₦airaland Forum

itseintel:
It is ooh....forget all the subtleties.


That's considerate of the PM. i will agree to that if the first criteria considered was efficiency,the best capable hands and not gender bias of any kind... if it's the last one, in no time will the efffects come to fruition. When i want a task done gender is the last ,if not none - existing thing on my mind... pick the best hands and get it right...

The Canadian PM has a depth of talent to deal with. Making it equally representative would not be hard and would not sacrifice efficacy.

I just hope the men on his cabinet got there through merit and not just because they are men.

Oahray:
If you take responsibility for your actions, you'd have admitted that your actions can influence your public image. But no... You prefer to blame onlookers for forming an opinion.

You still aren't getting the point. "It contributes to..." doesn't not translate to "It's the reason why..." I wonder why you are mixing them up. Are you doing that on purpose? The lady in a niqab who gets raped is the unfortunate victim of a person without self-control pushed on by a mind influenced by the media that you ladies have helped sexualize. There's no sole ingredient in any cooked meal.

Oh... Please. Feminists didn't change the world. Humans changed the world in every century. Popular ideals change with time. People don't travel on donkeys anymore, monarchy has lost its power... Times change, but Man has always formed opinions since the moment he realized he has a mind. That would never change...

The world isn't going to change FOR YOU because you have a victim mentality. Interpret that any way you want

Your statement regarding opinion is getting tangled. It makes no sense.

I am not a victim. I am a fighter.

And I will not accept blame for being raped simply because of what I wear.

Rape is caused by rapists.

The world will change because strong people fight for what they believe in, no matter the opposition. So that everyone can be treated like a human and be afforded the rights they deserve.

Feminists have changed the world. They fought for women's right to vote and to work outside the home, for example. They won. Deal with it.

Time to stop mansplaining the world to me.

Ontarget:
The first part in bold, a lot of ladies here are very educated and bold so spare me that talk. It doesn't explain why you are alone here fighting for nothing.

The second part in bold, where did I state I do not want women to have rights? Please I NEVER stated at any point that I don't want women to have rights. Women already HAVE equal rights with men. They are not lacking anything in many societies. I will keep repeating that you are fighting an empty and purposeless fight. Are women treated like animals? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! So what are you complaining about? I still haven't figured out your objective here. My dear, reserve your energy for a more meaningful fight. The one you are currently engaged in is pointless.

So why is it that women are judged as a whole gender and men are judged on their individual attributes?

Because women do not have equality. Not socially.

Plenty of womem are treated as second class to this day. Being shamed for the way they behave, but the dame behaviour in men is rewarded.

This fight is pointless to you because you don't see any value in it. It isn't pointless to me.

But you assume your thoughts are more important than mine. Because you're a man.

You say that I'm alone... well, no. Plenty of women think the same way I do. Just not on this forum.

itseintel:
I have never benefitted anything from being male..women benefit more from being female, so play no victim to suit this situation. i work hard everyday to make a statement, which is i can be better than yesterday. In my school days, female folks worked half my effort to get same grades like i did...some even marked my scripts!! What do you call that?

Foresight is important and from history, the trends of this campaign for feminism if it eventually wins will peak at domination... they want power, and tell me what form of power is not dominating? what difference is it to patriarchy then.... i hear your thoughts, i just don't agree.

Feminism is not about women dominating men. Why don't you understand this?

A female president doesn't mean all women have power over all men. No feminists suggests that only women should be in positions of power. The Canadian prime minister is a feminist and said he would have half of his staff be male and half female - that's feminism.

AnalyticEngine:
People like Michelle, Oprah and yours truly beloved fashion mentor, Kim Kadashan set the trend for fashion and zombies like you follow. Tomorrow, if Oprah says, ' no need for tops, just go out nude.' The next thing we'd see is Nigerians begin to follow the new trend. You would hardly see the Chinese dress anyhow or follow the whites like mumu because they know certain aspects of American culture is civilised insanity. It has nothing to do with personal ideals. For a fair experiment, let all these women have the same degree of self esteem, looks and achievement but vary their dresses. The most properly dressed will earn the respect of people any day. Btw, I referred to beautiful women with high moral ethics and self esteem. Michelle is not beautiful. Here's food for thought. Why do I as a lady, need to reveal some of my sexual organs when dressing?

I don't like Kim Kardashian. She's not intellectual enough for my taste and too focussed on looks. She does appeal to zombie-like people who want acceptance.

Nobody needs to expose anything. But they may want to.

My point is that dress doesn't indicate a person's value. Oprah and Michelle Obama are valuable people who have exposed their cleavage. They have never indicated a requirement to do so, or even suggested it. They also cover their cleavage at times. With no instruction to others to follow suit.

everton4life:
thumbs up girl.same goes to the white women [also less beautiful than the black women]

I am white.

Culture is different, a white man is less likely to allow complete dependence on him due to increasing influence of feminism.

However, men's attitudes to women remain essentially the same world over due to patriarchy.

Oahray:
this is exactly why I had to add that a reason is not necessarily an excuse. Still you managed to fly over the point. Impressive!

Whether you like it or not, there is a reason for every action, but it only becomes a valid excuse when the reason justifies the action. In the end, every action contributes to some reaction. Some of you like to deny reality because it is unpleasant.

Don't even try to go strawman on me. That fallacy is ol'skool. No one is sexualizing anyone. When Nicky Minaj raps about her butt, and guys focus on her butt, whose fault is that? Our male ancestors? You ladies are the ones sexualizing yourselves by highlighting body parts that arouse men by nature.

My points thus far since you have a knack for missing them...
1) Your dressing influences how you are viewed. You can change how you are dressed, you can't change the human tendency to form an opinion about your actions.

2) Indecent dressing is one of the MANY THINGS (others include social media, movies that glorify channeling one's frustrations and aggression through sex) that CONTRIBUTE to vices like rape, even though a lack of self control by the rapist is the main culprit.

Keep on being obsessed with patriarchy all you wish. You have a right, just as others have a right to form opinions about you and your dressing. It's a crazy world, don't expect it to change for you; it won't. You better start taking responsibility for your actions.

I do take responsibility for my actions.

I refuse to accept the blame for other people's actions or thoughts as a result of my dress. Uou may be interested to know women wear niqab and still get raped. Conventionally unattractive women are raped. Rape is seldom about sexual satisfaction, it's about power.

And feminists have already changed the world. It will keep changing. Whether you like it or not.

itseintel:
I'm not confusing both.... they are the same. Just the gender advocating them is the difference....

And you think men haven't gone through many of stuffs cos they are male... the many times at work folks have received commendations aand promotions cos they are women... Some even gate crash their way up...

As much as i empathise with you, i would not conclude hearing your side alone.... sometimes it's our reaction to situations that get us what we never bargained, not gender. ... besides, you only told me your loss and not your gain- those things that kept you longing rather than quitting at those times

There's never an all case in any situation these days... so generalisations shouldn't bother any focused mind.

Generalisations bother me when they affect me every day.

You live with male privilege. I have to fight twice as hard to be heard because I am a woman in a male dominated field.

I have gained through my hard work. I have not benefited from patriarchy.

Feminism is not the opposite of patriarchy. It has just been named after the people who fight for equality of opportunity when they had none - females. They don't seek to be in power over all men. I keep saying this and you refuse to hear it.

chigoizie7:
U see? I will be @ advantage with all these feminism thing.

For now, "respect" for whoever is what I don't joke it. Be u a feminist or not, once u are with me, be sure of getting that from me.

Another thing is child bearing, no matter how hard u as a feminist try to make things equal, a man can never carry a child for nine months, but a woman can, feminist or not.

These are the two things that scares me most in life apart from death, because I need a child and a wife that can respect and me respecting her, any other thing about what feminism stands for is to my advantage as an african man so why would I not want it? My only problem with them is preaching what they can not carry out practically.

I don't expect u to end up all the time in the kitchen, I can cook, as a matter of fact I do that as I type.

I don't also expect u to always be the one around and dearing to out kids, I also want to be loved by them too, and to achieve that, i will have to start paying attention to them the same way their mother does.

Apart from these two things, every other thing is to my advantage as a nigerian man getting married to a feminist. Because we will have to share rents, share the children's school fees, she maintains her car while I do so to mine, she buys her cloths just as I buy mine, whatever we buy for the kids, we contribute equally, It will only make me work less because someone is contributing equally financially, spiritually, morally, physically and otherwise.


So give me why good reason why I wouldn't support feminism? Feminists that practicalise what they preach.


If she wants to be a brick layer or an auto mechanic so as to earn must to contribute to her own half in our matrimonial responsibility, I don't give a fork.

But preaching to be equal and not doing things equally is what I can not condone. Just incase, I have worked under so many female bosses. They were bosses not because they were women, but because they worked hard to outshine their male counterparts and ascend such positions.


As africans, I don't see why someone will be clamouring for feminism when it is not even against our laws. Before our constitutional laws, everyone I s equal, man or woman.

If ur own perception about equality is different from what I wrote, please feel free to elucidate.

I agree with your perception of feminism. It has benefits to both genders.

I practice feminism in my life, as you suggest. I have always done this.

My main issue in this thread is judging women's characters by how they dress. Not as an individual, but as a gender wholly.

Not all women who expose cleavage are slvts. Not all that dress "modestly" are sexually chaste. Women who are "ugly", "fat", and wear niqabs get raped in equal proportion to those who are not.

Judging an entire character of a gender's behaviour is illogical. Women deserve to be able to dress as they please without being subject to the gender stereotyping I have talked about.

Just going to leabe this here...

Ontarget:
Like I earlier, you have absolutely no case to present. Have you wondered why you are the only female here carrying the matter on your head? Because other females are comfortable and enjoying themselves somewhere that they have no time and no reason to whine about a non issue.

There are many men out who treat women extremely well. So stop sounding like every man on the planet is oppressing women. Fish out those in particular who oppress women and also men too, and not just women, and then preach to them directly.

So you want to live in a world where EVERY single man on the planet will treat EVERY woman equally and with respect? Hahaha. And you think thats possible? Its just like dreaming of an absolutely crime free world. Good luck with that.

It's because women fear men disliking them and havent the same level of education I do.

I don't fear men disliking me.

You confuse men with patriarchy. Women feed into the patriarchy as well. It is a societal structure, not a gender war.

Educate yourself. Feminism is about everyone being treated with respect.

Just because bad things happen, doesn't mean we have to accept the status quo. Just because perfection can't be achieved, doesn't mean we don't aim for it.

If you don't want women to have rights, fine. But I'll still keep fighting. Maybe your daughters will thank people like me.

Suspectzero:
I would be a humanist not a feminist. Equality is not a feminine quality. That is what you people use to try to sell your views which in practise don't translate to equality. We've seen evidence of it in western countries. It's always women victim this women victim that. But of course it's all about equality. You are already equal before the eyes of the law. What you really want is preferential treatment. Just like how those women started campaigning for an apology for Remi Tinubu. That's feminism in action. Special treatment and victim mentality.

Incorrect.

itseintel:
You still evade my questions.....

Men are also sexual objects...hope you are aware..

Men should also take to the streets protesting privileges like maternity leave and female specific job opportunities.... you cannot take away gender from many circumstances....

Reproductive rights? In what sense please...

If i hit a man it's called a fight...but i hit a woman, right or wrong, i become the shameless one... where's the so much advocated equality in such circumstance...

Why will men stay home... that is bilogically,economically and socially out of place. Then where is the place of the females in nature to nuture... The breastss you have ain't no accident neither your kind birthing a mistake

Feminism in our time doesn't fight stereotypes....it for weak women who cannot fight for their place in this genaration but want it on a platter... muh of talkers than doers. Women with complex issues who try to give men as the reason why they can't thrive where they have been placed...

The society has become more egalitarian and less patriarchal since the advent of industrialisation.... it's an open field with abundant opportunities....train yourself right and seize yours...

Feel free to quote me when you have been victimised by gender bias and we'll weight it alongside when you haven't.... feminism cannot fight what it creates- which is stereotypes...

Patriarchy has created stereotypes. You are playing into them by suggesting women only can nurture children - abundantly untrue.

Men have a right to paternity leave. In many countries. Thanks to feminism making way for maternity leave.

Feminism is about women being ABLE to fight for their place. Which it has done.

You are confusing feminism for patriarchy.

I have been the victim of gender bias daily in my life. Being overlooked for promotion at work even though I am more qualified and experienced than my male counterparts. Being paid less than my male colleagues of the same level as me. Being sexually harrassed on the street. Being blamed for my rapes. Being called a slvt for something I wore. Being called a b!tch bevause I refused sexual advances of a guy I thought was my friend. Being beaten by a boyfriend because a man approached me in a shop. Being told what to wear if I want to be respected. Being asked why I'm not married, and that I'll never be married if I focus so much on my career. Being told that my place is below a man. And so it goes.

Being told I have fewer rights than men, by you, simply because I was born with female Instruments.

I live by feminist principles. That women should have as much opportunity to succeed as men. That men have absolutely no right to treat me poorly because another female did something they didn't personally approve of.

When someone says "all men cheat" men scream and rant "not all men!" And then in the same breath start generalising and categorizing women based on irrelevant data like what women wear. It's illogical. But that's patriarchy for you.

AnalyticEngine:
It is so pathetic that you think this way. Please, expose all the cleavage you want, even your arse, as long as you bear all the consequences of the calibre of people you attract and repel, no one cares. The fact still remains that any lady who feels the need to expose her boobs or unclothedness either has self-esteem issues or deliberately wants to provoke seduction. Any of which is bad. You can't find a beautiful lady with high moral standards and ethics flaunting her sexual organs anyhow in order to appear appealing because their character and real beauty does the job.

You're the one who has pathetic thinking.

You think the only women who have value are the ones who are willing to subjugate themselves to your personal ideals.

You don't get to decide. Many women who expose cleavage do wonderful and valuable things in this world. Michelle Obama. Oprah. And so on.

Certifiedbillio:
go jor, it's not dressing that make a girl to be raped,

It's rapists that rape women. Or men.

prettigurl16:
I know that critics would soon swarm over me but I don't care any longer . All I care about is to marry a white man.
A man who will open and shut doors for me.
A man who knows to take part in house chores
A man who doesn't mind showing the whole world that I am his princess without fear that people will see him as a weakling.
A who knows that love making is an art that should be enjoyed equally by both parties.
A man who..

Let me pause here for the moment. Brb.

So you want a servant?

Will you open and shut doors for him?

Check yourself on that one.

Also, white men aren't really like this. They're like men everywhere. Just less handsome than black men

blessedvisky:
Lol don't try and switch from "woman" to "human".

People don't get accorded respect based on their humanity. Rather people get accorded respect based on their accomplishments.

People who have in no way contributed to the betterment of any society and yet keep asking for respect simply because they are humans too have a long thing coming (that's speaking generally) .

Women are human. Everyone deserves respect. Basic human consideration.

Patriarchy creates a system where women find it very difficult to accomplish things that are seen as valuable, then tells them they're sh!t for not accomplishing anything. Smh.

Ontarget:
Just laughing at you. Isn't it the same way ladies call men dogs when they express their sexual desires. And also the same way ladies say men are a bunch of cheats. And also the same way ladies say men are dumb after fleecing his money cos he was caring to overspend on them. And also the same way ladies insult and discriminate broke guys who woo them.

My dear, you really have no case to present.

Those women, like those men, are a product of patriarchy.

The idea that men are better and more deserving of power than women.

Remove that ideology, women won't make you feel so silly.

They won't depend on you financially.

You will learn how to make sexual advances appropriately and women will respond better to your sexual advances.

You will mutually respect one another so cheating will be reduced.

blessedvisky:
Lol. Foolinlove seems to subscribe to the mindset of
" I'M A WOMAN, HENCE YOU (THE MAN) MUST RESPECT ME, MY THOUGHTS, ACTIONS, WORDS, DRESSING ETC SIMPLY BECAUSE I'M A WOMAN"

I laugh in Portuguese

Simply because I'm a human. What makes wome less worthy of respect than men?

chigoizie7:
U are still confused on what u want. In your words "feminisms fights to dismantle male stereotypes" yet u have been going on and on to tell many girls or all of us how not to trust men because once they buy u food or spend a dime on u, they start demanding for sex as a pay back. What sort of stereotype is worst than that?

It's a result of rape culture.

Patrairachal society tells me to protect myself from rape, but then you get mad when I do?

Hypocrisy.

pryme:
This your so-called feminist parade is another name for selfishnes. I want to ask you

Will you place a pregnant woman on night shift - equal opportunity ba?

Will you open the car door for man to get in? Or will you pull out a seat for a man to sit when you at a rrestaurant or a sit out? - equal treatment na.

Will you send a woman to work in the query or a parking plan where they lift cement bags, or will send wwomen to fight boko haram instead of men - equal job oopportunity na.

Will you send a woman to break Usain Bolts world record ( no woman can because they are not strong or fast enough)

Will you send a woman to do a man's job?

It's like you don't know your place.

I won't be surprised if this feminist idea was instigated by the Devil, cos right from creation woman and men were NEVER created the same way, neither did God give women and men EQUAL relevance.

You want equality simply go for sex change, cos a woman can never be a man.

Note: am not ssaying a man is more important than a woman, No. They just can't be equals.

I have addressed your points in previous posts.

Why is wanting women to be treated as a human selfish?

You label me, because I am a woman.

Why are you so afraid of equality?

chigoizie7:
How sure are u about that?

I don't, I am not perfect.

I just want u to stop relating ur experiences to others. Or to start influencing them

I suggest you start paying attention to women when they speak, instead of thinking you know everything about their experiences.

You may notice some patterns.

I am attempting positive social change. For women. It's like you don't think women deserve rights and freedom like men.

Oahray:
You haven't answered my question. Would you view two different presidential candidates the same way when one dresses like a ceo of a corporate organization and the other dresses like a drug-addicted gangster?
So how is it you say men aren't judged by the way they dress?

You are trying to argue that a person's dressing doesn't matter and should never attract negative opinion. I am saying you are wrong.

Again, having sexual thoughts isn't the reason for discrimination based on dressing. I wonder why you aren't getting it.

Rape? Lemme tell you something all of you are trying hard to deny. Since time immemorial, there have always been persons without much self-control. That is why rape exists at all. But it's not the sole reason it has become so prevalent (take note that a reason is not necessarily an excuse).

The world glorifies sex, the media is awash with it. I've seen a matchbox with a female in a sexy pose. Tell me what that has to do with match sticks. These things matter.

When you dress with all parts showing, you might not get attacked because whoever gets aroused has self-control or because the conditions aren't favourable; but you may have contributed to the rape of the next person the brute catches in a favourable condition.

Stop excusing rapists.

Go and watch Mad Men. Tell me if women are solely responsible for their own sexualisation.

I tire of talking to people who fail to see logic.

itseintel:
Hope you read the feminist theory attached to this social system (which i disagree is functional in this age) ... was the bias towards the female gender alone?

If not,why are you one sided?

This one sidedness is the cause of the modern feminist's mis-direction!!

People in this lane are sinking ships from past experience,who would rather blame others than themselves. They deprive themselves the room to be better by staying bitter, since they look outward rather than inward.

They don't look for the good outside since they are blinded, but will unconsciously reveal thier embittered souls in thier fight for a perceived sanity. ..

Try not to be one,they learn of the deepened injury when it's terminal.... Adios!!

Feminism fights to dismantle gender stereotypes. It is helpful to men too.

Feminism has succeeded in a lot. And it will continue to do so. Whether you like it or not.

Im the future, women will be able to have posession of their own bodies to the point where no one sees women as inanimate sexual objects. Where women have reproductive rights. Where men can stay home and care for children while women go out and work - if that's what's right for that couple. Where people are free to make choices based on circumstance, not gender.

It is not about women taking over the world. It is about women being treated with the same respect and opportunity as men.

Equality may be impossible, but equality of opportunity is not.

Tenkobos:
Oh really? It is obvious you haven't considered the terrible effects indecent exposure on the streets and tv are having on little children who are too young to be viewing.

Are you treating them nicely?

You are the one who thinks exposure is sexual. I can't control people's thoughts.

I think the main problem with exposure on tv is that it is coupled with sexual lyrics and behaviour that suggests women are sexual objects - like lap dancing for men etc.

chigoizie7:
Says who?

Go over my previous posts, I talk to men more than women.

I only try to educate women when they kinda have a certain stereotypes about men and how they behave.

I am a bad guy, but I always try to do things the right way, but I still envy thousands of guys who are better than me.

Yes. Educate me on my personal experience of patriarchy! You know better of my experiences and the experiences of other women.

IamLEGEND1:
are you being serious right now?

So let's say two guys show up for an interview,one dressed in shorts and a T-shirt,the other in a suit & tie. Tell me,do you think the T-shirt guy stands a chance?

You have your home,you can go topless, bottomless.... headless, if you so desire. No one is gonna stop you. but society has lived forward,we're no longer in the stone age. so if you're stepping out,you try to uphold the standard of modesty of ur locality. it's that simple.
And you'll agree that women are the most likely to bend those rules, hence why the spotlight is focused on them.

The spotlight is focused due to patriarchy and sexism, not women's behaviours.

Any deviation by women from a patriarchal ideal is met with abuse.

Dress codes exist everywhere. But dress codes for women are more stringent.

Tenkobos:
If your fashion sense makes you dress like a masqurade then you're one as long as you're in that attire and if I have idle N10 I will dash you. Do you really expect me to approach a man in military attire to look into his soul to know if he's truly a military man inside before I start obeying his commands?

Your dress sense speaks a volume about you.

Environment(society) dictates what we wear.

There are places you can go nude and nobody will even notice but you will be arrested for indecent exposure in some places.

Bottom line is, you've the right to wear what you want but you have no right to tell people how to see or treat you.

That's their freedom and you can't take it from them..

Freedom does not include treating people badly.

itseintel:
Loooooool.....

You still haven't answered my questions..... it's not that complicated to give an explanation of a term you have been referencing all morning...

You can recommend texts on human sociology for me to look through, that could be a great way to start knowing a lot within the context of the last thousand years


Is it not amusing that you had all morning to lecture us on the the emotional,logical and psychological aspects of cleavage exposure and it's embodiments; yet you cannot spare just few lines to explain these 'patriarchal thoughts' that have littered almost every post you have made all morning... how encompassing,inspiring and thoughtful of you...


Be careful of what you read on Google.... it has always been an acquaintance, but never my friend..
kudos those who drink from your golden cup of wisdom!!!!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchy

Patriarchal thoughts are those that support privileges of men at the expense of women.

Both genders reinforce patriarchy. I am not attacking men, I am attacking an invalid social system.

neocortex:
Well, your first post was about individual rights wear anything you want not generalizations
and I am certain most of those who opposed you would not have done so if "generalization is bad"
was your original message not "I can do whatever I want and don't you dare judge me".

Your example is quite extreme and can only be found among backward thinking bigots who
don't matter and even at that people get judged for being black,short, fat and the likes,
so fighting bigotry is a fight for all.

Correct. I do fight for all, as you can see in my post history.

Women have individual rights, too.

Ontarget:
Are women not guilty of the same thing too? Same way women judge guys who sag and tatto their entire bodies and walk around shirtless. So what is your point?

Everyone is guilty of having different tastes in clothing. But only women are judged entirely on what they wear.

Man goes topless - hot weather.

Woman shows cleavage - slvt, easy girl who loves sex, sex object, attention seeker etc.

chigoizie7:
Infact I don't know what to tell u again.

Just live ur life the way u want.

You don't need to tell me anything. You need to STOP telling me. You wouldn't seek to "educate" a man the same way.