₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
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So who created evil.

Evil itself is a byproduct of sin. Since the world has become a sinful world, it had to be balanced by good. And good is only enjoyable because of evil in a sinful world.

Mind you, the omniscient and omnipotent one who created creatures who do evil necessarily created evil.

God didn't want zombies. He didn't want robots. He wanted humans who can choose their actions and be responsible for it. Only that condition validated love and loyalty, without which the world wound be boring. So, everything was good until man choose to obey a different master.

This is aside from his confession in Isaiah that he does indeed create evil.

He created evil for the purpose of judgement because now there was sin I. The world. That is still different from the evil that arises as a byproduct of sin.

DeepSight:
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The point is from where do you derive the magisterial authority to make that rule and consign it to Earth alone.

I'm telling you the position of the Bible.

DeepSight:
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Special pleading.
And how did you arrive at it at all events.

You can apply it locally. Not everything applicable in Nigeria is applicable in USA

DeepSight:
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I don't know how you don't see the numerous contradictions here. Do I have to point them out?

Point them out. I can see you have a lot to understand.

DeepSight:
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Hence good cannot be appreciated in heaven if there is no evil there, as LordReed has rightly noted.

The rule applies to earth alone. It doesn't apply to the entire universe.

DeepSight:
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A creator of evil cannot blame the evil it created.

No. He didn't.


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Such sacrifice that the said Christ lamented it by -

1. Praying that the cup should pass over him?

So that you can appreciate the sacrifice.

2. Crying that the father had forsaken him?

So that you can know that you were accepted of the Father.

And thirdly such an alleged sacrifice does not square with justice if one person has to bear the sins of another.

It does, because He literally took the place of the sinner and took his sins upon Himself. He claimed He was the One who did everything you did.

Even after the same Bible claims that whatsoever a man sows the same shall he reap.

Yes, that's the law. Then Jesus came to reap your sins for you because you cannot actually do any better. You have no such powers.

DeepSight:
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Your argument doesnt work once you claimed that good can only be enjoyed with the presence of evil.

That's not my argument.


My claim is that good can only be appreciated in the presence of evil. It makes you have a sense of enjoyment otherwise you wouldn't even know what enjoyment is.

LordReed:
It doesn't matter. You claimed it was necessary. If not it is not necessary in heaven then you must concede that the possibility exists.

The conditions are different. That's why it matters.

What matters in Nigeria may not necessarily matter in the USA.

Earth is not a standard for heaven.

DeepSight:
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1. He expressed regret for his action creating man

No. That's not the kind of hurting we're talking about. Here, it was man that hurt Him. If you feed your dog and do it nice things only for it to turn against you one day and bite. Can you be blamed for that? Nobody will say you hurt yourself for what that dog did to you.

2. If you are a trinitarian he hurt himself by hurting Christ

No, that's love. Hurting others for some selfish gains is what sin really means.

Love can hurt itself for the benefit of others. That's sacrifice.

DeepSight:
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By this definition Yahweh sins also since he has hurt himself according to the Bible.

How did hurt Himself?

LordReed:
I didn’t see any screenshot.

If evil will be purged then it is NOT NECESSARY! Or are you saying there is no enjoyment of good in heaven?

The conditions of earth are not same with heaven's. The same rules don't apply. Apology for omitting the screenshots. Here are they below:

PulsingPurple:
Me wey get history with him since the day I asked him to prove his wife has love for him, and than in return I'll prove God exists. 😂😂

And since he did want that proof...he absconded 😂

DeepSight:
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Can you define sin please

Sin is anything that hurts or wrongs God or man or yourself.

LordReed:
Kindly produce a link to a scientific study that says evil must exist so we can enjoy good.

Since you didn't want to make the research as I advised. I have copied what I said to Google so you can have a reason to research it. A few screenshots of the results are attached below.

Address why you believe there is no evil in heaven.

Evil is not a direct factory product. It's a by product of sin. The more you sin, the more you produce evil. Lucifer was the first to ever sin , and that sin brought evil into being. God had to cast him out and all his accomplices to punish them on earth. Heaven was purged. Earth would eventually be purged at God's set time too. All evils would be quarantined. With a different body and newly refurbished earth, we would have a different experience on earth.

LordReed:
Thanks for the compliment but I have to hand it to DeepSight and budaatum for their calmness and even-keeled handling of discussions. I strive to copy them in that manner.

You're right about these two people. You can add pulsingpurple to the list.

LordReed:
That is completely untrue. You don't even believe it because you believe there is no evil in heaven. You actually believe in the possibility.

Do you claim to be scientific? Just copy and paste what I said to Google or any AI and come back with the response. You can't claim to be scientific and still be arguing against science.

And I believe it totally. Heaven has nothing to do with it. Heaven has a condition different from that of earth. Also, the body we take into heaven is not this same body we carry on earth. It's a changed body that aligns perfect with heaven:s rules and laws. This body here aligns with Earth's rules and laws which requires evil in order to enjoy good.

I'm pasting my submission here again for you to copy and research: "You're not getting it. You didn't seem to understand what you're saying?

The only way you enjoy the rice is because there are bad rice. If there are no bad rice. You would just be eating the rice without any sense of enjoyment. If there are no lows, you cannot understand heights. If there's no darkness, you cannot understand light. If there's no sadness, you won't value joy. If there's no captivity, you won't value freedom. You won't even have any sense of enjoyment. What I just told you is philosophically and psychologically sound."

LordReed:
No. I am not asking you to mix shit into the jollof so I can appreciate one without it. Good can be entirely without evil (hypothetically anyway as far as this universe is concerned). Or do you think there is evil in heaven?

You're not getting it. You didn't seem to understand what you're saying?

The only way you enjoy the rice is because there are bad rice. If there are no bad rice. You would just be eating the rice without any sense of enjoyment. If there are no lows, you cannot understand heights. If there's no darkness, you cannot understand light. If there's no sadness, you won't value joy. If there's no captivity, you won't value freedom. You won't even have any sense of enjoyment. What I just told you is philosophically and psychologically sound.

AntiChristian:
What did he copied from?

Where is the evidence? Screenshot!

If i asked you what the evidence that Paul met Jesus you'll quote Paul or Luke (Paul's boy) to me right?

Gospel of Thomas is a lie sha!

Everyone of the disciples testified that Paul met Jesus. The first was Barnabas. Not even Luke. Peter and James, the leaders of the disciples after Jesus certified Paul. Who certified Mohammed? Who certified that indeed Mohammed split the moon? Who certified that indeed Mohammed met Allah?

Answer me o.

LordReed:
Hard disagree. You don't need evil to enjoy good, you just need differing degrees of good. It is like saying you need to eat shit before you can enjoy jollof rice, no you don't.

Do you understand that when you say differing degrees of good, that's a mix of good and evil in different proportions?

AntiChristian:
Show us all the sources where he copied from? You lie about Gospel of Thomas don burst!

Tell us who witnessed Jesus walking on the sea too?

The lie burst only in your head. I attached a screenshot evidence from the very beginning. Mohammed copied , no doubt. He plagiarized. Especially the clay bird miracle thing. An even that never happened that found its way into the Quran from a rejected book.

AntiChristian:
Since you know memorization was an Arabian culture why did you lie that he copied many books? You even lied about the Gospel of Thomas!
Show us who has memorised the Bible in its original language!

The Arabs too never denied the moon splitting miracle! It was as clear as the day! Just as some particular Egyptians witnessed the red sea event, some particular Arabs witnessed the moon splitting event.

Abeg, how does memorization prove the authenticity of the Quran? How does that disprove plagiarism? You can copy anything from anywhere and then memorize the compilation. How's that difficult ?

Now, tell us verifiable sources of witnesses who witnessed the splitting moon that was as clear as day.

AntiChristian:
You call it a lie yet you have no evidence at all! The liar is clear!

Show us just one person who has memorised the Bible wholly in its original language?

Of course he did as it is clear Moses spilted the sea!

I have given a screenshot that let's you see that memorization was Arabian culture before Mohammed. The Bible is larger than the Quran, yet many people have memorized large portions of it but it isn't the culture of Christian and Jews to memorize the Bible, otherwise, we'll also have 'memorizers'.

The Egyptians never denied the Moses story, did they? They're even building a bridge across the same sea to link Saudi Arabia. Guess the name of the bridge? Moses' Bridge!

The sea was parted to create road for the children to pass over when there was no road elsewhere. God had to move. So, why did Mohammed divide the moon? In order to cross over it into Jupiter? God does not do anything without a reason. And, the moon being divided can only be believed by brainwashed people. Who saw Mohammed dividing the moon? Hahaha!

jaephoenix:
What are the primary use of vehicles? Is it to kill people or movement? If it does its primary function most of its times, then the vehicle makers are right.
Same logic goes with medications. Pharmaceuticals make them with the intention of curing disease but if people die of the occasional side effects,then they are right
I wonder how this relates to an omniscient god who creates Satan knowing he'd mislead humanity

All these are not necessary my friend. The point is that vehicles are imperfect. That does not mean they have no creator. And the fact that they have killed people does not stop the creators from continuing creating them. Simple!

But, as I have always said, you've never been sincere and honest even with yourself in conversations. The only atheist I respect on this forum is lordreed. Very honest and civil.

We're discussing with you that you have 0 knowledge of the universe and therefore cannot make any conclusions until you know all that's out there. Lordreed in all honesty agreed that investigations still continue, while you're here talking offpoint and arguing aimlessly.

I wouldn't respond to you anymore. What I know is that you cannot talk in absolutes concerning what is and what is not in a universe you have 0 knowledge of.

AntiChristian:
It clear you have no verifiable evidence. My evidence is in the memorization of the Qur'an. Muslims right from the time of the Prophet have been learning it by heart! There was no literature review on any kind of manuscripts like your Bible. This is clear. Even your claim about infantile gospel of Thomas fell through!

Ye japoro!

I pity you. Keep defending lies. Obvious lies o.

Anyone can memorize anything. There were 'memorizers' before Mohammed, and 'memorizers' would not cease after him. How's memorization an evidence to anything? Even his contemporaries accused him of plagiarism.

Did Mohammed also divide the moon true true?

Lol.

Antichristian2:
You first need to acknowledge you failed woefully mixing up The gospel of Thomas with infantile gospel of Thomas.

I know you won't accept the truth that you erred and you have no special holy spirit guidance in you!

What books did he copy? How was the literature review done with all he accomplished within 23 years?

He was not even know to have written anything!

Anyways! Telling lies is a trait!

Go and ask ChatGpt. Even all AIs attest to the fact that Mohammed copied. Except you're brainwashed, you wouldn't be asking unnecessary questions.

jaephoenix:
Good. So he created both good and evil,right?

If there's no evil, how can you enjoy good? You'll be a zombie or robot that dies not know how to enjoy. You won't even have any sense of enjoyment.

jaephoenix:
Are vehicle manufacturers omniscient? No! You keep on equating your god with mortals and then turn around to ask why atheists laugh at christians

Vehicle manufacturers are not omniscient but they're knowledgeable enough to know that vehicles have killed many people, yet they keep producing them.

I'm not equating God with mortals, I'm coming down to your level using what you can relate with before I can even tell you deep things.

jaephoenix:
I dont know when you suddenly developed poor comprehension skills,but lemme try again.
Who trampled on Pharaoh's freewill by hardening his heart so he can kill more Egyptian babies?
Who connived with Satan and destroyed Job's family(without their knowledge or permission) even though he knew the outcome of the bet?
Who forced Nehemiah to leave his house,city and run? Even forced a poor whale to gobble up Nehemiah? Na by force to preach?
Please answer these questions sans mental gymnastics

Before Pharaohs heart was hardened, did he have any regard for God? If God later hardens his heart so as to show the world His might through him, what'd wrong with God using one insubordinate fellow to teach millions of other insubordinate individuals a lesson? His heart was hardened only a few days before he was punished, what did he do with his unhardened heart before those days? He spent it reviling the God of Israel. So, God decided to make a show of him.

What you're describing about Job and Jonah are not related to freewill. Job was tested, passed the tests and got rewarded. Jonah had a covenant with God to obey God as a prophet. He broke the covenant and God held him responsible for his actions.

Your 10 year child has a son relationship with you. If you send him an errand and he refuses to go, telling you "na by force?", what would you do?

jaephoenix:
I'm waiting. But better make it quick cos I migrating soon

If God wills that we meet before we move, we'll meet.

Wherever you go, God will someone else for you if you're in His plan.

jaephoenix:
New York was mentioned in Spiderman. Going by your analogy,Spiderman is real. You see why I talk say u suppose go school.
I asked you a question which you dodged (your normal way)
DO YOU BELIEVE UNICORNS EXIST

Offpoint.

The reason you know spider man is not real is because you know absolutely what's real in New York. The same logic does not apply to the universe where you know absolutely nothing about what exists out there.

AntiChristian:
What inventories? It was said that people do keep items with him and he do return them as they gave it to him! This certainly doesn't need education at all. He could even have people doing it for him. And we can even say he had a sophisticated memory that he could remember all his transactions! If he is lettered according to you then show us which school he attended and who were his teachers?

Lol. Hear yourself out. You're comparing business accountability with neighborhood safekeeping. Are they the sane thing? Who would appoint a business manager that cannot read and write when there are several others who can? You're even asking me what Inventory? Is this how you want to keep defending the indefensible?

AntiChristian:
Managing business in a caravan means a person is literate? Now your IQ is clear. Probably you think he is preparing balance sheet and profit and loss account back then!

Na so you guys dey think!

My dear, balance sheets are not the things a business manager does. Leave that for the accountant.

But, he'll take inventories dear. He'll record events, supplies and important dealings to be reported to the business owner. He'll read all correspondence and make important notes. Tell me who'll give his business to someone who can't do all these when there are thousands of others who can.