of Him'.There is a Supreme Being and many believe there is.Knowing Him is a different thing entirely.

It's not about the 'name', it's about having an understanding of Whom He is.When I praise Olorun,I'm praising the Lord of heavens,the One Who sent Jesus?Zeus didn't send Jesus,Jupiter didn't send Jesus!
So you see it's praising with understanding.

This is arrant nonsense. You Christians are very pathetic elements.

Even from the bible, Jehovah declared that he will make his name known to his people. He didnt instruct you guys to go about stealing and adopting other God's names.

"Call upon his name,” states the Bible. "Make known among the peoples his dealings. Make mention that his name is put on high.”— Isaiah 12:4. Did he mentioned that you should know him with other Gods' names?

Jesus used God’s name. In prayer, Jesus told Jehovah: “I have made your name known to them [Jesus’ disciples] and will make it known.” Why did Jesus make the divine name known to his disciples? Why didnt he adopt other names like Sango or Thor?

The Bible says: “Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”— Romans 10:13. God is not the samething as Olorun. They are quite different.


When you praise Olorun, your praises go to Olorun and not Jehovah. When you praise your Ori (Eleda), your praises go to Ori and not Jehovah.


I also read one of the crap you posted. If salvation si of the jew, why do you follow the jew? Are you a jew? Is Yoruba now part of Jew? Some Christians don sell their brain for salvation fantasy. Wait, what are you been saved from sef?

peteregwu:
The op has some weed in his head. Why don't we ask him what is God in yoruba? You can tell me yahweh has no yoruba name. In igbo, God is Chineke, so what are you talking about. Abel don't mind this set of Judaism group of people. Mtcheeeeew.....

There is no direct translation for the word God in Yoruba. That some people adopted 'Olorun' which mean 'the chief of heaven' does not mean it is God of the Christians.

God is from the greek word theos. It refer to a revered someone or something. The bible called Judges God. The bible called Money God. The bible called Humans God. Some people consider River, trees, animals or mountains as their God. This is very correct.

While all those entities can be reffered to as God, no Yoruba person will refer to them as Olorun while because Olorun is not the direct translation of God.

Olorun is a supremacy title for Eledumare. Orisha are God but not Olorun. Eledumare held the supreme post among other Gods. That cannot be said of your bloodthirsty beast which you worship.

Yoruba Christians should know that stealing Yoruba words will only bastardizes Christianity. The evidence is glaring. Christianity is dying in Yorubaland not because the number of Church is reducing but because Isese is crippling into the church. Have you for once noticed white garment chruch are now embracing in Iseese?

The distortion, corruption and bastardization of Christianity rises immediately the church choose to translate original hebrew and greek manuscripts into another tongue. Some ancient words do not have direct meaning in other tongues so the closest words are adopted which leads to loose of the original message. A critical example is John 1:1; different scholars have tried to ascertain if 'the word was really, a god or God or a divine one.

Yoruba Christians are one of the worst brainwashed fellas. Alot of words were adopted from tradition. Some praises of God were adopted from Ifa verse. Has anyone noticed this song. . .Oyigiyigi, alade Orun. This Oriki is praising Eledumare through stone which does not relate to Yahweh of the Christians. To the Christians, this is Idolatory.

Eledumare is not Yahweh but though is the name of Yoruba supreme God. Eledumare has lot of sons and wives according to Ifa. Eleduamre does not have a dedicated Shrine or Temple, He does not interfare with human activities like Jehovah. The nature of Eledumare is left because it is not understood. Some Church confused Eledumare supremacy in Yoruba traditional spiritualism for Yahweh. They are different Deities.

Another issue is Eshu which they mistook for Lucifer. Some even pray to their Ori and Eleda confusing it to Olorun. Eleda is Ori and it is a separate deity but Christians fuse all these together as one. . . .they really dont know what they want and who to reach for what they want.

Reyginus:
Mr Kaze, why are you doing this? You mean Leviticus and Christianity? Deuteronomy and Christianity?

There is no christianity outside the bible.

Reyginus:
But then Spiritists are those who communicate with the dead. You expect the bible to encourage that? I don't see how this contradicts Spirituality. Yes, spiritism is spirituality but religion is also. And in Deuteronomy too it is simply saying that their ways are evil. It's just like you saying that Christian ways shouldn't be followed. It doesn't mean your Ifa lacks Spirituality

This argument of yours lacks what we call logic.

The basic stand of spiritual circle is that there is an existence of a vital principle or force, which is believe animate person. According to their stance, there are dual nature to person. These are the spiritual nature and the physical/material nature. The medium of linking the two nature is what we call spiritualism. A spiritist sees a connected network between the nature and decides to use it for his own growth.

The bible capture a wrongview as spiritulist do not communicate only with the dead. They communicate with animal, plant and even inanimate objects like river, mountain and other natural element. Pls note before you misquote me again, communication here is not verbal or related to human or sign language. Communication here involve mediation, understanding and perceiving of essense, true nature of these things. In the quatum science, this is called observation of vibration/frequency as everything is vibrating and in motion. So we are not completely dead.

In Yoruba spirituality, communication with the dead one is called Egungun. The dead are not really dead but passed on to another realm. Odu Oyeku is the corpus that emphazise on death. And the Yoruba people will rather say "emi oku ti re koja" meaning the breathe spirit of the dead person has transend to the otherside.

In Yoruba spirituality just like other Spiritual circle, we do not believe that the work like going to church or mosque every now or then, paying tithe, or evangelizing or faith of a mortal during a brief lifetime can serve as a basis for assigning a soul to an eternity of Heaven or Hell. We view the afterlife as containing hierarchical "spheres," through which each spirit can progress. The knowledge of God are derieved from bible in the Christian perspective. A spiritualist derieve theirs through personal contacts with spirits.

In Oyeku meji, the flesh is seperated from the breathe (animating or vital principle) and never to meet again. The flesh rot and got destroyed while the spirit pass on to the spiritual realm. This is the basis of Spirituality.

However, Chirtsian and the bible negate the spiritualist ground. The bible according to Job 19:26, And though worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God. This asserts that there would bodily ressurection of dead, and a physical, not merely spiritual, afterlife. This view is self-evidently incompatible with spiritualism.

Christianity at every junction become incompatible with spiritualism. The bible gave a stern warning against Christians from engaging in spiritualism. It is on record that prophets and kings were rebuked for partaking in spiritualism. In the church, it is outrightly forbidden. What I dont understand is why you are hell-bent in an effort to fuse spirituality in religion.



And another fallacy of yours where you said Ifa instruct people not to folllow christian ways. You might have missed where I mentioned these in my previous post:

Spirituality create a world of one. Religion create thousands of world.

Religion is about who is in and who is out. Creating a gap between those in the institution and those outside. Spirituality is about all including plants, animals and inanimate objects.

Now read the words in quote, what do you think they mean?

Ifa just like every spiritual circle does not discourage anyone from partaking in other religion activities. Pastor have in pocession Ifa. Imams do have it. Secularists do have it. There is a popular saying, Ona kan o wo oja. Ifa encourage one to study other religion and gives room for choice. . .

I took a friend from nairaland to a Babalawo. He was told to gba'fa. He feel uneasy with that option because he is a Christian and have a devouted wife who is a christian too. The babalawo told him point blank that Ifa does not stop one from partking in their current religion activities. There is freewill and we dont hide it. Follow your heart.

There is this song in Yoruba:

Oro ile wa la wa nse o (2x)
Esin kan o pe (oh eh)
Esin kan o pe ka wa ma s’oro
Oro ile wa la wa nse o

Translate:

Behold Oro! The ritual of our forebears!
Oro hampers no faith
Let no faith hamper Oro
Behold Oro! The ritual of our forebears!

Religion Tolerance should be learn from Ifa and Spiritualsim. This will bring one world of peace and lovee.

Reyginus:
You know why I'm asking all these. I'm trying to see the difference between your Ifa practise and Christianity's. Ifa Corpus is like the Bible. Omo Awo is a new Christian convert. Agba Awo are the believers who are elders and teachers. Your nuts is prayer. So what else do you do they don't do. Why is yours, that involves incantations, rituals and self examination Spirituality but Christianity's involving prayer or incantations, rituals, and self examination not Spirituality?

1. Nuts is prayer. Nuts is called Ikin. . This is divination tools. Babalawo will not ask anyone to fast and pray. Who do you think we should pray to?

The word for prayer is Adura in Yoruba. Babalawo carefully avoid using that word but rather choose "be", that is appeal.

2. Ifa is a personal thing. This is the component of spirituality. Christianinty is an organised, communion issue. That makes Christianity a religion.

The difference here is that Ifa is an individual spiritual system while Christianity is a communion belief system.

Reyginus:
What's Ese Ifa and who are Omo Awo and Agba?

Bros. . .Some Yoruba words do not have direct meaning in English.


Ese Ifa is something like verse from Ifa corpus.

Omo Awo mean a young initiate.

Agba Awo are the baba who are initited in Ifa society a very long time

Reyginus:
Lololol. Chai! See lies o. Okay let me do it again.

'of or concerning the spirit" ( ESPECIALLY IN
RELIGIOUS ASPECTS), from Old French spirituel
, esperituel (12c.) or directly from a Medieval
Latin ecclesiastical use of Latin spiritualis "of or
pertaining to breath, breathing, wind, or air;
pertaining to spirit," from spiritus "of breathing,
of the spirit'.

I don know you he don tay. You are that dubious Rey since Sango and energy debate who like going in endless cycle.

What you wrote there contain two substances. One is a definition while the oher one is etymology. I shredded your definition when you were attempting to bring religion into it. Religion has nothing to do with spirituality. That is my point.

And here is some ref:

The term "spirituality", as contrasted with "religion", which derives from the Latin ligare or "belief systems that bind groups", derives from the the term wind or breath, generally meaning individual animation. This seems to translate to the fact that religion is a group belief system, whereas spirituality is more of an individualist belief system.

In an ancient etymological sense, as over 72 percent of modern religions are derived from Ra theology, the term spirituality seems to be a syncretism of "ka" and "breath of Ptah", in contrast to "ba" the immortal part that gets judged on the afterlife scale of Maat.

Religion

A common modern definition of how modern “elite” American scientists, i.e. those at top universities, see religion as qualitatively different from spirituality include the response “religion is institutionalized dogma” or “religion is organized against individual inquiry”, which is said, according to American science culture sociologist Elaine Ecklund, to translate to the effect that religion is the rule of powerful people that propagate false information that is not true and that individual spiritual inquiry protects people from groupthink.

http://www.eoht.info/page/Spirituality

The differences between religion and spirituality is glaring there.

Spirituality is not institutionalized like Religion.

Spirituality is an individual belief system. This oppose religion which is organised.

Spiriuality have no room for codes, ethic and conducts, religion have generalized rules and regulation.

Religion is about who is in and who is out. Creating a gap between those in the institution and those outside. Spirituality is about all including plants, animals and inanimate objects.

Spirituality makes us see ourselves as and become God. Religion tell us about God and us as subjects.

Spirituality makes us to belief from our experience, relligion maes you belief in other people experience.

The central focus of religion is faith and belief. Spirituality makes us a being.

Religion is a set of dogma, sets of rules and behaviors. Spirituality is what you feel without being told and without having to belong to something in particular.

Spirituality create a world of one. Religion create thousands of world.


If you can see these differences and still not withdraw the religion crap you infused into that definition above, then you are not to be taken serious never again.



Concerning the etymology, I dont have problem with it until I found out you can not relate it with Christianity.

Reyginus:
Christianity tries to reconcile the man both meditation, self examination and spirit connection to a deity. A yes or No will do. Or you can even dispute the claims.
Or give me the original etymology.

How is Christianity relating to Spirituality when the bible itself raised a stern warning against christians from practising spiritualism? Leviticus 19:31, Leviticus 20:6 and Deuteronomy 18:9-13.

The bible forbids spiritualism. And therefore, christianity has notning to do with spirituality.

Reyginus:
I relate with the bible by studying the words and applying them. How do you relate with your nuts?

Mediate on Ese Ifa and apply them to one live. This is for personal

When the nuts are casted, Omo Awo will recant the ese, and "ki" Ifa. The Agba there will interprete it and you are to apply it. And this is for consultants.

Reyginus:
You still miss the question. How do you relate with your divination through nuts?

What do you think the divination nuts are? Some mythical being huh?

How do you relate with your bible?

Reyginus:
Lol. Thrashed? How? By saying that what is spiritual is not spirituality or by disagreeing with the definition of Spirituality? The word has been abused. Lol. What's the original then?

Halting you from bringing in spirituality into religion with some word play game. You are trashed.

I did not dispute the etymology you presented. I only asked you to align the etymology with Christian teaching which you cant. This indicate you are confused about Spirituality and the fact that it is distant from Christianity.

logoscope:
I've seen a first hand experience. It was one in which they were trying to fish out who stole a phone. It goes thus: "if blahblahblah stole the phone, let the Bible spin". For perfect description, imagine something in the shape of letter "T" protruding out of the Bible, tied with thread and then two people hold the edges of the letter "T". Then the thing spins accordingly.

I can't be sure weather it was an awesome trick or not because we were all made to swear with it that in the next 7 days, the person would go mad. But nobody went mad and the "Bible spinning thing" revealed that the thief was in that house and they were even able to get the persons' name.

Those that do this bible-chain stuff are white garment christians.

I dont usually see those people as christians. They are more like Lukumi disgusing as Catholic

logoscope:
Okay, okay. what about the other part I said: Such as cutlass proof,
appearing and disappearing, seeing sm1 through a
white cloth, e.t.c

I will not tell you to believe any of those things. The best form of knowledge is experience. However, what you listed there is what we call "supernatural".

Supernatural can be define as an occurence which have no natural explanation or cannot be observe within frame of scientifical/known natural laws.

Supernatural occurence is real. You can experience it yourself. But I will oblidge you not to accept my words till after you have your own unexplanable experience.

I dont have charm or possess those supernatural devices because I have no condition where they are needed. I can however testify that there are potent charm becasue I have experienced it first hand. I am thinking of sharing my testimonies soon. This is all stories. . . .but I understand you cannot make a valid conclusion with my stories. A first hand experience will convince ya

Goodluck with that

Reyginus:
I'm hundred percent sure he understands. The problem is that he's already made up his mind on what to accept. To even begin, the origin and history of the English word is Christian and Cultic.

Oga refute my points if you find any wrongs in it. I do not make up my mind. I have critically examine both sides and find out spirituality has been distorted and bastardiced by religionist like you. The fact must be lay down.

Tell us how Christianity is a spirituality.. Maybe you should come from another side. The definition and etymology attempt has been trashed as what you presented does not have any correlation with Christianity and Spirituality been on the same path.

Reyginus:
Lol. Through which means do you relate to Ifa? How do you do it?

By casting divination chain (Opele) or nuts (Ikin). The pattern that surface must be understood. And further interpretation will be infused.

This is more like testing your body temp with a medical device, understanding the test result and having ability to interprete your result. The only matter of difference between medical device and Ifa is that one is technical and the other is spiritual.

I dont personally have my Ikin Ifa though my Awo is disturbing me to get one. Those who have their Ikin needs to personaly relate with it. They do not need communual service or congregate in a bulding with other Awo before they can relate with their Ifa. Samething goes with Ori. . . .this is individual Orisha, the spark of consciousness and the Original self. Connecting Ori Inu with Iponri is a personal task. This will make us grow spiritually and know who we are, why we are here and how to reach our aims.

There no rule, doctrine, ethic or code at arriving this spiritual height in Ifa. This is what made up what we call spirituality. To know your self is a task and if you succeed then you will become an Orisa Akunlebo.

Christians are selfless "wannabe" who lost their selfness in sin and think beliving in one dead Jew is the Lord and Saviour, and following his way of life will restore this selfness in a new heaven.

logoscope:
But there is a scientific reason why this works. I'm mean eating of food and application of fertilizer. There is nothing mystifying about it. What I'm concerned about is events that seems to defile physical laws. Such as cutlass proof, appearing and disappearing, seeing sm1 through a white cloth, e.t.c

Who says Science negates spirituality?

Science is a component part of spirituality. Are you aware of Alchemy (Spirituality) and Chemistry (Science)? Do you know Astrolatry and Astronomy? Do you know agriculture is a spiritual act before modernity comes?

Fela to be spiritual is not by praying and going to church. Spiritualism is the understanding of the universe so that it can be a better place to live in. Now if science entails understanding of the universe, isnt that componnent part of Spirituality?

Tufanja:
I am wondering if Folykaze really doesnt understand Reyginus or that he is just acting it....
Reyginus point is crystal clear to me....

What is his point that is clear to you?

That guy is trying to trap me in a cirlce. . .he is wild.

Reyginus:
Lolololololololol. You are not really honest. Let me help your number four. The etymology is simply telling you that Spirituality has to do with the Spirit, the inner man and it can Religious or Not Religious. Fault me. You can also get us your Etymology of the word.

Bros. . .

You are finding it hard to do away with your misconcepts.

Spirit mean breathe or wind. Spirit can be defined as the vital principle that animinate person. This has nothing to do with inner man.

Religion is a group belief system, while spirituality is more of an individualist belief system. One is personal while the other is not. One is binded by law while the other come as will and or best experience. Therefore, these large differences cannot make both spirituality and religion the same.

I gave you the etymology of spirituality. I stated that spirituality comes from the word spirit which has it root in the latin word spiritualis meaning wind or breathe. , generally meaning individual animation.

You are confusing soul (inner man) and spirit. They are two different things though sometimes used interchangably but stil have different meaning.

Christianity is not an individual thing thereofre cannot be regarded as spirituality.

This cannot be said of Ifa. Ifa is more personal. My relationship with my Ori, mediation in Igbodu or Ojubo, and engagement with Orisha is very personal. My wife, parent and even priest cannot get involve. There is no lay down rule or conduct. Everything boild down to will, choice, experience and personal evaluation. This is why it is a pure spirituality unlike Christianity which has been bastardized with doctrines, church tradition and manipulations

logoscope:
I seems you are knowledgeable on the Yoruba religion. First are spirits real? Do rituals actually work? Cos I could walk up to any random person, tell him/her is possessed with an evil spirit and cast it out with profound physical effect (super cool trick). Or pour water from a jug till it empty and simply refill the jug by blessing it (another super cool trick).

What do you understand as reality?

Ritual works. The daily ritual we human and animal make to the god called "Olubobotiribo" provide us physical growth and strenght. Olubobotiribo is mouth. The sacrifice we give it the food we eat. And we gain energy and chemicals to boost our growth, brain and strenght.

This is why I do define Sacrifice as Nourishment. You give out meal either into your belly or a natural entity called God. There wil always be an equal reaction which will be your own gain.

Our Fathers feed Mother Earth (Iyale) with leaves, pieced fruit, seed and tuber. They give earth waste of animal and blood in form of ritual to appeal the earth with the expectation to havest more in later future. What they do is called Natural fertilization. So we know how large the harvest would be after they have made their sacrifice (apply fertilizer) to the soil. To the traditionist, the sacrifice has been accepted and works fine.

Trick here is meant for entertainment. Eshu is the master of tricks. This has nothing to do with Ifa

Reyginus:
Lol. I hope after providing the etymology of spirituality you'd have a LoGiCaL defense not some statements saying nothing. He's already making a mistake by thinking Spirituality is opposite of Religion. But I will provide it still.

Here it is: And Read. Read. Think. And Think. Except you are already made up on what to accept.

'of or concerning the spirit" (ESPECIALLY IN RELIGIOUS ASPECTS), from Old French spirituel , esperituel (12c.) or directly from a Medieval Latin ecclesiastical use of Latin spiritualis "of or pertaining to breath, breathing, wind, or air; pertaining to spirit," from spiritus "of breathing, of the spirit".

Do you agree with this if you don't tell me the etymology?

You are very manipulative in your argument. You went and brought out distored definition fit into what you want me to see (religion)

The embolden is the real deal Rey.

Your presented etymology buttress my points further. Here are the points:

1. The embolden word 'especially' shows you are not providing a sincere and traditional definition of spirituality. Therefore, the first coming definition is one sided, not traditional or original and cannot be accepted.

2. The word 'especially' there makes your whole definition not acceptable. Especially is employed when one want to single out a thing, or situation over others. So what you provided is heavily distorted, one sided, not realistic and cannot be accepted.

3. Etymology of a word got lost when you define the said word from a particular angle, perspective, or aspect. A very good example is the word worship. Etymologically, worship simple mean acknowledging the worth of someone or something. But when you define worship from the christian aspect or perspective, we arrive at this definitions - the act of showing respect and love for a god by praying with other people who believe in the same god; and - The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed. Can you see the gap between etymology and christian perspective of worship? What has 'acknowledging worth of something' got to do with communual prayer or ceremonies? Do you now see that perception from one particular angle distort, dillute and redress the original or traditionall or root meaning of a word? So Rey, your definition and etymology do not align and cannot be accepted.


4. I dont really have problem with your presented etymology. But what does the etymology have to do with christianity? What are the relationship between the etymology of spirit and Christianity?

5. I am not making any mistake when I said religion is not spirituality. Religion is from the latin religionem meaning bond between man and God. Another latin word is ligare meaning bind. So we can define religion as a belief system that binds some groups together. This is opposing to spirituality from the word spirit which has it root in the latin word spiritualis meaning wind or breathe. , generally meaning individual animation. This seems to translate to the fact that religion is a group belief system, whereas spirituality is more of an individualist belief system.

Christianiny is a group belief system which is religion. Ifa is an individualist belief system which makes it spirituality.

Christianity as a religion contain codes, ethic, rules and regulation, this cannot be said of Ifa which makes it a spirituality.

The most important thing here is individual spiritual experince over brotherhood of christ.

Reyginus:
Do you agree that Etymologies are true of anything or you don't agree? Let's not confuse ourselves.

You are the one driving us back and forth.

I agree etymology capture the true meaning of a word. I have said this severally and moved away from this. If you have a point to prove here, you can proceed by providing the etymology of 'spirituality' and tell us what it has to do with Christianity.

My point is, Christianity is not a form spirituality. Christianity is a religion which is opposite of spirituality

Reyginus:
What a logical contradiction. On one hand it captures true meanings of words but it doesn't capture Spirituality for Christianity which is a word. How do you do this? Where do you even think the Term emanated? Study some history and reply this.

Contradiction?

Christianity is a religion and not a spirituality.

Religion is not in anyway related to spirituality.

Get that