₦airaland Forum

KnownUnknown:
Sci-fi about what man can achieve is different from the metaphysical claims that you are trying hard to conflate with it. Now, there’s nothing inherently wrong with conflating the two (The Matrix; 2001: A Space Odyssey; Aliens: Covenant), but don’t go around behaving as if it isn’t fiction.

Elon Musk is another non-authority your type like to cite. Cite what the man did to support your assertions, don’t just name drop and expect someone who doesn’t place people on a pedestal to acknowledge them.

Here you are, deciding what is possible and what man can achieve, when you don’t even have any objective way of being sure you yourself exist!

LordReed:
There we go, you are now adding bigotry to your repertoire. LoL

It is 1% in my estimation you can estimate it at 70% that is up to you, I on the other hand see no reason to since there isn't any objective proof of any god.

People waaay smarter than you have all concluded that it is highly likely we are living in some sort of simulation. Simulation implies simulator(s) (God).

KnownUnknown:
I know the difference between sci-fi speculation and real life. You seem incapable of that. That’s what I get.

Sci-fi speculations of yesterday are today’s reality. Ask Elon Musk where he got his ideas from

LordReed:
Can you quote where I said I want absolute proof that a god exists?

I have said it before and lemme repeat here so that you'll see it, I do hold out a probability that a god exists and that probability is currently at 1%. That is how improbable I think of the possibility.

Meanwhile you have not answered any of the questions I posed to you and also note I did not mention god in any of the questions I asked, you are the one bringing up god. Note it so that when the discussion takes a turn that puts you in an untenable position you don't start laying blame elsewhere. LoL.

If you look at things objectively, it is way more than 1%, more like over 70%.
As for mentioning God, you atheists seem like one person to me. You folks have consistently demanded categorical proof of God’s existence

LordReed:
And we made it clear that movies are not real life. Matrix is not what is happening in real life, stop being so enamoured of an analogy you loose your grasp of real life.

The problem lies in definition of terms. I don’t think you quite get what is meant by analogy. See below

LordReed:
LoL how is thinking fallacious?

Cogito is short for cogito ergo sum, smart ass

KnownUnknown:
We could be playing out a script written by Plasma Beings residing inside the sun who use us as a form of hybrid entertainment.

Earth is a prison colony created to pacify or punish brains in a vat located in the fourth dimension.

Same could be our case, That’s ALL!

Now u r getting. No possibility can be definitively ruled out - except that nothing exists.

Lordreed KnownUnknown sonmvayina

I hope we are all now all agreed that cogito is fallacious

LordReed:
It is not a SMALL part of YOUR discussion, it is central to your discussion which is why you always bring it up. And as I have asked you before what type of supernatural abilities are you able to display ala Neo? You have never said. You even said you are unable to distinguish between dream and real life, one quality of dreams is defiance of natural physical laws, so which have those have you been able to exhibit?

I made it clear I ONLY used it to show that, just as Neo thought everything was real when they were not, sane could be our case. That’s ALL!

sonmvayina:
Why someone and not something ??

It doesn’t matter. Because one thing is highly like - it will be an entity totally not what we imagined or even capable and imagining!

KnownUnknown:
My fixation?!

Aren’t you the one who posted the movie and made the absurd neo/matrix analogy?

Rephrase those questions. Lordreed

Yes, but it was only in passing, I made it clear I was only using small part of it as analogy. Yet you keep harping on it like it’s central to the discussion!

KnownUnknown:
The only one assuming about time/space and other nonsense is you. And your assumption is based on the misunderstanding of a movie.

What’s with your fixation with that movie? It’s just a vehicle for analogy!!!
As for time/space, does it mean he didn’t exist when he wasn’t thinking? How can thinking NOW establish his existence yesterday?

KnownUnknown:
No, I probably don’t like Sam Harris or any other supposed authority.
He says the “I” is an illusion but I bet he still answers to Sam Harris and still refers to himself as “I”. Also, he’s one of those atheist whites who down Christianity but romanticize Buddhism and that’s where he got the no “I” nonsense.

The only one assuming about time/space and other nonsense is you. And your assumption is based on the misunderstanding of a movie.

If you’re 100% sure there is thinking, then you should be 100% sure that there is a brain doing the thinking. A brain housed in an individual’s skull does the thinking unless you can show me a disembodied thought.

Again, you keep taking about there is no “I” so how can there be “we”?

P.S. Sam Harris and the likes of him who use phrases like “western civilization started from the Greeks” or “judeo-Christian values” are people I place much value in or give a damn about their views. Their views are obviously warped by ignorance and the mental illness ironically called “white supremacy”.

The man is a neuroscientist. That’s his expertise. I don’t think it’s yours. See what he says below. Tell us what part of it is false.
(Notice how what he is saying is what I told you is POSSIBLE. Yet here he is, stating it as a fact!)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut6cr89GDVk

LordReed:
What would 100% certainty consist of? What parameters need to be established to achieve 100% certainty? And why is a good degree of certainty unacceptable why must it be 100%?

See?! Yet u want absolute proof that God exists! I knew eventually you’d say it yourself!
The only thing we can be sure of in this our reality is that something exists. Everything else beyond that is probability including my/your existence. The same probability that makes it very likely there is someone behind all this - God!

KnownUnknown:
Ok, you can’t be that dense either. But the evidence doesn’t suggest so. The one suffering from a delusion is you. And the delusion is that you’re not certain of anything.

Anyway, thinking is taking place within a conscious agent that can refer to itself as a distinct individual so Cogito ergo sum is not wrong.

Even your grammar betrays your unfounded arguments. You’re not sure that “I” is doing the thinking but “we” are sure that thinking is taking place.

Sorry, the delayed responses are not intentional.

You probably like Sam Harris.
Well, Sam Harris is a one example of someone who argues from a neuroscientific point of view that the “I” is an illusion. And if there is no self to attribute existence, the cogito fails.

Descartes’ entire motivation for writing that famed statement was in order to establish that he existed, based on the premise that to think requires a thinker, and that the thinker must be something - him.
Which assumes a lot about time and space and that our thoughts are not manipulated to fallaciously deduce cogito ergo sum.

The statement we can really be 100% sure about is: “There is thinking, so something exists.”

KnownUnknown:
Lol. Just stand by your words and call me dense. You are not intelligent enough for it to mean anything.

Your arguments are nonsense. Perception and consciousness do not exist independent of a life form that can perceive other objects.
Your dreams are entirely dependent on things you have perceived and you can’t dream of things you’ve never perceived. Go ahead and dream or think about Buzithliamis if you can.

We can be 1000% sure that consciousness is not he only thing that exist because consciousness itself is an attribute of certain things that exist.

I didn’t say u r dense. I said u can’t be that dense.
You keep forgetting we are talking of certainty. Same way “I think, therefore I am” is wrong because it presupposes an “I” doing the thinking, when strictly speaking, all we are 100% sure of is that thinking is taking place

KnownUnknown:
What is creation? Rhetorical question because I’m not entertaining silly religious claims so “creation” is a non-starter.

Conciousness is a property of something and doesn’t exist on its own. Too many people on this board acting as if consciousness exists as an object.

There are no consciousnesses running around anywhere. Life forms are conscious. Consciousness is not an independent thing that exists without a life form that is conscious.

Ahaa, see that’s the thing : how do you know??
Is it not conceivable that all that exists is a sea of consciousness and our individual selves are illusion. In fact that’s their belief in some religions - that we are all one, that the individual is an illusion

KnownUnknown:
You can call me dense all you want, I don’t rate your intellect high enough to consider it an insult.

Your analogy is nonsense because you ignore everything that goes into creating the matrix and keep insisting that Neo doesn’t know the difference between the Matrix and the real. You even want to ignore the other characters in the damn movie just to support your ignorance.

I’ll have a conversation about consciousness if you can show consciousness independent of the brain. Even your Neo’s consciousness in The Matrix is housed within a material body that is connected to the computer. Or are you going to claim that Neo’s consciousness didn’t depend on a brain/body?

The next movie in the series comes out in December. Maybe they will introduce other ideas to buttress your nonsense.

I didn’t say u r that dense - I said u can’t be.
Now, remember we are dealing with certainty. There is no way we can be 100% certain that consciousness is not all that exists. In other words it is conceivable though not likely at all - it is entirely possible that all that exists is perception, consciousness. Like we are all in a dream but that the dream is all there is - no before or after it.

KnownUnknown:
Getting what?!

There is a real world in the damn movie apart from the simulation they called the Matrix. Neo’s brain and all the human brains are connected to a mainframe. So things in the matrix are not real but they are based on things in the real world.

The conversation between Cypher and Agent Smith is an example. The steak that the machines coded in the matrix is based on the steak that humans ate in the real world before the war with the machines forced them underground. Everything in the matrix is a model based on something real. Even the Neo in the matrix is based on the real Neo connected to the mainframe computer through the pod.

You are not saying anything sensible. You don’t even understand the movie you are using to support your nonsense.

You can’t possibly be this dense. If u really are, then may be we should stop. We are only using the movie as an analogy, and the only things relevant to our analogy in the movie is Neo inside the matrix, not Smiths or any of the other stuffs. Look at it this way: some people believe things just are and have always been - no creation or nothing. Same way (forget the Matrix for a minute if u can) maybe consciousness is all there is, and all there has ever been!

KnownUnknown:
I don’t see anything.

To play your silly game. Isn’t there a difference between when they are on the Nebuchadnezzar/real world and when they are in the Matrix?

Isn’t there a difference between the fields,where they grow humans and connect their brain to the mainframe in the pods, and the Matrix?

Now u r getting it a little bit!! Neo has no way of knowing what he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know. So Neo can rightfully say: “the only thing I’m 100% certain about in this my reality is that I’m perceiving things, beyond that I’m not sure any of this stuff truly physically exists the way I perceive them, or even exits at all”

FreeIgboho:
Oh, you don’t know the movie “the matrix”?
I’ll that clip and post it KnownUnknown

Here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVM5-_fusjs

KnownUnknown:
Movies don’t exist. The clip you want to post is a signal in the simulation they created to convince you that you are alive.

How do you know they don’t exist?

KnownUnknown:
Nothing exists to perceive. Even this conversation is simulated. Perception is not going on. They are simulating your consciousness.

Simulated or not, the fact that there is perception is 100% certain

KnownUnknown:
Did “they” feed a bunch of signals into your consciousness and call it the Matrix?

Are “they” real?

Oh, you don’t know the movie “the matrix”?
I’ll that clip and post it

KnownUnknown:
Consciousness is not real. Who is Neo? What is the Matrix? What fact? What things are being perceived?

What is perception?

Wait, are you real?

……am I real


……what does “real” mean?

“Real” means something that actually exists as they are perceived. The fact that perception is going on is 100% certain. That is consciousness

KnownUnknown:
Okay, you’re not real. You don’t exist anywhere. Even your thoughts are simulated. This exchange is not really happening. We are inside a quantum computer. Lmao

Just like Neo, the ONLY thing we can be 100% sure about is consciousness (the fact that things are being perceived)

KnownUnknown:
The one that doesn’t know anything except reality is like the Matrix.

From whence come the subjects of your thoughts if not from the external objects that you perceive?

You can think of a tree because there are objects humans refer to as trees but you can’t think of hhfskgunkun because it doesn’t refer to anything in the external world.

Now if I say hhfskgunkun is another word for camel, then you will be able to think of hhfskgunkun as a camel.

In short, your thoughts prove the existence of the external world unless you’d rather pretend that your views aren’t nonsensical.

Even thoughts of god are limited to human or other natural superlatives because no one can describe what they don’t know or doesn’t exist. Any thought or idea you have can be traced to the perceptible physical world that exists.

That’s why god is the king of kings, the all powerful, omniscient, all wise, the lord who is brighter than a thousand suns whose voice roars like thunder. The lord who is a pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night. The summation of all consciousness etc etc etc

You must be kidding, right? Because if u r serious, then u r a very shallow thinker, not qualified to be having this discussion. Here’s more teaching: Matrix is a good way to look at it. Everything in the matrix has a name but nothing there is real. So they can feed ten legged cows into the matrix and start calling them hhfskgunkun, doesn’t mean they exist anywhere. There are even names for things that never existed or no longer exist - unicorn, dinosaur, and such. But here’s the only thing you need learn: In Neo’d reality in the Matrix nothing is real (including Neo himself) except Neo’ consciousness!

Crystyano:
What is the relationship between spirits and humans?


If I have no consciousness,

I wouldn't know that I exist.....


Unlike FreeIgboho or someone with imaginary students,I am certain of my existence.....

You tagged me. Well here’s some teaching:
Like I’ve said, the ONLY thing we can be 100% certain exists is thinking (consciousness). If you say otherwise, then tell us how you are certain anything else physically exists

Nothingserious:
You are right. From experience we know our consciousness and minds are real.

But with empirical data, none can show proofs of the existence of our consciousness. Same with logic and maths. crystyano

Thank you!

Crystyano:
Find out ??

Yet you claim to be teaching


I know you're not absolutely sure of your own existence



Who cares

That’s how you learn. You can’t expect to be spoon-fed everything.
Ok here, let me spell it out:
It is extremely likely you and I physically exist, but there is no way we can be absolutely sure.

LordReed:
Another movie you haven't watched or have you watched it? LoLz

I am surely not your student since I am sure about the things you remain unsure about.

I’m preparing your next lesson .
All kidding aside, of course you’re not my student. You’re obviously a smart and widely read guy - unlike the overwhelming majority on NL

CanadaOrBust:
Oga cultist u r the one mad. Can’t you read to understand? Am I blaming him personally? Are you that dense? Same applies to all the cults you mentioned. Only in Nigeria - total copy cats! Check out other countries’ cults, see if they keep copying. Not that anything is terribly wrong with it, just that you get tired of Nigerians always being total copy cats!

How about Spanish Mafia, Mexican Mafia, Jewish Mafia? But I sorta get you, why copy?