₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
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Problem is that it is well known that the authors of the gospels in the bible are not even known. People wrote and attributed to the apostles. You can check this out, don't take my word for it.

No no no no. The Christian sect was a persecuted sect in the early days. Therefore, most of them were not known because they met mostly in hiding. But within the sect, they know themselves. And what they passed on is what we hold unto today.

Antichristian2:
At least we truly know the full life of your God wey become man!

Would you please narrate it fully?

Where was Jesus from 1-11 years? Where was Jesus from 13-29 years? Matthew, Mark, Luke and John certainly did have something to hide!

He was in Egypt as a Baby and was returned to Israel after about 3 years. How does that give you salvation?

All those years, He was in His Father's shop learning carpentry. He didn't nothing significant worthy of records other than being obedient to His parents. Again, how does that give you salvation?

Or, do you feel like feeling up those insignificant years with stories from the gospel of Thomas found in the Quran?

DeepSight:
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How do you determine what gospels are fake?
Surely you know the Roman Curia selected those in today's bible from hundreds.

My brother, we're not the ones to determine what's fake. People lived in the times of authors who wrote any book, and the people who lived at the time of the authors know who wrote what? They're the ones who know what's fake and what's genuine. Ours is to accept what they accepted and reject what they rejected.

There are many books being written in our own days that in centuries time, their authorships would be debated. But if those people accept what we accept today and reject what we reject today on the basis of confirmed authorship, they'll be fine.

Antichristian2:
You and balderdash are like 5 and 6!

Where was Jesus from 1-11 years? Where was Jesus from 13-29 years?

This is really error 404!

How does that information save you from your sins?

Even his people have nothing to give about it. It's like he doesn't exist in Israel/Palaestine! Yet you claimed oral tradition before Jesus was passed down when even Jesus's tradition and 88% life span is lost!

How does the history of His lifespan affect the mystery of salvation from sin and the glorious association with the Father?

Are you bragging because of what Mohammed copied from the fake gospel of Thomas?

DeepSight:
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There will be unknown unknowns that we will never even think of because they rest outside our ability to contemplate in the first place just as an ant will never contemplate computer software or poetry or nuclear physics.

Spiot on!

Jaephoenix and lordreed. Please take note of this too. We're very limited and can therefore not make any absolute confusions about anything.

LordReed:
LoLz. You people and mental gymnastics never cease to amaze. How do you go from the universe is god to the universe sent its son to die for sins? Are you even listen to your own jibber jabber? Bwahahahahahaha!

You should laugh at yourself because I never made any of those claims you're making here. Can you show me where I said the universe is God? Why are you atheists like this? Can you now tell me what the universe is as an observer from outside the universe?

LordReed:
You the one spewing babyish jibber jabber. Because we can't natural perceive beyond certain electromagnetic frequencies doesn’t mean they are inscrutable to us. We make instruments for that purpose so to act like this some kind of point is balderdash.

The history of investigation has never revealed any god behind any phenomena so no reason to believe this will be different. It has nothing to do with knowing everything.

If your god is operating on an electromagnetic frequency tell us what the frequency is and if you don't know then stop using your ignorance as a cover for your beliefs.

You mentioned and named electromagnetism because you have had instruments that have perceived that frequency. What about the frequencies your instruments cannot perceive, and have not even been named? I just want you to think in a much broader scope.

DeepSight:
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Too true.


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Too well said. Very well said. I believe that much that we dispute is actually all around us, simply invisible and imperceptible - to most.


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Certain types of meditation I would say. Certain types of openness of spirit and mind, certain types of detachment from the physical. Such as astral travel, out of body experiences for example.

You got it bro!

Infact, it is still within logical reasoning frameworks to assume that the universe itself may be God. We have only seen a little within the universe. No one has seen the whole universe let alone seeing the outside of it.

We cannot truly know what the universe is until we can observe it from the outside of the universe itself. What if this universe itself is a huge living being that has a different build from us, and the planets, and all heavenly bodies are parts of what keeps it alive?

All descriptions of the universe are based on what we see on its inside from its inside. Imagine the microbes inside your gut describing you on the basis of what they see in your stomach? Atheists just need to think harder and stop being myopic. I hope lordreed and jaephoenix in particular are reading.

If the universe is a “being,” then we would see:

- Stars/galaxies as cells?
- Black holes as… pores?
- Humans as microbes in its gut?

No one can ever tell.

Modified: Just thinking out loud. The essence is for us to know that there are possibilities beyond our natural scope.

Antichristian2:
Yeah! The salvation part should have been left for the readers to decipher and not already filtering it for them!

Yes. That's exactly what was done. The Holt Spirit opens the eyes of the predestinated to see beyond the letters

Jesus's life on earth remains lost in the Bible! 12% is nothing to right home about!

No it isn't, and it's inconsequential. His Spirit life is what matters. That's the essence of His coming. Knowing Jesus physicallly without knowing Him spiritually is absolute nonsense.

And the Quran doesn't have the history of Jesus' life, so you know. The fake history was copied from the rejected Gospel of Thomas.

LordReed:
Because the proposed supernatural entity aka god is incoherent and does not fit any aspect of reality. When something doesn't exist definitions or word play will not make it gain existence.

Investigation won't make your god appear just like Investigation into any of the other natural phenomena we previously had no knowledge of did not cause any god to be evident. So I have no good reason to believe this will be any different.

This is babyish talk. By saying investigation won't make it appear even sounds much more incoherent. Because investigation doesn't make anything appear. It reveals what's already there.

And as I said earlier, your capacity to perceive is in itself a limit on your investigation. There are frequencies you cannot perceive and therefore cannot investigate. In fact, a dog and an elephant have better chances than you a human. If you can still argue this, it means you're closed to anything logical, you just want to keep on believing what you believe.

See, as it stands, heaven could be within our universe billions or even trillions of light years away. And also, both God and heaven could also be around us in a frequency we can never naturally perceive. I also believe that there are frequencies in which even our solid state here cannot be perceived.

Know your limitations and stop pretending you know everything and can access everything.

What I know is that Prayer as a spiritual exercise, when practiced consistently can make you perceive things from a different frequency that others cannot perceive.

LordReed:
I am not sure how you are able to conflate or equate unknown with nothing. When we say unknown it means the knowledge of that thing is deficient or not in the current body of knowledge and so deserves some more investigation. Anyone who reads that and thinks these guys are saying nothing did it must be some kind of supreme mental gymnast.

Where that gets interesting is that if it's unknown, how did it translate to It doesn't exist.

If you see it as something deserving further investigation, then you're agnostic. Not an atheist.

You cannot outrightly come out and say there's no God if you still need further investigation.

DeepSight:
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Loaded. Lots of sound points. Particularly how little our senses can sense. And our science being tied to what we can sense either directly or indirectly must also be greatly limited.

Nevertheless let me caution that you may have misrepresented LordReed and Japhoenix a bit.

Where I feel you are right again is the idea of causation, sadly many still try to deny it, saying that such breaks down at certain levels of physics - which is not proven at all.

l

Let's not complicate the issue about causation for atheists. Their stance is entirely contradictory, and let me spell it out in simple terms.

If I say for example, the big bang happened and was caused by nothing, that literally means the big bang didn't start at any point in time. It is continous workflow from eternity which is very illogical. Atheists on this thread have said they make no such claims.

Niw if I say the big bang's causation was unknown. It gets really interesting because "unknown" is not the same as "nothing", so how does this justify the idea that there's no God. "I don't know what caused the big bang" cannot be rendered as God or the Causer of the big bang does not exist because "I don't know" is not the same thing as "It doesn't exist". Not knowing what caused something is not a logical basis for concluding that the cause doesn't exist.

So, without referring to physics, the atheists positions are logically unsound.

Antichristian2:
There's no Islamic connotation in the OP. That only exists in your head! I only asked you why Approximately 12% of Jesus's life span is detailed in the Bible, mainly focusing on his public ministry and brief infancy/childhood narratives. The rest of his life, especially his early years, is largely unrecorded or only briefly mentioned.

There must be a reason to this. Your attached is rejected by the early church fathers!

You didn't ask me the WHY, I would have answered you that the Bible is not about the history of Jesus but about the salvation of mankind.

DeepSight:
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In fairness, the evidence of how this universe came about is likely permanently outside the paygrade or capacity of this humanity.
It is also likely outside the realm of physical science alone.

You're correct but the situation is not just 'likely', it's the absolute truth.

Most of what exists is entirely invisible to us. Humans only see light between 430-790THz and hear sounds between 20Hz-20KHz.

This is a popular science fact meant to highlight the limitations of human senses, emphasizing how much of reality we miss.

Vision (light) :
Human eyes detect only a tiny sliver of the electromagnetic spectrum called visible light.

This corresponds to wavelengths roughly 380–750 nanometers (nm), which translates to frequencies of about 400–790 THz (terahertz, or trillion hertz).

- Red light: lower end, around 430 THz.
- Violet light: higher end, around 790 THz.

The numbers (430–790 THz) are a common scientific approximation.

Everything else—infrared (heat), ultraviolet, X-rays, radio waves, microwaves, gamma rays—is invisible to us without tools like cameras, telescopes, or detectors. And these instruments still remain limited in capabilities. Visible light is less than 0.005% of the full electromagnetic spectrum, so most electromagnetic radiation (and much of what it reveals about the universe) is invisible.

Hearing (sound) .:
Humans typically hear sounds with frequencies from 20 Hz (very low bass) to 20,000 Hz (20 kHz, high-pitched).

"20Hz-20KHz," is the standard adult range (though it narrows with age, especially above 15–17 kHz).

Sounds below 20 Hz (infrasound) or above 20 kHz (ultrasound) exist but are inaudible to us—animals like elephants (infrasound) or bats/dogs (ultrasound) can detect them. And you can be rest assured there are other unnamed sound frequencies nothing in the world has ever detected.

The Broader Point
Philosophically/scientifically: our senses evolved for survival, not to perceive "everything." Vast parts of reality—dark matter/energy (95% of the universe), non-visible radiation, inaudible vibrations—are "invisible" or imperceptible. We rely on science and technology to uncover an infinitesimally small percentage of them. Even what we know if the universe today as vast as that knowledge is, is still approximately 0% of the entire universe.

So, how can any same man confidently say "There's no God" as though he has seen, heard and known everything there is. It is absolute foolishness.

I have come to a point of realization that even the so called "Spirit realm" is simply a frequency that exists beyond the bondaries of our natural perception. Nobody sees everything that's around him at any given time. Infact, the unseen is infinitely more than the seen.

An atheist is like a Peck of chickens hatched and grown in a closed and conditioned cage with just a hole somewhere on the cage for passing food and water. It will be foolish for those chickens to arise one day, and say there's no human just because they've never seen or perceived anything beyond the walls of their cage. And when asked how the food from that hole happens, they answer it happens from nothing or unknown (like what I have seen lordreed and jaephoenix claim on this thread). The truth is that the food comes from something unknown indeed to the chickens but claiming there's no entity behind the food is absolute foolishness.

Both claims of the world coming from nothing and/or unknown leading to a conclusion that there's no God just make me chuckle. They don't sound intelligent to me.

Disinfectant123 is asking for evidence that the God exists without seeing that there's no evidence He doesn't.

If atheists have any shame, Cycleoftheworld has dissipated virtually all the arguments atheists hold onto on this thread, but since Atheism itself is some form of 'religion', atheists must defend themselves even with lies, denials and misinformation.

What we know as humans even with our scientific advancements is still nothingness compared to what there is. Wait until you know everything at least, before you say in absolutes that there's no God. And you guys should stop being illogical and contradictory because claiming there's no God is the same as claiming there's no cause. And science has established that effects are always causative. All the effects we see in the universe were therefore caused.Whatever caused them, be it human or things, or places or whatever, whether imaginable or unimaginable is what we call God. A reasonable human would go on a quest for find what it is rather that talk in absolutes about God not existing. Majority of the scientists in the world actually believe in the existence of God. Only a very small percentage are atheists.

We humans don't know anything about the universe yet. We're still exploring. We don't even know anything about our world yet. We have very little knowledge of it because we're limited in sight and in hearing. Wise men would prepare for evehtualities in such situations as ours. Walking arrogantly with blind confidence is foolhardy.

Antichristian2:
Yes, at least your people that know you should tell stories about you!

Even Israelites and Palestinians, the people of Jesus know next to nothing about him.

Just for excursions and tourism!

And in addition to my previous response, I know you're saying all these because you think you know the early life of Jesus from your Quran. The fake stories of Jesus' early life in your Quran was copied verbatim by Mohammed from the Gospel of Thomas, and believed worldwide by many deceived muslims who thought Mohammed got those stories from heaven. Lol.

Antichristian2:
Yes, at least your people that know you should tell stories about you!

Even Israelites and Palestinians, the people of Jesus know next to nothing about him.

Just for excursions and tourism!

We know the stories of his birth and his early childhood. His conception was prophesied by an angel to Mary. Mary visited her cousin while pregnant and the cousin Elizabeth prophesied about the Baby Jesus in her womb. He was born in a manger. Visited by shepherds and 3 wise men from the east. During his dedication on his 8th day, Anna a prophetess prophesied about him. Simeon also and old man prophesied about the Baby Jesus in the temple on the day of His dedication. He was pursued by Herod as a Baby. His father took him to Egypt to escape Herod's hand. Nothing significant happened in his life afterwards until he was twelve when he disputed with doctors of law in the temple.

This is just to come down to your level of reasoning. A popular man does not necessarily have his early years recorded. If that's not true, tell me the early years of TY Danjuma.

Antichristian2:
Everyone knew Jesus? But no one wrote anything about his early life than just a couple of months after birth, a bit around twelve and then three years after 30.

He is well known truly!

So, in your logic, the proof that everyone knows you is that someone would write about your early life? SMH.

Antichristian2:
These doesn't show he was among the Pharisees Jesus met while alive. Paul was a Popular figure! Even Luke was Paul's guy, never wrote anything about his master Paul meeting Jesus for once!

Being a Pharisee does not make Paul know Jesus.

I can be going on the road somewhere in Lagos today and claim a voice called me and i saw a bright light....Will that be Jesus too?

Jesus was a popular figure in his days. Everyone knew him including many outside of Israel.

How can you say a man over 30yrs old does not know Tinubu just because he has never met him one on one? Jesus was known throughout Judea and Samaria, and even outside of that geographic location.

That's why, even Tetullus who spoke against Paul before Felix never asked who.jesus was even though no mention of Tetullus ever appeared in scriptures up till that time.

You don't expect everything to be recorded when reading a book. Use your senses too to join scenes together. As at the time Paul was going to Damascus, he was 30years old. He was not a baby who wouldn't know such a public figure as Jesus in little Judea. Gamalieli, who was Paul's teacher knew Jesus very well. Caiaphas a leader of the Pharisees who was the high priest in Jesus' days knew Jesus very well.

Paul also explained himself and his encounters to Jesus' disciples and they confirmed to him he really met Jesus. Paul didn't preach to anybody until that confirmation.

Also, the outstanding miracles Paul did in the name of Jesus went further to prove he really met Jesus.

popp:
Out of fear of the rain that will descend heavily.

Try harder!

You go explain tire!

wallrichy:
You are very correct but the intention or rather the thought of the US and the Israel wasn't to go into Iran to kill Ayatollahs after the destruction of the Nuclear Sites. The US and Israel wanted and tried erupting a revolution, a revolution by the Iranians themselves to kill Ayatollah and take over the government themselves by the assistant and support of US and Israel. Remember that Israel even campaigned throughout Iran by dropping inscribed leaflets to awake a revolution in Iran during that 12 days war. Actually, what's happening now in Iran is part of the support rendered by the US and the Israel. The protest happening right now in Iran is increasing everyday and could lead to the end of Ayatollah demonic rule. THE US and Israel have come up with a plan since some decades ago by only influencing change of government but not physically present to do the dirty jobs themselves like the US did in Iraq, Vietnam , Panama etc....the US rather prefer to instigate the population against their government just like they did in Libya, Venezuela, etc.....if not cos of drugs, US wouldn't have invaded Venezuela to pick Maduro........

Yeah, that's also correct but Israel already wanted Ayatollah killed. It was Trump that rejected the plan.The Iranian revolt was America's main objective but for Israel, that was a plan B. Not the main plan.

popp:
Even men from the State don't swallow whatever he says but you.

Again, another lamba from the liar who cannot show us proof of Bibi begging as he claimed.

popp:
Trump is loquacious, so stop taking his gush dead serious.

Trump is loquacious and that doesn't mean he lies. What I told you is not based on what tweeted but on successive events leading to Trump's twees. Loquaciousness is not the same thing as being a liar. If you're not a liar, give us your Bibi begging reference.

popp:
So a twit from Trump is what is driving you gaga?

Where were you when it was all going down as you said?

That tweet was supposed to be a summary for ignorant folks who can't follow any news except to cook up their own news in their own heads.

Give us the begging news of Bibi or stay silent.

popp:
Bring one that backs the one you wrote

This is common knowledge. We're you in Mars when all these were happening?

Why was Ayatollah hiding during all.those times? Meanwhile, Bibi never hid. You can check out Trump's last Twitter post after the 12 day war where he berated Ayatollah for claiming victory when he was supposed to be thanking America for saving his life.

https://cbsaustin.com/news/nation-world/ayatollah-khameneis-bold-victory-claim-leaves-trump-fuming-iran-was-decimated-israel-victory-claims-truth-social?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Now, give us your own Bibi begging reference!

popp:
Natanyahu that was begging for the War to stop.

If it were helpless civilians in the City of Gaza, he would have been showcasing stubbornness, but in this case, he took a chill pill ASAP.

Please bring references to prove Netanyahu was begging. One respected news agency that published the begging should suffice.

puremaker7:
😂 did Trump call you to tell you all these info

Were you away in Venus when all these were happening?

popp:
You just wrote long letters as if there is any sense in all what you wrote.

If not the intervention by Mr. Trump, it was predicted that within the said twelve days, Isreal will become bare and at the mercy of Iran.

That was why Trump hurriedly came. Just to save Isreal.

That prediction happened only in your head.

During those 12 days, Israel already eliminated many of Iran's top generals and several key security chiefs. Iran never recovered from the shock. Up till recently, they kept hunting themselves down thinking they were betrayed by 5th columnists. They even though they were hit by some supernatural forces.

If Trump didn't intervene, Ayatollah would be a dead man by now. He was in hiding throughout. Meanwhile, Bibi never hid, and thru know exactly where Ayatollah was.

dappydozzy:
Your analysis is very dumb. They were fighting Iran so who were they fighting, they killed Iranian nuclear scientists and Iranian generals yet you claim they are not fighting Iran. You attack the national pride of a nation. Its military yet you say they are not fighting Iran. I have never seen an analysis as dumb as this. You claim you know something yet you know nothing . So are you saying the Iranians dont like military might, no. The reasons for the Iranian protests is economic not about Iran's military aspirations.

If they were fighting Iran, they would make all of Iran to boil, afterall they were in charge of the skies. They were fighting Iran's leaders, not Iranians. And both Israel and Iranians were on the same page during those times. The Iranians hated their leaders and wanted then eliminated. Israel was even assuring them. Iranians want Ayatollah and all his leadership network dead.

MeaslesMumpsRub:
Tehran will level Israel in 8 days if anything happens to the Ayatollah

And you think Israel wasn't prepared for the aftermath? You're just assuming. Israel is stronger than Iran militarily even on global military strength index.

Akalia:
Bro I know Israel is the strongest military power in the middle east and stretching a little beyond but even at that Isreal is limited when it comes to projecting power across border and sustaining for a very long time.
In my logic submission, Israel couldn't had been able to sustain the military offensive against Iran why because, the unfolding reality would turn to a conflict of attrition- kind of what Russia and Ukraine are facing currently.
War of attrition is a dreadful as dreaded kind of reality when it comes to armed conflict that undermines an entity militarily.

You're correct but in a full blown war, what advantages has a nation got over an enemy that has taken over her skies? Israel would not even permit one shot into its territory because there'll be a stiffer control of Iran's skies with many kore warplanes in a full blown war. The advantage Iran had was that Israel wasn't fighting Iran. She was fighting Iran's leadership.

Blazebond:
Brainwashed pity person, Isreal should have fought alone NAU,abi una think say na everyone be clown like Una,yeye religious Zealot's.

Israel fought alone and eliminated all those they wanted to eliminate. America only came in to save Ayatollah s life. If America didn't come in , ayahtolla would have been seeing his virgins by now. You guys should go give thanks to America.

Little do you even know that you're the one who has been brainwashed with dubious deceits.

Ask yourself why Iranians are currently looking for the death of Ayatollah while celebrating Israel? You here in far away Nigeria, brainwashed and blinded by religion cannot see basic truths.

Mbanda:
So you don't know that DomPerignon is a known l!@r in this form?
Abeg always research everything he says, because he is not a soothsayer.

Oh, thanks for the heads-up.