₦airaland Forum

jaephoenix:
So the creator here isn't Jesus/Yahweh?

Discussions should be stage by stage. I'm not discussing any Creator here. I'm discussing the existence of a Creator only.

jaephoenix:
May you be fvcked

Trash!

Is that the only thing you have in that your head?

achorladey:
Don't allow him to derail the fact he mentioned you and failed the challenge

Thank you bro.

achorladey:
No be today we sabi how he goes about blackmailing people with his lies and manipulations.

So, he is very famous for this kind of thing? A very famous blackmailer?

MaxInDHouse:
Did you MALICIOUSLY LIED against someone on Nairaland?

Did you maliciously blackmail me on Nairaland? Did someone first lie against me maliciously on Nairaland? Did I apologize to the said person?

jaephoenix:
Oh, I have. I have rebuffed your concept of 'intelligent design' with 2 points.
1. Why are the products of this 'intelligent design' seriously flawed?
2.Who created this creator?

1. You didn't refute anything. We're not discussing intelligent designs except you don't understand the output of this thread. Abd I've told you also severally that flaws in a design do not eliminate the existence of a maker. A flawed car cannot be said to be to be without a manufacturer because of its flaws.

2. Do you accept there's a Creator before asking who created Him? And who told you that a Creator must be created? By what rule or law?

Moreso, you completely avoided the topic. It's either you're dodging the real issue or you don't understand the topic.

MaxInDHouse:
You actually exhibit the character that could make me see you as a GOOD MAN:

But you publicly LIED against someone accusing him of defending you!

While you exhibit the character of a mischievous blackmailer when you know he was the first to accuse and I was the one who eventually apologized to him.

Mischievous liar and fake Christian.

achorladey:
The same MaxInDHouse I know for how many years now. .

The same person that told us if we don't tell him the name of our church he will not respond to us. The next minute he failed his own test

He doesn't ever keep a promise. Very dishonest fellow.

MaxInDHouse:
What are you doing on my thread nah?

You said you're not mentioning me yet you're on my thread talking about me!

I never said I won't talk about you. Did I mention your Monica?

Anytime I have the opportunity, I'll talk about you because you do not exhibit the characters that could make me see you as a good man.

MaxInDHouse:
So you can comment on someone's thread after saying you have nothing to do with him again shey?

Ọmọ your attitude can never change!

Yeah, this is a public forum. Nobody owns a thread on Nairaland. Once you create a thread, anyone can comment on it. You're not the owner of your own thread. You're only a creator. The owners can take it down at anytime. Hope you now understand?

achorladey:
Caught in his lies and manipulations. I told you he is going to blink first.

You were right. The prophecy fulfilled upon his head so fast.

MaxInDHouse:
Of course you are a man of INTEGRITY!




Did this man TRULY defrauded you?

You can go to CNN to ask your question. Filthy JW elder with no integrity. Very dishonest fellow.

achorladey:
You dey mind that liar and manipulator who wants to cover his tracks of lies and manipulations.

Caught in his folly and lack of integrity. Looking for means to dodge.

Maxindhouse, this is someone who knows you well describing your real person.

MaxInDHouse:
Just as you adjusted yourself after lying against someone claiming he defrauded you of ₦200,000:



I thought you and i have parted ways and agreed not to cross each other's part again?

I know you can never ever keep such vow because you're always hungry of chatting with or mentioning me!

Hey, dishonest guy, the person lied against me and I returned it upon his head, then we settled and there's peace.

Now, tell me which other person on this forum I had such friction with?

MaxInDHouse:
On my thread o!

Thank God i am Maximus.

Once i have parted ways with someone there's nothing that can make me go to such a person unless you come for me.

Nonsense!

This is a public platform. I won't mention you but I am free to comment anywhere including on your threads.

MaxInDHouse:
What is he doing on my thread?

I have abandoned him and whatever he wants to type on this forum because i'm a man of my word!

I'm free to comment on your thread dude. I may not mention you as I promised. I never promised not to comment on your thread. You're a filthy man who lacks integrity.

MaxInDHouse:
This shows how hungry you are desperately looking for ways to mention "Maximus"

Na way o!

So, tell me where I mentioned maximus? You liar!

achorladey:
Fxmasterz like I said, that his itchy fingers will mention you very soon.

He simply can't own up to his words. Lacks integrity.

Your prophecy has come to pass. He lacks integrity. Now, I'm free to mention him afterall. Hurray!

achorladey:
He is calling the guy holier than thou on the other thread. Look at the below he too stated about the guy. See how it is easy to show that one line of thought is a fraud peddled by MaxInDHouse

No remorse! Chai!

If I were him, I would appreciate the person who called me to order and then adjust myself.

NowYouKnow:
I can see you have succeeded in conducting meaningful Bible studies on this platform by having meaningless arguments and back & forth insults with people who have no regard for the Bible. When next you give a comment in your kingdom hall be bold enough to tell the brothers and sisters there what you do here. If you can't do that then it is crystal clear that you are not a member of Jehovah's witnesses. You are a devilish pretender and you are ten times worse than the apostates in this forum.

You see now. This fellow you quoted was even blackmailing me all over this platform with all manner of falsehood regarding a matter he knew was already settled. There are many atheists and Muslims on this forum. None of them ever descended so low as to use that matter against me because they knew the truth and they also know it was morally wrong to do so. But this filthy JW fellow calling himself Max went all over the place spreading falsehood just because we deferred on doctrines.

All the JWs here have been very pestilent and terrible. Their characters would chase everyone from being the JW. Only Michael547 has maintained good character and attitude on this platform. The rest are just devils. Even if you do not return their insults, they'll still never call themselves to order. They've cursed, abused and spoken very vile languages towards my person for example, to which by my Christian character I couldn't retaliate. There's a small boy here called Aemmyjah to whom I retaliated only once, and that was because I know that he knows that he is more or less the age mate of my son. After a barrage of insults all day, I retaliated once in the night. I then stopped while he continued. He calls me stupid old man, and uses so many foul words against my person to the extent that I so much detest anything JW today. This people have given me a very clear perspective by their characters that the JW organization is indeed a satanic cult, and that demons actually dwell in their members. Jesus said "By their fruits you would know them." I have concluded about you guys by the fruits you all bear on this platform! Every other thing you do outside of here is mere pretence. The real JWs have shown themselves on this platform. I believe that Michael547 is influenced by good home training. That's the only reason why he seems to be different.

For purpose to be established, there needs to be a mind or a conscious entity behind it. This mind can be human, animal, or even a hypothetical artificial intelligence. The presence of a mind is necessary to:

1. Conceive goals and objectives
2. Make decisions and choices
3. Experience desires and intentions

In other words, purpose requires consciousness, awareness, and intentionality, which are all qualities of a mind. Without a mind, purpose cannot be established or exist. Hence, theirs evidently a mind behind these purposeful and complex designs.

achorladey:
The guy no hold back at all. Na serious open fire.

Lol. He dey vex gidi gán.

achorladey:
cc: Emusan, FxMasterz

Hehehe. JW police don catch am!

Wilgrea7:
I think it's time to address something I've been letting slide ... Which is the idea of "intelligent design". If you notice, I've also avoided using the phrase since the beginning.

That's mainly because I don't see things that way. I agree with things like purpose and functionality.. as clearly seen.. but my issue with the phrase intelligent design is that it looks at things from our perspective, and already tries to establish qualities about a possible creator even before trying to prove one

.

I understand you clearly but by the term Intelligent Design, I do not want to focus on the intelligence in the designs or the lack of it. Rather, I see a situation whereby there is a pre-conceived intention to execute some purposeful activity, then there's something put together intelligently enough with all complexity to fulfil that purpose. So, there's a deliberate cause to bring about a desired effect. By our knowledge today as humans, we know that the effects we see wouldn't be visible if there was anything missing in the complex designs that brought about the effect. This tells us that there's a deliberate and intricate calculation involved in putting the causes in place that give us the effects that makes our world livable. You and I know that a mind or a super mind must have been involved in those things. We cannot deny that they're so intentional and deliberate, and fulfil obviously pre-intended purposes. And, the truth is that only a mind can establish a purpose.

Jaephoenix promised I'll get the monthly atheist palliative (half a cup of rice) if i promised to identify as one.

On a serious note tho.. I just decided to define my beliefs, or lack thereof more clearly.

As long as people understand what atheism is (lack of belief in a god), then I have no issues identifying as one.

Lol. Okay, I believe you're still on a journey. You'll still grasp the truth with time.

AntiisIam:
You just like to be exposing sugar daddy Muhammad with your utterances at times

Do.you mean Prophet Mohammed (Piss be upon him) was a sugar daddy?

Wilgrea7:
the OP listed several things which I summed up into "how" and "why". More precisely, how things are the way they are, and why.

I also explained what I meant when I said complexity in the beginning. Once again. It's okay if you reject these things.

I'll summarize in a way that'll be easier to understand. You listed several qualities of the universe/natural world, like purposefulness, universality, complexity, variety.

You're asking why things are the way they are. Your conclusion is that a creator is responsible.

My response is

1. I don't know why things are the way they are. Why we have complexity, variety, purposefulness etc. as you've described. I'd love to know.. but so far, I don't know why.

2. Your conclusion of a creator doesn't answer the question of why things are the way they are. Even if it did exist (which has so far not still been proven) It just pushes the question a step further.

Do you finally get it or do i have to explain it again?

Actually, in summary, I'm talking about intelligently designed complex things that are by their designs enabled to fulfil particular purposes. This cannot be accidental complex designs. They're intentionally designed to fulfil particular purposes hence there's a Creator behind them. The keyword there is PURPOSE or FUNCTIONALITIES being made possible by intentionally designed complexed stuff.

By the way, when did you start identifying as an atheist. You always say you're an agnostic.

Wilgrea7:
You keep making noise about how you've destroyed atheism, and when someone shows you how your arguments fail, your best rebuttal is

1. "No don't use G word.. g word not c word"
2. Claim the person doesn't know what they're talking about.

By the way I changed all the words with god to creator in my first and second response.. maybe now you can face them?

It's also fine if you can't. But don't just go around singing about destroying atheism when you barely made a reasonable argument to begin with

You didn't show me anything. You've argued only about a god and Complexity. The OP has nothing to do with any of these. Please read to understanding before presenting any argument.

Wilgrea7:
Permit me to sum all these up under the branch of "complexity". Why?

To me, complexity is more than just different varying components coming together to create something different. It also comes from the very essence of a thing. For a thing to have purpose, for a thing to even be at all... both the tiny constituents that make it up, as well as the thing as a whole.

Your argument seems to come from 2 questions.

1. How complexity
2. Why complexity

Basically, we observe things around and within us, and we've seen great, incredibly great complexities (how), and in SOME cases, a sort of function for the complexity (why).


The problem is, this also applies to the idea of a god. Plugging a god into the equation doesn't solve it. It just pushes the question from the universe to the god. Explanation

A god would have to be incredibly complex, perhaps more incomprehensibly complex than the things it 'created'. Such an agent being able to act on it's own denotes a purpose. Not a mission. A purpose, even if self-given. To be able to want to do something, to be able to will and decide something.. that's also a kind of something. How exactly would the nature of this being have come to be? Why exactly is it the way it is?

Just saying "that's because it's god" or "that's the way it is" doesn't answer the question. And you very much as well would not accept that answer from someone who says that about the universe.

Now I can already guess some things you might want to say. Things like eternity, omnipotence and so on, are abstracts. Words that have absolutely zero quantifiable meaning.

We can actually study things like planets, atoms, elements and the universe as a whole to give it properties like complexity, form, origin and so on.

We have absolutely zero information on what a god is supposed to be in terms of these parameters like the ones I've listed above. So giving it properties like eternity, omnipotence and so on have no meaning. Because even if this alleged god existed, we have no way to observe or verify any of the supposed properties you'd ascribe to it.

So at the end of the day, we both end up at the exact same spot, which is having no explanation for how things are, and why they are that way.

For me, it's the universe, for you, it's a god. The only difference is, I've found no reason to take the extra leap just to end up asking the exact same questions I'm asking now.

My friend, we're not talking about any God. Go and sit down.

Wilgrea7:
is the use of the word "god" your problem? You can switch it out for creator if it's easier for you to grasp. We both know both words in this context denote the same thing.

Please go and sit down. I don't think you even understand what we're doing here.

Wilgrea7:
The OP hasn't offered any reasonable argument to begin with. What exactly are we countering? Your preconceived notions on what atheists believe?

Please go and sit down if you don't understand the argument. You'll be the first person to say this since yesterday.

achorladey:
A person threatening to throw people into hellfire don't show attributes of one of Jehovah's Witnesses that I know.

He is an individual that can be compared to those Jesus said except the righteousness of God is greater than their self righteousness......... you know the rest.

Person that referenced 1 Corinthians 15:15 as reason that we should be Jehovah's Witnesses. When I showed him to indeed be Jehovah’s witnesses from the same account means witnessiing about the death, resurrection of Jesus Christ as good as saying when you don't witness about Jesus you make God a false witness about his son and ended up making themselves false witness of Jehovah. According to Paul anyone that who is not doing that is a false witness of Jehovah.

He didn't come back to counter it again.

That's the person I will take serious calling others Antijehovah and wants them inside hellfire

Lol.

He's just deluded and full of self pride like the rest. That's one common trait everyone of them possesses.