₦airaland Forum

Elliotwiz1: yes, We're all priests, but even in heaven their is a hereichy, and so is there on earth...just like having a president, vice-p, governor, lga chairman.....same case here, there are some that are chosen by God to represent us, even the churches of old had elders(leaders) even Jesus proved that the hereichy in the church was acceptable when he said "upon you Cephas i build my church" meaning Peter was the first head.

You have really mixed things up. Notice how you have no scripture foundation for your teachings?
Jesus never said upon Peter, He will build the Church. That is another discussion entirely. You are totally wrong here.

Alumnus: In my church, after giving tithe and offering we are still told to give special offering for the needy and sometimes special offering for other evangelical works. I then begin to wonder, if the normal tithes and offerings are not used for the needy and these evangelical works what are they are used for. The only problem is that when one stands to challenge these things in the church other members who have outsourced the study of the word to their pastors will see you as a hypocrite or even an Anti-Christ.

I want to also make it clear just like some other people have said, nobody is against giving in the church but let no man or pastor make it an obligation or a command else it becomes a ritual that has no blessing attached.

I encourage you to stay with the word no matter what. Even if you are ALONE.

Pastor Kun: Really glad to read this, it is my belief that God has started a new revival in the church and is bringing believers to understand his word and will better.

Pastor, all I can say, God is raising a remnant. There is a revival, a generation that will not sell their soul to money.
A generation that will seek first the Kingdom and not worry about the other things.
A generation with the passion of Daniel and the 3 Hebrew kids who will not bow no matter what!

Elliotwiz1: you dey quote message when you no understand...na wa o...abeg tell person to explain that thing when you quote

Let me help you with several translations...


Rev 1:6
GNB and made us a kingdom of priests to serve his God and Father. To Jesus Christ be the glory and power forever and ever! Amen

ACV and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him is the glory and the dominion into the ages of the ages. Truly.

MSG Who made us a Kingdom, Priests for his Father, forever--and yes, he's on his way!

CEV He lets us rule as kings and serve God his Father as priests. To him be glory and power forever and ever! Amen.

GW and has made us a kingdom, priests for God his Father. Amen.

AMP And formed us into a kingdom (a royal race), priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the power and the majesty and the dominion throughout the ages and forever and ever. Amen (so be it)

1 Pet 2:9
You can visit youversion.com to use their online bible with several translations.

You should be collecting tithe too , the problem is from who? Since we are all priests in the Kingdom of God.

ashieduplus: @fr_evangel

Pls wat church do u attend now? I'm curious.

I don't really want to mention it here. My stand in the Word of God is what is important.

Elliotwiz1: the levites where the said PASTORS and PROPHETS of old....that was when Jesus had not made the access to God open for everyone...in those days the pastors where the levites , now the pastors and ministers you see are the representatives or the SUBSTITUTES of the levites....dont get it twisted.

Tah!!!!!!!!!
The pastors are not Levites. Levites are from the tribe of Levi. They are in Israel.
The land was shared between 11 instead of the 12 tribes and the inheritance of the tribe of Levi was the tithe of the other 11 tribes.
The Levi also gave tithes of the tithe that they received to the priests in the temple.
Read my previous posts for scriptures.
How do you explain 1 Peter 2:9 and revelations 1:6; which clearly states the church has being made kings and priests. Called unto a Royal Priesthood.
If at all, ALL OF US, EVERY BELIEVER SHOULD BE RECEIVING TITHES! Then you ask, from who?

Elliotwiz1: obviously the apostles of old recieved tithes! It's not on record, but It's very possible...most of them were evangelist who go about from places to places...e.g paul...he must have been funded through tithes...do you know the tithes you give in your churches are used to fund missionaries? I can tell you about that in my church...that is what it is used, to support those missionaries, to feed their families, so when you take it away What're you trying to do?....the twelve apostles did not pay tithe, because it was meaningless as that stage, the tithe you pay is used to support the ministers financially, the apostles were always with Jesus and would always share what they had, and they were not workers...after they met Jesus, most of them abandoned their means of livelyhood...their only financial support comes from gifts and stuffs like that from others.

WOW! Did you say the highlighted. I have read your posts, you probably have good intentions but it is not an excuse for teaching error.

Hear from Paul's mouth directly:

Act 20:33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
Act 20:34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
Act 20:35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

Eph 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Candour: I'm thrilled a pastor can be this honest to admit his own errors and make corrections.

God bless you sir and empower you more and more for the work of the ministry.

Amen.
Thank you sir.
You would be amazed how many friends, preachers and ministry founders who no longer tell their members to tithe or sow special seeds to "connect to their anointing".
I know a pastor that does not do any from of giving in his church. If you decide to support the work, he would accept, but it must be your decision and choice. If he teaches giving, it is about how you should help the poor, needy, fatherless, widows, and probably the church if you so which. He doesn't teach that your giving connects you to any form of "anointing" for breakthrough etc.
I have minister friends who have returned seeds to people and asked them to go share with their families and others.
One thing I know is that there is a remnant which will not bow to mammon!

odalon: Matt 23:23
These you ought to do without leaving the OTHER ( TITHE PAYMENT) undone

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

You just shot yourself in the foot.

1. See the highlighted, its clearly stated as a matter of the law.
2. Judgement, Mercy and faith in the Law, are even called weightier matters of the Law. Meaning, they are more important, even in the Law of Moses than tithing.
3. Jesus was speaking to Scribes and Pharisees.

Scribes:
Body of teachers whose office was to interpret the Law to the people, their organization beginning with Ezra, who was their chief, and terminating with Simeon the Just
Pharisee:
A member of an ancient Jewish sect noted for strict obedience to Jewish traditions

Clearly, Jesus was speaking to custodians of the Law of Moses and was talking to them about doing the law fully and not leaving out some while hypocritically doing those that's for show-off.

Bottom line, Jesus did not speak to His followers about tithe, He was speaking to interpreters, teachers and enforcers of the Law of Moses, about the Law of Moses.

psalmdave: HONESTLY I'M AFRAID OF THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THIS WORLD O,U CALL YOURSELF A CHRISTIAN AND YOU ARE COMING HERE TO TALK AGAINST TITHING,WHAT U SHOULD SAY IS U DON'T BELIEVE IN IT,BUT YOU'RE SEEKING FOR POOR SOULS TO ALSO RUIN,I WAS THINKING THE SOCIAL MEDIA IS CAUSING HARM IN THE SENSE OF PORNOGRAPHY,CHATTING ETC BUT I'M SEEING BLASPHEMY AGAINST GOD LIVE,U PEOPLE HAVE DECIEVED PEOPLE TO SAY SPEAKING IN TONGUES IS NOT OF GOD,NOW TITHING,THE NEXT ONE WILL BE FASTING...WHO KNOWS PRAYER MIGHT FOLLOW AFTERWARDS....GOD FORGIVE US OUR SINS AND HAVE MERCY UPON US FOR WE KNOW NOT WHAT WE DO

Let me clearly state here.
Some of those who do not believe in tithing, once did, but after "personal study" got the correct understanding of it.
Also, many of us would be receiving tithes now if we still believe. It's not about not wanting to pay tithe, as I personally would be receiving tithe as a pastor by now. It would have been an easy and sure way to raise funds for "the work".
Get it?
I am a preacher, I preached tithing, sacrificial giving, first fruits, seed connection (or whatever you want to call it) etc.
I am a giver till date, and ardent one at that. The Bible teaches us to be givers, but also shows how giving should be done.
Many of the things I preached back then were mostly "cut and paste" messages.
I listened to other preachers, including my senior pastors in the same ministry, and then preach same. I didn't have to study the bible for myself.
In fact I was taught not to stress myself trying to study for myself. I was taught to just listen and teach, that they have made it simple for me. etc. A perfect recipe for deviating from the written word.

psalmdave: HONESTLY I'M AFRAID OF THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THIS WORLD O,U CALL YOURSELF A CHRISTIAN AND YOU ARE COMING HERE TO TALK AGAINST TITHING,WHAT U SHOULD SAY IS U DON'T BELIEVE IN IT,BUT YOU'RE SEEKING FOR POOR SOULS TO ALSO RUIN,I WAS THINKING THE SOCIAL MEDIA IS CAUSING HARM IN THE SENSE OF PORNOGRAPHY,CHATTING ETC BUT I'M SEEING BLASPHEMY AGAINST GOD LIVE,U PEOPLE HAVE DECIEVED PEOPLE TO SAY SPEAKING IN TONGUES IS NOT OF GOD,NOW TITHING,THE NEXT ONE WILL BE FASTING...WHO KNOWS PRAYER MIGHT FOLLOW AFTERWARDS....GOD FORGIVE US OUR SINS AND HAVE MERCY UPON US FOR WE KNOW NOT WHAT WE DO

Let me clearly state here.
Some of those who do not believe in tithing, once did, but after "personal study" got the correct understanding of it.
Also, many of us would be receiving tithes now if we still believe. It's not about not wanting to pay tithe, as I personally would be receiving tithe as a pastor by now. Get it?

zetel95: Tithes is of God commandment, bring tens of all ur income into my house. N.B. If u dont pay to God, u will pay it to devil WATCH IT !!!

I actually used that same line back then when I preached tithe, it's devilish to say the least.
God forgive me. Seriously!

For people to actually say such things just to get people to part with their money.

Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Heb 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

It is amazing those who speak of Hebrew 7 doesn't even understand the teaching of Paul here,
This scripture proves that tithing IS OF THE LAW. See the highlighted,
However, the scripture was not a teaching of or for tithing, but Paul was explaining TO THE HEBREWS, who had the LAW OF MOSES given.
Paul was teaching of the Priesthood Ministry. How that Melchisedec was a TYPE of the High Priest of our salvation.
He was teaching of the imperfection of the Law of Moses.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Paul was teaching of salvation for the Jews, he had to talk to them in line with the understanding of the message of the Law.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Heb 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

[quote author=TheSaintz][/quote]

Guy please by God stop the deceipt

You call directing and asking you to do a thorough study of the Bible deceipt?

1. the fact that Abraham did it once speaks of principle, he was showing us a principle

Doing it once does not speak of principle, does him sleeping with his house help to give birth to Isaac, in an attempt to help God fulfil His promise also a principle?

2.spoils of war is an increase in income, spoils of war in the old times could be loots of either livestock, purses with coins from your enemies, etc

You certainly have not read that story properly. Abraham was very rich in servants, livestock and all, but he never gave a tenth to God at any other time. He knew how to give to God his best however, it was out of that understanding he decided to give at this time, his tenth.
Mind you, I am not against "giving to God" in general. I am an ardent giver. What we speak of is the present day teaching of tithe.

3.Abraham gave it willfully, yes because He understood covenant with Jehovah, and if he did not do it again where did his children learn it from (check leviticus)

In fact, Abraham's children did not learn it. Tithe was mentioned by Jacob but he gave God a condition for which he would give Him a tenth.

4. if he didnt not teach his children then once again where did the levite learn it from

The Levites did not learn it. God instructed the 11 tribes to give a tenth to the tribe of Levi, because they were ordered not to share in the land. Read my previous posts for scriptures. The Levites was instructed to give a tithe of the tithe given to them, to the Priests, who also had no inheritance among the people.

5. show me a place where moses had and increase in income of whatsoever and then we will conclusively say he didnt pay tithe, if he didnt believe in it, why did he command the children of israel (levite to receive it) from their brethren

Read my previous posts, I have explained. Tithe was instituted as THE INHERITANCE of the tribe of Levi because they had no inheritance when the land was given to the people of Israel. They were to help out in the temple. That was their calling. The tithe was a for of their SALARY/PROVISION.

6. jesus never disapprove of tithing, also show me where Jesus and the apostle had an income and i will absolutely agree with you, also if jesus could pay his taxes then tell me, if he had an income will he not pay his tithe

Jesus was a carpenter, remember? Do you think it was absolutely philanthropy He did? The Apostles were all well to do. Peter and his brother, the great fishermen. Matthew who worked in board of internal revenue ( ) and so on. Paul worked and earned money, read his epistles.
None of them gave tithe, They might have paid tithe as Jews, for they were under the Law of Moses before Jesus came.
More importantly, they taught different forms of giving but not tithing, to the Christians.

7.when you understand the mind of God concerning man on earth, you will stop this talk on the church or new testament

The Bible is the mind of God concerning man. It is there for you to study. 2 Timothy 2:15; 2 Timothy 3:16; Colossians 3:16

and like i wrote in my last post, the phrase 'as poor as a church rat" is now dead, do you ask yourself why,
wealth started flowing in christian hands when they started being taught about giving and tithing,
yes i will say it , pastor and minister are over preaching it for their selfish aim but that does not change the fact that it has cause immense increase to the wallet of believers. all man will give account of himself whether it be good or bad, you just do your part
so once again " very very i say unto you only a foolish man changes a winning strategy"

Wow, this analogy is not of God.
The Bible has clearly written, principles for us to live by.
And lest I forget, do you mean there are no more "poor" Christians today. Both of those who believe and tithe, and those who don't tithe?
Have you read this verses below:

2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
2Co 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
2Co 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
2Co 9:11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
2Co 9:12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;

Gal 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

2Co 8:11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.
2Co 8:12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
2Co 8:13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
2Co 8:14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
2Co 8:15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.

Eph 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

TheSaintz: Guy please by God stop the deceipt
1. the fact that Abraham did it once speaks of principle, he was showing us a principle
2.spoils of war is an increase in income, spoils of war in the old times could be loots of either livestock, purses with coins from your enemies, etc
3.Abraham gave it willfully, yes because He understood covenant with Jehovah, and if he did not do it again where did his children learn it from (check leviticus)
4. if he didnt not teach his children then once again where did the levite learn it from
5. show me a place where moses had and increase in income of whatsoever and then we will conclusively say he didnt pay tithe, if he didnt believe in it, why did he command the children of israel (levite to receive it) from their brethren
6. jesus never disapprove of tithing, also show me where Jesus and the apostle had an income and i will absolutely agree with you, also if jesus could pay his taxes then tell me, if he had an income will he not pay his tithe
7.when you understand the mind of God concerning man on earth, you will stop this talk on the church or new testament

and like i wrote in my last post, the phrase 'as poor as a church rat" is now dead, do you ask yourself why,
wealth started flowing in christian hands when they started being taught about giving and tithing,
yes i will say it , pastor and minister are over preaching it for their selfish aim but that does not change the fact that it has cause immense increase to the wallet of believers. all man will give account of himself whether it be good or bad, you just do your part

so once again " very very i say unto you only a foolish man changes a winning strategy"

You actually call me drawing you to study your Bible deceptive yet the people who preached tithe (I included for many years before I actually studied it) never ask you to study, neither do they talk about ALL types of tithe are not deceptive. Amazing.
Have you read ALL verses in the Bible that mentioned tithe, tithes, tenth?
Maybe you should back up a little and read my previous posts to see the scriptures, including the ones we all used to preach tithe.

tunapa2009: But my question wasn't answered.. Why did Abraham pay tithe in the first place?

Correction, Abraham did not PAY tithe. He gave a tenth as a form of giving not as a tithe because tithe was ONLY instituted under the Law of Moses.

Also, that Abraham gave a tenth does not mean it is God's instruction to the church as Abraham's children never gave tithe. Jacob "vowed" to give God a tenth IF God did something for him. He gave God a condition so it was not an obligation. More like you say to God, IF you do this for me, I will do this to thank you.

tunapa2009: It was recorded once for Abraham abi. What prompted him to give the tithe (spoil)?
I also said that, it must be done with a cheerful heart and not grudging nor forcefully. I strongly believe in tithe...
Does it mean that because Jesus didn't speak about it, make it wrong? Or his disciples didn't speak about it,make it abolished?

You still didn't get it. I am not telling you whether to tithe or not, I'm showing you tithing in scriptures as instituted in the scripture. It is clearly explained. read my previous posts and check the scriptures. More importantly, read every reference of tithe in the Bible, Old to New testament.
The why, what, how, when are all listed. You don't need "special revelation" to know why God instituted tithing.
If you understand the purpose, and how it's to be done, you won't need any pastors explanation.

THE HOW OF TITHING

Tithe is to be given to the Levites as their inheritance (Type 1). This should be done by the other 11 tribes of Israel.
Tithe is to be given by the Levites, from the tithe they got from Israel, to the Priests. Aaron and his lineage.
Tithe is to shared with the poor, destitute, needy, fatherless, widows, strangers etc
Read my previous posts for scripture reference.

From these you can describe the channel of tithing: Israel=>Levites=>Priests.
The Priests ARE NOT TO TITHE. Tithe ends with them.

Yet these same pastors who preach tithing preach we have been called to royal priesthood.

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

No, tithing is for a Jewish structure, strictly for the 11 tribes to give their 10% to the 12th tribe, Levi. And on the 3rd year, with the needy.

Elliotwiz1: without paying this tithes, you can make heaven, that is what you should be focusing on, it is written in the bible that we should pay tithes...10% is what is known as tithe...check your dictionary....if someone decides to pay his tithe, dont try to stop him!

You quoted me and ignored the scriptures I posted. Why not read the verses rather than just speak what you were told. Mind you, I preached tithing for over 10 years before studying it myself.

Goshen360: Many Christians have made their pastors their Lord and saviour, whatever these pastors say to these Christians, is what stands. They don't check like the Bereans to see if what is taught is true.

Pastors on the other hand, mixes Judaism with Christianity and what we have today is confusion.

Some say tithe is what works for them. What then did Christ do for you? Because it works doesn't mean it Christian doctrine. Herbalist mix concorsion for people and it works. Cele people take folks to bath in the river, etc does that mean it right?

Attributing breakthroughs and blessings to tithe is fallen from grace and to such Christians, Christ died for nothing.

I once gave a colleague EVERY VERSE of the Bible that mentioned tithe, tithes or tenth. I asked him to go do a study for himself and return to explain tithing to me.
He left and returned weeks later. I realized that after he studied the scriptures he had questions to ask his pastor (who i perceive he's close to).
When he asked his pastor, the pastor replied him "don't you know yourself how that tithing has worked for you?".
he concluded his pastor was right and I was the one trying to mislead him. I was stunned! He returned and told me he doesn't need to read those verses anymore that he has been tithing and that it has worked fro him all these years.
In conclusion, I never explained anything myself, I just gave him every verse of the bible that talked about tithe.
He chose his pastors conclusion which is not based on the word but his personal experience. That it worked for him!
Tell me who is the false teacher then, me who asked him to study his Bible, not even my own oh, or the pastor who told him not to read the Bible but use his experience to judge?

tunapa2009: What is there any law(mosaic law) during that days of Abraham? Why did Abraham gave melchizedek tenth part?
Tithe did not come through mosaic law.. This is an established truth.
The only thing am against is when pastors start forcing their members which is outrightly wrong. If you don't believe in it(study your bible like the berean christians). Though many people are too lazy to study. Some people don't the reason why they are paying tithe! Some people refuse to pay because of their selfish interest! Why some people are only following the crowd. STUDY THE WORD OF GOD WITH OPEN HEART..
Tithing is biblical and its hold.
What I expect us to now look into should be, how is the church spending the tithes?

I was actually expecting someone to ask this question.

1. Abraham gave tithe ONLY ONCE.
2. Abraham gave tithe of spoil of a particular war, he never gave tithe of his increase, income, money etc.
3. Abraham gave the tithe willfully, not as an obligation, hence he didn't do it again.
4. Abraham never taught his children to pay tithe.
5. Moses never paid tithe, neither do any before they got to the promised land. It was only instituted to cater for the tribe of Levi and on every 3years, the year of tithing, they were to share with the needy.
6. Jesus and the Apostles never paid tithe, hence they didn't teach anyone to do so. The early church were taught to give but never was tithe mentioned
7. Read my previous posts, go back to the Bible and check out ALL forms of tithing, come back when you are done if you still think tithing is for the Church/New testament.

I am not done with my WHY, WHAT, HOW and WHEN of tithing, but let me digress a bit:

For those who use Malachi 3 vs 8-10 as a foundation for tithing, here this:

Malachi was God's prophet sent to call the people of Israel and the Priests who have profaned the law and deviated from the law:

Mal 1:1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.

Mal 2:1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.
Mal 2:2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.
Mal 2:3 Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it.
Mal 2:4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 2:5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.
Mal 2:6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.
Mal 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.
Mal 2:8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

The "Covenant of Levi" mentioned here is Tithing. The people of Israel and the priests deviated from the laid down pattern in the Law of Moses and God sent Malachi to call them back to the law.
Using Malachi to preach tithing shows clearly that those who preach tithe do not know what it is or are simply preaching error.

Alumnus: There are some questions I would seriously want any tithe advocate to answer, maybe they will win me over

1. The Bible mentioned tithe about 10 times, why is it only the one of Malachi that all our pastors preach about?
2. Is it wrong for me to pay my tithe to the poor around me if and when I choose according to the commandment in Numbers and Leviticus?
3. If tithing is as important as our pastors want to make me believe(by preaching about it every sunday even more than they preach about salvation), how come Jesus didn't instruct his disciples to pay tithe?
4. The disciples had some form of careers that kept them and their families going, who did they pay their tithe to?
5. There are about 1000 commandments in the old testament, from how to worship God to how to relate with others, why did we jetison all these commands but cleave to tithe and not just cleaving to it but insisting on only the tithe of Malachi chapter 3.?
6. Even if we agree to the tithe message, does the command in Malachi cancel the ones in Number and Leviticus?

I need answers to these because that is thesame way i was taught while growing up that 3 wise men came to visit Jesus only to realise that the bible did not mention the number of wise men that paid him a visit. Am also very curious because, this emphasy on tithing started with the rise of Pentecostal churches in Nigeria, How come the Orthodox churches that were before us don't lay this kind of emphasy?

Actually, tithe was mentioned more than 10 times. Read my previous posts. Sometimes, it was mentioned as tithe, tithes, tenth.
There are actually 3 types of tithing. Surprisingly, tithe preachers today do not preach any of these types. In the scriptures, none was about money, none was directed to the church, none was taught as a principle in the new testament either by Christ or His Apostles.
Malachi that they use as their standard was a call to repentance made by the prophet to the priests and the children of Israel who LEFT THE LAW OF MOSES.
Malachi was a call to OBEY THE LAW; You have to read from chapter one to get it into context. The blessing mentioned in chapter 3 after tithing was the blessing attached to KEEPING THE LAW as mentioned in Deuteronomy 26.

Deu 26:12 When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;
Deu 26:13 Then thou shalt say before the LORD thy God, I have brought away the hallowed things out of mine house, and also have given them unto the Levite, and unto the stranger, to the fatherless, and to the widow, according to all thy commandments which thou hast commanded me: I have not transgressed thy commandments, neither have I forgotten them:
Deu 26:14 I have not eaten thereof in my mourning, neither have I taken away ought thereof for any unclean use, nor given ought thereof for the dead: but I have hearkened to the voice of the LORD my God, and have done according to all that thou hast commanded me.
Deu 26:15 Look down from thy holy habitation, from heaven, and bless thy people Israel, and the land which thou hast given us, as thou swarest unto our fathers, a land that floweth with milk and honey.
Deu 26:16 This day the LORD thy God hath commanded thee to do these statutes and judgments: thou shalt therefore keep and do them with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deu 26:17 Thou hast avouched the LORD this day to be thy God, and to walk in his ways, and to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and to hearken unto his voice:

Pistolx: from my observation all churches in nigeria ask for tithe,may u pple shuld open ur church dat dey dnt pay tithes and lets see how u wil cope@op

This is an indictment on those who preach and collect tithes.

I know several churches and preachers who don't collect tithes and offerings.
I know a pastor who after studying tithing in the scriptures, went back to his brethren to apologize for teaching them false doctrine.
I know a pastor who for more than a year in church did not ask for offerings or any other form of giving. His brethren became uncomfortable as they have not seen that before.
Some actually went to him to ask why he doesn't collect offerings and tithes etc.
I know a pastor who asked a member that brought his first fruit to him, to take the money back and go share with the needy.

I am yet to see any one person who believes in tithing that has disputed the scriptures I've posted thus far.

I will get to Malachi 3 which tithe preachers hold as their foundation for titihing.

stexsy: this pastor kun is an agent of darkness, i believe he is send to lead people to hell pls beware of him. Tithing all d way

Have you studied tithing from the bible? I mean, every scripture and verse of the scripture that tithe, tithes, tenth, was mentioned?
If you haven't studied it, then you may not be said to be noble like the Berean brethren.

Act_17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

THE WHAT OF TITHING?

The children of Israel were instructed to tithe their harvest (to the tribe of Levi as I've pointed out already).
They were not instructed to tithe their MONEY, as is done today.
Many will argue that that was their form of "money" back in the Old Testament, but that in itself is a lie. Read scripture below:

Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Deu 14:27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.
Deu 14:28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
Deu 14:29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Neh 13:5 And he had prepared for him a great chamber, where aforetime they laid the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the tithes of the corn, the new wine, and the oil, which was commanded to be given to the Levites, and the singers, and the porters; and the offerings of the priests.

Neh 13:12 Then brought all Judah the tithe of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries.

Note how they are not to give their money as tithe, but to convert their tithe to money and back to what they are supposed to give as tithe, if the place to offer the tithe is too far from them

Like I pointed out, THE WHY? WHAT? HOW AND WHEN? OF TITHING

THE WHY?
Tithing was instituted as THE INHERITANCE (PROVISION) for the tribe of Levi.
When God gave the land of Canaan to the children of Israel, there were 12 tribes, from the 12 sons o Israel.
The inheritance was shared among 11 tribes and the Levites were given no inheritance.
They were called to serve in the temple and minister with the Priests (Aaron's family).

Deu_10:8 At that time the LORD separated the tribe of Levi, to bear the ark of the covenant of the LORD, to stand before the LORD to minister unto him, and to bless in his name, unto this day.
Deu_18:1 The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and his inheritance.
Jos_13:14 Only unto the tribe of Levi he gave none inheritance; the sacrifices of the LORD God of Israel made by fire are their inheritance, as he said unto them.
Jos_13:33 But unto the tribe of Levi Moses gave not any inheritance: the LORD God of Israel was their inheritance, as he said unto them.

But the Levites had families and needed to provide for theirs. God then instructed the entire nation to save 10% (a tenth or tithe as we know it) of their harvest(I will come to this later). This tenth or tithe or 10% of their increase was to be given to the tribe of Levi as their own share, hence IT WAS A PROVISION FOR THE TRIBE OF LEVI ONLY at this stage....

Candour: emphatic NO for the following reasons

1. Jesus grew up a carpenter hence doesn't qualify to pay tithe and he was from the tribe of Judah thus disqualifying him from receiving tithe

2. Most of the apostles were fishermen hence disqualified from paying tithe but more importantly, none was recorded to be from the tribe of Levi hence unqualified to collect tithe. Infact the most prolific writer of the new testament, apostle Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin therefore clearly and unambiguously unqualified to collect tithes

3. If Jewish Christians continued tithing, the only group qualified to receive it were the Levites functioning at the temple and these were fully practicing their ancient religion of Judaism which was antagonistic of Christ in his earthly ministry and had nothing whatsoever to do with the church started in Jerusalem.

This would explain why the early converts to Christianity sold whatever they had freely without compulsion and brought to the apostles for distribution to the needy among them. It had NOTHING to do with tithing. This is the freewill giving mentioned all over the new testament which we ought to live by.

Thank you for this, I was coming to that. The reason many pay tithe is that they don't really know what it is.
If you understand tithing, you would understand it is not even a Christian practice but purely Judaism!

If you are going to tithe, then you must follow it to the letter, not partially.

According to the scriptures, there are 3 types of tithes:

1. The first Tithe in the bible is that which the Children of Israel are supposed to give to the tribe of Levi as their inheritance, because they were instructed to have no share in the inheritance of the land.

Num 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Num 18:22 Neither must the children of Israel henceforth come nigh the tabernacle of the congregation, lest they bear sin, and die.
Num 18:23 But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall bear their iniquity: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance.
Num 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
Num 18:25 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Num 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

2. The second is the tithe from the Levites to the Priesthood family; Aaron's family in that day.

Num 18:28 Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD'S heave offering to Aaron the priest.

3. The third type of tithe is to be done in the year of tithing; The children of Israel were instructed to share this with a certain group of people; The poor, destitute, fatherless, Levite (because he has no inheritance) etc. This particular tithing was to be done every 3 years.

Deu 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Deu 14:27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.
Deu 14:28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
Deu 14:29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

In these 3 types of tithing, we were shown the why, what, how and when of tithing.
I would try and point out these.......

I have read through the thread and note some points:

1. Most people who defend tithing have never studied tithing themselves from the scriptures and have no or partial knowledge of Tithing in the scriptures.
2. The assumption that anyone who does not believe in tithing does not also believe in "giving".
3. The assumption that it worked for them hence it must be from God.


Let me start by saying all my life, I believed in tithing and taught it for many years as I have been a church leader for so long.
But when I finally decided to study on my own, I realized a lot that has not been said about tithing.
Let's take a look at the scriptures and you decide for yourself according to the Word.......

Goshen360: Yes, I have stopped tithing and blessed beyond limits.

Brother, it's been a while. How are you doing?

mbulela: No where have i said that balance is not needed.
It is the lack of balance that makes the message i spoke above needful.
No true believer in Christ will go on sinning and be comfortable in it. It is impossible.
However,sinning does not negate God's love for his Children. Infact the knowledge of that love will drive you far from sin.
God does not love you any better because you do not fornicate or lie.He has loved you with an everlasting love,it is that scandalous and prodigal. But if you know God's love you will want to kill yourself with guilt even before God's wrath comes to you (If you feel comfortable in sin,they you have lost it).
In summary, God's love keeps me from sinning. Not a fear of judgement. If what makes you not sin is a fear of hell,then you are still on a very long thing.

You are correct. [John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.]
At the highlighted though.
I got saved because of the fear of hell, but I remained saved because I love God.
I realize early as a Christian, that the fear of hell cannot last forever.
I also feel we need to talk more of the Joy of being with God in heaven (the new earth actually).
However, in the knowledge of His love, we are constantly reminded of His wrath/Judgement.

Like Paul said:
Hebrew 10:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

In conclusion, as you strive to love Him more and do His word, be reminded as well of His wrath on all those that reject His reign over their lives.