₦airaland Forum

Near1:
I would say that given what we know about the Universe, the probability of an Intelligent Designer is close to absolute zero.


Irrelevant. And not true. I have no need to worship something.


Why do you assume it is a “who” and not a “what”?


That’s just pure rubbish. Products of subjective mental processes.

Watch this and you will get an idea about how your brain actually works and how you think. Believing that you know how some God thinks and acts is just plain hubris. HellVictorinho, LordReed, Hismasterpiece, KnownUnknown


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lyu7v7nWzf

You are a funny guy, you present a video that supports everything I'm saying, yet u r still arguing.
Below are things the guy said

HellVictorinho:
Ask him to tell you what he saw in the dream he had within a dream

You people lost the argument because u refuse to acknowledge things as they are.
Bye bye

QED

HellVictorinho:
Lies don't make you mature


You can't have a dream within a dream


You can't die within a dream

You are a child. People die in their dreams all the time

LordReed:
LMAO! Which ancient? The ancients that thought the world was flat or the ones who thought sickness was caused by demons.

Your capacity to cogitate is what allows you to formulate a view of the world, it doesn't mean you should think a freaking movie is real.

The movie happens to be a perfect metaphor for our likely situation.
Even an ancient man knew enough to know that the only thing he could possibly be sure of was his own existence because someone had to be doing the thinking: "I think, therefore I am"!
Bye bye

HellVictorinho:
Answer the question and stop claiming to be right


There's nothing special about claiming to be right

Your questions are childish. ANYTHING you can do in real life you can do in a dream and in a dream in a dream and in a dream in a dream in a dream...
Stop being childish

HellVictorinho:
So,you went to sleep in the dream?

Meaning?
Stop making childish argument. You know what I'm saying is right

LordReed:
If you have any gods prove them, it's that simple. I

You keep robotically saying prove it when I've shown you that everything we know are approximations and preponderance of evidence.

HellVictorinho:
Answer the question

Of course. Who has never had a dream in a dream??!!

LordReed:
You are the one being ridiculous and childish, who can't distinguish between what is real and what is fiction. You watched a freaking movie and won't shut up about it because you think it's real. You sound like an unwashed infant from the village they took to the cinema who closes his eyes because he thinks the car in the movie is about to hit him. Grow up please and stop fooling yourself about the Matrix movie, it's only a movie.

I am an agnostic atheist, I don't believe in any gods, if you have any gods prove them, it's that simple. I don't care if your god had power in the past, I don't live in that past.

You never reached any conclusions but you somehow know that the universe was setup by a who and that there is a supernatural, are you not the one kidding yourself?

You should really be concerned that the ancients knew better than you. What do u think led to: "I think, therefore I am"

HellVictorinho:
Don't use the word ''we"


You are the one who keeps talking about Neo


Hmm, I wanna ask you something


Have you ever had a dream in a dream?

Now you are getting it - and each of the dreams seemed real!

HellVictorinho:
I know enough to say you are wrong here

You have no way of verifying what is outside you head.
Bottom line, you know nothing for sure, except that thinking exists.
QED

HellVictorinho:
That video doesn't apply or relate to what we are debating

It is exactky what we are debating: Neo is in a reality he'd never suspect is a "dream", a simulation - which is highly likely our own situation

LordReed:
But you claimed to know that this universe is setup by a whoever, how did you come to this conclusion if you don't know?

I declare myself an atheist because I DON'T BELIEVE in any god or gods, it is not a claim that I know there are no gods. I did claim however to know that the god of the Abrahamic faith doesn't exist because I have sufficient evidence.

It is not a question of logic but of evidence. If you don't claim to know anything then I wonder how you are reaching any conclusions. How are you able to declare there exists a supernatural when you don't know anything?

Your claim is kind of absurd though because here you are conversing with me in a language you most definitely learned so how can you not know the language you are conversing in?

You are being ridiculous. You know fully well the basis of everything I say is that we don't know anything for sure. How can I say I know the universe was set up?!!

In that case u are more agnostic (which is the right position to take) than Atheist. As we define it, an Atheist is one who says there are no gods.

You don't know enough to say Abrahamic don't exist. Do you know in the old days when certain deities were worshiped those deities had real power. It is entirely possible our belief in a god creates it. Point is: we don't know enough to say that's impossible

I never reached any conclusions. There u go, being ridiculous again.
Can't you learn a language in a dream? Stop arguing like a baby. Neo can learn a language too, and do everything I can do - yet it's all fake!

Near1:
Why Should I Be A Theist?

Theists in the house I invite you all to give me logical and compelling reasons as to why theism is the correct worldview.

OK, FreeIgboho, your turn .

Let's see how you know the things that you do, how confident you are in your assertions, or if they warrant the ad hominem "arrogant".


Now, who is they and what are they trying to cover up? Atheists or Theists?

No one knows for sure (like in everything), but there is a greater chance theists are right because there is a high probability that this is some sort of a simulation and whoever it is that set it up they refer to as "God". Also man has an inbuilt need to worship something.

"They" is whoever set up this our reality. What they want more than anything else is for us never to suspect that things may not be as we perceive them.
But there are slip-ups in the system - when a dead person briefly appears (oops!), or a child has clear memory of his past life (oops!), etc

LordReed:
If "Whoever set this our reality up must love people who say there is no supernatural" how come there are more people who believe in the supernatural than who don't? Besides since you claim we don't know things how do you know there's a "Whoever set this our reality up"?

Of course there are more people who think there is a supernatural because most people go by what they EXPERIENCE not try to logic it like you. If a child is born remembering his past life and bearing a birthmark at the spot where he was shot dead, they don't say it is one big coincidence!

I DON'T KNOW!!! Just as you don't! No one knows enough to declare himself atheist!

HellVictorinho:
It is impossible for me not to know when I am demonstrating that I know certain things



It's all about demonstrations



If you know XYZ,then you prove that you know it by demonstrating your knowledge of XYZ

See below, that Matrix clip again. Mention ONE thing you can do that Neo can't do? Yet everything he thinks he knows is false because he lives in a "dream", a construct, a simulation!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVM5-_fusjs

Hismasterpiece:
Guy you're just confused. Are you joking? Or are you seriously spewing this craziness?

You know fully well it's no crziness. Only that it scares you - you have no way of knowing if anything exists outside your head, and you have no way of knowing the true nature of what it is that possibly exists.
See below, that Matrix clip again. Mention ONE thing you can do that Neo can't do? Yet everything he thinks he knows is false because he lives in a "dream", a construct, a simulation!

Near1:
That is meaningless babble. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the blah…blah…blah. The question is if a sentient creator god is "necessary" for evolutionary processes. The answer to that is NO.

Now, for your sake, let's revisit your question


Definitions are a place to start, otherwise I don't know what you are talking about. If i said Zeus doesn't exist, you probably wouldn’t question that. I'm guessing you don't understand what a logical compelling reason looks like, but, that's what you asked for. I lack a logical compelling reason for believing, so I'm an atheist. That's logically sound.

If I wanted to EXPLAIN why the CONCEPT of god exists, I could look at historical factors, and see how the IDEAS helped keep tribes together centuries ago. I could make a case for those ideas helping people to survive. But those worldviews bring bad, unhealthy ideas with them. We need to sort out what is worth keeping, and belief, based on nothing, is not one that is helping us right now.

I find it amazing the arrogance with which people talk.
HOW DO YOU KNOW??!!
Whoever set this our reality up must love people who say there is no supernatural. Because it covers up all their slip ups (no system is perfect). Instead of seeing them as signs that things are not as they seem to us, they find a way to justify them. say it is natural thereby covering up their mistakes for them - exactly what they want!

HellVictorinho:
False

Be specific. What part is false? How?

LordReed:
Powerful in what sense?

What sense do u think I mean?

HellVictorinho:
Nah


It's your comparison of dreams to THIS that is unnecessary.


What else

That's the whole point: you have NO WAY of knowing the true nature of THIS. And the sad thing is that when a clue appears you attribute it to chance or yet-to-be---known. All those strange occurrences I believe are slip-ups of the system - someone "over there" probably got fired fir them

LordReed:
That's just it, I have no beliefs that contain a supernatural causation for anything and the problem is you can't show me anything that can't be identified as natural.

I don't attempt to tell people to become atheist so I can't give you any logical reason to become one.

I want to get your take on this:
Why do you think the name, Jesus, is so powerful?

HellVictorinho:
His kind is not new to the Sun


They that think reality is beyond human understanding or knowledge.


The ones that claim to understand or be aware of what the Bible says or what the spiritual is or what the supernatural is WHILE others don't understand or know are not new to the Sun too


Claims upon claims don't make them special
LordReed

Forget about me and my type. Just think logically for one second.
1) you don't know what you don't know and you have no way of knowing what you don't know you don't know - Neo would live and died and even gone to "heaven" without ever suspecting the entire thing was fake. 2) You have NO WAY of proving that anything exists outside your head. You experience reality entirely through your brain. 3) You have no way of knowing what limitations and distortions were built into your brain.
**Therefore you don't know anything except that maybe you yourself exist
**Specifically, you don't know enough to declare yourself an atheist

HellVictorinho:
I have proven it.


Why are you responding if you don't think I exist??

Why do you respond to people in your dreams? Do they exist??
This is rather infantile, no disrespect.
See my last post above.

iamyemiakins:
There's nothing good that has come out of that pissful religion, I wonder why someone has to even swear a oath on the pissful religion Nairaland section before making a comment.

Because people will be disparaging Islam, Koran, etc., which will lead to them placing a fatwa on Seun - then no more Nairaland. Is that what you want?

LordReed:
Have you ever perceived yourself having 2000 toes? You can continue to delude yourself because you enjoyed the Matrix movie and think it is analogous to reality but I know I have 10 toes thank you very much.

I can't believe u r arguing like this. You should know that what you perceive doesn't equate what is real na.
Even a common hypnotist can do that talkless of whoever designed the possible matrix you live in and decided the type of limitations and distortions to give your brain! Even ancient philosopher Descartes knew that the ONLY thing he could be sure of was that he himself existed - "I think, therefore I am". But even that was proved wrong!

LordReed:
There are always things you do know. You seem to be conflating the limitations of knowledge with actual available facts. Can you say you don't know that you have 10 toes and 10 fingers even if you don't know exactly how the bones and skin interconnect to form them?

I thought I was conversing with a mature thinker. You can be any number of a trillion things you can never imagine, things that look nothing like what you think you are. In that matrix couldn't they have had Neo perceive himself as having no toes??

LordReed:
Are you lacking understanding? I just admitted that there are a trillion things I don't know but there are somethings I do know. If you don't know what I know shouldn't your response be inquiry instead of disparaging? You think I haven't factored in the possibility of a Matrix style existence?

Don't be offended. Your mistake lies in that "there are things I do know". In this matrix world what would you say Neo knows? Then factor in the fact you don't know the limitations and errors your brain came with. So you see, there are no "things I do know".

LordReed:
I agree the universe is vast and we don't know if gods could be existing somewhere or somehow however I know that the god the Christians, Muslims and Jews believe in does not exist or more succinctly I have sufficient evidence that gives me confidence that such a god does not exist.

My bros thanks for your responses but they are shallow. Here's why - once u start with the fact that you don't know the true nature of reality and that you don't know the limitations and errors placed on your brain, then there could be a trillion things you don't know that you don't kmow - when just one thing u don't know that you don't know could be where it's all at.
See the clip below, assuming those outside the matrix are God, is there any way to prove he exists?? Is there any way Neo can tell his world is fake? NO!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVM5-_fusjs

HellVictorinho:
False

Something is proven when it is shown or demonstrated (a property) or when it shows (whatever possesses a property)


Your existence is proven when it is shown or demonstrated by you

You prove that you exist by showing your existence

Bros, u can't prove to ME that u exist outside my head. It is an impossibilty

Kobicove:
Is he the only one trading crypto in Nigeria?

Breeze go soon blow then we go see fowl nyash

Behind every great fortune for which the source is not logical, there is a crime

Workch:
Then move on.

Okay, let me serve my god in peace

Who's stopping you. U r the one disturbing other people for "proof". Selective demand for proof.

Reminds me of this true story joke:

Nurse to Covid patient: Why aren't you vaccinated
Patient: We don't know what's in them vaccines
Nurse: I've used 5 different medications on you last hour, you never once asked me what's in them!