₦airaland Forum

Dtruthspeaker:
Fxmasterz


The question is, if Adam did not know good and evil, what then was he doing?

That is
1) were they doing good, even though they did not know it?

Or

2) were they doing evil, even though they do not know?

And the answer is that they were doing good, even though they did not know it.

I believe they knew they were doing good. Without that knowledge, they wouldn't also know if they were doing evil. That means Cain didn't know that killing Abel was evil. In that case, it would not be just for God to reward good or judge evil.

Kobojunkie:
Hogwash! 🥱🥱🥱🥱

I am with China on this. Religion is some sort of mental illness that strips individuals of the ability to comprehend all things, including life as it presents itself. 🥱🥱🥱

According to the junkie himself.

Even attributing to China what China didn't say. China specifically said 'Islam' but the junkie heard 'religion'. 😂

tctrills:
You are missing an entire half of the picture. Was satan the AC engineer that also taught them to do Good? Remember, it was not only evil that the fruit opened their eyes to.

See, Good never need be learnt in Adam's early days. It was a nature. Just as today, evil needs never be learnt. It's a nature. No one teaches an infant to disobey. He just disobeys. That's all. That was how Adam was. His nature was to do good. The fruit gave him a double nature. Satan didn't teach him to do evil. He only brought him into the awareness that evil can be done. I didn't get anything close to that in illustration, that's why I used the AC engineer example.

Again, you seem to be writing a new bible. The bible we have says they had no knowledge of Good and Evil, but you have changed it to, " they had no knowledge of how to commit evil.

But let's stick to the good part for a while. If we must believe you, it should also mean that Adam and Eve had no knowledge of how to do good. They knew good could be done, but had no inspiration/motivation for it before satan the AC engineer, taught them

As I said above, they had a nature. My position is very consistent with the Bible. What we call the Adamic nature today is the desire to do evil. The awareness to do evil and even enjoy it. Though we know that Good exists. Today , Good is hard to do but evil is very easy because it is a nature. This was the opposite of what Adam had in the beginning. Evil was hard but good was easy because it was a nature.

The Bible called the tree "Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil". How can you say Adam does not know what that name means? The Bible hides deep truths to be discovered as gems. They knew evil exists but had no awareness of carrying it out. It wasn't in their nature.

tctrills:
You are saying that Adam in the garden knew to do good but did not have the ability to do good until he ate the fruit?

The yahoo example doesn't cut it. If you don't know how to do yahoo, you don't have the choice to do it. That's simple.

The bible was clear. Adam and Eve did not have the knowledge of Good and Evil.
They had no idea what good or evil was.
They didn't even realize their unclothedness.

So comparing Adam to a prospective Yahoo boy is wrong. A would be yahoo boy already knows that yahoo is wrong meanwhile, this is what the Lord said about Adam

Genesis 3.22
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Note,
This lack of knowledge wasn't limited to Evil. It was an ignorance to both good and evil

Let me give another illustration here.

You have an A/C is your house working perfectly until it became faulty.

Except you have been introduced to A/C repairs before, it would never even cross your mind to make an attempt to repair that A/C. The A/C could remain in its faulty state for years even though you know it can be repaired, you wouldn't even touch it because it never crosses your mind to even see what's inside, let alone attempting a repair. It will be there gathering dust until you call an engineer on it. Even if all engineers say they're not available for the repairs, you won't even yhi6if doing it yourself. But, once any engineer arrives and opens the A/C in your presence and he repairs it in your presence, that changes things. Next time if it has a fault (especially if the engineers say they're unavailable), you might decide,"let me me attempt this thing myself, it might be just a small disconnection "

This is the situation with Adam and Eve. They didn't even go around the tree to examine the fruits on it because it didn't even cross their minds. But once Satan (the A/C engineer) came into the picture, he taught them how to disregard God's instructions and do whatever they think is good for themselves. They now know how to carry out their own wills and do their own biddings.

This was the situation of Adam and Eve. They knew evil could be done but had no inspiration/motivation for it. This is also for Deepsight.

tctrills:
You are saying that Adam in the garden knew to do good but did not have the ability to do good until he ate the fruit?

No, I didn't say that. That's your own interpretation of what I said is that they knew that evil exists but they did not know how to carry it out. They didn't even have the slightest sense/, intuition /trigger/enlightenment to carry it out. Their understanding did not include "how to do evil". The only know evil can be done. The desire and the how was not there.

The yahoo example doesn't cut it. If you don't know how to do yahoo, you don't have the choice to do it. That's simple.

Not that simple. You don't know how to do Yahoo because you don't have the desire to do it. You don't even have the sense of doing it. It does not even cross your mind to do it. Otherwise, you'll find out how to do it and then do it.

The bible was clear. Adam and Eve did not have the knowledge of Good and Evil.
They had no idea what good or evil was.
They didn't even realize their unclothedness.

They had no understanding about carrying out good and evil. That instinct to do good or evil was not there. They just only knew hiow to do whatever God wanted them to do. They knew good and evil exists. For example, when God told them not to eat of the tree of the 'knowledge of good and devil's, did it sound like jargons to them? They understand exactly what God meant. But the desire to do what God does not want was not there. It didn't even cross my minds.

For example, today we carry the opposite nature of what Adam and Eve used to be. The average sinner does not know how to do any good. It doesn't even cross his mind to do good. All he wants to do is to satisfy and please himself according to his lusts and fleshly desires. He doesn't care a out what God wants or what others want. Before the fall, Adam cared only about what God wants. Everything changed after the are that fruit.

Love is the root of all righteousness. Selfishness is the root of all evil.

So comparing Adam to a prospective Yahoo boy is wrong. A would be yahoo boy already knows that yahoo is wrong meanwhile, this is what the Lord said about Adam

Genesis 3.22
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever

As I have explained, that is to understand the workings of good and evil. To know how to carry them out. To have the desire to do them with selfishness now taking the upper hand, they have they desire to do evil more than good after eating the fruit. This desire wasn't there at the beginning.

Note,
This lack of knowledge wasn't limited to Evil. It was an ignorance to both good and evil

The ignorance is in not knowing how to carry out the acts or even desiring them. The instinct was not there. The only instinct that was there is obedience. They knew they could disobey, but the instinct to carry out disobedience was not there. They didn't even ever approach the tree to.examinebthe fruits until Satan called Eve's attention to it.

These are very deep things that I don't even have the right words to express certain things. Maybe this can give deepsight more light.

DeepSight:
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I don hear.

I am waiting for the evils you said Yahweh did. Even if you cannot quote the Scriptures, just name the stories.

I have read the Bible from Genesis to revelation several times without number and can easily tell you the details of the stories you mention as well as the background and context of those stories.

From experience, when men do evil, you guys don't see it. It is only God's judgement upon the evil people that you see. You then conclude that God is evil without minding that He was judging people who were doing evil after waiting hundreds of years for them to repent.

But since you have admitted that justice rightfully executed is not evil, I will like you to prove your statements that Yahweh did evil.

Dtruthspeaker:
Perfect!!!

And then he couldn't counter

You mean Deepsight?

He was in denial, claiming contradictions that didn't exist. All my explanations in a bid to simplify things for him fell on deaf ears.

Dtruthspeaker:
Rather, it is Him doing good of giving

Exactly.

LordReed:
You didn't answer the question and even when you said no it completely contradicts what you are saying so abeg it have do, I don belleful. LoLz.

Everything looks contradictory until you understand some fundamentals.

You know,when you tell a P3 pupil that 3-4. = -1, he'll say it's contradictory because he was taught that the answet is 'impossible'.

DeepSight:
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These contradictions are just too horrible. Let me not bother.

You'll understand it the moment you know what trigger or enlightenment is. When your eyes suddenly open and you come to the realization of something that's always there but now been seen differently. That's the type of knowledge we're talking about here as regards doing evil.

I don't think you'll ever understand.

And you should understand that the person who entices you to do Yahoo is also going to be your teacher.

DeepSight:
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Pls forget this matter. It is absurd to say that one creating evil is doing no evil.

The absurdity is in saying that one creates evil also does evil. That means there's no purpose for anything. God just just creates things to do them.

God created food. Does The eat food? No.

Aside from this, scripture is full of the many abominable and despicable acts of Yahweh.

All lies. Bring me the so called scriptures.

Nah. Not with the kind of reasoning you're offering here, I would not want to waste my time.

Probably because you know too little about what I am reasoning about.

[quote author=tctrills post=138109206]Now this is crazy, you are saying that one can have the knowledge to do good and evil without knowing what is good or evil. Haba, how is that possible?
My 10-month-old baby doesn't know good or evil, but somehow, you think she should be able to choose between doing good and evil? How nah?

You really need to explain this, clearly and carefully.[/quote
No. Not like that.

I know that evil exists but I may not know how to do evil. For instance, you know that Yahoo crime exists but you may not know how to do Yahoo. And of course, you may decide never to do it. You could eventually do it if you were enticed by someone.

Please juxtapose this explanation with the Adam and Eve episode and see that they are the forbidden fruit only when they were enticed. The knew evil exists. Even the name of the fruit itself shows they knew it exists.

DeepSight:
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I don't have the strength to go round in absurd circles. That's why I say never mind.

There is no difference between creating evil and doing evil. Evil is not food which one can make and not eat. It exists in its very nature. Anyone creating evil is doing evil. This is not something I can start going around in circles about.

Didn't I say that you don't understand many things?

Evil is a spiritually tangible force that can be unleashed. Same as Good . That's why we say "Hey, he has a good spirit." That means the person does good good. Good exists but not everyone does it. Evil exists but not everyone does it. Both exist because they were created not because they were done. If God does evil without creating evil. He'll be the only one doing evil because He didn't create it. It won't exist. If He does good without creating good, the same logic applies.

I can create a movie without being an actor in that movie.

You are right about my perception of God. Because I am agnostic mostly, so I pretty much have very little to say on that. I just have the notion logically and intuitively that there is an ultimate cause or source. Beyond that, I really don't know anymore claim to know much.

I have created a thread that should help your research in that direction if you're sincere.

DeepSight:
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Never mind.

I don't need to mind. All I know is that the creator or soccer needn't be a footballer. He doesn't even need to have two legs. Creation is different from Action.

And I know that your god has no Creator ID. Otherwise, you would have dangled it in my face as I dangled Yahweh's.

DeepSight:
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God creates evil buth does not do evil.
Gotcha.

LordReed - "Word evil does not mean evil."

Yes. I can create amala without eating amala. Gotcha!


+

I believe God exists.
Yahweh, in my view, is not God.

Where's the ID or your god as the Creator of the world?

DeepSight:
+
What's the point. I gave you one in which he says so himself but all you have done is dance around claiming that he really is referring to non evil things like justified judgement.

Why should I bother. If I were to start listing all of the abominations he has done in scripture, I will obviously be wasting my energy since you can contradict him directly.


Seriously, never mind. It doesn't matter.
Since he doesn't exist.

So, creating is the same as doing?

If Good and Evil are not created, how can anyone do them? God created them. They exist. That does not mean God does them.

And you read about all the extra biblical historical evidence in that same Isaiah 45 and all about the Book of Daniel only to conclude that God doesn't exist? I laugh in Swahili.

I told you, you don't understand many things.

DeepSight:
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This is what I cant stand. You pick a thing that is not evil and use it as an example of the evil that Yahweh says he does. Enough. Don't bother.

Give me a scripture that says Yahweh DOES evil.

DeepSight:
+
Justified judgement is not evil so you can't use that as an example.

But justified judgement is what Yahweh does.

DeepSight:
+
Seems you know better than him, since you are contradicting him. Its alright, never mind.

There's no contradiction. It's all based on the fact that you've misunderstood a lot of things.

Yahweh does only good and not evil. When He judges someone for wickedness and brings evil upon him, that does not translate to him doing evil. If you see that as evil, you're having a lopsided judgement of that action. Let me give you an example.

A man has stolen your goat. He was caught, prosecuted and sentenced to prison. To the man and his loved ones, evil has befallen him. But to you who got justice, good has befallen you. This makes the matter of good and evil somehow subjective. But a wholistic look at the whole thing makes you know that justice is good but it's a bitter experience for the condemned.

These are in levels. There are crimes a person may commit against you that would lead to a death sentence. Evil has befallen the criminal, isn't it? But you who received justice would be glad that such good things have befallen you.

DeepSight:
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Why then was Yahweh afraid that the man had become "like one of us, knowing good and evil.?

Does this not show, if we follow your distinction that Yahweh and his "us" were also capable of doing evil.

Yes. Yahweh is capable of doing anything but He doesn't do evil.

tctrills:
You don't understand my question?
I asked,
Since you believe that man needs the ability to choose, in fact, you call the ability to choose what makes life meaningful and worth living. You must agree that the ability to choose good over evil comes from the knowledge of good and evil. So what was wrong with eating the fruit that gave us the knowledge of good and evil?

Now, I understand you.

The knowledge that good and evil exists is different from the knowledge to be able to do good or evil. The former was what man had before eating the fruit. The latter is what they had after eating tje fruit. That's why the first murder was recorded only after that.

The knowledge of what could be done is separate from the knowledge of how to do it.

LordReed:
You didn't need to say it in the first place because this is not the answer to the question I asked. You are dodging answering the question because you know it will skewer you but that's ok, I think I am satisfied at this point. LoLz.

But I answered your question with explanations which you said you didn't ask for. I did that several times and still added a No at one point.

tctrills:
My question is, without that decision, Man would not have known good nor evil, so the ability to choose good over evil would have been impossible.
Since you believe that man needs the ability to choose, infact you called the ability to choose what makes life meaningful and worth living, then you must agree that the ability to choose good over evil comes from the knowledge of good and evil. Without eating the fruit, man would not have that knowledge and ability.

What then are you inferring?

tctrills:
How can man choose without knowing Good or evil? Such a choice will be meaningless dont you think?

The knowledge itself is not a sin. It is the choice that leads to wrong actions that's a sin. And then sin begets evil.

tctrills:
But then there must be evil and the knowledge of good and evil if we must have the ability to choose. So the event that gave man the knowledge and ability to choose, was it a bad thing?

Man has the innate ability to choose. No event gave man that ability.

Expanse2020:
Not all those jargon you put there from the book that lack integrity 🤣🤣🤣🤣
How can you see truth and still be blind.. those that brought this paper to you they know that the integrity is questionable and it lack integrity too.. the original manuscript can't be found for proofs and what others evidence did you need to know that the book was just coin to enslave African like you

I know you're spewing the lies that your imams tell you regularly. The Bible has no integrity? Please prove it. There's no scientist, archeologist or historian that faults the Bible on any index.

Can you read? Read from the screenshots I attached below before mentioning me.

LordReed:
Which I did but you can't.

No, you used the wrong scripture. The scripture you quoted didn't place God anywhere.

I am not here to argue God's meeting place with you. I am just telling you that you wrongly quoted a scripture that didn't relate.

I didn't ask you to explain anything I asked you to say yes or no to a simple question you said you said no which will translate to to "no, evil is necessary to enjoy evil in heaven". If evil is not necessary to enjoy good in heaven then you are just dribbling your own shadow and hiding behind your finger.

Intelligent human beings don't need to see N and O before they see a No. If you ask to see yes or no, the person's explained position should tell you where they stand. It's when you want to shut people up in order to gain ascendancy over them that you tell them to answer a question in one syllable. Meanwhile, the question itself was asked in many words. Every Yes or No has an explanation behind it.

The conditions in heaven are not the same as earth. Heaven and hearth don't have the same outcomes for every action. In fact, if you throw something up here, it must come down. That's not the same outcome you'll get if you did the same thing in the moon. It is wrong for you to apply earth to heaven because they're on different frequencies. How many times do I have to say this?

DeepSight:
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I quoted more than those two verses and they also included descriptive verses with the throne of God and heavenly hosts.
I drop the topic. This is too escapist and unconvincing.

I am not arguing about the location of God's council.

You feel it's excspisy because you still don't understand my angle of argument.

I am not even saying God's council is not in heaven. I am saying the dude's reference scripture was wrong. That's my point.

God can meet anywhere, but that's not what I'm arguing about.

DeepSight:
+
On the cross, he is said to be bearing the sin of man, hence the argument that God (himself) forsook him at that moment, leading to the cry "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me."

Does that mean He transmitted the sins to heaven? He went to hell afterwards, dropped all the suns there, and returned to earth bound for heaven.

FreeStuffsNG:
Smh.

You're completely ignorant if you don't comprehend why Trump, as bully as he acts, is hesitant.

Attack or kill or Maduro Iranian leaders,unlike Venezuela, there will be immediate and vicious consequences and unlike in the past, US allies, actually privately wants such humiliation for Trump and US.

I am sure that you are not even aware that Elon Musk's spacelink, which US uses to track people and even customers of spacelink down to murder them, has been completely blocked in Iran for more than 48 hours. Trump is now saying he wants to talk to Elon Musk.

How did the Iranians achieve what even Russia couldn't achieve against Spacelink humbled even Trump. How many more surprises from Iran await them?

Unlike Venezuela, Iran is monitoring the US build up of military assets in Jordan, Qatar and Saudi Arabia, sharing the information with the public through the media giving real-time update on stages of US military build up which is now ready for Trump to approve for Iran attack while Iran already responded by setting its assets for total war against US assets , interests and its proxy in occupied Palestine so US has lost the element of surprise while the US is technically blind to what's going on inside Iran. Cyberspace blockage adopted by Iran is unprecedented even to western experts!

It's only a fool who will take such a people for granted. Hit Iran and there will be abundant consequences that even the US military has disclosed to Trump.

There's now countdown to US midterm elections and Trump's party will lose the control of US congress and Trump will be impeached as he predicted and will likely resume his criminal cases. He has so much to lose right from the moment he attacks Iran.

As I type here, there's massive nationwide protests going on simultaneously in US and its proxy, Isreal, occupying Palestine yet their controlled media wants to make it about the protest they sponsored in Iran till the Iranians blocked them out.

Guy, you're so fooled by your religion that you don't ever think straight.

What offence has Iran committed against America directly that should make America go pick him up like they did Maduro? Maduro had crimes he committed against America which made them justify their actions against him. What justification would America have to go pick Ayatollah? Or, you expect them to go in just because they support the Iranian masses? So, in your thinking now, America has not picked up the mumu leader because they're afraid?😟

Expanse2020:
I read your jargon and I see your God is limited to certain and prone to error

That's just in your head. You probably didn't read the historical evidences that confirm what was written. You saw evidence and still have the guts to call evidence jargons? The evidences were not even supplied by me.

DeepSight:
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What does this even mean? Are you saying he was no longer God when on the cross?

He was God in heaven and Man on earth at the same time. What exactly do you need clarification on? Or, are you thinking that His human nature was transmitting evil into heaven? Even as man on earth, Jesus was known to be absolutely sinless.