₦airaland Forum

Workch:
Is your argument not trying to prove the possibilities of a god?
I have agreed with you but if I am going to agree that any god exist then it has to be the Flying Spaghetti Monster or I can start my own religion by creating my own god.

Does that matter to you?

No, Im.only trying to educate you that we have no way of knowing anything for sure. We go by preponderance of circumstantial evidence, including black holes, dark matter, you yourself. So stop acting like it only applies to "spiritual"!

Workch:
no, his experience was caused by the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

That’s logical enough

Do you know it is possible that we create reality with our beliefs. That's how weird things could possibly be.
Quantum physics has show that certain particles exist only when someone is watching!

Workch:
Thanks for agreeing that your god is a creation of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

You keep referring to my God when I'm trying to have an intellectual discussion. You are just like the ardent religionists - out to defend a viewpoint instead having an open minded discussion

Hismasterpiece:
I told you of my experience in the night some years back.. Which I still can't forget till this day... That experience alerted me to the fact that there are people among us whom we can't see.

As for proving the existence of God... It doesn't need to be proven... I don't need to ascend to heaven and take a selfie with God to prove He exists..

God doesn't need proof... It already is obvious.. Look at creation.. Look at the stars.. Look at the sky.. Ponder on the vastness of the universe.. Look at yourself.. Everything screams intelligent design.. There has to be a God...

The logical question isn't whether there is a God or not but rather... Since there is a God, then what is the right way to Him? Is it Islam? Buddhism? Hinduism? Christianity?

If you can come down to that plane then we can have a sweet discussion

That your experience in the night doesn't prove anything. It could have been caused by a million things. Even brain neurologist have shown your brain alone can make u feel a touch without stimuli or see someone when no one is there

Workch:
seriously I know nothing, I agree.

But I believe that your god was created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Do you agree?

You can believe whatever you like. Question is, is there circumstantial or experiential evidence to support it

Workch:
Do you agree that your god was created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

So now you've been educated. I know u thought u were this logical and intellectual atheist. Now you've been taught u know NOTHING.
The same preponderance of circumstantial evidence that establishes your existence also establishes the existence of God. Neither of you can be proven for certain.
Now u know.
Ciao!

Workch:
Whether or not I believe in evolution is still not evidence that unicorn and your god exist. You still have to provide evidence for your god if not it doesn’t exist

That’s the point

See above

Workch:
Ok, I don’t exist.

How does that prove that Unicorns exist?

That’s how your reasoning sounds like

Point is, you can't be selectively asking for proof. Everything is based on approximation and preponderance of circumstantial evidence. There is no circumstantial evidence that unicorns exist or flying spaghetti monster

Workch:
ok, evolution hasn’t been proven and I don’t believe in it.

So how is that a plus for the existence of you imaginary friend?

Why is that not a plus for the existence of unicorns?

Why don't you believe in evolution that is perfectly logical and has evidence to support it. Are you saying that when the universe was born human beings existed?

Workch:
Even if I don’t, it’s not evidence that your god exist.

Don’t you get it, because A doesn’t exist is not evidence that B does.

You are the one shouting "prove to me that God exists", when in actuality nothing can be proven to exist including you yourself.
Lol, before this talk I bet you thought you knew certain things for sure. Now you have been shown you know nothing for certain.
Everything is approximation and preponderance if evidence. Even the brain u r using to think, you don't know what limitations and defects were intentionally built into it. Bottom line: you know nothing!

Workch:
i think you are arguing because you have no evidence.

I won’t accept it if I can’t test it. It’s as simple as that

So prove to me that you exist outside my head. Prove it to me!

Workch:
How do you think I don’t know the true nature of reality when even every illiterate in villages have the default setting of accepting god?

People in the hinterland who don’t even know basic biology think like you that gods exist. I think you should check you definition if reality

Kids who can’t even think for themselves think gods exist. How is that reality?

What is he saying? My friend I mean, you have NO WAY of knowing if reality exists exclusively and entirely inside your head!

Workch:
So why haven’t they proven it’s consistency by allow people to test it. Those are claims that hasn’t been tested and hence can’t be called evidence
just go and win one of the multimillion dollar bounties?

How can you actually "test" anything when you don't know the true nature of things. Prove to me that you exist. You can't even do that. Bottom line, everything is an approximation, preponderance of evidence. Don’t scapegoat religion because everything you think you know for sure is also susceptible to doubt!

Workch:
Tel me the law of physics that was disobeyed.

Let’s see how knowledgeable you are about this topic and even it it disobeyed it. In science we accept new evidence, whether or not we like.

If it disobeyed so what’s the problem with that? We follow the new evidence and discard whatever we knew.

Learn to do that

That's the point, we have no way of knowing the true nature of reality, so you can't go about saying God does not exist. YOU DON'T KNOW!!

Workch:
Proof is mathematical

Consistency of result means it’s reliable.

No result at all like spirituality means it’s can’t be trusted. Provide one line of consistent result then see me change my mind

So spirituality is no result at all? How about all these people testifying everyday about miracles and how their lives were tandformed? Explain placebo effect, Mr. Proof

Workch:
Atheism is not a disbelieve in the existence of god, it’s a act of belief that gods dont exist because religious people haven’t provided evidence and are trying to fill every gap with their gods. If you provide evidence then I will change my mind.

No one also knows enough to be sure that god exist. Every religion only tries to create unquestionable answers for the questions. It’s better to have question that cannot be answered that provide answers that cannot be questioned like religion does.

We don’t know so don’t fill the gap with god. Wait until we find out. I am an atheist because there’s no evidence that it exist, if I see one I will change my mind immediately.


I see that you don’t understand quantum physics else I don’t see how quantum physics has disobeyed laws of physics. You need to read up abit on how quantum physics works.

My friend, but you haven't provided evidence that God doesn't exist either. You should say "I don't know" and stop there. You have just been shown that NOTHING can be proven to exist including you yourself yet u r still arguing
As for quantum physics, see below

Workch:
your argument is fallacious, it’s called a Tu quoque fallacy, because a lot of stuffs hasn’t been proven doesn’t not mean spirituality is correct. There’s no invention in science and technology today that is not a product of a proven scientific law or theory.
Religion hasn’t proven anything in regard to spirituality. You can’t disprove what hasn’t been proven.

A lot of thing have been proven and that why stuffs work. Your internet connection cannot work is electromagnetic spectrum hasn’t been proven. You can’t even make phone if various scientific theories and laws have not been proven, stop being economical with the truth and just accept that you have to provide evidence for your claim.

My bros u have it mixed up. Consistency of result is not proof. Just as your waking up everyday does not prove that you exist. Once you accept that you have no way of knowing anything for sure then. "proof" is ridiculous. Explain the below:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVhiwceUpk8

Workch:
I am not close minded.
If you provide a testable evidence for any god, I will change my mind.
People become atheist because religion never gives evidence for whatever they say.

It is religion that is close minded and dogmatic not atheism. It takes a lot of courage to drop whatever you have indoctrinated with form birth, dogmatic people rarely do that.

Bros nobody knows enough to be an atheist. Infact you know almost NOTHING. At least religionists say they BELIEVE, they don't say they logically know. Here's what I wrote above:

If you start with the premise that we don't know, and have no way of knowing, the true nature of reality (which is the only reasonable place to start), then ANYTHING is possible. Nothing can be known for certain - everything is based on preponderance of evidence. So, you are being mischievous selectively asking for absolute proof only when it concerns "spiritual", when there is no absolute proof for anything. Even things we were sure of have been proved wrong. Until quantum mechanics we thought the LAWS of physics always applied. Even "I think therefore I am" that was sacrosanct for millenia has been proved to be wrong!

hopefulLandlord:
You didn't read mine. "some" experts agreed with there being some realm we can't see due to some unexplained happening. I'm saying we just can't explain it. that's the truth. anything else like "spiritual" claims is pure guessing that has no proof
Nope, I said there's no proof for the existence of supernatural. More often than not whenever a so-called supernatural claim is made and then scrutinized we realise there's physical explanation behind it.

Bros, if you start with the premise that we don't know, and have no way of knowing the true nature of reality (which is the only reasonable place to start), then ANYTHING is possible. Nothing can be known for certain - everything is based on preponderance of evidence. So, you are being mischievous selectively asking for absolute proof only when it concerns "spiritual", when there is no absolute proof for anything. Even things we were sure of have been proved wrong. Until quantum mechanics we thought the LAWS of physics always applied. Even "I think therefore I am" that was sacrosanct for millenia has been proved to be wrong!

brosom:
My dear spirituality is so damn real!!

Just woke up fr noon sleep now and discovered I had swollen something from the other side, i slept back and continue from the exact dream, then coughed it out back and woke up..

Spiritual is real, I mean like seriously Real..

Only a fool will say not

But what you just described is physical
It was all in your head, including "the other side"

Psoul:
When the whites came here and stole most of our traditional stuff, deity, head of masquerade and so on, they did not know what they were doing.
Na so dem go dey see ghosts everywhere.
Some of those ghosts want to come back home to Africa where they are treated fine.

Lie, lie

raphy:
This your moniker be like say u de share free igbo no take offence bro
Na the thing ppl see ..

No o my bother. Na that Igboho guy. Wetin im do? Abi na crime to dey carry fake juju?

Righteousness2:
There are Principalities, Powers, rulers of darkness and spiritual wickedness in high places in this world.

Almost Every event on Earth today, are first carried out in Spiritual realm.
Infact It is Spiritual realm that Controls and Orchestrates the Physical realm.
Living life Just anyhow or living in denial of this is what Has Destroyed so many people.

This is why in this Journey of Life , there is need to Know JESUS and Have a Solid relationship with HIM.

Just asking o...

How come countries focusing on physical realm are always more advanced than those focusing on spiritual realm (Naija, India)?

How come tiny Britain defeated and colonized huge India and Nigeria with physical guns despite all their juju and spiritual realm??

How come we are not always seeing these type of things caught on cameras in advanced countries, where there are cameras everywhere?

(BTW I believe our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, is far more powerful than any other forces out there)

Authoreety:
I pity those people that still don't believe that the spiritual controls the physical... That's more reason you have to be deeply rooted in the word to be able to place principalities and power under control...

Fake Prophet, how come these things never happen in advanced countries where there are cameras everywhere?

Workch:
Becoming an atheist frees your from mental slavery.
I am mentally free from stuffs like
1. Village people.
2. Hell or heaven.
3. Threat of curse
4. Scams from pastors.

I also see clearer from a practical point of view without bias. I am free from cognitive dissonance. I laugh when people talk about spiritual things as there are no evidence to measure their existence.

Atheism makes you a mentally free person, not a lot of people have the courage to become atheist.

There are other huge benefits

But becoming an atheist, though comforting, makes u a close minded person. It takes away the most Important and most fundamental stetement: "I may be wrong".
As I wrote above: We don't know, and have no way of knowing the true nature of reality. And what we know is likely not up to a millionth of what there is to know

hopefulLandlord:
and
1)
what did these "previously skeptical EXPERTS" concluded? did all sceptics admit those events are definitely spiritual or only those that admitted it are the ones being talked about while those who still weren't convinced are ignored? I'm assuming it's the latter

2)
This is where it gets interesting. I will not accept any spiritual explanation for any event I can't explain. this is the sensible thing to do and history supports sceptics like me as physical explanations have been replacing spiritual explanations throughout history. better still ask yourself how many times in history has a physical explanation replaced a spiritual one? go on your own research then research on how many times a spiritual explanation replaced a physical one. check your result against each other with no bias and make your own conclusion

1) You obviously did not read my sceenshot. They concluded there is more to us than just our physical bodies. There is no field that all experts agree

2) I never asked you to accept anything. You are the one saying definitely there is no supernatural. I said previously we don't know, and have no way of knowing the true nature of reality, and that we likely don't know up to a millionth of what there is to know

Hismasterpiece:
do you have anymore stuff like that to post.. if so kindly post.. hopefulLandlord answer him na

They are all over the place.
I know one thing for certain: humans do not understand, and are incapable of understanding the true nature of reality, nor do they know a millionth of what is to be known about reality and the universe.

hopefulLandlord:
it's kinda hard explaining the happening behind an event of another which is impossible to investigate and one which I wasn't involved in

These are things investigated and documented by previously skeptical EXPERTS.
How many events have you been involved in or investigated? You accept all the following on the words of others: covid vaccine, black holes, earth is round and revolves around the sun, history, moon landing, stars are HUGE, quantum theory, E=MC², etc

For real?

Hismasterpiece:
so you are a believer in the supernatural

have you ever experienced anything supernatural before?

Once again, we are NOT discussing belief. What I believe is irrelevant. View and read my screenshots above again. Like I asked hopefulLandlord (with an open mind), how do you explain these things?

Hismasterpiece:
are you a Christian?

We are discussing possible existence of a supernatural based on documented and verifiable human experience. Respectfully, focus on that

Hismasterpiece:
Don't you think they would have stopped ages ago if what they're doing doesn't work?

The fact that this practice has continued for centuries doesn't that tell you something?

Not necessarily. Many things continued for thousands of years that were false - worship of gods like Zeus, etc and miracles by them, world was flat and center of the universe for thousands of years, etc.

On the other hand, hopefulLandlord and kingxsamz, how do you explain the following?: