₦airaland Forum

gohf:
bro when I did that previously you ignored the post.

Because you didn't hit any point.

Just like in your last response where you were comparing Boaz a normal Israelite who redeemed his kinsman like all Israelites do, to Jesus who redeemed all mankind for all eternity. Not with money like Boaz but with His Blood. You don't even seem to see that His Blood is eternal Blood for it to have redemption power for all future generations of mankind without end. No human blood can atone like that.

How do they look the same? I'm baffled.

gohf:
Brenbentondiaz is right, you manipulate scriptures but nevertheless Boaz isn't he also a Redeemer according to the book of Ruth especially chapter 4. But does that make Boaz God or a God?

Who did Boaz redeem?

Leviticus 25 says a kinsman can redeem his kinsman. Boaz did that with cash. It's a custom in Israel according to the law. Boaz didn't redeem humanity. Jesus did. He did that without cash.

By the way, is it only the Redeemer side of the post that you have issues with? You need to raise issues with all the single items raised on all three threads to dismantle the Divnity of Christ.

Again, God and Christ are designated Redeemer, not Redeemers of mankind. Who then is Jesus?

Brenbentondiaz:
You were caught manipulating scriptures, and you came with this? Lolz.

No need to argue with you. You left off all that was said in the opening thread to dwell on frivolities.

Well, here's more for you:

Are there two Rocks?

God as the Rock

Deuteronomy 32:4 – “He is the Rock, His work is perfect: for all His ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is He.”

Psalm 18:31 – “For who is God save the LORD? Or who is a Rock save our God?”

Note: There's no other Rock except our God.

But we also see Christ as Rock. If we have on One Rock and not Rocks, who then is Christ? Another Rock?

Christ as the Rock

1 Corinthians 10:4 – “And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”

1 Peter 2:7-8 – “The stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, and a stone of stumbling, and a Rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word...”

Question: Are there two Rocks upholding Israel and the Church, or is this one eternal Rock revealed as both Yahweh and Christ?

Are there two Redeemers?

God as Redeemer
Isaiah 44:6 – “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his Redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.”

Isaiah 49:26 – “And all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.”

Christ as Redeemer

Galatians 3:13 – “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us...”

Titus 2:13-14 – “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity...”

Revelation 5:9 – “...for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.”

Question: If Jehovah alone is the Redeemer, and Christ is also called our Redeemer, are there two redeemers—or is this one God who redeems in the person of the Son?

Janosky, gohf, truthseeker10

AfonjaPriest:
This man supports the killing of Palestinians and you want me to believe he knows God.
Well, only the Devil can attest to that on Earth.

Are you saying he should rather support Hamas to keep holding Israeli hostages without ever releasing them?

Every sane person knows that Hanas can end the war if they release people's loved ones held against their will for doing nothing wrong at all!

Truthseeker10:
1)Does the Bible say that the man was without eyes? If no did you not show me through Ai that some people acknowledged that he was without eyes?

2)Is the Ai info below correct that your submission that God is one person is a contradiction to certain biblical references.

Is the Bible a history book? Don't we use AI for research? Is AI used for interpreting the Bible as you did? If AI is your interepreter, then what were you before AI. I only used AI to tell tell the historical facts most scholars believe about the man. My knowledge of that fact didn't come from AI actually. I only queried AI about it in hope it would tell you something behind the man's history.

3)Did you not claim that man is made up of three seperate parts? Kindly show us where the bible says so

Yes, I did. If I show you Scriptures, would you believe? The ones I already showed you here are from the Quran?

I wouldn't want to go into arguments regarding the Spirit, Soul and Body of man. If you're ignorant, remain ignorant if you wish. These are the Scriptures, you can wrest them as you did all the ones on my threads.

1 Thessalonians 5:23:
"May your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Hebrews 4:12:
"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit."

Matthew 10:28:
"Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

There are several other Scriptures but if you cannot learn from the above, you will still not learn even from a thousand Scriptures.

Truthseeker10:
1)This was your exact statement in bold below.

Jesus had to answer them that it was for the Son of man to be glorified that that man was born blind, without eyes.

So am I not justified to ask you where Jesus mentioned "it was for the son of man to be glorified that that man was born blind, without eyes" in the biblical passage that you are referencing?

I did not quote the Scripture. I was only talking about that scripture and laid a foundation for what I wanted to say. I then went on to explain that the man was said to be without eye sockets.

2)You want me to believe your Ai submission to validated your interpretation of John 9:7, but you've refused to admit that the Ai info below is also correct that your submission that God is one person is a contradiction to certain biblical references.

My submission is not AI submission. Why should I depend on your AI to know the Word of God?

3)You've also refuse to show us where Genesis 2:7 mentioned God putting soul into Adam?

When did you and I discuss about soul inside Adam?

zeuss:
Because Jerusalem belongs to Hebrews as recorded by the Roman empire and Bible 2200 years ago....the Arabs got into the area by force of war 1000 years ago as recorded in recent history. The rightful owners want it back. It's only fair Israel gets back it property. Entire North Africa was also grabbed by Arab with force of war same as turkey

The Arabs never grabbed Israel by force of war actually. They settled there when the inhabitants have scattered abroad. Those Arabs came, overpopulated the few remnant Jews that were left behind, and then started claiming the land as theirs. How's the land theirs?

Truthseeker10:
1)So in other words your paraphrase was a lie....Jesus did not say "son of man to be glorified".

Call it what you may. An oversight can be termed a lie for your argument purposes. My paraphrase was what I remembered about the verse. I quoted it offhand. I even said John 10, instead of John 9. That too was a lie. When you quoted the verse out, I saw that the verse even said something much more deeper than I thought. It validated the points I was making more than the paraphrase. Call it a lie if that suits you well.

2) you claimed I added "without eyes" to your statement. That is also a lie by virtue of the screenshot below.

You are lying of course. Show me where I said you added that to my statement? I said you added that to the verse as though that was how I quoted it. I know you deliberately framed your post to indicate I said "my statement" in order to deceive. After I alleged that I didn't quote that in the verse, I then continued to buttrress the statement. I never denied making the statement but denied making it part of the verse as you did. If I denied making the statement, how come I went ahead to establish what you said I denied?

Why do you like deceit?

Ken4Christ:
Don't waste your time on Boomark and his ignorant colleagues. There's no way they can understand spiritual truth unless they are born again.

They are in the dark trying to understand light. It's not possible.

You're right my brother. But, the Scriptures say we should earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered unto the saints. We're not trying to teach them but trying to defend the faith so that new babies in Christ who are just getting to know the Lord will not be misled by their errors.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus said:


I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— ‭John 17:22 NIV‬

And also:


But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”. ‭Acts 1:8 NIV‬


The first says all disciples will become One just as Jesus and his father are one.
Does this mean all disciples are the same person?
The second says his disciples will serve as his witnesses.
Does that mean whenever people see his disciples they have seen Jesus?

“Whoever receives you receives me also, and whoever receives me receives also the One who sent me" Matthew 10:40
So if people have seen Jesus' disciples they have seen Jesus and whoever has seen Jesus has seen the one who sent Jesus!

All these are different contexts. Let's look at the very context of the "I and my Father are One" statement:

John 10:

"28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”


Note: He first said, no one can snatch them out My hand. Then, he said, no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. Why? My hand and the Father's hand are mine. The are the same hand because, I and the Father are One.

Let's go further:

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

The Jews fully understood what Jesus was saying, which you don't understand. See their response.

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.

Did Jesus deny the allegation? No. Did The say the Jews didn't understand what He was saying? No. He knew they were right about His claim of being God. But they were wrong to think He was a a mere man.

Truthseeker10:
I never said God was not glorified. The question is simple.

Where does John 9:3 mention "it was for the Son of man to be glorified that that man was born blind, without eyes"?

King James Bible
Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

I did not quote the verse directly, I only paraphrased offhand. But the very verse itself authenticates my assertion more that what I thought.

My the work Jesus did, He manifested the Works of God. He worked the works only God can do as a sign that He Himself is the same eternal Being who created the eyes.

You added the "born without eyes" phrase which I never added. You should tell us in which scripture you found that. I only told you that some historical texts said the man actually had no eyeballs in his head. He was said to have more than ordinarily blindness. He had no eyes.

Truthseeker10:
1)So the other opinions of Trinitarians are wrong opinions. Only FxMasterz has the right opinion about trinity?

2)How do you tackle the obstacles of your submission below?

All these your AI generated texts only complicated matters for you but not for those who are led by the Spirit.


Mam has a Body, Soul and Spirit. All three function separately, and that does not mean that the man is three in number. Have you heard Solomon saying "I communed with my Spirit"? Ecclesiastes 1:16.

Also, if I am the CEO of Access Bank as well as the Accountant for DD Arts and Creations, if I want to obtain a loan from Access Bank, won't I as Accountant of DD Arts and Creations write a loan application request to the CEO of Access Bank which is also myself?

The moment you understand that God distributes roles to Himself and assigned those roles to different parts of His manifestation, you will have a clearer understanding of God. Otherwise, you'll be in paganism with a one God, 3 Gods nonsense.

MaxInDHouse:
Please leave the English as written and allow everyone figure it out themselves!

No need to figure anything out except you want to add your own meaning as Jesus' interpreter. The statement is clear enough. "Me and My Father are One " Further buttressed by another statement: He who has seen Me has seen the Father.

Janosky:
John 5:37, Jesus teaching
.." The Father who sent me,....you have NEVER seen his form nor heard his voice".

FxMaster teaching: the Father is Jesus.
Oga ,continue deceiving yourself



John 17:21-23
"that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us
so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me,
that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity

" they (disciples) maybe in us (in God & his son , Jesus)".

Jesus Christ shows you don't understand the scriptures.

Is this the first time you'll be hearing that Jesus talks as man and as God? Would you reject the God talks just because of the man talk? Even when the Pharisees sent some people to go arrest Jesus in John 7, didn't you read their report in verse 46? The Pharisees asked them how far about the man they asked them to arrest, they replied "Never man spake like this man."

Don't be confused. Jesus is fully God and fully man. Accept all of who Jesus is and not just a part of Him.

Truthseeker10:
Is the write up below correct? Yes or no?

Have you read that I do not go by popular opinion?

I don't buy anything anyone says. I study the Scriptures for myself, lest be deceived or be miguided by men like myself.

What I understand of the Trinity from my own personal study of Scripture is what I have explained so far.

Truthseeker10:
Where does John 9:3 mention "it was for the Son of man to be glorified that that man was born blind, without eyes"?

King James Bible
Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Was God not glorified by that miracle? Yes, or no?

MaxInDHouse:
You only need to say exactly what he said then leave it open for everyone to figure it out for themselves.
I believe he meant representing the one who sent him and as shown in his prayer he has his own mind {Luke 22:42} so the oneness connotes agreement not sameness!

That's exactly what I did. I only explained the English with a similar English sentence for simplicity.

You're are telling us what he meant as though you're a mind reader for Jesus. It's even more damaging that what you said He meant is contrary to what He said.

There's no inference that makes the Oneness connotes agreement. The context of that conversation has nothing to do with agreement.

PulsingPurple:
I think I've gotten what I wanted... Appreciate the details in each response. 🙏

I'm still seeing misrepresentations of my words but all is well.
One day I hope we'll get to talk about this when there's more knowledge available, possibly when there's a better world available.

Alright brother.

I really enjoyed discussing with you.

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted is enough evidence they are two separate persons not ONE!

But He Himself said they are ONE! You know Him more than He knows Himself?

Now, if you cannot understand what I have written here below, my friend, you cannot be helped. I posted it for someone and I thought it could be useful here too:

I have used this illustration severally, let me use it again.

I'm an artiste acting two different roles in a movie documenting the biography of my life. Call me Jones but in my movie, I'm acting Felix and King Kong - an ape.

Jones is the real man. Felix and King Kong are just various manifestations of Jones in the movie. They're all the selfsame person.

The moment we understand that man sold man in the garden of Eden, we'll also understand that only man can redeem man, as per the law of Redemption. Read Leviticus from 25 upwards. You'll discover that if a man sells himself into slavery, only his kinsmen can redeem him. To redeem that man legally, you must first become his kinsman one way or the other. Otherwise, that man remains a slave for life.

That was the situation with man. Man sold man, and man was unable to redeem man. Meaning, man will remain a slave of Satan for life. You see, Satan even boasted to Jesus on the mountain of temptation that everything has been delivered to him, and he can give it to whomsoever he likes. Remember? They were rightfully his because Adam sold them. Now, no man can meet the criteria for redeeming what Adam sold. Man was in a hopeless situation.

So, what did God do? He stepped into the earthly realm to become man in order to redeem man. Otherwise, there'll be no.hope for man. Now, that God has come into the scene, we now have a lovely hope - Christ in us, the Hope of Glory. But before Christ paid the price, Satan has boasted that all the glories of this world are his.

So, when we understand the problem. That is, the reason for Jesus' coming. The very problem He came to solve, we would not be confused as to who He is. He is the selfsame God who became man to solve the impossible problem of man. Otherwise, we will be eternally stuck in slavery to Satan. Man couldn't save himself.

So, like the scripture I quoted in Micah 4:2 in a previous post. There comes a ruler of Israel whose going forth is from everlasting.

Just ponder on that. Someone whose going forth is from eternity past. Someone who has no beginning is definitely none other than the Ancient of days who has neither a beginning nor an end. Isaiah called Him the Son that will be born, whose name is also called The Mighty God, the Everlasting Father.

Are the scriptures lying? No. They're revealing the mystery of Godliness. How God made Himself manifest in the flesh to solve man's problem of redemption. Jesus is our Kinsman Redeemer. The Word that was God. And that Word that became flesh and DWELT AMONG MEN. These are no mere statements.

MaxInDHouse:
Aren't you the person who typed this?



So you suddenly don't want to hear the meaning but what he said shey?
Well what he said is simple but what he meant is the issue now!

Wow,I didn't interpreat what He MEANT, I only simplified what He said.

I and my Father are One can be understood in none other context than that oneness of inseparable entities.

PulsingPurple:
If I keep talking, it'll almost sound like I want an argument. Meanwhile all is cool here bro. 😅

Asides some points you're making (which I'm clearly understanding), all your main points still back the explanation I gave regarding what I believe personally. Like every single thing you've said would still hold if you apply them to my own version of belief.

The only thing I should clarify is that I didn't exactly say there are three distinct "Gods" (making me polytheistic), rather I said: 'the one we call Jehovah is the God'
Then the rest are: 'in the same caliber'.

It's complicated talk I agree, but then it also comes down to understanding of terms and knowing which definition a speaker is referring to at that moment. That's God as a title, God as a class, God as a placeholder name.

And well, if your beliefs make you "polytheistic" and you haven't been convinced they are false, do you have any other option, than to be a "polytheist"? 🥲

Smiling, except that the religion you actually claim to profess does not give roon for polytheism. That puts you in a tight corner.

Like I have explained in my previous post, there are no God calibers. Instead, there are God manifestations.

I have used this illustration severally, let me use it again.

I'm an artiste acting two different roles in a movie documenting the biography of my life. Call me Jones but in my movie, I'm acting Felix and King Kong - an ape.

Jones is the real man. Felix and King Kong are just various manifestations of Jones in the movie. They're all the selfsame person.

The moment we understand that man sold man in the garden of Eden, we'll also understand that only man can redeem man, as per the law of Redemption. Read Leviticus from 25 upwards. You'll discover that if a man sells himself into slavery, only his kinsmen can redeem him. To redeem that man legally, you must first become his kinsman one way or the other. Otherwise, that man remains a slave for life.

That was the situation with man. Man sold man, and man was unable to redeem man. Meaning, man will remain a slave of Satan for life. You see, Satan even boasted to Jesus on the mountain of temptation that everything has been delivered to him, and he can give it to whomsoever he likes. Remember? They were rightfully his because Adam sold them. Now, no man can meet the criteria for redeeming what Adam sold. Man was in a hopeless situation.

So, what did God do? He stepped into the earthly realm to become man in order to redeem man. Otherwise, there'll be no.hope for man. Now, that God has come into the scene, we now have a lovely hope - Christ in us, the Hope of Glory. But before Christ paid the price, Satan has boasted that all the glories of this world are his.

So, when we understand the problem. That is, the reason for Jesus' coming. The very problem He came to solve, we would not be confused as to who He is. He is the selfsame God who became man to solve the impossible problem of man. Otherwise, we will be eternally stuck in slavery to Satan. Man couldn't save himself.

So, like the scripture I quoted in Micah 4:2 in a previous post. There comes a ruler of Israel whose going forth is from everlasting.

Just ponder on that. Someone whose going forth is from eternity past. Someone who has no beginning is definitely none other than the Ancient of days who has neither a begining nor an end. Isaiah called Him the Son that will be born, whose name is also called The Mighty God, the Everlasting Father.

Are the scriptures lying? No. They're revealing the mystery of Godliness. How God made Himself manifest in the flesh to solve man's problem of redemption. Jesus is our Kinsman Redeemer. The Word that was God. And that Word that became flesh and DWELT AMONG MEN. These are no mere statements.

MaxInDHouse:
He meant God sent him as His representative it's like Tinubu sending someone to represent him in your local government whatever such a person says or does is to be taken as what Tinubu would have done if he's there in person because he's the one who sent him.

Yup don't need to tell us what He meant. Tell us what He said. That's all. Who made you His interpreter?

We're talking what The said, and not what He meant. You are not His interpreter, so stop making such errors.

MaxInDHouse:
Your own insertion!

Jesus said when he feels different from what his father wants him to do:

“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” Luke 22:42 NIV


Evidence they are not same person!

Clearly as man. Chai, how would you guys understand?

What's my own insertion? He Himself said I and my Father are One. Or you didn't also hear Him tell Phillip that whoever has seen Him has seen the Father?

Silasworld:
I think less population equals more peace.
Countries with too much population can be somehow difficult to govern

Absolutely correct!

Even families with too much population go get too much wahala.

Softmirror:
The whole population of Iceland is not up to 400,000. Some Local Government in Nigeria can earn such status.

You're right o. In fact, many Local Government Areas in Nigeria are more peaceful than Iceland.

TenQ:
Just as Muslims, the rejection of the Trinity of God made them to create for themselves a God in their own image and thinking... They call him Jehovah and the lesser god angel Michael

Lol.

You got me laughing, hahaha.

They created a god in their own Image, after their own likeness, and named him Jehovah. Hahaha.

Janosky:
Why don't you study John 14:24 & John 13:16 to understand John 14:9?

I sent my Servant to meet you to deliver my message to you,my servant met you & gave you my message .
Oga,do you need to see me his Boss?

But that's not what He said. He didn't say, you don't need to see the boss. He said "Whoever has seen me has already seen the Father." He then went further to say, the Father is in Me and I am in the Father. Meaning we're One inseparable Being.

PulsingPurple:
Okay let me try hitting the nail on the head and go straight to my beliefs too.

Maybe it seemed like I was ignorant or disagreed with Jesus and the Holy Spirit being "God".

So, yes and yes, I'd agree with you here (probably 100% sef).

But the question for me isn't whether the Holy Spirit is God, I already understand He is so everything you've said flows.

If we come back to the original reasoning however, the question is whether God is one main God expressing the entirety of Himself as three separate Entities (to which you've said yes).

Here's what I usually say:
A lion is a lion. The child of a lion is a lion. The bones of a lion are still part of the lion.

I somehow believe that they're all in the same caliber of entities, the caliber above everything else.
And that the one we call Jehovah is the God.
But then the Scriptures actually stress a father-son relationship between God and Jesus so I do believe that Jehovah somehow created Jesus as a son of sort and elevated Him so much, putting Him in so much power, authority, control, obligation that He's almost as important as God Himself (if not more), and together they're working to achieve the goals of the Father, which by extension is also the goal of Jesus.
And because of the way they set up their relationship, everywhere you see the Father, you see the Son, and vice versa. Implying that the things that make up Jehovah, that make Him God are also the same things that make up Jesus, making Him God too (in all these, roles stay clear, pronounced. And these roles varied across different times).
Then I believe the Holy Spirit (possibly different Spirits acting in unison) is an actual extension/part of Jehovah Himself, specially curated to dwell with us and all you've said (amongst other things), not much there that I think is worth trying to explain at this my stage of growth.

Which takes us back to where we started at first... Different Entities, or one multi-expressional Entity.

Thanks for your explanation brother.

However, let me put it straight to you that your explanation brings up a lot of problems because your position leans towards polytheism. Yeah, a Son of God should be God and not man, but God does not beget using the same process by which man begets.


God begets by multiplying Himself like a biological cell does. Just that, He's just 3 manifestatiion. Let me take for Instancce Moses and the 70 elders in Numbers 11. God told Moses that He'll take the Spirit upon Moses and impart the 70 elders so they can support him in leadership. In the end, we had 70 people imbued with the Spirit of God who started prophesying. Did they Spirit of God become 71? No. The Spirit of God is One Spirit.

Infact, the Bible explicitly states that there's One Spirit (Ephesians 4:4), but we see Him indwelling millions of Believers. All those millions of Believers each have a manifestation of the Spirit but there's just one Holy Spirit, not millions.

If Jesus is a separate entity from.tje Father and not a manifestation of the Father HIMSELF, then, we become polytheists if we calm Jesus God. However, the Bible gives no.room for polytheism. There's only one God.

Then, when you search the Scriptures deeply, you'll see many overlapping activities of the Father and Son. For example, who created all things? The Father of course. But the New Testament abundantly tells us, the Son created all things. Is that contradictory? No. The Father and the Son are the same Person. In Revelation 21, we are told that the New Jerusalem shall be lighted by God and the Lamb, then, we hear, and He (Not They) shall be the Light of it. Take a look also at Revelation 7:17. We have only one throne in heaven throughout the Book of Revelation. The throne is occupied by God Almighty. Suddenly, in Revelation 7:17,'we see the Lamb in the midst of the throne. That same one throne is for both God and the Lamb This shows indeed that "The Father and I are One" as Jesus already said.

And conclusively, let's hear what Jesus said to Philp in John 14, when Philip was asking Him to show them the Father.


"Have I been with you for so long a time and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Janosky:
Let me ask you just Only 2 questions.
Oga, how many persons did Jesus Christ worship?

Which person did God his Father worship?

Your questions have only one answer. Abd here is it:

Jesus waa both man and God. As man The called Father God, as God, He's worshiped. This will not be the first time you'll hear that Jesus was fully man and fully God. However, your likes on my hold on to His ful manliness. You reject His Godhood. There's no way you can answer any of the questions I presented above without contradicting yourself. That's why you came up with two other questions borne of ignorance.