₦airaland Forum

phase1:
You don't even sound literate. Who is debating Hepatic cancer and cirrhosis with you?
I called you out because you inferred that Medical scientists who went through in pathogenesis, medical microbiology, virology, mycology, bacteriology during his training and even see disease causing agents everyday under his microscope should not discuss diseases.

Go to YouTube and watch Medical scientists teaching medical students pathology topics.

Scientists teaching medical student pathology? Well, I may agree with u. Lab scientists taught medical students microbiology practical. Some with PhD can also teach them few topics in microbiology. That's true but when u say pathology, hope u know we are not only talking about micro, but morbid anatomy, haematology & chemical pathology all of which are taught by pathologists.

Amarabae:
And why can't he talk about health issues?
A clinical lab scientist talking about hepatitis and you insecured bunch of expired medical practitioners are having issues with it!
Lord have mercy!

If you haven't faulted this post according to the level of knowledge you have i would have taken u serious but haven spotted an error, it means that those who have much knowledge in medical science see the post as not as informative as it should be cos it is flawed with falsities. & so, it is advised he gives advice only on what he can defend (in dis case, his post should be restricted to the topic, medical laboratory perspective of hepatitis b. Test specificity & so on.)

asaretolulope:
People are quick to insult on this kind of thread because of the perceived hatred between Doctors and other allied health professionals. Which by my reasoning would not end soon.

This write up as much as it's educative is riddled with flaws.
Liver cirrhosis is not same as liver cancer

A medical lab scientist offering to offer treatment I feel is wrong. While not stick to prevention diagnosis, false positive, false negative. and refer to a doctor. (separation of powers and knowing litations)

Nothing like contraction in medicine it's called mode of transmission. Mother to child is the commonest route. And it might take years to manifest. Even till the child becomes an adult.
While some have it and remain asymptomatic for life.


It's the internet age, anybody can write anything. It's left for the reader to have discretion but sadly in our environment so many People are misled.

If u look at previous comments you will see where i posted same. But they almost killed me with abuses.

phase1:
You are being insecure but ashamed to admit it. A medical Scientist is primary a diagnostician and have every right to discuss diseases. In school, you cannot be able to understand the principle of diagnosis of diseases if you have no grasp of the disease pathogenesis in the first place. Can you go to Prof. Tatfeng a medical scientist (who lectures even your senior colleagues) and tell him to discussing diseases.
No medical Scientist comes of the university without studying medical microbiology (which this topic falls under) and other fields of pathology and therapeutics. Be guided.

Finally, I noticed you are bias & intractable in any matter that has to do with issue like this. Never quote me again as it is obvious ur duty here is to incite ur colleagues against the other.

SoloceeD2:
You're as disgusting as your ego and it's very stupid of you to think he cannot talk about hepatitis B because he's not a medical doctor. Virology is not owned by the Nigerian doctor.

Delving into what you have little knowledge about can be misleading. I never criticized him but stated that he should have concentrated on the laboratory diagnostic aspects of the topic. There are different diagnostic arsenals that can be used & besides some are flawed with false positive results. will it not make sense if he tells us y people who are positive will test negative? will that not interest u? will it not create awareness?? wetin be ur own self??
I do not insult people otherwise.....

aribisala0:
What is a lot?
Who says we don't see death by hepatitis You sound like a person with half knowledge.Do you have any data on the mortality rates ?


Hepatitis is a chronic condition

Your idea that it was only in 2017 that it became an issue frankly is daft.

In many countries you cannot work as a doctor or health professional without vaccination .This has been the case for over 20 years

You are too quick to insult people. The guy is asking question that requires ur immediate response not insult(s)

LadyJasper:
What is your point? I can't find where the OP claimed to be a medical practitioner, he clearly stated that he was speaking as a medical laboratory scientist and you can't say they don't come in contact with this issue being that such tests are conducted in a medical lab. Please stop fanning this ember of fire, it doesn't pay to be a warmonger.

It would have make sense if he had concentrated on the diagnostic(laboratory) aspect of the infection.

I viewed this thread to see the medical laboratory perspective of hepatitis B virus & infection to get updated, maybe something new that I'm not aware of but didn't pick any other than what is known.
That said,
I want to say that hepatitis b(HBV) infection is a chronic infection & in most cases, it is self limiting & or asymptomatic.
only about 1-5% of patient develop fulminant hepatitis.
About 0.5% will develop cancer of the liver..

Facts should be stated clearly esp when educating people .

nelszx:
Oga go and sleep if people with academic acumen are talking you should hide your face.

Are you still here??

So this thread is finally death?? was really enjoying it o
where is Mr MLSD( Phase1 & Nelszx)

TempoJames:
You see the reason why a johesuite can never get to the helm of affairs,why one must not risk putting the health sector into johesu's hands n why they can never be same with medical doctors in terms of training,reasoning and strategies? How can you compare a medical school affiliated to a teaching hospital to a technology school? I guess uptill now u never knew that teaching hospital and consultants in d respective fields are WHO's major criteria for accreditation of medical schools.

I think you misunderstood me. I actually meant it is anomalous for a scientist to head a pathology department.

TempoJames:
I talk of classic schools and international best schools ..u r talking of lautech...which medical doctor will like to teach in technology school? All medical doctors teaching clinical courses are consultants and d medical school must be affiliated with a teaching hospital. uptill date, no medlab scientist nears d class room or is HOD of microbiology in college of medicine of UNN,UI,UniBen,OAU,All saints university, canada

Not just those.... every sch has similar structure except for logistic reasons

bmlsbmls:
it seems you still don't comprehend my point. Here at lautech, medlab scientists with only BMLS degree are technical officers when it comes to practicals while med lab scientists who have undergone further studies are lecturers. Even the HOD of medical microbiology dept at osogbo is a med lab scientist. You can confirm that if you're still in doubt. In fact, there are more lecturers with MLS degree in d dept of medmicro than doctors

is that medsch accredited?? cos I know the requirement is pathologists should teach medical student in yr4.

MrBigiman:
Some Universities are not in the world medical directory, but almost all Nigerian University doing medicine has made it there. Johesu has made Nigerian medicine backward and a laughing stock. A state of emergency must be called in the health sectors and all lazy and untrainable Johesu member must be shown the way out. Doctors is the last string holding the health sector from Colapse.

You are doing well. Educating people online is an herculean task. I commend you

docadams:
It is actually Ph D.However, MBBS suffered a misfortune recently due to the ineptitude of NPMCN. But efforts are on to correct the anomaly with the NUC.

Pls educate me. What's the misfortune about?

sogodihno:
Op u know by fresh doctor they are not talking about house officer, but junior registrar?

You mean a registrar is a fresh doctor??
Do you know that some doctors practice for over 15-20years before starting residency?? how us such a doctor a fresh doctor?

worlexy:
Oluwasanya said: “When the result came, we discovered his Premature Ventricular Contraction (PCV) was nine per cent and his white blood cell count was about 48,000+, which was extremely high and indicated an infection. The doctor said he needed three pints of blood.

https://www.medicalworldnigeria.com/2018/05/classmates-blame-pharmacy-students-death-on-johesustrike2018/?utm_source=&utm_medium=twitter


See the evidence that you drug dispensers know nothing, imagine a final year pharmacy student of OAU calling PCV(-Packed Cell Volume) Premature Ventricular Contraction

I read that earlier & was wondering what the hell it was.

worlexy:
Show us the prescription bearing the two anti allergy (of the same class not an anhistamine and a steroid o) or keep quiet

I'm also waiting for the drugs.

Angelfrost:
And you sir should also continue with your unbecoming arrogance, and ungainly need to be condescending. Just go and learn the meaning of "Professional Courtesy"... If it existed in this backward nation, this strike by johesu would have died a natural death. Thank you.

You talk too much

Angelfrost:
The same can truly be said about your ilk. You are taught to believe pharmacists know nothing about pathology and patho-physiology... Hell, y'all actually believe you are gods of healthcare, while others are expendable... It's not your fault that you lack professionally courtesy, it seems to be a Nigerian anomaly.

Continue with your knowledge

duffyng:
We are not talking about such knowledge as structure of drug, functional group of a particular component of a drug.
we are interested in the therapeutic indications/applications of these drugs. We are talking about the pathological basis of disease & how those drugs can modify pathology. Doctors have much knowledge in this area.

I beg to differ to the above yes doctor's know more about pathological basis of disease, but drug indication and how drugs can modify pathology even the modification of concentration of drugs to get an effect, these are areas the doctors can not beat a well trained pharmacist.and be informed that the structures of drugs are important in their therapeutic indication, that why in a team a doctor ask the pharmacist to give him suggestion of drugs as he plans his therapy for a patient. We forget often that in all the patient is king

who is a well trained pharmacist & who is a poorly trained pharmacist!? what is drug indication?
if u do not know a pathology how will you be able to modify concentration to affect the pathology??

.

Amarabae:
I thought you are talking about the former (structure of drugs and all that)
But in your later, yes doctors are more knowledged than pharmacists due to their mode of training but that does not mean that a clinical pharmacists is a big novice in all you are talking about.
.
I use to frown at those calling for privatisation but now it looks like the right step.
Privatise the health sector and sanity will return.
Let government focus on monitoring and regulations

There u go again, will you compare a clinical pharmacologist with a clinical pharmacist?

Amarabae:
A pharmacist knows about drugs more than a doctor.
You want to argue that.
I always see pharmacy from the industrial angle than clinical

We are not talking about such knowledge as structure of drug, functional group of a particular component of a drug.
we are interested in the therapeutic indications/applications of these drugs. We are talking about the pathological basis of disease & how those drugs can modify pathology. Doctors have much knowledge in this area.

Jman06:
I cited an example and you are now trying to twist my points into an unnecessary argument. I know there are different types of seizures and i also know the different classes of drugs used in their management.
Like i stated before, there are many different types of drugs in use today and they all have their interactions. The pharmacists know these interactions better!
The problem with Nigerian physicians is that they think they know it all and with such mindset they kill many Nigerians. That's my concern!

I understand u are a student. you soon will leave the classroom to face what is obtainable in practice. Then you will choose to adhere to some of the things you've bin told in sch or to unlearn them

Amarabae:
You don't understand my point,
We are in Nigeria where there is no strict regulation,
I was talking about simple malaria and typhoid with NO COMPLICATIONS.
I wrote it up there.
Are you telling me that Many Nigerians who treated themselves of malaria and typhoid went to a hospital and met a doctor?
They only go if after buying drugs from pharmacy and it didn't go.
Many Nigerians when sick love to patronize private medical laboratory and then head to a pharmacy with the test results,
They find it cheaper.
Pharmacists are no novice when it comes to health issues, they are treating people and prescribing in their pharmacy,


And it is working well for some people.

Pharmacists know their boundary, that's why they always say that after taking a drug, if symptoms persist after 3days,see your doctor.


That's my point

...& as knowledgeable as u exude, you think that's the right thing to do? when complications set in thats when they will think of hospital. well, it's obvious u guys know the right thing but chose to twist facts just to score points. pls learn to call a spade a spade.

worlexy:
Your last paragraph sum it up that you're in training so I pardon your ignorance. First in the case of Erythromycin and carbamazepin that you sight. A 400L medical student knows the basic things about enzyme inducers and inhibitors and drug interactions so what gibberish are you talking about?
second you said a patient was given a drug in the hospital by physicians and the patient died, so you don't know about Adverse drug reaction, or anaphylaxis which can happen to anybody as a reaction to drug, don't people have natural atopy and allergic reaction like asthma that has killed them? Some people even have food allergy.
if Adverse drug reaction is not a possibility with some medication why did NAFDAC bring about pharmacovigilance form?

Like I said, I pardon your ignorance because you're still a student. Study hard, I wish you the best

Unfortunately, that's what they are taught in pharmacy school. They are taught to believe that doctors do not know much about drug

Jman06:
I stated that as an example. Besides, it's easy to do a google search on just that. There are many more interactions!

That's rude bro... Google search? for something I have much knowledge than u do?

Jman06:
I stated that as an example. Besides, it's easy to do a google search on just that. There are many more interactions!

So you feel a Doctor does not know that erythromycin is a cytochrome P450 inhibitor?? Again, Do u think a doctor will prescribe Carbamazepine to a patient having seizure simply because it is an antiseizure drug?? Do u know there are various types of seizure(what u called Epilepsy)? Do u know antiseizure drugs are classified so u can also give Carbamazepine to 10yr old having akinetic seizure?
No need correcting u as that's what u are told in ur pharmacy school.

Jman06:
You were making sense until the last paragraph of your post where you displayed a gross lack of knowledge of the roles of pharmacists in healthcare delivery!

You should have just done a little research on the roles of pharmacists in those two countries you cited as focal points and in other developed countries of the world.

For your information, Pharmacists do not only dispense drugs in those countries, they are involved in direct patients contracts through ward rounds and counseling. They check physicians' prescription errors, drug-drug interactions, drug-food interactions, drug-disease interaction, and other possible interactions that could occur in the course of pharmacotherapy.
Ever asked yourself why Nigerian healthcare system remains abysmally poor despite government's investments and medical doctors being at the helm of affairs since Some of the reasons can be traced to other healthcare professionals like pharmacists not being allowed to put in their bests in patients care. How i wish that Nigeria could make autopsies compulsory before those who died in hospitals are interred. That will reveal so much about how Nigerians die avoidable deaths from drug errors and improper use of drugs when they go to hospitals.
Take a scenario such as this: An epileptic patient who is suffering from lower respiratory tract infection at the same time, he goes to the hospital and the physician prescribed a combination of erythromycin (an antibiotics for his infection) and then carbamazepine (an anti epileptic). Assuming there is no pharmacist around to correct such wrong combination, do you know that the patient would come down with carbamazepine toxicity with the resultant organ failures leading to his death This is just a tip of the iceberg!! Several of these interactions occur both in inpatient and outpatient settings and has led to the death of many!

Haven't you heard of cases where a man left his house to the hospital just to get treated of minor ailment only to die in the hospital following administration of some drugs prescribed by the physician Drugs are very dangerous substance that can either save a man if judiciously used, or KILL him if wrongly used. Pharmacists know drugs and their actions better than physicians as a matter of fact.
Knowledge of pharmacology which physicians have is not enough to make rational drug decisions since the important concepts of pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics are not discussed in details in most pharmacology textbooks, hence pharmacists study them further in clinical pharmacy. Some physicians i.e clinical pharmacologists may have some knowledge in this regard, but mainly for the purposes of research and teaching, besides they are very few.
So, the role of Pharmacists in hospitals cannot be overemphasized. If not, the developed nations you cited in your post wouldn't recognize them as key stakeholders in their hospitals to the extent of appointing them as CONSULTANTS.

N:B, I'm a pharmacist in training and my interest is not in hospital pharmacy but in pharmaceutical manufacturing industry. However, the truth has to always be stated regardless of our biases.

So you feel a Doctor does not know that erythromycin is a cytochrome P450 inhibitor?? Again, Do u think a doctor will prescribe Carbamazepine to a patient having seizure simply because it is an antiseizure drug?? Do u know there are various types of seizure(what u called Epilepsy)? Do u know antiseizure drugs are classified so u can als give Carbamazepine to a patient having absence seizure too??
No need correcting u as that's what u are told in ur pharmacy school.

Amarabae:
God bless you.
Heading a hospital is an administrative skill that can be carried out by any professional.
He that holds a man down holds himself.
That's a proverb that best fit the NMA

The reason u see things work in other countries is becos the people are wise, a nurse won't practice medicine. but in Nigeria, a med lab scientist is operating in full capacities of a doctor, he treats patients in his lab. Pharmacist practice medicine by virtue of their knowledge of drugs. Remember, these people do not know the pathological basis of disease that an exclusive of the doctor. For every disease, there are diagnostic protocols that should be followed.



This is the problem will face in Nigeria.
You want to Head the hospital so as to bastardize the system?? that's what JOHESU is clamoring for but it won't work.

Solababa91:
Please go check the meaning of hospital and run back here to edit what you posted up there. Hospital is meant for a patient, not for any Personnel. I do not know where you got your earlier assertion from. Just the way an Hospital cannot stand without a Medical Doctor is the same way it can't be a standard hospital without a Pharmacist (who will formulate, dispense or cross check or give prescriptions, or without a Physiotherapists (who diagnose, treats and rehabilitate patients as the case may be or a Med Lab Scientists that gives a Doctor a clearer picture of a differential diagnosis or a Nurse... etc. It is only that Nigeria health sector do not have boundaries in each job jurisdiction or clear cut description (or better still the laws are not bounding) if not a Doctor would not believe he can perform all the roles in the hospital and all other team members are irrelevant and should not be well remunerated. In saner climes, a doctor performing the role of a Nurse or vice versa would be jailed and same to all other professions too.

we are saying the same thing but it appears you are mixing up two independent variables.
I agree the hospital need a pharmacist, a lab scientist, a Nurse, a physiotherapist, etc to function.....but u should know that laboratory medicine is a branch of medicine & some doctors called pathologists specialize in that field....
Radiology is a branch of medicine, doctors who specialize in radiology are called radiologists...
Those specialists are by hierarchy suppose to be the head of the subspecialties they are in. That is how it should be.

An obstetrician(a doctor) can't head the department of surgery simply because he's a surgeon. in the same vain an opthalmologist can decide to head the department of medicine simply because he's a doctor.
MBBS is just a common ground on which they can relate at the same level. A pathologist by virtue of his training as a medical doctor & a lab clinician should head the lab... he has an all round training in laboratory medicine so should be the head
Pharmacy is not a branch of medicine neither is nursing that's y a doctor will not decide to specialize in those listed.