nlMediator:

Sure, I was upset when you started lying about Joel and I do not like the idea of sowing seeds of disunity in the body of Christ. Before then, my participation here was as pleasant (!) as can be. You know next to nothing about Joel. Joel preaches Jesus as the only way to salvation. He makes 2 altar calls in every service. When you watch him on TV, that altar call he makes is only a beginning. After that, he urges people to give him about 5 minutes, in which he emphasizes the importance of giving your life to Jesus and escaping eternal damnation. Unless, you do not know the meaning of universalism, no universalist has the time for one altar call, let alone two in one service. And he preaches 3 services every weekend. After the sinner's prayer, he encourages the new believers to join a discipleship class that takes place in the church auditorium to learn more about the fundamentals of the faith.

You either do not know Joel or you are deceived already or you don't know what salvation and the gospel is. Whichever, you need to stop listening and defending Joel for some time. During this period, study your bible ALONE and PRAYERFULLY.
Probably fast from your biggest distractions (food or tv or any other thing that craves for your attention). When you study, use no book or message but a study bible and make comparison within scriptures.
Make notes and go over it again and again. When you are done, you should not worry about what I've said but what the scriptures say.

My desire is to see Christians return to the written word. Too many have left the scriptures for craftily devised false doctrines, thinking it's the gospel.

When a preacher said false teachers a a judgment to those that have been deceived, I initially disagreed. My discussions with many Christians have really opened my eyes to that fact.

Truly, in the last days, men will depart from the faith. Men will refuse sound doctrine. The love of many will wax cold.

@topic
nLmediator is obviously pissed and I wonder why. You are not concerned with the scriptures but fighting and beating the air like most false teachers do.
You jumped into the thread and start posting with anger. There are things I cannot mention here for some reasons. You totally missed and mixed everything up. I will not try to engage you as you are not concerned about the scriptures but your feelings and "thoughts".

If you are concerned about scriptures, go through the thread from page 0 and read scriptures posted already, most of your posts have been attended to in previous posts.
READ THE SCRIPTURES GIVEN. Don't just argue.

@Joel's issue

I doubt you have listened to him preach on the fundamental doctrines of Christ.
You said he has led many to Christ and I'm wondering which Jo you speak of. He doesn't even believe in Salvation and repentance as taught in the scriptures.
I repeat, Joel is a false teacher who has repeatedly denied Salvation, Repentance, and many more. He preaches new age gospel and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans.
He preaches Universalism and that is in accordance to end time prophecies.

Image123: You are talking to an evangelist, hahaahahahaha. Lovely thread BTW, although the OP has itching ears. We know what and who he wants to hear from, don't we?

@OP
The two sides have their points, let everyone be led by God and not copy copy.

I used the sentence "You are talking to an evangelist" as a way to emphasize my passion for lost souls and young believers.
I have been that way for over a decade, I didn't put the fire there myself.


Tell me what I don't know, I'm seriously wanting to know

I have itching ears? Lol, a good joke.
If anything, I don't listen to preachers much. I do a lot of personal bible study, with prayer sessions.
If I'm guilty of anything, it would be over-filtering, not an itching ear at all.

Tgirl4real:

Sir, did u get ur bibles n study materials for free?

Did the publishers publish for free? If yes, the books should be free.

I have answered this already, check previous posts/pages.

Letz remember we are in d gentile world and everythn cost money. Ideally, if we are all properly oriented, we should not wait for the man of God to ask b4 we give.

I support giving to pastors and preachers too, but must be according to scriptures.

What I won't take is someone asking me to pay to listen to him or for him to explain scriptures to me.

In case you don't know, they have started doing this already. From using "financial target" to get into meetings, to paying for tickets, to "conference registrations" etc. They are getting bolder by the day.

My passion remains to encourage those who know they have the call, especially evangelists, to not indulge in these acts.

Don't talk about what you may not have proper information . And don't make it personal with me or my church. Deal with the bible . 

I used CE because that's the example I have PERFECT knowledge of.

I rest my case, you can read the scriptures for yourself.
It has been a good discussion for me as I have learned and relearn, increasing in knowledge and zeal.

Joagbaje:

Well I'm not in the business of criticism of the body of christ in open forum. If you want to do it go ahead but be sure you're edifying the body. Don't criticise without information. You should first find out why people do what they do before judging thy brother .of course I agree someone may do godly thing with wrong motive.

I don't think pointing out something done wrong in by some believers with the intention to strengthen and encourage one another is wrong.
I will be glad to have another believer point my wrongs and errors to me. But it must be SOLELY based on the scriptures.
I am not the Holy Spirit so I may not understand the scriptures perfectly everytime. That's why I passionately depend on the teaching and correction of the Holy Spirit.
We are in the process of learning. And we will till Ephesians 4:13-15 is fulfilled.
So, addressing a few wrongly taught doctrines is not criticism.

Joagbaje:

Sorry evangelist [ with due respect]

I didn't say you don't need the power to preach. Acts 1:8 was clear . And I said the power is for the church.

We are talking about the disciples before crucifixion . They didn't have the Holy Spirit in them . Jesus only gave them delegated power to heal .and you should narrow the discussion to the period quoted . The power given to the disciples and the power given to the church is different . The message they preach and the message the church preached were different .



That's the church era , it's different . Apollo preached powerfully without the holyghost , that's my point. The despises in the earthly ministry of Jesus didn't have power to get men born again. They had power to heal .

You are right when you said He gave them power to heal and sent them to heal as well.
Luke puts it clearer.
They were actually sent to "preach the Kingdom and to heal"
Read Luke 9:1-6; It is right to say he asked them not to receive payment for doing what he sent them to do: preaching and healing the sick.

The day you receive Christ and is born again, that is the day you were baptized in the Holy Spirit. Your pastor, Chris Oyakhilome preached this and he is correct. So to say Appolos preached without the Holy Spirit is wrong.
You cannot be saved without the Holy Spirit resting on you. He is the one that brings about the new birth.

 1 Cor 12:
13  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whetherwe be Jews or Gentiles, whetherwe be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 

John 3:
5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

@Joagbaje

The materials have been of immense blessing and I already knew to do what I'm saying here before I saw some of these ministries online who do it.

Commercializing the gospel to anyone is wrong.
Let me tell you what is right.
Members of the church, for example, CE where you worship pay the cost of publishing ROR through partnership or sponsorship, those paid for are then given to sinners and Christians alike.
If a message is preached and recorded, it should not be sold by default. E-formats can be made available for download. If someone decides to request for a hard copy for a cost, if it has not already been paid for through partnership, he may bear the cost of producing that hard copy.
I know this sounds hard but it's because we have become used to what is done today.
I have a friend who has adopted this pattern.
You can also decide to get people to pay for several copies and then send it out as an evangelistic tool for no charge.

Joagbaje:

The scriptures you're quoting is for the church. Deal with disciples before the cross. He gave them assignment to go an announce him. Then he gave them power to heal and to cast out devils. And he told them , this power you have recieved came to you freely use it freely. He wasn't talking about message . Because they didn't need power to preach message . Appolos didn't have the holyghost yet mightily in scriptures . Anyone can preach.

Acts 18:24
And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures,



Don't get personal with me let's deal with scriptures. It's the power and miracles that can be commercialized not salvation message.

Please read this scripture.

Acts 8:18
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles 'hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Question : what was simon offering them money for? The eloquent speech or the power?

Pls correct your self in this error.

I apologize for sounding personal. Believe I'm not and I don't want to be.

You are talking to an evangelist and you tell me you don't need the power of the Holy Spirit to preach? Are you serious?

Have you ever read Acts 1:8? All the scriptures I quoted show you clearly why the Apostles needed the power of the Holy Spirit, for effectual witnessing.
As a bible student you are supposed to know that the greatest miracle is the salvation of a lost soul! You actually think healing and working of miracles need more "power" than leading someone from darkness to light?
You seem to forget that the assignment given to the Apostles was not to go do miracles, it was to go preach the gospel, make disciples for Jesus, reconcile men to God, call men to repentance, turn them from darkness to light. Healing the sick, working of miracles are accompanying signs and "bonuses", for lack of words.

Read the following:
Matthew 28:18-20;
Acts 1:8;

Peter and the others after the outpouring of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:1-47; (especially 21, 38,39)
Acts 4;

Paul narrating his encounter with Jesus and his call:
Acts 26:16-18;
16  But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17  Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18  To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Mark 16:15-20;

 20  And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Healing and working of miracles are signs to follow but the Holy Spirit came to draw men to God.
Anybody can talk but it takes the power of the Holy Spirit to get a man out of darkness into the marvelous light of God.

The topic is different though, you can open a thread on it and I'll gladly join the discussion.
Simon's case is totally different and I intend to start a thread on that soon. You'll be shocked how people practice today what Simon did and tag it "sowing into the anointing".

Joagbaje:

I'm not a publisher, but I buy many many many materials as every knowledgeable person should do.



Let me ask you a question ,Do you buy christian books?

I don't know why you keep missing what Jesus sent the Apostles to do.
Let me help you this last time since it's not really the purpose of this thread: Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38; Acts 4:33; Mark 16:15-18;
The assignment is always the same, Go preach the gospel of Christ our saviour, heal the sick, and other signs and manifestations of the gifts of the Spirit follow you as you go.

Your pastor did not preach "the gospel of healing" in all his Total Experience, Higher Life Conference, CRC, Aba Miracle Crusade, Good Friday Miracle Night, Night of Bliss etc. He simply preached the gospel but there were healings and miracles, right?

@topic
I buy books and even sold for the same ministry as you.
I stopped buying for some time now. But still have access to large collection of messages from great number of pastors online.
If only you know how the pursuit and worship of Mammon has weaken the effect of true evangelism and soul winning.

I have explained that I do not criticize the BODY OF CHRIST. No true believer does that.
What I'm doing is clear: 2 Timothy 3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

There is nothing wrong in doing that, your pastor does that too.

Candour:

My bro, i didnt want to derail your thread. Actually nlMediator and i have had a discussion about Joel Osteen in the past on this thread below

https://www.nairaland.com/1435400/false-promise-prosperity-gospel-why#18106878

So i'm sure sure we both know where we stand on his Doctrine.

I have joined the discussion, but I'll quote my post here:

There is a difference between a Christian teaching errors and false prophets and teachers.

Joel is not a Christian, he doesn't even know what the gospel of salvation is. I have listened to him both when I used to think he is and now that I know better.

If a preacher teaches error, he can be corrected. But when a false teacher teaches, you cannot correct him because his intention is exactly what he is doing. You can only stay away from him and warn others.

Joel (and many others) do not just preach error, he has DENIED the fundamentals of the gospel. He has denied the purpose of the cross.
Joel preaches Universalism. It is in the preparation of the New Age church under the New World Order that will be led by the anti-Christ.

There is a lot I cannot mention here. I have listened to Joel, again and again, I can only conclude he is not a believer.

There is a difference between a Christian teaching errors and false prophets and teachers.

Joel is not a Christian, he doesn't even know what the gospel of salvation is. I have listened to him both when I used to think he is and now that I know better.

If a preacher teaches error, he can be corrected. But when a false teacher teaches, you cannot correct him because his intention is exactly what he is doing. You can only stay away from him and warn others.

Joel (and many others) do not just preach error, he has DENIED the fundamentals of the gospel. He has denied the purpose of the cross.
Joel preaches Universalism. It is in the preparation of the New Age church under the New World Order that will be led by the anti-Christ.

There is a lot I cannot mention here. I have listened to Joel, again and again, I can only conclude he is not a believer.

Joel is not a man of God, Christians should not listen to him. I'm surprised y'all don't know this already.
He is a new age preacher. The face of Universalism and the anti-church!
@Candour, I'm surprised you don't already know this.
If he sends a book with some dollars included, add a few dollars and mail back to him.
It is a very serious issue.

Lastly, I think we are getting used to some wrong doctrines that have lingered for so long that we can now condone them.
Selling even for lower than the cost, messages etc, is wrong.
I will have to see where Jesus or the Apostles did or encourage such to give a rethink.
I rather stick to scripture than use business logic to analyze the things of the Spirit.

What we should think of is how to earn money and pay for it or get others who will pay for the materials and it should be given out FREE OF CHARGE!
I will not an inch condone any form of exchange.

Not to mention the fact that it is absolutely wrong and against scripture to SELL in the place of fellowship.

Demain_man: The fact is that all the pastors 'Men in suit' capitalist would have partnered with their followers and asked them to sow seeds to write those books and then sell it to them and others for maximum profit.

Example, They use members money to build schools that only thieving politicians and few members can afford to send their children.

I will open a thread for the points raised when led. We need to talk about them. The schools, partnership etc.
God help us, when the time is right, I will start the discussion.

Demain_man: ^^^^ If you are new to Joagbaje bible quotes, you are welcome. He is well known for picking 1 or 2 verses and using it out of context of the whole picture.

Sad to say, that is exactly how his pastor and many "mega" church pastors preach these days.

I seriously appreciate your desperation Joagbaje, it has led me to more scriptures, thanks for bringing 1 Corinthians 9 to this study.
Thank God for this thread. My confidence in what God has called me to do is strengthened!
God bless you.

Joagbaje:

That's not true . They took money for their use and welfare .and took pastor mrs on trip .

1 Corinthians 9:4-5
Don’t we have the right to eat and drink? Don’t we have the right to be accompanied by a Christian wife like the other apostles, the Lord’s brothers, and Cephas?

Amazing, I didn't see this earlier, I don't know if I would have bothered explaining further to you.

See how you picked 2 verses of 1 Corinthians out of context to buttress an error.
Let me help you place it back into context:

1 Corinthians 9:4-5
Don’t we have the right to eat and drink? Don’t we have the right to be accompanied by a Christian wife like the other apostles, the Lord’s brothers, and Cephas?
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12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

Note the highlighted. Especially verse 12, 15, 16 and 18*(where he mentioned without charge and the abuse of his power in the gospel)
Verse 12 clearly states that he didn't do so as not to hinder the gospel! Sticking!
May the Spirit of God flood your heart with light as you study God's word.

@Joagbaje,

I went through some of your topics and noticed you have a lot of "cut and paste" from Pastor Chris Oyakhilome.
I can understand your zeal to defend this error now.

The grace of Our Lord Jesus be with you.

@Joagbaje,

Your desperation to support merchandising the brethren makes me wonder who you are. You sound desperate.
You came into the thread with a ME vs THEM attitude.
If you notice, I mentioned some genuine ministers close to me who sell their materials. I have spoken to some and will do to others. I once sold materials too, though not my personal publications. But I can't any more, it's not of God.

Let me correct some of your errors...

1. Selling Bible is different from what we are talking about here. Bible is published by anyone, probably not even a believer.
I am particularly concerned with ministers and ministries who put their messages in writing and audio-visuals, hard formats and on the Internet and sell.

2. Jesus did not specifically tell the Apostles not to sell miracles: Receiving pay for miracles is another form of merchandising nonetheless. Funny enough, many preachers preach sowing for your miracles and they have many supporters!

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Why do you speed read verse 7? That is the assignment. The healing and miracles are signs that follow.
Remember Mark 16:15-20?
The mandate is always the same, GO PREACH THE GOSPEL! Gospel of healing? NO! Of the Kingdom!
That is another topic for discussion but not in this thread.

3. Naaman became a "believer". Read through to verse 19. It is also false to say Naaman was a proud man. He may have been, but he changed after his aides convinced him and more after the miracle.

15 And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel: now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.
16 But he said, As the Lord liveth, before whom I stand, I will receive none. And he urged him to take it; but he refused.
17 And Naaman said, Shall there not then, I pray thee, be given to thy servant two mules' burden of earth? for thy servant will henceforth offer neither burnt offering nor sacrifice unto other gods, but unto the Lord.
18 In this thing the Lord pardon thy servant, that when my master goeth into the house of Rimmon to worship there, and he leaneth on my hand, and I bow myself in the house of Rimmon: when I bow down myself in the house of Rimmon, the Lord pardon thy servant in this thing.
19 And he said unto him, Go in peace. So he departed from him a little way.

Naaman you called proud referred to himself severally as Elisha's servant. But that's not even the point. Notice how he became a believer of the God of Israel and that He, Yaweh! is the ONLY true God!
Elisha's "preaching" here was a way to show that the God of Israel IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD!

You are also wrong to say he gave gifts for the miracle, NO. He wanted to show appreciation, as is commonly done by rich people and many customs in those days and now. Like someone doing thanks giving for something done for him/her.

4. Lastly, I am here not to criticize but to point out what we OUGHT TO DO AS BELIEVERS, according to SCRIPTURES. There is a difference.

Candour: This issue might not be so clear cut as it looks. Publishing of books and production of tapes and CD's cost money. We all know you need money to get things done. Whether from the mouth of a fish or the pocket of a generous person, money is needed to organize.

The question i think should be 'should Pastors/ministries sell their books and messages for profit?' Should an empire be built out of sales of gospel materials? Is there any Christ-likeness in a Minister of the gospel trying to compete with moguls who are in business for making money?
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.
.
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Christians, particularly pastors must always strive for the common good and this means making the materials readily available at little or no cost so no one will be denied access to the gospel. That is our true calling. Any deviation from this makes us Charlatans.

God bless us all.

Truly, if the motive is not for profit, they may not need to sell publications that have already been paid for, or e-formats that cost next to nothing to make available on their websites.

I am blessed by your contribution. Thank you.

Joagbaje:

Movies etc why won't we package the gospel excellently.

Seriously?? The world is doing it, so why don't we do it??

You can't judge a mans intention. It's God that sees that. Leave judgement to God.

So we cannot correct wrong teachings or actions in the body of Christ with the scriptures?

If there's any material that should have been free it should have been the Bible ,but since we buy and sell the bible , it's hipypocritical to condemn any sale of christian materials. We should rather support it.

Bible can be published by any publishing organization. That is totally different.
I am talking about a Pastor who preaches on Sunday (or any other day) in church, records the message, convert into various formats, upload to their website, publish on discs and put a price tag on them.
It's so bad that some sell the e-formats, pdf, ebooks and all.

I'm a technologist by profession and hobby, it cost almost nothing to make such available via the Internet especially when you already have the platform.

I don't want to sound like I'm promoting any ministry, I would have given you links of websites of preachers and ministries that after a service/meeting, the audio, transcript and video becomes available on their website for ABSOLUTELY NO CHARGE. That is how it ought to be my friend.

If all Christians MATERISLS will be in audio format ,I will gladly but them and give glory to God for such innovation.

You sound a bit selfish. It is not about you and not that I cannot afford to buy them. I'm more concerned for those who cannot buy and will not buy. If truly we want to reach souls with every available means, we would re-think. Add to that, it is against scriptures.

Let's not condone wrong in the church please, this is not right.

Joagbaje:

This is your own addition. Jesus was talking about selling healing and miracles.




What gospel did he preach. Why are you being manipulative here? Besides nothing is wrong with receiving gift except if the giver has evil Herat or motive. Paul refuse to take money from Corinthians because of their carnality. But he took from other churches.Jesus also took money from people he healed. And That's different from selling of materials and books. There different between a pastor as a preacher and a pastor as a publisher. If you publish a book , you ought to sell it. Or get sponsors to make it free. Does it not cost money to print.

Firstly, Jesus was not talking about selling miracles.
Next, the prophe preached the "gospel" of that day to Naaman and Naaman became a convert/believer, read the story to verse 19 and see for yourself. I wasn't manipulative.

Paul took money from other churches quite correct and that's not what I'm talking about. Stop derailing the thread. The Apostles (Paul, Peter etc) took gifts and money too but it was for a purpose, TO HELP THE NEEDY AND WEAK among them. Please don't derail this thread with this. You can create another one for this topic.

get sponsors to make it free. Does it not cost money to print.

How about getting sponsors and then selling what has been paid for?

christemmbassey: how much does it cost to produce e-copy of a message etc? Now there are sm churches/pastors that sell ministry materials at about d production cost, those ones if they did nt recieve assistance for production, could b excused. But, a pastor, collects möney for production, after printing, asked for partnership and still sell at a very high price, bros, this is stealing, plain n simple.

Sincerely, I find it hard to excuse anyone including this group. Like I said, I have very genuine friends, evangelists and pastors, founders of ministry, yet they are making this mistake. I have spoken with some but many may not agree easily.
If you MUST produce these publications, then you are sure God sent you. If that's true, He will fund it.

A lot of times, we are not open enough to hear Him when He speaks. There are genuine ways to raise the funds needed and God can show us if we trust in Him. Preachers most times, have it all taught up and never try to listen to what God has to say.
This is the reason I added Paul's message in Acts 20.

A bus preacher who collects offering after preaching when rebuked by another preacher, said he tried not collecting offerings before, but that he didn't have money to fund the trips and stopped preaching. He decided to start collecting money to "raise" his fare to continue sharing the gospel.

I like the fact that the gospel (I only hope he is not preaching another gospel) is preached, but he made mockery of the call.
My question to him was can God no longer fund you after sending you?
For me, it's proof that you are either not sent by God or you are not following His lead.

christemmbassey: bros, these guys are traders and profit oriented organizations. That's y they do yrly 'restructuring'.

A "renowned" pastor said Jesus is the "product".

Another popular pastor here in Nigeria is teaching Church leaders and pastors how to "package" the gospel.

I'm really not after these ministers on this thread, I'm trying to encourage those who God called and gave assignment to preach the gospel like myself. I know there are many genuine preachers out there.

I encourage preachers and evangelists not to allow the crave for fame, power and money to take over their desire for the propagation of the gospel.

tobechi20: did thjey print the book free?

did they not pay the publishers/

I am expecting comments like this not so I can condemn but discuss it.

Now that you have asked, let's answer and ask more questions.

Yes they spent money publishing the materials. So did organizations like those who gave us Gideon "free not to be sold" bibles. I received it many times, from primary to secondary school. When I got saved, that was my ONLY Bible. I literally marked almost every verse.

But again....

Where did they get the money to publish it in the first place?
Like Christembassey said, why will you collect funds and sponsorship for a publication or material and then sell after producing the materials that have been paid for?
To even sell to their members(who paid for it) and sinners alike.

Like Gideon bibles, many of these pastors actually collect partnership/sponsorship for these books, materials etc. After collecting money from members and partners, they produce and sell the books and messages again.

The prices some of these materials are sold for are outrageous!

I'm begging for answers as an evangelist with a heavy heart:
Will we not reach more if we make the gospel available in every format in social media and the Internet and hard copy at no cost?

God help me bear this burden!

ajas baba: how do you expect them to make money and buy private jets.now most of them dont follow the scripture again

I do not totally agree that they are all out to buy private jets. I know a few who are not merchandising the brethren yet missed it here.
The error precedes the error of "wealth/prosperity" gospel.

Where is Goshen, Christemmbassey, Candour, Pastor Kun, Frosbel and the rest.
I love to hear from you.

In sedning out His disciples to preach the gospel of the Kingdom, the Lord Jesus Christ gave instructions on how they should go about the assignment.

Let's draw from several translations to give us a clear understanding.

Matthew 10 (KJV)
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Matthew 10 (GNT)
7 Go and preach, ‘The Kingdom of heaven is near!’
8 Heal the sick, bring the dead back to life, heal those who suffer from dreaded skin diseases, and drive out demons. You have received without paying, so give without being paid.

Matthew 10 (AMP)
7 And as you go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand!
8 Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. Freely (without pay) you have received, freely (without charge) give.

Matthew 10 (CEV)
7 As you go, announce that the kingdom of heaven will soon be here.
8 Heal the sick, raise the dead to life, heal people who have leprosy, and force out demons. You received without paying, now give without being paid.

There is a lot to draw from the verses but I'll stick to the topic in order not to derail my own thread.

The scripture is self explanatory: Don't exchange the message for monetary gains!


Consider the story of Naaman the army general and Elisha the prophet in 2 King 5:1-19;
In verse 15 and 16 we see clearly how the prophet of God refused an exchange for the "gospel".

15 He returned to Elisha with all his men and said, “Now I know that there is no god but the God of Israel; so please, sir, accept a gift from me.”
16 Elisha answered, “By the living Lord, whom I serve, I swear that I will not accept a gift.”
Naaman insisted that he accept it, but he would not.


Consider the Lord himself and His reaction to the use of God's temple like a mart.

Joh 2:14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
Joh 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
Joh 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

The greek word translated merchandise speak of mart, market place, a place for bying and selling.

Jesus was furious over the "business" going on in the place of prayer and worship.

Notice what was sold by these traders; dove, oxen and sheep. These were animals used probably for sacrificial offerings. Yet, Jesus condemned the act.



Consider Paul's words:

Act 20:33 I have never wanted anyone's money or clothes.
Act 20:34 You know how I have worked with my own hands to make a living for myself and my friends.
Act 20:35 By everything I did, I showed how you should work to help everyone who is weak. Remember that our Lord Jesus said, "More blessings come from giving than from receiving."



There are several questions unanswered:

1. Many of these pastors/ministries who sell books and audio-visuals, proclaim that God has given them a message for the whole world.
If that is true, will it not be better to make their books and messages available on their websites. And make the access and downloads totally free.
Will they not reach many more that way? Why create an online store to sell these messages?

2. After collecting tithes, offerings, partnerships/sponsorship, special seeds, books and messages are published and then sold back to people(their members an others) who made it possible to produce the materials in the first place. Why?


3. This actually make me feel bad soetimes.
Why will messages and books published by pastors/ministries be called "Best Sellers" and why will a pastor be called "Best Selling" author?


We have seen tremendous evangelical campaigns by Gideon and many other missionary organizations and outreaches. I know some ministers who have made their messages (Audio and Video) and books (pdf) available for download from their websites FREE OF CHARGE. You don't even have to sign up so they can have your email and bombard you with adverts of their "products"!


Read Revelation:
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.


Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.


Notice the emphasis on freely.



God Bless you all.

Another false teacher on the loose. Are you using the Holy Bible or Seven Books of Moses?

Bidam: Yeah..i can understand your carnal point of view.Everything in God's kingdom is BY FAITH.The kingdom is INVISIBLE REALLY. You can go ahead with your so called voluntary givings to your social clubs/organization.The reward is evident and earthly.Are they noT building monuments everywhere?SMH!!

In actuality you have been blinded by your greed and desire for material gains.
What I simply said was tithing to the Israeli in the OT is what your income tax is today.
Is it not clear enough?
Income tax is a specified compulsory portion of your income that MUST be given to the authorities. Failure to do so attracts penalty also clearly stated in the law.
Tithe is a specified compulsory portion (10%) of the income of the tribes of Israel except Levi. Failure to do so attract penalty. It's that simple.
Little wonder tithing was never mentioned in the NT, Acts or to any gentile church.

Lastly, I'm not the one who admonished you to give voluntarily, it's all over the NT. Jesus taught it, the Apostles did, the early church did.
Read 2 Cor 9:6-8;
Are you tossing aside the instructions from the Bible to Christians?

Bidam: Tithing is giving.

Tithing is not giving. It is TAX placed on 11 tribes of Israel to provide and cater for the tribe of Levi, The priesthood family and every 3rd year with strangers, needy, Levites, widows etc.
It cannot be "giving" if you are UNDER LAW to pay it.
Your income tax is not giving is it?
Tithe is 10% INCOME TAX. Gerrit?

"Christians tithe by faith" is an outright contradiction.
It's like saying Christians offer burnt offerings today by faith.
Faith and tithe cannot go in the same sentence just as righteousness by works and grace cannot go together.
Only those who have turned the gospel to 'baba ijebu' can say such things.

noblefada: Well I'll just pop my head into this tithing issue, I've deliberately avoided it for a very long time because it's a waste of time n this not a forum for brethren to fighting against each other.
That being said, @Goshen I admire your consistent n passion to put forth the truth about tithe, the tenacity u've showed to ensure the word prevails. But as for this ur exposition, I dnt think u got it right on d devourer stuff, because the locusts n insects were figurative and whatever u might say is defeated by the Use of HE and not IT which of course is consistent with the provision of the law.
That being said, are xtians suppose to pay tithe according to the law? NO! a very big No at that.
See we don't need a grandeur exposition or an endless theological thesis to know xtians are not suppose to pay tithes. A simple study on Grace (of which tithing totally negates) n study of the new testament will reveal it. Let me say this, the early gentiles did not know anything called tithes, not from Jesus or the Apostles, even in the Acts 15 account, tithes were not one of the instructions to gentiles.

If the tithe/tenth mentioned was not figurative, how has the devourer become figurative? Selective interpretation by tithe preachers I guess?
Your explanation about grace and the absence of the teaching of tithe in the NT is absolutely true but most tithe preachers won't agree, hence Goshen is trying to expose the wrong use and interpretation of certain scriptures they use to back their claim.
@Goshen, thanks for taking the time to explain.