₦airaland Forum

there is nothing hypocritical about it. simply stating facts. Muslims believe in the bible as the true word of God, some muslims believe that the bible has been manipulated and its original revelation tampered with to suit certain political situations. Hence the many different interpretations/versions of the bible i.e: king James bible etc. Muslims call Jesus the prophet Isa, many muslims are called Isa. Muslims don't believe that Jesus is the son of God, thats the main dogmatic variance between the two sister faiths. Apart from that, Muslims and Christians beliefs are at the very least 70% compatible and identical i.e: the story of creationism, Noah's Ark, Solomon, David, Moses are all pretty much identical. This is why the trio, Islam, Christianity and Judaism are called the Abrahimic faiths coz they are the same thing with some differences in doctrine and practice.
If a muslim burns the bible then he's automatically an infidel or unbeliever because he has committed an abominable act. Muslims are taught about Jesus and his mother Mary and about his miracle birth. In the Quran, there is an entire verse dedicated to Mary called suratul Maryam, look up the translation and read it. I think problems come from ignorance (not realizing that you're following the same God) or focusing on the little differences instead if the similarities (thats human nature) Muslims believe that Prophet Muhammad is the seal of the holy prophets who brought the last book, prior to him, it was Jesus, moses with books like injeel, taurat, zabur etc.

how can muslims burn the bible when they clearly believe it to be the word of God. In Islam, there are 5 revered books of God and furthermore, Islam accepts Jesus, Moses, Abraham etc as prophets and messengers of God who brought the word of God to forewarn and guide people. So Muslims cannot burn the bible.

chyz:
This is great.I think every Igbo feels atleast a little bit nigerian now.Once the 2nd bridge is built its a rap. Also, i believe if IBB becomes president the new Army chief will be removed in less than a year to give the north back dominant power.

So Jonathan now wants to strategically take power away from the north. hmmm

Kobojunkie:
A similar "pastor" burned bibles last year and the same media seemed to completely IGNORE that act. Why is this pastor to blame for the attention his act garnered? Think about it for a minute!

But the potential consequences of this man's burning stunt would be too far reaching for the media not to be all over it. Every one knows that when it comes to muslims, you dont mess with our religion!

The leader of a small Florida church that espouses anti-Islam philosophy says he is canceling plans to burn copies of the Quran on Sept. 11.

Pastor Terry Jones claimed Thursday that he decided to cancel his protest because the leader of a planned Islamic Center near Ground Zero has agreed to move its controversial location.

However, Imam Rauf, the leader of the proposed center did not make a deal and has never talked to Pastor Terry Jones, Park51 officials tell Huffington Post, adding that they are open to all solutions and that the proposed Islamic cultural center is open to dialogue and reconciliation with the community in lower Manhattan.

Jones' plans to burn Islam's holiest text Saturday sparked an international outcry.

President Barack Obama, the top U.S. general in Afghanistan and several Christian leaders had urged Jones to reconsider his plans. They said his actions would endanger U.S. soldiers and provide a strong recruitment tool for Islamic extremists. Jones' protest also drew criticism from religious and political leaders from across the Muslim world.

He was never going to do it, he just wanted publicity but he never had the liver to actually do it since its not as if he is utterly insane.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39074573/ns/politics-white_house

THE "BURN THE KORAN DAY" HAS BEEN CANCELED BY PASTOR TERRY JONES. SAYS HE CANCELED IT BECAUSE THE IMAM OF THE GROUND ZERO PROPOSED MOSQUE AGREED TO MOVE THE LOCATION. I KNEW HE WASN'T GOING TO DO IT, HOW CAN HE HAVE THAT KIND OF LIVER? IMPOSSIBLE PLUS HE JUST WANTED THE PUBLICITY BUT HE COULD NEVER ACTUALLY DO IT. NEVER.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39074573/ns/politics-white_house

Kabikala:
When you do the crime, be prepared to do the time.
Al-Mustapha was part of the Abacha killer squad and he deserves whatever fate befalls him. Many of his victims did not even have the opportunity of  a trial before they were brutally murdered.

Nobody has been able to prove that he killed anybody, Lagos prosecutors have been trying to prove his guilt for over ten years and have been unable to. If thats the case, they cannot prove he killed a single soul and there are no witnesses then let him go. You have to put yourself in his shoes. They cannot prove him guilty of the crimes they charged him with and if they cant do this after 10 years then it means they have no evidence that he did those things. LET HIM GO, what if someone accused you of something but couldn't prove it yet locked you up for 12 years. Anybody can accuse anybody of a crime, i can say you're a murderer but in a civilized setting, you have to prove it. Unless you want a jungle society which is totally devoid of law and justice.

apocalypse:
There should be no respite for a murderer , he should be executed. He who kills by the sword shall die by the sword.

have you been able to prove he murdered anybody?? if not, let him go because his continued detention is illegal since he's not serving a sentence.

This beaf guy, you're miserable it seems not to mention ignorant and biased. The only thing you spew is satanic evil and divisiveness!! Get a life oh and believe it or not, your posts and comments will not influence or affect the outcome of a single election in Nigeria so continue wasting your time saying senseless bigoted rubbish.

Beaf:
Whatever you call it. A bad marriage is not worth keeping, especially when a partner is bullying. Threats of all flavours are erupting from the North at a quiet South. In my opinion, its just best to face those threads squarely.
If anyone thinks God has given them power, maybe its best for them to go searching for the god that is deceiving them.

If you think there is anything to be divided apart from "everybody go your papa land," then you are very sadly mistaken. If you trump card is that Igbo's and other groups will leave, why is that a bad thing? Why hold people prisoner in an unfitting relationship just to maintain power from "God" with the Hausa - Fulani?

You didn't even address the points i brought up. How easy or practical do you think dividing a country like Nigeria would be? If you think its as easy as "everybody go your papa land" then you're the one thats miserably mistaken. You don't know a thing about the nation-state. Nigeria is more complex and intertwined than you think. I'm not gonna bother making any more points because it seems you're a bit clueless. You need to make some Hausa friends honestly. Your bias is overwhelming and anyone can see that you lack exposure.
The "hausa-fulani" are not saying its their right to rule Nigeria but that the zoning agreement agreed to by stake holders must be upheld. Jonathan knows he is a product of zoning, how can he now decide to ignore a policy that is solely responsible for him getting to the presidency in the first place? is that even ethical?

I know he thinks he's young and that if he steps down then his political career is finished since you can't vie for any other political office after having been president except if its the same president that he vies for in future. But you cant short change an entire region of a country after an agreement has been made just because of your personal ambition. An agreement is an agreement, the day you rescind on an agreement is the day you turn into a crook. Jonathan should aspire to be a statesman not a crook.

You people especially beaf amaze me. You talk like you're detached from reality. Beaf, I took you for an intelligent individual until this post of yours. How hard is getting a divorce from a wife you've been married to for 20 years? especially when you're required by law to share assets as in the U.S? Now, this is only a marriage of two individuals only and it usually has to drag on in court.

Now, how hard do you think it would be to divorce/divide a country that has been together since 1914 and self ruled for 50 years. How do you go about sharing the assets? so called property of the federal government! Can you divide without a bloody war? if there is a bloody war, will it make you happy? In short, the complications involved in dividing a country are too much that no sensible leader in this day and age would want to get himself into such a mess. Its really messy business. Nigeria is like a catholic marriage, it may not be a happy one but it must stay intact. Find ways to live together instead, like making agreements and honoring them i:e. power rotation.

If you divide Nigeria on the basis of ethnic and religious sentiment, how many parts will she be divided into If you manage to say two, then pls tell me if the south is a monolithic group. What stops the Igbos from further cessation and breaking into smaller units? Look, the world is uniting, see EU but you are shouting for a break up, doesn't that seem funny to you? Its clear to me that you guys scarcely have friends who are from the north otherwise, you wouldn't have this ridiculous world view. Socialize with people from other parts of the country, let me call my yoruba friend self.

seanet02:
sincerely speaking, i dont belief the North can threaten to SECEDE, if they try it

  ANOTHER HUNGER STRICKEN CHAD AND NIGER REPUBLIC WILL BE CREATED

Which Chad, the oil producing Chad? or the largest uranium exporter of the world, Niger Have you ever been to these countries?? My guess is you haven't otherwise you wouldn't say this, People have to understand not to always trust images of countries in the News, after all, how is your own Nigeria portrayed in the int'l media you'd think all Nigerians are diseased church mice. Furthermore, when they show you a country in civil war, don't shallowly assume that that country has not made progress 20 years later. keep up with current events to save yourself from this type of embarrassment. I used to be like you until I had the opportunity of visiting Sudan and realized that it was better than Nigeria. But prior to me going, people were telling me all sorts of nasty things about the country.

seanet02:
and what happens when you Northerners were passing the baton from one mallam to one another spending over 38 years when the south has just spent over 12 years. You are too SELFISH

This is a democratic dispensation and a new era not a series of military juntas. Neither northerners nor southerners gained much from the juntas. 1999 was meant to be a fresh start for the Nigerian project. This is why the north which was in a position of relative advantage decided to relinquish power to the south, a gesture of renewed fraternity. If the north was truly "SELFISH" then Abdulsalam would have hung on to power and eventually handed over to a northern civilian. That would've been "selfish"

But you are avoiding the issue at hand, the "AGREEMENT" on zoning, should it be followed or do we go with breaching agreements and building mutual suspicion in our democratic 4th republic simple question. There's an agreement cast in cold print in the PDP constitution, what message are you giving if you discard of agreements half way into them? and you refuse to follow your own written down rules??

I think the problem is simple, the PDP made a provision for zoning in their constitution, if they are gentlemen then why won't they honor agreements? This is the 4th republic and the PDP being the party that is likely to determine the winner of presidential elections for the next 20 years should not start off Nigeria's "democratic" 4th republic with deceit. The agreement is clear, that "political offices shall rotate among the zones" The north is not saying that they want to rule indefinitely, but till 2015 only which will be approximately the 8 years the north is entitled to under the zoning arrangement. Obasanjo did his 8 years. Now its the north. The north didn't say that Jonathan (who is a product of zoning) should step down after Yar'adua's death to enable a northerner (Yayale) finish out Yar'adua/north slot. The north was politically mature and decided to allow the then VP to ascend to the presidency. Now the north is saying they refuse to be short changed.

Simple, if you want to discard of the agreement, then wait till it fully rotates and get together as a party and do away with the agreement, you don't rescind on agreements half way through it. Thats not fair, it goes against common courtesy. The 4th republic was supposed to be the birth of a New nation, new ideals, had the north wanted (practically speaking) they would have held on to power given their dominance in the military and security apparatus of the nation (the most important institutions in maintaining power) But the north yielded and allowed Obasanjo 8 years (which he used to dismantle northern interests particularly in banking) So my brothers and sisters, please let common courtesy prevail, abide by the pre-existing zoning agreement. Discard of it after everybody has done their fair share.

I think the problem is simple, the PDP made a provision for zoning in their constitution, if they are gentlemen then why won't they honor agreements? This is the 4th republic and the PDP being the party that is likely to determine the winner of presidential elections for the next 20 years should not start off Nigeria's "democratic" 4th republic with deceit. The agreement is clear, that "political offices shall rotate among the zones" The north is not saying that they want to rule indefinitely, but till 2015 only which will be approximately the 8 years the north is entitled to under the zoning arrangement. Obasanjo did his 8 years. Now its the north. The north didn't say that Jonathan (who is a product of zoning) should step down after Yar'adua's death to enable a northerner (Yayale) finish out Yar'adua/north slot. The north was politically mature and decided to allow the then VP to ascend to the presidency. Now the north is saying they refuse to be short changed.

Simple, if you want to discard of the agreement, then wait till it fully rotates and get together as a party and do away with the agreement, you don't rescind on agreements half way through it. Thats not fair, it goes against common courtesy. The 4th republic was supposed to be the birth of a New nation, new ideals, had the north wanted (practically speaking) they would have held on to power given their dominance in the military and security apparatus of the nation (the most important institutions in maintaining power) But the north yielded and allowed Obasanjo 8 years (which he used to dismantle northern interests particularly in banking) So my brothers and sisters, please let common courtesy prevail, abide by the pre-existing zoning agreement. Discard of it after everybody has done their fair share.

youngmonie:
The establishment of new Universities and Polytechnics.
The movement of Federal Capital from Lagos to Abuja.
.The reorganization of the Nigeria Police into seven Zonal Operation Areas.
The unemployment grant to States for agricultural programmes and vocational skills.
.Establishment of Mass Mobilization for Self-Reliance Social Justice and Economic Recovery (MAMSER).
A 46-member Panel to review the 1979 Constitution. .The creation of Akwa Ibom, Katsina, Abia, Anambra, Delta, Jigawa, Kebbi, Kogi, Osun, Yobe and Taraba States and over 136 new Local Government Areas with take off grants.
Direct funding of Local Government Areas from the Federal Government to make them autonomous.
National Agricultural Land Development Authority (NALDA).
. National Orientation Agency (NOA) formerly known as the ‘‘Mass Mobilization for Self-Reliance Social Justice and Economic Recovery’’ (MAMSER).
. National Directorate of Employment (NDE).
Federal Environment Protection Agency (FEPA).
. Lagos Third Mainland Bridge.
. Federal Urban Mass Transit programme. . The 1991 National Population Census (NPC).
. National Women Commission. . The Directorate of Food, Roads and Rural Infrastructure (DIFRRI).
. Federal Road Safety Corps (FRSC).
. National Health Insurance Scheme (NHIS).
. National Housing Fund.
. Commission of the Onne Fertilizer Plant in Rivers State.
. The 260 million dollars Petrol Chemical Plant in Kaduna.
.  NNPC Escravos- Lagos Gas Pipeline at Egbin,
. National Electoral Commission (. Elesa Eleme Refinery in River State.
Children Trust Fund.
. Resumed diplomatic relations with Israel
Central Bank Autonomy Decree, . Others were: NAFDAC; Ecomog; Reduction of import duties on newsprint, etc. I

This may not make sense to u , buh take a look at how this country is now compareds to what it was den,  Ibbs regime was far better than dat of objs regimee, we din have all dis 9je delta issues,  standard of living was much better den than now

Creating giant bureaucracy is NOT an achievement. Achievements should be judged by how well those government agencies impacted the lives of ordinary Nigerians. To the best of my knowledge, Nigerians gained little from IBB's big government. It actually had a devastating effect on the Nigerian economy, how can the public sector be responsible for nearly 65% of all employment in that country?? Private sector specifically small and medium scale businesses are supposed to be the main sources of employment in a country.
Anyone can use decrees and establish agencies to either siphon off public money or positively impact the lives of your citizenry. Wonder why IBB falls?

spearman:
For our democracy to advance we have to encourage candidates who run on vital principles against great odds even with little or no chance of winning. The lack of such is responsible for the opportunism which we mistake for participatory democracy. It cannot always be about winning.

Spot on!

Aigbofa:
Look Gadogado, only 1 percent of Americans control about 40% of all privately held wealth in the U.S. Anyone can manipulate this simple statistic to make a phony graph, telling you why the remaining 99% are not so smart.
Your arguement is baseless.

The average American earns about $35,000 annually. The country has so much money that 1% controlling 40% of collective wealth is only natural. But I see your point and I think its valid. But you should realize that Sub Saharan African's average income is not more than $5000. Its likely that there are many economic factors such as unfair trade that cause this wealth gap. But consider south Africa, it accounts for 40% of Africa's economy, until 1994, it was run by white "dutch" people. So this is what I would like to understand.

bgees:
Stop trying to validate the results with your idiocy. when was it conducted and how was it conducted?!!

Dont get emotional, dont attack me, attack the authors of the research that concluded sub saharan Africans have the lowest IQ in the world and by extention are the least productive hence the poorest. I'm giving you published research. Don't get angry! If you dont think the charts are valid, then state your reasons for its invalidity, if you think the concept of IQ and race is flawed, kindly give reasons for why you think so and support the reasons!! Very simple!

Another Source, just read the book "IQ and the wealth of nations"

I think if an IQ test suggests you have a low IQ (lower than everybody else) you'll naturally attack the test itself and claim its faulty!

SO physicsQED, what is your opinion on this chart, notice the obvious average IQ test scores' relationship to standard of living (productivity allows for a higher living standard)

I refuse to address you, its clear you dont know anything!!! you're just ignorant.

ola olabiy:
you may be right.  we know we(blacks) don't YET have the technological advancement of whites.
but your shuwa arab people may have to face up to the reality of your inferiority to whites. may be you need to read about how egypt on one hand and algeria/morocco/tunisia were  shared by british and french people.


i also don't know any meaningful invention pioneered by arabs.

yeye boy

Dont embarrass yourself, Arabs created algebra, were pioneers of astronomy and modern medicine, through their invasion and occupation of Europe (Iberian Peninsula- Spain and potrugal and southern italy) they ushered the western world into what is now known as the renaissance. They ruled Europe for 700 years. Research Cordoba and Andalusia. Again dont embarrass yourself.

someones been reading 'germs, guns and steel' and apparently is a die hard adherent of liberal "excuses" for black African failure to independently develop at significant levels. I don't have the time to attack each of your points but know that these are things I've already read (long ago), believed and later on dispelled.

@tpiah
Im not on here for a race war, just an unemotional discussion, Im trying to make you accept the harsh reality of your condition.

^^^
you seem bitter, you see you're diverging, attempting to change the topic of discussion to genetics and black race this and that. The fact that black Africans are closely genetically related is indisputable, Ok in the interest of appeasing you, lets dump the term "black race" seeing that it bothers you so much. I'll agree for the sake of argument that there is no such thing. Instead, I'll simply say "dark skinned people from the African continent" are the least intelligent people in the world. Now what??
Wonder why you're fighting so hard against the existence of race I guarantee you'd be championing a "black race" if it were at the top of the world's power hierarchy as opposed to the very bottom as is the present case. Either way, don't be too emotional, that is an African feature thats hurts Africans. Try being logical, we're here or at least I am to learn and debate constructively not engage in over heated emotion-laden arguments, thats a little immature in my opinion. We can always agree to disagree.
My question is simple, is "black" lack of intellectual capacity responsible for their current predicament i.e- lack of development, if it isn't, then what is responsible. Im not asking whether you're genetically closer to a Frenchman than your neighboring Igala or Idoma.

Beaf:
Aahh! The sound of a deflated Arab!

correction: Afro-arab

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L1_(mtDNA)

Take a look, pls, lets talk science not pointless pictures, these people came out of africa 20,000 years ago!! FACT

you clearly dont know much about anthropology, what haplogroup are they in as far as Mt DNA and also Y DNA genetic markers

ChinenyeN:
The wheel (or lack thereof) is not a measure of intellectual capacity or enlightenment. Societies in the western hemisphere (the Inca & Maya for example) reached high levels of societal sophistication, yet there is no evidence that the use of the wheel existed among them. I understand where you're getting at though. The idea of a wheel seems rather simple. So simple, in fact, that one would think that any society would have had to have developed it once it reached some level of sophistication, but such is not the case. In short, the wheel is actually not an obvious invention, and similarly to writing, it is thought to have independently developed in only Mesopotamia (and possibly China, depending).

One other thing to look at is geography (the same thing that affected cultural diffusion of ideas). Africa, including the Sahara (at least, in the past) was thickly forested, as opposed to Europe and Asia, which are characteristically plains and arid/desert-like, respectively (oversimplified, I know, but still largely true). The wheel would have been too impractical for Africa, in comparison to Europe and Asia, where the wheel is a rather practical invention.   

Lastly, no standards exist for technological/societal advancement. There are no guidelines of how and at what point societies should evolve and progress.

So, although societies can be judged by their overall advancement, it really speaks little for their intellectual capacity.
This here is more inline with the argument of how (and whether or not) slavery and colonization left Africa worse off.

I also see your point, however i think its necessary to make some demarcations and distinctions. The wheel is the mother of ll invention, technology started by developing the concept of the wheel. Now that thats out of the way, if the Inca or Maya didn't have a practical need for the wheel (assuming) then that explains the your supposed argument that they didn't actually use a wheel at any point in history (subject to verification) However, they were able to develop concepts that demonstrated an infusion of science into their thinking and methods, these concepts as well as the actual end result of the concepts (products) did prove to be of practical use for them and did supplement some of the hardships they faced. so here I've established two important points, a) infusion of science into their concepts (clear demonstration of intellectual ability) b) The need and desire to better their condition. These points more than make up for their abomination of not developing a wheel  
The African however has not demonstrated any infusion of science into anything he ever did and he also has not shown a desire and need to better his condition at any point in time (give me an african invention that actually made their condition better) Ok I suppose bronze casting is party scientific but it was done not for practical self help reasons but for religious voodoo worship to pillow his natural inclination to superstition.
I also disagree with you that Africa was entirely a thick green forest, some parts yes but not the whole continent. But when it comes to scientific invention, the whole continent is found wanting irrespective of environmental conditions. This contravenes your argument.

Onlytruth:
Oh I understand your position very well. The people you are debating just don't get it. 

I was thinking exactly the same thing just before you said it.

When characters like gadogado come here to yarn dust, I wonder whether they have actually sat down to look carefully at how this world has evolved through time.

It all began in Africa, and I can best my last dollar that it will end in Africa.

And while we are at it, Africans always influenced the history of this world, one way or another.  I won't say more than that.

Why don't you focus on the argument being made and intellectually argue a point as opposed to attacking my personality and "people like me" we're not arguing about THEORIES or evolution which are controversial to say the least. we're talking about the AFRICAN's INABILITY TO BUILD A STABLE AND PROSPEROUS SOCIETY/ENLIGHTENED CIVILIZATION on his own (without Arabs and Europeans) and whether this is caused by a lack of intellectual capacity as implied by Friedman (The wheel hadn't been invented in parts of Africa by the 19th century) Take your theories of evolution elsewhere.