₦airaland Forum

lawani:
What do you want me to explain? If you have questions, I will answer them within the horizon of my understanding while others shed more light with their own understanding.

Everything you posted is related to the gap theory which explain that the world was once created by the Gods and civilization was already in progress. But at a point, the whole civilization was destroyed by the Gods and the whole planet was leveled and left to ruin. So later after some eons, the supreme God charged the gods to recreate the planet.

Gap Theory

The gap theory is the view that God created a fully functional earth with all animals, including the dinosaurs and other creatures we know only from the fossil record. Then, the theory goes, something happened to destroy the earth completely—most likely the fall of Satan to earth—so that the planet became without form and void. At this point, God started all over again, recreating the earth in its paradise form as further described in Genesis. The gap theory, which is distinct from theistic evolutionand the day-age theory, is also called old-earth creationism, gap creationism, and the ruin-reconstruction theory.

http://www.gotquestions.org/gap-theory.html

The difference here is that you called the fall of satan in Gap creationism fall of Meteors. I think ifeness share this kind of view.

And this what I got from internet concerning Ife-Oodaye and Gap theory.

A historian, Olu Ademulegun, in his book, ‘Who is Oduduwa?’ “The first creation, which was Ife Oodaye, was destroyed by flood due to conflicts and excesses of the gods. This had a semblance with the forty-day Biblical flood story. The second creation, therefore, took place after the flooding and it was called Ife “Ooyelagbo, which means Ife of the survivors and, its creation was by Oduduwa as one of the surviving sky (celestial) gods”.

So Lawani, I can humbly say you got some points.

@ 9jacrip, the reason why I said your argument was related to that of lawani is because your statement on the first and second Ife points to gap theory.

How is Oodaye the first? Why do we have second Ooye?


Lawani. . .I will like to know if Oodaye and the gap theory can be substantiated. Was there any record or findings that prove there has been some civilazation in the past which was destroyed? Is there any evidence there was worldwide flood? Can you proof some of your claim with Ifa verse, scientific findings?

9jacrip:
It was in response to your post seeking to investigate if world/life/human existence started at Ife.

And you believe those in the ancient Ife thinks no other people exist. This is an unsubstantial claim.

9jacrip:
Where I wan see am

Quote some Ifa verse and point out the answer.

9jacrip:
Right.
You do understan they are at parallels by operation abi?

Science deals with material facts.

Energy is more spritual and immaterial. The material world is made up immaterial and spiritual energy according to quatum mechanism.

So yes, this is all parallel.

9jacrip:


Your dictionary is very wrong, what dictionary is this anyways?

I may have to say the definition you posted is more of a literary definition. You may have to hit history dictionaries or encyclopedia for better understanding of myth because from it greek source, greek basically means story.

I know myth has to do with story but what kind of story is it?

Factual story?

Unfounded story?

Anything unfounded is much like fable, tale, fiction, lie and fantasy.

9jacrip:
I hear you here but I've cited an example of 2 versions of the existence of each character in Ifa. The heavenly and the human, it is up to you to find how to reconcline or separate both where necessay.

For me, I would rather separate what seeks to explain spirituality from history so I do not hit a brickwall in the course of my journey to develop in Ifa/Isese.

The human Orisha were manifestation of the heavenly ones.

We can at best call this incarnation or body vessels which the heavenly force expresses itself. They are one.

PS: are you really an Awo?

9jacrip:
You're welcome daddy.

I remember Hubert Ogunde tonight. I thnk his Odu is Ose-otura. He loves single about it.

9jacrip:
It will mess up your research and give folks holes to exploit to dislodge your entire findings.

Are you afraid of criticism?

9jacrip:
No, we only need to give it a clear cut definition of term for a better contextual usage going forward.

Ifa words, Yoruba creation account/story is much better.

9jacrip:
You incorporated science, so I'll ask you, by Geography, also a body of knowledge within science, do you think the sun rises in Ife (in the heart of west)?

See this bross turning this whole lots on my head!

I have searched everywhere for the sunrise thing. I cant find anything that points to Ife as the place where the sun rise from first.

What could be the english word for ibi Ojumo ti n mo wa?

@ Lawani is making some contribution. I think we need to look at some sides of his argument.

His argument is somewhat related to 9jacrip submission when he said Oodaye is the first settlement while Ooyelagbo is the second settlement. This is pointing to gap theory.

I think I have read something relaated to this once but I throw it away because it bringing the bible and Isese together.

@ lawani, can you explain more on this your contribution?

9jacrip:
I'm saying it must have been upon or after contact not like Ifa prophecied like most people make it seem.

The whole arguement started with this comment from you:

Ife people didn't know other folks existed in other places till Oduduwa's era. They were just caught up in their own world and thought it was the only and beginning for others.

I disagreed with that and stated Ifa acknowledge existence of other people.

9jacrip:
Lol

Learned kini? Baba, emi o mo nkan kan o. Discussing this with you itself makes me feel like I'm stepping beyond my limits.

Limit ke? I was thinking you will give me straight answer na.

9jacrip:
Are we incorporating science thag deals with material facts now?

Science is a body of knowledge.

Ifa is also a body of knowledge.

So no clear cut here.

9jacrip:
Hmmmn.

Alagba Folykaze, eyin na ni e ma bawa research boya Oodaye is Ile-Ife o. Would be an interesting find sha.

I think we need to ask questions like this.

If I know what the answer is, I wouldnt have opened a thread for it.

9jacrip:
The irony here is a learned elder chose to see Myth as a lie rather than for what it is - a spiritual explanation of things.

lol.

Do not make me pick up dictionary

9jacrip:
Oda

Says egbon Foly.

Myth is synonymous with spiritual explanation of history or ideology.

Myth

1. a traditional but unfounded story that gives the reason for a current custom, belief, or fact of nature

2. a false idea or belief

Synonyms: fable , legend , mythos

Related Words allegory , parable ; fabrication , fantasy ( also phantasy), fiction , figment , invention ; narrative , saga , story , tale , yarn

9jacrip:
For a lie to have a foot hold then there must be truth its partner. If you see the myth of cock, oduduwa, sand and water as a myth (lie) then what is the truth version (from the spiritual context).

The Yoruba creation account is never a myth to me. I have never call it a myth just because it is not.

9jacrip:
No, Ose Tura

hmmm.

Ose-otura olugboun awo.

Thanks

9jacrip:
You do the math.

Would you rather try convincing the material world that relies heavily of evidences with the spiritual story of Oduduwa.

Or

You would rather convice the world of the Oduduwa who had children and with evidences to support.


It is your choice.

I rather kil two birds with a stone

9jacrip:
I'm creating a division from spiritual and the human histories.

The penchant of Ife/Yoruba to hold on to spiritual verses of history is why Bini and Oyo have attempted shots at Ife on several occasions.

Egbon, a summary of what I'm saying is:

There are spiritual accounts in Ifa - Myth.

There are actual verifiable accounts in Ifa - human history.

Hence, there's no lie in either, we just need to chant spiritual verses during divination or rituals while we enlighten people to actual history during discussions or research.

Maybe we need to stop using the word myth.

Now on a serious biz.

Ife is called 'Ibi Ojumo nti mo wa' meaning where the dawn starts from.

Do you think the sun rises here or let me say dawn starts first in Ile-ife?


This can help us

9jacrip:
The second emboldened:

Tapa and maybe Fulani are our neighbour (Oyo) so there's nothing new here. The whites and co are those I'm not sure about but I hear you there.

What are you saying Uncle?

I am not arguing contacts with you but that Ifa acknowledge other people who are not and share no history with Yoruba existence.

9jacrip:
I really won't like to take the argument into the realm of where civilization started or if it was Ife and if Ifa mentioned other peoples - why? Because I have no knowledge in this aspect and would rather follow you and see what I can learn or else I'll be taking you in circles rather than helping the argument develop, I hope you understand.

This man won push this matter for my head. Lol.

You are learned than I am. Oju e la n wo Baba.

Pangeae was centered in Africa. Reseach held that Man originated from Africa. The popular garden of Eden is said to be situated in Africa. Also, our creation story stated that origin of man started in Ile-ife, a location in Africa. Everything is centered on Africa. Africa is a very big landmass so the question is where exactly in Africa?.

We all know the origin of man Points Africa. Some said the exact location is Ethiopia. Yoruba creation account noted that Ife Oodaye is this place. Ile-Ife too is often refered to Oodaye but nevertheless, Oodaye is here in Africa. So we need to know if Oodaye is our Ile-ife in Osunsatet or somewhere in Ethiopia or other part of Africa.

The irony here though is that an initiate believing Ifa lied and Oodaye is myth.

9jacrip:
Finally, let me add that, Ifa kept record of the past and still keeps record of the present. How new verses get encoded into Odu is what I do not know and never thought of asking. So if Ifa talks about Arab, Fulani, Tapa and European slave trade then it must have been incorporated during the period of contact with these people. Like it is in modern sciences, oniseguns experiment everyday with new leaves, animal parts/blood, positions, time of the day/night to develop new ogun which are then entered into Ifa after it has been proven/tested variously.

So, ifa mentioning these people must have been upon contact or afterwards.

Ya I know

9jacrip:
P.S: all the people I mentioned are spiritual elders, hence the myth and actual history are both important to them. For people who want to construct actual history, myth is usually disregarded. As I said before, myth is the basis of spiritualism in Ifa, it challenges you to attain certain levels the deities reached in mythical stories. Wanting to construct history with these myth will make one look stupid and insane.

myth is synonymous to lie and false tale.

9jacrip:
Ifa is not stupid, this is why it carries with it 2 versions of each deity.

There was Osun the lady that came down to earth with irunmole, mother of Ose-Tura (Esu's Odu).

There was Osun the lady that married Sango in Oyo which people are aware of.

There was Oduduwa, the sky traveller who came to earth.

There was Oduduwa who lived in Oke Ora and fought known battle with Obatala.

There was Obatala who drank wine and forgot his heavenly task.

There was Obatala who indeed lived and has temples in the iranjes mentioned in Ifa.

There was Esu whom Osun birthed.

There was Esu in Ilare whose compound is still there today.

There was Orunmila who worked with Olodumare in heaven.

There was Orunmila who lived in Ife and ended up in Ire-Ekiti that people knew.

The list is endless, you can pick what part you want to apply in constructing your history.

I though Odi meji is Odu that tells the story of Eshu....

Are you then assuming Oduduwa who came down on a chain does not exist but the one lived in Ife, Oranmiyan father existed?

Are you creating division for what is true and false?

Do you think Ifa has ever lied?

9jacrip:
@ the first emboldened: you cannot 'consult' a deity to know how to propitiate it or anything. Only options available are if one of the initiates goes into trance and the deity speaks through the person, or you ask the people who are knowledgeable to school you or finally, you ask ifa.

Aworo Orisa are learned when it comes to propitiating an Orisha. An Aworo is not just a random person but someone who has been chosen by the Orisha itself. In some places, they are called Iyawo Orisha. They receive message from the Orisha dircetly through trance without consulting any Ifa priest.

9jacrip:
You do not consult with orisa even with dida obi or owo eyo. Only Ifa contains the items, process/steps and needed chants when propitiatkng a deity.

I think you understand that aspokeperson can never not tell about his boss more than boss himself?

Ifa is the voice of every Orisha. It talks about their story but not more than the Orisha itself.

9jacrip:
And you cannot go to Ogun to want to learn, you'd still have to go back to Ifa except you ask Ogun initiates or hear from a person who enters egun.

There is an exception here.

Ogun is still the master of hunting game. Oko has the field while Babaji has the animals.

The masterstroke goes to Ogun for hunters. You said it yourself.

9jacrip:
Osanyin the human was known for his herbal skill, so was Obaluaye. Their knowledge of herbs was recorded in Ifa - Osanyin or Obaluaye are not going to speak to you.

I dont think you know that Osanyin is the only talking deity in Yoruba land after Ooni. Osaying speaks directly to consultants in Yoruba language. It bypass it aworo unless you dont understand it voice directly and charge consultants with instruction on what to do and not do. It voice is loud and clear. I have personally know one of it Aworo, he does not have or consult Ifa.

9jacrip:
In a nutshell, Ifa is the manual to these deities.

Orishas are not robots either. They are consious beings that know how to communicate using any of their conveinent aid with their initiates and Aworo.

9jacrip:
To further my argument, the school of Ifa in Oyo have each line from Ifa separated because that is how it is done even if you were omo ikofa at a Babalawo's place. You either follow what your Oluwo is good at or you chart a new course.

You pick what you want.

Omo Ikofa is basically entitled to know (Mo) Odu, Praise (ki) Odu, Interpreate (Tumo) Odu and Deliver (Ro) Odu.

Learning Ifa is not just about knowing history, mythology or the spiritual aspect of Ifa. Learning Ifa include knowing and recognising of the 256 corpus, memorizing and ability to recite the 800 and moreverses attached each Odu (that is about 204800 verse and with pssible more verses to that). Each of this verse conatin a story of the past of an individual, orisa and ajoguns. In this stories, there are problems, solution, solution and methodological ways which these problesm can be solved. The methods contain Ebo, materials needed for Ebo and where to place it. Also conditions could be attached to these things.

Memorixing 204800 and more verse is not an easy feat. It is something no professor or any master of science can beat.

There is no category involved in learning Ifa. The only category could depend on number of verses your Babalawo decides to teach you. In myy books, 8 verses dedicated for each 16 principal Odu. I have another book that contain 16 verses of the 240 secondary Odu. Each of these verse conatin interpreation and meaasge the Odu convey. Though the verse is not complete. . .author stated that alot of things are removed and are to be know by Initiates alone. However, each verse does not convey history or mythology alone. Each verse conatin just everything, all categories be it Ebo, Ofo (incantation), itan Orisha and many others.

9jacrip:
@the emboldened:

Ifa contains all (Ifa) Ooguns in Yoruba land. So an Onisegun can/may learn Ifa just for the sake of the Ooguns.

Ifa contains how each Orisa can be propitiated. So an Olorisa can/may learn Ifa just for the sake of learning how to propitiate Orisa.

Ifa contains ohun for Ode in the forest. So an Ode can/may learn Ifa just for the sake of hunting.

The Kelanis and Faletis focus on the historical aspect of Ifa. Likewise Prof. Omotoso Eluyemi.

As a Babalawo (even though an un-serious one), I know you can pick whatever you.

Ko si eni to mo Ifa tan, each person picks an area of specialization and teaches other people to get taught something in return. This is why we have Araba and the awo olodu merindinlogun, the other group of 8, Lodiagba and several Ojugbonas. They do not congregate based on knowing the same things but for being specialists in each area.

The second emboldened:

No story suggested the same Yoruba God and deities created these other people. For the Fertile Crescent, it was God creating Adam, for Yoruba it was God creating Oduduwa who in turn created human, for Chinese I know it is different, for Amerindians it is different.

The third emboldened:

Please kindly list the tribes or foreigners mentioned with the Odu (and the verse) where it can be found, thank you.

It is a fact that Ifa contain bodies of knowledge. However, Onisegun that want to learn about new medicines and healing skill needs Osanyin more than Ifa.

Propitiation of each Orisha can be learned mostly from aworo of that particular orisha. Some aworo or Yemoja worshipper do not have ikin or opele in their pocession but know how to relate with their Orisha.

A hunter needs to consult Ogun, oko and babaji. These are special Orisha that are primarily focusing on hunting game. The hunters I know only have a dedicated Ogun and Oko shrine.

Ifa indeed contain history. Orunmila is called erigi alo. . .which mean a historian. Whatever, Ifa o ni paro beni Orunmila ki n seke. I somewhat dont understand why you are selective in picking historical fact. I dont want to believe you only select stories that you only want to see while you throw others in the trash bin like you are exhibiting here.

Fact, no one know everything Ifa entails. learning ifa is continuous and a lifetime course. No one among those learned awo you listed ever claim one or more account of Ifa is myth, unrealistic fantasy, non-factual tale or false legend just like you are stipulating here.

On the second embolden, I dont want to bring bible into this discussion. The bible indeed mentioned garden of eden. This is a specific location which has been traced down to east Africa and it surroundings. The bible indeed said God called on other Gods before Human was created. Obatala, Oduduwa and many other Orisha jointly created man. Jehovah is not the most high just like Obatala is not Olorun. The bible refered to man as god just like ifa said every man is a god of himself. So tell us sir the difference in these account other than names and pattern which the story was told. Everything is relative. Just like Sango is to us is Thor to greek.

I will advise you to read about other nation creation story. It is very much alike and not different like you are suggesting.

I am not versed in Ifa. I am not learned like you are though i which to. My knowledge about it is from books and majorly what the Awo says. In Abimbola book, Ifa talked about Tapa, whites, arab, fulanis and mentioned some names from there.

In Obara meji, Ifa describe Fulanis. It talks about slavery, how we sold the Fulanis to whites. It talks about how Eebo (white) sell themselves. At least this didnt happen here. White slavement of the white is a thing that is not known or took place here. Ifa speaks Tapa according to Irosun meji.

Ifa points out that Orunmila, Ogun, Oduduwa and the like are blacks. Fulanis are not even called white but brown. However, the account where by white enslaved white before coming down here is a knowledge that is not known to Yoruba people.

What i really want to point out is that Ifa acknowledge the existence of other people, tribes and race. Ifa did not say the yoruba are the only one living in this planet maybe you can quote the verse that says otherwise.

Tapas have their own form of Ifa which is much similar to our own. Tapa have Ifa, Igbos have Afa, Vons have Fa, Arab have Il-ram (science of the earth), Europe have geomancy and Chinese have Iching. All thes system of divination are much alike. Actually nothing can prove that one form of divination is the primary from which others emanated but the similarities and uniformities they share proves that all divination process got it source from a source. This source is a particular people who travelled, rebranded what they have learned from the source and established it in their settlements.

9jacrip:
DNA says we share ancestry, yes.

People didn't fall out of the sky or grow out of the earth but were all independent of and probably didn't have the knowledge of the existence of each other. I'm sure there are other culture histories that claim to be the beginning of the world - Ife claiming it is nothing special.

The emboldened is your own thought but for those who want to understand their actual roots, they'll separate myth/spiritualism from proper history of man.

Every odu verse I hear or learn, I absorb it for spirituality purpose but I also seive out actual occurence.

Ifa is:

Odi ab'ogban ninu - for wisdom

Asaye sorun ode Bini - for spiritual consultation purposes.

Opitan awo ile ife - for historical records.

All of these and more into one - you take what you want from it.

You agree human share the same ancestry but getting thick that no one claim in their history that their clan or family is the only human which populate this planet.

Ifa which tells much about the Yoruba history did not mention that Yoruba people are the only ones living in this planet. Some distant nation, tribe and clans were mentioned which does not share or have it history linked with that of the Yoruba. The first human were travellers. They knew some people have emigrated and could settle in other lands.

The story from other ethnic group suggested that a particular god created human. No creation story suggested that a god created some particular people in a location and then moved to anther location to create another set of people. Ifa did not say Obatala created Yoruba and later moved to Kenya or China to create another set of people. Human are from the same ancestors and our tradition foretell story says that too.

Now,another thing is Ife which is seen as the place where this creation job was done. Other ethnic story might use another name. This is just a name but it all points to the fact that this indeed took place in a location. Science have stated the human cradle is Africa.. . The question now is where in africa. Is it Ife of Osun state or there is another location which was probably called Ife? Ithink this is what the thread is investigating.

Where did Ifa say you can take one that suit you from the verse you quoted? Those are what made up what we call Ifa. Removing one out of it will discredit and makes the whole useless

MrPresident1:
Myths are not meant to be understood literally, you should have enough brain power to understand that.

You have to approach the breakdown of this myth contextually

Earth means servitude
Chain is slavery/bondage
Heaven is enjoyment.

Oduduwa at'ewon ro, came down from heaven by a chain to earth. Aiye l'oja orun n'ile.

Oduduwa and Obatala created human

9jacrip:
History is woven into Isese only to explain spiritual matters and for initiates to strive to attain certain spiritual peaks or at least growth.

At a point, history has to stand alone and Isese has to stand alone else we begin to live in fantasy.

I do not want to see Oodaye has a historical fact.

While people lived in their own world in Ife life existed in Iwo Eleru; life existed in Kenya, life existed in South Africa to mention a few and they were all independent of each other (no similarities of culture have been said yet).

We are only aware of the world we expose ourselves to. Ife people didn't know other folks existed in other places till Oduduwa's era. They were just caught up in their own world and thought it was the only and beginning for others.

The Yoruba people do not see themselves as the only one living in this planet. Ifa mentioned some tribes which are foreign and have it traces outside Yoruba history.

Common lets reason. Do you think Yoruba people magically found themselves here while other people in kenya and south africa grew out of the soil? People do not just appear from thin air. Investigation on the dna has suggested that human have common ancestors. We human shared the same parents who multiply and multiply and later emigrate into fall distance in search for food and settlements. Research had that human race migrated out of Africa. So the chinese and americans did not magically appear from no where and suddenly assume their clans is the only existing population. They do not just think they were the only existing humans because they are not.

Isese is adayeba. It is interwoven with history, language and social morality. Taking history out of Isese is like dethroning Olupitan ife ati eleri ipin. Saying it leads to fantasy is more like saying Ifa is bunch of lie.

macof:
Actually Orunmila was originally from Ado (although not called ado then)...

Oodaye if real, existed long before Ire...ire is a contemporary of Ife Ooye.

one thing I'm not sure of is, if Ife was never centralized before Oduduwa what areas constitute Ife Ooye? can we say all major yoruba centers of that time was part of Ife Ooye

I learnt that Orunmila lives in Ado from his Oriki. . . . Ado n'ile 'fa. Also, Orunmila is sometime refer to as Ewi Ado. But what I actually know where he live first between Ado and Ife.

Oodaye could be the entire pieces of landmass which the Irunmole settled on. Research holds that the whole planet was once a pieces of landmass called pangaea. The solid ground or the super planet was one large land in the middle of a huge ocean believe were from comets that bombarded the earth at it early age. This made us to have just one continent until the plate tectonics continually shift the landmass causing one huge continent broken and set apart to form different planets and landmass we have today.

The creation story holds that land was just a piece of land but a five toed fowl scattered and expanded the land ;this is related to what scientist refer to continental shift. Continental shift is a theory that explain how continent shift it position on earth surface. This theory explain how the continent move over time. This movement is all about the break and drifting expansively the land or soil.

Oodaye is the one and first super landmass. Everything in the planet today originated from here. Animals and bird were from. Human too migrated and moved to other parts of the landmass from Oodaye. Oodaye just like continental shift explain similar animal can be found in other continents. It is more that Yoruba though but it is the cradle of civilization.

If my assertion is correct, I will like to know if the particular location the Irunmoles settled on when they came down to earth is the current Ile-Ife.

9jacrip:
I like to separate my religious belief from my history.

In my religious belief, yes, Irunmole descended from out of earth.

In my history, nothing of such happened.

History is woven into Isese.

We know Oduduwa shrine exist till date.

So also is his palace.

And Oranmiyan staff too is existing.

I read from you and also confirmed around about a path in Ife that is believed lead to Orun. It is believe up to this very moment that dead ones have a stop over in Ife before embarking on to their final resting place in the ancestors realm.

All these are bore out of religion which history approved.

If Oduduwa shrine is in Ife, can we then suggest that Oodaye where the dawn set is our Ile-ife?

How and why do Yorubas believe Ife is the cradle of civilization?

MrPresident1:
Ife Oodaye is located in the Middle East where Oduduwa came from. Oduduwa was displaced from Oodaye and he climbed down from heaven to earth by a chain.

Oduduwa met aboriginal people on ground whom he civilised and thought many great things. The Yoruba ethnic group is made up of Oduduwa and non-Oduduwa, like a church wherein Jews and Gentiles can freely worship together.

How does someone displaced here on earth come down on a chain from heaven?

9jacrip:
Yes, it does.

But 'landed'.

Sounds more like our Ijesa brother's spaceship kini o.

We all know Irunmoles ro sile from heaven.

I am curious about this whole thing because my dad told me sometime ago in his farm that Yoruba are the first set of people on earth. He claimed that all the animals and birds speaks and understand Yoruba language. And he proved his point with a bird that sing when we were discussing this iasue. My dad claimed the bird is mocking us that we should bend down and get back to work. The sound from the bird is very related to what my daddy said in Yoruba. He also have this strong believe that Ife is cradle of civilization.

I once read a report of a palace unearthed in somewhere around badagry and archeologist claimed substance found on this site dates back to 150,000 years. This lot makes me wonder if we are the first set of human on this planet. I could be wrong though

9jacrip:
Ifa mo pe o

A san lapa

Ifa mo pe

Odi ab'ogbon ninu

Ifa mo pe o

A s'aye, S'orun ode Bini

Ifa mope o

Opitan awo ile Ife

Let me stop here.

Myth may be synonymous with a lie. Myth, to me, may be actual historical occurrence that can no longer br verified by material substances and best left in the 'awo' or 'spiritual' realm.

The latter is the case with Ife Ooye, Ife Oodaye, Otu Ife.

Can not be verified is more acceptable.

Now take a look at the Ifa verse in your post. Ode bini is know and still existing tll this present moment as benin.

I think Oranmiyan staff is in Ife today? Does this not point to the fact that this current Ife is the same one Irunmole landed on?

There is no law that stops recently bailed person from been rearrested.

PMB played the wise card. He outsmarted powerful rogues

9jacrip:
Ife Oodaye

Ife Ooyelagbo

Ile-Ife

Pardon me for the mix up, I was just discussing it with Mumsi who just corrected me.

Otu Ife is something I believe to be something attached to Ifa/Orunmila/Babalawo and not necessary a town that existed.

Likewise Ife Oodaye and Ooyelagbo are both attached to Oduduwa's rise and role in creation of Ife.

Anyways, what is your own thought? School me.

I was thinking this towns really existed just like Ado which is referred to as home of Orunmila. More so, I have this strong believe that Orunmila, Oduduwa and other Irunmole existed as human, founded a settlement and have their children founding towns and settlement which made up Yoruba land.

Also, I dont very much agree with you that Oodaye is mythical location. Myth is synonymous to false. Ifa doesnt lie. Ifa ki n seke, orinmila o kin puro.

The creation story is from Ifa. Orunmila is opintan Ile Ife. And if what Orunmila told us through Ifa is not lie, Oodaye would have existed.

9jacrip:
It is said there were 3 phases of Ife.

Oodaye

The second one

Ooyelagbo - the present phase.

Using ibi ojumo tin mo from Oodaye is just a reference to its status to be the center of creation in Yoruba creation story.

I want to look at history of these towns from the actual human context and not mythology.

Ok lets assume Oodaye is myth. What about Otu ife from where Orunmila returned to Orun? Does settlement exist?

9jacrip:
Present Ife is Ife Ooyelagbo (Ife Ooye).

Ife Oodaye is a myth at best to me.

Yes, Ife is one of the few old towns in Yoruba that have remained on the same spot since founding.

Why then is the oriki of Ile Ife referred to as Ife Oodaye ibi ti oju ti n mo wa?

Ifa made us to know that Orunmila left Ife and settled in Ado. Ogun settled in Ire. These two settlement exist till date. Why is Oodaye different?

Ife Oodaye in Yoruba means the expansive space where the world was created. This is the name of the town where all the Irunmole settled when they came to earth. Oodudua was tasked to create this land with the help of a five toed fowl which disperse and expanded sand into other direction which makes us to have a portion of land on one side and water on the other side.

Likely today, Ife in Osun state of Nigeria is mostly refered to as Ife Oodaye. The towns founded by Irunmoles who moved out of Ife are present till date. This makes me think if the land created by Oduduwa according to the creation account is the present Ife.

Do you think Ife of the Oduduwa is the same as Ife in Osun?


Cc macof, 9jacrip, lawani, pastoraio, ghostofsparta ati be be lo

Musiwa and Gatiano everywhere I face.

I know tpia is 9jacrip girlfriend but never knew pastoraio got interest in fellow man. . . That man is lawani.

Lawani speaks some truth but he is always confusing. I dont usually know which direction he is coming from.

600 Million bail for 300 million stolen.

And on another round the case would be accelerated.

Kudos to Buhari and the Judiciary

refiner:
hnmmm....dis is strong....my dear steer away from it before its too late....my1kobo...

Thanks

refiner:
an atheist

Yes

An atheist who is deeply spiritual.

""To be spiritual is not by praying and going to church. Spiritualism is the understanding of the universe so that it can be a better place to live in."" Those are the words of Fela

refiner:
re u a Muslim

My dear I dont belong to any religion.

Emereolevanwill:
****

Is Biafra idea from Dundee United?

writetopoker:
oh wat a dry looking sickler and a nincontic mentally retard presido, who is suffering from mouth and and speech impairment problem.

Chenfu don vex

Guy small small abeg.

Buhary should kindly throw the card in a trashcan.

Dopkesi must be jailed if found guilty. All these beggi beggi card gift sharing will not safe him. He should rather engage his lawyers and meet good people in the court of law.

feedthenation:
Stories without concrete evidence!!!

I know you wish this news is false. But right while you are alive, you shall see new Nigeria under PMB.

Kyase:
I wonder how great it will be when he complete his tenure.

Obasanjo was visited by the holy spirit and he was made to see the new glory of Nigeria shinning bright like morning star which no dark cloud can stop from twinkling.

I remeber his song; do something new in my life, something new in my life. . .

Nigeria is experiencing a positive change and something new which those here in Nigeria and whole Africa can witness.

Buhari will always be the best thing that has ever happen to Nigeria. 16yrs of PDP rule saw our refinery completely grounded. This soar story is been changed by PMB within the course of eight months.



If I happen to be a christian, the point of my prayer would be centred on Buhari. Oh God, send down the Buhari of my life who will aid the restoration of every lost glory.

He is sick after eating our yam? Then we can as well quarantine him in kuje prison