₦airaland Forum

achorladey:
That's how they advance their double face. What they sell to outsiders is different from what they sell within.

They're not Christians anyway. They don't believe in Jesus. Their belief is in angel Michael. They're just using the glorious name 'Jehovah' as a cover. They're a group whose object of worship is Michael the archangel. Hence, they seek more and more people to worship an angel as they do. If you're not worshipping Angel Michael, to them, you're not a believer. Look closely at them. They're very carnal people; spiritually ignorant, and have no personal experience of fellowshipping with the Holy Ghost. They do not know what life in the Spirit is. They do not have any inkling of who Jesus is His essence. They think of Jesus in the basest forms similar to Islam. They don't know the actual value of the cross. They have no working knowledge of what salvation is all about. They're just a bunch of carnally minded people doing religion for some imaginary rewards. Their conducts here and their perspectives about the scriptures exposes their spiritual illiteracy and the depth of their bankruptcy.

achorladey:
Your response made me remember what I promised earlier about this.....

Number 1



Number 2




Number 3



Cc: Emusan

From all of the above their essence of Bible study is to convert people to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses not matter how sincere and honest hearted you are in whatever religious organization you belong. It doesn't matter. Studying Bible as a means to encourage one another between them and other Christian denominations is a waste of time when that person don't want to want to become one of Jehovah's Witness.

Very clear. The target is not to bring souls into the kingdom of God but to make them proselytes of their religion. It's on the same level as other godless religions. Christians do evangelism to bring people to Christ. JWs do evangelism to bring people to an organization.

achorladey:
Better you gave him the meaning based on the context of the Bible. You see his response going into atheist, Buddhist, Hinduism and the rest knowing fully that the context of this thread has nothing to do with those beliefs he mentioned. The many works of a liar and manipulator.

At least he knows we told him the truth.

achorladey:
Answer wetin?

I go show you how they hide the essence of their Bible study.

Just tell them they can come study Bible with you but you are not interested in joining them. See if they come again.

Lol.

MaxInDHouse:
Who is a BELIEVER?

Let the Bible answer your question:

John 1:12 describes who a Believer is:

"But as many as received Him (Jesus), to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His (Jesus) name:"

Before you bring heretic teachings from your GB to claim that the name we are expected to believe in is the name "Jehovah ", please be guided by the scriptures below:

Mark 16:17
"And these signs will accompany THOSE WHO BELIEVE: IN MY NAME they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

Philippians 2:9-11
"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

2 Thessalonians 1:12
"We pray this so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ."

Acts 19:17
And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS was magnified.

Hear what Peter claimed he had:

Acts 3:6
"Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but SUCH AS I HAVE give I thee: IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH rise up and walk. And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength."

You want more scriptures? Can yoy see the name? You've also been schooled to know that we witness for Jesus and not Jehovah. This is because Jehovah reveals Himself through Jesus. If you believe in Jesus, you automatically believe in Jehovah. If you reject Jesus, you reject Jehovah. If you honour the name of Jesus, you honour the name of Jehovah.

Luke 10:16
“Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

John 14:9
"Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? ANYONE WHO HAS SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER . How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?"

Emusan:
The best way I do use this to preach the gospel to them is by first asking this subtle question

Must I need to be a Jehovah Witness before I became believer?

Out of curiosity, some will answer outrightly No! But some will give an after thought answer Ye...... No!

The truth is, with that question, you have put them in a tight corner because no where in the scripture God command Christian to be His Witness rather the evidence throughout the scripture is that:

1. The Father Himself is a Witness to His Son
2. The Holy Spirit Himself is a Witness of the Son
3. The Apostles proclaim they are Witness of Jesus Christ
4. Jesus Himself commanded ALL HIS FOLLOWERS TO BE A WITNESS OF HIM not another person.

That is why, you see that the only scripture they can manipulate to back that claim up is from Old Testament which was never even about Jesus not to talk of His followers.

That question na upper cut. I want to see how Maxindhouse would answer it.

He might start boasting about himself now for being mentioned to answer a question.

achorladey:
This is what happens when the brand a religious organization sell is Jehovah

Your Jehovah said to those listening while he spoke from heaven this is my son listen to him.

When that same son was about leaving this earth he said all authority has been given to him and his last words said you are to be witnesses of me all, over the world.

None of his apostles go about witnessing about Jehovah in the new testament the focus was on Jesus Christ. Rutherford came changed the name and changed the brand of your gospel.


That is the truth you don't want to admit.

If we receive the witness men give, the witness God gives is greater, because this is the witness God gives, the fact that he has borne witness concerning his Son.


Witnesses of Jehovah's organization(Rutherford) is greater than that of Jehovah. Jehovah’s organization = God. You know.

cc FxMasterz, Oteneaaron, Emusan, MightySparrow

Thanks for enlightening Maxindhouse. These JWs have done all their best in an attempt to bastardize the Word of God but they couldn't. This is the reason why I choose to call them JWs instead of 'Jehovah Witnesses'. They clearly do not witness for 'Jehovah' but for their cult. Jehovah does not need any witnesses, "For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made." Jehovah already has everything witnessing for Him. He doesn't need Maxindhouse or his cult to do that.

Jesus Christ needs witnesses because not everyone is aware of the works He accomplished on the cross.

In Acts 1:8, Christ said:
"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me (not unto Jehovah) both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

The JW movement is lying movement that prophesied Christ's coming in 1874, 1878 and 1914 in deceit and in blatant disregard of Christ's warning that His second coming can not be pre-announced because it will be a sudden event. Christ said His coming will be as clear as thunder strike that could be seen by everyone, the lying witnesses said He has come in an invisible fashion as a mighty spirit King. The liars didn't stop at that in their lying witnessing, they said Christ started ruling in heaven in 1914, deliberately lying against Jesus Christ whose rulership has been described in scriptures before Russel himself was born: "But to the Son He says: Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
" Hebrews 1:8.

Can we ever exhaust the many lies of these Lying Witnesses'?

This is a great observation. The most impressive point to me here is that light is gradually withdrawing and as a result, darkness is gradually increasing. With the increase of darkness comes an increase in iniquity. The whole redpill movement, feminism, widespread nudity, open satanism and the increased lack of empathy that has birthed very heinous crimes tells us that darkness is indeed gradually enveloping the world as the Scriptures have foretold. The end is fast approaching. Our redemption is nearer today than ever before.

Isaiah 60:2:
"For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee."

We live at a time when our lights as believers should shine brighter. Iniquity is increasing. Therefore, Righteousness has the great opportunity to make a clear distinction in the world.

This is a clarion call to the saints:

"Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the LORD rises upon you."

The world is getting darker. The end of the age is fast approaching. Let us shine the light and make a difference.

Baldwretch:
Lol. Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven, they are not the same thing? How can you say the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven is not the same thing? What is the Kingdom of Heaven if it is not God's Kingdom. This is one thing I am yet to understand.

Jesus regularly spoken in parables and in his parables he sometimes calls it the Kingdom of God and in other instances he calls it the Kingdom of Heaven. I don't understand why we're trying to separate God from his throne. When Mathew gives an account of a parable Jesus said, he used the Kingdom of Heaven, but when Mark and Luke narrate the same parable, they used the Kingdom of God. They are interchangeable and mean the same thing. Mathew describes the narrow way as the Kingdom of God. We don't have to quibble over the meaning of words. God himself said the Heavens is his throne and the earth is his footstool.

Smiling.

Let me explain. There's Heaven where God dwells. There's the Kingdom of God in which God's authority and dominion from heaven is manifested in the lives of the saints. There's the Kingdom of Heaven which shall be the extension of Heaven on earth in the world to come. It is the physical manifestation of the kingdom of God which is currently within us.

Look differently this time when you encounter these terms in scripture. You'll be able to differentiate them. You and I know that there's an heaven where God currently dwells. We know that even that heaven would pass away according to the scriptures. We also know that God's Dominion and Authority operates within us right now. God is in us. The kingdom of God is with us. You also know that there's a new heaven and a new earth coming. There's a an heavenly Jerusalem in our future. That's the Kingdom of Heaven. The eternal abode of all saints. These 3 have distinct representations in scripture. Jesus is not the Kingdom of God. So, Jesus can't say the kingdom of God is among you because He is with you. This is what He said: "The kingdom of God does not COME with observation (Not visibly observable). Neither will they say lo here, or lo there (No physical location). The Kingdom of God is within you (It's in our inner lives)." The kingdom of God is not something you can physically see. It is spiritual. It abides within us.

Even according to you, spirit beings reside in the kingdom of heaven. Are these beings within us?

You have not answered any of the objections I put out, sadly.

Please mention the objections I'm yet to answer. I'll immediately make references to what I said about the objections.

Baldwretch:
This is a funny rebuttal. The duo are interchangeable and can be used freely. Jesus is a manifestation of the kingdom of God. That is what he is saying basically. This is what verse 20 of the chapter reads:

One day the Pharisees asked Jesus, “When will the Kingdom of God come?”

So in essence, Jesus is saying, for the first time in human history, someone from the Kingdom of God has been sent down and he is standing within you. Could Jesus have used Heaven instead? Yes of course, but that's not the point. The idea of Jesus being a manifestation of the Kingdom of God is reecho in chapter 11 of the same Luke:

But if I am casting out demons by the power of God, then the Kingdom of God has arrived among you.

The Kingdom of God being within you or arriving among you as this verse puts it is the same thing. The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven is the same thing, but that's not the point. God and his throne (Heaven) are inseparable. Whichever you choose to use is fine. The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven have been used interchangeably in the same chapters of the gospel. I don't know where we got this teaching from.

Look into all what you quoted above. They're all talking about the kingdom of God. Not the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus gave many parables about the kingdom of heaven. A woman who lost a coin. A man who found treasure and sold all he had to get it. The shepherd who lost one sheep and left 99 to go find it, etc. All are about the kingdom of heaven. Look, if you don't settle some fundamental things, you'll be confused and fall into heresies. In all of Jesus' references to the Kingdom of heaven, a future kingdom is implied. Meanwhile, the kingdom of God is within us. Not just among us. The kingdom of heaven is not among us yet. Search the scriptures please.

You see, I have asked numerous critical questions in the past, studies the scriptures extensively for a period spanning multiple decades. It's difficult for me to be confused. I can isolate this teaching about the kingdom of God and the Kingdom of heaven and teach it comprehensively. Please they're not the same things. I encourage you to search the scriptures more closely.

You have to understand the members of a bounded and an unbounded set. If Jesus, talking to multitudes, said, among those born of women there hath not risen someone greater than John, then strictly speaking, would that be appropriate to include me and you who lived after John? NO. We are not included. The comparison is between John and those who lived before him[/quote,]

The comparison was actually done to give us a picture of the old dispensation, John as the bridge to the next dispensation and then, the next dispensation. You've even ignored all scripture references and replaced them with personal logic. No my brother. We don't interpret the Word of God like that.


[quote]Even though you and I are born of women, we had not existed at the time the statement was made. Jesus did not say among those who would ever live or among those who would ever be born by women. If he had said that, then the whole of human history is placed on the other said of the scale. It seems to me that Jesus is saying of all who have ever lived.

That doesn't mean Jesus can't talk about HIS GENERATION. Perhaps you don't know we're His generation. We are the product of His resurrection. Jesus was constantly talking about what He came to accomplish. Please go and study the Bible more.

Jesus is talking of people who had lived and existed pre-John because this is Jesus peering into human history and sizing up every creature's righteousness before God. The same is true of the "least in the Kingdom of Heaven." Hence, it cannot stand to reason that the least in question are people who hadn't existed at the time the statement was made. It doesn't make any sense then to infer that the least in the Kingdom are people who would exist in the future. Both parties have to exist at the time of comparison.

That's according to you.

Jesus was talking about those who had lived pre-john, John, and those who'll emerge when His work was done.

He was actually talking about the entire human race for all time. How can John be the least in the kingdom of God if he has not yet been compared with every single being who would inherit the kingdom? So, do you mean Jesus used half of the human race to determine whether he'll be the greatest or the least? A race till that point in time was not as great as John. A selected few who would be possessors of the Kingdom of God in a race after that point in time are greater in comparison to John. John was the centre point for a group before him who he is greater than and a group after him who he is not greater than. You should understand that the comparison is between John and other men, not between John and men and spirit beings. That's a ridiculously flawed comparison.

Also, again on who the least in the Kingdom are. This is as clear as light and I don't know why you don't see it. You said Jesus cannot be comparing a human being and a spirit being and called it disorderly, but how is it disorderly. The comparison is between the finest and choicest of human beings and the lowest and "basest" of spirit beings. How is that out of place? Would it be disorderly to compare the finest and choicest place on earth to the basest and least desirable of heavenly habitation. It is not out of place. This type of comparison happens all the time. The balance of comparison is in the choice and use of comparatives. It is not best vs best or worst vs worst. This comparison is meant to magnify one at the expense of the other which is not out of place for Christ to do. Christ is only explaining that mankind has a long way to go.

Why would Jesus compare John to spirit beings? What message exactly was He passing across with such comparison? Tell me where in the scriptures, you have seen references to spirit beings in the kingdom of God. All scriptures referencing the kingdom of God talk about the saints. They all talk about believers. Jesus came to earth for men. He didn't come for spirit beings. He died for men. He didn't die for spirit beings. His focus has always been men. The kingdom of God is among men. It is within men. Men would inherit the kingdom of God. Men would possess the Kingdom of God. You can't isolate that scripture out of all numbers scriptures, give it your own personal interpretation and say Jesus was referring to spirit beings.

You just have to tell us the lesson Jesus was going to pass across by saying that. The lessons He was passing across by adding that men should press into the kingdom of God if it was a reference to spirit beings. What He meant by saying the law and the prophets were until John. What He meant by saying NOW, the kingdom of God is preached. Why was Jesus asking men to press into it, telling them them the Kingdom of God now suffers the violent? A kingdom meant for spirit beings?

MaxInDHouse:
Chai you're a real liar and you can't change!

Chai!! Maxindhouse, do you want to deny that you said "We shall not all sleep?" You want to lie about that? Let me disgrace you by bringing out your statement which I quoted. Make I disgrace you?

achorladey:
You see how he went to QUORA to pick evidence to support the werey peddling of his brains. After seeing the same counter response on that same QUORA he had to simmer

His brother MaxInDHouse was busy quoting scriptures where he said Jesus was busy contradicting the scriptures. After refuting it he entered



He must look for every means to bring you into his lies and manipulations. That's why don't give him room to jump here and there. Tie him down on one spot. Once the fails he will look for room to run.

You're right bro. He kept jumping and jumping until we arrived at where we are. I can't even remember where we started from again.

Baldwretch:
The irony is that I am taking the verse at face value, but you are the one using logic to interprete it.

I am going to explain this to you one more time, if you still don't agree then we can just agree to disagree.

There is no difference whatsoever between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven. I don't know where you get the difference from. The two words are interchangeable and they mean the same thing.

Just answer the question below to see if the two mean the same thing:

"The Kingdom of God is Within You" This is the key phrase in Luke 17:21.

Is the kingdom of heaven within you?

Now, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

What is he comparing, John the baptist and those who would later be born again saints? Is that what this verse is comparing? Are they the least in the Kingdom of Heaven the latter part of the verse mentions? This verse is clearly comparing something, but is it comparing John and the least in the Kingdom of God which in any arbitrary instance can mean a born again christian? NO! A big fat no, sir.

I believe this would become clear the moment you answer the question I asked above.

The comparision is between John whom Jesus calls the greatest among those born of women and the least in Heaven who is a spiritual being. The least in the Kingdom of heaven is not indicative of a person who is born of the spirit, but a spiritual being. When you talk of the earth in the basest form, you don't talk of spirit beings, you talk of human beings. Similarly, when you talk of the Kingdom of Heaven, you don't talk of human beings but spirit beings. I hope you understand. This is as simple as ABC. When he mentions the least in the Kingdom, he is mentioning a spirit

I won't do much talking this time around because you've accused me of using logic even though I have quoted numerous scriptures already. Now, look at the bolded above and compare to this scripture below:

John 3:3
"Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

I believe you know Jesus told Nicodemus that to be born again is to be born of the Spirit.

This verse is comparing John the baptist and the least in the Kingdom of Heaven who is essentially a spirit being, not necessarily a person born of the spirit. This is pure common sense. I have tried using different umbrella to make you see that, but must of the poisionous contents online that argue that the least in the Kingdom of Heaven can also refer to a born again christian hasn't made you read the passage without bias. Be without prejudice for once, please. Who are the least in the Kingdom of Heaven that Jesus is talking about? Those born of the spirit or spiritual beings? In the basest form, when a man talks of Heaven, is he talking of spiritual beings or those born of the spirit? Spiritual beings, clearly. The comparision of Jesus is like this, the best and finest of men is worse, far worse, than the "worst" of Heaven's dwellers, and the best and finest of men is John who is more than a prophet.

The least in the Kingdom of heaven is not a spirit being. Rather a man who became born again. Jesus cannot be comparing a human being to a spirit being. That's disorderly.

When it mentions among those born of women and it mentions John, that is not out of place. John is certainly born of a woman who might not be born again, but I have to ask where the conjecture for those who are born again is in the verse or in verses surrounding it. Among those born of women is granted, but I can't seem to find where there is any mention of those born of the spirit in the same verse.

John 3 explains that those born of the Spirit enter the kingdom of God and by extension, the kingdom of heaven.

Those who are least in the Kingdom of God are not (at the time Jesus was preaching this sermon) those born of the spirit but spiritual beings. How can Christ be comparing a group of people who do not exist with one who does (John)? Can you please point me.

Jesus was preparing the people to understand the work He was about to do. He told the Samaritan woman in John 4, "A time is coming."

Think about this:

The kingdom of heaven is a future Kingdom. The scriptures says "The heavens and the earth shall pass away." Even this current heaven shall pass away. But the Kingdom of heaven Jesus was talking about is not one that would pass away. All old and new testament saints would be in that kingdom as the verse indicates.

Baldwretch:
On whether John is born again, I might have to backtrack as it pertains to that. I was taken down a hole that I didn't envision. The contention is whether among those born of women excludes certain people.

Let's read the chapter contextually. I would start from verse 7. In the preceding verse, John had sent disciples to ask if Jesus was the One.

7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

Question: Who was Jesus talking to? The multitudes. Now, the multitudes are the Jews who might be familiar with water baptism, but know almost nothing about being born of the spirit. Jesus was talking to a group of people whose level of comprehension he knows; he was talking to a bunch of people who needed to be spoken to in the language they understand.

8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.

9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

Question: What did Jesus mean by more than a prophet? It isn't just that Jesus approved of John's very ascetic lifestyle as verse 18 shows, but it is more than that. It gives pointers as to why Jesus said what he said. If John was sent to clear path for the messenger of the New covenant, this tells us a lot about the calibre of person he is.

Answer:

Very simple answer my brother. As I said earlier, John partook of both the Old Testament anointing and a little of the New. Hence he was more than a prophet. Which prophet does not offer sacrifices to get to God in the Old Testament? Which prophet did not have to pray facing Jerusalem? None. Why? Because they were 100% human. There's nothing connecting them to God within their spirit. They related with God on physical terms. 100% physical. Was that how John related with God? No! John had a different type of relationship with God similar to that of New Testament saints but not in its fullness. John didn't have to make sacrifices or face Jerusalem. He was more than a prophet. The Holy Spirit was Upon and WITHIN him. Even though, he was not born again or born of the Spirit as New Testament saints are. This should already be clear.

The book of Hebrews after describing all that Jesus accomplished for New Testament saints as our High Priest says in 4:16:

"Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need."

No Old Testament saint could dare the above instruction. He'll die. Do you know the amount of rituals the High Priests do to enter into the Holy of Holies once a year?

There was no throne of grace for them, it was a throne of mercy. The mercy only came after sin offerings, peace offerings and ritualistic sanctifications with blood of animals. You don't even seem to understand the extent of Works done by Jesus Christ to give us this life of grace we now enjoy in New Testament.

John 1:16
"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

You have to understand that throughout human history, man has had prophets sent from God. Man will always be guided by God; very, very devout men who see visions, vision of events that have not taken place and even visions of God. We have had prophets who were opportune by virtue of divine mercy to commune with God in the physical plane, but none of these prophets were prophesied to come at the time they came. Moses. Daniel. Ezekiel, etc, etc, they all came, but were not prophesied, but John is a big and singular difference. He is not just a prophet, but a forerunner of the covenant. You have to tell me what you understand by "more than a prophet" and why it is preposterous to believe that a man who is described as more than a prophet should be regarded according to God as the greatest man who ever lived.

10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Question: What is meant by among them that are born of women? I have answered this question several times. This is talking about the human race with no exceptions. Being born of the spirit is second-level plane as far as reason is concerned. Your humanity is first-level plane. You cannot be more spiritual than you are human. Can a person be born of women and be born of the spirit? Yes, of course, but does that make him a spirit being like those in Heaven are? No, of course not. Those in heaven are essentially spirit beings and if we say they are born of God, that would not be far-fetched. Those on earth are essentially human beings and if we say they are born of women, that would not be far-fetched too. There is a very big and marked difference between being born again and being a spirit being. Light and day difference Even if the claim is made that humans can be born of the spirit which is true, that does not do justice to the comparison because those born of the spirit in Heaven (heaven dwellers) are essentially spirit beings while those born of the spirit on earth are essentially humans, at least for now.

John was not just born of a woman. He was infused with the Spirit of God right from the womb. It wasn't his commission that made him greater. It was the Spirit of God within him. All other prophets who came before him had the Spirit of God upon them. John had the Spirit of God upon and within him. He was greater. Now listen to this. Why were the prophets of old - Moses, Elijah, etc greater than other men? Because of their commission? No. Because they had the Spirit of God upon them. No other person had that. The Spirit of God made a clear difference between them and other ordinary folks. Who made the difference? The Spirit of God.

Now, the same Spirit of God makes the difference between John and them too. How? They only had the Spirit of God upon them but John had the Spirit of God upon him and within him. Who's making the difference between John and the Old Testament Prophets? The Holt Spirit again. Now, the same Holy Ghost makes the difference between us and John. How? John had the Spirit upon him and within him but we here are Born of the Spirit, have the Spirit within us, and also have the Spirit Upon us. We talk to God anytime like friend to friend. Like a son to his father. We fellowship with God freely like Adam and Eve did before the fall. Both John and the old testament prophets had no such privileges.

Jesus said, notwithstanding he that is least in the Kingdom of Heaven... But he that is least in the Kingdom of Heaven is a spirit being. All of heaven's inhabitants are spirit beings. God himself is the head and the commander of all spirits. Isn't this very clear?

Again, it is interesting to know that even among those born of women was spoken from a lay man's point of view by Jesus seeing that he was speaking to the multitudes. What they understood every of Jesus statement to mean is very important. If Jesus had said, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is born of the spirit or born again least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he is, then that might be debatable. But that is not the case.


12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Question: Did Jesus call John the seal of the prophets? Yes and clearly. Is it any wonder that Jesus sees him in high esteem seeing from ver 12 that the Kingdom of heaven suffered violence within the short time he lived.

14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,

17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.

18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

The whole thing you've said here rotates around one misconception:

"Those in the kingdom of heaven iare spirit beings in heaven."

The Kingdom of heaven Jesus was talking about is not the current heaven which is just heaven. The current heaven where spirit beings are, is not the kingdom of heaven. It is simply heaven. The Kingdom of Heaven is a future kingdom which the saints of the most high would possess at the end of time.

Baldwretch:
Let's face among those born of women squarely.

Now, if your understanding of - among those born of women there hath not risen a greater than John implies two births

Those born of women on earth and those born of the spirit then you are very wrong because the latter part (notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he) talks of those born of the spirit in Heaven.

But those born of the spirit in Heaven are essentially spirit beings as I pointed in my first rebuttal. It would not hold. If Jesus meant that he that is born of the spirit or he that is born again least in Heaven is greater than John then this fails in the comparison test because this is no longer about Heaven and earth but about earth and glorified saints in Heaven. It makes no sense. This begs the question: Would John fail to make Heaven or would he live continue to live as a human in Heaven.

My brother, those born of women are on earth. Those born of the Spirit are also on earth.

The kingdom of heaven Jesus was talking about was a future Kingdom which those born of the Spirit on earth would eventually inherit. There's nothing like "Those born of the Spirit in Heaven". Nothing like that at all. All who are born of the Spirit are here on earth. First born of women, then reborn of the Spirit. That's what it means to be born again. The Father didn't get such to worship Him even in Heaven and in the Old Testament but "The time is coming when those who would worship the Father would do so in spirit and in truth because the Father seeks such to worship Him here on earth." John 4:23, Paraphrased.

Now, with this explanation, kindly go through my submissions again to grasp what I'm saying. You see, the scripture is our ultimate authority. Not personal logic.

Janosky:
John 5:18
So the Jewish leaders tried all the harder to find a way to kill him. For he not only broke the Sabbath, he called God his Father, thereby making himself equal with God




Oga STOP WAILING and deceiving yourself.

1 Corinthians 1:10 is in your Bible.


According to your MUMU logic & your misguided worldly standard, you deny and reject 1 Corinthians 1:10.
Screenshot evidence.

1 Corinthians 1:10 didn't say having the same doctrine is the way to know true Christians.

Infact all of Paul's Epistles were written to address various doctrinal issues among true Christians.

The Lord Jesus wrote to 7 churches in the book of Revelation. Each of them individually had the same doctrine but majority of them were failures.

Christ was not accused of contradicting scriptures in the verses you quoted. They only accused Him of not obeying the scriptures.

We'll like to see where He was directly accused of contracting scriptures in a way similar to the below:

1 Corinthians 15:51

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed..."


JW :

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall all sleep, and we shall all be changed...[/b]"

I believe that the above is the position of your cult since you have jumped in to defend Maxindhouse on this verse.

Baldwretch:
I agree with this submission.

We all agree that John has God's spirit upon and within him, how is he less than any spirit-filled Christian as your interpret Jesus statement? If a man has God's spirit right from birth, how can it be said that he is not born of the spirit? I was surprised by your submission so I had to take you to Jesus dialogue with Nicodemus. It's almost as if Jesus is saying, you should know better; one of God's mode of operation should be like a fact at the palm of your hand. How can you call yourself a teacher of the law and you don't know that having spiritual life is absolutely important to entrance into the kingdom of God.

Secondly, all I see you doing is explaining and trying to differentiate how a man can be filled with the spirit of God from birth and not be born again. It is not possible. Jesus said the wind blows wherever it goes... but you cannot explain how people are born of the spirit.

Now, let's discuss the scripture itself in isolation.. Using the standard principle of Biblical Interpretation, we'll dissect the scripture to dispel any insinuation of fallacies through assumptions.


Mathew 11:11-13

"Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John..."

1. Our key-word in the verse is "Among those born of women ".

The opening statement itself is the basis of the interpretation of that scripture. You'll expect the statement to go like this: "Among those born of women, there's none greater than John the Baptist but among those born of ? , he is the least." This is because the statement is a comparative statement. Hence, we can only compare 'Born' with 'Born'.

Now, to further drive home some spiritual truths and give us a better understanding of the times we live in, instead of saying those born of the Spirit or born of some other entity as a direct comparison to those both of women, Jesus decided to use another keyword: "in the kingdom of heaven "

Now 'those Born of women' Vs 'those in the kingdom of heaven.' This forms the line of comparison.

To interpret this scripture, you need to find out what those in the kingdom of heaven are born of because the statement is a comparative statement between'Born' and 'Born'. The correct interpretation would rest on 'Born' Vs 'Born'. 'Born' is the most important word in the statement.

So, what are the people in the kingdom of heaven born of? They're born of the Spirit. Old testament people were not born or the spirit, including John. The concept of being born of the Spirit is a new testament concept that came after the resurrection of Christ. No old testament saint can tell you he was born again. To be born again is to be born of the Spirit. Nicodemus was one of those old testament saints who had the privilege to live at the period of the dispensational transition from Old to New Testament. Jesus told him "You must be Born Again." Yet, he did not understand.

Now, the rest of the discourse from verse 12 tells us even more especially verse 13: "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."

John was the termination of the dispensation of the Law and Prophets (Old Testament). He was also the Transition to New Testament which is based on life in the Spirit rather than life in the law and the prophets.

See? The scripture itself is self explanatory. There's no theological disputation among believers regarding this verse. What I have explained above is pure Biblical Hermeneutics. The disciples didn't have to ask Jesus any question about the statement because it was simple and clear. Right from the time of John the Baptist, people started pressing into the Kingdom. Before then, there was no kingdom to press into. John was a bridge between the none-kingdom and Kingdom era. Now, I'm breaking things down because you're thinking I was assuming. I didn't see any need to break it down previously because I thought it was already obvious.

The new testament saints are Kingdom saints born of the Spirit of God by the incorruptible Word of God. The old testament saints have no such claim. They're born of women and can only approach God who is a Spirit by sacrifices. We approach God as spirit beings without needing any animal sacrifice because we're born of the Spirit and could relate directly with the Father as spirit to Spirit.


Daniel 7:21-22

"I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints (New Testament Saints), and prevailed against them;

22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints (The Ones who warred against the horn) of the most High; and the time came that the saints (The New Testament Saints) possessed the kingdom."

This is Christ's promise to the apostles who were the foundation of the New Testament era:

Mathew 19:28

"Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

Ask yourself, if the apostles are sitting on thrones to rule Israel, where would John the Baptist be since he is an Israelite?. Would the apostles not rule over him? The Church is the Queen where Christ is King. As I pointed out previously in another of my mentions to you, John himself testified that he is a friend of the Bridegroom. Friends don't sit on thrones with kings. Only Queens do.

John wasn't born again. He wasn't born of the Spirit. He wasn't even a Christian. He was a follower of Moses. He was the last of the Old Testament Prophets: "The law and the prophets were until John..."

Janosky:
1 Corinthians 1:10
But I urge you, believers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in full agreement in what you say, and that there be no divisions or factions among you, but that you be perfectly united in your way of thinking and in your judgment [about matters of the faith].


According to Paul the apostle, FX Masterz,You are contradicting scriptures. You know it. Stop being deceptive!

According to FX Masterz MUMU label, Paul the apostle and ALL believers united in the same way of thinking are cults [/b]

FX IBERIBEISM.

[/b]

You, you don't know how to even sit and discuss the scriptures to drive home whatever point you have. All you is to be shouting 'iberiberism' here and there. Is that what they told you you'll be shouting in heaven?

Please just post a scripture where Jesus was ACCUSED of contradicting the scriptures. Don't bring quora deliberations to me as Scripture.

We have the same minds and thoughts. We may not have the same understanding, knowledge or doctrine. The oneness of our thoughts allow us to fellowship together in spite of doctrinal differences. The Bible never said we should have the same doctrines. We were only commanded to teach sound doctrines. That's all. When doctrines are forced on people, there'll be lies and deception as seen in JW gatherings.

Baldwretch:
I agree with this submission.

We all agree that John has God's spirit upon and within him, how is he less than any spirit-filled Christian as your interpret Jesus statement? If a man has God's spirit right from birth, how can it be said that he is not born of the spirit? I was surprised by your submission so I had to take you to Jesus dialogue with Nicodemus. It's almost as if Jesus is saying, you should know better; one of God's mode of operation should be like a fact at the palm of your hand. How can you call yourself a teacher of the law and you don't know that having spiritual life is absolutely important to entrance into the kingdom of God.

Secondly, all I see you doing is explaining and trying to differentiate how a man can be filled with the spirit of God from birth and not be born again. It is not possible. Jesus said the wind blows wherever it goes... but you cannot explain how people are born of the spirit. I can't believe you have dragged me down the hole of who a person born of a woman is and now we are discussing who are the exceptions from that statement.

Sir, of all those born of women is quite clear. It's not as if some are not born of women and exceptions can be made. If that had been the case, a blanket statement like this would not have been necessary. If Christ wanted to refer to the human race without exceptions, how else do you expect him to say it? Do you realize that Jesus has had personal encounters with John before he uttered those statement.




We are talking about ranks. Jesus was talking about ranks. Oh common, don't be naive. There is something like - how much of God's Spirit one has. God took his spirit from Moses and gave some portions to 70 Israelite elders and he still had more than each of them.

Yes, God knows how he does his ranking and that is why we must not make exceptions for Christ statement. If Christ had said of all those who are married or unmarried, none is greater than John, then that would be granted and taken and even then, no exceptions should be made from those group. We should never say, for instance, that Christ meant all unmarried men or all unmarried people who are not born again if the statement had read: among those who had been married, none is greater than John and yet even the least in the kingdom is greater than he is.

The biggest punch to your argument is what I would call the error of assumption. Assuming what Christ didn't say. Even the least in the Kingdom of heaven in the latter part of that verse is not a reference to born again Christians, or born again Christians in heaven, so stop assuming. They are not the least in Heaven that Jesus is talking about because he said in another verse of John's gospel that no one has gone to Heaven and come back, but the Son came down from Heaven. Take that verse literally. Even the crowd did not fully understand the concept of being born again.

Please my brother , go and study the scriptures I quoted and let the Holy Spirit speak to you. All these things are still fundamentals of the christian faith. You might also need to find the difference between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven as used in scripture. These are two different things.

You're mixing things up by thinking that having the Spirit of God dwelling in you is the same as being born of the Spirit.

You also think that people can have the Spirit of God in measurements. The Spirit of God is a Being. He's not liquid or air. You can't have the Spirit of God in measures. You can only be closer and more intimate with Him. The illustration you gave regarding Moses and the 70 elders does not imply that the Spirit of God was measured like some Cup measurement on people. It only means that the Holy Ghost distributed gifts to those elders to enable them function in the same 'judge' office that Moses functioned in. Read 1Cor. 12:1-11 for details regarding this. It is One and same Holy Spirit manifesting in Moses that manifested in all 70. He wasn't upon them in different measurements but different levels of manifestations.

Now Jesus clearly said "Of all those BORN OF WOMEN..." All saints (old and new testament) are born of women but not all saints are born of the Spirit.

What Jesus told Nicodemus is a New Testament truth. Nicodemus could not understand because 'Being born again' or 'Being born of the Spirit' is a new Testament phenomenon. Infact John proclaimed Jesus as the One whose shoe latches he was unworthy to untie, "He is He that baptizes with the Holy Ghost."

I think you should go on a study to research what is means to be born of the Spirit. It isn't the same as being filled with the Spirit. You were born of the Spirit on the day you gave your life to Christ. You were filled with the Spirit on the day you were baptized in the Holy Ghost. These are two different events. The disciples were born of the Spirit while they were with Christ. They were filled with the Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Before the day of Pentecost, Jesus breathed on them and said "Receive ye the Holy Ghost." John 20:22. In Acts 19:2, Paul asked some Believers "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost." Note that they were believers. Infact they were John's disciples but they had no Holy Ghost. Paul had to lay hands on them to receive the Holy Ghost.

I believe that should be clear as I wouldn't want to bore you down with lengthy explanations. You can bear me witness that all my explanations are with scripture references. There are no assumptions as you claimed. Perhaps you aren't reading them. I've never made any blanket statement as you alleged. Now, let me give you these points to meditate on:

1. The New Testament saints are the Bride of Christ. The Old Testament saints are not the Bride of Christ. Only the Church is the Bride of Christ. Now, the bride of the King is the King's Queen. Let this tell you the place that God has put new testament Saints.

2. New Testament saints are the Body of the Christ. The Head and the Body sit on the same throne. The Old Testament saints are not the Body of Christ.

3. New Testament saints approach God freely. Old Testament saints must make sacrifices to do that. Consider why we don't kills animals to approach to God. That should tell you that Jesus did something to put us in some special place with God.

4. John called Old Testament saints the friends of Christ while he referred to New Testament saints as the bride of Christ. The king's friends don't sit on the throne of his kingdom but his bride does.

John 3:26-29
"And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.

27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.

29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the FRIEND of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice THIS MY JOY IS THEREFORE FULFILLED ".

Even John referred to himself as the friend of the bridegroom while the new testament saints who believe in Jesus are the Bride.

The. Find out what Jesus meant by the following:

"[,b]Yet a time is coming and has now come[/b] when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, [b[and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth[/b].”

In summary, the Father seeks some kinds of worshippers. A time is coming (New Testament Time) when you won't have to get to a temple or look for one mountain (Horeb, Sinai or Zion) before you can worship God as did the people of the Old Testament. You'll stay where you are and worship God in Spirit facing any direction. The old testament believers faced the Temple. God is seeking such types of worshippers. The New testament saints are not in the same class as the old. I still have so many scriptures flowing through my spirit as I type. Please ask the Holy Ghost for more insights.

Solofresh2:
R.I.P dad😥

Take heart. He's resting.

Baldwretch:
Still on this contradictions.

When you make exceptions that Jesus didn't intend, you create problems, not solution.

Let me ask you, what makes John greater than the Old Testament saints since according to you - among those born of women - means those who lived before him? Do you honestly think a man Jesus calls more than a prophet is not spirit-filled? Even the prophets and anointed kings who lived long before him had God's spirit, so how can he be least among those who have God's spirit (after his demise) when he himself has God's spirit? If John didn't have God's spirit and was spiritually dead, I would still have to ask you, among those who have God's spirit, who is the greatest? We are not told is a clever coup-out. You see the problem; I hope you see it. Is Jesus saying John the Baptist is less than any spirit-filled Christian?

There's no problem here at all. John was a bridge between the Old Testament and New Testament. John had the Spirit upon and within him. He was the only Old Testament saint who had the spirit within. His baptism happened when pregnant Mary visited his mother Elizabeth while she was in John's pregnancy. That made him have the Spirit Upon and Within him. The Spirit being within him gave him a taste of the new testament dispensation. He was not born of the Spirit. No one was ever born of the Spirit until Christ died and resurrected. However, John was different from the Old Testament saints because unlike them, He had the Spirit of God abiding within him. It happened even while he was in the womb.

God himself decides who is the greatest regardless of what measure of his spirit he bestows. Climbing the ranks in God is not a matter of how much of God's spirit you have alone because even his spirit is bestowed. God chose Moses not because he was the greatest among men or the most spirit-filled or whatever. Part of what makes a good Christian is an acceptance of the divine will and choice. If Christ says John is the greatest (and rightly so) who are we to make exceptions.

It was never a subject of the most spirit-filled is the greatest, or John is less than any spirit-filled Christians.

There's nothing like how much of God's Spirit one has. So, that cannot be a measure for climbing the ranks. But we're not talking ranks actually. God knows how He does His ranking. We're taking about The Old and New Testament saints and the positions they hold with God.

No one is saying John was the most Spirit filled. Please read my submissions again. John was a class that combined a bit of the Old and New Testament dispensations of God with man.

God was relating with all Old Testament saints on 100% physical terms because they were 100% physical beings. Infact they had to do animal sacrifices to get closer to God. John didn't need that, neither do we.

Baldwretch:
If I get you correctly, he is least in comparison to those who are born again.

Question: Were the Old Testament saints spiritually dead?

Answer: NO! I honestly do not think so, and I hope you don't think so too. Moses, Ezekiel, Daniel, Isaiah, Elijah, Elisha. I am choosing to list out spirit-filled Old Testament saints for you. Are any of these I have listed spiritually dead?

Another question: Were the Old Testament saints born again or born of the Spirit as you choose to call it?

Answer: I would not say they weren't born again because whatever salvation was wrought in Old Testament times by God was wrought by the Holy Spirit. In Christ discussion with Nicodemus, he assumed that as a respected teacher of the law that he is, he should know this, but sadly he didn't. God still saved some by his Spirit even in Old Testament times even when the sacrifices was fully in place.

It is very unreasonable to call John a prophet and more than a prophet and then make conjectures from his statement that makes exemptions for those born of women. Very unreasonable if you ask me. If Christ wanted to make exceptions, he would not have used that phrase. It was a given in old Palestine that whenever anyone says among those born of women, there are making no exceptions. If they wanted to make exceptions, there are other ways they'd say it.

The comparison is between a man who is the subject of ancient prophecies, a man sent from above, to, as Malachi puts it - prepare the way before me, and Heaven dwellers. The crowd understood the comparison. The disciples understood the comparison, but 21st century man doesn't.

By virtue of being the one whose preaching would, as Malachi puts it again, turn the hearts of fathers to their children, and the hearts of children to their fathers, this is actually a weighty duty that comes with a very heavy reward. Oga, John is it. The most righteous man who would ever live. Men would have to join the queue when they get to Heaven.

The thing is that you're pouring out your thoughts only. There's no scripture to back you up.

Let me give you two scriptures that shows that Old Testament saints were not born of the Spirit. If they were, there'll be no need for Holy Ghost baptism in the new Testament. Lol. That's exactly why Jesus told Nicodemus, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit ..." Note that Nicodemus was a pious man but he was not born again. An old testament saint is not one who is Born of the Spirit. He has the Spirit UPON him but he is not BORN of the Spirit. The New Testament man is Born of the Spirit, has the Spirit Upon him and also has the Spirit WITHIN him. The old testament saint only had the spirit upon him. Nothing more. That's why you would hear "And the Spirit of the Lord came upon him" in the Old testament. These are deep things of the Spirit.

Now, take a look at these scriptures:

In Galatians 4:29, Paul speaking about the persecution of the Jews and the Pharisees:

"But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now."

The Jews including all their prophets were born of the flesh but we are born of the Spirit. 1 Peter 1:23 says, we are "..born again, not of corruptible seed but of the incorruptible, by the Word of God which lives and abides forever."

Now see Romans 8:1-3

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"

Please understand, New Testament Saints have the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Old Testament saints were under the law of sin and death.

In 1Peter 1:12, Peter made us know that the Old Testament Prophets saw the church era afar off desired earnestly to be like us. Infact our Spirit-life phenomenon was a thing of wonderous spectacle for angels:

"It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things."

The New Testament saints have a different place with God.

MaxInDHouse:
When the Catholic Church was persecuting their own members as in killing them what was the reason the Catholic Church gave back then?
I know you won't like to answer so i will do it myself.
It was on the ground of saying things contrary to what the church agreed upon in the Bible so if you're here calling a group Satanic for holding onto a teaching different from yours who are you representing, dark ages Catholics or true Christians?
Remember true Christians don't go about arguing with people who aren't worshiping with them once your teaching differs from that of the true Christians they will AVOID you! 2John 10-11

My dear, all these to what purpose?

No one is accusing you of contradicting church doctrine. You are contradicting scriptures. You know it. Stop being deceptive!


For example, the scriptures says "We shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed." You are saying "We shall all sleep and be changed." That's satanic. No argument about that.

No CULT has the same line of thought because a CULT only works for the interest of their members apart from that they don't think of engaging the public in discussions all they rely upon is the way their members stands to gain in all the goodies in the world.
True Christians work towards a better world in which peace will reign that's the reason why they have the same line of thought!

Do you see the difference?

All cults have the same line of thoughts. True Christians are not measured using this as a yardstick.

MaxInDHouse:
According to Jesus of Nazareth his disciples will be accused of Satanic teachings just like he was also accused:

“A student is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. It is enough for the student to become as his teacher, and the slave as his master. If people have called the master of the house Be·elʹze·bub, how much more those of his household?" Matthew 10:24-25
So we (JWs) aren't surprised that you and your cohorts whose beliefs contradicts are saying the same thing to us! Matthew 5:11-12


But they accused him of being Satanic not for miraculous works but his teachings shey? John 10:33
No wahala!

Yes, we are so accused. Over the years, the Catholic Church has persecuted Christians who showed them the light. That doesn't mean that real satanic teachings don't exist. A teaching that contradicts scripture is satanic. An organization that brings a new gospel contrary to what we've received is satanic. A group that hold the words of men in higher esteem than the word of God is satanic.

True Christians should have the same line of thought {John 17:22; 1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3} that's what will help them to have love among themselves {John 13:34-35} so if you people don't agree on teachings and doctrines then in what way are you followers of the man who said his disciples will stand out as a different group with unique teachings? John 17:14-16
Ọmọ just relax and enjoy the company of your friends JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ORGANIZATION is perfectly OK with our teachings and doctrines!

That isn't the yardstick for measuring true Christians. Even cults have the same lines of thought.

TimiRume:
Thanks. Beautifully said

I enjoyed the way you were rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

She shall be found in Jesus name.

MaxInDHouse:
The Jews know more about the scriptures than you if you stand before any of them quoting their books to justify the actions of Jesus of Nazareth they will just be laughing at you because they don't view him as a sane person! Mark 3:21; John 10:20

So the story is just repeating itself with the JWs having their unique teachings that's making all of you angry yet there's no two religions among you all having the same line of thought!

Satanic teachings that contradict scriptures are unique to you?


No one said He contradicted scriptures. Are you not ashamed of yourself to be defending contradiction by saying Jesus was accused of the sane? You couldn't bring any proof that Jesus was accused of such for God's sake and you still kept pushing this false narrative.

You don't know the meaning of that word "WE" because if you do you should think of how different religions with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines can claim another religion with their own teachings is contradicting their teachings whereas all of them are contradicting one another!

My dear, we are Christians. We're not religionists!

MaxInDHouse:
If they CRITICIZE him while they are custodians of the same scriptures he is quoting ọmọ that's CONTRACTIONS!

They criticized Him for claiming to be the Son of God and the Messiah. Did the scriptures describe how the Messiah would like like?

Your organization is blatantly contradicting scriptures and you're here spewing all these balderdash to justify that action?

I'm referring to you and your cohorts with whom you're criticizing an organization of like-minded believers whereas you people don't believe the same thing just as Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other Jewish Rabbis don't agree on the same line of thought yet all of them were criticizing Jesus and his disciples?

We're not a group. We're simply Christians. And what is JW doing better? Contradicting scriptures and claiming to be the only voice of God on earth while at it?

Baldwretch:
I have refrained from quoting the entire Hebrew passage you quoted. The origins of Jesus Christ is from the distinct past as I showed you from Daniel. Daniel saw Jesus. Even Daniel could not describe him, that is why he called him a son of man. And that is what the author of Hebrews is trying to tell the readers. I don't see how Jesus being greater than the angels means we are also greater than them. Jesus is from the everlasting past. Are we too? Jesus Has been in Heaven even before Daniel had this vision. Have we been in Heaven too? NO. But that is basically your argument.

You have to understand that Jesus is a resident of Heaven, one of Heaven's dwellers by the time Daniel sees his vision and way long before then. Like John puts it; In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.

I am comparing Heaven dwellers and earth dwellers, not Heaven dwellers and Heaven dwellers or earth-bound Heaven dwellers and Heaven dwellers. You need to understand the difference.

I still stand by my stance. By virtue of many metrics, the least of Heaven dwellers cannot be compared with the most righteous man that has ever lived or will ever live.

Angels have been blameless in all their ways, running errands for God for aeons, upholding the divine laws and government, agreeable to the divine will. Holding court with His Majesty. This is not a trite matter. A creature of yesterday wants to also collect candy when his ogas have not collected. Oya collect na.

TimiRume is right my brother. The scriptures are very clear about the position of man with God and with the angels.

Man being made in the image of God is not talking about physical imagery. Infact we lost that imagery in Eden, Christ came to restore the image back to us. The image of God is in our Spirit and not in our physical bodies. That's why "anyone who is baptized into Christ has put on Christ." (Galatians 3:27). And this Christ whom we have put on is "the brightness of his glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of his person."(Hebrews 1:3). Hence we all who are of faith resemble Jesus and by implication, we resemble God.

Romans 8:29-30

"For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be COMFORMED to the IMAGE OF HIS SON...that He may be the firstborn among many brethren."

1 John 3:2 says: "We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is."

Now, the new testament saints are quite different from the old testament saints. We are on a higher pedestal because while they're born of women, we're born of the Spirit, and are the brethren of Christ. Christ sits on the right hand of majesty on high representing the
Church. Christ is our representative on the throne in Heaven. We are on earth as His Body. Christ's Body is not lower than angels. The Body sits on the same throne as the Head. The Head and the Body are one. Have you ever seen a living being whose head sits on a throne while his body sits elsewhere? We believers possess so much authority we are unaware of.

Now look at the following scriptures:

Ephesians 1:18

"...the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above ALL principality and power and might and dominion, AND EVERY NAME THAT IS NAMED, NOT ONLY IN THIS WORLD BUT IN THE WORLD TO COME. And He put all things under His feet, AND GAVE HIM TO BE HEAD OVER ALL THINGS TO THE CHURCH, WHICH IS HIS BODY, the fullness of Him who fills all in all".

2 Timothy 2:12

If we endure, We shall also reign with Him..."

The Greek word 'krino' translated 'judge' in 1Cor. 6:3 also means 'rule' and 'govern'. The context of the word in that verse is best translated 'rule' because angels don't sin, hence there's nothing to judge about them. Some Bible translations translated the word as 'rule'.

1Cor. 6:3, International Standard Version:

"You know that we will rule angels, not to mention things in this life, don't you."

It's clear that God would be the one to judge fallen angels. The books of Jude and Revelation make that clear. This verse is clearly telling us that we shall bear rule over holy angels. Hebrews 1:14 says they're sent to serve us.

MaxInDHouse:
Contradiction!

Why did you cut off what I said the criticized Him about? Now, show proof of contradiction going by what I told you they criticized Him about - for calling Himself the Son of God and the Messiah. You want to manipulate.y words the way you do the scriptures?

Please who are the so called WE?
And how are they performing better than JWs?

Who were you referring to when you said 'That's what you feel."?

Baldwretch:
Thanks for checking in.

Please, understand and let me quote another translation to ease your understanding

Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Question: Who are them that are born of women? Humans. The human race. You cannot have it said more clearer. If you read the verse that precedes verse 11, Jesus was praising John, asking the people what kind of man they went into the wilderness to see.

Question: Who is he that is least in the kingdom of heaven? Since the hierarchy and order of divine beings is not known to me or to any of us, we would not speculate. It could after all be one of the 24 elders, an angel, or another of Heaven's inhabitants, but it can never be a human. The comparison and contrast is quite clear. He is comparing the most righteous human and Heaven dwellers.



I never said it was a comparison of angels with men. It was a comparison of the entire human race and the least of Heaven's dwellers. God calls himself the Lord of Host or the Lord of Heavens armies for a reason. There are more beings than we are aware of in Heaven. Some of higher rank and some, not so high. The cherubs, the seraphs, the commanders of Heavens armies, angels, angels of his presence, the 24 elders and many more. The comparison is between the least ranked, least righteous of these Heaven dwellers and the best, the finest of earth's inhabitant that has ever lived. That verse is very clear.



Wow, nice perspective, but God's kingdom in us is not a literally kingdom. It is the Holy Spirit. God's spirit in us, but even in old times, the prophets, anointed kings, and righteous men had God's spirit and that was long before Jesus came.

Paxonel. This is what Christ was saying:

1. John the Baptist is greater than all that are born of women, but he is least in comparison to those who are born of the Spirit.

2. John the Baptist is greater than all Old Testament saints but he is least in comparison to New Testament saints.

According to scriptures, New Testament saints are co-heirs with Christ who shall reign with Him forever and ever. Infact the apostles were promised 12 thrones on which they'll sit while judging the 12 tribes of Israel. Remember that even John was an Israelite.

Emusan:
The same Jesus that was given scripture to read in the synagogue.

If the Jews believe that Jesus do contradict the scriptures, would they have given Him scripture to read in the first place?

Well, keep giving him the Bible study, the reason he keeps coming back to discuss here despite all his claims is because he always grab one or two things from those he always accuses as enemies of God.

Hmmmm.