₦airaland Forum

achorladey:
I just saw that too. You see how they behave. When there covers are blown open. They start looking for ways to cover up. Even his brother MaxInDHouse took to his heels.

What he was running away from this thread is waiting for him on that thread. His lamenting won't end today.

Lol.

[quote author=achorladey post=131600176][/quote]Aemmyjah,

Please answer these questions: Does your former church believe that Jesus is Lord like Jehovah's Witnesses or not?


2. Do you agree that many churches scattered all over the world agree that Jesus is Lord?


These questions are meant to provide further answers to the question you've asked as seen below.?

Aemmyjah: What do you(churches) agree on?

We agree that Jesus is Lord. We agree that God raised Him from the dead. We agree that He is returning back to reign. We agree that in Christ alone is salvation.

achorladey:
He has decided to run away with his stupidity peddling brains immediately he saw my response.

See what he said below......



He did not even bother to wait for your response before running away

He quoted me on another thread where they were praising themselves. He asked me to ask all my questions there. I didn't notice he was mentioning me on a new thread until I submitted my response. The thread they created where they're saying "Jehovah Witness are Better than the Rest of Us" or something like that.

Aemmyjah:
Delicious thread

Fxmasterz
Pls direct any questions you want to ask me here or any other thread

There's those I have said I'll never reply their messages again and they keep tagging me like a malicious divorced ex-wife. So their challenges or questions will not make me yield

Okay.

I'm just curious to know what JW's stand is on the Lordship of Christ.

PCHC:
I don't think we should say anything about them, but instead say somethings to them. No human on earth has never experienced something spiritual — it's just that many do not know the spiritual things they experience every time. So it is not lack of the experience in them, but lack of the knowledge in them.

I completely agree with you.

achorladey:
I want to isolate the stupidity peddling of Aemmyjah's brain. That's why I am making it a question for him.

Should you ask him the same question. He has to either run away or deflect into other things to save face.

I want him to respond to question like this....

does his former church believe that Jesus is Lord like Jehovah's Witnesses or not?


2. Does he agree that many churches scattered all over the world agree that Jesus is Lord?


These questions are meant to provide further answers to the question Aemmyjah asked?

What do you(churches) agree on?

They agree that Jesus is Lord

Nice one.

Over to Aemmyjah.

achorladey:
That Jesus is Lord.

Do you agree or you don't with your stupidity peddling brains?


That your former taught you Jesus is Lord. Does your new found religious organization aka watchtower agree that Jesus aka Angel Michael is Lord?


Fxmasterz see him start another round of stupidity peddling

Do you really mean they don't believe that Jesus is Lord?

achorladey:
And reality says these Christian denominations agree with those within and outside as well.

Exactly, but these guys don't want to believe that. The scriptures says "Can the two walk together except they agree?". The fact that all churches walk together by fellowshiping with one another indicates that we agree. Doctrines don't divide the church. Differing viewpoints among the children in a family does not mean there's division in that family.

Aemmyjah:
Mention two candles na and tell me if they agree on beliefs and practices

What should I question the GB about? I have done all that and they passed excellently

You're only envious cos your religious leaders are nowhere to be found

What is there to envy regarding a false organization? Who envies an organization that dwells on lies and false prophesies?

Yeah, you did your research and even found out that Jesus has come as a mighty spirit King on earth since 1914. You did your research and found that only 144,000. You did your research and found out that Jesus came in 1874 as prophesied by the liars. Congratulations on your research.

Take this home. There are many candies on the lampstand in heaven. The lampstand does not have just one candle. Any organization that claims to be the only candle is the darkness!

It is myopic of you guys to be asking if churches agree among themselves. All churches are individual organizations and they agree within themselves just as JW agrees within itself as an individual organization.

Aemmyjah:
1. You speak thoughtlessly. You need to go search unity. Since you practice self Christianity, you won't know what Unity means. What should I question about my GB? I had questions about them and I found the answers and it only strengthen my trust in them just as you have questions why you should spend the rest of your life with a woman... I don't have critical negative thinking regarding them like Shimei, Korah and some others who questioned God's representative.

You don't know the difference between rebellion and making efforts to ensure that you're being thought the right things. If you cannot question your GBs on things that are clearly against the Word of God, again I say unto you, shame on you. But if you have had questions and have come to be at home with all the obvious falsehoods being peddled by these guys, then congratulations. Birds of a feather should always flock together.

2. If there's a war between Nigeria and Ghana, will the Winners members or RCCG members abstain or refuse to support cos of their members in the other country? Again, you don't know what unity means.

Why are you avoiding the main issue? We're talking about the false unity you have in your collective acceptance of false doctrines and prophecies, you're talking about wars. You and who are discussing wars in other countries?

3. Unity is a characteristic of a cult? Mention one cult na or define what a cult is and their common goals. Again you don't know what unity means.

Can you show me where I said unity is a characteristic of a cult? Do you have English comprehension at all?

4. Other churches can collabo with themselves but as for us, 'light cannot collabo with darkness '

That's the problem. There's no standalone light in the body of Christ. There are many Candles on the lampstand in heaven . Any organization that claims to be the only candle is the darkness and not the light.

Aemmyjah:
So what these other simpletons are saying is true or false?

I don't just trust them for no reason

Trust is like money

It has to be earned
For them to have my trust shows I can follow their directions

I trust my parents, friends

The GB provides directions as to spiritual and theocratic matters and we trust them
The results is peace and unity of mind amongst Jehovah's Witnesses all over the world
Mention any other organizations whether religious, social, political or commercial that has achieved anything close.

Shane on you and your envious lots

1. Your unity is based on an unanimous decision to depend on your GBs whether they're telling you lies or telling you the truth. This is a dangerous form of unity which is very, very fatal. There's no such type of this unity in the body of Christ - a united decision to embrace both falsehood and truth. Paul questioned Peter. If none of you can question your GBs, shame on you.

2. JW is organically like any other organization in the world - including Church organizations. Like JW, there's unity within Winners Chapel as an organization. There's unity within RCCG as an organization. There's unity within Deeper life, etc as individual organizations. The only problem is that these individual organizations relate with one another as being members of the same body of Christ whereas JW isolates itself. So, the unity is fake. The Individualized unity of a so called Church organization is fake if it is a Standalone Unity. They avoid checks and balances by fellow individualized organizations and arrogate to themselves some supreme knowledge leading them into many errors without checks. This is another dangerous side to the fake unity of the JW. It is like robbers united in crime and boasting of being united since robbers have no Robbers Union where they enjoy caution and checks by other robbery groups. When Paul wrote to Colosse, he instructed that they should read the letters he sent to the Corinthians and that the Corinthians should read the letters he sent to Colosse. There's cohesion and an interaction among the Churches. If an organization stays aloof and interacts with no other church, it is not a member of the body of Christ. There's no perfect Church, and there would be no perfect Church until Jesus comes. The Church of Christ is the organization of imperfect Churches united as one. If JW distances itself citing imperfections, it is a false alibi because JW itself is grossly imperfect. Shame on you for being imperfect while distancing yourselves from others for their alleged imperfections.

3. All cults are more united than the JWs. Criminals have to unite to avoid being busted. Your false unity is nothing to boast about.

4. Individual Church organizations are united just like the individual JW organization. However, these Church organizations work cohesively with fellow Churches with whom they serve the same Master. This unity comes with a lot of freedom for the members within each Church organization. A more transparent and godly system of truth and doctrine does not make any Church leader an overlord over the members. Hence each member can study the Word for themselves, rob minds with leaders, question perceived falsehoods and take responsibility for his own soul - the members of the JW are robbed of this kind of freedom in the name of some false unity. No member is allowed to take responsibility for his soul. This sets a dangerous precedence for a harrowing time in eternity because you allowed other men to take the position of God in your life with regards to the matters of your soul. Shame on you.

Aemmyjah:
Where is it written that the GB can give us salvation
Only faith in God and Jesus Christ is our means of salvation

I never said you or your GBs made any such claims. The scripture I quoted is not about who gives you salvation. Instead it's about you trusting a fellow human being unquestionably with regards to the matters of your soul.

Courz:
Gbam. Trust us completely even though we are taking you to Hell, the same place they are going.

Exactly.

As far as this issue is concerned, it is everyone to himself. On the day of judgement, everyone will stand individually to answer to God. Nobody would be responsible for anybody. Even the GBs would stand individually before God too - standing in fear of their lives and forgetting all the gullible fellows they led astray in their lifetimes.

achorladey:
It does not exist in their Bible. Or they have to redefine it to suit their ideology

You can see him struggling to defend what cannot be defended.

He even use his own fingers to type that Jehovah and Jesus don't have one line of thought

Lol.

Only devils can type out the bolded.

achorladey:
But when Aemmyjah and Janosky shows up don't trust them completely, trust them to some reasonable degree.

That lying and manipulating brains response to me don't know he has just said, Jehovah, Jesus trust Losch completely to do the work given absolutely, Jehovah and Jesus even Losch don't trust MaxInDHouse to carry out the work given.

Community of double standards.

Meanwhile the scriptures say:

Philippians 2:12
"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION with fear and trembling."

The Scripture above emphasizes the need for everyone to personally work out his own salvation. No human being can be responsible for anybody's salvation. Hence you cannot entrust the salvation of your soul into anyone's hand. You cannot trust anybody in this regard. You must work out your own salvation by yourself without allowing anybody to lead you astray. There's the need for you to personally verify messages, revelations, new lights and new doctrines. Trust nobody for your salvation. Trust God only.

achorladey:
What is the difference between the trust use here....



and



cc: Emusan, FxMasterz, Oteneaaron, Courz, MightySparrow

I don't understand. Please help!!!!!

Trust without asking questions. Trust the GB the same way you trust God.. Accept anything they say with no questions asked while they drag your soul to hell with many UNTRUTHS that later become past darkness in the presence of New Lights.

[quote author=Youareforgiven post=131575857][/quote]Acts 10:8-10
"But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[d] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. "

Any doctrine apart from the bolded is not of God. Salvation is as simple as that. This is what the Lord Jesus Himself preached. Salvation is simply by faith. The thief on the cross got saved this way. He didn't speak in tongues, yet Christ promised him paradise.

Are you aware that the Roman Catholics peddled many false doctrines that later saw the baptism of the Holy Ghost become a rare phenomenon among Christians. This Baptism of the Holy Ghost is a revived truth God re-introduced into the Church in the early 1900s. Before then, believers never spoke in tongues. They were never never baptized in the Holy Ghost.

Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, William Booth, A W. Tozer, Watchman Nee, J B. Stoney, Charles Spurgeon and all the great men whose lives are still a blessing to us today were never baptized in the Holy Ghost. They were born again. They were saved. They won many souls to Christ. But they never experienced Holy Ghost baptism. This knowledge was shut off from them in their days. The knowledge of the Holy Ghost baptism resurfaced only in the early 1900s. Till today, many born again Christians still do not believe that the doctrine of the Holt Spirit baptism is scriptural.

Now, tell me, the men that I just listed above for you, you may or may not know all of them but I'm sure you might know many of them; were they saved? Or are you telling me that they were not saved because they were not baptized in the Holy Ghost?

Pastor Kumuyi of Deeper Life became born again in 1964 but received Holy Spirit baptism in 1970.

Youareforgiven:
By the grace of God and my Lord Jesus Christ I preach not my own wisdom but the wisdom of God in Christ Jesus. There is no double coming of the Holy Spirit. The one you call the second coming is the authentic one. You got saved when you received the Holy Spirit. I preach the gospel of our salvation. ✝ Jeremiah 8:11

"For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace."

KJV Bible
Many have been deceived that there is peace where there is no peace. Of what use is false hope?... I am not making anyone doubt their salvation. Wrong message is stealing the salvation Jesus Christ died to give them. What shall it profit you if you think you are save and on the our Lord Jesus Christ will return for His bride and they will be found not worthy.... Do you want people to be like the foolish virgins who forgot to take oil for their lamp... Matthew 25:1-13.

This is absolutely wrong doctrine. Very contrary to scripture. Please this isn't the Wisdom of God but head knowledge. To be saved, this is all one has to do according to the Scriptures:

"But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

1. This is how the disciples got saved.
2. This is how the Ethiopian Eunuch got saved.
3. This is how the Samaritans in Acts 8 got saved
4. This is how jarius and his household got saved:

'And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here. Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.'

Jarius and his household were only Baptized in water. They never were baptized in the Holy Ghost. They were saved. Salvation is a simple experience that comes by FAITH.

Thousands are under false hope that they have the Spirit of God why, they have Him not. False doctrines like the one you are trying every means to uphold is the reason. Thousands gathering in this beautiful cathedral don't even know if there is anything called Holy Spirit like the disciples apostle Paul met in Acts 19:2 but you people covers it up with double coming, thereby making them feel save in the face of real danger.

I am doing what Apostle Paul did in Acts 19, directing them where they will get the Holy Spirit. Directing them to the true gospel where they will eventually get the Oil for their lamp.

This is absolutely heretic. Anyone who has confessed Jesus as Lord is saved.

By your assertion, you're actually saying the Ethiopian Eunuch was not saved:

Acts 836-39
"The eunuch asked Philip, “Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?” 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus. As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing."

Philip was an Evangelist. By his calling, he could only preach. He couldn't get anyone baptized in the Holy Ghost. Peter and John were the ones who got people baptized in the Spirit. What is the function of an Evangelist if people don't get saved at his preaching? All those who came to Christ through his ministry are lost except Peter and John Lay hands on them? No!

In Acts 19, several people who practiced occultism got saved without being baptized in the Holy Ghost. The salvation experience is the new birth experience. The Baptism experience is the Gift of power.

Show me someone who got saved in scripture only after being baptized in the Holy Ghost. I mean someone who was declared saved ONLY after he was baptized in the Holy Ghost. Or any scripture that says you must be baptized in the Holy Ghost to be saved. Of course, there's none.

Even in Acts 10, Peter wanted to preach only Salvation to the house of Cornelius. He didn't count them worthy of Holy Ghost baptism. Only salvation. God had to bypass Peter and baptize those people with the Holy Ghost. When Peter saw that, he said "Can anyone forbid these people water? They have been Baptized (Not Saved) just as we were."

The Baptism of the Holy Ghost is never confused for salvation. Read below:

Acts 10:44-48
"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT HAD BEEN POURED UPON THE GENTILES (they weren't astonished that the gentiles were saved because that is not what the baptism represents) For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. THEY HAVE RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT JUST AS WE HAVE (Peter didn't say they have been saved because the baptism of the Holy Spirit does not represent salvation. Their salvation already happened when they believed Peter's gospel in their hearts).” if the baptism of the Holy Ghost is the same as salvation, we would see it clearly in scriptures. Infact Peter would say "They have been saved just as we were". This would have been the most appropriate statement if the Baptism of the Holy Ghost equals salvation.

What about the 3,000 Peter preached to in Acts 2:41:

"So then, those who accepted his message were baptized (in water); and on that day about 3,000 souls were added [to the body of believers."

The body of Believers is the body of saved souls.

I'll like you to read Acts 15 and see what the Church stated in that chapter regarding the salvation of the gentiles. The baptism of the Holy Ghost was not a prerequisite at all. It was not even considered.

If the baptism of the Holy Ghost = salvation, then God would give every preacher the power to baptize everyone they preach to. But God didn't do that because salvation is simply by faith. Confess the Lord Jesus with your mouth, believe He rose from the dead for your justification, then, the peace of God would flood your heart. Your heart will rejoice. You're saved by the grace of God through Faith in Christ Jesus. This is the PURE and authentic doctrine of the Bible.

Haven't you read in Acts 4 that the Disciples even had another time they were filled with the Holy Ghost after the Acts 2 experience?

Acts 4:31
"After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. AND THEY WERE ALL FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT and spoke the word of God boldly."

Youareforgiven:
How are they save? They were still in sin. The passover Lamb hasn't been slayed. They had sure hope for salvation because the Lamb is going to the slaughter house. Let me ask you, was Judas Iscariot saved?

Now, the answer is yes. Since Romans 8:9 says "Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him."
The disciples has not the Holy Spirit In. The Spirit of God normally comes upon people in the old testament but not living in them.

That means they already had the Spirit of Christ or else they actually don't belong to Him until Acts 2. You and I know that this is false. The disciples belong to Jesus before Pentecost. Even Jesus said: They don't belong to Him until Acts 2 when the Holy Spirit came upon them and never returned.
✝ Romans 5:5

"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us."

KJV Bible
Jesus calls things that be not as though they were to make them be. Prophecy.


John 17:9
"My prayer is not for the world, but for those you have given me, because they belong to you. ... those whom Thou hast given to me, because they are yours."
Prophecy of what is about to happen.

The seal of salvation is immediate. You get the seal immediately you accept Jesus into your life as your Lord and Savior. The Holy Spirit is that Seal. The empowerment follows anytime thereafter. The Holy Spirit is that Empowerment too. It's not a matter of how many times the Holy Ghost comes to a person but a matter of how many things He does to a person: The seal and empowerment is immediate if you believe right, but there was an exception in Samaria. But when the Seal finally came they knew He has come.

1. First thing, He seals. Gives you the Life of God. Reborns your spirit.

2. Second thing, empowers you for a victorious life on earth. both happens once

He first begets, then empowers.



No. That's erroneous.

Let's hear from the Bible.

Was the Spirit of God dwelling in the Old Prophets? In first Peter 1:11, the prophets of old were said to be "searching what, or what manner of time the SPIRIT of CHRIST WHICH WAS IN THEM did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." come no know crux of the matter here. The Spirit of possesesing them for a short time to achieve a thing, Is not what we are talking about. God can inhabit anyone to achieve His aim but that doesn't mean the person is saved without the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

The Spirit of Christ was in the prophets of the Old Testament. Temporarily for a purpose.

At salvation, everyone receives the Seal of the Spirit of God upon his/her spirit. True

I think you should go over the book of Acts from cover to cover again to see how these things are fully demonstrated in the book.

Romans 8:9
"Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him."

This scripture above is talking about the Spirit of Christ that comes to you at salvation, and not the Spirit of Christ that comes Upon you at the Baptism.
There is no two coming of the Holy Spirit please... Coming of the Holy Spirit is once and if you have it, you will know. Paul asked those disciples because he knows that everyone who has the Spirit of God ought to know.

Let's not argue unnecessarily. There was no exception in Samaria. The Samaria experience has been the experience of all believers through the ages. You first get saved, after this, the empowerment. You must first be born before you can be empowered. God cannot empower someone who has not been born. And actually, He doesn't. Britt first. Then empowerment.

This type of doctrine you're pushing could easily make people doubt their salvation and therefore backslide. It isn't biblical at al. This is because when you become born again,you become born again by faith. You won't see any special activity except a gradual change in your life. You start hating sin. You start loving the Word of God. You start enjoying the fellowship of brethren. The desire to serve God starts to burn in your heart. You even want to tell others about Jesus.

When you receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost, it comes with all evidence. You feel sensations. You speak in tongues. You know something has happened to you. You don't know you've received the Holy Ghost by faith because the physics evidences and manifestations are always there. Just like Pentecost. You don't need to be told that you've received the Holy Ghost. You know yourself. But at salvation, you need to be reassured. Satan comes to deceive you and make you backslide. You need the assurance of matured believers. Then you keep growing and the change in your manifests with time. For the baptism, you get the evidence immediately. No need to be assured.

For example, my dad was a Muslim. He started attending church. Left Christianity too and became a free thinker. He later became born again. Buried his free thinking. Started attending church. Overcame alcoholism. Started witnessing for Christ. Became extremely Zealous for the Gospel. One year later, he received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost after being prayer for in a fellowship. The experience transformed his Christian life. He died as an Evangelist to the glory of God.

1. The evidence of salvation is a changed life.

2. The evidence of Holy Spirit baptism is the speaking of new tongues.

Both are done by the same Holy Spirit.

One of my pastors had been a pastor for years. He was a sound teacher of the Word. Won many souls for Christ and lived a very holy life. Till today, he is one of my most respected man of God. I actually married his daughter. He was the type of Christian who believed that you receive Holy Spirit baptism at salvation. The moment you're saved, you already have the baptism. That was the doctrine he knew and held on to. But after many years of serving the Lord, one day, he received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost in his sleep. He just started speaking in tongues in bed. He never asked for it because he believed that tongues passed away with the apostles. The old man still speaks in tongues but does not understand much about that phenomenon. I worshipped in his church for 5 years and during that time, he never preached a single message about Holy Ghost baptism. And I'm sure he doesn't teach it til today.

Meanwhile, I teach this things. I got baptized in the Holy Ghost in 2000 after I gave my life to Christ in 1999. I have made altar calls for Holy Ghost baptism on countless occasions. "If you're saved. You've given your life to Christ but you do not have the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of Speaking in tongues, come forward." People come forward, I lay hands on them like Peter and John did to the Samaritans. Like Paul did in Acts 9 and they start receiving the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues. My youngest sister came to live with my family in 2014. I preached the gospel to her and she gave her life to Christ. Few days later, I taught her about the baptism of the Holy Ghost. After the teaching I asked her "Do you want the gift of the Holy Ghost?" She answer yes. I laid hands on her in the guest room which my wife gave her as her room. She received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost in the guest room and began to speak in tongues.

My son for example is born again. He even has a WhatsApp group where he teaches the word of God to people. He has a burning zeal to see people saved but he is not yet baptized in the Holy Spirit. They're not currently with me in my location. So, I told my wife I've got to visit the children and get them all baptized in the Holy Ghost. This is absolutely in line with scripture. People don't speak in tongues when they get saved. They speak in tongues when they're baptized in the Holy Ghost.

This is the practical things we see God do in the world. And this is practically what we see God do in the Scriptures.

Youareforgiven:
[/b]
No one is born again without the Holy Spirit. How can the Spirit of God dwell in them when Jesus has not died for our sins. Don't you know it is because we are righteous in Jesus that is why the Holy Ghost can live in us. The Spirit came to them at Pentecost both baptism and indwelling them. truly, I don't understand you here..

To understand, let me ask you a question. Before they had that Pentecost experience, did they belong to Christ?

Now, the answer is yes. Since Romans 8:9 says "Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him."

That means they already had the Spirit of Christ or else they actually don't belong to Him until Acts 2. You and I know that this is false. The disciples belong to Jesus before Pentecost. Even Jesus said:

John 17:9
"My prayer is not for the world, but for those you have given me, because they belong to you. ... those whom Thou hast given to me, because they are yours."

The seal of salvation is immediate. You get the seal immediately you accept Jesus into your life as your Lord and Savior. The Holy Spirit is that Seal. The empowerment follows anytime thereafter. The Holy Spirit is that Empowerment too. It's not a matter of how many times the Holy Ghost comes to a person but a matter of how many things He does to a person:

1. First thing, He seals. Gives you the Life of God. Reborns your spirit.

2. Second thing, empowers you for a victorious life on earth.

He first begets, then empowers.

The Spirit comes WITHIN you at salvation (Born Again), and comes UPON you (Cloven tongues as of fire sat UPON them not INSIDE them) when you're Baptized (immersed) in the Holy Ghost. Baptism itself means to be IMMERSED. You don't get immersed into something that is put INSIDE you. To be immersed, you would be put inside something.


Jesus blowing on them was a prophetic action. Not the actual Baptism. No one received the Holy Ghost when Jesus blew on them. It was just the demonstration of a future event. That prophetic action was for all generations of Christians who would come into the world, including Thomas who was absent. The first fulfilment of that prophetic action came about on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2.



Being born again is the first introduction into the family of God by the Spirit of God.

First event: You are born by the Spirit. The Spirit of God revives your spirit and prepares you for the Baptism.

2. In the second event, you're already born again just as the disciples were already born again before Acts 2. The Samaritans were already born again through Philip's preaching before the coming of Peter and John to lay hands on them in Acts 8. I was already born again before I received the Baptism of the Hoot Ghost in the year 2000. My friend was already born again before he received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost in 1999.

If the Spirit of God is not already WITHIN you through the Born again experience, you cannot have Him come UPON you sitting on you as Cloven tongues of fire. You don't speak in tongues when you get Born Again but you have a new life by the Spirit of God. The law of God is now written in your heart at this point.

You speak in tongues when you're baptized (immersed) in the Holy Ghost. You bubble out new tongues as a result of the IMMERSION (Baptism]. You're now empowered to live the law of God which was already written in your heart when you became Born Again.

There is no first and second experience... The Spirit of God cannot dwell in man before the cleansing from sin. Jesus Christ was the sacrifice that will usher in the reign of the Holy Ghost in us. How can the disciples possess Him?

No. That's erroneous.

Let's hear from the Bible.

Was the Spirit of God dwelling in the Old Prophets? In first Peter 1:11, the prophets of old were said to be "searching what, or what manner of time the SPIRIT of CHRIST WHICH WAS IN THEM did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

The Spirit of Christ was in the prophets of the Old Testament.

At salvation, everyone receives the Seal of the Spirit of God upon his/her spirit.

I think you should go over the book of Acts from cover to cover again to see how these things are fully demonstrated in the book.

Romans 8:9
"Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him."

This scripture above is talking about the Spirit of Christ that comes to you at salvation, and not the Spirit of Christ that comes Upon you at the Baptism.

Emusan:
That question will continue to cause severe and eternal pains in their heart.

because they can't boldly answer, Yes/No! But will quickly say, "well, Jehovah knows the best"

So, if Jehovah knows the best, why changing from the Darkness doctrine to New Light in the first place?

If the fate of those who died in your false light is not known, how are you sure you know what will happen to those who are not Jws as well? because there's no different between the two.

So much on that but only a few can reason towards that angle.

New Light automatically makes the previous lights Past Darkness. This means the previous members who died with that previous light actually died in darkness. There's no guarantee that the current gullible ones won't die in darkness as the New Lights of today could become past darkness tomorrow after they're long dead. JW members are in trouble.

Jehovah Knows best and therefore does not misguide His people. If the GBs are claiming to be hearing directly from Jehovah through His Spirit, and what they hear today turns to past darkness tomorrow, then, they're not hearing from the true Jehovah.

achorladey:
When the Pope tells Rutherford that....

Since Jehovah and Jesus completely trust the Pope should we not do the same? So who do you trust? You fully trust Jehovah, Jesus and faithful and Pope.

Will Rutherford in his mind ever say the Pope is saying the truth and that's why he accept the Roman Catholic as God's organization?


When the shoe is on the other foot. They always run away.

?

FEW people today have a deep, abiding trust in Jehovah God. Some do not even believe that he exists. Others may acknowledge God’s existence, but they pay little attention to his will. Even those who are devout in this world’s religions trust mostly in their religious traditions or in their clergymen, not in Jehovah. They are much like those of whom the apostle Paul said: “I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God; but not according to accurate knowledge; for, because of not knowing the righteousness of God but seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.”​—Rom. 10:2, 3.

2 Regarding the future of the human family, in whom do people trust to bring about better conditions? Most of them put their trust in human efforts, not in Jehovah’s purpose for mankind. Only a tiny minority of earth’s four billion inhabitants have carefully examined the evidence of Jehovah’s existence, have accepted their responsibilities toward him, and live their lives in obedience to his laws. These persons trust him completely, knowing that he will fulfill his promise of establishing a righteous new order for mankind. They declare, as did the ancient psalmist: “In you I have put my trust, O Jehovah. I have said: ‘You are my God.’” (Ps. 31:14) And they heed God’s warning: “Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.”​—Ps. 146:3.

While they enforced this trust on the gullible members, they taught them many UNTRUTHS which many of the gullible folks have died with since the inception of the cult, only for the cult to make a U-turn and bring a supposed NEW LIGHT without any remorse or apology for the previous falsehoods.

Youareforgiven:
Coming of the Holy Spirit was in Acts 2:1-4.
✝ Hebrews 10:16

"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;"

1. Acts 2 represents the the fulfilment of the Promise of the Holy Ghost which Christ talked about in Acts 1 :8. Peter explained that it is the awaited promise of Joel 2. This is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost given to people who are already born again. The Born again experience itself is the Work of the Holy Ghost in which case the Spirit of God comes to dwell within you and reborn your spirit. You become born again - born of the Spirit. This is the first operation of the Holy Ghost in your life. All those in the upper room already had the Born Again experience. Then, in the upper room, they had a SECOND EXPERIENCE - the baptismal experience.

2. Please separate the coming of the Holy Ghost from the New Covenant. The Baptism of the Holy Ghost is part of the new dispensation - the New Testament but it is not to be confused as The Law written in our hearts. The Law being written in our hearts symbolizes a life of the Spirit into which we have now being called which is enabled by the Born Again experience.

KJV Bible. ✝ Jeremiah 31:33✝ Acts 2:3

"And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them."

KJV Bible


"But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."

KJV Bible

"And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh: "

KJV Bible

"And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

The Spirit comes WITHIN you at salvation (Born Again), and comes UPON you (Cloven tongues as of fire sat UPON them not INSIDE them) when you're Baptized (immersed) in the Holy Ghost. Baptism itself means to be IMMERSED. You don't get immersed into something that is put INSIDE you. To be immersed, you would be put inside something.

KJV Bible

The Shavuot, in Greek, it is called Pentecost: It is a Jewish celebration of giving of the Torah(The Law of God).
.. it was only fitting for the Spirit of God to be giving this day. God has promised to write his laws in our heart and mind through his Spirit in us. On this day the law was given on Mount Sinai which is a prototype of the real deal, which is, the law given in our heart by the Spirit of God in us. Those who has the Spirit of God will never struggle to love, because love is the fulfillment of the law of God.

Those who has the Holy Spirit will find themselves doing somethings they thought they are incapable of doing before unconsciously. For instance, if you are hot tempered, you will find your self being less angry on things that normally makes you angry before without even giving it a thought. That is what God was saying, that he will write his laws in our heart through his Spirit in us. So the Holy Spirit cannot come a day before Shavuot/Pentecost. It is impossible. The scripture must be fulfilled. So John 20:22 is a PROLEPSIS where Jesus is speaking of something as though it was already present. ✝ Romans 4:17

"(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were."

KJV Bible

Jesus cannot give them the Holy Ghost before the Pentecost or Shavuot, it will be breaking the scripture. Jesus said it himself that except he goes away the Spirit of God wont come. ✝ John 16:7

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

KJV Bible

it is only when Jesus depart and is glorified, he will send his sweet, precious magnificent, aromatic Spirit to us. Glory to Jesus Christ now and forever. Amen. ✝ John 7:39

"(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"

KJV Bible

Logically, it doesn't make sense that Jesus gave them his Spirit without Thomas "the until I see crooner." Because there was no where else we are made to read that he blew another Holy Ghost on Thomas. Was Thomas now excluded on the huge blessing of receiving the Holy Spirit? So, people loved by God beware of the doctrine of Pharisee. Little things like this makes a great deal of difference in our believe and ultimately in our salvation. So many have been made to believe that they have the Holy Spirit, why they have not. And why do they have not? Because they have not truly believe the right message. What is the right message? The message is this, in Jesus Christ you have been forgiven of all your sins and you are made right with God. This is the ABC of the Gospel. This should be your conviction. Hold on to this irreversible truth in your heart and mind and see, if you will not be hit like a volcano by the rushing sweet precious Spirit of Jesus Christ. You will experience it and you will come and talk about it. It will be a new beginning.... A whole new experience. The law of God which is love will be written in your heart and mind. You will begin to experience yourself doing the will of God unconsciously, without even you knowing or thinking of it. You will start acting like your Father in Heaven. This is what Jesus meant when he said, "We all must be begotten by the Spirit. ✝ John 3:5

Jesus blowing on them was a prophetic action. Not the actual Baptism. No one received the Holy Ghost when Jesus blew on them. It was just the demonstration of a future event. That prophetic action was for all generations of Christians who would come into the world, including Thomas who was absent. The first fulfilment of that prophetic action came about on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2.

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

KJV Bible
The coming kingdom which has already begun is for those who has the Spirit of God within them because they will be able to live, love and behave like God. They will be able love one another because the Spirit of God is in them. Their Father's attitude will be there attitude. Just as Lion do not struggle to roar they will not struggle to love.
just as a goat do not struggle to bleat, they will not struggle to love.
Just as the old self do not struggle to sin... our new self in the Spirit will not struggle to live righteously forever. People loved by God this is the whole plan of God, and you can be part of it today.

Being born again is the first introduction into the family of God by the Spirit of God.

First event: You are born by the Spirit. The Spirit of God revives your spirit and prepares you for the Baptism.

2. In the second event, you're already born again just as the disciples were already born again before Acts 2. The Samaritans were already born again through Philip's preaching before the coming of Peter and John to lay hands on them in Acts 8. I was already born again before I received the Baptism of the Hoot Ghost in the year 2000. My friend was already born again before he received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost in 1999.

If the Spirit of God is not already WITHIN you through the Born again experience, you cannot have Him come UPON you sitting on you as Cloven tongues of fire. You don't speak in tongues when you get Born Again but you have a new life by the Spirit of God. The law of God is now written in your heart at this point.

You speak in tongues when you're baptized (immersed) in the Holy Ghost. You bubble out new tongues as a result of the IMMERSION (Baptism]. You're now empowered to live the law of God which was already written in your heart when you became Born Again.

Qasim6:
And you think an Arab is not likely to know the meaning of Messiah?

Do you realise Hebrew and Arabic are somehow similar?

Messiah simply means anointed in both languages.

What you can argue is Jesus mission as a Messiah is to save. Messiah does not mean anointed to save.

Hebrew and Arabic have a common root, the reason why you will find some of their words to be similar.

Shalom - Salam - peace
Ebed - Abd - Slave/Servant
Elah - Allah - God
Messiah - Masih - anointed

A Muslim like you on this platform once told me Messiah has a different meaning in Islam. That's exactly the way he put it.

bloodofthelamb:
I will tag you in a new thread... Where I answered the question through the leading of the Spirit of God. I also pray for understanding for us all in Jesus Christ name

Okay, the Holy Spirit will give us answers of peace in Jesus name.

achorladey:
So you dey this thread

I dey o my brother. I've been busy all day though. Just coming online to see another beautiful thread you created about those end time Pharisees.

Qasim6:
And you think an Arab is not likely to know the meaning of Messiah?

Do you realise Hebrew and Arabic are somehow similar?

Messiah simply means anointed in both languages.

What you can argue is Jesus mission as a Messiah is to save. Messiah does not mean anointed to save.

Hebrew and Arabic have a common root, the reason why you will find some of their words to be similar.

Shalom - Salam - peace
Ebed - Abd - Slave/Servant
Elah - Allah - God
Messiah - Masih - anointed

Even the name 'Jesus' means God is Salvation. The anointing is always for a purpose. The Anointing One to Save is the Messiah.

One of your fellow Muslims here once told me that Messiah means something different in Islam after we disputed about it sometimes ago. You know, you Muslims would deny and lie if you see that you're cornered. Probably, that's what your brother did. Now, you're telling me it means the same thing.

Dsimmer:
Of course, there's no way the Messiah name is Isa.

Mohammad just muddled up everything in Quran, even as the Jewish history had nothing to do with him to begin with, considering Jacob and Jacob descendants are not Mohammad's ancestors. But since he had nothing to write about the exploits of his Arab ancestors, he had to write the Jewish history but then, why muddle up the names and events of the Jewish history? Meanwhile, There's no even the sequence of events in Quran. It's just too muddled up. Not to mention the nonsense 72 virgins and the fact that he's a pedophile.

Anyways, there's no way the name of the Messiah is Isa.

It's stated that the Messiah shall bear the name of God. The Hebrew names for God is Yahweh and El (Elyon, Elohim, Eloah/Elowah). That's why Jacob's names are Yacob (Jacob) and Isra-el. It was also stated that Jacob and Jacob's descendants shall bear the name. Hence,

Yehudah/Yacob (Judea/Jacob) = Israel.

I don't know why Muslims can't see all the flaws. The man muddled up Jewish history so much that he stated that Mariam the sister of Aaron was Jesus' mother. He thought Mariam and Mary were the same person, not knowing that Mariam lived more than 3000 yrs before Mary begat Jesus. Muslims see this error and look away and still hold on to the false book as the true Word of God by a supposed angel.

Qasim6:
"A word you did not create?"
What is that supposed to mean?

And what is the correct meaning of Messiah?

The One who is anointed to save.

bloodofthelamb:
[b][/b]. Thanks for caring but I have received the Holy Spirit with all he has to offer.
His wisdom
His understanding
His knowledge
His power
His might
His counsel
And fear of the Lord. Glory to God and to Jesus Christ who made it possible now and forever. Amen.

Think about it this way, when the Lord Jesus was with His disciples, were they saved? Didn't they have the Holy Spirit? Didn't they perform miracles? Were they not children of God?

Why then did the Lord Jesus say to them,

John 20:22,

"When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: RECEIVE YE THE HOLY GHOST ."

Are you now getting it? Why then did the Lord Jesus say again to them after this John 22 event

"Tarry ye in Jerusalem until ye be endued with power from on high... And ye shall receive power after the Holy Ghost has come upon you"

See, the Holy Ghost must come UPON you. After already coming WITHIN you. At salvation, the Holy Ghost comes WITHIN you. When you're baptized in the Holy Ghost, He comes UPON you.

The Acts 2 experience is a must for every believer who wants to walk in the Power of God.

Go and read Acts 2 please and take note of 2 important verses:

Verse 15: "... In the LAST DAYS, I will pour out MY SPIRIT UPON all flesh....."

Verse 38: "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive THE GIFT of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

Two important Gifts you must receive: 1. The gift of Salvation and 2. The Gift of the Holy Ghost.

Let me add another Scripture here. Saul encountered the Lord Jesus on his way to Damascus. He repented and began to seek the face of God in prayer. Then the Lord Jesus spoke to Ananias about Paul, asking him to go and pray for him.

Acts 9:17-18
"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, BROTHER SAUL, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, AND BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, AND AROSE, AND WAS BAPTIZED."

Regarding your use of the 'quote', I observed that you quoted a whole page instead of segmenting according to the sections you intend to respond to. See my example below:

So this is my first example

Now, I'll go to the next segment and quote another section.

This is my second example. I've quoted another segment of the page.

Now I can respond again to what I quoted above.

See the screenshot below to see what gave me the above results. You can quote as many segments of a post as you want.

God gives us His Life at salvation, and then gives us HIS POWER when we get baptized in the Holy Ghost.

bloodofthelamb:
Pls can you teach me how to quote you line by line. I tried it before but I messed everything up.... Let's us rob the mind of in Christ together.... I have a lot to respond and I pray the for the understanding of the Spirit of God to prevail.

Amen.

To quote a line you do it this way:

You put the word 'quote' in parenthesis at the beginning and at the end of the word, sentence or paragraph you want to quote. For example:

This is how to quote a word, sentence or paragraph on Nairaland. Start with the word 'quote' in parenthesis as seen at the begining of this paragraph, then end it with a forward slash and parenthesis as seen at the end of this paragraphs

Above is the result of my example after I did as you can see in the attached screenshot.

bloodofthelamb:
Being a disciple does not make one a believer.
✝ Matthew 7:21

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
✝ John 6:64

"But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him."

Followers doesn't always mean you have believers. Moreover believing in the wrong message is as bad, as not believing at all.

I'm sorry, this is heresy. Absolutely anti-scripture. Those who call Him Lord, Lord are not necessarily disciples. A disciple is someone who follows and obey. This is the Biblical standard. Wherever you see Believer or Disciple in the Bible, it's not talking about those shouting Lord, Lord please.

Those who Philip preached to became saved after Philip preached to them.

*They were not saved. Through salvation comes with the Spirit of God. ✝ John 3:5*

Seems you're contradicting yourself. I don't get your point in saying "They became saved when Philip preached to them" and again, "They were not saved."

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

KJV Bible
✝ Zechariah 4:6

"Then he answered and spoke unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts."

KJV ✝ Ephesians 1:13

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,"

KJV Bible

Without the seal which is the adorable Spirit of Christ, the believer is not saved. On the last day, many will say, "Lord we believed in you, why are we being rejected but the Lord will say to them depart from me, for if you believe in me my Spirit would have been in you." The problem is not believing but what you are believing.

The seal actually comes immediately someone confesses Jesus as Lord. The moment the thief on Christ's right hand on the cross said "Lord, remember me..." He had that seal of salvation. The baptism is for power. Not for salvation. Holy Spirit baptism cones only after salvation.

Romans 10:9 is the simple truth about salvation.

"[b[If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."[/b]

At the point of confessing and believing, the Spirit of God revives your dead Spirit. You become born again. You now have the life of God.

Jesus was speaking to believers here:

Acts 1:8

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you"

In the above scripture, Jesus was speaking to Believers who had the Spirit of God in them but had not experienced the Baptism of Power. The power came in Acts 2. You might want to go and study that chapter. Those who received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 were only Disciples - Believers in Christ.

Acts 8:12
"But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, "

Baptism has nothing to do with salvation but a symbol of the real deal, that is, the baptism of the Holy Spirit or receiving of the Holy Ghost.

Water Baptism means to die with Christ and to resurrect with Christ. The person baptized is identifying with the death and resurrection of Jesus. It's mean for only those who are born again.

They were saved. They gave their lives to Christ.
We didn't give our life to him. He gave his life to us instead. We're just called to believe he did it. Simple

He actually didn't give His life to us. Rather He gave His Life FOR us. "The Righteous for the unrighteous, that we might be saved." We give out lives to Him as a mark of dedication and acknowledgement of His Lordship over us.

After this, see what happened next:

Acts 8:14-17

"When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Baptizing any anyone is just a symbol. Believing is the real deal, but it most be confirmed and sealed by the receiving of the Holy Spirit.Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." This is the confirmation that they believed the right message.

As I said earlier:

1. Believers receive the Holy Ghost as a seal of salvation the moment they confess the Lordship of Christ and believe He was raised for their salvation.

2. After this follows the EMPLOYMENT which is the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of Speaking in tongues.

In Acts 19, those people for whom Paul prayed were also believers. That's why Paul asked "Have you received the Holy Ghost since ye Believed?. Paul knew that it is one thing to be a Believer, it is another thing to be baptized in the Holy Ghost, hence, the question.. Not everyone who confesses Jesus Christ believes the message of the gospel. Not everyone one who preaches Christ and defend in arguments about Jesus here in Nairaland, actually believes the message of salvation.

Don't tell me Paul didn't know who the believers are. Don't tell me Paul laid hands on the non believers. The Bible says he laid hands on Believers.

Read also Acts 10 to see a similar scenario in the house of Cornelius.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is different from the salvation experience. In both cases the Holy Spirit comes into you:
It is not different brother. It is the same and it happens once and you will no that something has happened.

1. At salvation, He comes as the Spirit of Life to impart you with the Life of God to live a new life in Christ. True, but it is once and He also come with all package including power.

2. At the Holy Ghost baptism, He comes as the Spirit of Power to fill you with the Power of God to live a victorious life as a Christian in this perverse world.



True as well, but it is once and He comes with all package... Life, wisdom, knowledge, understand, might, power and of the fear of the Lord. There is no double coming of the Holy Spirit into man.

Please if you've not received the EMPOWERMENT, go for it. Read Acts Chapter 1 - 2, let the Holy Spirit teach you Himself.