₦airaland Forum

Oh, how foolish are those men who corrupt the simplicity of the Gospel, and place heavy burdens upon sinners, grievous to be borne. Calvinism teaches that God chooses who will and won't be saved. Consequently, Calvinism also teaches that Jesus only died for the "chosen" few. How absurd!

If MacArthur is correct, i.e., that God chooses who will get saved and who won't, then what is the criteria by which God chooses? Are some men better, or more worthy, than others? Calvinism turns God into a respecter of persons; but Romans 2:11 states, "For there is no respect of persons with God." Titus 2:11 clearly states: "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men." The Bible plainly teaches that the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL MEN. That is, all men have the opportunity to get saved. It is man's responsibility to desire the truth; and it is God's responsibility to provide it. God is not obligated to provide the truth unless a man first desires to have it.

The very notion that Jesus only died for certain people is blasphemy against the character of God. Does not Romans 5:6 teach that Christ died for the ungodly? Yes, it does! God loves all mankind, and has manifest His unconditional love towards us by dying for our sins (Romans 5:12). To say that God chose who would be saved or lost before the world began defeats the entire purpose for which God created mankind. God created us to please Him (Revelation 4:11). Hebrews 11:6 declares that only FAITH pleases God. If God forces certain people to become Christians, then where does faith enter the picture? It doesn't. For faith to exist, there must be the opportunity for doubt. Calvinists teach that God, through "Irresistible Grace," forces a person to get saved. How ridiculous! God has given mankind a freewill. It is our choice whether to receive Jesus Christ, or to reject Him. God does not determine our decision.

God is not willing that any should perish (2nd Peter 3:9). If MacArthur is correct, i.e., that God chose some not to be saved, then God is willing for some to perish, because He didn't even give them a chance to get saved. There are so many loopholes in the doctrines of Calvinism. One heresy begets another and another.

Matthew 25:41 states that God created Everlasting Fire for the Devil and his angels. God never intended for even one human being to burn in the fires of Hell. Yet, according to John MacArthur and other Calvinists, God only chose certain people to be saved, and others were intended to burn in Hell for all eternity. The big problem with Calvinism from every perspective is that it eliminates man's free will to make his own choices.


Conclusion

John MacArthur is full of pudding. Faith is not a gift to those whom God has chosen to salvation, independent of their own free will. God forbid! Rather, those who freely RECEIVE Jesus Christ are saved by the power of the Gospel (John 1:12; Romans 1:16). Eternal life is a "free gift," which has been paid for by Jesus' literal physical precious blood (Hebrews 9:12). All that God requires for salvation is that we, of our own free will, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31).

Terrorist organisation Boko Haram has issued a statement making clear that its goal is to eliminate followers of Christ from Nigeria and establish an Islamic state.

"The Nigerian state and Christians are our enemies and we will be launching attacks on the Nigerian state and its security apparatus as well as churches until we achieve our goal of establishing an Islamic state in place of the secular state," Boko Haram stated in no uncertain terms in the statement published by the Osun Defender on Thursday.

"We are responsible for the suicide attack on a church in Jos and also another attack on another church in Biu," a spokesman for the group, Abul Qaqa, is said to have told reporters in the northeastern city of Maiduguri over the phone.

The group was responsible for recent terrorist attacks, in which six people were killed and dozens injured after a suicide bomber detonated explosives outside a church in Jos and other Boko Haram gunmen opened fire at worshippers in a church in Biu.

"We launched these attacks to prove the Nigerian security wrong and to debunk their claim that we have been weakened by the military crackdown," the spokesman added, referring to the Nigerian military fighting back against the group in recent times, managing to kill 19 terrorist gunmen in a shootout last week in the cities of Kano and Maiduguri.

Nigeria, which is largely divided along geographical and religious lines, with most Christians concentrated in the South and Muslims living in the North, has been unable to contain the violence aimed at churches. Boko Haram has killed hundreds of Christians throughout the past year, and despite President Goodluck Jonathan's promise to do all he can to push back against the group, they are still very active in the country.

"We will crush them. We will begin from tonight to take different measures, different approach in fighting Boko Haram and we must weed them out from the society," Jonathan said earlier this year.

The Islamic extremists have been increasingly vocal about their activities, and even warned journalists about forgetting to include their statements in stories covering their attacks.

"We are keeping tabs on all comments being made about us ... Let no one make any entreaty to us when we perfect our plan and start our operation, especially against journalists," Boko Haram said in a statement earlier this month.

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/boko.haram.says.christians.are.our.enemies/30073.htm

jayriginal: How is it nonsense if its reporting facts ?

On a more serious note, the chaps are nutts need help

Just for the records, age of the aircraft @ 21 years is no big deal , I checked yesterday on the British Airways Fleet Age site and they possess a large number of aircraft over 20 years which are still flying.

It's about Maintenance, Maintenance, Maintenance !!!!!!!!!!!!



Some of the British Airways in-service Fleet

G-BNLE 24047 753 Boeing 747-436 F14J70W30Y177 15-11-1989 22.7 Years
G-BNLF 24048 773 Boeing 747-436 F14J52W36Y235 28-02-1990 22.4 Years
G-BNLG 24049 774 Boeing 747-436 F14C52W36Y235 27-02-1990 22.4 Years
G-BNLI 24051 784 Boeing 747-436 F14J52W36Y235 21-04-1990 OneWorld cs 22.2 Years
G-BNLJ 24052 789 Boeing 747-436 F14J52W36Y235 23-05-1990 N60668 22.1 Years
G-BNLK 24053 790 Boeing 747-436 F14J70W30Y177 25-05-1990 N6009F 22.1 Years
G-BNLL 24054 794 Boeing 747-436 F14J52W36Y235 14-06-1990 22.1 Years
G-BNLM 24055 795 Boeing 747-436 F14J52W36Y235 28-06-1990 N6009F 22 Years
G-BNLN 24056 802 Boeing 747-436 F14J70W30Y177 27-07-1990 21.9 Years
G-BNLO 24057 817 Boeing 747-436 F14J70W30Y177 25-10-1990 21.7 Years
G-BNLP 24058 828 Boeing 747-436 F14J70W30Y177 17-12-1990 21.5 Years
G-BNLR 24447 829 Boeing 747-436 F14J52W36Y235 15-01-1991 N6005C 21.5 Years
G-BNLS 24629 841 Boeing 747-436 F14J52W36Y235 13-03-1991 21.3 Years
G-BNLT 24630 842 Boeing 747-436 F14J70W30Y177 19-03-1991 21.3 Years
G-BNLU 25406 895 Boeing 747-436 F14C52W36Y235 28-01-1992 20.5 Years
G-BNLV 25427 900 Boeing 747-436 F14J52W36Y235 20-02-1992 20.4 Years


There are many more, link - http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/British-Airways?show=current#AirlineFleetList

The Nigerian air carrier that crashed and killed more than 150 people will soon fly again, despite public concerns about its fleet of aging aircraft, a company executive said Thursday.

Investigators continue to probe what caused a Dana Air MD-83 to lose power in both its engines and crash June 3 in a Lagos neighborhood. Gautam Hathiramani, a member of the airline's board of directors, told The Associated Press in an interview that the carrier has complete faith in its five remaining MD-83s as airlines across the world still fly them.

"We have no hesitation to fly them again because we've always had them fully serviced and they're certified they're airworthy before they go up in the air," Hathiramani said.

Others, however, remain skeptical of the airline and authorities after the crash in Nigeria, a country that has suffered through a string of major airline crashes through the decades. The MD-83s in its fleet are all more than 20 years old, an age not unusual among airlines, though planes often require more maintenance and attention the older they become.

"It's a tried-and-tested model and it was the right size and configuration for the market," Hathiramani said.


Dana, an airline that began flying 2008, relies on Turkish maintenance company MyTechnic to service its aircraft. The airline once used Spanish international carrier Iberia to perform maintenance on its planes, but chose MyTechnic in 2010 as it could have technicians on the ground in Nigeria, Hathiramani said. The airline flies the aircraft to Istanbul for heavy maintenance checks, the executive said.

Hathiramani said that Dana still consults with Iberia, now owned by International Consolidated Airlines Group. However, an Iberia spokesman told the AP that the company ended its maintenance contract with the carrier in 2010. Hathiramani said he didn't know whether MyTechnic offered a cheaper maintenance contract than Iberia.

Dana is a major brand in Nigeria, run by Indian families who have lived in the country for decades. Its holdings also include a plastic manufacturer, a pharmaceutical arm and other industries. However, there have been safety concerns raised in the past about its importation of Kia automobiles in Nigeria, with some complaining the company refused to honor recall notices issued by the manufacturer. Hathiramani said he had no information about those complaints.

Aviation authorities have halted flights by Dana Air as an investigation into the crash of the plane coming into Lagos from the nation's capital, Abuja. Its pilots radioed in just before the crash to say both engines had failed.

Since the crash, civil aviation authorities in Nigeria have come under increasing political and public pressure. The civil aviation authority grounded Air Nigeria, the country's second-largest airline, for safety checks after a strike by engineers. On Thursday, its flights had resumed, as customers in a domestic terminal at Lagos' Murtala Muhammed International Airport walked past a condolence registry and two lit white candles at the Dana Air check-in counter.

Hathiramani said Dana Air continued to call on relatives of those killed in the crash to come forward and identify themselves so bodies can be claimed and insurance payments be routed to families. He acknowledged the public anger the company now faces and said the company wanted both its officials and the public to know the cause of the crash before it begins flights again.

"They have every reason to know what happened," he said. "We're just as just as equally committed to finding out the true cause of what happened here."

- AP

I bet all the Nairaland 'Miscreants' will soon rush to comment on this nonsense article !!

Jenwitemi: If all those things you listed that one needs to come close to God are what you actually believe in, then not only are an "UNLUCKY SOUL", but also a soul in bondage of darkness. Pitiful soul.

After the DANA air crash which deeply affected me for at least a week, I began to think of the consequences of rejecting the mercies and grace of God in this life and what to expect in the afterlife.

Many of us live our lives with great boastings and certainties , that we are never going to die, we are always so hopeful of tomorrow and many times make plans to suit our well laid out career paths, marriage, family etc.

What really gets to me, is why people never think of their demise, that one day, and normally without warning they will be taken away from this temporary world and made to answer for their conduct while here, their speech and of course the content of their thoughts.

It is sheer madness to live here , in my opinion, like animals without any thought to the security of our souls.

Today as we speak , some loud mouth atheist died, some Christian hypocrite died, some Radical Islamist died, some child died, some Good Christian died, but one thing is certain, in most cases they were not expecting it, they had plans for tomorrow , for next week for next month or even the next 5 years.

Gentlemen and Ladies my point is this, the passengers in the DANA plane had no one clue that it was their last day, they were 5 miles from the Lagos airport, they were most likely strapped to their seats ready for landing procedure, the air hostesses were taking all the trays of snacks away and everyone was looking forward to seeing their families.

Alas it was not to be, within minutes they were dead. Among them were Christians ( who hopefully prayed for those on board ) , atheists, Muslims. I really fear to think of where they are now , it scares me.

The bible says it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

When we die , all our pride, boasting, loud mouths, intellectual ability, etc , all dies with us, we go back to God empty handed as we came into the word.

My question is , if you die today , are you ready .

What makes you sure you will see tomorrow ?

Have your talents been used for the glory of GOD or to further your selfish interests?

Read John 3, Jesus loves you , he died for you and is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Jesus wants to give you live, death is your enemy and mine, but Jesus has gained victory over this mutual foe of ours.

He is the resurrection and the life, with him there is no more death, will you come to him today or will you put it off for yet another day. Do you want to enjoy and indulge in sin for another day.

For what shall it profit a man if he were to gain the whole world ( status , money, goods etc ) but lose his only soul.

think about it pals.

logicboy: See this illiterate. I have been banned for almost a week and still banned from the islam section.

You deserve to be banned forever

Can my Christian Pals help explain this concept.

Death means to cease to exist , so why does the second death mean something else.

The second death from my church belief is that of eternal seperation from God but then we are still existing, we are not dead and never will be. What constitutes death ?

In my opinion death while we are here on earth is used in the spiritual connotation which is life without God, this is followed by a Physical death which means ceasing to exist physically.

When the sinner dies physically he is cast into 'hell' to await judgement.

After judgement , he is cast into the lake of fire to burn forever , right ?

But how can this be classified as second death when the soul still exixts albeit in torment.

Please let me know your thoughts from a theolgical perspective.

JESUS is LORD forever !!!

Unlike Muhammad. Buddha, Joseph Smith, the asserted papal ordination of the Apostle Peter and other such human founders of world religions, Jesus was neither sent here to start a religion nor was He just a mere human being like the above mentioned men.

Jesus Christ is the promised Messiah, Savior and King that was foretold and prophesied about in scripture, long before He arrived.

He was openly against religiousness. World religions are man's way of connecting with God or feeling spiritual. God showed man how He feels about us doing things our own way in the story of the tower of Babel, and when Jesus rebuked the religious people.

It was established in the example of God's relationship with Israel that man cannot keep all of God's laws on his own without help, nor can he impress God by attempting to be righteous and good. It was proven to all mankind that we aren't capable of fully pleasing God on our own. (Rom. 3:23)

The nation of Israel was chosen by God to be a living example to the rest of the onlooking world, as to who He is, what He wants, and what He requires from us in order to have good relationship with Him.

When it became apparent to the Israelites that they could not keep His laws perfectly (as required), thus-enter, Jesus ... the Messiah and Savior.

Of course, the big wigs of Judaism didn't recognize Jesus when He came, due to the fact they were expecting a literal, earthly King, and probably some huge fanfare and coronation ceremony. Yet, Jesus quietly entered the world in humility.

Even the people of His own town where He grew up didn't recognize who He was, though His entire life from birth to death - were spent fulfilling the Messianic prophecies in the scriptures.

Some Jews did recognize Him, and followed Him. Ironically, the Scribes and Jewish religious leaders who were looked upon as the most righteous, wise and Holy of God's people, didn't recognize Him. They wanted to get rid of Him.

God has desired personal relationship with every individual from the beginning. He made it quite apparent in the story of Adam and Eve, and in His relationship with Israel. We weren't created and designed to live our lives without God being involved in them.

So once God showed man that He is incapable of keeping all God's requirements for this - on his own, He sent the Messiah to make it possible for us to have relationship with God through Jesus, who paid our debts of sin for us.

Jesus didn't come to start a world religion. He came so that everyone could easily and freely get into personal relationship with God.

God even foretold of His Son's coming a long time before He came. Jesus didn't come so that the world could come up with a new religion. He never endorsed or condoned religion. religion and legalism are man's ideas with which to connect with and impress God.

Jesus is God's way to know and have good fellowship with God. Jesus is a "person" - in that we can meet and know Him, and relate with Him interactively. He isn't dead, like Muhammad and Buddha and other founders of religions.


God is Holy, and when people think their works or performances can impress God they are mistaken. What impresses God, is when we readily desire and take possession of His free gift of grace and mercy, by inviting Jesus into our lives, and following Him in obedience.

If we do, it is nothing like joining a world religion or becoming a member of some kind of club. It's a relationship.

Jesus gives a person a brand new life and intends to take His followers on a journey of changes that ultimately will develop His own character in us, and take us into victorious living, experientially.

It isn't a "cake walk" for the genuine Christian. In fact, the Christian life is a life of sacrifice and laying down one's own life; his aspirations and fleshly desires, to follow in the footsteps of our Lord.

Of course, Jesus is our ultimate coach, cheerleader, and encourager. His love for us is outrageous. The benefits of His love and comfort surpasses any that this world offers, and we are promised a Heavenly home in His presence for eternity.

He didn't tell us that following Him would be easy, and many followers "get off the train" and walk away when they confront a place where they are no longer comfortable.

Yet the apostle Paul said: " For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us." (Rom. 8:18 )

I grew up in a home full of abuses. My family never talked about God, nor did we pray, read the Bible or belong to any church or religion. Yet, at five years old, I innately knew there was a Creator, and I was determined to find out how I could meet Him.

As a teenager, I asked friends and representatives of various religions how I could meet God personally.

Some of them gave me confused stares. Others began to explain their religion's doctrines and how it all works. Some people told me to "go to church". but they could not answer what I thought was a simple question.

one day, a friend of mine came to school completely changed and different. Even her demeanor seemed to glow and whatever she had - was contagious and intriguing.

I asked her what had happened to her, and she told me she had "met Jesus last night". I asked her who Jesus was, and as she began to describe Him, my heart pounded in my chest with excitement.

I instantly knew I had found the way to meet God. I recognized Jesus as the truth and the answer to everything.


On March 6th, 1977 I had a surprise encounter with Jesus via the Holy Spirit that changed my entire life in less than five minutes. I was so dramatically changed by it, that it had a domino effect on my family and friends. Atheists have told me it was a hallucination.

I always tell them if it was a hallucination, then it's the only one I've ever had and it has lasted thirty-four years. I say: "If it was a hallucination, I recommend it to everyone."

It has been the best relationship I have ever known, that has only gotten better over time. Jesus healed me from all the painful scars of abuse when I met Him, and has given me a great life.

I understand now, the scripture which states that He came to give us life and life more abundantly above all that we ask or think. (Jn. 10:10) The difference between Jesus and the founders of world religions is that Jesus is not dead. They however, are.

World religions distract us from the simple truth that God wants personal relationship with all of us. He always has. It's not complicated.

Yet, religions keep their people so busy following and performing the tenets and doctrines of their particular religion, that they cannot see that all that God wanted from them is to trust in and rely on His Messiah and Savior in personal relationship.

http://www.helium.com/items/664978-who-is-jesus-and-what-does-he-mean-to-us?page=3

Strangely enough , atheists on Nairaland are beginning to lose it, honestly.

This thread was started for the purpose of deriving opinions from other bible believing scholars, yet again, we see our troll pals all over the article.

Guys please respect yourselves oooo !!

https://saharareporters.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/news-page-images-480-wide/page_images/news/2012/jonathan_clinton_0.jpg

The United States has again dismissed Nigeria’s anti-corruption efforts as mere talk, describing the Goodluck Jonathan era as one in which the government is not implementing the law, and officials engage in corrupt practices with impunity.

“Massive, widespread, and pervasive corruption affected all levels of government and the security forces,” it said of Nigeria in its 2011 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices, which was submitted to Congress by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton. The department submits reports on all countries receiving assistance and all United Nations Member States to the U.S. Congress in accordance with the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 and the Trade Act of 1974.

“There was a widespread perception that judges were easily bribed and that litigants could not rely on the courts to render impartial judgments,” said the report in its segment on Nigeria. “Citizens encountered long delays and alleged requests from judicial officials for bribes to expedite cases or obtain favorable rulings.”

It described the efforts of the Economic and Financial Commission (EFCC) as “largely ineffectual,” and stated that President Jonathan in November 2011 removed the EFCC Chair, Farida Waziri, after credible allegations appeared that she was engaged in corrupt practices.

“Public officials, including the president, vice president, governors, deputy governors, cabinet ministers, and legislators (at both federal and state levels), must comply with financial disclosure laws, including the requirement to declare their assets before assuming and after leaving office,” noted the report. “Violators risked prosecution, but cases rarely came to conclusion.”

Notable here would be President Jonathan, who has refused to declare his assets, igniting speculation as to the depth and spread of his wealth, and how that may be responsible for his fear of confronting corruption, including prosecuting Mrs. Waziri after firing her for “credible allegations” of corrupt practices.

On other subjects, the performance of the government was also indicted. For instance, on “Respect for the Integrity of the Person,” the report stated that the government or its agents committed numerous arbitrary or unlawful killings. This would corroborate the argument of many Nigerians about the inability of the security forces to solve crime, and that the government is responsible for them.

“During the year the Joint Task Force (JTF)...conducted raids on militant groups and criminal suspects in the Niger Delta and Borno State, resulting in numerous deaths and injuries to both alleged criminals and civilians,” said the report. “According to credible eyewitness accounts, the JTF committed illegal killings during attempts to apprehend members of the extremist group Boko Haram (“Western education is anathema,” in Hausa) in Borno State and surrounding areas.”

Similarly, the report said that security service personnel, including police, military, and State Security Service (SSS) officers, regularly tortured, beat, and abused demonstrators, criminal suspects, detainees, and convicted prisoners. “Police mistreated civilians to extort money. The law prohibits the introduction into trials of evidence and confessions obtained through torture; however, police often used torture to extract confessions.”

The loudest and most damaging comment in the report is to be found in three words: “at/by year’s end,” in the sense of futility and the Nigerian government’s penchant for long, drawn-out, inconclusive activity, such as prosecution or investigation, during 2011.

Examples:

The Code of Conduct Tribunal commenced the trial of former governor of Lagos State Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu...There was no decision in the case by year’s end;


In October the EFCC arrested four former governors...Ogun governor Otunba Gbenga Daniel, former Oyo governor Chief Adebayo Alao-Akala, former Nasarawa governor Alhaji Aliyu Akwe Doma, and former Gombe governor Muhammed Danjuma Goje. Their trials began in December and continued at year’s end.


In May 2010 authorities arraigned former PDP national chairman Vincent Ogbulafor on 17 criminal counts of corruption and money laundering in the amount of 2.3 billion naira ($14 million). Ogbulafor filed a petition to dismiss the charges. There were no new developments in the case by year’s end.

In August 2010 Attorney General Mohammed Adoke announced that the government could not authenticate the Pius Okigbo Panel report on former military president and General Ibrahim Babangida, which charged that Babangida mismanaged 12.4 billion naira ($76 million) during his administration. The civil society group Socio-Economic Rights and Accountability Project (SERAP) accused the attorney general of a cover-up. A federal high court was scheduled to announce a ruling on July 28, but did not do so by year’s end.

Civil society groups introduced a number of cases at the national and state level to test the FOIA during the year. For example, in September the SERAP brought a case against the Oyo State government after being denied access to information on state funding for primary education. The case continued at year’s end.

On September 12, members of the police unit Operation Famou Tangbei (OFT) raided the home of Freddie Philip Ockiya in Yenagoa, Bayelsa State. Members of the OFT arrested Ockiya and took him to the local police station. His family searched for him until September 21, when his body was discovered at the morgue. The family filed a suit against members of the police and government in a federal high court. The inspector general of police disbanded the OFT in late September, but authorities did not arrest any members of the OFT in connection with Ockiya’s death by year’s end.

In April 2010 the Maiduguri High Court found that in 2009 police detained and subsequently killed Baba Fagu, the father-in-law of then Boko Haram leader Muhammad Yusuf, following violent clashes between police and militant members of Boko Haram in four northern states in 2009. The court ordered the federal and state governments to pay 100 million naira ($617,000) as compensation to Fagu’s family. The Borno State government challenged the Maiduguri High Court’s decision and appealed the judgment. At year’s end the case remained in the Court of Appeals in Jos, Plateau State.

In 2009 soldiers arrested Muhammad Yusuf. Credible media reports claimed that police executed Yusuf, whose bruised body subsequently was seen at state police headquarters with multiple bullet wounds. While police initially admitted killing Yusuf in custody, they subsequently claimed he died while trying to escape.

Buji Fai, a former state government official suspected of funding Boko Haram, also reportedly died in custody along with Fagu. Later that year, then president Yar’Adua pledged to conduct a full investigation of the Boko Haram uprising, including the circumstances surrounding Yusuf’s death, but authorities had not publicly released the results of the investigation by year’s end. On July 19, five police officers were arraigned in the federal high court in Abuja for the murder of Yusuf. The court granted bail to four of the officers, while one remained in custody. The case continued at year’s end.

A panel established by Plateau State to investigate the killings of approximately 700 civilians by security forces in the Jos North local government area in 2008 attributed the violence to provocation by religious leaders as well as violence by political parties and local government officials. The panel’s full report, released in April 2010, linked persons wearing uniforms to impersonate police with many of the killings; the report did not find definitive evidence of police or military involvement in extrajudicial killings. By year’s end authorities had neither charged nor punished anyone for the killings. In February 2010 President Jonathan called for a second investigative committee following an outbreak of violence earlier in the year. In September 2010 this body, known as the “Lar Committee,” submitted its recommendations... However, the committee’s recommendations had yet to be implemented, and neither the federal nor the Plateau State government set up truth and reconciliation committees by year’s end.

Police use of excessive force, including live ammunition, to disperse demonstrators resulted in numerous killings during the year. For example, on February 11, Ekiti police reportedly shot and killed five persons protesting the announcement of the relocation of a federal university to Oye-Ekiti that the state governor previously had promised would be located in the Ado-Ekiti community. Authorities had neither charged nor punished anyone for the killings by year’s end.

On August 14, police in Anambra State reportedly shot five persons at a roadblock after they would not pay a bribe of 20 naira ($0.13). One of the passengers reportedly died at the scene, while the other four were rushed to a hospital, where they were pronounced dead. Eyewitnesses stated that the driver claimed to already have paid 20 naira but could not produce a receipt that the policeman demanded. When the driver attempted to leave, the police opened fire. A police representative confirmed that one person was killed and three were rushed to the hospital. There were no developments in the case by year’s end.

For example, on October 16, police reportedly shot and killed Victor Emmanuel in Bayesla State after he criticized the police for extorting money from passing motorists on the road from his church. On October 28, police officials announced that the accused officers received an “orderly room trial” that could lead to dismissal or prosecution; however, the case remained pending at year’s end.

http://saharareporters.com/news-page/us-government-dismisses-nigeria%E2%80%99s-war-against-corruption-hot-air

https://saharareporters.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/news-page-images-480-wide/page_images/news/2012/Vaswanis_may.jpg
How The Vaswanis Loot Nigeria: The Brothers Get N6 Trillion Waiver, Presidency Connection-National Standard Magazine

NIGERIA might not agree with India on certain isms in religion, marriage, or politics. There is, however, a language they both speak and understand in business and politics. That is bakshish - the Indian word for bribery.

And the Vaswani brothers, the Indian owners of the Stallion Group for the past three decades, have used it so effectively that they are now one force to reckon with among the Asian imperialists said to be controlling about 30 percent of Nigeria's economy - thanks to globalization. The Vaswani brothers now speak the said language as they face myriads of fresh investigations into their business activities by several institutions, including a National Assembly Committee, the Police, at the Special Fraud Unit, SFU, of the Force Criminal Investigation Department, FCID, States Security Services, SSS, and the Presidency.

These probes, like others, if sincerely and dutifully carried out, may have a devastating outcome, including, but not limited to, the likelihood of deportation of the Vaswani brothers, who have been twice lucky. In the event of this deportation, it will be the third time in eight years. The alleged crime has never changed; its dimension has only got wider.

Lagos Metropolis Is Not Necessarily Better Than Mumbai In India. But There Is An Allure In Nigeria That Keeps The Vaswani Brothers Coming Back Even When The Country Feels It Has Had Enough Of Them.



Sabotaging Nigeria

New Delhi believes that its nationals, like the Vaswanis and other Indians in Nigeria, are actually strengthening the economic tie between the two former British colonies.

Mahesh Sachdeva, the Indian High Commissioner to Nigeria, gleefully declared on May 1, 2012, that the bilateral business relationship between the two third-world nations has grown to $16.4billion. But the slew of sharp practices - which appear more like sabotage - trailing Sunil, Haresh, and Mahesh Vaswani, has made the partnership a lopsided one.

Nuhu Ribadu, former chairman of the once dreaded Economic and Financial Crimes Commission, EFCC, knows how tightly these brothers have gripped the veins of Nigeria's economy. He first ran them out of the country in 2002, but they clawed their way back. ''It is very glaring the nation won't enjoy much prosperity, especially in the domestic economy, as long as the Vaswanis remain in Nigeria,'' the former anti-graft czar once reportedly lamented. Tongues in the presidency are wagging as feelers by way of petitions reaching it allege that between 2002 and 2010, Nigeria lost about N150.8 billion in over-invoicing, waivers abuse, and tax evasion to the group's import business. But for some hunch, they would have strung Nigeria along again in a N200 billion car importation waiver proposal and N150 billion in the Badeggi, another rice deal production nearly sealed by the Vaswanis and their Thailand collaborators.

Something else that effectively cripples Nigeria's economy in the manner they conduct their business is capital flight, which results from repatriation of profits, in dollars, back to the United Kingdom, Dubai, India and other countries where they have businesses. A 2009 study of the Global Financial Integrity estimated that Africa lost $903 billion that year, and about $800 billion annually. Nigeria, according to the report, topped the losers' list.


NASS Digs in

Maybe the deluge of petitions the seven-man Senate Committee on Privatisation received on the alleged economic crimes of these Indians will be heavy enough to confirm that the brothers hold Nigeria in the jugular. Economic analysts have always argued that it will take some doing for the country to really get industrialized with its current expansionist import policy. The Stallion Group particularly appears more obsessed with dumping goods on the economy. With its 15 subsidiaries and a conglomerate of fronts in Nigeria, the group imports practically anything from rides to rice. That is one way of keeping Nigeria a perpetual consumerist nation, unlike India that is, to a large extent, known for its booming technology, health exports and manufacturing.

The Vaswani greed may have led to their latest scam in the acquisition of the Volkswagen Nigeria Limited, VON. The Senate is already convinced Nigeria has been short-changed in the sale of the company.

Very revealing are the video clips of the Senate Committee's fact-finding visit to the VON office in Apapa, Lagos, almost six years after sale.

The vast premises of the former German-Nigerian auto plant are now a bonded terminal, one of the three bonded terminals the group owns in Lagos. That conversion of a key driver of an economy into a storage facility is illegal, going by section 1 of the Memorandum of Association of the automobile company.

What further throws more light on the shady deal is the account of a 24-year old business romance gone frosty between Kashim Bukar Shettima, owner of the Barbedos Group. Shettima, in 2006, bought Nigeria's 35 percent in Volkswagen for N612million, shortly after the brothers, who also bid, were deported. Although they were poles apart

after then, the bond remained fairly strong between the Vaswanis and Shettima. “I made every effort to get their return,” he asserted. The brothers had won the bid for N400million in 2003, but a rice importation fraud pitted them against former President Olusegun Obasanjo who had to fling them out of the country. Yet Shettima ensured the Stallion Group was running on autopilot until 2007, when the late President Yar' Adua, after a business luncheon, brokered by their Nigerian beneficiaries during his first visit to the United States, okayed their come-back.



Their Mafian Style

But the Indians came back with a vengeance. They had registered and incorporated a Barbedos Virgin Island (BVI) in the UK, in February, 2005, with which they later partnered with Shettima's Barbedos, Nigeria Ltd, as Overseas Partner, to acquire the remaining 35 percent Federal Government stake in the company.

Petitioning the federal government and the National Assembly, Shettima said the Vaswanis cheated Nigeria by short-circuiting due process, under a company called Avolon, to acquire Germany's 51 percent in Volkswagen. According to presidency sources, it was a breach of the pre-emptive rights of the federal government of Nigeria stated in section 151 of the Companies and Allied Matters Act 1990.

The BVI, however, had their reason. The National Council on Privatisation was aware of the under-hand deal. In a letter dated August 25, 2005, Atiku Abubakar, former vice president and chairman of the NCP, was informed by the Bureau of Public Enterprises, under Irene Chigbue, to waive Nigeria's pre-emptive rights to acquire the 61 percent shares of the German partners.

While Abubakar knew then that the Vaswanis had been banished from the country, he blinked over the BPE request.

Again the debt of about DM 4 million that VON purportedly owed in Germany was another point in favour of the Vaswanis. They claimed to have settled up Germany, thereby making VON indebted to them. Shettima is, however, strongly of the opinion, in some of his representations to the presidency, that the credit arrangement was fraudulent because the auditing firm that investigated VON debt profile, Robert Ade-Odiachi & Co, said that the debt was non-transferable.



How they Bury Car Assembling Finally

Whichever way the sale eventually swung, the BVI outwitted the Federal Government, as always! And in that case, Barbedos Nigeria, to the Vaswanis Shettima has always known, will be no great shakes. The BVI worked it such that Shettima is now left clutching at 17 percent of the share, right in the glare of the BPE, Corporate Affairs Commission, and other regulators. While he is busy alleging sabotage and fraud, the Vaswanis have turned the VON into a bonded terminal. Nearly six years after, the plant still remains a shadow of itself. Some parts, covered in the Senate Committee video, are empty; other sections, 24 of them, warehouse vegetable oil, rice, fertilizers, and nine other products. There are also about 30,000 cars and hundreds of containers bearing imported goods on the premises. Given the necessary incentives, local entrepreneurs could have been producing these goods to further stimulate the economy. But the Stallion Group feels there is faster and bigger buck to make as an import monopoly,
using such facilities for hoarding imports, than just grinding out 'beetles' in Nigeria.

It wasn't always like this in the Nigerian auto industry. There used to be three car assembling plants, and five heavy vehicle plants in the country. And Obasanjo's idea of privatizing the VON, the only one surviving, in the 2000s was to revive the industry, and lower the prices. He made his concern known to the 40 industry stakeholders, led by Ade Ojo, chairman of Elizade Motors, who met in Aso Rock on February 1, 2000. The Honda Place, responsible for the automobile aspect of the Stallion Group, was not part of the meeting because of the Vaswani notoriety in the industry. But at least the President came away with some information: that the Vaswanis had been chiselling Nigeria through under-invoicing, underpayment of duties, VAT, surcharge, mischievous classification, and cargo diversion. Other malpractices of the brothers include use of containers to import vehicles, unspecified description of vehicles, and use of obscure ports. The Senate Committee on Industries that dug into the allegations later stated in a report dated February 16, 2001 that Nigeria lost N10 billion to the Vaswanis in the process. They merely got a slap on the wrist at the end of the probe.



Knowing What to Keep

What gives the Vaswanis this unfair advantage is their ability to arm-twist government for concession. They have been enjoying it over the years, especially during the military era. As tight-fingered as Obasanjo's administration was, it took a lot of resistance for him not to swallow their bait on a rice production proposal. The list of concession the Stallion Group requested include tax holiday, free land, zero duty on agriculture equipment imported, and others. They, however, pushed things too far in 2002 when they colluded with Thailand exporters. In a report ENB/SEC Vol.1, 22 August, 2002, originating from the Nigerian embassy in Thailand, detailed how pre-shipment inspection was used by the Vaswanis to import 1.5 million metric tons of rice, the world highest then, at little return to Nigeria. Shipment, supposedly inspected from Thailand, would come in cleared. According to the Mohammed-Waziri-led probe panel, N800 million was lost to the Vaswani crookedness. They took off, like jack-rabbits, when Ribadu turned on the heat.

When they were allowed back into the country in 2007, they brought along their Thai friends, and coaxed the late President Yar' Adua into accepting a proposal on rice farming. Nigeria was to plonk down N150billion and give them land. They ran out of luck again when they made another criminal move - clearing a vessel that was yet to set sail from Thailand, a practice those who know them too well told this magazine, is their stock-in-trade. Like a cat with nine lives, they bounced back into the country.

And they have been having a swell time in Jonathan's administration since. Waivers and tax exemption are lavish.

Between August and December 2010, Jonathan granted the group two waivers. In a letter referenced BO/B10260/TUB/LA/156, the finance minister, through the director of finance, Daniel Joel Tayelaiye, granted Energy Resources Management Ltd, one of their fronts, waivers of import duty, ETL, CISS, and other port charges' on 250,000 metric tons of imported rice.

Similarly, ERM got a waiver for 250,000 metric tons of vegetable oil in December and another 250,000 of the same commodity by Connotation Concept Nigeria. As at February this year, the Vaswanis secured duty waiver for another 250,000 tons of vegetable oil, enjoying similar concession. To make a kill, ERM has continued to use the waivers all these years when each could only last a year. Investigation shows that they have used the 500,000mt duty waiver which is 20,000; 20 feet containers to import and clear double i.e 1,000,000mt or 40,000; 20 feet containers and most of the cargo and containers are still lying in their various yards in Lagos. Total duty waived was USD 220,500,000 (two hundred and twenty million, five hundred thousand dollars) for the 500,000mt that is N 35.280 billion.



The London Meeting

In their desperation to perpetuate themselves in the VON deal, the Vaswani brothers split themselves to not only monitor but to also trail the movements of some top government functionaries that are close to President Jonathan.

They managed to trail two top Presidency insiders first to Geneva, Switzerland and then London. It was in London that they finally sealed the deal that robbed Shettima's Barbedos Nigeria Ltd of his well deserved stake in VON.

With some other close aides of Mr. President in their pockets, the brothers moved in on full assault of Shettima's business, sealing off his warehouse premises with containers in full glare of the public thus preventing him to take delivery of his goods while they kept their own warehouses busy; loading them with imported items such as rice, fish, iron rods and brand new cars to mention a few.

To seal the fate of Shettima and to prevent the expected backlash from the Senate committee on Privatisation, as regard the VON matter, the brothers with the help of the President's close associates sought the services of a two time former Attorney General and minister of Justices. Kanu Agabi (SAN) to seek relief from a Federal High Court in Abuja. Part of the relief was to restrain the Senate Committee and the EFCC from hindering their illegal operations in the country and also to foil any attempt to rescind their ownership of VON in spite of their non-performance.


Hands in Gloves

These businessmen have all the liberties because when they speak bakshish, people listen. It will surprise few Nigerians that the Vaswanis are being piggybacked into the country, after every deportation, by those that ought to keep an eye on them. There have been allegations that certain ministers, including a highly placed ex-NAFDAC official, are sympathetic to the family. And Mohammed Adoke, attorney-general of the federation, along with his predecessor, Michael Aondoakaa, isn't exactly exonerated. The two kept the EFCC on a short leash anytime the commission is after the Vaswanis. Adoke, for instance, ensured that the EFCC looks to him for legal direction whenever taking a suspected economic criminal to court. For instance, a summary, with a reference number HAGF/SH/2010/Vol 1/32, was written to and received by the presidency on May 25, 2010. There the Attorney General of the Federation, AGF, recommended that the security agencies should respect court judgement granting the Vaswanis relief against being deported or arrested.

Adoke further counselled that the Federal Government should also honour part of the court judgement which awarded a compensation of N5billion to the Vaswanis. Adhering strictly to this legal advice, President Jonathan reportedly released the said sum which however found its way into the pockets of prominent Nigerians who are business allies of the Vaswanis. National Standard investigation revealed that between 75 and 80 percent of the hefty compensation was shared among these highly respected Nigerians.

Also zealous about shielding the Stallion Group and its owners are certain sources, mostly chiefs of staff, within the presidency. Major General (rtd) A. Mohammed, former chief of staff to Yar' Adua, used to play the mother-hen whenever the EFCC hawk swooped on the Vaswanis. He nearly pleaded for them in his letter entitled Re: Revocation of Deportation Order to the EFCC, requesting the commission to review “these facts (earlier listed) with a view to attaining justice to all parties”. Similar letters, in an intercessory tone, were sent to the ministry of interior and the office of the president to save their scalps. The current chief of staff, Mike Oghiadomhe, as revealed in some documents available to National Standard, equally watches out for the Vaswani interest in Aso Rock. To pave way for their last return, the big shots at the presidency argued that the return of the Vaswanis would assist the EFCC conclude it's investigations into allegations of gross economic crimes levelled against them. Checks by National Standard at the anti-graft agency showed no sign of any investigation since their return. "That is a no-go area," said a senior operative of the commission who did not want his name in print. He however added that the new leadership of the EFCC can only dare the Vaswanis if Mr. President distances himself from the Indian-born businessmen. Going by some kind of relationship tree, this magazine discovers it is just about six degree, or less, separating Atiku from the Indians. They are familiar strangers. Their path might have crossed when the former vice president was a senior officer with the Nigeria Customs Service. And the familiarity could only get better. Since their interests are always well represented in Aso Villa, they drop in on any President any time. They can flout their orders, too like they did NCP chairman, Vice President Namadi Sambo's.

According to presidency sources, they cut the second citizen of the country dead when he invited the warring VON shareholders for negotiation. And Jonathan can't hammer them either. He's morally bound to give their waivers proposal a favourable nod. The Stallion business was said to be among the deep pockets that bank-rolled Jonathan's campaign last year. That the BPE and CAC overlooked the brazen forgery of seal, an allegation against the BVI in one of the representations to the presidential committee of enquiry is more proof the Vaswanis are omnipresent. It worries Industry watchers. “The report was a confirmation of the earlier letter written to the CAC by the BPE exonerating the Vaswani brothers and BPE of any wrong doing,” says one of the concerned Nigerians watching the development closely.


Security Allies

The biggest fan of the brothers is the Nigeria Customs Service, NCS. The agency has never found any fault in the operations of the group over the years. Even when the House Sub-Committee on Customs, headed by Hon. Gummel Abdullahi, ordered the NCS to probe the company, following a petition from the Automotive Marketers Association of Nigeria, the result, as contained in a report marked NCS/INV/08/00/AB/HQ, gave The Honda Place a clean bill of health. The Customs was also involved in the Thailand importation scam where a shipload of rice yet to leave the exporting country was already cleared in Nigeria. Although the Vaswanis hoard their imported goods in an assembling plant, the NCS still approved of it as a bonded terminal.

National Standard can reveal that the Vaswanis in connivance with some Customs Officers imported 1,000,000mt (40,000 20ft containers) and the duty lost to the country on this transactions amounts to N 70.56 Billion (seventy billion, fifty six million naira). On the various criminal manipulation of the economy, the Indians out of which carry British passports, will be carting out a total income of N6.981 trillion (six trillion, nine hundred and eighty one billion naira). The sales and import were in the name of Masco Agro Allied Industries Ltd (Stallion wholly owned subsidiary).

One can't just dismiss how much the chummy relationship between the NCS and the Vaswanis has cost Nigeria. In 2007, former Finance Minister Esther Nenadi Usman told Nigerians that the NCS was milking the country dry.

The Nigeria Police, which often come under serious attack for their corruption profile, appear not to be willing to miss out of the action. While the case of shareholding dispute is in a Federal High Court in Abuja, the BVI used its influence to purportedly seal-up the VON premises, especially the part that belongs to their rival in the VON ownership battle, with police officers.

The Vaswani controlled warehouses, however, remain a beehive of loading and off-loading. As of May 4, months after the Senate Committee mission, the police were on guard as over 150 cars, out of the several thousand parked on the Apapa bonded terminal were driven out to another of the Stallion Group terminals in Lekki, beside Mercedes Benz, in Lagos. The security agencies are believed to always be their friends.

The Vaswanis, this magazine learnt, used them to cow the DANA Group and other competitors when Tafa Balogun was Inspector General of Police, and also due to overbearing influence by former VP. "So it would be music to the ears if the cops didn't help the Indian business mafia cover their track," another source wondered.

The Senate Committee would have to follow-up on its probe to rescue the economy from the Vaswanis.
Many believe something, hopefully, may give at the end of ongoing investigations as President Jonathan has reportedly warned that if there is any established fact in the allegations of gross economic crimes being perpetrated against the country by the Vaswanis, they may not be third time lucky.

The Senate Committee is already asking for the Share Purchase Agreement to be rescinded and re-advertised for non-performance. The report also ordered the EFCC to examine the sleight of hands used to cheat Nigeria out of its share, and the boardroom war raging among the VON shareholders. While the tone of the committee findings now may sound harsh, Sunil, Haresh, and Mahesh fear no evil.

They'll get justice, and will be safer as soon as the EFCC is liquidated, going by the recommendations of the Orosanye Committee on Public Service Reforms. Or the panel report could also disappear -like thousands of others before. For how long will those who have the responsibility to protect and grow local content (including the Ibrahim Lamorde-led EFCC) in Nigeria's efforts at becoming one of the top 20 industrialised nations of the world by the year 2020? The British, Indian and UAE authorities and Nigeria's cannot claim ignorance of these economic abracadabras being practiced by the Vaswanis; only time will tell whether they would be brought to justice this time around.

Uncanny savvy

On good authority, National Standard gathered that the brothers have desisted from coordinating their operations from their registered offices. The Indian staff in the Stallion Group, sources revealed, carry the data for importation, supply and sales in their lap tops from where they control the movement and delivery of these items.

The reason behind this change of operation is none other than the need to elude the officials of the EFCC who had a well structured raid on the Vaswanis in 2002. To avoid a repeat performance of the well orchestrated clampdown, the brothers resorted to keep every business detail and operations mobile. The bank details are said to be also stored in these laptops to the extent that no matter the invasion by security agencies no incriminating information will be found. The strategy is also made easy by the fact that they have their main operational bases in their homes to which they hardly allow anybody access. They are again believed to have a highly restricted office.

Sources within the banking sector also disclosed to this magazine that about N130billion has been borrowed by the Vaswanis from three banks (names withheld), using VON premises as collateral while original title documents to the properties are with Kashim Shettima, their rival, so how did they get the mortgage and perfect it big? This may just be another case of high level forgery. National Standard Intelligence will continue investigations to establish the authenticity of these fresh allegations.

http://saharareporters.com/news-page/how-vaswanis-loot-nigeria-brothers-get-n6-trillion-waiver-presidency-connection-national-s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPDhdkkbOd8

God the Father and Jesus Christ are ONE and the SAME.

Isaiah 9:6 - "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

1. Child is Born - Jesus
2. Called a SON - The SON of GOD
3. Government ( universal ) will be on His shoulders

4. He will be called :

a)Wonderful Counsellor

b)Mighty God

c)Everlasting Father

d)Prince of Peace.



Case closed !!

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:293, also). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam. Prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars.

Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad (Arabic).

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).

Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand" for Allah is with you,"

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted?

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status.

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

Quran (61:10-12) - "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity." This verse was given in battle. It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

BetaThings: ^^^^^
The mourning they are talking of has to do with religious service and prayers
It is a duty imposed by islam on the entire muslim community
Muslims don't make prayers for DEAD non-muslims
This is actually why Muslims encourage whoever wants to become a muslim to do so quickly

God forbid !!!!

May God comfort their families !!

What do you expect from this section with an extremist moderator by the name of maclatunji

I am not comfortable with this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2UQFAAbKWc

logicboy: I was a christian for 22 years. Feel free to explain "lost sheep of Isreal" and why the Canaanite woman was not part of the lost sheep of Isreal.

I am sorry but there is no way you could have been born again of the Spirit of God and remained the same. Even a backslider will not talk the way you do because s(he) once had the touch of the Holy Spirit.

In other words, you were a nominal or professing Christian, not a born again Christian - Fact !!

logicboy: Isnt this proof that as Nigerians christianity is not meant for us? Jesus came for the lost sheep of isreal and to him, the others are dogs. Racist

Honestly logicboy , you are not making any logic

You don't believe in God, leave us to wallow in our ignorance, abi

Goshen360: Thanks for this the article. For those reading this article and to clear the mis-conception or mis-understanding in the article, it doesn't mean people should not attend church anymore but that the church system is "now" polluted and corrupted "like" the world system. Today, there seems to be no "clear" difference between the world and the "called out" of the world, the church. This is a call to be "different and be separate" from the "harlot" church which is becoming normal.

Thank you, forsaking fellowship is not advised under any circumstances, please !!!

There are still the 'called out ones ' in most of these churches, meet with them , pray with them , fellowship with them and pray for the entire physical church but most importantly the body of Christ.

Thanks again Goshen360.

Think Christian, think hard, pray and ask for God's Wisdom (Jas 1:5), His Holy Spirit leading you to all truth (Joh 16:13). Remember how God called Abraham out of his homeland (Gen 12:1)? Remember that Church means a called out body of believers, not an physical, material institution (see Strong's G1577). Near the end of the book of Revelation God is calling His People out yet again (Rev 18:4). The “Church” has fallen away from God (2Th 2:3), is conformed to the world (Rom 12:2, 2Th 2:10-12), and even frequently commits spiritual fornication with the world (Rev 14:8, 17:2, 17:4, 18:3, 18:9, 19:2)! The worst is yet to come for the so-called “Church”. Just as He destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD, He IS going to do the same to the Harlot Church and those that do not harken and obey His command to come out of her!

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Think of all the false doctrine's this man-made religious institution called the “Church” has given you? Isn't it obvious that if you stay in her you'll be physically destroyed? Following that logical conclusion, won't your soul also be relegated to the Lake of Fire as well? Yes, of course it will, but, it doesn't have to be that way. Care enough about God’s Word to study it, rightly divide it (2Ti 2:15) and recognize where you should be and where you shouldn't be, whom you should seek fellowship with and who not to (2Co 6:14) A Christian must know who they are in Christ!

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Come out of the “Church”, warn others to do the same. Accept your spiritual birthright, you are the Israel of God, you, the believer in Christ, not the unbelievers who call themselves Jews and Abraham’s descendants. As for them, pray for them and preach the good news to them, don't help them to store up God's wrath against themselves, as they are surely doing now.

When the Messiah started His ministry He said He came only for the “lost sheep of Israel”. They were lost sheep because their “shepherds” had led them astray:

Jer 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

Join me and my brothers and sisters as we seek to call today's lost sheep of the true Israel of God out of the “Church”, join us in the true Israel of God, and come out of the man-made temples of false doctrines, idol worship and spiritual fornication.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Pray always,

Daniel Mark

Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Luk 1:53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

Luk 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
Luk 6:21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
Luk 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
Luk 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
Luk 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

This is the state of today's “Church”, totally corrupted by and conformed to the world. Completely removed from its original calling, which is to gather a people out from the world, call them out of the world as God called Abraham out, and to remain faithful to Him and obey His commandments. Instead, the average “Christian” is as corrupt and immoral as the pagan non-believer, divorce rates are as high or higher, infidelity, hard-hearted, giving only to family, if that, not to all who ask. Wanting old Covenant punishments for all others, but New Covenant forgiveness for themselves. Far more interested in the things of the world than the Word of God, and happy to pay others to tell them what they want to hear, rather than study God's Word for themselves. Delighting in the false doctrines of prosperity and raptures and wars, et al. They have become, just as the children of Israel 2,000 years ago, a people who won't recognize their Messiah and their Messiah will not know them either when He returns (Mat 7:21-23).

Worse than not knowing Him, they now align themselves with a group of condemned blasphemers who DENY His Coming, His DIVINITY, and all the things He FULFILLED on the CROSS (Joh 3:18 )! The Bible is crystal clear on the gathering of the Tribes of Israel, it can only be done by the Messiah (Deu 30:3), and concerning the physical descendants of Abraham, none can be blessed, or be brought back into Covenant with God until they acknowledge the Messiah (Mat 23:39)! The result of nearly 200 years of Dispensational, or duel Covenant Theology in the churches' has been the creation of a false religion known as Judeo-Christianity, which of course is an oxymoron: how can you join one religion that believes its Messiah hasn't yet come, to one that believes He has come? To deny Christ is of the antichrist, plain and simple (1Jo 2:22-23). If your “Church” leaders won't tell you that, then you are obviously going to the wrong place to learn about the Bible.

Why is it so important to understand the True Israel of God (Rom 11, Gal 6:16) is spiritual, like as the kingdom of Heaven? Why do you need to know that a True Jew, or Israelite is one who's heart is circumcised (Rom 2:29)? Why do you need to know that the true Temple of God is the body of Christ, the believer (2Co 6:16), and not a physical building the unbelievers want to restore in Palestine? Because it is the essence of the New and Better Covenant promised by all the Old Testament prophets, of which Jesus Christ is the mediator (Heb 8:6, 12:24).

2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Because, only if you know these things will you truly be able to be in Covenant with the LORD. You must know who you are in Christ in order to be truly saved, to fulfill your duties and obligations and to not be deceived as most in the “Church” are. The truth is not taught in the “Church” any more, as Paul said “sound doctrine” is no longer tolerated (2Ti 4:3).

The “Church” has convinced a majority of Christians that they are “saved” regardless of what they do or believe. They have deceived you into giving up your birthright in Christ to a group of unbeliever's in Satan's counterfeit “Israel”. Becoming spiritual Esau's, when, of course you need to become as Jacob (Rom 9:13)! They've made merchandise of you and the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and you've made them rich in the process, hoping and lusting after riches yourselves. The religious hierarchy, whether it be massive like the Catholic “Church” or some of the larger denominations, or just a pastor in a small local “Church” that inserts himself between you and the True Mediator of the New and Better Covenant, Jesus Christ, have been deceived, and now deceive whoever stays in their man-made temples (2Ti 3:13), teaching for doctrine the traditions of men and not the Commandments of God (Mat 15:2-6, Mar 7:8-13, Col 2:8 ).

What could cause so many to fall away from the Word of God? To not know the time of His coming, to recognize their savior (Luk 19:44)? The same thing that happened to most of the lost sheep of Israel has happened to the so-called “Church” today. They've exchanged the Word of God, or commandments, for the traditions of men (Mat 15:3-9). The book of Daniel points to the time of the Messiah (Dan 9:24-27). Isaiah points to the purposes and conditions of His coming in much greater detail (Isa 7:14, 8:14-15, 28:16, 42:1-4, 49:1-7, 50:4-9, 53:1-12). Had the Israelite's of the time of His coming studied the scriptures, they would have known and been ready to receive Him, but, just as today, they listened to men who told them what they wanted to hear, not the truth (2Ti 2:15, 2Ti 4:4, Tit 1:14).

Take heed from the stories in the Bible regarding the children of Israel, and do not fall into the same traps and snares they did (1Co 10:11). Today's obstacles to salvation are even greater than then. 2 Th 2 tells us that in the last days there will be a “great falling away” preceding the return of Jesus Christ. We are clearly in these times as most of the professing Christians in the world look to their governments for guidance, and abide by the laws of man over the commandments of God. The Word of God has been so twisted and distorted that's its original meaning is lost and God's “children” don't care, in fact many take pleasure in their man made traditions and idols, such as their church buildings and flags and books, CDs and DVDs, supposedly Bible-based, that leads them away from the Holy Spirit and to follow the flesh. The great falling away of God's “people” has caused these lost souls to covet wealth and self righteous adulation in their false temples, known as churches. To support the wars of the devil's kingdoms, and to practically worship a condemned people and a forsaken, desolate piece of land in the middle east.

Take a few minutes here and think these things over carefully: Are you following God's commandments or the traditions of men when you support the government's wars? The Bible tells us that the whole world lies in wickedness (1Jo 5:19) and that the kingdoms of the world belong to Satan (Mat 4:8-9). Why would a “Christian” let him or herself get talked into fighting for Satan's kingdoms?

Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

2Co_10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds )

Despite all the scriptures to the contrary, most self proclaimed Christians still think it's a good thing to fight for the kingdoms of the world. No matter what country you fight for or against, it's still Satan's! Therefore, only Satan can win when his kingdoms fight against each other in the flesh. If you've read and understood this you know you've been misled, you've been deceived by the very thing which you've been taught was supposed to teach you about God and His Word, the “Church”, instead they've led you into breaking His Commandments.

Another grievous example of man’s traditions taking precedence over the commandments of God is in the area of money. Despite several warnings from Jesus, self pro-claimed “Christians” still chase after wealth and material possessions like the pagans do (Mat 6:32). Pastors implore their congregations to give more and more, they need bigger Church buildings, more people in the Churches, more of everything, bigger houses, more expensive clothing and cars.

With the promises of material gain for themselves, many Christians think what the Lord intended as giving as your heart leads (2Co 9:7), is really a religious stock market, or a magic money multiplier. Instead of making disciples of Christians and leading them to endure to the end and salvation, the modern religious leaders are more like CEOs of corporations that are judged by the balance sheet, and not the character of their congregations, a perversion of the purpose of assembling together for fellowship and worship of God.

You're not under the law, you aren't required to give 10 percent of your earnings, although the religious leaders like you to think that, but as was said above, Christians are to give as their heart leads, not under compulsion, not under false doctrine, but cheerfully, from a pure heart, expecting nothing back. Think carefully about this Christian: why would the LORD lead you to chase after that which makes it harder to enter into Heaven? Is the purpose of the Church to make money or to gain salvation for the lost?

Two thousand years ago most of the children of Israel rejected their Messiah, the Lord God destroyed physical Israel, particularly Jerusalem, and its Temple (Mat 23:38, Luk 21:20-24), which had been turned into a place of merchandizing by the religious hierarchy (Mat 21:12-13), as today's Church has also become. Instead of animals to sacrifice they sell books, tapes, and CDs, promising greater prosperity in all the things of the flesh. No matter how wonderful you think your pastor or favorite televangelist is they have no right to sell the Gospel. Claiming it to be a tithe is still selling the Word of God. No matter how the issue is spun, the Bible says freely you have received, freely give (Mat 10:8 ). They are the modern day Pharisees. They, like their spiritual ancestors, keep the truth of the Gospel from their congregations, and make their disciples into twice the children of hell they are (Mat 23:15).

The promises, originally given to Abraham and his physical descendants (Gen 12:1-3, Gen 17), were now given to believer's in Jesus Christ only (Rom 15:8, Gal 3:16), and the children of physical Israel that weren't killed in the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD were scattered and made captives of all the nations of the earth (Luk 21:24). The apostle Paul likens Israel after Jesus' finished work on the cross as an olive tree. Believers in Jesus are grafted in to the olive tree and non-believers are torn out of it. It isn't a matter of the “Church” replacing Abraham's physical descendants as Israel, it's the Lord God rejecting those who rejected His only begotten Son. Moses prophesied the day:

Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

And Peter, on the day of Pentecost, restated the prophesy to the children of Israel, and warned them again:

Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

And many other warnings were given to the children of Israel, but still, only a few thousand repented and believed on Jesus as their Messiah. They, along with the gentiles who believed, became the Israel of God (Gal 6:16). Israel after the flesh would shortly be destroyed, but those that hearkened(Act 3:23) unto Jesus would avoid the destruction and flee Jerusalem as He warned them to do (Luk 21:20-21).

Why wouldn't they hear the Messiah?

Mat_17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

It isn't that they weren't told to harken, to obey, they were (Deu 18:15, Act 3:22-23), but, they didn't believe He was who He said He was.

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Joh 5:41 I receive not honour from men.
Joh 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

b]

lagerwhenindoubt: Hmmm. I think it all boils down to maturity in the real sense of the word. (especially when it comes to RELIGIOUS and SOCIAL matters)
1: Maturity to take criticism whether it be downright abusive or unabashedly harsh and inconsiderate - if criticism does not spark interest, it should be rightly ignored so discussions can continue, you are not obliged to reply in answer to what you do no agree, it is an option in every argument, it does not mean you agree or disagree, it simply means you have chosen not to reply.
2: Maturity to demonstrate common-sense by reacting or acting in a manner that does not prolong or instigate or provoke negative counter-responses from your criticizers. It is not worth stating your case if a position has already been formed and your discussant is making his point based on a "fixed" assumption, hypotheses or based on popular propaganda or trends. If you do not feel it is worth your explanation, let it slide.
3: Maturity to accept that you do not know everything and cannot claim to know everything based on Historical Knowledge & Facts ,Faith or hunches. This obviously is an inherent weakness in RELIGIOUS themes.

Indeed.

The comment I made was not abusive or harsh in anyway, it was simply an opinion I made in response to the following comment by a Muslim.

As regards prayers on non-muslims, due to Islam's stance on shriku, we as muslims are not meant to pray for dead non-muslims. We can only pray for them to be guided to the straight path while they are alive, once they are dead, no prayer can be answered on them anymore because they died as mushrikun; ..........A muslim that sins is better than a puritan mushrik, this is the stance of Islam on matters like this.

My comment here, was that Muslim or Christian, if we die in our sins, no amount of prayer can save us, we will be eternally condemned from a Christian scriptural standpoint.

This is the reason for the ban !

Guys and Gals I know that last year we used to post endless articles in the ISLAM section, this has all but stopped.

Now and again, I go there to add a few comments , but even that is too much for the moderator maclatunji.

Constantly we see muslims coming to this general forum to comment on our articles and we accept them without complaint , though sometimes we find them offensive.

What is going on here